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What if your growth path wasn't adding more clients, but working fewer, higher-quality roles with people who genuinely value your service?
Allicia Birch, founder of 4tify Recruitment, built a six-figure recruitment firm in her first year — without cold calls, without compromising on fees, and without chasing every job. Her success came down to discipline: working to a structured 12-hour day in 15-minute blocks, building a reputation-based BD strategy, and walking away from bad-fit clients.
You'll hear how she transformed underperformance into consistent high billings, created multi-division revenue from single clients, and productised her approach to business development — including how she sells high-ticket projects, runs invite-only roundtables, and uses market intelligence to position herself as a trusted partner, not just a vendor.
4tify is based in Manchester and specializes in construction industry recruitment. After 8 years in the industry, Allicia has become a leading voice in the residential new build market.
Episode Highlights
[03:20] How she struggled during the first three years with plenty of lessons
[14:11] Breakdown to Breakthrough - turning things around from 250k to 350k billings
[20:25] What inspired the launch of 4tify
[26:10] Key success factors in the first 12 months of business
[35:19] Her idea of a cold call - how she does BD without 'cold calling'
[44:26] Best practices on being organized and creating a Day Plan
[48:30] How market intelligence helps provide custom-fit solutions to clients
[58:21] The round-table engagement strategy
[1:03:04] What's next for the team
Key Takeaways
Training Makes the Difference: Her first three years brought zero earnings until proper training at Anderson James turned everything around. A breakthrough coaching session helped her jump from struggling to billing £250,000–£350,000 per year.
Client Selection Strategy: "If you're trying to beat me down to 10%, I'm not your recruiter. I don't get out of bed for that." She only works with clients who respect her values, turning down low-fee roles and walking away from companies that don't align.
Daily Structure:
Speaks to 30 people per day (150 per week) - all warm calls through referrals Plans the day in 15-minute increments the night before at 9 PM Works closest to money first: live processes, then candidates, then client development Uses Excel spreadsheets with checkboxes and color coordination
Market Intelligence: Uses reputational analysis to provide custom-fit solutions to each client.
Her genuine, relationship-first approach thrives on meaningful partnerships – no cold calling, just honest conversations and deep understanding of what makes great teams work.
About Allicia Birch
Allicia Birch is the Managing Director of 4tify, a specialist recruitment company with 8 years in the industry, though it didn't start easily. The first three years brought zero earnings, but plenty of lessons. Once things clicked, she went on to consistently break records year after year, becoming a leading voice in the residential new build market.
Her genuine, relationship-first approach thrives on meaningful partnerships – no cold calling, just honest conversations and deep understanding of what makes great teams work. With operations expanding in both the UK and US, she's on a mission to connect market leaders to the market.
Connect with Mark Whitby
Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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How do you grow a high-margin recruitment business without hiring a big team—or chasing every lead? And what happens when you go all-in on yourself, right before a global pandemic?
In this episode, I’m joined by Jordana Matsos, founder of Higher Equity, who shares how she launched a solo sales recruitment agency with no prior agency experience—and grew it into a $500K+ business by being radically transparent, highly organized, and boldly direct.
We discuss why blunt messaging often works better than polished sales talk, how Jordana systematized her entire operation to run lean, and the lessons she learned after scaling too quickly. She also shares how she created an online academy for job seekers, turning inbound candidate traffic into an additional revenue stream.
Episode Highlights:
[03:43] From sales leader to recruiter: Jordana’s career pivot
[11:16] Building the business: pricing, tools, and tech stack
[14:28] Leveraging video and short-form content to attract talent
[21:58] What went wrong when she scaled too fast
[28:45] Creating the HireQuity Academy to serve job seekers
[40:46] SOPs and templates that saved time and ensured consistency
[45:48] Business development: blunt pitches, smart triggers, and warm referrals
[58:30] Why transparency builds trust with both clients and candidates
Blunt Messaging That Converts
Jordana’s “blunt honesty” approach is one of her biggest differentiators. She shares full job details upfront—company name, comp, and expectations—which earns her 55–70% candidate response rates. For clients, her pitch deck goes out in the first message, including fee structure and recent placements, eliminating unnecessary back-and-forth and building immediate trust.
Systematizing Solo Success
Coming from a corporate sales background, Jordana knew she had to create repeatable, efficient processes. She templatized everything—from client onboarding to follow-ups and outreach. Tools like Google Sheets, Taplio, Otter.ai, and Aspect helped her automate and scale as a solo operator.
Lessons from Scaling Too Fast
After a strong first year billing nearly $300K solo, Jordana hired a full-time recruiter, BD rep, and sourcer. But expenses skyrocketed, margins plummeted to 20%, and client relationships suffered. She course-corrected by downsizing, letting go of low-margin clients, and doubling down on her niche—bringing her gross margins back to 60%+.
Creating a Revenue Stream with Purpose
Unable to serve every candidate personally, Jordana built the HireQuity Academy—an online course that gives job seekers an inside look at how recruiters think. With templates, interview prep, and real-world advice, it helps candidates stand out—and gives Jordana an additional income stream without trading time for money.
About Jordana Matsos
Jordana spent 15 years leading sales teams before founding Higher Equity in 2021. She now helps companies hire high-performing sales talent while running the HireQuity Academy to support job seekers.
Tools & Resources Mentioned:
Taplio | Otter.ai | Aspect | Cliff AI – now part of Quantive.
Connect with Jordana:
LinkedIn | Instagram | YouTube | HireQuity Academy | HireQuity Recruitment
Connect with Mark Whitby:
Free 30-Minute Strategy Call | LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter and leave a review if you found value in this episode! -
Saknas det avsnitt?
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What’s the most innovative way to scale a recruitment firm—especially in a fast-changing, competitive market?
For Stuart Barnes, Co-Founder and Managing Director of Navitas Recruitment Group, the answer was combining quick-turn perm revenue with recurring contract income. That dual strategy helped Navitas grow from zero to over £2.6M in net fee income within just two years.
In this episode, Stuart shares the real story behind launching a VC-backed recruitment firm in the renewable energy sector. He opens up about the early pressure, the emotional rollercoaster, and the systems that made rapid growth possible—from his blended revenue model to their structured approach to business development.
You’ll also hear how Stuart returned to hands-on billing after years in leadership, personally generating over £100k in placements while laying the foundation for a high-performance culture.
If you're a recruitment founder or team leader looking for real-world strategies that scale, this episode is packed with insights you can put into action.
Episode Highlights:
[01:43] How Stuart’s international experience shaped his mindset as a founder
[06:22] From startup to £2.6M: how Navitas scaled in under 3 years
[10:22] Why he chose renewables and what made it the right niche
[13:41] Inside their aggressive 5-year growth plan
[18:00] The “key ingredients” that powered their rapid start
[29:24] Why BD should never stop—and how Navitas approaches it
[37:57] The Channels they use for BD (and how Teams invites help book meetings)
[46:09] Team structure and growth philosophy
[53:40] Lessons from scaling too fast
[55:52] Why KPIs should be meaningful, not just numbers
[1:02:00] What’s next: expansion, strategy shifts, and Austin plans
Key Takeaways:
✅ Balanced revenue model – Contract = recurring cash flow. Perm = speed. Together = sustainable growth.
✅ Structured BD system – The “3 buckets, 300 hiring managers, 1 hour daily” method that drives consistency.
✅ Hands-on leadership – Stuart led by example, returning to billing and setting the tone for scale.
Connect with Stuart:
🔗 Stuart Barnes on LinkedIn
🌐 Navitas Recruitment Group
People and Resources Mentioned
Paul Taffe on LinkedIn
Connect with Mark Whitby
Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter -
What if you could place nearly every candidate you represent—and do it at premium fees, without racing to the bottom?
In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Mark Whitby is joined by Lysha Holmes, founder of QUI Recruitment and host of The Recruiters Recruitment Podcast. With over 20 years in Rec2Rec, Lysha shares how she’s built a values-led, inbound-only business with zero cold calling.
You’ll discover:
Why Lysha insists on exclusive candidate representation
How she consistently achieves a 1.15:1 interview-to-placement ratio
The values behind QUI: Quality, Urgency, and Integrity
Her approach to relationship-driven BD and building through referrals
How sobriety and wellbeing became business superpowers
Whether you're a recruitment agency owner or solo operator, this episode is a playbook for building a more sustainable, high-margin, and meaningful business.
Episode Highlights
[00:45] Why Lysha rejects cold calls and how she builds BD differently
[02:32] Her journey from failing A-levels to founding QUI Recruitment
[13:24] Building a solo business while raising children
[16:18] How she kept placing during maternity leave
[17:19] Why exclusivity is non-negotiable for candidate control
[24:27] Origin of QUI’s core values and how they shape every decision
[24:56] A 1.15 placement ratio—how it’s done
[26:38] The win-win case for exclusive representation
[34:01] Attracting premium clients with consistency and care
[38:25] BD through conversations, not spam
[46:11] Using referrals and warm intros to win business
[50:54] What clients are actually using AI for (hint: it’s not automation)
[59:03] How sobriety transformed her leadership and mindset
[01:04:18] Going sugar-free and protecting health as a growth strategy
💡 Key Takeaways
Candidate Exclusivity Works
Lysha explains how exclusivity leads to calmer processes, stronger placements, and better outcomes for all parties. She makes the case for exclusivity as a differentiator that drives results and reduces risk.
