Five Questions Over Coffee with Joshua Berry (ep. 94)

30 nov 2023 · It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee

Who is Joshua?

Joshua Berry is a visionary leader who is determined to fix the broken state of the workplace. With a strong belief in creating a more humane and people-positive work environment, he is committed to revolutionizing the world of work. Joshua understands that true change starts from within organizations and often seeks out leaders in strategy, innovation, growth, and human resources who share his passion for transforming the how and why of business operations. Through his book and various initiatives, Joshua aims to support these individuals in their mission to bring about positive change within their organizations.

Key Takeaways

02:10 Exploring new practices, adapting without supporting people.

04:13 Innovation hub hindered by division manager.

07:22 Daring to be naive for progress and joy.

10:26 Allow employees freedom, reap the rewards.

14:01 Impact of intangibles on bottom line ignored.

17:54 Promote and grow by building trust.

20:43 Books, openness, curiosity, inner work, progress.

23:58 Work: a space to grow people, organizations.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Stuart Webb, Joshua Berry, It's Not Rocket Science, Five Questions over coffee, author, Dare to be NIEV, CEO, Econic, conversation, workplace, broken, humane, people positive, leaders, strategy, innovation, growth, human resources, new practices, agile, DevOps, lean start up, HR standpoint, remote work, return to work, curiosity, trust, experimental, collaboration, leadership mindset, creativity, purpose of work.

SPEAKERS

Joshua Berry, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:20]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science. Five Questions over coffee. I'm delighted to be joined this afternoon by Joshua Berry. Joshua is the author of Dare to be NIEV, which is a really interesting book, and the CEO of Econic. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Joshua, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee.

Joshua Berry [00:00:39]:

Thank you, Stuart. Got my coffee, and we are ready

Stuart Webb [00:00:41]:

to rock. Yep. Yep. Yep. We are it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon for me. This is probably not what I should be drinking. I won't sleep, For the rest of the afternoon, which is normally what we like to propose. Anyway, Joshua, yeah, now welcome to, to to the podcast.

Stuart Webb [00:00:55]:

Good luck to have you here. Just, just for just for clarity, kind of, what is it that you're trying to do with Dare To Be Naive and and your work at Econic? Who who are the who are the customers you're trying to help them out? What problems do they have? What is, what is what is the sort of problem that you're helping them solve?

Joshua Berry [00:01:11]:

Sure. You know, I believe in a lot of ways, the workplace, is broken. Right? We can go long strides in making, the world of work Even more humane and more people positive. And a lot of the times, the people that we work with are leaders in strategy or innovation or growth Or human resources, I think some of those leaders who are most also passionate about shifting the how and why of their businesses. And, you know, that's that's routinely where we meet them. And a lot of what, as you mentioned with the book, that we're trying to do is to help more of those People as they are trying to shift those ways of being within their organizations.

Stuart Webb [00:01:53]:

And and, You know, come a lot of these these people would have tried things before they get around to reaching out to you. What what Things do you see them doing? What problems do you see them getting into before you're able to help them overcome those problems?

Joshua Berry [00:02:10]:

Good question, Stuart. I think there's there's a lot of people who are out there who know they need to do something different, And so you they rightly are looking at new practices for their organization. Maybe they are, Looking into using agile or or DevOps, or they're looking at lean start up or or new ways to do innovation in the organizations. Maybe from an HR standpoint, they're looking at remote work is a big example right now and return to work. They are experimenting with new ways of trying to shift how they do business. But I'd say one of the biggest Challenges, and sometimes the mistakes that they run into is not well, 2 of them, I guess, we can get into. The first one is That they realize that while they're trying to adapt to these new practices, they're not actually taking the opportunity to help those people adapt as they're trying to practice Those new things. Right? Like, the the whole idea of, you know, if if you dig into some of those practices, they're saying, We want our people to be more curious.

Joshua Berry [00:03:15]:

We want them to be more trusting. We want to be more experimental. We want a bit greater collaboration. And yet if you just pursue adopting one of those new says and just push it down to people and use a traditional approach to it, you're missing out on this amazing opportunity to also involve people in practicing those behaviors, Which you're actually hoping to get from some of those practices. So that's that's a big piece of it. I think the second one is, not also taking the opportunity to Do shifts in leadership mindset behavior. A great example is in the innovation space, trying to get people to be more creative or experimental or even spinning up innovation labs, But not investing equally in helping shift the mindset of leaders because they also need to work on those things that help create a safer space for people to innovate or, become more iterative in their decision making or or a number of those things. So they they try to get people to do new practices without starting to adapt and adopt new practices themselves.

Stuart Webb [00:04:13]:

I particularly love that last majority. I was involved some years ago in helping to set up, an innovation hub in the business and, You know, the people that I was working with incredibly enthusiastic, but there was a there was a division manager who would, Who would insist that everything that came through this innovation hub had to come through him for vetting before he was prepared to green light it to go forward for commercialisation And this attitude was basically, this is going to somehow destroy either part of my revenue stream or Something else that I that I hold is a pet project so I will just stop everything. So the Innovation Hub came up with, I think in the 3 months that we sort of started trialing this, a 106 Innovations of which one was given the green light, and it was one of those moments where I had to go to the chief executive and go, it's a brilliant idea, this innovation hub, but there is a problem. And he looked at me and said, do you know where the problem is? And I said, yes. I know where the problem is. He said, where is it? I said, it's in that office. He looked at me and went, I don't know how to solve that problem. And I went, and that's nothing I can do to help you.

Stuart Webb [00:05:20]:

You're absolutely right. The mindset is so critical, You know, the the number of chief executives would go, well, if we can just make it work, it will be fine, but I don't really wanna disturb anything that's going on around here because It will make other things problematic for me.

Joshua Berry [00:05:35]:

You you nailed it there, Stuart. We are in the middle of a fundamental Shift that is happening in the world of work and how work is done. And and what you're seeing is we've had things that worked for many decades that relied more on a command and control sort of approach. Right? Our ability to streamline and predict and forecast. And now we have tension, right, between, our ability to even predict the future or need things. And so Rightly so, the best leaders are saying, I need people to be more adaptable and agile and nimble, and, hence, they do all those practices that I was saying before. But it runs into this clash as you just said with people who are still trying to hold on to some of those vestiges of what got us to to where we are right now. And so we're in this interesting liminal space, and and I think you have to acknowledge that there are some of those beliefs about what maybe assessors for that person, maybe there's even internal things that that your former leader needs to work through to be able to get to a spot to make it okay for some of these new practices that that I think most employees and people want to bring into the world.

Stuart Webb [00:06:41]:

And and I guess this is the sort of the thrust of the book, dare to be naive, that that That you've you've recently got around to giving to the world and there's going to be a a link where people can go look at this and have a a look at, the book, which is here, at joshuaberry.com/ dare to b hyphen naive. I'll put that in the show notes for those people who didn't manage to catch you at this stage, but talk to us a little bit about, you know, the sort of advice and that you talk about in that book. And maybe give us some an insight of something we can go away and do, with that advice today to help move on some of these mindset shifts we need to do.

Joshua Berry [00:07:22]:

Yep. The idea of of daring to be naive is really about letting go of I already know everything. Right? And it's also about tapping into those things that represent not just what's reasonable, but also what feels intuitively Correct to look at, right? So back to the example that you used before of your leader, there's There's a lot of things that go into protecting ourselves and making us try to feel safe and smart and right and perfect and all of those things. And What we challenge in the book is a lot of times the beliefs that have led us to where we're at today, some of them have become limiting beliefs To what is possible for the future, and it's only until you have a shift into saying, you know what? I might be wrong, or you know what? There might be another way. And sometimes even things that might not have been thought before, that we're truly going to have progress. And so the book is about All those times where we probably self limit ourselves, we screen ourselves to present only those things that seem acceptable to the rest of the world, and how we might continue to move through that. Through some of the research and interviews that I've seen, a lot of people Fear being seen or labeled as naive, and yet that fear of being seen as naive actually prevents you from having a greater impact and greater joy in your life. Back to your question about maybe prompting for a free tool.

Joshua Berry [00:08:56]:

One of the things that we practice in the book, and you can find it on that dare to be naive.com or the or the link that you shared, is When we look at our practices, similar to the things that we talked about before, too often, we're not digging into what the beliefs are that power those practices. Right? And so there's a simple 2 by 2 matrix that we use to to help people, and and you can find it there, or you can email me afterwards if you can't find it. And, the tool is basically, what is the current practice? Let's take, for instance, work from home right now. It then challenges you to say, what are the beliefs, either known or maybe just observed or accepted, that are powering that practice. Right? And then it challenges people to talk about and reflect on what is shifting in those beliefs. Right? So so maybe it's maybe the practice is work from home, and the beliefs are a mixture. Oh, people can't be productive, or maybe they can be productive, or whatever it might be. You then create conversation either for the leader or for the team to be able to talk about how are those beliefs shifting or evolving, and then from those evolved beliefs, what are new that we can begin to experiment with.

Joshua Berry [00:10:10]:

And so being intentional about understanding how our beliefs inform our practices and having a simple process to To kind of dissect those and dig into those is, one of the things that we explore in the book through a myriad of different examples and ideas.

Stuart Webb [00:10:26]:

Brilliant. Joshua, I'm I'm I think you've you've you've really highlighted one of the things with you is pretty critical In the workplace today, which is the the the mindset should've shift. We talk about a lot about servant leadership and things like that, but, you know, leaders still have got to get their heads around Allowing people to to to to become themselves at work, can't they? One of my, one of the people I've Spent some time looking and and and talking to is a guy called John Timpson who runs A series of shops around the UK that are about shoe shops and he has only 2 rules for the people that work for him and that is Show up and look the part and put the money in the till. And that's it. You know, pretty much after that, his managers, the people that are on the front line, got Free reign to do a whole load of things, to really adapt their business practice and process in order to sort of truly serve the customer. As a result, He's grown enormously, and he has people working for him who worked for years and will never work anywhere else. Because they turn around and say, When it comes to spending money, he gives me free rein to do what I want. And, you know, so long as so long as they make a profit, and so long as he can sort of see they're making a profit, he gets out of their way as a As a a chairman of a large company, he just gets out of their way and leaves them to it.

Stuart Webb [00:11:47]:

That's a that's an attitude very few leaders have managed to grasp and put put put on in their organization. I think it's it's inspiring when I hear people like you sort of talk about some of this stuff and how to make that happen.

Joshua Berry [00:11:59]:

Yeah. You hit upon it there, Stuart. And one of the stories that I cover in the book, talks about a manufacturing facility, actually in France, that The CEO took it over, and it was a traditional manufacturing facility, right, where, time clock cards and you get penalized if you show up late. All of the materials and supplies are locked up in the closet, and you gotta go take your coupon to be able to get new supplies and materials. And, when Jean Francois showed up at that factory, he started to say, why did we design an organization that assumes Humans are wrong or bad or trying to be lazy or trying to get away with things. What would happen if we designed An organization from the opposite that assumes humankind was good, And they stripped away the controls. They stripped away a number of those things, and you know what? People started to show up earlier. They started to care about what they were doing.

Joshua Berry [00:13:02]:

Quality went up. Engagement went up. Their market share went up. There was amazing impact and a great return on that investment. And so we cover in the book that, like, it it isn't 1 or the other. We we we talked about it as 2 ROIs. You can get ripples of impact and a return on investment. And similar to what your leader, that you're just highlighting there, with the cashiers, It isn't, oh, I'm only going to do it as long as I'm gonna get these results.

Joshua Berry [00:13:33]:

We're not telling you to ignore those sorts of things, but it's amazing How many stories are out there of when you do choose to prioritize treating people as human, treating people as wanting to give something, and honoring people, that a lot of times a decent ROI also comes on the backside of that. And sometimes it's hard to have the faith or the optimism or the hope to be able push through some of that, that's the dare to be naive. Right?

Stuart Webb [00:14:01]:

It's a it's a great message, Shashank. I I I love the fact that I think One of the things that you're sort of highlighting there is that the return on investment is so often in things that are difficult to measure or or almost in those intangibles. You know, If you can reduce churn, if you can keep somebody working for your organization longer, you know, you reduce recruitment costs, you recruit Retention costs you recruit, you you reduce your your retraining costs. You get people who are better attuned to your customers, your ethos. Although it's something difficult things to measure it that people just therefore just don't measure and as a result they go, okay, well if we can't measure it, we'll ignore it And yet it has huge impact upon the bottom line. If you are constantly having to recruit team members and they're just they're there for a month or 2 and then go because they've been treated horribly, We don't measure that, but what we don't what we don't as a result, we miss out on is the is the impact that that has on the bottom line. People just turn around and go, I can't understand why it Costs us so much and yet, you know, going back to sort of a simple retail store, if if if those costs are built in, they raise the price And yet people will look around and go, I don't know what's don't know what happens, but down the road, that warehouse, everything's much cheaper. And everybody always seems to be the same.

Stuart Webb [00:15:17]:

I don't know what's going on. That's something that just is so often not measured even by HR departments who are trying to sort of find these things and work out what they are.

Joshua Berry [00:15:26]:

I think you're right, Stuart. There is definitely a concrete ROI that you can see from those good actions from retention and loyalty and Productivity, etcetera. I will throw out there, and this is probably maybe a little controversial for at least for me, 8 o'clock coffee. I wonder if sometimes even our thought of retention is maybe the wrong term. Right? Because it it sets up an organization and an employee as some as a person to be retained. Right? Stewart, I don't know your relationship status, and we don't need to get into this. But Imagine with my spouse if I went into thinking about what is my retention of my spouse. Right? Like that's From an unconditional love standpoint, like, that's probably not something that I'm going to go for.

Joshua Berry [00:16:13]:

And yet we I know it's not a perfect analogy here, but When we start to think about the act of care and concern for the people who are serving us in this organization, employees, And the consumers and people that we're serving, what would happen if we started from another standpoint instead of saying, I need to retain this person, and we said, what would I need to do to make this person want to be here? And I would be okay if they didn't. We work with a great leader of HR who said before, this this individual works in a community, has several Fortune 500 companies. She said, the future belongs to a place where I might have someone who works Down there at Union Pacific, down there at Mutual of Omaha, and some of their time over here with me. If I understand that that's how the community is going to be or even shortsighted, understand that I'm helping prepare people who go out into the community that I want to live in, why wouldn't I prioritize the growth and the deference, right, that we're able to do it? So, it's, it's it's it's a challenge that's out there. It's baked into a friend yesterday was telling me, you know, it's baked into the word the war on talent. Right? It it implies that there has to be this this tension or this otherness that happens to it. And and I think More and more successful leaders are testing the ideas that there can be a different relationship there.

Stuart Webb [00:17:39]:

Yeah. And I think we just had that comment come in that the retention is a word Jesus control. And you're right. It's it's a it's about it's about, that introduction of a lack of trust and falling back on our beliefs. And and I'll I'm Sorry, Greg. I'm sorry. I don't know who the user is. It's just doing that on mobile.

