• When the NBA shut down due to the Coronavirus on March 11, 2020, Joe Rice knew immediately that his hospitality search firm, Joseph David International, would soon be in serious trouble. He also knew that he wasn’t going down without a fight!

    In this episode, listen into my conversation with Joe as he describes how they immediately pivoted to a brand new market sector and finished out the year on their best-ever quarterly performance.

    Joe’s story is highly relevant and relatable, and he doesn’t hold back. Listen in to discover his biggest lessons and takeaways that can be applied by any recruitment business owner who aspires to build (or rebuild) a 7-figure firm.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [3:05] Joe shares his first experience in the Pinnacle Society and his ‘intense’ encounter with Jordan Rayboy. [6:10] A critical and timely pivot - listen to how Joe dealt with the pandemic. [12:30] Joe shared the steps he took when re-starting his business and our discussion about building your database. [20:20] Shifting from solo full desk production to assuming the CEO role - Joe’s shares his transition. [22:40] “Barbaric, caveman-like recruiting” and going back to the fundamentals of good old-fashioned hard work. [29:30] Operating in faith, listen to Joe’s encouraging realizations when his company underwent trying times. [38:55] The mindset and mentality of a top producer. [44:36] What 2021 looks like for JDI. [48:41] Joe talks about the MogulRecruiter platform.

    A Difficult but Necessary Pivot

    Joe started his recruitment career around 2005 and with a core focus on the hospitality industry. With the implementation of lockdowns and mobility restrictions, hospitality is one of the most impacted industries during the pandemic. How was Joe able to deal with this sudden change?

    He started “I didn’t go full time recruiting until ‘06 but it was all hospitality then… I worked for hospitality from that point, until last year. That is all I ever did.” A critical moment hit him around February 2020 when he attended a conference called ALIS (American Lodging Investment Summit) and CEO Chris Cahill of Accor Hotel connected with him. In a call, he was told by Chris, “Joe, I can’t believe nobody’s paying attention to this thing… the coronavirus… Joe, it’s unreal to me, nobody is paying attention. The hotel industry is not paying attention. No one. And it’s coming, it is coming I promise.” This got Joe asking around and realized not many people he knew at that time was aware of what was coming.

    This realization helped to prepare Joe and his team. A point came when he dropped everything in hospitality and pivoted to healthcare. His actions were timely and it proved valuable when clients from the hotel industry started telling them that their services were no longer needed.

    “Barbaric, Caveman-like Recruiting” and Going Back to the Fundamentals

    Joe and I had a discussion about the definition of ‘hard work’ in a recruiter’s field. Transitioning from hiring hospitality professionals to hiring healthcare professionals, what Joe realized is the importance of hard work and going back to the fundamentals. This is how he revealed his realizations, “I get to have a very stark contrast when I did jump back into full desk eventually. This business hasn’t really changed that much. It’s eerie, that it is one of the few businesses that has not really innovated much. They tried to innovate, but they really haven't. And the way that we made this turn, was good old-fashioned hard work. There was nothing scientific or magical beyond getting the data and at that point, it was phone calls, email, and activity.”

    Joe added, “It was just, barbaric, caveman-like recruiting.”

    A typical day for Joe was making 70 phone calls to try to get business and sending out email campaigns. A lot may have forgotten the fundamentals of recruitment - persistence, hustle and grind. Hear how this approach worked out for Joe.

    A Change in Paradigm and Valuable Learnings

    Undergoing trying times during this pandemic, hear Joe reveal his valuable learnings and realizations. Some of them are:

    The importance of persistence and hard work Having the awareness of how blessed you really are. The importance of a team.

    Trust me, you will want to hear it from Joe. His firsthand experience is definitely relatable to a lot of recruiters who have been adversely affected by the pandemic.

    Joe Rice Bio and Contact Info

    Joe is a Managing Partner and Founder of Joseph David International (JDI), twice recognized by Forbes as one of the best executive recruiting firms in America. He is also a partner in MogulRecruiter, a technology platform that provides recruiting, booking and talent solutions for service leaders. His recruiting career started in 2005 with Snelling Hospitality with a specialty in executive search, consulting, talent acquisition, and organizational leadership.

    Joe on LinkedIn Joseph David International (JDI) website link JDI on Facebook JDI on Twitter @JDIsearch JDI on Instagram MogulRecruiter website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Michael Talarico on LinkedIn Jordan Rayboy on Linkedin Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn Interseller - email campaign tool website link Pinnacle Society website link Good To Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't by Jim Collins Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy TRR#35 Inner Grit: The Traits of a Big Biller, with Jeremy Sisemore

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  • The classic contingency recruitment model is outdated and wide open for disruption.

    Not only is the traditional multi-agency approach to recruitment grossly inefficient but it’s often a deeply unsatisfying experience for all parties, including the recruiter, the client and the candidates.

    This is especially true for fast-growing technology companies who are scaling rapidly and running into challenges with talent acquisition.

    In this episode, my special guest Doeke Geertsma explains how he identified a gap in the tech recruiting space and created an innovative solution to meet the demands of this market.

    Doeke is the founder and CEO of WeAreKeen, based in Amsterdam with clients throughout Europe. WeAreKeen provides RPO services for fast-scaling technology companies. Specifically, they provide highly skilled tech recruiters who are embedded within the client’s team on a subscription basis.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [3:30] Doeke explains WeAreKeen’s business model and how it started. [9:23] An existing market-gap that led to launching a ‘talent-embedded acquisition’ business model. [17:11] Hear about Keen Academy and how it creates a talent pool of tech recruiters for WeAreKeen. [23:39] Doeke shares the roadblocks and challenges when launching his business. [32:20] WeAreKeen’ strategy for adding value to the tech recruiter community and investing for the long term. [42:30] A walkthrough WeAreKeen’s approach to business development. [50:30] Discussion on sales touchpoints and continuous nurturing of relationships. [54:16] Doeke’s biggest learning - what would be done differently if given a second chance?

    WeAreKeen’s Embedded Talent Acquisition Business Model

    When offered an opportunity to work in Berlin, Doeke saw the increasing demand for tech recruiters. He saw a trend - tech companies picking up funding and embarking on a massive growth program only to run into major challenges. As Doeke stated, “And you see them struggling and the result of the struggle is always the same. They started looking for people, they weren’t there. They will start hooking up agencies, of course, there were agencies, but that didn’t solve the issue because then they start working with let’s say 5 or 10 different agencies and then the amount of work will not necessarily decrease.” This observation inspired Doeke to launch his own business to solve this specific challenge he heard over and over from founders of tech companies.

    From a high-level perspective, WeAreKeen’s business model can be summarized as:

    Adding extra specialized capacity to the client’s recruitment team Subscription type business model: projects would run within 6-18 months They specialize in tech recruiters - meeting the demands of clients scaling very rapidly

    Hear in detail Doeke’s strategy on adding value and meeting client’s end-to-end recruitment needs - from designing recruitment strategies, branding, and hiring plans.

    Adding Value to the Tech-Recruiter Community

    Despite the pandemic, Doeke’s company was able to further add value to the tech recruitment community through webinar series, snackable contents, and masterclasses which are mostly offered for free. This continuous platform for learning and education aims to reach tech professionals and recruiters. Although there is no immediate drastic monetary value, this helps WeAreKeen to establish brand equity and massively elevates their standing and reputation in the market place.

    Doeke believes that being authentic is most important in providing this type of service. As he said, “I really am a strong believer in the networking thing and being transparent and adding value… I think what to me is really important, it might sound a bit cliche, but there is a certain type of authenticity about it I think that people feel and like.”

    He also added, “This may not give us the most growth in the short term, but in the long term I am a firm believer that this will bring us out on top basically because we like what we do and… we are in it to do an amazing job. If we see an opportunity to add value besides closing a deal then we’ll do it anyway because it will bring us more in the long run, right?”


    Doeke is an avid supporter of Sheltersuit, a non-profit that designs and manufactures multifunctional products that provide immediate shelter to people experiencing homelessness. If you wish to donate and support, you may refer to the link below.

    Doeke Geertsma Bio and Contact Info

    Before starting as an entrepreneur Doeke had been active in the staffing industry for more than a decade with several international leadership roles. In his last position, Doeke helped set-up a new entity in Germany. It was in this role Doeke fell in love with Berlin and the technology scene. This was also the place where the business idea for WeAreKeen came to be. Providing RPO services to fast scaling technology companies and addressing the gap for well-trained tech recruiters.

    Doeke on LinkedIn WeAreKeen website link WeAreKeen on Facebook WeAreKeen on Instagram WeAreKeen on Youtube

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Sheltersuit website link Adriaan Kolff on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

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  • Do you want to build a recruitment business that operates without your day to day involvement and maybe even sell it someday?

    If so, you’ll really enjoy my interview with Joel Slenning.

    Joel is the President of Innova People, a healthcare and IT staffing agency based in Oregon. Prior to that, Joel was the founder and CEO of Icon Medical Network, a locum tenens provider which he scaled to £16,000,000 before selling in 2019.

    Most recruitment firms are “lifestyle” businesses run by owner-operators. Few recruitment businesses ever grow beyond 5-10 people, and fewer still give the owner the potential for an exit. There is a simple reason for that - scaling up your staffing and recruiting is extremely challenging.

    In this episode, Joel breaks down exactly how he was able to rapidly scale his recruitment business and gives detailed advice on how to structure the firm, bring the right people on board at the right time, and set them up for success.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [4:30] Starting a recruitment firm during the recession - hear Joel’s journey of “going out on his own in the worst market possible” [9:35] What Joel is trying to achieve - and why [12:30] Joel describes the “scary” first 12 months of starting the business [16:30] How hiring a virtual assistant can help you increase productivity [18:35] When to make your first or second hire - listen to Joel’s revenue-based “12 months” rule and other hiring principles when scaling [27:22] How to use metrics to make sure everyone is on the right track [36:10] Reality Check: So you want to scale your recruiting business? Here’s what you should expect… [44:55] The importance of closely tracking your ‘first-time interviews” [47:10] Key roles and responsibilities you have to bring in so you can free up yourself and scale your business

    Building a Recruitment Firm During the Recession

    Joel is not only a successful recruiter, but he is also a successful firm founder who built a scalable business model. It started around about the time of the last big recession. Not the best time to start a firm, and as he said, “For some reason, I had this crazy notion that I needed to go out on my own in the worst market possible.”

    Some of the business philosophies he mentioned are the following:

    Lay the foundation - have specific values for your company. Surround your recruiters with tools to make their job easier for them to focus on deal-making. Surround your talents with other talented people. Replicate this business model to different disciplines in healthcare.