1.15:1 Interview-to-Placement Ratio
By focusing on quality and alignment, Lysha’s ratios are among the best in the industry. Candidates are carefully vetted, and most are introduced to just one or two clients.
Personal Brand + Warm BD = Sustainable Growth
QUI Recruitment runs 100% on inbound business via referrals, podcasting, and LinkedIn presence. Lysha treats every interaction as business development and never spams.
👤 About Lysha Holmes
Lysha began her career in sales and marketing, then transitioned into recruitment in 1998. After working with top agencies and discovering Rec2Rec, she founded QUI Recruitment in 2005. She is also the host of The Recruiters Recruitment Podcast, a mental health advocate, and a leader in the Women in Recruitment Leadership movement.
🔗 Connect with Lysha
LinkedIn: Lysha Holmes
Website: QUI Recruitment
Connect with Mark Whitby
Free 30-Minute Strategy Call
LinkedIn: Mark Whitby
Instagram: @recruitmentcoach
X: @MarkWhitby
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter for weekly interviews with top-performing recruitment agency owners and thought leaders. -
Hiring great recruiters should be second nature for recruitment business owners—after all, it's what we do for clients daily. But when it comes to growing your own team, the stakes are higher, the risks are real, and the margin for error is razor-thin.
In today’s episode, we dive into what it really takes to attract, hire, and retain high-performing recruiters—especially in a competitive market where top talent has options.
You’ll hear the inside story of how one firm scaled from 7 to 50 people and 7X’d its revenue in just five years—not by chance but by building a values-driven hiring and retention strategy.
Whether you're hiring your first or your fiftieth recruiter, this episode will give you the mindset, methods, and metrics to do it right.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[03:21] From psychology to recruitment - Andy shares how he started his recruitment career, leading to the foundation of Brainworks.
[07:34] How making and learning from many mistakes are key to Andy’s success.
[10:20] Factors that lead to growth and scaling.
[20:05] What can help you decide when considering investing in a high-compensation recruiter joining your team?
[26:17] Andy reveals their hiring process when recruiting a recruiter.
[31:32] How to retain top recruitment talent.
[35:49] Fostering a collaborative and supportive culture - Andy elaborates on their specific action points.
[43:50] Thoughts on remote work and performance management.
[48:34] What the next five years look like for Brainworks.
[50:53] Andy shares their tech stack that paid off.
Andy Miller Bio and Contact Info
Andy Miller started BrainWorks in 1991 and continues to lead the Consumer Products practice, placing talent ranging from mid level to general management and presidents, with an eye for impacting the business regardless of the level or function. Andy’s client roster ranges from large Fortune 50 companies to smaller entrepreneurial organizations that are looking to grow and believe that finding the right talent makes a difference.
Andy received a Master’s degree in Counseling Psychology and spent 3 years in social services settings. After transitioning to business, Andy spent 10 years in the Telecommunications field, winning numerous sales awards including 5 consecutive years in the Gold Club and Salesman of the Year in 1987 and 1988. His passion and experience from competitive sports in addition to his psychology background provides a unique blend of competitiveness and people skills which has influenced how he works with both clients and candidates. This background is the basis of his philosophy -- to help clients win the competitive wars for talent by assessing, training and developing people towards greater productivity.
Andy on LinkedIn
Brainworks website link
DRM Foundation
Pinnacle Society
Connect with Mark Whitby
Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter -
If you're struggling to hire high-performing recruiters across multiple cities or regions, the issue might not be your comp plan—it’s your value proposition. In this episode, I sit down with Lisa Dixon of FIFTEEN WEST to unpack a strategy that more recruitment agency owners need to use: customizing your EVP (Employee Value Proposition) based on location.
Lisa shares hard-won insights from helping dozens of UK recruitment firms expand into the U.S. market. She reveals what actually moves the needle when it comes to attracting top talent, from wellness perks in New York to parking subsidies in Houston.
If you want to build a high-performing team across multiple geographies, this episode is a must-listen.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[03:25] Lisa shares how they founded FIFTEEN WEST.
[09:45] Discussion on strategies for US Market entry.
[18:59] Compensation differences and challenges between the UK & US recruitment markets.
[29:59] An Attractive employee value proposition to attract the best talent.
[32:57] Discussion on tech stack and offshoring certain delivery functions as an option for recruitment companies.
[37:55] How 11 Investments recently acquired FIFTEEN WEST.
[46:27] Aha moments: Key learnings from working with a bigger business that has been further in the journey.
Strategies When Expanding to the US Market
As a rec-to-rec firm, FIFTEEN WEST initially focused on helping UK-headquartered businesses to expand to America. They have eventually moved to the US as a strategic effort to become an embedded recruitment partner across their clients’ global operations. Doing so is not easy, so I wanted to pick the strategies that Lisa and her team applied when transitioning to the US market. If you are also planning to establishing an office physically within the US, below are the things that Lisa learned that you may want to keep in mind:
Leadership Deployment: One proven method was sending a founder or long-tenured employee to launch the U.S. office, ensuring the company’s DNA and values were transplanted effectively. This model was described as the most successful—helping set culture, hire locally, and scale faster.
Tailored Unique Value Proposition: One main differences that Lisa pointed out is the commission and base salary structure. To get the best recruiters and talents, they adapted their commission structures and incentives for the U.S. market, realizing early on that what worked in the UK didn’t translate directly.
Market Culture Adaptation: Lisa recognized that the U.S. market is more pragmatic and transactional—clients care less about past success and more about current candidates delivery.
Overall, Lisa emphasized cultural embedding, leadership presence, and operational agility to navigate the distinct dynamics of the American recruitment market. -
Why do most recruitment companies stall at 10 to 20 people, while others scale to 100+ across continents? In this episode, you’ll hear directly from someone who’s done it.
STR Group is a family of specialist recruitment brands focused on STEM sectors. As co-founder, Clive Hutchings has spent over two decades growing the business to more than 120 staff across the UK, Europe, and the US—all while staying profitable, adaptable, and values-driven.
In this interview, Clive breaks down what it really takes to build a multi-brand, international recruitment group, the leadership philosophy behind STR’s culture, and the gritty truths behind scaling a business beyond yourself.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[3:05] The early days: how Clive started in recruitment and his story of practicing his pitch in front of a mirror in the office.
[11:37] The operational and leadership shifts needed to grow from 10 to 100+ employees
[19:19] Why many recruitment founders plateau—and how to avoid it
[21:09] Discussion on the best approach to train a new recruiter.
[27:33] The value of having a support network around you.
[32:50] What is the formula for knowing when to make your next hire?
[40:00] Impact of AI: “Sales people being more sustainable, resourcing people less so.”
[41:45] Clive reveals their tech stack and how AI impacts their current operations.
[45:00] The relevance of cold calling in the age of AI.
[52:00] Big differences between hiring in the US and the UK.
[1:02:10] Learnings on expanding globally.
[1:07:00] Culture and mantra that work.
Leadership That Scales
One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is the importance of evolving your role as a founder. Clive credits much of STR’s growth to the fact that he didn’t try to do everything himself. Instead, he and his co-founder took on complementary leadership roles, allowing each to focus on their strengths while building out a business that could scale beyond them.
If you’re stuck juggling billing, management, and strategy, this is your sign to rethink your leadership structure. Building a scalable firm means building scalable leadership, and that starts with letting go of being the bottleneck.
He also elaborated on the following:
1. Multifaceted Leadership Structure
2. Team Composition and Talent Strategy
3. High Energy and Personal Drive
4. Resilience Through Early-Stage Challenges
5. Realistic Growth Mindset
Clive’s success as a leader came from building a balanced team, maintaining high personal energy, fostering a resilient and realistic culture, and adapting roles and structures to match the stage of the business.
Decision Factors When to Make Your Next HireWith Clive’s success in scaling his team globally, I wanted to pick his brains on his thought process when deciding to make a new hire. As a recruitment business owner, this is a critical decision to make, as doing it too slowly can impede your business’s growth, while doing it too rapidly can lead to longer-term problems that cost more to fix.
Clive shared the following decision factors:
Strategic Forecasting & Business Planning - Hiring plans are based on quarterly forecasts developed by each brand’s leadership.
Critical Mass & Team Size Considerations - A certain headcount is needed to reach operational momentum, but hiring must be sustainable. Smaller teams (e.g., <10 people) can’t absorb too many new hires without harming billing output.
Billing Readiness - No new hires are made until existing team members are up and billing effectively.
Managerial Capacity - Avoids spreading leadership too thin and ensures productivity isn't sacrificed. The team or brand must have a strong leader with the capacity to onboard, mentor, and support new hires.
Avoiding Headcount for Vanity - Growth is measured by gross profit, not headcount, ensuring hires contribute to revenue, not just size.
Culture You Can Replicate
Culture isn’t just lip service, it’s a competitive advantage. At STR, the “Make it Happen” and “D.I.N (Do it NOW)” mantra became more than a slogan; it was a daily mindset that helped the team stay focused, take ownership, and remain commercially sharp as the business scaled.
As you grow beyond a small team, you’ll need a culture that can travel across desks, offices, and even continents. A clear, replicable culture creates alignment without micromanagement, making it easier to scale while maintaining high standards.