Stuart Webb [00:17:54]:

I'll find out as we get back out of this. But but, you know, I can remember In some of the companies that I've been working with, I have had words with managers when I say to them that one of the ways that I measure them as a success is if there are people that come through and get promoted and they go out into bigger roles because as far as I'm concerned, their job as a manager is to ensure that the people that They are working with their coach to go on and do better and and, you know, actually, the manager looks at you as if to say, but but I don't measure on people leaving and I go, Yeah. This this what I'm trying to do is turn around and say if that person leaves, they leave to a different part of the Company or they go and do something else. You've you've they they got a a a somebody who will be grateful to you forever for what you've done for them, And you will always be able to speak to them and go, do you have a young person that's ready for the next I'll take them. I'll move them on in exactly the way that you've been moved on, And they'll be throwing people your way and you'll get the best talent in your department because there will be people who trust you and it's back to trust. It is it is largely around getting them to trust that you really do have their best in at heart and their best interests and that Grows the entire operation, grows the organization as a whole.

Joshua Berry [00:19:09]:

That sounds like an amazing legacy, right, to be able to leave behind 100%.

Stuart Webb [00:19:14]:

So, Joshua, there must be some, book course or or program or or something which really started you down the path of of starting to think like Share that with us so that we can all go on the same journey that you've gone on.

Joshua Berry [00:19:30]:

And

Stuart Webb [00:19:30]:

with this, I'm gonna take a sip of coffee. This is gonna I'm gonna need you to call for You know,

Joshua Berry [00:19:35]:

if if any if any of my family is listening or friends who know me too much, they know I have a book problem. And So, there there is quite a bit, quite quite a number, so I I will try my best. More recent ones that have influenced some of this belief, One is, there's a couple authors. Diana Chapman is the main one that comes to mind of the book called 15 Commitments to Conscious Leadership, is is a great book that has helped me think through some of those shifts. I would say There's been a lot of inner work, that I've gone through because you do have to yourself. And so there's a number of programs whether it's been through the Purpose Guide Institute or, or other coaches, or or people that I've worked with who have really helped me start to understand What are the stories that are in my head that prevent me from entertaining so many other ideas that might be out there? So, For instance, you know, I needed to there's no such thing as a book problem. Thank you, Melissa. Melissa is ahead of me on reading books this Sure.

Joshua Berry [00:20:43]:

Anyway, so I can't claim I have a book problem, I guess. When I think about, specifically, though, the Ability to be able to, like, recommend books, I think there's so many. And I think just the act of people being open and curious And learning and wanting to try and dig into something different, I think that is what's helpful. And then as I mentioned, any programs that focus on inner work and what the stories are that you're telling yourself. You know, in our organization, we experimented with increased not only our financials, but even pay over the last couple of years. If I hadn't done some of my own inner work To understand what are my hesitations to share that as as as the owner and CEO of the company. Like, there's no way we're going to move beyond that. And so Yeah.

Joshua Berry [00:21:32]:

Any leaders who are starting to say, like, if this feels like a thing I wanna do, but all the rest of the world and everything is saying no, Spend a little bit of time doing some inner work just to truly understand what are the things you gain and what you lose by holding on to some of those beliefs that may actually be Time to sunset.

Stuart Webb [00:21:50]:

I think you're absolutely right, Jeff. In terms of in terms of that, one of the things that I did, with a guy that the company that we grew from, Well, initially, about 3 of us through to about 60 people. I basically took the entire company and I said, right. I'm gonna teach you how to read the company accounts. And, once a month on a Friday, I'm gonna stand up and talk about what's going on in the business, and you can ask me any questions you like. And I was astounded. First of all, that that I thought that the you know, I had a couple of people who turn around me go, What what what if they ask about so and so? And I go, well, I'm gonna be honest. I mean, you know, there's a problem.

Stuart Webb [00:22:28]:

They might as well know about it because they might know how to solve it. And that was exactly the attitude I got. There were people who were standing up and going, well, why are we doing that? Why are we spending money on that? We could do that. You go, okay. Fine. We can we can cut that or I've got an idea of how we could sell this and I'd go, terrific. Yeah. Let's get together and talk about exactly what we do do to turn that into a prop.

Stuart Webb [00:22:49]:

People who you would you'd imagine would never never be interested in doing such things, but, wow, the opportunity is is just, It's just it's just fantastic to take people on that journey.

Joshua Berry [00:23:02]:

I I I love that. You know, the the purpose of Econic, is truly to create the space for people to practice the behaviors that grow themselves and the organization. And you just nailed it right there. Like, I I believe that my community, for sure, my family, I know will be even greater if they get an opportunity to build their financial acumen, their business acumen, as you Jared. Right? And if we continually see that what we're doing you know, if if there was a question that I would hope you'd ask me, Stewart, it'd be, what is the purpose of work? And that was the question

Stuart Webb [00:23:36]:

I was about to get here, to get to you. We're gonna leave in now.

Joshua Berry [00:23:40]:

Swooping the tables. Swooping the tables on you, Stuart.

Stuart Webb [00:23:44]:

Leap in now because the last question I was gonna ask you, Joshua, is a is a question that I haven't yet asked you. What is it? And now you need to answer it. So No. I'm glad we got to that stage. We're not be needing to do anything more any more work.

Joshua Berry [00:23:58]:

Well, okay. What of the purpose of work? And I I truly believe in in today's world where where I think there's fewer and fewer institutions that bring people together for that growth. I think work can Begin and and continue to be a place for people to practice, right, those opportunities to grow themselves, right, and that work. Whether it's whether it's social experiences, whether it's collaboration, whether it's trust, whether it is creativity, curiosity, whether it's finding meaning. Right? There's there's really few places that we spend more time than work, and if we take the opportunity to say, You know what? All of our work, all of our projects, all the things that we're working on are not only a space to be able to grow the organization, but maybe first and foremost To help grow the people who are working through that, again, I think growth becomes an outcome of that and you have all the other great ripples of impact that happen that are beyond that. So, yeah, I I think that's that ties back to the mission, that that I'm definitely working on and, I'm excited to be able to share with everybody today, Stuart. So thank you.

Stuart Webb [00:25:13]:

Listen, Joshua. This has been a really fascinating discussion. I'm gonna I'm just gonna point out once again. You need to go check out Joshua's book, which is at joshuaberry.com/uh, dare to be naive. There with hyphens in between each of those words. Otherwise, it would just run into 1. Very You

Joshua Berry [00:25:32]:

you can also just go to dare to be naive .com. There is a

Stuart Webb [00:25:35]:

Or dare to be my e.com. So, please, go go check out Joshua's book. And, my thanks to you, Joshua, for coming and spending a few, minutes with us here. Listen. I'm just gonna just gonna wrap this up by saying if you would like to get a pre notification, we send we do one of these pretty much every Tuesday. If you'd like to get notification before the event so that you can join on the live and ask questions as you've seen, we've had comments and questions coming in during this discussion. Why don't you go to this link which is, httpscolon/linkthecompleteapproach.co.uk / news lecture. That gets you onto the mailing list.

Stuart Webb [00:26:13]:

You come out once every week with a little bit of a a blurb from me just telling you who's coming up And you can be on the LinkedIn live and watch out for that, each week and then obviously you can obviously also subscribe to the podcast and hear these when they get Issued as a podcast. Joshua, thank you so much, for your time. I'm just gonna leave the link back up. It's been a fascinating discussion. I love what you're doing with Econic, and the the book. Please, keep us informed. Let us know what's going on, and we look forward to watching the progress, in the future.

Joshua Berry [00:26:47]:

Thank you, Stuart. This has been fun. And if I had to leave you with one last thing, do you know the secret to taking good coffee on the go?

Stuart Webb [00:26:56]:

That's secret now.

Joshua Berry [00:26:57]:

It's it's not where you're going. It's where you've been.

Stuart Webb [00:27:03]:

Thank you, Joshua. Goodbye. Please take your jokes with you. I gotta I gotta get us out with a quick quick wrap up for you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Jeff Standridge (ep. 112)
24 okt· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Jeff?
Jeff Standridge is a seasoned business strategist and consultant with a strong focus on innovation and strategic growth. He is the founder of a company that serves two distinct customer segments - startups in the state of Arkansas, and larger companies worldwide. With sponsored funding from the federal and state government, he provides resources and support to startups in Arkansas. For larger companies, he helps them challenge the status quo through innovation exercises and assists in creating and implementing strategic growth plans. Standridge is dedicated to helping businesses of all sizes achieve their goals and drive success.
Key Takeaways
00:00 We serve startup and larger company markets.
03:42 Transformed insurance group achieved significant growth.
09:25 Team commitment, empowering communication, accountability, organizational agility.
13:26 Subscribe for podcast updates, transcripts, and resources.
Some free resources at https://jeffstandridge.com/free-resources
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Here's how you can bring your business to THE next level:
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It's a detailed breakdown of how you can grow your business to 7-figures in a smart and sustainable way
————————————————————————————————————————————-
Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Innovation Junkie, strategic growth, business operation, start up segment, larger companies, federal government, state government, revenue growth, profit growth, business growth, sustained growth, systematic approach, growth plan, strategic planning, cultural fit, accountability, leadership, organizational behavior, mergers and acquisitions, global operations, organizational success, corporate troubleshooting, organizational agility, business owners.
SPEAKERS
Jeff Standridge, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:22]:
Hi and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions of a coffee. Get my hand into the camera properly so you can see the 5 questions. I'm Stuart Webb, the the host, and I'm here today with Jeff Standridge. Jeff is an Innovation Junkie. He's founder of Innovation Junkie. He's helping his customers to to be more innovative and to help them to produce innovation in their businesses. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Welcome to, It's Not Rocket Science 5 of question 5 Questions Over Coffee.
Stuart Webb [00:00:54]:
Jeff, I hope you're there with a drink in front of you.
Jeff Standridge [00:00:56]:
Yes. Thank you so much, Stuart. It's great to be here today. I appreciate it.
Stuart Webb [00:01:00]:
No problem. So, Jeff, tell me a little bit about, the sort of customers you help and how you help them to be more innovative, but how you also help them to sort of, you know, standardize that as part of their business operation?
Jeff Standridge [00:01:13]:
Sure. So we we actually serve 2 different segments of of, customers. 1 is the start up segment, and and we do that in a specific geography, the state of Arkansas, within the United States because we have sponsored funding to be able to provide that, that types of resource to them, funded for federal government and the state government, to be able to provide that kinds of work. We work with larger companies, call it 5,000,000 to 500,000,000 independent of location all around the world, and we help them challenge the status quo through some very focused innovation exercises, but also to help them build out a a, strategic growth plan and implement a system around the actual execution of that plan.
Stuart Webb [00:01:59]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. And and what are the things that some of your customers I mean, let's let's look at those those people that you have to to challenge the standard, the the status quo at the moment, Jeff. What is it they tried before which which maybe hasn't worked and that you bring as a different way of thinking to them and make them, look at things in a different way?
Jeff Standridge [00:02:21]:
Well, generally, you know, everyone says they want to grow, and they either wanna grow their revenue or they wanna grow their profit or they wanna grow their cash flow. But many times, they don't have a system to actually execute on that growth. And and so that's one of the challenges is is they wanna generate sustained growth, but they don't they don't really know where to start.
Stuart Webb [00:02:43]:
Yeah. It's often a problem, isn't it? I do a a lot of that sort of work with customers as well, and, not only do they not know where to where to start, but but some of them have this belief that somehow it's it's it's magic. It just happens when it happens, and and, actually, it it it doesn't just happen when it happens. You have to be systematic about it, don't you?
Jeff Standridge [00:03:02]:
You you absolutely do have to be systematic, and and, you know, if if we're not planning for that growth, the likelihood that we're gonna be successful in spite of ourselves is not very great.
Stuart Webb [00:03:13]:
Yeah. Deliberate deliberate strategic action is is really important, isn't it?
Jeff Standridge [00:03:18]:
For sure. For sure.
Stuart Webb [00:03:20]:
And and sometimes that deliberate deliberate action is is very often sort of founded on people sort of maybe not knowing where they're going, but deciding they're gonna go somewhere anyway.
Jeff Standridge [00:03:33]:
That's right. I completely agree with you.
Stuart Webb [00:03:35]:
Can you can you give us an example of somebody you've helped to, who's been in that situation and how you've how you've helped to move them forward?
Jeff Standridge [00:03:42]:
Sure. So, worked with an insurance group, an insurance agency, and, independent agency representing multiple insurance carriers. I actually became an investor in this group. And, you know, the the organization had been in existence for over a decade, when we first started working with them, and, but they really haven't hadn't hadn't grown. They were really just paying the bills, paying the people, and continuing to kinda trade sideways, so to speak. We implemented a strategic growth system with them, and, they now have 3 locations. They're growing at double digits. They own the real estate under all three of those locations, and they also just over the course of the last, oh, I don't know, probably 2 years, they have been able to transform their employment environment such that they've got, multiple top talent in the industry coming to them saying, I wanna go to work for you.
Stuart Webb [00:04:38]:
Yeah. And that's a really important part of anybody's growth strategy, isn't it? It's having access to those people that are gonna help you to grow. They've got the behaviors that have got the got the the the the attitude. And I often think that's one of the things that as business owners, we fail to do often. We we hire for skill, whereas we should be hiring for attitude and behavior
Jeff Standridge [00:04:59]:
That's right.
Stuart Webb [00:05:00]:
And training and for skill because skill can be taught, but behaviors, attitudes can't be taught that easily.
Jeff Standridge [00:05:06]:
You know, it's interesting. Jack Welch, who who headed up GE a number of years ago, said that if you've got someone who is a cultural fit for the organization, but they're struggling to be successful, then you probably have the wrong combination of skills and job role. But if you've got someone who is successful in their job, but they're a cultural mismatch, you never should have hired them in the 1st place, and you're gonna have to get rid of them because they'll go bad at point, and they'll take a lot of people with them.
Stuart Webb [00:05:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely and and he was a he was a great he was a great thinker in that way. So, Jeff, I I know and I'm hoping that I've got this right. You've got some you've got some great resources that we can pull up on. So so talk to us a little bit about some of that free resource that we can get. And I'm gonna put the link here at the moment, and it's it's just simply your name, Jeff standridge.com/freehyphenresources. To to tell us a little bit about what we can Yeah.
Jeff Standridge [00:06:00]:
So we've
Stuart Webb [00:06:00]:
got a
Jeff Standridge [00:06:00]:
get there and how
Stuart Webb [00:06:01]:
to use that.
Jeff Standridge [00:06:02]:
We've got a description of our strategic growth system there, and, and they can download the the the strategic growth system that we use with clients, that to really take them from where they are to where they ultimately wanna go. It's not just a planning document. It's an actual implementation of a system. It systematizes the execution against that strategic growth. Be glad for them to pick that up.
Stuart Webb [00:06:24]:
Terrific. Jeff, there there must have been something in terms of a a course, or or something which started you down this journey. What was that what was that that that course or that journey that actually sort of made you realize that you could help companies become more strategic about their innovation and about their growth?
Jeff Standridge [00:06:45]:
You know, years ago, I read a book by Jim Collins called Good to Great.
Stuart Webb [00:06:49]:
Oh, great book.
Jeff Standridge [00:06:51]:
That book, Good to Great, and the the rigor of the research behind that book, was really impactful to me. So I, you know, I have an, a a doctorate in in leadership and organizational behavior, and and, and so I kinda come at things a little bit academically or I used to, not so much anymore. But the the the science behind his research really, really impressed me, and, and so, I began implementing some of those things in the in the work that I do. And, over the years, it kind of evolved. You know, 25 years of doing mergers and acquisitions and running global operations, for a publicly traded US technology company in the UK, across Europe, and Asia, the Middle East, etcetera. And, you know, just I decided about 8 years ago that I'd spent the first half of my life making a living. I wanted to spend the second half making a difference, and so I stepped out on my 50th birthday to do what I do today and have it looked back one day.
Stuart Webb [00:07:50]:
That's brilliant. I love I love that. And it really takes me to what I think is probably the best and last question that I can ask you, and that is, what's the question I've currently failed to ask you to now that mess must be the burning one that you think I just need to get this out of? So what is the question that I should have asked you? And, obviously, once I've asked you that question, you really do need to answer it.
Jeff Standridge [00:08:14]:
Sure. So, you know, what are the patterns that you see in organizations that do achieve sustained strategic growth? So that's the question that that, I would say that that we should have asked. And we talked a little bit about culture a few moments ago. And one of the things I've had the privilege of doing is working with with hundreds of companies over the years. And my my colleagues and I have identified 6 specific components that organizations that do achieve sustained strategic growth demonstrate, and those components really we've organized those into a framework we call the culture of excellence. You wanna hear about them?
Stuart Webb [00:08:51]:
I certainly do. I was hoping that you were gonna say that.
Jeff Standridge [00:08:54]:
Very good. Very good. You know, it starts with strong leadership. Strong leaders, a team of strong leaders who are committed to the direction of the company, who are committed to systematizing the actual strategic growth plan that they have, and who are committed to surrounding themselves with people who are also bought into that direction. Yeah. Number 2, they ensure clarity and focus in the organization. Yeah. They know precisely where they're going, who they are, where they're going, how they're going to get there, and they make sure that their employees also understand how they contribute to that direction.
Jeff Standridge [00:09:25]:
They surround themselves with engaged and committed teammates, and and number 4 is they engage in empowering communication. Empowering communication is communication that helps people become the word empower stronger and more confident in dealing with the circumstances they're facing. So they may have to have tough conversations, but they don't stop just at tough. After they have the tough conversation, they then try to convert that conversation into helping someone feel stronger and more confident in dealing with how to move forward. The 5th element is 100% accountability. In other in other words, everyone knows what they're responsible for, and they are 100% held accountable and submit themselves to being held accountable to deliver it. And then finally, the last item, really comes from a a, comment by the great management philosopher, Mike Tyson, who said everybody has a plan until I punch him in the mouth. Organizational agility is the 6th element of a culture of excellence where an organization can be knocked down, but they can get up more times than they've been knocked to the mat.
Stuart Webb [00:10:29]:
Jeff, those are some really powerful messages there. I mean, the those six things are I absolutely identify with those. The the number of organizations that I've come across who, you know, the the leadership might wanna sort of embed a culture of of excellence, but when it comes to the accountability, they shrink away. It just destroys everything unless you have all of those 6, and I think you're absolutely right. Although, I must admit, I use a different planning, a a plan which is no no plan survives for his contact with the enemy, which I guess is what Mike Tyson is telling us.
Jeff Standridge [00:11:03]:
That's exactly right.
Stuart Webb [00:11:05]:
But, you know, it's that accountability and clarity and communication. And those are the things that I've always thought are absolutely critical to every organization. And unless you get accountability, clarity, and communication, no plan is ever gonna work and nobody's ever gonna be agile because nobody's gonna tell you something's gone wrong, and you're gonna carry on working as if everything was okay. That's the secret to organizational success, isn't it?
Jeff Standridge [00:11:29]:
It really is. And and, a lot of leaders make a mistake of assuming that clarity exists in the organization.
Stuart Webb [00:11:36]:
Yeah. They do. They do. I spent a lot of time, like you in sort of corporate troubleshooting, and nearly every organization I walked into to try and understand where things have gone wrong, somebody somewhere hadn't been clear. Somebody somewhere hadn't told somebody else what was wrong. And as a result, somebody was either not being held accountable for something or being held accountable for something where the planner drastically changed and nobody could work out what was going on. And in every single case, all that needed to start the process was for somebody to actually start the well, can we be clear about what we're trying to do? And it's those conversations which eventually lead to great growth and great innovation, isn't it?
Jeff Standridge [00:12:19]:
Yeah. I've, you know, I've seen so many times where someone came up with a great idea in an organization, and and they rallied throngs of people around that idea to try to implement it. And no one took the no one took the step to say, what's the problem we're trying to solve here, or what's the opportunity we're trying to seize? And and and if they did answer that, they didn't really try to quantify it to see if it was going to be worth the effort.
Stuart Webb [00:12:43]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, I love that. Jeff, we could and probably should spend many, many hours talking about this, but I have a feeling that, business owners need to actually just go back and reflect upon some of this. And then, obviously, they can go back to jeffstandridge.comhyphen sorry, slash free hyphen resource, resources and pull that information down to start doing that. And, obviously, we'd we'd welcome further conversations from anybody who's watching at the moment that wants to actually sort of get in and understand how that, that their organization can take advantage of some of those resources to grow. Jeff, thank you so much for spending just a few minutes with us talking us through that stuff. It's been brilliant.
Stuart Webb [00:13:26]:
I just wanna just point us towards one thing. If if you want to get on to the, the mailing list, which allows us to tell you about when we have such brilliant guests like Jeff coming up and to, to make sure that you can get the transcript that's gonna be coming out of this podcast, in the future, please go to this link, which is httpscolonforward/forward/link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. Get on to that. You will then get notification of when this comes out as a transcript. You can read some of the great stuff that Jeff's just given us. You can find out once again where that resource is and go to that resource and pull it down and read some of the great ideas that Jeff has got. Jeff, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate you spending a few minutes today, and I sincerely hope that we've got a few people out there that have rethought what they're trying to do with their business because they haven't got clarity or they're not holding somebody accountable for something which has gone wrong in the organization.
Jeff Standridge [00:14:27]:
I appreciate it, Stuart. It's been a pleasure. And if any of them wanna reach out to me, I'm very active on LinkedIn as well. So thank you so much. It's been an honor.
Stuart Webb [00:14:35]:
I will make sure that we get that LinkedIn, that LinkedIn that the LinkedIn link. Yeah. I think that's a word. Yeah. That LinkedIn link in the in the show notes. Jeff, thank you very much.
Jeff Standridge [00:14:45]:
Yes, sir. Thank you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Julie Guegan (ep. 111)
26 sep· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Julie?
Julie Guegan has spent the last two decades dedicated to understanding and promoting sophisticated collaboration. She has observed the challenges and complexities that arise when genuine collaboration is required, and has worked to navigate and overcome them. With a deep understanding of human nature and culture, Julie has led the way in finding solutions for effective collaboration, drawing on her own experiences in marriage as an example of the difficulties that can arise when multiple individuals come together. Her expertise and dedication have made her a leading figure in the field of collaboration.
Key Takeaways
00:00 20 years consulting led to founding Global Collaboration Institute.
04:33 Embrace diversity for collaborative and impactful solutions.
09:35 Revelation of nature's strength prompts relearning behavior.
11:59 Encourage collaboration, step out of comfort zone.
14:54 Avoid doubts, pioneer, and create global collaboration.
20:02 Anna awakened me to societal inferiority complex.
22:20 Julie, pursuit of dream through listening, innovation.
28:06 Julie promotes positive cultural change and collaboration.
29:48 Follow Julie, subscribe to the newsletter. Exciting guests.Valuable Free Resource or Action
Some free resources at https://tinyurl.com/3p8pnpnz
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
global collaboration, books, citizen empowerment, participatory democracy, systems dynamic theory, Global Collaboration Institute, diverse perspectives, collaboration framework, innovation, diversity, storytelling techniques, well-being, empathy, change, nature, European dream, humility, curiosity, Alfred Adler, human behavior, inferiority complex, youth, COVID-19 pandemic, meta collaboration framework, social needs, humanistic values
SPEAKERS
Julie Geugan, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:19]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee. This is my coffee which I have in front of me. I know Julie has a drink with her as well, and I'd like to welcome Julie Gegan who is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts and a recipient of 2 European Commission Awards and she's really passionate about citizen empowerment and participatory democracy and collaboration, and she's got work, which has been enriched by systems dynamic theory to do that. We're gonna have a really fascinating discussion about how she's doing this and things she's written about it. And, Julia, I'm really delighted to welcome to it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee. Thank you for making the time.