    Setting the Metrics for Successful Hires

    When I asked Joel about the hiring metrics that he used to allow him to know that they’ve hired someone on the right track, he admitted that it was not easy at first and they also made mistakes. As Joel puts it, “Early on, we totally screwed it up, you know, 10 times over.” One question he had to solve was, how can you measure the contribution of someone who is not making placements? He realized key metrics - key components of the business that were being done. Some of the key pointers that Joel shared when setting the metrics are as follows:

    Set a number of calls/emails a day Set a number of people that they can connect with Set a number of jobs that they can pitch (hear the why and the how of this metric)

    On the above, an excellent example that Joel stated was setting a minimum of 45 outbound calls a day, resulting in at least 2 to 3 connections where they are pitching, typically resulting in 1 submission. Setting the metric is just the beginning, hear the rest from Joel on the specifics on how this system is being applied and the results it produced.

    Joel Slenning Bio and Contact Info

    Joel is a talent acquisition expert, talent strategist, tech investor, and tech startup guru based in Portland, Oregon. With a recruitment career spanning for more than 20 years, Joel has always been a consistent top performer and an award-winning billing manager. He is the president of INNOVA People, a Human Resources Solutions agency that utilizes AI platforms to solve complex HR problems mainly focused on healthcare and information technology.

    Joel on LinkedIn Email address: joel@innovapeople.com Innova People website link Innova People on Facebook

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Recruiters, are you prepared for the threats and opportunities that will affect our industry as we enter the early stages of a fourth industrial revolution, characterized by the rise of robots and Artificial Intelligence?

    As the trend towards automation gathers pace, there will be seismic shifts in the global labor market. Many jobs will disappear completely while entirely new types of jobs will be created.

    How will these changes affect you as a recruiter or recruitment business owner?

    To help answer this question, I asked Jeff Wald, best-selling author of The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations, to share his insights with listeners of my podcast.

    Jeff is an angel investor and startup advisor, having built and sold multiple technology companies. He was the founder of WorkMarket, an enterprise software platform that enables companies to manage their freelancers which he sold to ADP in 2018. He is also the founder of Spinback which he sold to salesforce.com. Jeff frequently speaks at conferences and in media on the future of work.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [1:48] How Jeff got into the field of the work market and on-demand labour. [4:11] Jeff shares the first business failure that bankrupted him. Listen to his learnings from this experience. [11:25] Hear an insightful discussion on the future of work and the fourth industrial revolution. [18:24] Post-pandemic near and long term effects. [25:56] Jeff elaborates more on the fourth industrial revolution - will tech eventually replace the majority of workforce functions? Hear the numbers. [38:00] Economic and social dislocation and its impact on the fourth industrial revolution. [40:15] The future of On-Demand Labour. [45:00] Jeff reveals why he wrote his bestselling book, the End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations. [53:00] How Jeff’s Tony-Award winning production fits into his career.

    A Firm Believer of the Growth Mindset

    In our conversation, Jeff shared one of the most significant backstories in his career: a business failure that bankrupted him to his last dollar. As you listen to the details, you will also feel Jeff’s frustration. Despite having beautiful concepts and business plans, the fallout was caused by stakeholders not getting along. It was really difficult to see the learnings while you are in the midst of the storm. As he said, “I’m a huge believer in the growth mindset… this is a learning experience, it’s tough to see when you’re in it… Everybody was saying, ‘oh you’re gonna look back at this and think it’s so great’ and I was like, ‘Ah, shut up! I don’t want to hear that.’ Because you don’t want to hear it at the time but it is certainly true.”

    A lot of recruiters and recruitment business owners might have experienced the same since last year because of the challenges brought about by the pandemic. If Jeff could give any advice to struggling recruiters, what would it be? Below are the highlights:

    Failure is critical to learning. Jeff said, “If you’re gonna do three startups and one of them has to fail and bankrupt you, have it be the first.” Be data-driven but remember that not everything is not within your control. The biggest variable that will determine your success is you. Your ability to push through and be resilient is the most important variable. There are times that the most intelligent thing to do is to fold it up.

    The Future of the Work Market

    Given the current situation and that we are in the early stages of what many are calling ‘fourth industrial revolution (robots and AI)’, what predictions can Jeff make about the future of work? He gave really interesting and insightful inputs. “I will say this, history tends to rhyme…” is how he started his response. A valid point he raised: it is best to look at how we reacted to the first three industrial revolutions to see how society might react to the fourth revolution.

    For the past three industrial revolutions (mechanization, electrification, computerization) this is what was seen:

    In the beginning, people started to “freak out” and were fearful of losing jobs In the middle, job losses, economic and social disruptions occur, but at the same time, lower cost of production and greater output happens as well as an increase in the number of jobs. In the end, there are more jobs, higher standards of living, and people that work fewer hours.

    Jeff concludes, “And so as we look at the fourth… I am confident that there will be many differences in this industrial revolution. It will happen quicker, it will be more global, productivity increases might actually be greater, I am very confident that we will see higher standards of living, more jobs, and people working fewer hours.”

    Jeff Wald Bio and Contact Info

    Jeff is a serial entrepreneur, Board Member, Best Selling Author, Keynote speaker and investor. Jeff’s most recent company, Work Market, an enterprise software platform that enables companies to manage freelancers was acquired by ADP in 2018. Jeff has founded several other technology companies, including Spinback, a social sharing platform (eventually purchased by salesforce.com). He began his career in finance, serving as Managing Director at activist hedge fund Barington Capital Group, a Vice President at venture capital firm GlenRock and various roles in the M&A Group at JP Morgan.

    Jeff has served on numerous public and private Boards of Directors including Steel Connect (NASDAQ: STCN), Costar Technologies (OTC: CSTI) and venture-backed TransfrVR. Jeff serves as an adviser to several companies and entities including the X-Prize’s Rapid Reskilling Initiative.

    Jeff is the author of the #1 Amazon Best Seller, The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations and The Birthday Rules: A Fun and Flexible Framework for Raising Children in a Technology Enabled World.

    Jeff frequently speaks at conferences and in media on startups and the future of work. He was named several times as one of the 100 Most Influential People in Staffing by the Staffing Industry Analysts. He is a producer of the Tony Award-winning Best Musical, A Gentleman’s Guide to Love and Murder and the full-length feature film, Inez & Doug & Kira, which won Best Picture at several film festivals.

    Jeff formerly served as an officer in the Auxiliary Unit of the New York Police Department. Jeff holds an MBA from Harvard University and an MS and BS from Cornell University

    Jeff on LinkedIn Jeff’s website link Jeff on Twitter @jeffreywald WorkMarket website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    The End of Jobs, by Jeff Wald Abid Hamid on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an “Exit-able” Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • If you’re tired of being treated as a “vendor” and want to forge true partnerships with your clients, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

    Many recruiters would like to shift from a transactional business model to a more consultative, value added one. The challenge is that both the recruiter and the client are constrained by old patterns -- outdated ways of thinking and doing things. They recognize their recruitment process is incredibly inefficient but they don’t know how else to do it.

    Listen in to my fascinating interview with Steven Street about how he’s disrupting the ways recruitment services are traditionally sold and delivered and creating joint-ventures with client companies to solve their talent acquisition challenges.

    Since 2015, Steven has been the CEO of Cubed Talent Management - incorporating Cubed Recruitment, Indigo Healthcare Recruitment, and Cubed Academy. Cubed Talent Management brings a new approach to strategic talent management for the engineering, FMCG, electronics, manufacturing and supply chain sectors. Steven started his recruiting career over 25 years ago.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [3:00] Steven shared his humble beginnings [10:18] What is Steven’s “person-to-person” principle? [20:30] How to establish a true partnership with your clients [29:05] An interesting discussion about repositioning in the recruitment sector [32:10] How to make ‘in-house’ an opportunity instead of a threat [42:30] Learn more about the joint-venture and gain-share business models [55:21] “Be an individual” - how this advice relevant to help your recruitment business

    Person-to-Person Principle

    How much value do you put in professionally building real relationships with stakeholders? Steven believes that collaboration, strategic alliances, and joint ventures with clients can be an effective strategy. Explaining his guiding principles when doing business, he explained: “I’ve got high standards as an individual, and one of my many guiding principles, what I recognized very early on, was not to be a function to function, a recruiter to the hirer, supplier to customer, nor be brand to brand. I link up to whoever it might be, the client, company, but for it to be person to person. Steven to Mark. Steven to whoever it might be.

    As he further expounded, when you strip away the person’s function and the person’s position, the core of that is a person were in all likelihood, “you have shared values, world views, commonality, family, what you think, what you believe, all of that.”

    Steven’s authentic relationship with clients resulted in having partners for 20 to 25 years and some of them starting as customers to ending as business partners.

    Radically Repositioning the Recruitment Sector

    Steven sees the current sector as being somewhat ‘undignified’ in a sense and generally having a need to mature. When recruiters are cannibalizing over each other as they go out for opportunities and leaving clients somewhere in that melee, it can be perceived as something really unprofessional and self-centered. Instead of disrupting the way recruiters work using technology or other fundamentals, Steven pointed out that very valid inputs and some of them are below:

    Treat your client with respect and dignity - get in their shoes and feel what it is like in the receiving end of the experience. Be collaborative and open-minded. In line with the above, Steve shared a very good example on how to explain to clients more advantageous options versus just going ‘in-house.’ Partnering with clients and the game-share model. Rethinking our relationship with clients.

    To summarize, Steven stated “That’s what I mean about disrupting how we do things. It’s really nothing about the technology. It’s really nothing about the fundamentals in recruitment. It’s really about rethinking our relationship with our clients.”

    Martin House Children's Hospice

    Hear about this amazing charity work and how this inspires Steven to have a sense of community and keeping himself grounded. You may refer to the link below to know more about this organization and how you can help out.

    Steven Street Bio and Contact Info

    Got into recruitment on the ground floor - fortuitously, with Larry Gould's business Link Up in June 1993 - followed by a successful stint with Pertemps (which would have been my forever career - had I not launched Relay Recruitment in 1996; subsequently sold in 2011. Now working with an amazing handpicked team at Cubed Talent Management.

    As stated on my LI profile: a human Swiss Army knife, problem solver, acquirer and nurturer of World Class talent, therapist, wine drinker, believer in a brighter future and, most importantly- lover of dogs. 🐶 Yorkshire born and bred - dragged up in Bradford.

    A vociferous enemy of mediocrity, shabby service, average aspiration, poor standards and negativity.

    My own personal mission is to launch a community enterprise supporting young people with Autism, Aspergers and other additional needs into dignified internships, work placements, work experience and ultimately, quality career pathways.

    Steven on LinkedIn Cubed Talent Management website link Cubed Resourcing website link Cubed Resourcing on Facebook

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Martin House - “Hospice care for children and young people” website link Darren Ledger on LinkedIn Plamen Ivanoff on LinkedIn Natasha Makhijani on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #30 How to Open Doors and Build Relationships at C-Level, with Natasha Makhijani TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Can you imagine building a salesforce of 100+ staff in 5 months with a team of only 3 recruiters? In the 50th episode of the Resilient Recruiter, my very special guest Jennifer Poloni shares how having a unique approach and consistent planning process lead to the accomplishment of this gargantuan feat.