“Is what I’m doing right now making me money?” It’s a simple question—but it changes how people work.”Clive Hutchings Bio and Contact Info
Clive Hutchings has worked in Technical Recruitment since 1996. he established STR Group in 2000, which has evolved into a collection of niche brands in STEM sectors operating across the UK, Europe, and the USA. STR’s brands deliver people solutions in Life Sciences, Technical Engineering, Automation and Robotics, Maritime & Architecture. Now with offices in Portsmouth, Gatwick, Detroit, and Switzerland, they provide various solutions from contingent contract and permanent, through to retained, managed services, MSP, and Project solutions.
Aside from work, Clive is a family man with 5 children and a long-suffering wife. He enjoys football, hiking, being outdoors, and looking after his sheep, having recently taken a course in lambing.
Clive on LinkedIn
STR website link
People and Resources Mentioned• Blackfield Associates website link
• Navis Consulting website link
• Urban Recruitment website link
• Insignis Talent website link
• Talos Automation website link• James Caan on LinkedIn
• Alex Elliot on LinkedIn
• BullhornConnect with Mark Whitby
• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter -
What does the future look like for recruitment agency owners?
In this episode, I’m joined by DeeDee Doke, Editor-in-Chief of Recruiter magazine. With over 20 years in the role, DeeDee has a unique view of the industry, both in the UK and globally.
We recorded this live at the Recruitment Agency Expo in London, and talked about how recruitment is changing — fast.
Whether it's AI, M&A trends, or the shift from start-up to scale-up, we cover what agency leaders need to know to prepare for the next five years.Episode Outline and Highlights
[03:00] DeeDee’s journey from Seattle to London — and 20 years leading Recruiter magazine
[08:00] Discussion on doing business in the US in 2025 from the perspective of UK recruitment companies.
[09:30] US events and the economy impact the UK recruitment market.
[19:04] The differentiator between the UK recruitment industry and the US
[27:00] AI and the future of recruitment.
[34:47] Advocating the professionalism and pride of the recruiting profession.
[40:29] Redefining recruitment: professional pride, upskilling, and smarter hiringInnovation is King - Especially in a Saturated Market
DeeDee and I had a very interesting conversation on the similarities and differences between the UK and US recruitment markets. One of the key differences I pointed out is how saturated the UK market is compared to the US, while the US offers more profitable potential due to fees generated from higher salaries. DeeDee pointed out one thing that sets apart the UK market as a differentiator - she believes that the UK recruitment agencies, especially SMEs, are often more innovative than their US counterparts, not because of scale, but because saturation forces creativity. The US tends to focus on scale, while UK firms focus on differentiation and doing things differently.
But the key takeaway is this: You don’t need to be the biggest—you just need to do things differently, and better. Innovation is now a competitive requirement, not a nice-to-have.
AI and the Future of Recruitment
You will also enjoy DeeDee’s insightful take on the advent of AI and how it will impact recruiters globally. We agree that AI will be useful in freeing recruiters from administrative tasks to focus on human interaction and strategies. The integration of AI tools can also improve the candidate experience by providing timely updates and personalized communication, fostering a more engaging and supportive recruitment process.
With the streamlining and efficiency potentials AI can offer, it is also important to shift the focus from the old model of scaling, where you would need to add more people. With AI tools evolving fast, firms may no longer need as many people to get the same—or better—results. Efficiency and smart use of tech will define the next wave of growth.
It’s Time to Champion the Value of Recruitment
DeeDee has always advocated the value and importance of the recruitment profession. Too often, recruiters don’t get credit for the work they do—whether it’s helping someone into a new career, reskilling talent, or supporting growth in client businesses.
DeeDee encourages agency leaders to enter awards, tell their stories, and raise standards across the profession. Doing your part means being proud of what you do as a recruiter or recruitment business owner by making others know of the impact you are making.
Is there value in doing so? Indeed, this can attract better clients and talent in the long run.
DeeDee Doke Bio and Contact Info
Long-time editor of Recruiter magazine, DeeDee has more than 20 years of experience as a recruitment/HR specialist journalist and editor. She also has significant international experience as a defence and aviation journalist and in entertainment (theatre, contemporary music) reporting and editing. Originally from Seattle in the US, she has been a proud UK subject/citizen since 2007.
DeeDee on LinkedIn
Recruiter Magazine website link
Recruiter Awards website linkConnect with Mark Whitby
Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter -
What if discovering your neurodivergent could unlock a deeper sense of purpose—and make your recruitment business more impactful?
In this episode, Adam Tobias shares how getting diagnosed with ADHD and autism in his 40s reshaped not only how he works, but why he works. That discovery ignited a new mission: helping organizations remove the hidden barriers that exclude brilliant, underrepresented talent.
Adam Tobias is the co-founder of Inventum Group, a purpose-driven recruitment and consulting firm based in London and Johannesburg. With over 25 years in the industry, Adam has built a company that’s as values-led as it is commercially successful. Today, he advises clients ranging from FTSE 100 companies to fast-growth SMEs on how to recruit inclusively and build more resilient teams.
Episode Outline and Highlights[02:40] How Adam got into recruiting, leading to his 20-year-old recruitment firm.
[07:50] Avoiding ego-based growth: What Adam considers his lessons and learnings in his recruitment journey.
[15:04] Key elements to success.
[17:55] How finding out about his neurodivergence became a stepping-stone for inclusive consulting.
[24:40] Adam’s discovery of his neurodivergence.
[34:46] Strategies that help Adam manage ADHD and autism at work.
[38:33] Channeling Adam’s advocacy as a differentiator.
[45:57] Inventum’s business model.
[48:38] The top hiring barriers for underrepresented candidates—and how to fix them.
[56:39] Discussion on behaviour, cultures, and values.
[59:00] The value of candidate experience.
Turning Purpose into a Differentiator
Being diagnosed with autism and ADHD past 40, Adam had a renewed perspective on how to help clients be more inclusive in their hiring process. Once he uncovered his neurodivergence, he stopped trying to fit a mold and started building around what actually worked for him, leading with empathy, structure, and a culture where people could just be themselves.
This inspired him to develop The Inclusive Recruiter, a CPD-certified training program that’s now core to Inventum’s offering. It’s not just an add-on; it’s embedded into how they hire, train, and work with clients.
“So what we're doing now is helping clients fix their hiring processes—not just make placements,” Adam shared. “It’s not about how well someone interviews. It’s about how well they’ll perform over time.” How did this benefit Adam’s recruitment firm?
The ROI of Inclusive Hiring
Adam believes that inclusive recruitment is more than a moral imperative—it’s a business advantage. Structured, unbiased interviews. Clearer job specs. Candidate experience that makes people want to re-engage. These aren’t just “nice-to-haves”—they improve long-term placement success.
They also turned this mission into a consulting arm of the business. Inventum has added new revenue streams while deepening client relationships. Whether it’s through advisory, workshops, or training, Adam’s team is proving that purpose can drive profit.
“I think we’ve done well in a tough market because we’ve stayed true to who we are,” he said. “That’s what’s made us resilient.”
Top Hiring Barriers for Underrepresented Candidates
Adam shared insights on the commonly observed barriers when it comes to underrepresented groups and how they would advise their clients in terms of solutions.
Below are outlined common challenges and recommended solutions:
Challenges
• Limited Outreach & Narrow Channels
• Overloaded Job Descriptions
• Masculine-Coded Language in Job Ads
• Reliance on Outdated Job Descriptions
• Unclear Must-Haves vs. Nice-to-Haves
• Unstructured Interview Processes
• Culture Fit Bias
Solutions
• Proactive Candidate Engagement
• Simplify Job Descriptions
• Audit Job Ad Language
• Start from Scratch with Job Specs
• Ditch the “Desirable” List
• Structured Interviews with Scoring
• Reduces bias and makes evaluations more objective.
• Use Multiple Independent Interviewers
• Focus on Values, Not "Culture Fit"
• Client Education & Conversations
Adam Tobias Bio and Contact Info
Adam is the co-founder of Inventum Group, a boutique recruitment and consulting firm focused on building inclusive workplaces. With teams in London and Johannesburg, Inventum partners with companies across finance, marketing, legal, and HR to deliver talent with purpose.
Adam is also the creator of The Inclusive Recruiter—a CPD-certified training program—and a passionate advocate for neurodiversity and equity in the workplace.
• Adam on LinkedIn
• Inventum Group websitePeople and Resources Mentioned
• The Inclusive Recruiter (CPD Certified)
• Pinnacle SocietyConnect with Mark Whitby
• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
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What if you could swap 100 cold calls a day for content that reaches thousands?
That’s exactly what award-winning recruiter Justis Pederson did. In this episode, Justis shares how going digital didn’t just scale his reach—it nearly doubled his revenue.
Justis is the President & CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies in Winnipeg, which he has grown from $500K to $1.8M in revenue. His group includes recruitment, media, and real estate, with a recruitment focus on construction and engineering. He's also a member of the Pinnacle Society, an elite collective of top-performing recruiters in North America.
Rather than hiring another recruiter, Justis made an unconventional move: he hired a full-time content and social media manager. This decision reshaped how they marketed, grew their brand, and attracted inbound business.