Julie Guegan [00:01:02]:
Thank you so much, Strat. And I will warn you that maybe my my dog will sparkle, with with Bobby during the conversation, but, you know, it's my dog. It's fine. And my cats my cat also may appear, so you know.
Stuart Webb [00:01:15]:
Okay. We we have had dogs. We have had cats. We have had many interruptions during these and they're always delightful. I'm always pleased to see them come in and say hello, so that's really wonderful. Judy, tell us a little bit more about, you know, the people you help in terms of the the collaborative processes and the and the the methodologies you use to to enable that.
Julie Guegan [00:01:35]:
Mhmm. Thank you so much. So over the past 20 years, I, I led the journey, to, understand the conditions for collaboration, but sophisticated collaboration. When faced with the need to collaborate, things get tricky. And we could see that over the past years when we face complex issues that require genuine collaboration. It's like we forget everything about human nature, culture, and how to navigate the complexity of collaboration. You know, just being married is difficult with 2 people. So imagine when you have more people around the table.
Julie Guegan [00:02:23]:
And so over the past 20 years, I had the great chance to contribute to the European project as a consultant and to identify, to learn from all my experience, the critical ingredients, what was needed to apply collaboration when collaboration is must needed. As an outcome of, of this, 20 years adventure, I created the Global Collaboration Institute a year ago. For this, I gathered experts from all over the globe in different disciplines, different areas, but also, ways of loving and thinking. So real diverse diversity in practice, people that don't necessarily think the same as me. And we started to, work on the basis of my findings and to elaborate a framework that can be applied in any system, any project to amplify its potential and to, make sure that the system in itself would, would be in calm, in well-being. And so having the condition to catalyze innovation. So that's the result of this work and that's the reason why I'm here today with you to explain you a little bit, what is this main outcome. It is in a book, in a vision, and I'm happy to to answer your questions, Charles, about
Stuart Webb [00:03:58]:
this. Julie, I think you said one thing there which is really critical, and that's something that I think a lot of the the people you work with have tried to do. They've tried to find ways to collaborate but as you said, sometimes you need to gather people around you who are different, who don't think the same as you and that's a critical and key aspect of of ensuring collaboration actually succeeds. What what what can you share us in terms of insights into into how that helps if people have tried collaborations or they've tried ways of sort of getting diversity, but they failed because they haven't recognized that as one of their key problems.
Julie Guegan [00:04:33]:
You you you have so many examples, you know, in our history where we embarked into main initiatives without taking the cultural diversity into account. Actually, in collaboration, diversity unites us. You don't do collaboration if you already have the answers to your question, if you already have the a position, if you prefer. So when you enter collaboration and when, in this case, we are talking about big dreams in a way. We are talking about solving the most impossible problems of our times because when collaboration is actually needed, it means that you cannot solve the problem yourself alone. So it means that the problem is too big for you. And so the dream is also too big. And that's why you have to take into account this diversity within the room because this diversity is the key to your solutions.
Julie Guegan [00:05:32]:
And what you need to, to do to embark people in this collaboration journey, taking account their different ways of thinking but also loving. Because the starting point is we all have a positive intention toward this world. We all have it. And following all my experience and my empirical research where I went as far as I could into the periphery, I started to listen attentively to our stakeholders. If we prefer if we are serious about achieving global collaboration that is empowering people all over the world to, to to to if you prefer to embrace the complex issues we face such as climate change or mobility, general, economy, any topic. You have to, equip them. You have to prepare them to the shock and the agony that diversity will represent.
Stuart Webb [00:06:38]:
I think that's a really interesting sec thing you said. It is a shock. It is not it is not easy. It's not comfortable.
Julie Guegan [00:06:47]:
It's absolutely not comfortable. But to solve our issues, I said it at the beginning, you need well-being. You need calm. Because to lead to harmony, people will need to feel calm. They will need to feel that they master. And this is why it's so important our role at the Global Collaboration Institute to equip people for sophisticated collaboration. So that in this collaboration, you won't burn out. You will feel well along the journey and you will master, and this is how you will make impossible possible.
Stuart Webb [00:07:27]:
Brilliant. Brilliant.
Julie Guegan [00:07:28]:
Because he will be like, oh, sorry. I could I told you I could talk during hours.
Stuart Webb [00:07:33]:
No. Please carry on. Please carry on.
Julie Guegan [00:07:37]:
It's just as part of my journey, I developed a number of tools and storytelling techniques and things like this, and it's very, easy for people to forget about, this diversity aspect and to get stuck when they are shocked, Right? When they are shocked by others' view on the world, and and they wait to love. It's it's it's the basis. You know? It's NLP. I I don't know if you know a little bit about NLP. Everyone is okay. That's how you start a collaboration journey. Everyone. What you need to understand is in I mean, when you need to develop is empathy.
Julie Guegan [00:08:22]:
Your ability to listen to what feels wrong. Yeah. And well, it's it's just that as part of the the storytelling techniques, I, I I I, for instance, feed people with narratives, like the narrative of the eagle. You know? The eagle that takes distance on the dream, that takes distance on the project. Because if you put too much pressure on yourself, you increase the risk of being shocked. Because the more you want a project to succeed, the more you want something impossible to become possible, the more you increase the pressure on the show on your shoulder and the less competent you will be to address it. So it's very important that people, you know, visualize themselves as animal, and I use the laws of nature because we need to complete to contemplate nature when nature shows us that it's far more complex than we thought it was because, you know, women beings, we have this inferiority complex toward nature. We always need to find the ways to control it.
Julie Guegan [00:09:35]:
And now that we are faced with this, terrible, you know, revelation that nature is stronger than us, we seem even more lost and and and it's like people lose their everything they learned. You know? They panic and, it's like we have to to relearn everything, you know, about what is a good behavior, what is wrong about our beliefs. We we are like turtles. You know, I mentioned the eagle that needs to take distance and has strategies to make sure the dream at the end of the day will work because there's no other choice. Not the change is happening. Anyway, the question is, do we want this change to be like the way we want it? Do we let this change, you know, happen without us? And I think we all have in our world the tools, the competencies, you know, everything we need to, to make the right, benevolent change happen for this world. So let's do it. You know? And that's why also when I started with my new European dream for a caring culture and innovation and and hope and faith because we've never needed more hope than today.
Julie Guegan [00:11:07]:
And this, you know, knowing that, yes, we can. Of course, we can. You know? We have everything. And and and when I started, you know, the only reason I could wake up every day with this huge dream of on my shoulder, you know, the turtle with this huge burden of this huge dream that, yes, we can do it. The only reason why I could keep going is because I knew there were people in this world like you. People in this world that have fantastic expertise, they can bring to the table so that we make happen what we thought was impossible. And so I'm I'm naming this force, if you prefer, the force for good.
Stuart Webb [00:11:59]:
Yes. Yes. Is there a is there a particular thing that you would like people to is there, you know, one piece of advice that you could leave? And I I'm gonna put up at this stage, your LinkedIn profile, which I will I will include in the in the show notes for the episode because I think it's important that people can follow what you're doing with with with your collaboration institute. But but is there one piece of advice? You talked a little bit about sort of storytelling techniques. You've talked about some of the techniques you've used to help people sort of understand how collaboration can help them move their business, their personal life forward. Is there one piece of advice that you would leave them with to enable them to sort of, today, start taking that approach, move their collaboration forward in a way which, yes, will make them uncomfortable, will help them, to to move out of their comfort zone, but will enable them to sort of move forward, that they don't need a lot of time to learn?
Julie Guegan [00:12:57]:
Mhmm. There are you have to know, I wrote, probably one article per day in, 3 years on my blog, which is now closed because it was mainly for my experience, the empirical research, to understand, as I said, the conditions for global collaboration. From there, we have this framework, structural and behavioral framework. The pillars, if you prefer, of collaboration contain 11 ingredients, and there is this behavioral framework that is the process, to move from impossible to mission possible. As part of all these these resources that that we created, I'm thinking about one very simple thing that people can do when they have so many years. So I'm thinking about 1 in particular, but There are 3 mistakes that people do when they have a big dream. The first one is, lack of humility. No.
Julie Guegan [00:14:10]:
Yep. It's, the second one is, lack of curiosity. So you say, you know, the being ignorant. You have to be like an unborn. You, when you enter collaboration, you have to forget everything you know, basically. Because if you really want to have the power of collaboration on the table, you have to forget where you come from or your beliefs or your bias or your assumptions because you need to be at the disposal of the crowd because collaboration is 1 plus 1 equals an infinite number of possibilities. But for this, you need to forget all about yourself. You need to be unborn.
Julie Guegan [00:14:54]:
The third mistake is to be overwhelmed by doubts Because along the journey, you will be like a scoot. It's a friend, Stefan Baigi, who taught me about this, that when you are pioneer and, of course, Global Collaboration Institute is pioneering a new well, it's like we open the door to next generation because we saw that the system was becoming absurd and change needed to happen whether we want it or not. And so we opened the door to make it familiar for all generations that there is a possibility that one day global collaboration will happen with a maximum of people around the globe ready, equipped to solve all the complex issues we face in all the areas because we see there is crisis after crisis The or in all the domain, in all the areas, we need to change the rules of the game. So we opened this door and we invented these frameworks. So, really, one resource I would say is to face these 3 mistakes. So lack of curiosity, lack of humility, and the the the feeling of, you know, of being overwhelmed by doubts. Contemplation contemplation, looking for the signs that you are doing the right things, Being as much as you can unborn unborn, it's it's really like the second life. You know? You when you prepared your first life, and you spend your first life preparing the second life.
Julie Guegan [00:16:45]:
So it's we need this civilization to prepare its second life. So we need to look at it like this. So far we have been quite individualistic. We have been quite self centered. You say comfort, over our comfort. We need to accept the stretching. We need to accept that we need to unlearn everything we learned because now we have a mission all together and it is to prepare a better world for the next generation.
Stuart Webb [00:17:23]:
Yes. Yes.
Julie Guegan [00:17:25]:
Does it make sense to you?
Stuart Webb [00:17:27]:
It does. It does. And and you're right that that that that often these these big initiatives don't yield results for many years, but that shouldn't put us off from actually looking for how to make that I mean, we talk about the sustainability that the world needs to adopt at the moment and there's no point in pertaining that sustainability is to benefit the people who implement the change now. It's to it's to benefit generations to come, and we need to have that ability to look long term instead of in quarters years to look in terms of decades so that people can see the approach beginning to take through in 5, 10, 15 years from now. Is there is there one, it was there one type one thing or a a series of things which brought you a a course book or experience that brought you to your understanding that these things need to be addressed and started your your thinking about this, this this this big vision about collaboration?
Julie Guegan [00:18:35]:
Yeah. Thank you for for asking this question because I I did an academic research, followed by empirical research. I mean, everything in the same time, actually. I read tons of books, because it's it's a very serious journey. You know? You don't come unequipped to a dream like this. Right? The the the key to me to the main door has been Alfred Adler. Alfred Adler was an Austrian philosopher who lived at the same time, as But, he was far less notorious. Adler.
Julie Guegan [00:19:19]:
Do you know Adler, Stuart? No. Well, you see, it's not very notorious. But when I read it and I read all his books, I got this shock because you know what he says basically, but it's awful to summarize the thoughts of someone like him. What he says is that human beings have a very deep inferiority complex toward nature. Mhmm. And this is translated by behaviors of superiority complex. We need to control nature. We don't like the unpredictability of nature, the uncertainty.
Julie Guegan [00:20:02]:
Right? And so Anna actually wake woke me up to a reality which I knew already that we had a problem with our inferiority complex that were initiated in number of behaviors inside our society. But he equips me on how to solve that main huge hurdle. It's a bit like I mean, I will I will make a parallel resume. You know, it's also when you when he tells you that the first thing you need to master is your dark side, it means you human beings, you are a bunch of monsters. So when you wake up in the morning instead of thinking that you are god, do your best to calm down the monster within you because when times become complicated, it should be your first task right in the morning. Master the devil within you because it's big and it's gonna be very big as times will gonna be tougher and tougher in particular for the western world because I think and that that's it's part of all the things I learned because because as you mentioned when you started journey with a dream like this, like Global Collaborations 3 years ago, I could not expect learning so much. Can you imagine the number of people I met from my little office at home? The conversation I had with people from all over the globe, living very different lives as me, having different dreams, etcetera, it's incredible. When when I just want everybody to join this journey now.
Stuart Webb [00:21:56]:
Yes. Yes. The passion is important. And and that leads me to my final question for you, Julie, and that is there must be one question that you think I haven't yet asked and that I should ask in order to better understand how collaboration is gonna help us all move forward. So what's the question I should have asked? And, obviously, once you've asked that question, you're the best person to answer it. So what is that question?
Julie Guegan [00:22:20]:
It's your dream, Julie. How is your dream going? You know? I shared a dream 3 years ago for it was a script I wrote for the European Commission. It was full of wisdom from coming from all my, conversation I had with people from all over the globe during 2 years, during the COVID. And, and, basically, I had to pursue the script on my own. And this is how I understood that we cannot change we cannot make the right change if we don't listen to the peripheries because it's at the center, that we find the comfort in our current system, in the status quo. So I had to go, as I say, far as far as I could in the peripheries to listen to people, to, because it is them who have the solutions to the problems that they face. You know, it it's a bit like the water crisis. You solve it with people that suffer from the water crisis and have to be innovative to find solutions, you know, to find water every day.
Stuart Webb [00:23:32]:
Yes.
Julie Guegan [00:23:34]:
And we don't do that. We don't really have this culture of going it's our end. We were saying that the solution, they lie in the periphery. We don't have this culture. So I had to do it myself. I I had to take all the risks if you prefer alone. But so how is my dream after 3 years? It's very promising. Now we are asked from leaders, worldwide leaders, to make presentation about the meta collaboration behavior and structural framework.
Julie Guegan [00:24:04]:
It's unbelievable that experts from around the globe seem to validate the framework. I mean, we spent a year focusing on, making labs, making experiments, showing the benefits of our framework in domains like education, health, activism, economy, etcetera. The the the outcomes we get surpass really surpass our expectations. Because as I said, at first, we thought we will ensure the well-being of each amplified by the collective. So we will invest in your potential to art with the meta collaboration framework, we'll add it to you and instead of having a cap on your head that makes it impossible for you to achieve a new dream, we we instead of the cap, we give you, you know, all the things you needed. The we we fill it, you know, with all the ingredients that you need to fill well, find harmony, and at the end of the day, co create. Got it. And so from there, we understood that actually that one of the benefit is to catalyze any innovation when you make a tea bag.
Julie Guegan [00:25:25]:
But you you tell me when I have to stop. But meta collaboration is basically a tea bag, and you respect the ceremony of the tea because it's very important. But you you put a tea bag in a in a in a cup of water and you see what it will happen what what will happen. You just follow. You observe. You are a researcher. You observe. And and we saw how bubbling people become.
Julie Guegan [00:25:50]:
They're they have a wall in front of them. It's impossible. We'll never get there. You put the key bag and it becomes like, how we could do that? And, yes, we were not doing that, and and it's, like, incredible. It's incredible to see. It's it's magic. Because nowadays, I think people are overwhelmed with negativity. They don't they don't have hope.
Julie Guegan [00:26:17]:
I mean and and why did I start also? Because I realized during the COVID times that the first victims to a global pandemic was our youth because we forgot, completely forgot about the social needs of our youth during this COVID time. You know? Because they don't vote. Yes. Yes. They don't vote. They they don't have a voice. And so we we we set up I mean, it's it's not as as clear as that, but I think those would what have privilege. And, this was very clear for me, during these COVID times.
Julie Guegan [00:26:55]:
And so, yes, the reason why I just couldn't hold myself, you know, and I had to open the door to my sons because we have the promise of a world that is worse. I can't accept this even one second. When I when I meet people in, my conversation in Iran, etcetera, when they tell me Europe is dead, I wanna tell them it's the opposite because it's our humanistic values. It's our humanistic values and it's, I I remember it's Emmanuel Dweiss. In one of my conversations in together, Hansan, during the COVID tag, she reminded me of this humanistic values of Europe. And and and never forget the the common values we have in Europe and and and why I think the the the promising future will come from Europe.