    Jennifer is the owner of the Cascadia Search Group. She started her career as a sales rep and then sales manager in pharma. After having kids she decided to join her husband in his recruiting agency which was originally part of Management Recruiters where she was a Pacesetter for 18 out of 20 years.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [1:25] Jennifer shares her background - shifting from a successful pharmaceutical career into recruiting. [3:40] Building a salesforce of 109 staff in five months - hear takeaways on how Jennifer’s team of three people pulled that off. Discussion key pointers: [8:00] Approach to candidate relations [14:15] Keeping the team motivated [15:33] Hiring and interviewing processes [17:09] Challenges that the team had to overcome [26:25] Dealing with HR and best practices on how to engage with all key decision-makers. [28:30] When to walk away from the business. [29:22] Differentiation - Jennifer explains an AI tool that is a great differentiator in the industry. [32:20] Planning process tips as shared by an MRI Pacesetter (18 out of 20 years.) [39:30] Cold calling best practices. [43:10] Jennifer shares her challenges and proactive approach to deal with the current pandemic and the 2007/8 recession.

    Delivering on a Tall Order: Making 109 Placements in 5 Months with a Team of 3 Recruiters

    How do you build a sales team of 109 people in five months with a team of only three recruiters? Jennifer explains in detail how they were able to pull it off. After sharing her story, there are the key takeaways that I heard:

    Nurturing the right connections and being there for the candidate - becoming a “good sounding board.” Team collaboration and dedication - delegating and dividing tasks and working closely to ensure tasks are completed. Planning and tracking - ensuring necessary tasks and logistics are taken care of efficiently. Keeping your team committed and motivated.

    Successfully completing the tasks, they got a repeat order. Applying a similar process, Jennifer’s team was able to complete a hiring project of 20 representatives in just six weeks!

    Plan, Plan, Plan and “Make Five More!”

    Jennifer’s approach has been focused on relationship building, goal setting, and daily planning. This resulted in a very fulfilling and successful career. During her tenure at MRI, Jennifer was a Pacesetter for 18 out of 20 years and two of her team members were awarded “Rookie of the Year” in 2017 and 2018 under her leadership.

    Jennifer’s planning process plays a huge part in this success. She explains: “I personally believe that this job is not a 9 to 5 job especially when you’re a brand new recruiter. I feel like you have to plan, plan, plan, and then you have to make calls, calls, calls. Now, I realize newer people are out there and they feel like emails and text messages work. But I still feel that … the foundation is making those phone calls. At the end of the day when you feel like, ‘Oh my gosh, I’m done,” MAKE FIVE MORE.” Why the emphasis on making more calls? She added, “I just think it works. And always, that last call of the day is always the best call.”

    Jennifer Poloni Bio and Contact Info

    Jennifer started her career as a Pharma Sales Representative and moved up the ranks to a Sales Manager and has been an executive recruiter for 21 years. Since 1999, she has worked as a recruiter in marketing and market research for pharmaceutical and biotech companies. Jennifer also won several awards for top recruiter performance while being part of MRINetwork, and continue to remain a leader across the executive recruiting industry. She is the owner of Cascadia Search Group based in Washington and also a member of the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of Industry-Leading recruiters in North America.

    Jennifer on LinkedIn Cascadia Search Group on LinkedIn Cascadia Search Group website link Cascadia Search Group on Facebook

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Tyler Frisbie on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Loxo AI website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #39 7 Years to 7 Figures: From Rookie Recruiter to Million Dollar Biller, with Tyler Frisbie

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • As we begin a new year, are we justified in feeling hopeful and cautiously optimistic about the market? Where do we go from here as a recruitment industry? What are the trends, challenges, threats and opportunities?

    To answer these questions, I invited Neil Carberry to share his perspective as the CEO of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation (REC). Neil’s role gives him a unique vantage point to provide insights on the recruitment industry especially on what the future looks like for recruiters.

    The REC (Recruitment and Employment Confederation) is the leading membership organization for recruitment/staffing firms and individual recruiters in the United Kingdom. With a massive membership of around 3,300 companies and 10,000 individuals, the REC publishes industry analysis on a regular basis, including their Annual Recruitment Industry Trends Survey. This means that Neil’s insights are grounded in empirical research combined with anecdotal evidence based on hundreds of conversations with recruitment business owners.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [3:35] Neil shares his insights on where we are now as an industry and what the future looks like for recruiters in 2021. [10:28] A big challenge for our industry is making a VALUE based, rather than a price based, argument for what we do [11:10] Recruitment industry trends; how recruiters can deliver more value as the labour market recovers. [14:45] Delivering more value - Neil shared a really good story on how one of their members added real value to an employer and its employees. [20:30] Current practices and innovations that are being driven in our industry. [25:30] Improving client relations: What advice would Neil give to REC members on helping our clients? [31:05] How we can recruiters rethink service offerings and stay relevant. [42:01] What’s the biggest challenge Neil faced recently in his career? [46:50] Both Mark and Neil love running - here’s why... [48:00] Battling with impostor syndrome and self-doubt.

    “A Genuine Professional Service”

    Discussing the real value that the industry brings to the economy, Neil highlights why recruitment is highly different from other sectors and industries and why we should be proud of what we do. He also mentioned a few aspects that also enables a recruitment business to provide a genuine professional service versus just being a transactional and price-driven type of business.

    Helping the client to get it right (the wrong hire can cost a client/business hundreds of thousands of pounds) Recruitment plays a vital role in employees’ long term goals Providing advice and having deep client relationships Leading the way on diversity and inclusion.

    As this is easier said than done, hear real-life examples shared by Neil on how this can happen and how it changes people’s lives. To conclude this part of our conversation, Neil said that “I think we should be really proud of what we do as an industry. I think it is easy to hide away or incorrectly compare recruitment to other sectors. We change lives.”

    Thoughts on Resilience, Challenges, and Kindness

    When Neil and I discussed resilience, I had to ask Neil to talk about one of the biggest challenges he had to face in his career. Neil revealed, “You know when we talk about working at home? My experience in spring was not that. It was living at work. I know many, particularly recruitment business owners and operators who have felt the same. I think I had about 4 days off since March 12th.”

    Neil added, “But I think the thing that I learned... is we all have a fuel tank and we need to remember that sometimes it’s pretty close to empty. So I think making sure taking time for self-care, even when it feels like there are 101 urgent things… Getting a sense of what’s important… Making sure that we’re carving out thinking time, actively throwing stuff off the back of the lorry that doesn’t need to be on the lorry … I think increasingly focusing on human relations as well because we are not seeing people everyday… We are, after all, human beings and kindness is the first thing we should start with. Kindness to ourselves, and kindness to each other.” Very valuable insights indeed!

    NB - a “lorry” is a truck, for those listening outside the UK :)

    Neil Carberry Bio and Contact Info

    Neil Carberry was appointed as Chief Executive of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation in June 2018 has been managing director at the Confederation of British Industry. In 1999, Neil began his career in recruitment working for executive search firm Fraser Watson before doing a post-graduate degree in Human Resources at the London School of Economics and joining the CBI in 2004. He is a member of the council of the conciliation service ACAS and of the Low Pay Commission where he helps guide pay policy in the UK. He is also the chair of a small primary academy trust in Oxfordshire.

    Neil on LinkedIn Recruitment & Employment Confederation website Neil on Twitter @RECNeil

    Connect with Mark Whitby

    Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #3 The 4 Qualities of The World’s Top Recruitment Leaders, with Doug Bugie

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  • If you had the chance to speak with a highly experienced and successful investor about scaling your recruitment businesses, what questions would you ask?

    In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, I had the opportunity to interview Abid Hamid, the Group CEO of Recruitment Entrepreneur - one of the most successful investors in start-ups and scaling recruitment businesses. Since 2014, they’ve invested in over 30 talented founders, enabling those founders to launch and scale successful business ventures. The group has annual revenues of £45m and is growing at 140% per annum.

    From his vantage point, Abid has tremendous insight into why a small minority of recruitment businesses are able to scale successfully and outperform the market. I asked him, “What are you looking for in a founder that then determines whether or not you will invest in them?” Hear his response to this question and all the other insightful answers to topics covering scaling your recruitment business, embracing the new normal and reality, people management, and adapting to technology.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [4:49] How has the pandemic affected Recruitment Entrepreneur's portfolio companies? [8:00] The new reality: hours contract versus an output contract - would you consider this setup? [11:40] Three examples of businesses that displayed outstanding resilience during the pandemic and what we can learn from them. [18:35] As an investor, what are the qualities Recruitment Entrepreneur is looking for in a founder that determines whether or not he will invest in them? [23:15] Deal breakers - what factors would lead Recruitment Entrepreneur to decide not to invest in a start-up or scaling recruitment business? [26:17] An investor’s insight: What challenges and opportunities await recruiters in 2021 and beyond? [33:50] Abid’s philosophy on people management and business success [44:00] How to onboard, train and manage remote recruiters - Abid’s advice on mastering recruitment one building block at a time.

    Embracing the New Reality

    Having multiple business portfolios, Abid has a great vantage point on how companies should embrace the new reality after the pandemic. One of the changes he is advocating for is looking at an output contract rather than the hour’s contract. He explained, “I think leadership should change its concept that nine to five is what people do. The hours contract, 40-hour contract, 30-hour contract, I think it’s a thing of the past. What you should have is an output contract.” Although this may appear counter with the way businesses have been running in the last 20 years, he laid out valid points on why this makes sense. Would you consider an output-driven contract versus an hour’s contract setup?

    “Who makes the cut?”

    In the last four years, Recruitment Entrepreneur has invested in 30 founders running 22 different businesses. However, that’s a small percentage of the enquiries they receive. In the last 12 months alone, they received 700 business plans from aspiring entrepreneurs and did deals with less than 1% of them.

    I asked: “What are you looking for in a founder that then determines whether or not you will invest in them?”

    Abid told me “Number one, it’s the individual. Why are you sitting here? What have you got in your head that you want to create?” Abid used the analogy of building your dream house and how it translates into a founder’s vision for building a business. Abid then described their process for screening a potential business partner.

    People Management - a very Delicate Balance

    As obvious as it sounds, people management is a critical part of business success. Abid actually described it as “a very delicate balance of allowing your people to flourish within certain parameters.” He also elaborated on leadership and how to mentor and guide people. Some great examples that he gave are:

    An experienced leader is someone who made a lot of mistakes. The balance is managing your people so that they can avoid the mistakes that you can probably see but they can’t. Being clear with your new-joiner on their plan from day one. Allowing your people to have a clear vision of your business. Involve your people in the objectives that you as a leader are trying to achieve. Vision leads to strategy, strategy leads to actions.

    Abid Hamid Bio and Contact Info

    Abid is trained as a lawyer, worked in corporate banking, and has been in the recruitment sector for the last 20 years mainly in management and leadership roles. He had worked globally within the recruitment sector and a highly experienced business leader with a wealth of experience in various industry sectors and difficult geographies around the world. Abid had held various board positions from start-up to FTSE 250 Listed company and is currently Chairman and NED for 19 companies.