🎯 Episode Highlights:
[02:57] From door-to-door sales to top recruiter in construction
[11:33] Traits that separate average recruiters from great ones
[13:19] Shifting from cold calls to digital marketing
[26:10] The ROI of hiring a full-time marketing person
[31:22] The 3 pillars of strong content: writing, video, design
[34:55] How to hire a marketing pro—and what to expect
[37:39] Posting content consistently with simple systems
[43:18] Building a brand without a big budget
[47:30] Transitioning to a retained search model
[51:38] Getting business without asking for business
[53:02] Justis shares a personal story of resilience
Why They Switched to Content-First Marketing
Cold calling limited their reach to 100 people a day. Content marketing allowed them to showcase their expertise to thousands. By posting regularly on LinkedIn, they moved from one-to-one calls to one-to-many digital influence.
In 2022, Justis hired Cass—not as another recruiter, but as a dedicated content and marketing lead. They began producing short videos, graphic designs, and thought leadership posts tailored to their niche. The result? Inbound leads started flowing, and revenue nearly doubled in a year.
The ROI—and Patience—of Hiring a Marketing Person
“When I first hired Cass, we billed around $500K. A year later, that was nearly $1M,” says Justis. But he emphasizes: this wasn’t an overnight win. It took nearly two years of collaboration, trial, and learning to gain traction.
He cautions listeners not to expect results in 30, 60, or even 90 days—but to commit to the long game.
The Three Content Pillars
Writing
Video
Graphic Design
Writing forms the foundation of their messaging and underpins both video scripts and visuals. Their content strategy is simple but effective: post four pieces per week, focus on one or two channels, and don’t overthink production quality.
“It doesn’t have to be a high-budget effort,” Justis explains. “You can start small and still get results.”
About Justis Pederson
Justis is an award-winning recruiter and CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies. He specializes in recruitment for the construction and engineering sectors, and complements his business with a media division focused on content and video strategy. He sits on two boards and is a member of the Pinnacle Society.
People & Tools Mentioned:
Pinnacle Society | Loomly | Monday.com
Connect with Justis:
LinkedIn | [Pederson Group Website]
Connect with Mark Whitby:
Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram
If you’ve been enjoying The Resilient Recruiter, please take two minutes to leave a review. It helps us reach more people and support more recruiters like you! -
How do you build an endless stream of referrals to sustain your recruitment business—especially during an economic downturn?
Brandon Glyck’s answer: relentless follow-ups. But not in the way you might expect. It’s not about hounding clients—it’s about staying top-of-mind with consistency, care, and value.
Brandon is the CEO of Quantum Search Partners in Virginia, where he leads a high-performing team of tech and executive recruiters. The firm has been recognized on the Inc. 500 list three years in a row (2021–2023) and was twice named a Washington Business Journal Best Place to Work (2023, 2024).
In this episode, Brandon shares the mindset, systems, and long-game strategy that helped him and his team build a $5.5M firm primarily through referrals, plus how they weathered both the 2008 recession and the 2023 tech downturn by doubling down on outbound business development.
🎯 Episode Highlights:
[03:15] Brandon’s start in recruiting at age 18
[11:24] How they adapted to the 2008 recession
[15:24] Building a $5.5M referral-based business through follow-ups
[33:12] “Those who appear hungry will starve” – Brandon’s unique approach
[37:46] Navigating the 2023 tech downturn with outbound BD
[44:02] Tech stacks, automation, and where to personalize
[53:48] What the next 18 years look like for Quantum
[56:49] Building a culture rooted in shared vision and values
[1:01:30] Why he leans into retained and executive search
Referrals Through Follow-Up, Not Force
Brandon’s version of follow-up is rooted in genuine care and consistency, not pressure. He explains how his team uses multiple touchpoints (calls, texts, emails), segmented lists, and value-first outreach (like resume reviews) to stay top-of-mind without being pushy.
His “relentless follow-up” strategy is:
Consistent, not intense
Relationship-first, not transactional
Built on goodwill, not just sales goals
Long-term oriented—some referrals take years
Resilience in 2008 and 2023
Brandon shares how he started his career making cold calls from a printed directory—and how that hustle helped them survive after losing their biggest client during the 2008 financial crisis. That same mindset carried through to 2023, when the tech market slowed and they had to retool their outbound strategy.
Key tactics included:
Diversifying verticals
Testing multiple BD methods
Focusing on personalization over automation
Creating a repeatable, scalable BD process
Age Is Not a Differentiator
Brandon made his first placement at age 18 while still in school. Inspired by his father, he learned by doing and developed a mindset that age is not a limiting factor—confidence, curiosity, and consistency are.
His early success was built on:
A humble willingness to learn
Confidence from observing real recruiters in action
Treating everyone—from CEO to janitor—with equal respect
About Brandon Glyck
Brandon is CEO of Quantum Search Partners and a passionate, competitive leader in executive and tech search. He’s a former Princeton football player with a psychology degree, and outside of work enjoys fitness, travel, and start-up investing.
People & Tools Mentioned:
Charlie Saffro | Brent Orsuga | Jeremy Jenson
Crelate | Dripify
Related Episodes You’ll Enjoy:
TRR#228 – The 4 Talent Magnets That Drive Recruiter Retention
TRR#218 – Grit and Growth in a $2M Firm
TRR#217 – Scaling to $12M with Lead Generation
Connect with Brandon:
LinkedIn | Quantum Search Partners
Connect with Mark Whitby:
Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you enjoy the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. It helps more recruiters discover the show! -
After relocating from Dubai to the U.S. with two young children, Karolina Willis found herself having to rebuild her recruitment business from scratch. Facing overwhelming personal and professional challenges, she reached a breaking point—when walking away felt like the only option.
But instead of giving up, Karolina doubled down. What followed was a period of six months of explosive growth.
In this episode, Karolina shares the mindset shifts, business decisions, and key differentiators that helped her scale Intercare Recruitment into a thriving international healthcare staffing firm. From winning retained contracts to building a remote team and offering full immigration support, Karolina’s story is filled with practical insights and inspiration for recruiters who want to build something global, resilient, and values-led.
🎯 Episode Highlights:
[01:53] Karolina’s journey from Poland to the UK, Dubai, and the U.S.
[07:27] The mindset shift that helped her bounce back after hitting a wall
[10:16] Hosting live events to build a pipeline of quality candidates
[13:39] Starting over solo—and the early challenges of launching a firm
[28:02] Relocating to Florida and facing a pivotal breaking point
[37:23] Her U.S. go-to-market strategy and how she built credibility fast
[40:34] What helped her win retained business in a competitive market
[46:30] Managing and growing a fully remote, international team
[51:59] How she identifies and mentors recruiter talent
[57:35] What she’d do differently if starting all over again
Scaling Across Borders with Heart and Strategy
Karolina built Intercare Recruitment to specialize in placing top-tier talent in nursing, allied health, and executive healthcare roles. What sets her apart is a blend of deep industry knowledge, personal investment, and standout service.
She shares the importance of:
Hiring former nurses as recruiters to ensure empathy and insight
Offering full immigration support for international candidates
Staying hyper-focused on relationship-building, not just transactions
From Survival Mode to Sustainable Growth
Karolina opens up about the emotional toll of moving countries, raising kids, and starting a business from the ground up. But what kept her going was her purpose and a deep belief in service-driven recruiting. Within months of recommitting to the business, she began to see results—securing retained contracts, expanding into new regions, and building a global team.
Her story is a masterclass in:
Personal resilience
Strategic positioning
Building credibility in a new market
Leading with empathy and authenticity
👤 About Karolina Willis
Karolina is the CEO and Founder of Intercare Recruitment, with 19 years of experience in global healthcare recruiting. She launched Intercare in 2011 and has placed top healthcare professionals across the UK, Middle East, and U.S. She’s known for her hands-on leadership, mentorship, and ability to scale teams across borders.
She holds a Bachelor’s in Human Resources Management, is PHR-certified, and is based in Greenville, South Carolina, where she’s also a proud mom to two daughters.
🔗 Connect with Karolina:
LinkedIn: Karolina Willis
Website: Intercare Recruitment
🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:
LinkedIn: Mark Whitby
Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Facebook: Mark Whitby
🎁 Free Resource:
Book your FREE 30-minute strategy call
👍 Enjoying the show?
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Focus is a superpower every recruiter needs, especially in a harsh market with tough competition. How do you keep yourself organized and focused despite multiple expectations that you have to deliver to your clients, candidates, and if you are a business owner, to your team?
Jenny shares the Jenny Diaz Day Plan and how it helps her stay organized and focused every day. She also shares how basic daily tasks help her business navigate this tough market while navigating growth and expansion.
Jenny Diaz entered recruiting in 2015. In late 2021, she, Ryan, and another former colleague, James, founded Apex Recruitment Group, a firm that specializes in construction management recruitment throughout DC, Virginia, and the Carolinas.
While Jenny has worked in various industries, she has focused on construction management for the last several years. Through her recruitment career, Jenny has had the opportunity to participate in relevant non-profits that make the tough days in recruitment easier. She is currently the Vice President of one such organization, Career Confidence.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[03:31] How Jenny got into recruiting from studying Hebrew, traveling, car washing, and working on a dude ranch.
[12:29] Discussion on “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.”
[17:25] Launching Apex Recruitment Group and overcoming initial hurdles.
[23:19] The added value of meeting people in person.
[27:39] What is it like being married to your business partner?