Stuart Webb [00:28:06]:
Julie, I think disturbing culture. Julie, we've gotta draw it on that because that I think it's a brilliant way to end this on a note which is positive, remembering that as humans, we can address these issues if we want to. So often we don't want to, so we need to we need to find ways of working with each other, supporting each other, and thinking for the future, not just for today, rather than thinking just about what we get from getting out of and we have difficulties we need to get through today, but we definitely need to get through to the future. We definitely need to collaborate in order to bring that bright future. Julie, thank you for spending a few minutes with us talking about this. It's it's a fascinating subject. I I I'm gonna I'm gonna draw it and and really encourage people, please go follow Julie at linkedin, dot com. She's Julie Guegan at 189-5a21.
Stuart Webb [00:29:03]:
You'll find her if you look for her. There's not many people out there with quite such a profile as Julie. Please follow her. Please look at some of the stuff that she's doing. She's doing some really interesting things. She has she has that blog that she's talked about. She has written a book, which
Julie Guegan [00:29:19]:
is Yeah. The blog is closed, but yeah. Sorry, Scott. I can, I can invite people to to read my book, the following one, which is the vision? It's called Europe, the Next Chapter, a story of collective innovation, and the second book is about, to get released. It's it's about all the experience we led, all over the globe with the meta collaboration framework, during the past year and what we learned about the framework.
Stuart Webb [00:29:48]:
Julie has some brilliant thoughts. Please follow her and and and look out for those books. And and and, you know, also following her, please subscribe to the newsletter so that you can get notification of when we have such fantastic hosts coming up on the podcast. If you go to, link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter, that's a link Dot the complete approach dotco.ukforward/newsletter. That will take you to a form you fill in, and you will get notified every couple of weeks with who's coming up on the podcast so that you can join in and ask questions and listen to some of the wisdom that you get from such a really interesting guest like Julie. Julie, thank you so much, for spending just a few minutes with us, and I really appreciate you giving us such such wisdom, so much, so much to pack in and I I really look forward to, catching up when that second book is out, and we'll talk more about what that book is telling us about global collaboration.
Julie Guegan [00:30:49]:
Thank you so much, Strat.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Darren Saul (ep. 110)
29 aug· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Darren?
Darren Saul is a seasoned podcaster who has found his passion in the world of podcasting. With multiple successful podcasts under his belt, Darren has established himself as a prominent figure in the industry. His belief in the power of podcasting as a marketing tool has led him to create valuable content that not only builds brand awareness but also serves as a passive means of sharing his expertise with the world. Darren's dedication to podcasting has allowed him to create a platform for himself and his work, connecting with audiences in a unique and engaging way.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Maximizing podcast content for effective marketing.
07:00 Podcast resources, courses, and free webinar available.
09:04 Traditional advertising no longer effective, turned to podcasts.
12:03 Podcasting creates diverse, reusable marketing content opportunities.
17:03 Start a podcast with a video call.
18:11 Leverage other podcasts for marketing content.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Some free resources at https://tinyurl.com/3p8pnpnz
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
podcasting, podcasters, podcasting strategy, brand awareness, marketing content, podcast monetization, podcast guests, podcast preparation, podcast marketing, podcast production, podcast promotion, podcast value, podcasting courses, podcasting resources, podcasting webinar, podcasting content, podcasting journey, podcasting advice, podcasting strategy, podcasting coach, podcasting industry, podcasting impact, podcasting audience, podcasting success, podcasting commitment, podcasting imposter syndrome, podcasting start, podcasting consistency, podcasting confidence, podcasting opportunities
SPEAKERS
Darren Saul, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:24]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 Questions Over Coffee. My name is Stuart Webb. I'm here with Darren Saul, who is, a podcaster, pretty pretty experienced at this podcast stuff. I'm fairly sure that he doesn't need any introduction from me on what we're doing. So, Darren, you're a you're a podcaster. You're a you're a strategist, trainer, coach, student of human, attention, you say. And you've started heavily utilizing the power of podcasting. So I'm really interested to hear how you're helping your clients to use podcasting and how it's making a difference in in their their business.
Stuart Webb [00:01:06]:
So welcome to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions and go for coffee. I hope you've got your coffee there in front of you. My coffee.
Darren Saul [00:01:13]:
I have to stay on brand with the show.
Stuart Webb [00:01:16]:
Good man. Good man. So, Darren, tell us, how is it that you help people, in their podcasting?
Darren Saul [00:01:23]:
You bet. So podcasting is something that's growing from strength to strength as we all know. I heard some ridiculous statistic the other day. I don't know if it's true or not. That there's more podcast than there are listeners. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's crazy. But it just goes to show you how many people are podcasting at the moment. But that's not to say that every podcast that people set up goes past episode 10.
Darren Saul [00:01:49]:
There's a lot of podcasters, but not many of them get past episode 20 or certainly not to 50 or a 100. So basically, I love podcasting, and I've just fallen in love with podcasting over the years. And so I podcast more and more. I've got 2 podcasts, but I think they're an incredible way to build brand awareness, to build, marketing material, to build content in all those different forms and to be a very indirect passive way to tell people what you do and where you work rather than a very aggressive push sales process, which is something that we all do more and more these days.
Stuart Webb [00:02:34]:
So so what is it that you see that people are doing wrong? And and and what is it that you think people are you're trying to help them to do with with the work you do, Darren?
Darren Saul [00:02:45]:
Yeah. Great. So really two things. I I tackle podcasting from both sides. So I work with podcasters to create a better podcast, deliver a better podcast, monetize their podcast, possibly if they're looking to do that, and just continue to get value and extract marketing content as well as brand awareness and business results from their podcast. But then I also work with guests to help them get podcast ready. Cause a lot of guests jump on a podcast. They're not prepared.
Darren Saul [00:03:20]:
They don't know what they're gonna be talking about. They haven't articulated their little 30 or 1 minute commercial. And then when they've done a podcast like this, they say, great, had a great show and they never do anything else. So for me, that's madness. If you do a show like this, you ask for the raw footage and then you actually start using that raw footage in your marketing material. So I'm really trying to work both sides of the podcasting equation so people can really start using podcasting as a medium, or I keep coming back to the same two things, brand awareness and marketing content. That is the power of podcasting. And then of course, all those things can continue from there.
Darren Saul [00:04:05]:
You can turn you can monetize them in so many different ways. You can, have fun. You can create new podcasts. You can get on other people's shows. You can build yourself up as a thought leader in your industry. You can get keynote speaking opportunities. I mean, you can get workshop opportunities, coaching opportunities. It goes on and on and on.
Darren Saul [00:04:26]:
But it's really those 2
Stuart Webb [00:04:28]:
things I love. And and I think it's I think you're absolutely right. Too many people do anything like this where they don't think about what their message is and and make it clear, and then they fail to I mean, most people know that you've got to repeat your message many times for people to hear it. I always worry about people who sort of sit back and wait for the results to sort of flow in rather than having a plan and following it through and actually you know, it's a it's a bit like any activity, isn't it? You've gotta know what your objective is and follow that plan rather than just sort of sitting back and going, well, why hasn't the world turned and faced towards me and sort of run at me?
Darren Saul [00:05:05]:
100%. 100%. And you brought a really good point. It's there's a lot of patience and consistency needed. If you really wanna run a good podcast, you have to just keep on pounding away with the episodes, marketing them well, and fill giving time for the audience to find you and building your your brand. You know? And people start to get used to you dropping an episode every Monday or every Tuesday or once a fortnight or once a month or whatever it is, and they'll start talking about your podcast, telling other people about it. All that stuff takes time. You can't expect to have podcast results in 2 months, and that's why a lot of people start and finish really quickly.
Stuart Webb [00:05:45]:
Brilliant. So, I'm now hopefully gonna ask you for the dead simple one, which is you must have a bunch of advice that you can give us and and and valuable, advice as well that you might wanna sort of pass on. And I know you've got a link on your website, which I'm gonna pull up here. It's it's at tinyurl.com3p8 pnpnzed, or for those of us in the US, that would be z. 3p8 p n p n zed. So, Darren, tell tell us some of the stuff that's at that link. What is it that you're trying to help people to do with that, man? Yeah.
Darren Saul [00:06:22]:
Sure. So there's a a great link there. There's lots of free resources on that link. So, for example, there's a great, PDF that you can download to help you build a podcast from a to zed. It's like my a to zed formula of podcasting. So if you're thinking about dipping your toe in the water, you're not quite sure, there's lots of information in there about the tech needed, the strategy, the little bit about the the preparation sorry, the, processing and the producing, because that's a little bit of a fine art in itself. Exactly. And then there's a lot of production and promotion, working there as well.
Darren Saul [00:07:00]:
I've got stuff for guests as well. If you a little PDF on how to be podcast ready, covering all sorts of different topics from your 32nd commercial or your your story to how to leverage your content, how to choose the right host, how to choose the right podcast, how to choose your target audience, how to choose your niche, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And I've got a few other paid resources. If anybody is interested in jumping on and learning, there's a a recorded course and a few other opportunities. There's also another webinar, a free webinar that I'm doing next week on how to monetize your podcast. So there's a 1 hour free webinar you can jump on, and we're gonna talk about 15 different strategies to how you can start thinking about monetizing your podcast. And you don't have to have a lot of podcast episodes to monetize. You just have to think in a little bit of a creative way, and there's all sorts of stuff you could do, and you can have a lot of fun as well.
Darren Saul [00:07:56]:
So lots of great resources if anybody wants to dive into the podcasting world.
Stuart Webb [00:08:00]:
That's great stuff, Darren. Thank you very much. So I've I've got a I've got a a little link going up at the moment. If anybody has any questions, put them into the chat. But but, Darren, how did you get into Pasciani? What was it? What was there a book, a course, a program? What is it that sort of made you a podcast strategist? And and and if you don't mind me describing you, I think in the very best possible way, a podcast nerd, I actually think that's the highest compliment I can pay somebody, but all those disagree with me.
Darren Saul [00:08:28]:
I love it. I'll take it. I'll take it. I love being called a podcast nerd. I love to nerd out on podcasting stuff.
Stuart Webb [00:08:34]:
Yeah. Good for you.
Darren Saul [00:08:35]:
Love it. So, yeah, good story. So I do a number of different things. I've been working as a a corporate IT recruiter, for 25 years, nearly 25 years. I've been working as a photographer for about 10 years. And about 6 years ago, I realized that the tide had changed in terms of marketing and business development. The yellow pages or we have we have the yellow pages here. I don't know what you guys have
Stuart Webb [00:09:03]:
over here. Yeah. Yeah.
Darren Saul [00:09:04]:
Yellow pages where you can advertise locally and people can find you and all that stuff. That wasn't being looked at anymore. Letter drops were being thrown in the bin. Cold calling was getting harder and harder to get in past the gatekeepers. So I started thinking about there's gotta be a better way to start marketing my business. And I stumbled onto social media, digital media, podcasting, and I thought, wow, this is amazing. So I thought, you know what? What the hell? So I started 2 podcasts right off the bat, one for my recruitment business and one for my photography business. And the recruitment business is a little bit more esoteric where I interview people about job seeking and career development and building company culture and hiring and firing and all that kind of stuff.
Darren Saul [00:09:55]:
And then I have my other one, which is what I call my variety show. I've got about over 220 something episodes where I talk about all sorts of different things from real estate to health sciences to book launches to music to mindset, entrepreneurship, business, whatever. And that's my my passion project. And since that, the birth of that and the journey, I've started wanting to really just give as much information and coach and teach other people to get the same results out of podcasting because I think it's such a great tool. And there's a little bit of a backstory, but it's been a lot of fun, and I just who knows where it's gonna lead?
Stuart Webb [00:10:36]:
That's brilliant. I think it's absolutely fantastic. So so what is it about, about podcasting therefore then that you see as being the way of sort of driving that marketing? Because, you know, it's it is once again, it's one of those things where it is it is a bit passive. So so how do you how do you what what can you do to sort of make your podcast as successful as you can?
Darren Saul [00:10:56]:
Yeah. Good. Great question. Well, I mean, that's the beauty of it in itself because it's passive. Like, I always use this analogy. If you were to look through your social media, LinkedIn and Facebook in particular, turn off the sound, just scroll down the feed. All you see are people like, like this little if you imagine my little box is one little screen, all you see is people talking to the camera with this all this animation and energy trying to sell you something. Right? So it gets a little bit much after a while.
Darren Saul [00:11:30]:
And I love podcasting because it's the exact opposite. It's me, particularly when it's with a guest. So we've got 2 of us here. We're talking to each other. It really takes the pressure off. You know? We're not we're not trying to sell you anything. We're just we're more almost inviting you in for a conversation, you know, with our coffee, rather than pushing our agenda down your throat. So it's a very indirect, curious way of attracting people rather than really aggressively promoting whatever it is that we wanna promote.
Darren Saul [00:12:03]:
So that's really number 1. But the other thing that podcasting does, and people are really starting to realize this more and more these days, it is an incredible way to create content. So if you run a podcast system and you record in video and audio form, long form, you have so much video, audio, written, graphic content that you can utilize now for your marketing on social media, on your website, in your email newsletters, in your email signature. Maybe if you wanna do letter drops, whatever the hell do you wanna do, there is that many things you can do with that content. You'll never run out of it. And it's fresh and varied because you've got a different guest every week or every 2 weeks or whatever. Then you can start bringing mash up the greatest hits within a month or, I mean, send out newsletters with your, playlist of different topics. I mean, it goes on and on and on, But it's all about getting the content in the 1st place, and a podcast system just gives you that opportunity.
Stuart Webb [00:13:14]:
That's brilliant. Darren, you know, there must be one question you're currently thinking. He hasn't asked the critical question here, and he's he's he's missed the point of this stuff. So what's the critical question I should have asked you? What is it that you are burning to sort of tell me about something? And, you know, now I've given you the opportunity to ask that question. You'll obviously have to answer it because you're the only one that actually knows the answer.
Darren Saul [00:13:37]:
Yeah. That's a really good one. And the real the question would be, if I had to ask people, why are you not starting your podcast? Everybody always is fascinated by podcast. They do podcast courses. They come to podcast workshops. And then 6 months later have you started your podcast? Oh, we're about to start. We're just talking about this. We're just talking about that.
Darren Saul [00:14:00]:
We're just finalizing this. We're finalizing that a year later. They still haven't started their podcast or they've started and done 2 episodes. I'm like, what? What's going on? Why haven't you either started or continued? And the reason is it takes work. Yeah. It takes strategy.
Stuart Webb [00:14:18]:
Yeah.
Darren Saul [00:14:19]:
And it takes commitment. But if you do it and you do it well, it is in one of the best marketing tools available. And the other reason that people stop or they don't start is, you know, I hate that term imposter syndrome, but everybody's using it. So I'll just use it because everybody knows what it is. But a lot of people think, oh, I'm not worthy of sharing my voice with the world. I'm not worthy of sharing my message. What do I who am I to start a podcast? But you look around there every Tom, Dick, and Harry has started their own show. They're talking about what they love.
Darren Saul [00:14:55]:
They're talking about what they know about, and it's now the era of giving getting away with worrying about the gatekeepers. We don't have anybody to tell us what we can and can't do. We can all have our own show. We can all have our own production, and it's all about free to air. We wanna listen to what we wanna listen to. So why the hell not? You know, if you've got something that you're burning to share with the world, and even if you're not perfect from episode 1, you're gonna get better. When I go back to my episode 1 and rewatch my first show, it's terrible. Episode 10 is terrible.
Darren Saul [00:15:34]:
But as I've been doing more and more podcasts, I get more and more confident. And you just you start to enjoy it and you learn from other people, and it's we're all learning from each other. So all I can say is if you're on the fence about podcasting, jump in, have some fun, at least try it for a couple of episodes before you worry about not doing it. And if I can leave with one great title of a book that really sums this up beautifully, there's a book, I'm trying to think of the name of the the author, but it's called Ready, Fire, Aim.
Stuart Webb [00:16:09]:
Aim. Yeah.
Darren Saul [00:16:10]:
Is it Michael Masterson? I think it's Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:16:12]:
I think it is. It is. Yeah.
Darren Saul [00:16:13]:
Instead of ready aim fire, and that sums this concept up beautifully. Start the journey, get some feedback from the audience, get some feedback from whoever it is your your viewers and, and, listeners are and tweak as you go. You don't have to have it all sorted out before you begin. It never is that way. Just not and tweak and change and have fun along the way. It's a journey.
Stuart Webb [00:16:38]:
Yeah. Brilliant. Do you know I I just wanna I just wanna add one thing to what you said, Dan, because because I think it is important. I've spoken to a number of people and invited. I hope I hope you've had a good time, which just as you said, it's been 2 2 professionals just just talking. There's, you know, it's nothing more complicated. It's nothing more serious. Well, it is serious, but it's nothing more intimidating than that.
Stuart Webb [00:17:03]:
And the number of people I've spoken to and said, why don't you just go and be a guest on a podcast? And they'll say, I couldn't do that. And you go, well, you can appear on a video call. We all do them nowadays since 2020. We've spent 8 we spent we've re reinvented ourselves as people are able to do a video call. Why don't you just do a video call with somebody and record it? And that is the beginning of your podcast. And I mean Yep. It's nothing more than a video call. And people will turn around and say, well, yeah, I do a lot of those and I record them and I go, okay.
Stuart Webb [00:17:35]:
Terrific. So so that's your podcast. And their immediate response is, yeah, that wouldn't be very good. And I well, what? Who defines if it's good?
Darren Saul [00:17:44]:
That's
Stuart Webb [00:17:44]:
right. It's it's not a it's it's not about good, it's about doing, and it's not only about doing as you said and starting, but it's also about thinking to yourself there may be somebody out there, even one other person that this could help. Great. Help that one other person. Stop worrying about the the 99.999 percent of people that that don't want that. They don't want it, they'll turn away. But there might be 0.0001% of people that go, that was useful for me.
Darren Saul [00:18:11]:
Yeah. If you could have one person if I could have one person with this, I'm very happy. If I've got one person to start podcasting and you made a really, really good point. And this is something that I usually say, if you're not ready to jump in and set up your own podcast, get on other people's shows, at least do that. Get on other people's shows, ask for the content, pop it up, use it in your marketing. You're often away. You don't even have to have your own show if you don't wanna do the extra work and, you know, the extra cost and the resources and whatever else. Just book yourself into lots of different shows and you're up and running.
Darren Saul [00:18:45]:
And then maybe one day you might start your own.
Stuart Webb [00:18:49]:
Darren, I don't know if you've helped anybody else. I hope you have. You've helped me a lot, and I'm really enthusiastic about sort of doing more now. So thank you so much for coming on and spending a few minutes with us. I'm just gonna ask you all, if you could go to, this link, which is link dot the complete approach dotco.ukforward/newsletter. That gets you on to our newsletter website, mailing list, then you get to hear about when we're publishing really interesting articles from the sort of people that we're talking to like Darren. So that's link dot the complete approach dotco.ukforward/newsletter. Please subscribe to that.
Stuart Webb [00:19:27]:
Darren, if you've done nothing else, you've helped me today. Thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.
Darren Saul [00:19:32]:
My pleasure.
Stuart Webb [00:19:33]:
Looking forward to sharing the content with you because that's what this is all about. I'm quite happy to do that, and I think it's a really good point you've made. People should ask for that footage, that that content, and use it as much as they can. So, Darren, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Looking forward to seeing what you do with this stuff.
Darren Saul [00:19:51]:
You bet. Thank you, Stuart, for having me, and thank you audience for listening and watching.
Stuart Webb [00:19:57]:
Bye bye.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Dr Daniel Gbujie (ep. 109)
8 aug· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Daniel?
Daniel Gbujie is a passionate advocate for sustainability and global cooperation. His experiences have inspired him to work towards creating a more sustainable and inclusive world. Through his work, he hopes to inspire young people to follow in the footsteps of those who have come before and make a positive impact.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Born in West Africa, evolved, overcame challenges.
05:18 Young Africans advocate for sustainable development globally.
06:51 Highlighting sustainability, leadership, and forward-thinking mindset.
11:52 Forming team Hakuna Matata to drive change.
16:36 Biosphere's balance, sustainability, and diversity importance.
18:07 Sustainability principles for inclusive and lasting systems.
21:39 Networking, expertise, and sustainability showcased through app.
26:37 Promoting sustainability through app and solar box.
29:29 Development requires inspiration, willpower and community.
32:26 Sustainability and resilience are crucial for culture.
36:13 Commitment to sustainability; grateful for support. Future involvement.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Follow Daniel on https://www.linkedin.com/in/chidubem-gbujie-961aa6130/
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ESG consulting, social impact, brand value, customer relationships, workforce, global standards, social responsibility, social risks, reputational damage, legal issues, financial losses, stakeholders, business objectives, sustainability, UN courses, environment, governance, materiality assessments, data analytics, internal biases, graduate advice, GRI standards, labor practices, human rights, diversity and inclusion, community engagement, customer privacy, GDPR, pandemic, employee engagement, resistant to change, effective communication, social responsibility efforts, ESG consultants, social risk management, stakeholder engagement, data collection, analysis tools.
SPEAKERS
Daniel Gbujie, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:18]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. I'm Stuart the Webb, the host of this thing, and I'm joined today by, a guest I'm truly honored to be, to be on the podcast with me. This is doctor Daniel Bougie. Doctor Daniel Bougie is a, is is a public health, expert, but has recently taken part in the 200 the Webb Sustainability World Cup. And I'm proud to be able to say, as a judge of that particular competition, he was voted and his team won, but he was voted the most impressive and valuable team leader of that competition. So, doctor Buge, thank you so much for spending a few minutes here with us today. I'm really honored that you've taken some time out of what I know is a very busy day for you to come and spend a few minutes with us. But please, just spend a few minutes.
Stuart Webb [00:01:22]:
Please introduce what it is you do because you have got a really very impressive CV.
Daniel Gbujie [00:01:30]:
Yes. Thank you very much, sir. And first of all, since after the completion, I've not had time to thank you. On behalf of the team, I wanna thank you for, you know, your imputes and your ability to crystallize why we should be sustainable on a global level, on a local level, on a subnational level. The game indeed has inspired us, and the game has been able to identify the uniqueness in all the regions as you know. And of of course, the game has also been able to inspire us young people knowing that the ones that have gone before us are really smart people. Yeah. So I am Daniel Buje Chidoben.
Daniel Gbujie [00:02:13]:
I was born in, in West Africa, Nigeria to be precise, in the southern part of of the country. And I am, a human being that has evolved over time. I say that with all honesty because if you don't evolve in light of the realities of the changing time, you will just become extinct just like the dinosaurs who felt who felt that they were the tallest, the most massive, amount of, species in the world, when others were running for for shelter and hiding on caves and evolving in the kinds of meals they can do and inventing, they felt they could muscle weight. And then where are they now? They are fossils. So the lesson is, I'm a child or an African child who has seen it all in the continent, who understand what it means to be poor, who understand what it feels like to see people being poor, who also knows that there's a better world for everyone if people tap into the better versions of themselves. I do have a health background, and that also helped me be able to articulate, you know, what I really want in life and how I could move forward. But, things got better for me when I got the opportunity to come to the United States on scholarship. I actually did come with the climate change background, the fellowship in climate change, and that really helped me.
Daniel Gbujie [00:03:50]:
The former vice president, his excellency, Al Gore, runs an environmental based program. Al Gore was once the vice president here in the United States. He he runs, an environmental based stuff. He was looking to expand, you know, and then he brought a lot of Africans, Asians to come to the US, you know, to come and learn more about the changing times. That also influenced me because at that time also, I was with the World Medical Association as a resident doctor then. There's a there's a junior doctor network within the World Medical Association, and they were looking into the environmental impact of health, you know, and I felt, wow, that will be nice. So about that same time, I got the opportunity to come to Colorado for some training, and boy was I introduced to sustainable development goals, climate questions, sustainable energy, renewable energy, clean energy, you know, all those beautiful terms, you know. And that really inspired me to know that, woah, there's a lot Africans need to do rather than just keep numb or keep paralyzed in the past while others evolve, you know, digitally, others use technology, others look for new ways to reinvent humanity.
Daniel Gbujie [00:05:18]:
We cannot keep being where we are, doing the same kind of things that have not changed anything. So I and many of the young Africans felt it would be wise to, you know, evolve and begin, you know, to to bring in this best sciences, evidence based sciences on how our environment, the policy we have, the way we do business, the way we articulate our views, the way we tell other members of the world, you know, the western world that we are an asset to be harnessed. But how do you know you're an asset to be harnessed if you don't know what it means to be harnessed? So, so over the years, I've evolved, like I said, but I'm proudly an African who understand where we should be and working with over Africans to bring about a better world for everyone Webb we all can see ourselves as, as brothers and sisters and as instruments of change for a better world. And that's the principle of sustainability. It's not about you. It's all also about those that are yet to come. However, the current people need to exist in time and space. Right? Why we do that? We do it in such a way that we do not disadvantage or we do not prevent those ones coming not to feel empowered, not to feel blessed with the natural resources that we have.
Daniel Gbujie [00:06:46]:
So so that's a little about, about about me. And,
Stuart Webb [00:06:51]:
That is that is if there is nothing else that you say today, Daniel, that shows well, 2 things. 1 of which is, you have a very, very impressive CV. You have got those honors that you've been brought in order to be able to bring that sustainability. From what you're learning back to where you went so that you can actually implement some of what you've learned, and we'll get on to how you're doing that. But also, Webb we I think we did at 1 stage on the sustainability world cup to talk about If there was 1 thing that we could teach everybody about sustainability, it would be to think not in quarters, not in years, but in decades because sustainability needs to needs to be thinking about not not not our children, but our children's children and the world we lead for the future because it is only by thinking in decades that we can actually start to see the sort of, the sort of effects Stuart we want. And I must admit, we we can get quite we can get quite distraught by some of what we see around us, but we have to realize that only a decade ago, this wasn't even a movement, and now it is embedded and people are Webb, and it is going to be different in another 10 years. So we need leaders like you in order to take people into that that new, that new thinking. So so that was a little bit about you and how you, you you you have become the person you are.
Stuart Webb [00:08:23]:
But how did you get involved in the Sustainability World Cup? What was it about it that you, that you that you that interested you, and how did you get involved? And and tell us a little bit more about the team that you're involved with.
Daniel Gbujie [00:08:35]:
Yes. Thank you. So I I feel it's just coincidence, and and I totally agree with your viewpoint that you must always be thinking futuristic, you must also be thinking of the actions you take now and how it has rippling effect in the future. And that's what really happened to me. So I did set up a nonprofit based organization here in the United States. Shortly after my training in Colorado at the Climate Reality Project, I, got to meet, a wonderful American lady. Her name is Renon Garriga, you know, and, we both got involved in the training, and we became mutual friends. And, over the years, we we we lost contact at some point.
Daniel Gbujie [00:09:23]:
But when she came back online, she saw that I had built a network of people across over a 100 questions, and I was really going into environmental climate actions, creating content, creating ideas, domesticating the knowledge of sustainability that involves vulnerable people, involves a better natural way we handle our natural resources to the benefit of people without creating poison, emissions, without, creating, distorting ecosystems. She liked the way that I was explaining, you know, the science behind climate change, the need for us to evolve, the need for us to be more smarter in our agricultural practice, cutting down trees indiscriminately to build shopping mall only for you to have flooding that kills thousands of people in less than 5 year. Doesn't make sense. So so so she loved all those concept. But somehow Webb lost contact. And then around March ending, you know, she reached out to me. Oh my goodness. You're doing a wonderful job.
Daniel Gbujie [00:10:27]:
I said, woah. Long time. What's going on? She says, there's this sustainability World Cup, and I know you are into sustainability development goals. They're all the same. It's just a process. It will be nice for you, you know, to gather your teams in team 54 project, you know, maybe 2 teams of 5 people, and let's see whether you can be in the final. I said, wow. That that would be nice.
Daniel Gbujie [00:10:51]:
I did not have any intention of joining. Mine was to push my team, push the movement, and bring them on board. And then somehow it now became a fact that we needed an African team, you know, and, I knew fully well that if the game is gonna be a simulation or an Internet based platform, it's gonna be hard because about the week, a week before the competition started, an undersea cable that runs through, West Africa got damaged. It had affected, you know, much of West Africa and some parts of the Central Africa. You could imagine. So already before now, the Internet penetrance was very poor. Now you now have a cable damage, so it's it only means it's gonna get worse. So I had to intervene, and and what what we did was we needed to now find, like, a team of people, you know, that has administrative background, marketing background.
Daniel Gbujie [00:11:52]:
I have a health background and a bit of sustainable development goal background. Having worked with the UN for some time, you know, and, I just decided that it would be nice to keep it within our team, you know, and, with her help and help of the organizers, we're able to form team Hakuna Matata. That's our AKA, you know, but we're team ambassador team. So it's, it's, it's providence, it's, hard work over the years, it's maintaining a steady relationship, it's also reaching out to my brothers within the continent and telling them that we cannot continue to remain where we are. If there's any opportunity to show the world how we think and articulate processes, It only adds value, you know, to the system. The world needs value, not not just the product, but a value based product. And the only way we can add value is to be part of the process, create, over own niche for ourselves, and get all these best sciences and domesticate it in the peculiarity of our region, in our social economic realities, so that our people know that we cannot remain where we are, and we cannot keep doing the same thing over and over again that has not given us a positive outcome, believing it will do the same thing. That's insanity.
Daniel Gbujie [00:13:25]:
So so the the the the opportunity that the sustainability woke up, you know, the little that I knew then created was something that I always five. I love a new challenge. I love innovation because I know innovation brings improvement. Improvement brings knowledge. Knowledge adds to culture change, the mentality, the mindset. So being a driven person, being a tech person, being someone who wants to showcase the continent as people that truly articulates knowledge, you know, I felt it was just, right to to, you know, represent the continent, and the game indeed created that platform well. You alongside the 8 judges and the organizers, professor Lila and Edmund, you know, created a wonderful game that is life changing. In short, I think it's the best content that we can ever have, you know, different from the kinds of game we always know, you know, the violent, the shooting, the slaying, and all this.
Daniel Gbujie [00:14:28]:
This is the content that can get you thinking. This is a content that does not create a monopolistic Stuart. No disrespect to monopoly, but the idea is that the sustainability principles are all immersed in this game. It's a tool that helps you think out of the box and helps you relay the concept of sustainability in a way that you have fun, build teamwork, you know, brainstorm with others, see the way people articulate thoughts, and then you know how to create the messaging. So so our our fusion in the game was just years of experience, years of building healthy relationship with environmental based people, and they're reaching out to us and say you're doing a good job. You can take this to another level, create content for the platform, inspire a new generation of people to better see what sustainability is from a gaming kind of point. So it was a match made in heaven, so to say.
Stuart Webb [00:15:29]:
So tell me, Daniel, what what advice would you give people? I'm going to just put the the the link now on the screen to show people where they can go and get some more information about what the Sustainability World Cup is. I mean, but what what advice would you have for people who might want to enter, next year and compete in the way that you have to and and achieve the sort of results, the sort of knowledge, the experience that you've got from, from entering for this year?
Daniel Gbujie [00:15:53]:
Yeah. So for for those wanting to enter for next year, I would just say have an open mind. You know? 1st, ask yourself, the world in which we're living in, are you very comfortable with the way things are going? Whether it's governance, whether it's your future, whether it's the future of the kids, is there a tool or an alternative way to press the reset button and start to have the mindset that respects the environment, respects people, and can still help you make your livelihood. You understand? In such a way that you are not a threat to not just yourself humans because humans think they're the only ones on the planet. No. No. No. No.
Daniel Gbujie [00:16:36]:
There are other non living things and living things that do not speak like us or go to school. But they are very important in creating the balance that we need. So there are lower animals, there are birds, there are animals, there are insects, There are bacterias. All of all these are part of the balancing act within a biosphere. So if you feel very passionate about being an agent of change and creating stability, sustainable development World Cup platform is a wonderful way to do that with a team, to do that, you know, enjoying yourself, you know, building that leadership trait, seeing how people articulate thoughts, listening to the judges, how they crystallize their opinions, you know, how they tell you that sustainability has many terms. Sustainability is a kind of improvement. Sustainability is a kind of social vehicle that creates change that we badly need in light of, you know, the growing, emission, in light of the the pollution, in light of the flooding, in light of climate crisis, if there's any way that we need to change our ways, we need to change the ways from where our pockets are. You know? Once we're able to control where we spend our money, we'll be able to be able to create a better definition of what wealth should be, a better definition that includes everyone, inclusivity, diversity.
Daniel Gbujie [00:18:07]:
These are terms that look so big, but these are the principles that sustainability, you know, drives on, that you cannot leave anyone behind. Anytime you develop or do anything, whether you you create a new financial market system, a new health system, a new educational system, a new fashion system that does not include the people, that does not include respect for the environment. Any system you build with no respect for the environment, for the people, for inclusion. It's not gonna be sustainable. It will not stand the taste of time. And when chaos begins to come, you will just fall like a pack of cat. However, if you absorb the sustainability principle that says that you can exist in time and space and create hope for the people coming and empower them as quick as possible, If you factor in environmental factors, you factor in social factors, you ensure that there are policies that protect our natural resources. You ensure that the decisions you make are all in the interest of the common good, not just America, UK, Europe, but also Africans.
Daniel Gbujie [00:19:20]:
Yes. These are some of the things that the game brings to you. And the game has its own calculations. The game teaches you how to really apply, you know, this is a financial game. So the corporate sustainability definition, how it connects with your everyday life, how you see the indices and the components that helps you grow and develop, you know, business and even your individual life. So I will encourage you five an open mind, be willing to learn, and then listen to the instructors, listen to what they say, follow those terms, ESG, environment, social, governance, framework, or indices. What it means is the corporate way that investors use to assess companies now to know whether they are viable for investment. You know, if you want to develop anything, your Stuart up ideas, if it doesn't have the elements of respecting natural resources, including people, targeting vulnerable community, meeting the needs of people, protecting environment.
Daniel Gbujie [00:20:27]:
It's not gonna stand the taste of time. It will just come and go.
Stuart Webb [00:20:31]:
Daniel, I mean, I think if anybody has any questions about why you were the, the the the the leader and voted the most, the the the best leader in this Sustainability World Cup. They've got a very good idea from what you've just said, how well you and you embrace Stuart, what you what you've what what you've learned from it. But what are you doing with your knowledge now? What are you doing in order to take this to the next level? How are you using those experiences? You've spoken a little bit about the nonprofit, but what are you now doing with those with those experiences in order to take you into the next, into the next phase of your, your journey?
Daniel Gbujie [00:21:08]:
Yes. Thank you. What we're now doing, what I am doing along with the team is creating awareness for the people back in the African continent. We are beginning to see a lot of people, you know, want to be in the next game. I know our friends in Ghana, I know friends in Ghana that want to set up 4, 5 teams, you know. I know people in South Sudan, they say they want to get involved in the team. And because, you know, the the the competition has a bit of benefits. Webb, it has a certificate that's given to you.
Daniel Gbujie [00:21:39]:
Secondly, it gives you visibility and exposure. Thirdly, you come into a community of people who are seasoned experts in corporate sustainability, and, and that's if you do your homework well, you can network well. Of course, while in the game, I develop an idea around an app called test. The app is to create a bit of awareness and see how sustainability can be done on an individual level. You know? So if you are a housewife and you have the app on your system and you want to see, okay, how can I be sustainable this week? You type in all the things you wanna do, and the app is able to give you, like, an idea. It's like a chat gpt of sustainability. You know, if you are a tomato seller, you want to sell tomatoes, you don't know how to be sustainable, it starts from the farm, right? Farm to the market. You know? So it tells you the farm to the market principles, areas where you can leverage on local sourcing, area where you can even have your own greenhouse stuff.
Daniel Gbujie [00:22:42]:
So those are kinds of the things that I've learned from the game. But most importantly is to raise awareness amongst my kind, The people in the continent, you know, explain sustainability in the language they understand. Swahili is the most spoken language in the central and the southern part of Africa. Hausa is 1 major language spoken in the entire Western African region and some parts of North Africa. In somewhere within the Southern Africa, we have Portuguese too. Angola, Mozambique, they speak Portuguese too. And of course, in most of West African, we have the Commonwealth of Nations that the English speaking part of it. So how to domesticate this knowledge of sustainability that every single person had to contribute towards that sustainability pool.
Daniel Gbujie [00:23:32]:
It is that critical mass of people that move the needle of progress. Just me and you doing things when 7 0.8000000000 people are not doing it will not work. Just United States and China believing that they are doing sustainability. It ain't gonna work. What truly works is when we have critical mass of people at the same time doing in their only 2 corner the sustainability. Got it. The sustainability principles. Now, doing that creates a culture.
Daniel Gbujie [00:24:04]:
Remember, a culture is formed when bulk sum of people over time. Aggregating their thoughts and are believing in a system that will drive them towards the promised land. It's not few people. We have to do this together, and we have to uplift those that are not in the current position to help themselves. And that's why I always want to use platform like yours that you are creating for us. Reach out to our leaders. You know? See young people in the continent, especially Gen Z's, especially people in the nineties and the eighties. We're tired of being, being told about the colonial time.
Daniel Gbujie [00:24:42]:
When we know the world has evolved, we just want to eat our fries. We just want to eat our fufu and Gary. We want to watch our Netflix. We want our kids to go to good schools. You know, trying to create an environment of toxicity won't work, especially now that young people know what's going on, is what's going on in in in Kenya. It's happening in Nigeria. It's happening everywhere. Young people, especially Africans, are tired, and they are showing their skills in music.
Daniel Gbujie [00:25:13]:
Almost every musician now sings African music. And go and check the age of all the African musicians that are topping the chart now all over the world. Bonaboye is in his thirties. Right? Davido is in his thirties. These are young people who are tired of how their, ecospace is not allowing them to evolve. When they see global best practices, they bring it on board and then they become celebrity. It's the same thing with the sustainability workers. So we're encouraging, Africans, young Africans, you know, partner with the sustainability world cup team, create a miniature version of your own, use that to identify young people that think critically out of the box, incentivize people, tell these young people whatever comes out of this will be to the development of your people.
Daniel Gbujie [00:26:02]:
You know? And all this will bring progress, development, and then investors will see that there's a critical mass of people who understand sustainability. Why not we go to invest? Because investors are also looking. Do we have resources? Human resources. It's not just about capital. Do we have human resources? Do we have the right environment? You know, to ensure development goes forward. Sustainable development or sustainability cannot work when there is conflict. It's simple. And the principle of sustainability defines itself that you have to be more inclusive, more transparent, more honest.
Daniel Gbujie [00:26:37]:
You have to respect the entire ecosystem. So domesticating this knowledge will be very central and that's what I intend to do with my app. Of course, working with you and many of, you know, many of the judges and many of our new partners that are relating to us. I truly believe we can have an app that can, you know, translate sustainability in all the major languages in Africa and remind people that sustainability can be on a personal level, on a subnational level, on a national level, and, of course, on a global level. But when all these connect together, that's only when we drive the sustainable development. You know? So these are some of the things we're doing. And then before I end, 1 of my teammates, sorry, 1 of my teammates is trying to build a cubicle, a cubicle that is called a solar box. He wants to build it at the center of a major market.
Daniel Gbujie [00:27:32]:
Now that solar box will have sockets all around about the 1, 000 sockets within the center so people can plug in their stuff, you know, you can barbecue, you can cook, you can trim hair, you know, you can refrigerate, you know, something like that. So these are some of the things we're trying to do, you know, eco smart practices, pilot projects in some of this stuff, you know, bringing in these principles we've learned within the and the things you've taught us within the game. So those are the few things.
Stuart Webb [00:28:03]:
Daniel, if there is anything I can do I mean, it it what you you you are you are you are an impressive an impressive leader. I think we can all agree that. And, I will once again I would just put up. This is, this is Daniel's, LinkedIn profile, which you'll find on LinkedIn, obviously. If you're not following somebody as impressive as doctor Daniel Bougie, then go follow him now because this man is gonna go a long way, really a long way. Daniel, IIII just wanna ask you 1 final questions, and the question obviously is, I haven't asked you 1 question that you must be burning for me to ask. What is the 1 question that you think I should five asked that I haven't yet?
Daniel Gbujie [00:28:47]:
Oh my goodness. Woah. That is so good. Okay. So 1 question I truly feel that you should have asked me is, what drives Africans to to to be much resilient, you know, in light of the things they see, in light of the things some of their leaders do. And why is it that when they move to clients or environments that are very, merit based, they always excel.
Stuart Webb [00:29:23]:
Mhmm.
Daniel Gbujie [00:29:24]:
So I I feel that that question will also go a long way.
Stuart Webb [00:29:27]:
What is the answer to the question?
Daniel Gbujie [00:29:29]:
And the answer is that the truth of the matter is that progress and development are a mixture of 2 walls. The those that do not have and those that have. Now the problem often is for those that don't have, if they're not inspired to want to have, it becomes difficult for them because they become paralyzed and they will not five, and the circle of poverty continues. But when you have experienced not having and you have the willpower, the I believe kind of mentality, the growth mindset, you know, when you observe best Webb you see evidence based science, when you seek knowledge and understanding, when you domesticate this knowledge and understand it with your African belief system. My African belief system tells me that we are community driven. There's a community based approach that brings about development. And that's the definition of sustainability. It's not a 1 person thing.
Daniel Gbujie [00:30:33]:
Now my African belief system tells me that, my brothers, my uncles, my mom, my dad, my nephews, my are all part of that eco space. And I must work hard to defend, you know, that community, that unionism, that common goal, that common agenda. Now all of those things build resilience. Remember, I'm a reflection of many things I have seen. Knowledges I've gotten in the US, experiences I've gotten in Africa, experience I've gotten in my marriage, experiences I five seen on TV. All of us are a reflection of that. However, we can turn that around. We can absorb those positive attributes and bring to light and inspire new generation of people that, yes, you see my skin like this, but I think differently.
Daniel Gbujie [00:31:21]:
I know that 4.03 parts per million is not good for the climate. I know the emphasis is to bring down carbon emission to pre industrial level. I know fully well that you may be concerned about your polar beer, but my brothers in Ethiopia are more concerned about their goods, their millet, their means. They are all needs that are different. However, it is the human needs that brings us together. And that if we work together in such a way that those that do not have and those that have can come together, we can build a better world where people that don't have now have hope and aspiration to learn because they know that their brothers that have are willing to help them pull them up the ladder of progress. So our resilience as an African, young man, young woman, or Africans you see are a reflection of our environment. But what has changed over the last 30 years is that young people do not want to get sucked up.
Daniel Gbujie [00:32:26]:
You know, we want to ensure that this resilient mindset which is also part of the definition of sustainability. Ability in the long run to sustain, you know, a culture that respects everything within the environment, respects the system established, respect regulatory laws that protects the natural resources in such a way that is beneficial for us that are currently alive and all. That's the textbook of resilient. And that's what I've known all my five. You know? So when I walk to school and don't have school bus, I know fully well I need to read harder than everybody in my class, you know, because I know that the knowledge I will get will articulate the way I think will help me be able to communicate to you who do not know my world very Webb, but you will now say, I can resonate with what Daniel is saying. He's he's dressed differently. He's definitely an African, but he's speaking a language that I can relate with. So it's what resilient does, it's what knowledge base does.
Daniel Gbujie [00:33:27]:
You're able to bring your experience as an African, relate it with those in the questions world, and create that bridge that is badly needed. Yes. It's the bridge that we're important. To develop ourselves.
Stuart Webb [00:33:39]:
Bridge is very important. Daniel, this has been a fascinating fascinating insight into the way you think, and it is an absolute demonstration of the reasons why you won that award as the leader of, of of note. You are you are obviously going a long way, and thank you so much for spending a few minutes talking to us. I really appreciate your insights On the message that we all need to learn to think about, as Daniel's just said, we might be worried about, whether or not we're we're emitting too much carbon. But today, in Africa, in Ethiopia, somebody's worried about whether or not their goats have got enough millet and remembering that we need to bring everybody together, I wanna thank you very much for spending some time with us. If you would like to get on to the newsletter, which will announce who we have coming up on future of these LinkedIn five and podcasts, please go to this link. That's link. Thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter.
Stuart Webb [00:34:44]:
That's httpscolonforward/link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. Daniel, I can't thank you enough for spending a few minutes with us. I can't thank you enough for your contribution, and I can't do anything but wish you, that you take this learning these experiences and continue to drive them forward into what I know you're gonna make a huge success of how you take forward your sustainability goals. Thank you.
Daniel Gbujie [00:35:15]:
Thank you so much, Saf, for giving Africans like me the opportunity. This is what it means to be sustainable. This is what it means to be, your brother's keeper. This is how we build community. We use our platform to uplift others because in the long run, we are uplifting millions of more people. So I really am very appreciative. Again, I wanna thank you for all the comments for teaching the 50 of us who are participant, the 10 teams, you know, your contribution about improvement, advancement, you know, being realistic in real time, you know, all those things have taken them to heart, you know, and I'm looking forward to working with you, you know, learning more. It's a learning thing.
Daniel Gbujie [00:35:55]:
Nobody knows it all. You must continually evolve. Many people don't know that Facebook started as a campus, go to place. Now it's a marketplace. It's almost like a bank. You get paid on Facebook now. So what it means is that ideas evolve over time. It's never static.
Daniel Gbujie [00:36:13]:
And that's the same thing with sustainability. In the long run, you have to evolve but in such a way that you are very protective of the environment, the people, you bring everybody along in a transparent way. So I'm eternally grateful to Edmund and professor Lisa, and I'm commit completely committed to 2025. I hope to see more team participation, you know, in any way possible, you know, whether as a mentor, whether to advise people, whether as an emcee, you know, or whether even as a TV show because I see the sustainability World Cup 1 day becoming a TV show where you'll be a judge and then everybody will say, ah, that's the first judge in the show. So but the idea is that it's a wonderful opportunity. It's a good game that brings like minds together. When you leave the game, your life is never the same.
Stuart Webb [00:37:03]:
What more can I say? Daniel, thank you so much for spending some time with us. Thank you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Lubna Samara (ep. 108)
25 jul· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Lubna?
Lubna Samara is a seasoned healer and leadership coach who specializes in well-being coaching for people in the workplace. With a focus on supporting individuals at all levels of the organization, she helps senior leaders and lower-ranking employees navigate the challenges they face. She understands the toll that burnout and feelings of being marginalized can take on individuals in the professional world, and is dedicated to providing the support and guidance needed to thrive in the workplace. Through her work, Lubna seeks to create a more inclusive and supportive environment for all.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Healing, coaching, and support for workplace struggles.
06:10 Book focuses on holistic healing and psychology.
07:44 Unlocking superconscious mind for personal and workplace success.
12:32 Focus on the positive, nature heals tech burnout.
14:26 Book integrates psychology, coaching, meditation, and energy.
18:35 Thank you, check out newsletter and subscribe.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Download a workbook from www.higherwill.com with a copy of Lubna’s book “Beyond Potential”
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
healing, well-being, leadership, coaching, burnout, confidence, imposter syndrome, procrastination, work environment, imposter syndrome, meditation, energy healing, mindfulness, emotional intelligence, resilience, empathy, personal development, business, book Beyond Potential, values, purpose, intuition, energy fields, body-mind-spirit, team building, stress management, leadership coaching, energy exercises, empowerment, mindfulness exercises
SPEAKERS
Lubna Samara, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:22]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science five questions over coffee. I actually don't have a coffee in front of me right at the moment. This is a fruit tea, because I've had quite a lot of coffee already today, and therefore, I'm trying to reduce the amount of caffeine in my system. But I'm delighted to be joined by, Lubna Samara. Lubna is a an award winning leadership and well-being coach. She works with healing and she's a best selling author of a book called Beyond Potential. I'm sure we're gonna get into that in just a moment which is a number 1 in 7 categories, including business. So we're gonna talk a little bit how this applies to business.