    Abid on LinkedIn Recruitment Entrepreneur website link Recruitment Entrepreneur on LinkedIn Recruitment Entrepreneur on Facebook Recruitment Entrepreneur on Instagram Recruitment Entrepreneur on Twitter @RecEntrepreneur

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Doug Bugie on LinkedIn Armed Forces Covenant website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #3 The 4 Qualities of The World’s Top Recruitment Leaders, with Doug Bugie

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  • If you have ambitions to scale your recruiting and staffing business, then developing your company culture needs to be one of your top priorities.

    On The Resilient Recruiter podcast, I’ve interviewed many founders of fast-growing recruitment companies and they all agree on the importance of creating the right culture. But what does that really mean and how do we achieve it?

    “Nine out of ten companies do not have a strong functional culture.”

    My special guest, Bretton Putter of CultureGene explains what makes a company culture strong and functional and why it should matter to you as a recruitment business owner. Brett also explains how to address a degrading company culture environment, especially in this challenging time of the pandemic where most employees are forced to work remotely.

    Brett is an expert on company culture development. He is the founder and CEO of CultureGene, a Culture Leadership Platform helping high-growth companies build strong, functional cultures.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [1:25] What is company culture and why it is important for growth companies? [3:35] Codifying the culture development process - what it means. [8:28] Why invest time to be intentional on your culture versus just having one by default? [13:30] “There is no right or wrong culture, it is either strong and functional or weak and dysfunctional” What makes a culture functional? [21:55] Hear the initial steps you should take when starting the culture development journey. [32:55] Why it is impossible to hire based on “culture fit” and why you should hire for values instead. [35:49] How to address degrading company culture in a remote environment. [42:20] Brett talks about one of the most challenging experiences he has to overcome. [48:30] Brett tells the story of having lunch with Nelson Mandela.

    “The way we do things right here”

    Our conversation started off with how Brett would define “company culture.” He gave a straightforward response, “My definition, or the definition I like of company culture, is the way we do things around here. Which is like an all-encompassing thing, but that is deliberate. Because company culture really is the DNA of your organization and it drives everything.”

    Brett also raised very two important points when talking about its importance.

    Where we are and how our company is adapting around this time of the pandemic is really driven by our culture. The most important thing we have to think about is that your company culture is degrading over time in most cases.

    Listen to the whole conversation as Brett and I drill down further on these key points.

    Invest Time to Design Your Culture

    If you are a small startup, you might have hesitations about investing time to design and codify your culture. Why does it make sense to not just settle for a default culture and way of working and be proactive in designing your company culture? After doing deep-dive interviews with 50+ leaders who took it upon themselves to build a functional culture, Brett mentioned a number of solid benefits. Some of the payoffs that were mentioned are:

    Quoting David Cummings, “Company culture is the one sustainable competitive advantage that you have complete control over.” The glue to your team is your company culture - without it, you will not get the right behaviors. It helps you attract better talent. Among other things, having a functional culture can help your company out-position others that do not.

    The CEO Must Get It

    Taking the culture-building journey starts with the most important step: the CEO must get it. Culture starts from the top and trickles down below. Brett discussed the critical parts of creating a functional and strong culture:

    Define your values. This involves understanding two things: What the actual current culture is? What is the aspirational culture? Define the expected behaviours against your values. This involves being really clear with how the members should interpret these values.

    Listen to how Brett illustrates the above critical points as well as their practical application.

    Bretton Putter Bio and Contact Info

    Prior to founding CultureGene Brett ran an international executive search firm working with high-growth tech companies to expand their senior executive teams in Europe and the US. His first book Culture Decks Decoded was published in 2018 and his second book, Own Your Culture: How to Define, Embed and Manage your Company Culture was published in September 2020. He writes a popular blog on culture-driven companies and is a sought-after speaker.

    Brett on LinkedIn Brett on Twitter @BrettonPutter CultureGene website link: https://www.culturegene.ai/ CultureGene on Facebook

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Own Your Culture, by Bretton Putter Culture Decks Decoded, by Bretton Putter Delivering Happiness, by Tony Hsieh Edgar Schein on LinkedIn David Cummings company culture blog page Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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  • Imagine having total freedom to run your recruitment business from anywhere. Instead of postponing your dreams of travel and adventure until retirement, what if you could create the ultimate lifestyle business and live life on your terms?

    That’s what Jordan Rayboy set out to do in 2006 when he launched his search firm, Rayboy Insider Search. When he went out on his own, Jordan had a non-compete agreement with a 200-mile radius. He got around it by getting an RV and running his business from the road.

    Since then he’s billed millions in placement fees by leveraging technology and managing a virtual team way before Covid-19 forced the world to embrace remote working.

    In this episode, Jordan shares his inspiring and practical advice on planning, productivity, and the importance of having a peer group. Plus how he manages a remote team working across different time zones.

    Jordan’s a popular speaker at recruiting conferences and has been interviewed many times. What’s unique and special about this interview is that Jordan speaks publicly for the first time since the pandemic started about his own struggles with mental health in 2020.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [2:43] Jordan speaks up about mental health and shares his recent struggles [19:14] What inspired Jordan to get an RV and take his business on the road? [27:26] The power of the peer group [35:20] How Jordan leverages virtual teams to maximize production [41:20] Jordan’s insights from having managing remote teams since 2007 [45:45] Power Planning - hear how a million-dollar biller plans their day

    Mental Health During the Pandemic

    Recruiting can be stressful at the best of times. During the pandemic, most people’s stress levels have gone through the roof. It’s no wonder there’s been a rise in anxiety and depression around the world. In this interview, Jordan shares his own struggles with mental health coinciding with the onset of the pandemic.

    Jordan’s courage in speaking openly about his dark times is remarkable. “I’ve been struggling lately. It's not that I've been struggling in billing… I have just been struggling on the mental health part. Probably just reading way too much bad news, believing all the fear that I’ve been feeding into my mind” said Jordan.

    He said he was willing to proceed with the podcast in case by sharing his story it could help others who are going through tough times to know they’re not alone. Fortunately, things are slowly starting to get better.

    Jordan shared, “I kinda feel like I'm turning a corner. Just in the past couple of days, I talked to my good buddy Monte Merz … I was talking about some of these things and he asked if I want to be part of their touchdown club. It’s like you got a point every day for working out... and you get a point every day if you don’t drink or smoke. And so the goal is to get seven points a week… I just started yesterday after I talked to him. I got out on my bike, didn’t drink anything yesterday, woke up at 5am this morning, got on my trainer bike inside… and I’m doing it, I got 3 points on the board. Just like that, I already feel more empowered because I am making better choices.”

    If there are takeaways from our conversation on the subject of mental health, here they are:

    Self-awareness and having the courage to admit if you are not OK. Talk it out with a family member, friend, or someone you trust. News cleanse - stay away from dwelling too much on negative news. Read or listen to inspirational materials (Jordan shared a life-changing book we both read). Do not be afraid or embarrassed to speak to your doctor and seek professional help.

    The Power of the Peer Group

    According to Jordan, you need to surround yourself with the right peer group -- people who will have a positive influence on you and push you to get outside your comfort zone. He said, “It is kind of easy when you are all by yourself to lower your standards and allow yourself to say, ‘hey I am comfortable I have everything I need’… It is really easy to settle into that comfort zone.”

    Jordan concluded, “The power of the peer group - if you are struggling, surround yourself with other badasses who are living a higher quality of life. If you want to get stronger, work out in the gym with someone stronger than you. When I was getting faster and fitter on my bike because I was getting on group rides with people who are faster and fitter than me. You run with a higher level peer group, it is going to force you to grow.” Very well-said indeed.

    Planning and Success

    Jordan is an advocate for what he terms “Power Planning.” Part of his success in getting his business mobile while managing a virtual team in different time zones is attributed to how he plans and his focus in executing such plans.

    “Force yourself to execute on your plans, and see the results. That success will reinforce the habit.”

    Jordan Rayboy Bio and Contact Info

    Jordan Rayboy believes life is short, so play hard! He began recruiting in 2000 after his sophomore year of college. Six years later, he struck out on his own, forming Rayboy Insider Search. Being an impatient type-A recruiter, Jordan long ago abandoned the deferred life plan (slave, save, retire). By building an effective virtual team & leveraging technology, Jordan has run his search firm since 2006 while traveling in a tour-bus RV with his wife Jeska. They’ve raised three dogs along the way, which prepared them (kinda) for traveling with their two young children – Ryder and Hunter. They’ve covered the majority of the US and Canada during their adventure while living their dream every day (as long as the RV works).

    Jordan is a 3-time Regional AE of the Year and 3 time national top-10 AE at MRI.

    Jordan on LinkedIn Jordan on Twitter @jordanrayboy Rayboy Insider Search website link: https://rayboyis.com/ Rayboy IS on Facebook Rayboy IS on Instagram Rayboy IS on Youtube A cause Jordan supports: Operation Underground Railroad - saves children from human trafficking. https://ourrescue.org/

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn Joe Rice on LinkedIn Monte Merz on LinkedIn Atomic Habits by James Clear Untethered Soul by Michael Singer The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferris The Pinnacle Society website link: https://pinnaclesociety.org/ Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR #35 Inner Grit: The Traits of a Big Biller, with Jeremy Sisemore

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  • The only constant in this world is change. This certainly applies to the recruitment business - in order to succeed, you must continually evolve. How have you adapted your recruiting practice to recent changes in the market?

    In this episode, you’ll hear how Cameron Boyd and his firm are adapting to this challenging new environment by doing things differently. They have introduced a flat fee structure to bring greater objectivity to the executive search process. They’re also challenging the status quo with regard to recruiter compensation by getting rid of their commission scheme. Listen in as Cameron explains why he believes the new model aligns the interests of the individual, the firm and the clients they serve.

    Cameron is a partner at Smith and Wilkinson and is a 15-year veteran of the executive search industry. Cameron serves financial services companies in the eastern United States and has completed over 250 key leadership searches. As his firm’s second-largest shareholder, Cameron has been instrumental in growing the revenue by over 600% over the last ten years.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [3:30] Shifting from contingency transactional model to a real client partnership on a retained basis - hear how Cameron achieved this transformation. [9:45] The theme of objectivity and fee structure - how to sell your candidates in a way that is beneficial to your client. [16:52] From contingency to retained shift - Cameron reveals details on the transition. [19:34] Money-back guarantee? Hear how this approach can work to protect your brand. [24:37] Listen to Cameron’s biggest challenge in his recruitment career and how he treats this as an opportunity. [30:37] Doing things differently in this challenging new environment - how to win new businesses. [35:11] Taking away the commission? A very interesting but unusual approach to compensation. [45:25] What advice would you give to someone shifting from contingency to retained? Hear Cameron’s thoughts. [53:00] Discussion about exercising, running, and managing mental health.