[30:09] Keys to getting her first million.
[33:10] Going through challenges and things they would have done differently.
[43:34] Jenny shares their growth plans.
[48:03] Zooming in on Apex’s business culture.
[54:37] Business development and client acquisition in a tough market.
Jenny’s Day Planning Process
Focus is the super power that recruiters need for sure. Successful business owners and recruiters have a daily hack on how to organize their to do’s and make the most of their days. Jenny is no different, and she gladly shared the “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.”
“So I have this Microsoft Word doc… I print it out, I take a pencil because the day will change, and I write down whatever's on my Microsoft calendar. I have a list of follow-ups that I'm people I'm going to follow up with. That's usually like five to 30 people depending. I have my three main goals, I have my two jobs. I'm going to work that day if I get it. I have things I'm grateful for, that I've learned.”
To summarize her methodology, here are the takeaways:
Jenny meticulously plans each day using a printed Microsoft Word document with hourly blocks
She writes her plan in pencil to allow for adjustments throughout the day
Her day plan includes follow-ups, main goals, jobs to work, things she's grateful for, and long-term goals
Writing plans physically rather than digitally creates a stronger commitment
The planning process helps combat distractions and provides focus
Jenny maintains this day-planning routine for approximately 90% of her workdays
Do you have a similar approach to being focused and organized?
Going Through Setbacks and Valuable Lessons Learned
Like all business owners, Jenny and his team have had a few setbacks that can be considered teachable moments. 2023 was a challenging year for them as they expanded too quickly into new geographies while the market was getting softer. They also hired four additional people, which created financial pressure and eventually forced them to scale back after the overexpansion.
Jenny shared critical learnings and adjustments they had to take to avoid reoccurrence. They learned the importance of tracking KPIs over different time periods (weekly, monthly, quarterly).
“So one thing I have done this year, just with the team member I'm working with, and he probably hates it, but I'm telling him, listen, every week you're going to fill out this form and you know it's more than just KPIs.”
They also used color-coding systems to track performance patterns.
“This is what we're doing. Are they green, yellow, or red? I actually have them. I have them, Mark, green, yellow, or red? And you know, if last week was all red, but you're trailing six months are green. Like, let's get back at it if it's all red for six months. Well, this is a story, right?”
Lastly, Jenny appreciates how partnership was crucial during tough times as partners talked each other ‘off the ledge’.
“But I think the partnership was really helpful in that because we could look around and say, no, get back. Like, come back. Like, we've all been there. You're gonna get over it. You're gonna have a great month soon. I don't know when it is, but like just get back at it.”
Business Development and Client Acquisition Tactics in a Tough Market
I also enjoyed the part of our interview where Jenny emphasized the importance of getting back to the basics on business development in a tough market.
“But it's, it's the basics. I think we are still big on cold calls. We do business development calls that are cold. We try to do a little bit. I try to do a little bit on LinkedIn or a lot, as much as I can.”
Their business development tactics include:
Cold calls - the team targets 50 meaningful connections per week.
LinkedIn Engagement
Database management.
Jenny Diaz Bio and Contact Info
Jenny has partnered with firms of all sizes to successfully recruit entry-level professionals to C-level executives. Since 2017, she has focused on engaging construction management talent in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast. She stumbled into recruitment through seemingly unrelated experiences that began with working and studying in Russia and Israel and then ended on a dude ranch outside of Yellowstone. She has learned that the people you meet along the way are anything but chance encounters.
Jenny on LinkedIn
Apex Recruitment Group website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Guerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters 3.0 by David Perry
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn,
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
-
What separates top billers from everyone else in recruitment?
In this episode, DG Recruit co-founders Dandan Zhu and Grace Marlin reveal the strategies they’ve seen consistently drive high performance across the industry. Their rec-to-rec agency gives them unique insight into what elite recruiters do differently—and how you can replicate it.
Dandan and Grace share three core themes that make or break recruiters today:
Maintaining a deep, diverse client pipeline beyond a few accounts
Making strategic relationship investments with long-term ROI
Perfecting your MPC outreach to grab hiring managers' attention fast
With Dandan’s experience as a top-producing recruiter who achieved financial independence by 28 and Grace’s 6.5 years helping launch and elevate recruitment careers, this episode is packed with field-tested insights for scaling your billings and building long-term success in agency recruitment.
🎯 Episode Highlights:
[01:28] How Dandan and Grace began working together
[04:00] Market trends in the recruitment space
[06:40] What top billers do consistently
[15:06] Why “thinking big” leads to big returns
[20:37] The “Golden Loop” approach to BD and retention
[27:26] Blueprint for an effective MPC strategy
[33:30] Adapting to changing markets and technology
[37:22] Learning more through DG Recruit’s platforms
Why Top Billers Never Stop Building Client Pipelines
Many recruiters became complacent with just a few accounts. But when the market shifted, they were left scrambling. Top billers consistently build relationships using webinars, panels, and niche content.
Dandan emphasizes, “All the playbook is there—but who’s actually running the plays?” Grace adds that success often comes from “who’s willing to go one or two steps deeper” and invest months into client relationships before seeing ROI.
The ROI of Relationship-Driven BD
From rooftop events to curated gatherings like pottery painting, Grace and Dandan invest in creative, niche-specific client events. These efforts may take years to pay off, but they create stronger trust, brand awareness, and higher placement odds.
Grace points out how few recruiters take the time to do even a couple of things differently—and that’s the opportunity. This relationship-first approach results in client loyalty and referrals that competitors miss.
MPC Strategy: Sell Your Talent, Not Your Agency
Too many recruiters waste the first few seconds of outreach on introductions. Dandan’s advice? Lead with your candidate. Immediately.
Hiring managers don’t care about your agency—they care about solving urgent problems. Skip the small talk, craft a compelling candidate profile, and confidently deliver value. That’s how top recruiters cut through the noise.
👤 About Dandan Zhu
Dandan is the Founder of DG Recruit, a top rec-to-rec firm, and the Agency Recruitment Academy. She achieved financial independence by 28 and now helps senior producers and leaders scale their success. She’s also the author of Agency Recruitment 101 and host of the DG Recruit Podcast.
🔗 Connect with Dandan:
LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter: @dandanzhudg
👤 About Grace Marlin
Grace is Co-Founder of DG Recruit and Recruiter Prep. She’s helped shape the careers of top-performing agency recruiters and is passionate about the autonomy and upside of agency life. She co-created an intro course to help new recruiters break in successfully.
🔗 Connect with Grace:
LinkedIn | DG Recruit website | DG Recruit Podcast | Facebook | YouTube
📚 Mentioned in This Episode:
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion – Robert Cialdini
🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:
Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter: @MarkWhitby -
Imagine building a recruitment firm where every placement creates a real positive impact. That’s exactly what Leo Hewett set out to do when he launched Core3—a finance & accounting recruitment agency built on purpose, ethics, and community.
After reaching Director level in corporate recruitment, Leo launched Core3 in 2022 with a clear mission: to build a B Corp-certified business that goes beyond profit. Since then, Core3 has won multiple awards including REC's Startup of the Year (2023) and Business Leader’s Business of the Year (2024).
In this episode, Leo shares his journey of launching Core3, building values-led teams, and navigating setbacks without compromising on culture or impact.
🎧 Episode Highlights:
[03:23] How Leo’s mom inspired him to give back through recruitment
[08:43] Why he launched Core3 after 10+ years in corporate recruitment
[15:30] What makes Core3 a purpose-led recruitment firm
[28:33] Why values-based businesses attract great talent
[30:39] Core3’s growth journey: milestones and challenges
[34:59] How to reactivate clients with authenticity
[37:15] ROI from building a personal LinkedIn brand
[40:41] Following up with voice notes after engagement
[43:10] Creating inner-circle communities that drive value
[51:50] Hiring experienced consultants the right way
[57:15] Overcoming scaling challenges: culture and cash flow
[1:05:31] Metrics Core3 tracks to measure what really matters
💡 Building a Purpose-Driven Recruitment Firm
Leo launched Core3 with an inheritance-funded buffer and a bold idea: to build a business where 3% of all revenue goes to charity—chosen by the client after each placement. Core3’s B Corp certification is a mark of accountability, ethics, and ESG leadership that attracts both clients and candidates who care about impact.
“The values aren’t just on the wall—you can feel them. Every placement has meaning,” Leo explains.
💬 Adding Value Through Inner-Circle Communities
Core3 created non-sales-driven communities to bring like-minded finance leaders together. What started with The Conscious Finance Podcast evolved into in-person roundtables. These events:
Build trust and deepen relationships
Position Core3 as thought leaders
Offer exclusive peer networking
Create sustained engagement and loyalty
📈 Scaling a Business with Heart—Overcoming Culture & Cash Flow Challenges
Leo shares the two major hurdles he faced while scaling:
Culture – Early-stage ambiguity made it hard to embed values. He solved it by:
Setting clear expectations
Involving the team
Hiring value-aligned people
Cash Flow – Despite success, geopolitical disruption led to a 6-month loss. His team responded by:
Increasing visibility and accountability
Shifting from input KPIs to meaningful output metrics
Implementing OKRs to drive performance
Collaborating across departments to course-correct
Core3 navigated this rough patch without losing a single team member.