    Objectivity and a Flat Fee Structure

    In order to serve your clients’ best interests, Cameron firmly believes that objectivity plays a significant part. This is how he explains his concept of objectivity:

    “By nature, when one candidate has a fee or different fee or no fee attached to his head than this candidate, then all objectivity goes out the window regardless of how hard we all try. Regardless of how hard the headhunter or client tries to keep in mind who is the best candidate, if one’s gonna cost you 50 grand higher or one’s gonna cost you 25 or zero to higher, you are going to take that into your calculation. So out of the window goes the idea that we are all in the same team trying to figure out who is the best fit for this role.”

    In line with his concept of objectivity, Cameron believes that a flat fee structure works best: “A fee structure that allows for the headhunter to be paid regardless of who is hired, his interest is on the same side as the client.”

    Turning a Challenge into an Opportunity

    The Coronavirus pandemic has brought about unprecedented challenges for most recruitment business owners, including Cameron who said, “this is my second recession.” But rather than thinking of the recession as a challenge, Cameron chooses to regard it as an opportunity. He explains, “recessions give you time to think more strategically, contemplate where you want to grow or practice, what talent you should further cultivate.”

    However, Cameron acknowledges that he’s in a very fortunate position in that he’s been financially prudent during the good years. His advice to young recruiters: “Save your money. I think it allows you to make a more objective view of the search. If you are not living or dying by the next commission check, you are gonna be more objective with your clients.”

    Staying Sharp and Avoiding Complacency

    The more successful you become, the more challenging it becomes to avoid becoming complacent. He offers three specific tips that have helped him to stay sharp and may work for you as well. Firstly, focus on the why. Cameron says he “keeps a family picture of my wife and my boys” on his desk. Second, seek out opportunities to push yourself outside your comfort zone. Finally, don’t get too comfortable and rely on repeat business from your established client base. Instead, continue to make marketing calls to the organizations who do not know you.

    Cameron Boyd Bio and Contact Info

    Cameron Boyd is a 15-year veteran of the executive search industry. Cameron spent the first 5 years of his search career with a franchise office of Sanford Rose Associates, recruiting attorneys for in-house legal departments and for local, regional, and national law firms. In 2010 he joined his current firm, now called Smith & Wilkinson, which at the time was a franchise of the MRI network. While affiliated with MRI, Cameron was the 2011 International Rookie Account Executive of the Year, a 5-time Top 50 Account Executive, a 2016 Top 10 Account Executive, and perennial Pacesetter. Cameron’s search practice is focused on serving financial services companies in the eastern US, primarily at the C-suite and Officer level. In his 10+ years with Smith & Wilkinson, he has completed over 250 key leadership searches in technology, operations, finance, lending, marketing, HR, wealth management, and risk management. Cameron has also personally led or played a key role in, 17 highly visible President/CEO searches. As the firm’s 2nd largest shareholder, he has been instrumental in the six-fold revenue growth that the company has enjoyed over the past decade and is a passionate supporter of their charitable giving initiatives. Cameron is a member of the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of industry-leading recruitment professionals and a graduate of Hartwick College in Oneonta, New York. He has personally volunteered with the local United Way as a member of its Organizational Development and Human Resources Committee and volunteered as a Meals on Wheels driver during the COVID pandemic. Cameron and his family live in coastal Maine and enjoy hiking, boating, and travel.

    Cameron on LinkedIn Smith and Wilkinson website link: https://www.smithandwilkinson.com/ Full Plates - A cause Cameron dearly support: https://www.fullplates.org/

    People and Resources Mentioned

    The Pinnacle Society website link Rich Rosen on LinkedIn Paul Hallam on LinkedIn Nathan Francis on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcasts You Might Enjoy TRR #6 Habits of a Million-Dollar Biller, with Rich Rosen TRR #31 Protecting Your Team’s Mental Health While Scaling Your Search Business, with Paul Hallam

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  • Imagine this - you’ve worked really hard to deliver talent for your client’s urgent requirement. It was a tough spec but you found the perfect candidate. You managed to contact them, get them interested in the job, conduct a full screening interview, and submit the candidate's CV. Sadly your client changed their mind. They would not be hiring the candidate you’ve introduced, therefore no placement fee unfortunately. But after some time, you discovered that they’ve actually hired the candidate. Sound familiar?

    Yes, backdoor hires can be frustrating to you as a recruiter or a recruitment business owner. Today’s episode actually deals with this dilemma as our special guest, Barry Cullen, offers very practical advice and solutions to prevent, detect, and recover losses resulting from fee disputes and backdoor hires.

    Barry is the Founder and Director of introPROTECT, a London based law firm who are experts in backdoor hire and fee disputes. Barry has a unique and interesting background. Prior to training as a solicitor, he started his career as a recruiter.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [0:55] Barry’s unique background and “history of failures” leading him to where he is now. [14:25] From a solicitor’s perspective - the pandemic’s impact on recruiters with clients who can’t or won’t pay their invoices. [21:26] Prevention is better than cure - 7 tips on how to prevent backdoor hires. [28:39] Sending your MPC (Most Placeable Candidate) email - what to avoid and what to include. [31:47] Barry’s take on multi-agency disputes and the right to represent. [41:20] Dealing with how the word “introduction” is commonly misunderstood in recruitment. [52:54] Barry explains the IntroPROTECT solution [54:50] In case of a business falling out with a client, what should you do first before taking the legal route? [1:01:40] If you are looking to do business internationally, what are the things you should consider from a legal perspective in case of a fee dispute?

    Law Practice and Recruitment

    What do law practitioners and recruiters have in common?

    “I came to realize actually, that being a litigator which is what I do, is basically recruitment,” Barry’s realization came about when he transitioned from being a recruiter to becoming a solicitor. He further explained, “If you are a recruiter you’ve got a candidate. If you are a litigator you’ve got a case. They are fairly similar things, right? I’m having to convince the other side, no matter how good my case is, I’ve got to convince the other side that my case is better than theirs. So a recruiter, even if their candidate is the best candidate they have for the job, they have to convince the client that they have the best person for them. So that’s very similar.”

    Of course, having multiple stakeholders, putting deals together, trying to influence people’s perception, and managing expectations are some of the things that make recruiters similar to law professionals. Barry’s experience as a recruiter enables him to marry his law expertise with the needs of his clients who are recruiters and recruitment business owners.

    What can you do to Prevent Backdoor Hires?

    Backdoor hires can happen. But there are some things within our control to protect our clients, ourselves, and our recruitment business. Here are some practical tips from Barry:

    Have your terms of business in place and have it well-drafted. Go through these terms with your client and ensure that they have explicitly agreed. Place references to your terms (ie. placing a handy URL to the terms) Do good recruitment. Don’t just send a CV out to 50,000 hiring managers. When identifying a candidate, make sure you are identifying the right people. Follow up and follow through. Get a good audit trail of everything you do.

    Sending Out an MPC Email? Don’t Send a Spec CV.

    For a lot of recruiters, sending out an MPC email is one of the most challenging arenas in getting their fee paid. What should you do to avoid this situation? As you’ve read in the subtitle, do not send a specific CV. Instead, you may want to consider Barry’s advice: “If you happen to send a CV to a hiring manager and somebody in that company ultimately hires that person, it is much harder to show that you should get paid and that can be an issue...Take the time to craft the summary. Here is a very brief summary of why this candidate is worth working with. Not enough to identify who they are, but enough to wet the whistle.”

    Essentially a summary or teaser of the candidate’s key achievements and selling point should be sufficient. And if the client is interested, then they come back and have a conversation before you send the CV. Barry added, “The really nice thing about that as well, is if that summary is going out with your terms attach, and the hiring manager then responding to you ‘Yes please send me the CV’, your terms will probably have a provision in there that requesting CVs from the agency is deemed an acceptance provision.”

    Barry Cullen Bio and Contact Info

    Barry is a solicitor, specialist in recruitment, and the founder of introPROTECT, UK's leading experts on recruitment fee disputes. With over 19 years in the recruitment industry - now as a solicitor and previously at the coal face as a recruiter and agency owner, Barry has a complete understanding of the industry, its key players, and the pressures affecting them. Barry’s personal specialism is avoiding or resolving litigation by the education of opponents so that they pay or brokerage of deals to ensure the best outcome for our recruitment clients. Preventing and successfully resolving backdoor hire, rebate, and other introduction fee disputes is where Barry really thrives. Whether advising in the background, brokering a deal directly with end clients, or enforcing through the courts, Barry’s focus is on getting the best overall outcome for clients, whether by way of payment, guaranteed future business, or both.

    IntroPROTECT website link: http://www.introprotect.com/ IntroPROTECT on LinkedIn Barry on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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  • When times are tough, many recruiters go into desperation mode. They drop their rates and work on every order they can get. Even before the pandemic, the norm in our industry has been a transactional, “CV supplier” style service in competition with multiple agencies. It’s an incredibly frustrating and demoralizing place to be.

    So how do you change your business model to retained recruitment? How can you charge a premium and persuade clients to pay you up-front? How do you work exclusively or even win MSP (Managed Service Provider) contracts?

    Well, it involves differentiating your service and shifting customer perception. That shift actually begins within your own mindset. In today’s episode, my guest Plamen Ivanoff, recommends that you start by dropping the word ‘recruiter’ from your job title!

    Plamen is the Chairman of the Executive Search and Selection firm, GrassGreener Group™, and Co-Founder of technology company, i-intro®. The i-intro® process helps Recruitment

    and Search firm owners successfully transition their businesses from the typical “CV supplier” transactional contingency recruitment to the more meaningful, retained recruitment and MSP (Managed Service Provider), consultative models. To date they have helped over 200 recruitment and search firms to generate £100 million in retained fees.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [3:19] Plamen shares his journey in the recruitment industry. [8:09] How Plamen went from pure contingent to 100% retained [17:24] Customer perception and differentiation - finding your unique value proposition. [22:08] Instead of “New Normal”, how to focus on the “New Excellent” during this pandemic [31:20] Why it will never be the same after the coronavirus crisis and what it means to your recruitment business [42:24] What is the good news for recruitment micro-businesses? [51:45] Selling points of “risk reversal” - does a 12-month replacement guarantee make business sense? [1:00:08] Why you should drop the word “recruiter” from your job title, and what to call yourself instead.

    Customer Perception and Why Differentiation Matters

    The recruitment industry is fiercely competitive at the best of times. During an economic downturn, the competition is even more intense. One major element affected is price pressure. Without differentiation and unique customer perception, there is a possibility that clients would rather go to where they get the lowest price. This can lead to the gradual erosion of placement fees. Plamen quoted REC’s (Recruitment and Employment Confederation UK) statistics which shows that last year’s market benchmark on fees is 14.7%. He believes that this year’s statistics will come down lower. He emphasized the relevance of having a unique value proposition. As Plamen said:

    “I believe this year’s statistics will drop down even further because of exactly the point that you make. Recruiters don’t have the option to compete on anything else because the perception is already set for the client… So some companies are going to market saying ‘I’ll take 12%, I’ll take 10%, just give me the job because I’ve got mouths to feed otherwise I will have to sack these recruiters...’ All of this is happening as we speak now. So this pressure on fees will be considerable. So [if] you provide a recruitment service that is a “me-too” recruitment service like everybody else, you are very likely to be feeling the pressure of fees. But if you take your service out of the “me-too” recruitment, and create what I call “me-only” recruitment, it is above and beyond.”

    Five Stages of Behavioral Shifts in Times of Crisis

    Plamen also shared five stages of behavioral shifts by business owners which is more than relevant during this economic crisis. Below is the summary:

    Overreaction / Fear - panic, business hibernating, putting people in furlough People looking for a new base or new normal - people starting to have more interaction online and start to adjust to the new normal. Hoping for good news - people start to look for good news and how they will position themselves to new opportunities Slow Recovery - more opportunities are starting to come in and early adapters build up relationships with clients. The Late Majority Arrival - those who just waited on what will just happen will pay the price. Positioning yourself to the forefront, being agile, and flexible is the key to do better.

    Navigating in these difficult times can be challenging for both large and small recruitment businesses. But as Plamen said, those that are more agile, early adapters, will have more chances of success.

    Drop the Word Recruiter From Your Title

    Plamen emphasized during our conversation the importance of being consultative to your clients rather than just being transactional. As he said, “Drop the ‘recruiter’ from your title. You need to become a talent acquisition management consultant. Management consultants are associated with improvement and value add.”

    Plamen Ivanoff Bio and Contact Info

    Plamen Ivanoff is the Executive Chairman and Co-Founder of the Executive Search and Selection firm, GrassGreener Group™, and i-intro®. The i-intro® process helps Recruitment

    and Search firm owners successfully transition their businesses from the typical “CV supplier” transactional contingency recruitment to the more meaningful, retained recruitment and MSP (Managed Service Provider), consultative models.

    i-intro® enables recruiters to deliver to their clients an unparalleled new employee retention rate of over 96% in the first year while reducing commercial downtime and

    overall cost-to-hire for employers. At the time of writing, over 1000 recruiters and 200 firms around the world have transformed their business with i-intro®, winning in excess of £100 million in retained fees.

    Plamen on LinkedIn i-intro website link The Wired Recruiter website link i-intro on Facebook i-intro on Twitter @iintro_ i-intro on Youtube i-intro on Instagram Free i-intro consultation

    Plamen’s e-Books

    Death of Contingency Recruitment - request here. Redundant? How to Future Proof Your Recruitment Business - request here. The Rewired Recruiter - How to Reinvent Yourself for a Rapidly Changing Industry - request here.

    People and Resources Mentioned

    The Shift: The Future of Work is Already Here by Lynda Gratton The Retained Recruiter Academy - Leveraging Content Marketing by Mark Whitby - request the video here. Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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  • “Our mums were best friends...” When Dan Matthews and Justin McGuire played together as children, nobody could have predicted that they would one day build a global recruitment company with offices in Amsterdam, Brisbane, Dubai, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, London, New York, Perth and Singapore.

    What makes this story even more remarkable is that as they grew up, Dan and Justin lost touch with one another but both ended up working in recruitment. By a remarkable coincidence, they both ended up recruiting in the same industry -- advertising, creative, marketing, communications and ultimately they both ended up starting their own businesses, independently of each other. Years later, living in different parts of the world, they reconnected and realized there were incredible synergies to be had by merging their business to become a truly global organization.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [1:15] Dan and Justin share their origin story - from being childhood friends to merging their recruitment businesses to form DMCG Global. [11:35] The pandemic’s impact on DMCG; how they have adapted their business model to future proof the business and accelerate growth. [17:33] The Licensee model - how Dan and Justin are giving recruiters a turn-key business opportunity to become franchisees and partners of DMCG Global. [24:25] The frustrations and challenges of growing a recruitment company that ultimately inspired Dan and Justin to create their new business model [33:10] On mental health -- Dan and Justin share their own struggles with anxiety and burnout; how Justin “hit the wall.” [41:50] How Justin has billed close to $1m this year despite a challenging market. [50:00] Diversity and Inclusion as a differentiator; the technology platform that enables clients and recruiters to source, select and hire diverse talent.

    A Radical Remodelling

    Dan explained how DMCG Global is reinventing their business to encourage peer autonomy, reduce cost and increase revenue. Instead of “employees” they have “partners” -- self-employed recruiters who are effectively running their own business with the benefit of being part of a global brand. Partners are provided with the technology, systems, back-office support and a dedicated marketing team. Plus ongoing mentoring and a peer community/support network. centralized support team including digital marketing and back-office functions, and providing a The support team enables the partners to focus only on recruitment - further motivated by an increased commission structure where they keep 60 - 80% of their billings.

    The rationale behind this change? Dan explained: “Under the new scheme, even if someone isn’t billing that much due to the pandemic, they still take home enough to get by. But at the top end, the 80% margin, that’s a lot of money. And we worked it out, our team in London and New York were making double or three times as much as they would have made on the original model.”

    Justin added, “The goal really is… we are building budding entrepreneurs. And this is a great way of them still feeling part of a family. But also being able to take away the maximum out of their earning as well. It just seems to tick all the boxes. And also, we wanted to create something that was a point of difference for our consultants ”

    Definitely an exciting and interesting model, this has been very successful for DMCG so far.

    Dealing with Anxiety and Burnout

    When talking about the greatest adversity that they have ever faced, Justin shared that recent circumstances in this period of the pandemic has caused him to feel burnout and anxiety. He admitted that this is not something that he had experienced previously. As Justin said, “Looking back at it, I think it's just a series of small things that started to build up over time.”

    How did he get through this feeling of burnout? He mentioned activities that give him a sense of normalcy and continuity. “Making sure the teams are motivated...Making sure my family was safe, secure, and happy…” He eventually felt things were going back to normal. To be open about this is truly admirable. A lot of people are going through the same situation.

    If you are a recruitment business owner or recruiter, becoming aware of this feeling of overwhelm is a good starting point. As Dan also pointed out, “As a business owner... the last six months, 9 months, has been a very challenging period for everyone on the recruitment, or anyone all over the world right now. People are dealing with it in their own way. Justin has been great in actually noticing it, recognizing that, and actually dealing with it. And now coming to the other side and talking about it, that is admirable.”

    DMCG Global Background and Contact Info

    DMCG Global is a new recruitment agency created by the Founders of Daniel Marks, MCG&Co & SEVENTWENTY. It has 10 global offices in Brisbane, Dubai, Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Amsterdam, Perth, Sydney, and Los Angeles. DMCG has global recruitment specialists for the advertising, creative, marketing, communications and technology industries.

    Co-founder Justin McGuire and Dan Matthews used to be childhood friends.

    Dan has twenty years of experience in Marketing, Advertising, Creative & Digital recruitment and has worked extensively throughout the UK, Europe, USA and Globally to deliver solutions to a broad array of leading blue-chip brands, consultancies and creative agencies.

    Justin began his professional career in London at the start of the digital boom, working in client servicing for a communications agency. He joined a headhunting firm based in London, setting up and leading the advertising and media business. Justin was then approached by a leading multi-national recruitment company and invited to relocate to Dubai. Following a thoroughly enjoyable and rewarding two years, his experience in the communication industry combined with recruitment, training, and market knowledge, positioned him to set-up his own enterprise. MCG&Co (now DMCG Global) was born in Dubai in 2010 with a single vision: to connect the best businesses with the brightest talent in the marketing, communications and digital space

    DMCG Global website link: www.dmcgglobal.com Diversely website link: www.diversely.io DMCG Global on LinkedIn DMCG Global on Facebook Justin McGuire on LinkedIn Dan Matthews on LinkedIn

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Mentioned Justin’s LinkedIn post about mental health. Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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  • Why should clients do business with you instead of your competition? What do you offer that is genuinely unique? Couldn’t your competitors make exactly the same claim? Are your prospects able to discern the difference between what you offer vs your closest competitors?

    It’s not easy to explain how your service is better in a way that is tangible and believable. Yet it’s critical that you create a “unique value proposition” if you’re going to thrive in a saturated recruitment market - especially during tough times.

    In this episode of the Resilient Recruiter, my special guests, Kevin Redman and Matt Halfpenny share their journey - the highs and lows - and discuss how they have differentiated their service from their competitors. Kevin and Matt are owners of the Property Recruitment Company, founded in 2012 with offices in London and Manchester.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [1:34] The how and why - Kevin tells the story of how he started the business in 2012. [6:57] Matt and Kevin unveil their “highs and lows” that they had to navigate through as leaders and entrepreneurs. [12:52] A vision of trying to be different and having a unique value proposition. [16:10] Kevin and Matt talk about differentiating themselves from the competition and what you can learn as a recruiter. [29:46] What it means to lead the change in recruitment instead of just catching up. [33:05] How the retained model can provide more options, flexibility, and a better sense of protection to your clients. [41:10] “The CV is dying” - this is a bold statement you should hear more about! [50:00] What the future holds for the property recruitment company

    “Dare to be Different”

    Early in our interview, Kevin and Matt shared the vision that they are working to achieve together. It is “daring to be different.” As Kevin puts it, “I think the biggest value in our business and in my world, personally, that resonates with me and our business is ‘dare to be different’… We got to be different. There are thousands of recruitment companies out there who all transfer people into jobs. We got to have a unique selling point. And I think it was exploring what is different.”

    Matt also added, “The first thing I wanted to do was be different in terms of the clients or sectors we operate in. We didn’t want to go, or stay in, markets that are overly saturated in my view and actually be confident in our niche.”

    Hear the different ways on how they are able to differentiate themselves from the competition and how you may be able to apply this to your own recruitment business.

    The “CV is Dying”

    While discussing how to keep up with the changes in the recruitment process, Kevin mentioned that the “CV is dying.” What exactly does he mean? Kevin said, “It is a bold statement...I just think now, in a world with a million different job titles, and really duties being fairly similar inside of these job titles, how do you tell? We talked a lot about the culture and as a recruiter the easiest thing for us is skill-matching. Look for a CV, you do XYZ in that CV, my job description says XYZ, that is a match, great! But look, your hiring decisions are motivated, it’s rarely on the skill, it’s cultural fit. Who is right for my organization? Who resonates with my values? … I think you can waste a lot of time looking at ‘CV to skill match’.” To emphasize, he also mentioned, “I think it’s dead because it lacks personality… our world is all about personality, we are service driven, particularly in the UK nation.”

    Matt added, “If you look at the CV, how many times does a hiring manager look there and go either, “Wow they’ve worked at that place, they must be great,” or “They’ve worked for this organization they must be terrible.” These very quick assumptions based on length of service, who they work for, all of that, can be mitigated, all of that risk can be reduced, by showcasing another side of them. For us that is usually a recorded Q&A, still got a bit of competency into it. Shows personality, delves into some of the values and experience.” Listen to their other insightful takes on how to remain unique and relevant in the recruitment industry.