👤 About Leo Hewett
Leo is the Founder of Core3, a purpose-led, award-winning recruitment firm specializing in Finance & Accounting. He believes business should be a force for good—and Core3 leads the way by pledging 3% of revenue to community and environmental causes.
🔗 Connect with Leo & Core3:
Leo on LinkedIn | Core3 Website | Conscious Finance Podcast
Instagram | Facebook | X | YouTube
📚 Mentioned:
Start With Why by Simon Sinek
🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:
Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram
Twitter: @MarkWhitby | Facebook
👍 Like the episode? Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter and leave a review to help more recruiters discover the show! -
What if your next training session became the highlight of your recruiters' week rather than just another calendar obligation? We explore how innovative recruitment leaders transform traditional onboarding into engaging experiences that drive performance and retention.
In this episode, a tenured recruiter and recruitment business owner shares his experience in training hundreds of recruiters in this career. For David, “training and developing people is fun!”
David Bloxham is the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David is passionate about connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward.
In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has expanded globally with a team of 100 consultants and 7 offices including London, Reading, Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin, Orlando and Philadelphia.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:12] How did David get started in recruiting?
[04:30] Has productivity in recruitment remaining relatively constant over time?
[13:08] Effective and efficient team structure to increase productivity.
[20:23] Hiring and developing hundreds of people over the years, what key training elements David wishes to share?
[36:05] David and his team use tools and technology for reports and gamifying objectives.
[40:27] Core focus of recruiters despite technological advances: telephone first and networking.
[49:31] Discussion on David’s Management Buyout (MBO) experience and learnings.
[56:53] Should your recruitment firm get an investment from a Private Equity?
Training and Developing People is Fun!
David started in the recruiting industry in 1996, and both of us agree that training back then was almost as simple as “here is a phonebook, and a phone, start calling.” We both understand the value of effective training as a key ingredient to successful recruiting results.
Having hired and developed hundreds of recruiters over the years, what is David’s approach to training, especially in this age where technology can overwhelm the human factor of a new recruiter? For David, it is about going back to basics and focusing on what a recruiter really does. Phone first, and building a network. He utilizes existing technology and tech stack, especially when monitoring and gamifying performance as part of training and development. Most importantly, his mindset says a lot about his success, “Training and developing people is fun!”
Below are some of the takeaways he shared on this topic:
Passion for Teaching – He genuinely enjoys training people, seeing them "get it," and watching their progress. His enthusiasm makes training engaging and impactful.
Gamification and Fun—He introduces friendly competitions, small challenges (like mentioning random topics in calls), and a team environment that keeps training lively and engaging.
Hands-On Learning – He believes in learning by doing, allowing trainees to make calls early, experience rejection, and develop resilience.
Focus on Fundamentals – Despite industry changes, he emphasizes that the core of recruitment remains the same: connecting clients and candidates.
Creating a Supportive Environment – He fosters a collaborative setting where trainees can share wins, struggles, and experiences.
Emphasizing Resilience – He prepares recruiters for the challenges of the job, especially handling rejection and navigating modern recruitment complexities.
Adapting Training to Modern Challenges – He acknowledges changes in recruitment (e.g., difficulty reaching candidates, compliance hurdles) and tailors training to address these new realities.
What Does a Recruiter Do?
Despite technological advances in AI, David strongly believes that focusing on the human factor by understanding what a recruiter does is still the key success factor in this field. He believes that two things are essential:
Telephone First
Building a Network
Regardless of what AI or other tools can do to improve your recruitment process, it is still a recruiter’s human factor of connecting with candidates and clients that drives the decision of whether you will win the business or not. As he puts it, “And, and that's really where I kind of come to with, with what does a recruiter do? What a recruiter does is it has the human interaction, the human touch, right? And if we can really get that into the heads of recruiters, this is where your value is. This is what you do, right? You meet people, you talk to people, you network, you find out things.”
Indeed, recruiters who rely too much on automation risk becoming replaceable. But those who master the human side of the business—building relationships, influencing decisions, and adding personal value—will always be in demand.
Learnings from an MBO (Management Buyout)
As one of the first employees at GCS, David was deeply invested in the company’s growth. When it reached an eight-figure valuation, the decision was made to exit certain owners and transition leadership. Since David didn’t have the capital to buy out the founder, they sought backing from nGAGE, an investment company that specializes in recruitment businesses. The process involved intense due diligence, financial scrutiny, and planning to make GCS an attractive investment.
David's learnings also apply to recruitment business owners who plan to exit and sell their business through acquisition. You may be interested in the following topics that David elaborated on:
Know Your Numbers
Focus on Profitability & Efficiency
Investors Want Focus & Justification
Culture & Brand Matter
The Shift from Employee to Shareholder
David Bloxham Bio and Contact Info
David Bloxham is a seasoned recruitment professional and the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David has a passion for connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has grown significantly on a global scale, helping clients to "Employ the Future to Create it." David's expertise in the recruitment industry and his dedication to fostering strong client relationships have made him a respected figure in the field.
David on LinkedIn
GCS Tech Talent website link
GCS Connect Leaders podcast
nGAGE talent website link
People and Resources Mentioned
LinkedIn Recruiter
Lusha
Crunchbase
Daxtra
PowerBI
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter
If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.
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The journey from top-performing recruiter to successful business leader requires a significant mindset shift. Melanie DeBeer, Director of Full Circle Selection shares how she built a thriving recruitment business that doesn't rely solely on her personal billings. With over 25 years in the industry, Melanie reveals the pivotal moment when she realized that to scale her business, she needed to step back from day-to-day operations and empower her team.
"The challenge for me was letting go," Melanie admits. "I love every component of recruitment. But I had to make a decision. I can't juggle all of these balls and my business is not going to grow and upscale if I'm doing everything myself."
This candid conversation explores how Melanie transitioned from being fully immersed in the business to working strategically on it, creating a recruitment firm that continues to thrive even when she's not directly involved in every aspect of operations.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:16] How Mark and Melanie go way back in the coaching field, and how she got into the recruitment space.
[09:49] Going back to basics and avoiding shortcuts: Highlight of Melanie’s career before starting her own business.
[14:55] How leadership and structure contributed to Melanie’s success factors as a recruiter.
[22:31] Discussion on the most impactful metrics to look at.
[26:53] Why you should not be afraid to increase your average fee percentage.
[31:34] Melanie’s journey of starting her recruitment business.
[39:25] The milestones of growing the team and how Melanie overcame the biggest challenges.
[47:32] Transitioning to a mindset of working on the business instead of ‘in the business.’
[57:54] Approach and best practices to onboard the right people.
The Importance of Going Back to Basics
Before launching her recruitment business, Melanie was an achieving recruiter. Her 25 years of recruitment experience is a colourful collage of peak performance and highlights, and she is very much willing to share her early influences and success factors.
One mindset that resonates with me is how she values the importance of returning to basics. Going back to basics is crucial for Melanie because it helps her avoid the pitfalls of taking shortcuts, which can negatively impact the quality of her work. Even as an experienced recruiter, she acknowledges that revisiting fundamental principles—such as thoroughly qualifying candidates and job specs—leads to greater success. She ensures a more strategic and sustainable path forward by stepping back, reassessing, and refining her approach, reinforcing the importance of “quality over quantity.”
Melanie also emphasized the following factors that contributed to her success as a recruiter:
Continuous Learning & Training
Strong Leadership & Guidance
Leveraging Strengths
Structured & Strategic Approach
Face-to-Face Client Engagement
Working Smarter, Not Harder
Focusing on the Most Impactful Metrics and KPIs
In running your recruitment business, what metrics do you prioritize? Melanie shared the most impactful metrics that they focus on. Below are the takeaways:
Qualified Specs & Candidate Quality—Before submission, she assesses the qualifications of job specs and candidates, ensuring higher placement success.
Referrals to Placements Ratio – She tracks how many candidate referrals (submissions) lead to placements, optimizing the process to improve efficiency.
Number of Placements Per Month – This metric helps monitor overall productivity and revenue generation.
Placement Fees & Average Placement Value—She focuses on increasing placement fees to ensure higher earnings per deal instead of simply increasing volume.
CVs Sent to Referrals Ratio – Tracking how many CVs are needed to secure a referral (candidate submission) helps refine sourcing and qualification strategies.
Interview Conversion Rate (Referrals to Interviews) – She evaluates how many referred candidates secure interviews, ensuring quality over quantity in submissions.
We also covered why you should not be afraid of increasing your average fee percentage. When done right, doing so will bring advantages and a better perception of your clients.
Working on the Business versus Working In the Business
You'll also enjoy hearing how Melanie has successfully made the shift from being fully in the business to working strategically on the business. This means she's building a business that is not overly reliant on her billings and doesn't require her micro-managing in every little area for things to get done. It was difficult for her at first, because she loves what she does, and even when building a team, there is this tendency for her to get involved in everything.
What helped her reframe her mindset is by trusting to what her team is capable of. Melanie said, “We talk about teamwork, makes the dream work. So I think there's also that element where I know that I can leave it in their hands. I know that they're going to deliver and they're competent. So again, they've got the skill, they've got the will and I know I can leave it in their hands. We've spoken about what they want to achieve. We know their long-term goals fit in with my long-term goals and they've got the skill. So I could step back a bit more.’
This resulted in Malanie having more breathing space and time to think of more strategies in running their business.