    Property Recruitment Background and Contact Info

    Property Recruitment was initially born out of the desire  to change people’s minds about the relevance and value of recruitment agencies and that is still the key attribute to the culture within the company.   The business prides itself on being a challenger recruitment company identifying emerging property sectors and deploying their solutions and expertise in helping organizations connect with incredible talent

    The business was founded by Kevin Redman who has 12 years of recruitment experience having previously worked for  the UK's fastest growth Public Sector Recruiter then later with a Global Recruitment Agency.  Kevin has had an entrepreneurial spirit from a young age and his can-do attitude are characteristics that have been a key influence in the growth of the business

    In 2017  Matthew Halfpenny became the second equity director. Matthew was previously a Senior Director within one of the UK's largest recruitment companies with expertise in securing high volume recruitment accounts whilst managing large personnel teams. 

    Matt and Kevin are passionate believers that the traditional recruitment model will soon not be fit for purpose in the digital revolution. In line with their culture of changing mindsets, they have been early adopters of tech and made it part of the fabric of their business.

    Website link: www.propertyrecruitmentcompany.com Property Recruitment on LinkedIn

    Connect with Kevin and Matt

    Kevin on LinkedIn Matt on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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  • In this episode, I grill Doug Johnson on the secrets to his extraordinary success in recruitment. Listen in as I persuade him to reveal the strategies, skills and techniques he’s developed over the years that have enabled him to generate millions of dollars in placement fees.

    Old-school sales and recruiting techniques are coming back in vogue during the Covid-19 environment. Out of necessity, recruiters are going “back to basics” with their business development and candidate generation.

    Unfortunately, these classic skills have become something of a lost art. Especially if you started your recruitment career after 2003 (when LinkedIn was founded). Most recruiters would profit from the wisdom and insights of a veteran who developed their skills pre-LinkedIn era.

    Doug is the president of Valor Partners, an executive search firm he founded in 2002. Doug specializes in recruiting leaders in sales, marketing and strategy within enterprise software. He has a particular focus on working with and placing female leaders in tech. Over the last 20 years Doug has placed 600 high performers with companies such as SAP, Microsoft, Salesforce.com, Honeywell, GE, and numerous startups. Prior to founding Valor Partners, Doug spent six years at MRI where he was a five-time top ten account executive of the year, and two-time national account executive of the year.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [2:40] Doug’s “accidental” career in recruiting and why he wanted to quit every day for the first 3 months! [7:10] Doug shares his technique for getting referrals - a skill he developed in the pre-LinkedIn era which is just as relevant today. [11:18] Doug’s recruiting call script which is effective in opening conversations with potential candidates [19:10] How Doug went from a rookie to billing $1M two years in a row - the critical success factors. [25:24] An insightful perspective on why the “generalist is dying.” [32:20] The monumental challenge faced when he decided to go out on his own. [39:29] Doug’s take on our current market and how best to get through this. [46:15] How do you convince a client on why paying an engagement fee makes sense? [51:56] Doug’s story about summiting Mt. Kilimanjaro, and how this experience is transferable to the recruiting business.

    Doing it Old School - How to be Good at Getting Referrals

    Recalling the early years of his career that started in 1997, Doug shared the story of how they looked for referrals before LinkedIn or even before the internet was widely used in the recruitment industry.

    “Let’s also remember that way back when you and I got started, the internet was not necessarily a thing. Cell phones were not a thing. LinkedIn wasn’t even an idea. So when I started, I would have to go home at night and I would have to do my research where I had an internet connection… If I wasn’t doing my research at night, [the office] had this big thick book called Corptech and there were about three volumes of it to find companies. I had to look through and find these phone numbers and then call.”

    He added, “It wasn’t like I could flip through LinkedIn and find the next sales guy in Chicago or the marketing guy in Detroit. I couldn’t do that. So you had to get really really good at asking for referrals and networking and getting information from the people so you could maximize these phone calls.”

    Listen further as Doug revealed his secret on how to be good at getting referrals in this episode.

    Douglas Johnson Bio and Contact Info

    Doug founded Valor Partners in 2002. He has been working with enterprise software executives to identify and recruit the people who lead, build and manage top sales and marketing teams for over 20 years. His expertise is in SaaS software. His practice focuses on helping his clients with the unique challenges of building the revenue side of their businesses- sales, marketing and customer success. He has one other unique aspect to his practice; working with and placing female leaders in tech.

    "Discretion, exceptional judgment and over 20 years of industry expertise (with a heavy dose of humor and humility) allow me a network, relationships and market knowledge rivaled by very few people."

    Away from the office, Doug is a single dad with two kids, Grace and Murphy, and two dogs (Ash and Moose). He is a competitive tennis player (played in college), he runs Spartan races and is a year and a half into learning to salsa dance (so frustrating). He feels very fortunate that his career in search has allowed him the opportunity to travel the world with his kids- highlights have included reaching the summit of Kilimanjaro and watching the Northern Lights in Iceland.

    Doug on LinkedIn Valor Partners website link: https://valorpartners.com/ Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • From working in a recycling facility to becoming a million-dollar biller, my special guest Tyler Frisbie shares his inspiring story on how hard work, building sincere relationships, and staying humble helped him become a successful recruiter today.

    Tyler is a Managing Partner of Global Recruiters of McKinney (GRN), based in McKinney, Texas. He specializes in recruiting exceptional leadership talent in environmental and industrial sectors globally. Tyler launched his search firm in 2012, with no prior recruiting experience, and has become the number one office in his network.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [1:23] Tyler reveals his amazing story leading up to his recruiting career. [16:49] Tyler didn’t close a deal in the first 6 months - here’s how he stayed positive and turned things around. [21:18] Always be open to opportunities - hear how attending one event became a game-changer for Tyler’s recruitment business. [32:28] How relationships and connections enhance your brand. [40:40] Becoming selective - why you should not be afraid to say NO to business. [56:47] Memento mori - how remembering our own mortality can help us make better decisions and live a good life

    Tyler’s Journey from Garbageman to a Million Dollar Biller

    Driven by his motivation to support his family, Tyler’s story is amazing in terms of his transition from working in a recycling facility to becoming a million-dollar biller. He shared his struggles when he started working while in high school, doing several jobs while attending night school. It took him eight years to get his degree, but the challenges he overcame laid the foundation for his future success.

    Do Not be Afraid to Say No to Business

    One of Tyler’s key learnings is to eliminate the fear of saying no. “From early in my recruiting career… I say yes to everything. I wanted to get experience and I learned a lot of hard lessons in doing that. Working for cheap and working for … people that I didn’t like.” In hindsight, Tyler appreciated the value of being selective in the assignments to take on for his business.

    “There is so much power when you say no. It really shifts psychologically. I think in the minds of people you are saying no to, and in your own confidence.”

    Hear how Tyler applies the above principles especially on fee negotiation and other aspects of his recruitment business.

    Tyler Frisbie Bio and Contact Info

    Tyler is the Managing Partner of Global Recruiters of McKinney (GRN), based in McKinney, Texas. Since 2012, he has been recruiting exceptional leadership talent in environmental and industrial sectors globally. He is a member of The Pinnacle Society since 2019.

    Tyler’s route to becoming a big billing recruiter was quite unconventional. At the age of sixteen, Tyler began working the second shift at a telecommunications manufacturing plant in Dallas, Texas. One year later he took a purchasing agent position at a different manufacturing facility that specialized in-flight safety-critical parts for Boeing, LearJet, and Cessna. Shortly after being promoted to purchasing manager, Tyler realized his passion for people and took a sales position at Balcones Resources where he worked with Fortune 1000 companies in implementing creative landfill diversion strategies throughout the US.

    Through his hard work and determination, Tyler became the top sales producer and began developing his extensive professional network. During his 14 year tenure at Balcones, Tyler worked his way up to Business Development Manager and ultimately Vice President of Sales and Marketing. He gained expertise in commercial recycling/trash service, plastics recycling, electronic recycling, metals recycling, glass recycling, document destruction, product destruction, fuel technology, and various zero waste initiatives. While working full time, Tyler earned his BA in Business Management from LeTourneau University. Tyler is happily married to Heather of 23 years and they are recently empty nesters. They have two daughters - Rylee 23 & Waverly 18.

    Tyler on LinkedIn

    People and Resources Mentioned

    The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius The Pinnacle Society website link Rob Bowerman on LinkedIn Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion - Robert Cialdini Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcasts You Might Enjoy

    TRR #32 How to Build a 7-Figure Search Firm with a Small Virtual Team, with Rob Bowerman

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  • As a recruitment business owner, how do you balance internal operations while strategically generating revenue? In this episode, my special guest Kris Holmes shares fascinating insights and ideas on internal operations - from rewards and compensation, peer to peer evaluations, and culture.

    Kris is an executive recruiter and partner at the O’Connell Group, which is a leading search firm in consumer marketing and market research. She is also the best-selling author of Ignite Your Career! which is a book she launched in July 2020. Before becoming a recruiter, Kris worked for a decade in consumer marketing with companies like Johnson & Johnson and Kraft Foods. She is also a member of the Pinnacle Society which is a consortium of industry-leading recruiters in North America.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [2:19] Kris shared the biggest challenge she’s faced in her 25 year recruitment career. [14:10] Internal recruitment is a major challenge for recruiting firms - what are some best practices and KPIs? [20:06] How to manage internal operations while strategically generating revenue. [23:46] An insightful approach to rewards and compensation. [30:26] Peer to peer evaluation - effective metrics to measure performance. [33:25] The four steps O’Connell Group are taking to face the C19 challenge. [37:30] How to add new revenue streams including coaching services. [40:00] What inspired Kris to write Ignite Your Career? [44:45] The “One-Two punch” business development approach. [48:00] Stoicism - its relevance today for recruiters.

    Insights on Recruiter Compensation, Company Culture and the Power of Peer to Peer Evaluations

    In this episode, Kris was able to share insightful approaches on different aspects of managing internal operations. One of the best practices she shared is the compensation program that they implemented that effectively rewards the “superstars” or their high performing recruiters. She also shared their practice of peer to peer evaluations, on which they evaluate each other’s performance using at least 20 peer metrics! Hear this fascinating idea from Kris.

    Although the mentioned practices sound like it would create a very competitive environment, you might be surprised at how O'Connell is able to inculcate a very nurturing and supportive culture for its employees. This has fostered fantastic staff retention and enabled some of their employees to stay with them for more than 15 years.

    Game Plan to Address the Challenge of Covid19

    How does Kris plan to lead O’Connell Group through the C19 crisis successfully? This is what she said: “I’ve been doing this for 25 years. I’ve seen September 11th, I’ve seen the Financial Crisis. I have never seen anything like this that is rocking everybody to their core… But the steps we’re taking work. Our philosophy is whenever we go into these times of crises, where we cannot control the external market, we can control what we do. And so we have taken many steps.”

    Listen to the four steps that they are proactively taking that you may find also beneficial to your recruitment business. Yes, this may not be a good year, but with focus and determination, Kris was able to confidently say: “This is not gonna be a good year at all. But I think we’re gonna come out of it much stronger than when we went into it because we’ve been very strategic and focused on how we streamline, cut cost, and how we increase our capabilities going forward.”

    Kris Holmes Bio and Contact Info

    Kris Holmes is an executive recruiter and partner at O’Connell Group, a leading executive search firm in consumer marketing and market research. With more than twenty-five years of experience, she is also a member of the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of industry-leading recruiters in North America. She is also a best-selling author of Ignite Your Career! which launched in July 2020. Kris has counseled tens of thousands of candidates in setting goals and leveraging their strengths. Before shifting to recruiting, Kris worked for a decade in consumer marketing with major corporations like Johnson & Johnson, Kraft Foods, and Ralston Purina. She’s a graduate of Tufts University and has an MBA from the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern.

    Kris on LinkedIn O’Connel Group website link O’Connel Group on Facebook You can purchase the Ignite Your Career! Book here: www.igniteyourcareerbook.com

    People and Resources Mentioned

    The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius The Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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  • To thrive in tough times requires us to embrace change and make adjustments - both in terms of our business model and our mindset. In this episode, my special guest, Patricia (Tish) Conlin shares how she was able to future-proof her recruitment business and create multiple revenue streams. She also shares one of the most difficult times in her life, when she felt like she’d “hit the wall,” and the step-by-step process she used to manage her emotions, rebuild her business and ultimately reach new levels of success and fulfilment...

    Tish is President of Global Consulting Group Inc., based in Canada. She has delivered strategic Talent Solutions to build great teams for her clients for over 25 years. During that time, Tish has produced millions of dollars in fees and built an office with 20 people at its peak. Fortunately, prior to the pandemic, Tish had already moved to a remote working environment with a small team of full-time and part-time employees. In addition to running her recruiting firm, Tish is an international speaker, author, and trainer delivering educational and engaging programs to boost performance and build tomorrow's leaders.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [4:06] How and why Tish started her recruiting firm. [11:12] Hitting the wall - Tish shares the story of an especially difficult period in her life and business and how she turned things around. [17:00] Three practical tips to rebuild - changing our personal reality, micro-goal setting, and transitioning from negative emotions. [25:43] Creating multiple revenue streams by adding soft skills training - both live group training and online learning - for her corporate clients globally [31:20] The shift from contingency recruitment to a retained business model [34:45] Getting money upfront! Moving to an RPO model / winning Managed Service Agreements with two tech clients who outsource all recruiting to Tish’s firm [42:06] Why this is a great time to retool and continuously learn. [44:05] How being a blackbelt martial artist translates to the recruitment business.

    Hitting the Wall and Going Through Tough Times

    During the global recession of 2008, Tish had a very chaotic journey of not only struggling in business but also having to take care of her husband’s and mother’s health as well as caring for her two kids. Despite the difficulties and overwhelming situation, Tish took action to focus on what she can do to bring things in order. Listen to how she turned these challenges into inspiring stepping stones to success.

    Recent studies show that the key to success is more than intelligence (IQ) and emotional quotient (EQ). Adversity quotient (AQ) plays a major factor, which is defined as the ability to handle adversity, which is in other words, resilience. A recruiter’s career is full of adversity and challenges that can come from both internal and external sources.

    And a very practical tip from Tish: “When you find that you have a lot of negative emotions, you can break it down simply… your whole personality is made up of your thoughts, your feelings, and your actions. And when you take control and change those, you can really change your personality which is only your personal reality. So you can change your whole life.”

    Hear three practical tips to help you rebuild when encountering tough times - changing our personal reality, micro-goal setting, and transitioning from negative emotions.

    Practical Business Strategies During this Covid19 Pandemic - Multiple Revenue Streams, RPO model, Retained, Getting Money Upfront

    To thrive in tough times, during the pandemic, Tish made sure that effective business strategies are in place. Hear about some of the best practices she took such as using her hobby as part of her sidegig, like doing training and webinars. Amazingly, this gave her multiple revenue streams. Her expertise in emotional resilience gave her opportunities, as she puts it “I saw the burnout in the workplace… we all see that as recruiters, there is disengagement… that is when it started and the passion of how I started speaking on that but it shifted into performance and now it is moving from both to mentor and coach, all of these soft skills.”

    She also moved from contingent to retainer model, with the agreement that all leads will come through her firm. She moved to an RPO model as well, which proved to be very successful as some of her clients even signed up annually! “What I like about that model, and I think it could be useful for recruiters.. Then you’ll get their email address, you get their database, you have the flexibility working remotely.. You can be part of their internal team, and you can build really good relationships with the manager.”

    Also, hear very creative ways of charging fees to your client (depending on client’s revenues and what they will take) such as flat fee monthly, tiered based on volume, or straight hourly rate with guaranteed minimum hours per annum. This gives Trish’s client flexibility in reducing their costs while giving the recruiter stable recurring revenue streams.

    On Continuous Growth and Learning

    As you listen to my interview with Tish, it is obvious that she is someone who strongly believes in continuous improvement and learning. From being a black belt martial artist to becoming a recognized international speaker on performance and leadership, to moving from a successful recruitment career to becoming a talent expert. She encourages the same for all recruiters, especially this time of the pandemic. In her words:

    “Learning new skills all the time keeps you energized, keeps you happy. We are living beings, we need to grow just like plants. And so constantly learning and breathing and nourishing our minds are so important. I think, all recruiters, this is a great time for us to retool and learn something. It doesn’t even have to be directly related to our business… I do recommend decluttering your business and your life. Because that takes the weight off you for the next time.”

    Patricia (Tish) Conlin Bio and Contact Info

    Tish is President of Global Consulting Group Inc. and has delivered strategic Talent Solutions to build great teams for her clients ( Talent Acquisition, Leadership Training, Coaching, and Career Transition) for over 25 years. Tish's passion, energy, and professionalism have established her as an outstanding leader, mentor, and coach and earned her a nomination for a Toronto Business Leader award. Tish is an International Speaker, Author, and Trainer. She delivers educational and engaging programs to boost performance and build tomorrow's leaders. She is a Certified Emotional Intelligence Trainer, Black Belt Martial Artist, and Registered Holistic Nutritionist and speaks French, German, and some Spanish. Tish is currently working on her second book, which is about Emotional Resilience.

    Tish is a mother of two boys and an active member of her community. In her spare time, Tish loves playing soccer, being in the forest, tending her large vegetable garden, or spending time with family and friends at her cottage.

    Tish on LinkedIn Tish website link: www.tishconlin.com Global Consulting Group website link Tish on Facebook Tish on Twitter @TishConlin Tish on Instagram

    Special Offer for listeners of The Resilient Recruiter:

    Tish says, “Our Soft Skills Mastery training programs include live monthly training on 14 different core topics and she is selling them to companies all over the world. They are available as individual training products at www.tishconlin.com. For listeners of this podcast, I can offer a 20% discount code-ResilientRECRUITER25 for a limited time.”

    People and Resources Mentioned

    ABCs of Food: Boost your Energy, Confidence, and Success with the Power of Nutrition, by Patricia Conlin Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones, by James Clear How to Achieve Your Most Ambitious Goals | Stephen Duneier | TEDxTucson The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up by Marie Kondo Scott Adams podcast Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

  • Most people are afraid of failure. Especially in recruitment, we’re very focused on achievement -- making placements and hitting sales targets. We’re concerned about how we’re perceived by clients, candidates, coworkers, friends, and family. We naturally want to project an image of being a successful person.

    In reality, success is like the tip of an iceberg. Beneath the surface, success is built on a vast multitude of challenges, mistakes, failures and struggles. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, my very special guest, Nick Price, shares his perspective on why he celebrates his mistakes and downplays his successes.

    Nick is the CEO of Bright Purple Resourcing which he co-founded in 1995. They are headquartered in Edinburgh, with 25 staff specializing in placing technology change and transformation professionals. Listen to the entire episode and hear Nick share a number of critical mistakes that he made during his 25 years in business -- and why he believes those setbacks have been stepping stones to sustainable success.

    Episode Outline and Highlights

    [3:30] Nick shares his recruitment journey and the biggest challenge he dealt with as a CEO. [14:58] Nick’s perspective on business growth - and why he prefers to remain small. [18:06] A mentor’s insight on “big pitfalls” that new business owners should avoid. [27:50] What it means to stick to the core of your recruitment strategy. [30:14] Why Nick turned down a big offer to buy his business. [35:13] Hear about “Fvck Up Nights” and Nick’s views on success

    Avoid the Mistake of Not Making Mistakes

    Nick is a mentor to several founders of start-up technology businesses. When asked about what advice he can give to those aspiring to be recruitment business owners or those who are new to the industry, he believes that learning from mistakes is essential.

    In his words, “I suppose the important thing is that they make the mistakes. One of the things I am a firm believer in is if we don’t try and take those risks, we will never know.” Listen to the entire episode and hear Nick share a number of critical mistakes that he made and why he believes it is key to him successfully running his 25-year-old business.

    Why We Learn More from “Commonality of Failure”

    Nick also shared a very interesting perspective on why he’s sick and tired of hearing “success secrets” from ultra-rich entrepreneurs and self-appointed experts. “I am 59, I am not a young recruiter anymore… I still have the spark and energy when I entered this industry. But what happens when you get older is you start to realize that the people who tell you how successful they are -- and how they can afford their Ferraris and Lamborghinis and their yachts etcetera -- they never really teach you anything. You go along to a chat by some amazing guy or some amazing lady, you get super motivated. You feel invigorated.”

    “I’ve been on many of those over the years, but I never learned anything. Because their view of success isn’t the same as my view of success… The problem with trying to view success is it means different things to everybody else. So how do you teach success? That’s impossible. But one thing you can learn from is the commonality of failure.”

    Nick Price Bio and Contact Info

    Nick is the CEO of Bright Purple Resourcing which he co-founded in 1995. They are headquartered in Edinburgh, with 25 staff specializing in placing technology change and transformation professionals. Nick is someone who is deeply involved in business and community in Scotland, including industry associations, entrepreneurial groups, and charities. He is also currently working as Director of Communications of PRIMED, an information technology business, as well as a Non-Executive Director of Lifelink, a non-profit organisation supporting mental health.

    Nick on LinkedIn Nick’s email: nick.price@brightpurple.co.uk Bright Purple website link Bright Purple on Facebook Bright Purple on Twitter @BrightPurpleR PRIMED website link Life Link website link Fvck Up Nights website link

    People and Resources Mentioned

    Richard Hoon on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

    Related Podcasts You Might Enjoy

    TRR #24 Father’s Day Special: Bringing Honour Back to the Recruiting Profession, with Richard Hoon

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