Melanie De Beer Bio and Contact Info
Melanie Donnelly is an experienced recruitment specialist and Talent Acquisition Coordinator with over 25 years in the finance and engineering sectors. Leading Fullcircle Selection, Melanie excels in aligning top talent with companies' needs, particularly in South Africa. Her client-focused approach and expertise in staff retention and recruitment process improvement have helped her build trusted partnerships and exclusive collaborations. With a strong foundation in sales and client relationship management, Melanie continues to drive impactful hiring outcomes and enhance workforce quality across industries.
Melanie on LinkedIn
Fullcircle Selection website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Dan Martell - Buy Back Your Time
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Would you be apprehensive about adding a recruitment bot in your hiring process at the risk of losing the ‘human’ factor? Our special guest, Betsy Robinson, explains how they utilize AI trends and other tech stacks to enhance their client and candidate experience.
Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group, a woman-owned, diversity-certified talent acquisition firm headquartered in Atlanta.
The company specializes in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers for technology and executive roles, combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach.
Under her leadership, Tier4 Group has achieved remarkable recognition, including six consecutive years on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing companies (2019-2024) and five appearances on the Atlanta Pacesetters list.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[03:03] Recruiting out of college - beginning of Betsy’s 20-year recruitment journey.
[07:05] How she ventured out alone - discussing high points and challenges.
[18:31] Fostering a culture of feedback and how it elevates the quality of output.
[24:19] Incorporating recruitment automation, technology, and AI.
[33:35] Would you include a digital recruiter in hiring your process?
[41:15] Betsy reveals their tech stack and AI trends.
[47:28] The value of using note-taking AI tools.
[51:52] Creating a culture of strong team collaboration.
Incorporating a Digital Recruiter in the Hiring Process
Would you consider incorporating a recruitment ‘bot’ in your hiring process? A lot of recruitment business owners might be apprehensive about doing so, as it poses the risk of diminishing the ‘human touch’ in the process.
On the other hand, Betsy's team is leveraging a "digital employee," specifically a digital recruiter, to enhance their hiring process. This AI-powered recruiter can call and chat with candidates, helping to screen large volumes of applicants more efficiently while maintaining a personalized experience. Unlike traditional chatbots or automated emails, this digital recruiter has a live voice and engages in real conversations, making it feel more human-like.
Some of the outlined advantages of this investment include:
Speed & Efficiency – The digital recruiter can process large volumes of candidates quickly, helping the team sift through hundreds of applicants without delays.
Candidate Engagement – One of the biggest complaints in recruitment is ghosting—candidates never hearing back from employers. A digital recruiter ensures consistent communication, so candidates stay informed.
24/7 Availability – Unlike human recruiters who work business hours, the digital employee can operate around the clock, allowing candidates to engage at their convenience—whether during a lunch break or late at night.
Tech Stack and AI Trends
Betsy and I also talked about the tech stacks they are using and the recent trends in technology that recruiters can use to either improve and simplify their processes, improve candidate and client engagement, and manage performance and KPIs for their employees.
We have listed below some tools that you may already be familiar with or others you might consider exploring:
Applicant Tracking & CRM Systems
Loxo – Legacy ATS/CRM system
Tracker – New ATS & CRM for front/middle office operations with better API integrations
AI-Powered Communication Tools
CloudCall – AI-driven text and voice communication for candidate and client interactions.
Digital Recruiters (AI Recruiters) – AI-powered virtual recruiters that conduct initial screenings via calls and chats.
Note-Takers & Meeting Assistants
Otter.ai – AI-powered transcription and meeting summarization.
Fathom – AI note-taking with advanced meeting insights.
Fireflies – AI transcription, summarization, and team collaboration.
Copilot (Microsoft) – AI assistant for Teams meetings and documentation.
Quill – AI-driven note-taking tool specifically for recruiters.
Gong – AI-powered call analysis and coaching for sales and recruiter conversations.
AI-Driven Data Management & Automation
VMS Integrations – Automates job order creation and updates within the ATS.
AI-Powered Contact Management – Automatically updates candidate and client contact information.
AI for Remote Team Collaboration & Coaching
AI Call Coaching (via GPT or Gong) – Analyzes recruiter and sales calls for performance improvement.
Remarkable (Digital Notepad) – Converts handwritten notes to digital format for easy CRM integration.
These tools collectively enhance efficiency, automation, and candidate engagement in recruitment businesses.
Creating a Culture of Strong Team Collaboration
Despite being tech-heavy, Betsy and her team still invest in ensuring that their connection and culture as a team is as collaborative as can be. With a team of 30, mostly working remotely, seamless collaboration and teamwork are essential.
This is how she summarizes their collaboration: “We, I will say, first of all, we welcome all ideas. It doesn't matter if you are someone who's been on our team for one week or someone who's been on our team for one year or you've been our first employee who's been here 10 years. Everybody brings unique at different perspective perspectives. And I would say we are much more collaborative in our decision-making.”
She also added the value of transparency: “We also communicate to the best of our ability the why behind a lot of our decisions that we're making.”
Lastly, she emphasized the value of accountability: “So we're also working on a culture of, you know, pure accountability.”
The key factors are critical in Betsy’s successful culture-building. Do you have similar values in terms of your business culture?
Betsy Robinson Bio and Contact Info
Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group. Headquartered in Atlanta, Tier4 Group is a woman-owned and diversity-certified talent acquisition firm specializing in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers seeking to fill technology and executive roles. By combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach, Tier4 strives to identify the best fit for both the customer and the candidate.
Tier4 Group has been recognized for six consecutive years (2019-2024) as one of the fastest-growing companies in the nation on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list, as well as being named for a 5th time in 2024 to the Atlanta Pacesetters list of the fastest growing privately-held companies in GA. Additionally, the company is a four-time Bulldog 100 Honoree. The Bulldog 100 recognizes the 100 fastest-growing businesses owned or operated by UGA Alumni.
Betsy was named LGBTQ Businessperson of the Year in Georgia in 2023 and recognized to the inaugural Inc Magazine 30 Under 30-ish list in 2023. She was also named to the Atlanta Business Chronicle’s 40 Under 40 Class of 2019. Betsy holds a B.B.A. from the University of Georgia’s Terry College of Business. She is an active volunteer with Women in Technology (WIT), currently serving on the Board of Directors. Betsy has also served on the Board of Directors for the Technology Association of Georgia’s Diversity & Inclusion Society, as well as the Business Advisory Board for ITT Technical Institute.
Outside of work, Betsy is active in outreach within the community as a volunteer supporting several non-profits. Her most important jobs are as a wife and mom. On weekends, you can find her cheering on her son on the soccer field, boating on the lake, or cheering loudly in the stands for the Atlanta sports team as well as the Georgia Bulldogs.
Betsy on LinkedIn
Tier4 Group website link
Retained Executive Search (a division of Tier4) website link
WIT (Women in Technology) website link
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Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
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A 25-year recruiting veteran! Our special guest, Jeff Cox, shares his journey and insights on how he made two transitions to up his recruitment game: From placing junior to senior roles and switching from contingent to retainer model.
These shifts can be challenging, and so it takes the right mindset and preparation for your to have the power to transition. Jeff shared how he did it!
Jeff specializes in assisting biotech and pharmaceutical companies in building transformative leadership teams.
As a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society, Jeff is one of the top-producing recruiters in the country. But he believes success in this industry is less about the money and more about the people we impact and the life-changing projects we advance.
Episode Outline and Highlights
[02:50] How did Jeff end up in the recruiting industry after aspiring to become an actor?
[06:52] Acting as Jeff’s cornerstone in his recruitment approach.
[10:42] Success factors contributing to consistent improvement when starting your desk.
[18:34] Why being nervous all the time is not necessarily a bad thing.
[20:11] Jeff shares his experience working with his father and siblings in the business.
[24:48] Transition to placing senior directors, VPs, and C-level executives.
[42:36] Insights on the current market and team dynamics and how it can be challenging for [retained searches.
[48:34] Switching from contingent to retained search - the power of walking away.
[54:35] Going back to the basics amid a big reset in 2025.
What Success Looked Like
What would Jeff consider a success factor in his success as a recruitment business owner? For him, it is no magic ingredient.
“It's just showing up every day and being, you know, you know, like my dad says. We used to say, “Dad, I don't know what to do.” You know, pick up the phone. That's what you do. “Dad, I don't have enough job orders.” Pick up the phone. If you work every day, it works out.”
Jeff emphasized the value of being consistent and showing up every day as a key factor in his longevity and success in the recruiting field. He also shared how his background as an actor helped him learn a lot about being human - which is a key ingredient when building relationships with clients and candidates.
“I mean, I think that's the foundation, of why I'm a good recruiter. Because, you know, the most important thing to do as an actor is to listen. To listen and to live in the moment, you know, not, not to let things get ahead of yourself… I guess also the ability, you know, when you play a lot of different characters, you have to be able to jump into other people's skin. You have to be able to understand.”
On top of the above, he also had the foundation of working in his father’s recruitment firm. This led him to eventually build his desk and the rest is history.
Transitioning to Place Executive Senior Roles
Jeff initially worked in lower-level positions such as associates and clinical chemists. When he started his firm, he made two key decisions that positively impacted his revenue.
Making a strategic decision to focus on higher-level positions such as directors, VPs, and C-level executives.
Moving from Contingency to Retained search model.
The first item above is not an easy transition. Jeff decided to no longer accept managerial placements but rather focus on executive-level positions. Here are the two takeaways:
Making a Conscious, Strategic Shift – He decided to position himself exclusively for senior director-level and above roles. This meant actively telling the market, "No, I don't work at that level; I only recruit senior executives." By consistently reinforcing this message, he established himself as a specialist in executive recruitment.
Leveraging Long-Term Relationships – Over time, the professionals he had placed in junior roles advanced in their careers, moving into managerial and director positions. He capitalized on these relationships, using his existing network to transition into higher-level placements.
He also had the same mindset when he switched from a contingent to a retained search model. He shared that for him to have the ability to make strong choices such as this decision to switch, he had to ensure that he kept his housekeeping in order. “I made a strategic choice to live within my means. And when I made. When I made these choices, I was like, okay, you've got enough. You've got enough Runway where you can do it.”
Why Going Back to the Basics is Essential in This Market
A key topic that resonates with me is how Jeff deals with the current market difficulty in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries.
“I think the pharmaceutical and biotech industry has had a rough year and there's this balancing act that I'm going through in my brain. Do I go back to contingency when times are tough? Like, like what do you know? What do I do?”
If you can relate to how Jeff felt, I am sure you will appreciate his strong sense of accountability and self-awareness.
“And I, and I have found that I'm not, I'm not doing my job as well as I should. So it's now for me it's a time to get back to the basics. And I think that's what 2025 is. It's getting back to doing the job properly, you know, and, and you know, and I fault myself because I should have known this, but sometimes you don't see it, but really like sitting here now, it's just getting back to the basics. So I'm excited and that's exciting to me. It's like the realization is I gotta go back to the basics. I gotta start hammering out the phone calls and it's exciting.”
Such an admirable mindset!
Jeff Cox Bio & Contact Info
With over 25 years of experience in pharmaceutical recruitment, Jeff has built a career connecting top talent with leading companies. The journey began in 1995 with a first placement made in just 16 days—a milestone that set the stage for decades of success.
Starting with roles such as Clinical Research Associates, Analytical Chemists, and Regulatory Affairs Associates, Jeff steadily progressed to placing Managers, Senior Managers, Associate Directors, and Directors. Today, the focus is on VP-level and executive placements, a natural evolution earned through years of dedication and expertise.
More than just a recruiter, Jeff is a builder—helping biotech and pharmaceutical companies strengthen their leadership teams with experienced professionals who have climbed the ranks step by step. At this level, recruitment goes beyond compensation; it’s about aligning the right people with the right projects to drive innovation and impact.
Jeff on LinkedIn
CKR Associates website link
Pinnacle Society website link
People and Resources Mentioned
Katherine Jerald on LinkedIn
Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, R.Fisher
Connect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy call
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Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
Mark on Facebook
Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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Imagine this: being so meticulous in your candidate screening process invites an unexpected face-to-face investigation from Federal Agents. That is what our special guest, Lee Ann Howard, had to go through when starting as a recruiter in her early 20s. The secret to her 'suspicious' expertise? Simply asking the right questions and listening carefully to candidates.
Lee Ann is the visionary Founder of Howard & O'Brien Executive Search. With a keen eye for identifying top talent in senior management roles and a specialization in HR, finance, and sales and marketing functions, Lee Ann stands as a beacon of excellence in the realm of executive search.
You will surely enjoy Lee Ann’s insights on how to build a continuous pipeline of senior management roles for your clients and what it takes to have long-lasting strategic client relationships.
Episode Outline and Highlights
01:18 How Lee Ann left broadcasting to get into recruitment. 05:05 What made Lee Ann stand out in her early years; Her astonishing story of why she had to be investigated by the government because of her recruitment activities. 12:05 Emphasizing learning and development. 20:04 From corporate to executive search - Lee Ann shares her transition. 27:15 Discussion on the board recruiting business model of Howard & O’Brien. 45:48 Lee Ann explains their Conversation with the Board program. 48:38 Discussion on their Reverse Placement program. 51:17 How to cultivate long-term strategic client relationships. 57:30 Making it a family business - how Lee Ann’s children eventually joined her in the business.
Unexpected Government Investigation for Doing a Thorough Job
Lee Ann shared an astonishing story about being investigated by federal agents because of their extensive knowledge of security-cleared roles and positions.
“I ended up getting investigated by the government because they thought I was a spy because I knew too much … I literally got visited. I was visited by the government. It was unbelievable because I was sitting in my office and the receptionist came back and they said, there's somebody here from the government to see you. And I'm like, I've paid my taxes because that's the only thing I thought I could possibly do wrong. And I got taken into a conference room and they said, we believe you know too much about what's happening. And I'm like, no, I'm not a spy. I don't work for Russia.”
This made her realize that she was probably doing something right if she was getting information that other people were not getting in their industry. Indeed she was! Asking the right questions, and being meticulous in her job, contributed highly in her success as a recruiter and later on as a recruitment business owner. Some of the takeaways on Lee Ann’s success factors are as follows:
Instinctive Recruiting Ability
Curiosity and Continuous Learning
Strong Relationship Building
Commitment to Hard Work
Personalized Approach
Client and Candidate Engagement
Being Not Focused on Sales, But on Relationships
Which of the above success factors resonate most with you as a recruiter or business owner?
Board Recruiting, Conversation with the Board, and Reverse Placement Programs
Lee Ann also discussed key strategies that they implement in Howard & O’Brien with the focus of providing a continuous stream of C-level talents to their clients. The three main programs she discussed are Board Recruiting, Conversation with the Board, and Reverse Placement. Below are the key concepts of the programs:
Board Recruiting
Board recruiting is the process of identifying and placing individuals in board positions for organizations. Unlike traditional executive search, it involves adding responsibilities rather than replacing someone. The process includes:
Engaging with CEOs, board chairs, or governance committees to define the board’s needs.
Creating a strategic long-term plan for board composition.
Ensuring cultural fit and alignment with the company’s strategic direction.
Conversation with the Board
This is a program aimed at increasing diversity and exposing more candidates—particularly women—to board opportunities. It was developed as a way to help executives, who may not see themselves as board material, realize their potential for board service. It involves:
Facilitating networking opportunities between potential board members and current board leaders.
Encouraging companies to consider non-traditional candidates who bring valuable perspectives.
Reverse Placement Programs
This is a specialized career development service for executives looking to join boards. It is either funded by companies or individuals and serves as a way for leaders to continue their professional growth. It provides:
Guidance on positioning oneself for board roles.
Strategic networking with board leaders.
These programs put Lee Ann’s team in a strategic position, providing them a long-term relationship-building with existing clients.
Cultivating Long-Term Strategic Relationships
On this topic, Lee Ann summarized what can make you stand out with the following experience she had: “What makes you different is what you're trying to do. And I think it's the little things. There was a marketing person that I was interviewing for a job and she knew I'd just gotten a new puppy and she sent me this little assortment of stuff for my puppy. Now I still remember that because, I mean, she listened to what I was saying. It, you know, she probably spent $20 on it. But what an impact.”
It is indeed the little things you do. Some of the best practices that Lee Ann and her team have been doing over the years are as follows:
Long-Term Value Over Transactions – They prioritize relationships rather than quick sales, consistently providing valuable insights, industry articles, and strategic advice.
Community Engagement – Each team member is involved in community initiatives, reinforcing their reputation as good corporate stewards and deepening trust with clients.
Personalized Touchpoints – They maintain relationships through handwritten thank-you notes, customized gifts (e.g., olive oil or cherry salsa), and small but meaningful gestures that make an impact.
Being Helpful Beyond Business – They go beyond recruitment by assisting clients in unexpected ways, like recommending a plumber and reinforcing their role as trusted advisors.
Their approach is centered on authenticity, generosity, and a long-term mindset, setting them apart from competitors. As Lee Ann concluded, “It is putting yourself second and putting others first.”
Lee Ann Howard Bio & Contact Info
As Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Howard & O’Brien, Lee Ann Howard brings with her a passion for understanding people and dedication to following their journey in executive leadership. In her 25 years of connecting high-caliber candidates with her clients, she has solidified her reputation in driving quantifiable success for million and billion-dollar companies across North America.
Lee Ann leads a Women-Owned Business and carries this spirit into diversity, inclusion, and equitable placement strategies.
Lee Ann founded Conversations with the Board® in 2001 and continues to lead workshops for those who serve or have the desire to serve boards. She is currently on the board of the American Heart Association as Leadership Development Co-chair and past Board Chair as well as Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) Family Business Center Advisory Committee. She has served on the boards of MetroHealth Foundation Board - Membership Committee Chair; the John Carroll University Entrepreneur Association - Executive Committee; In Counsel with Women - Membership Chair, The Gathering Place, Women’s Community Foundation, and Business Volunteers Unlimited (BVU).
Lee Ann is especially passionate about and involved in the shared impact of individuals in greater Cleveland. Over the course of her career, she has received the National Association of Women Business Owners Top Ten Award in Northeast Ohio, the Athena Award, and the Medical Mutual Pillar Award for Community Service.
Lee Ann on LinkedIn
Howard & O’Brien website link
Howard & O’Brien on LinkedIn
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Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
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Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach
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