Stuart Webb [00:01:05]:
So welcome to It's Not Rocket Science five Questions Over Coffee, Lubna.
Lubna Samara [00:01:10]:
Hello, Stuart. Hi. Good to be here.
Stuart Webb [00:01:12]:
Thank you. So so, Lubna, who who is who is it you're trying to help, particularly in in the work you do? And and I know it's not just about healing, but it's about leadership as well.
Lubna Samara [00:01:24]:
Yes. It is. I am a long standing healer, but I also do leadership coaching and well-being coaching. So I I specifically work for with people at work. And, my work basically, I try and help out anybody in the workplace who needs help, you know, whether you're senior leadership or whether you're kind of lower down the ranks and, you're really struggling. And a lot of people struggle with so many different, issues at work. Burnout tends to be a little bit higher up, you know, with with leadership because they tend to be just so overworked and professional and and perfectionist often Stuart, that kind of five, that character five. But a lot of people feel overlooked in the workplace And 1 of the very common things that we don't often hear about is somebody thinking their boss doesn't like them and they end up feeling marginalized at work because people know what's going on.
Lubna Samara [00:02:23]:
And when they turn to their colleagues, their colleagues kind of back off. They don't really want to get involved because that might put them in a bad place with their boss. So that is a very common problem, and, strangely enough, it actually works the other way. You know, leaders can be as phased by somebody in their team not being very nice to them as the other way around. And this, you know, these are problems that can be very easily worked with. Then you've got people who have lack of confidence. And without that lack without confidence, often people are scared to speak up. They won't put themselves up for projects.
Lubna Samara [00:03:01]:
They won't put their hands up. They won't put their input in. And they may have really valuable input, but they don't feel comfortable opening up and sharing because maybe they're scared of ridicule or for whatever reason. So these are, and of course the usual suspects like imposter syndrome is really a big 1 as well, especially with people who are working in a corporate environment and they may not have formal education. These people can have amazing personal resources and knowledge base and skill sets, but they kind of think that over people or their colleagues will not accept them or to the same level. And, they often suffer, you know, sometimes people can suffer from that, and and of course, you know, procrastination, all the usual things that people really suffer with in the workplace, I've dealt with, you know, that's
Stuart Webb [00:03:58]:
And what do you find people that you are dealing with have have tried in the past, Lubna, to sort of overcome these issues before before they sort of seek help from somebody like yourself?
Lubna Samara [00:04:07]:
Five mean, the reason why I was smiling is because just, a couple of my clients were very senior. And, 1 of the symptoms of burnout actually that, again, is very little spoken about, is anger management. Now this is 1 of the less appealing manifestations of stress. And, like, these guys have kind of smashed laptops down in meetings, coffee pots, and, and they end up getting blacklisted across the board, right, because of that kind of behavior. And typically, they come to me saying, you know, don't talk to me about my mother. And obviously, obviously, they've been sent to therapy before. You know? So III don't start off with that. We start with the behavioral aspects.
Lubna Samara [00:05:00]:
And as soon as they feel more in control, they kind of start thinking, well, I I need to look deeper. And then we do go back into that. So that is, 1 aspect, say, of burnout that can really that is more unusual. That is more unusual. But typically most people have tried working on themselves, they've tried personal development, they've tried, they're actually curious. A lot of people already have analyzed and worked out the whole situation and that's 1 of the problems in fact, Because jumping to conclusions can create even more problems and can keep you stuck in a loop.
Stuart Webb [00:05:45]:
That's amazing. We're gonna get to your to your book and I guess, I'll I'll I'll I'll put a a scroll up now about, your book which is which is Beyond Potential. Stuart to me a little bit about, thank you.
Lubna Samara [00:06:00]:
Talk to
Stuart Webb [00:06:01]:
me a little bit about about Beyond Potential and and and the sort of advice that you five, in the book.
Lubna Samara [00:06:10]:
The book deals with all these issues basically. And, more than that though, I mean, apart from it's the way we're working. I, again, as a healer, I'm very keen on raising awareness and so that people can become independent and catch their problems themselves, So we work holistically, body, heart, mind and spirit, and Webb work literally section by section. So in chapter 2, we're really looking at the more physiological kind of problems like triggering and anxiety triggering and jumping to conclusions. It's our expectations. I mean, these are all psychology theories that are very well established that show us how these can get us into into trouble and how to fix them. The the workarounds generally can be quite easy to manage. So the book tells you how to do that.
Lubna Samara [00:07:05]:
In chapter 3, we look at emotional intelligence and how to raise that. We look at emotional sovereignty and how to bring your awareness back and calm your heart down. It's when our hearts get engaged, our our we lose clarity. When we lose clarity, we we end up stuck. You know, this is really I'm very, very big on clarity and gaining clarity. Through calming the heart and the mind, we start gaining clarity. And, in chapter 3, we look at resilience and empathy. And then we move into chapter 4, which is more about the mind and how to get the mind to to get rid of all the fog in the mind.
Lubna Samara [00:07:44]:
But also as a healer, I work a lot with the superconscious mind, the higher mind, and coaches these days call this your genius. And accessing that part of our minds and each 1 of us has it, you know, you're born it's a facility you're born with. It's not a question of, you know, you've already got it and chances are almost everybody would have used it, would be using it at some level without really being aware of it. So bringing more awareness to that, developing that brings very tangible benefits to the workplace, five better communications, better focus and concentration, and and inspiring creativity. So and then in chapter 5 Webb then look for me what is the heart of the book is really the spirit aspect Webb we're going deeper into the self, we're looking at values, we're looking at purpose, we're looking at a deeper alignment, we're looking at connecting better to our work environment, to our family, to our community, and to be more authentic, and how to do all of that. So that's the book kind of takes you through all of these chapter by chapter pretty much and in the final chapter, in the beginning of the book, we start by looking at what your dreams were, what did you want to do when you were a child and how has Stuart, what aspects have you taken through into adulthood? And in the final chapter, we end up doing your journey of transformation. So we look at where you are today, what are the challenges that have held you back and taking you to the dreams that you've and your ambitions to and charting that path clearly. So that's basically the book.
Stuart Webb [00:09:25]:
Brilliant. Brilliant. You have a you have AAA Webb as well, higherwill.com. Are there are there any, pieces of advice, workbooks, and things like that on the on the website which can help people to understand better themselves what they're trying to do?
Lubna Samara [00:09:45]:
There are a lot of blogs actually on the website. So for instance, there is, 1 blog, to do with values and and and that gives, I give an exercise on team building in that. But the work there is a workbook that comes with the book Beyond Potential, which I've kept at a low price. I mean, it's 2 past 40 for the Kindle version. And, with that, at the end of chapter 1, you can download the workbook for free, which is a substantial document in its own right. It's it's a it's a 50 page document. At the moment, it's free with the book, and, that takes you chapter by chapter through all the exercises. Actually, I was talking to somebody a few days ago, and, he was telling me how he loved 1 of the meditations.
Lubna Samara [00:10:31]:
And actually it's an energy exercise, a very simple I give you very simple energy exercises in the book, in the workbook, because developing that is a really important aspect, but we'll come to that in a minute I think. But it's, yeah, so he was telling me how much he loved it and how it actually healed his neck, which he was struggling with for some days. And, yeah. So it's and and there are also meditations.
Stuart Webb [00:11:00]:
There there
Lubna Samara [00:11:01]:
are a lot of exercises, so that is free with the workbook. I'm sorry. That is free with the book. The workbook is free with the book. And, and also there are a lot of diagrams in the book. And, you also get with the book AAA PDF of all the diagrams in color because they make a lot more sense in color.
Stuart Webb [00:11:22]:
Tell me, you you you were you're sort of talking that a little bit about, about, these meditations. I mean, how did you how did you discover this? How did you get into it? What was the what was the the the the source of this, for you and and how is how is this helped the leaders that you that you're working with now?
Lubna Samara [00:11:41]:
Well, that's a good question. I got into it it's a long it's a long story. I was actually, a mathematician who worked in the petroleum industry, then I moved into banking, I did an MBA in finance, and I started seeing energy fields. And, I never really expected to be a healer. I I Webb along, and the first course I went to was in January 93. So it's a long time. And I really just did it to get an experience of what it was about. You know, I was doing a lot of Tai Chi and a lot of meditation which I developed myself and I went to a lot of classes and I kind of put together what I liked, which was about feeling the love cause I see it all around us and focusing on that.
Lubna Samara [00:12:32]:
It's really, you know, you can focus on all the negativity, which is gonna keep your thoughts over, you know. But if you focus on all the five, you can rise above pretty much anything. And it really is about, you know, the old Oscar Wilde adage, you know, we're all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the Stuart, right? So it's about that. And the meditations really developed out of that. And the guided meditations are part meditations and part energy work. So we start with grounding and grounding and connecting to earth is extremely important and that helps anybody. I mean, people with tech burnout five, in Japan, they send them, they they use forest bathing to to heal people with tech burnout because nature is such an important part and harmonizing our energy fields with nature is extremely important. We can do it through energy healing but you can do it just by going out for long walks in nature.
Lubna Samara [00:13:31]:
Your energy fields will harmonize and and and nature is a massive healer for us, you know, so everybody benefits from that. You know, this is 1 of the reasons why people go in teams to to to go hiking together and to it resets It sets us all on the same level. We're all equal where nature is concerned and it builds connectedness and it's over healing thing to do.
Stuart Webb [00:14:02]:
Lubna, we've been talking for a while now and and you've answered some questions very fully. There must be 1 that you're currently thinking. I I do wish you'd ask me about this because that's the real critical question. So tell me what's that question that you really want me to ask and obviously, as you've asked, you will have asked a brilliant questions. You better give us an answer to it. So what's that question you really do think I should have asked you?
Lubna Samara [00:14:26]:
I'm not sure it's a critical question, but it's a question I've been asked quite a lot since actually I gave the book to my beta readers from the beginning. In the book Webb work with 4 modalities: we work with psychology and coaching as 1 pillar. We work with meditation as a second pillar. Webb work with energy works, energy, the principles of energy healing, and we work with the quest, your questions in what it is in life. Right? Now I've been asked from the beginning, do you need to put the energy works in? What does it contribute? Because it's a bit weird and it might put people off who are who don't believe in it. And I would just say, first of all, there is a lot of research to show that energy healing does work. I mean, clinically, 1 of the largest, I'm with an organization called The Healing Trust and 1 of the largest clinical trials was actually done by 1 of the fellows of the Healing Trusts, Sandy Edwards with Birmingham City University. And the results of that trial were so, Webb so strong that the, doctor Michael Dixon, who's head of the Royal Medical Household and past head of the past chair of the NHS Alliance wrote a forward for the book recommending and I think, I hope I'm getting this right, but I think he recommends that the NHS should take it very seriously and start looking at bringing in healers into the NHS to cut costs.
Lubna Samara [00:16:01]:
So there's a lot of research, a lot of it is in the book, throughout the book is kind of peppered in. But for me, I really wanted to put it in because as somebody who myself was skeptical about it and I was kind of, when I was still working in banking and I started seeing energy fields and I started doing a lot of Tai Chi and meditation, somebody stopped me and said, you know, you've got very strong energy, you should do energy healing. And I was like, I don't do that. I'm a mathematician. And then I caught myself and I thought, oh God, I hate that kind of thinking, I'm gonna go. And so I did really, I went really as to find out a little bit more about it and how it works. And by the 3rd session I came out, you know, I was like, wow. You know, I was really I felt struck and I was thinking Webb use 5 to 7% of our cognitive processes.
Lubna Samara [00:16:58]:
This is some of the rest. And I realized I'm not using my usual kind of mind. So in a nutshell, energy healing, just developing the faculty. I don't teach in the book how to heal other people, but just to develop the faculty and to understand the basics, give you very basic exercises to heal yourself, but it you can't heal without empathy. Okay? It's really it's it's it's it so it really develops your empathy. It really develops your intuition because you're using your intuitive faculties. And I teach you how to do that in the book in order to connect more fully to your over senses. And you see people from Oprah Winfrey Stuart to to Jeff, gosh I've forgotten his name, the guy who started Amazon.
Stuart Webb [00:17:50]:
Bezos.
Lubna Samara [00:17:51]:
Thank you. All of them attribute their success to their intuition. And research even shows that of leaders over successful, very successful people over a 10 year period, all of them, most of them attribute their success to their intuition. So this is extremely important, faculty. And healing helps you to develop that awareness, but also it helps you to connect your higher mind. So we heal with that and, the practice of it, the discipline of it. If I had my way, I would get children to do that at school and get them to develop it very early on because the benefits are so powerful. And so that's really the 1 question that I would have asked you.
Stuart Webb [00:18:35]:
Lopne, thank you very much for for spending a few minutes with us and and talking about that. I'm I know you're a a busy person and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you to get on and and help others. I'm just gonna just gonna point out, as we come to the end, if you would like to, get on to the newsletter and find out when people like over, I'm a great guest. Coming on to this podcast to talk so that you can engage ask questions get on to the to the to this link, which is HTTPS colon forward slash forward slash link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link dot the complete approach.co.uk forward slash newsletter and obviously like and subscribe to this podcast as well and tell all your friends about it because that way we get more people knowing about the great work that people like over are doing at the moment to help us all so love with all of that, said. Thank you so much for coming in and spending a few minutes with us really appreciate the time that you've spent and well get out there and help a few more people to overcome some of those stresses and, burnout that I know it is a major problem in businesses today.
Lubna Samara [00:19:50]:
And, Stuart, thank you very much for having this platform and hosting people like me and, I look forward to seeing more of your podcasts.
Stuart Webb [00:19:58]:
Thank you, Lorna.
Lubna Samara [00:20:00]:
Thank you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Alex Dumas (ep. 107)
11 jul· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Alex?
Alex Dumas is a passionate advocate for representation and diversity in the boardroom. Facing the fear of failure and the pressure of succeeding for future generations, Alex understands the importance of focusing on the generational impact while not sabotaging oneself. With a belief in regrouping and recovering from mistakes, Alex aims to break the stigma attached to people of color in the corporate world. Through their work, Alex is committed to creating a more inclusive and accepting environment for all professionals.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Challenges facing people of color in leadership.
04:37 Coaching changed perspectives, empowering questions lead forward.
07:00 Nonprofit leaders face burnout from overcommitment.
12:47 Free audio gift to improve leadership skills.
16:59 Early coaching was about impressing, now understanding matters.
20:26 Alex, thank you for the insightful chat.
22:02 Grateful for the opportunity to make a difference.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Download a FREE audio lesson https://www.alexdumascoaching.com/f/everybody-wins
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
world champion boxer, warm up, business leaders, mindset, fear, competition, inspirational, motivational speaker, teamwork, individual, team, potential, self-improvement, frequency of vibration, mindset, brain health, Samaritan, mental boxing, mental health, future, identity crisis, depression, bankruptcy, Landmark Forum, team support, positivity, newsletter, insights, life lessons, business owners
SPEAKERS
Alex Dumas, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:15]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science five questions over Coffee. My, well, my coffee is here in front of me. I'm here with Alex, my guest today. Alex, really pleased to have you on. Alex is a a keynote speaker and executive coach. He's a a a global movement leader, and he's the VP of the BIPOC Coach Collective and a partner of black leaders worldwide. Again, a man with a really impressive CV. So I'm really looking forward to the to the discussion we're gonna have today.
Stuart Webb [00:00:42]:
Alex, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science. Five questions over coffee.
Alex Dumas [00:00:48]:
Hey. Great morning, Stuart. Thank you for this invitation. Looking forward to this conversation.
Stuart Webb [00:00:53]:
Terrific. Well, look. Let's start with the the the the the reason that we're here, Alex. So who who are the people you're trying to help? You know, you've got an impressive CVU. You're working with some impressive people. Who who are those people that you're trying to help? What What's the the main problem they face in their business and personal lives?
Alex Dumas [00:01:11]:
Yeah. Great question. A lot of my work has been centered around black executive men, BIPOC leaders of color. So sometimes they're in the corporate spaces. Sometimes they're entrepreneurs, so they're coaches, consultants, things of that nature. And there's some specific challenges that they're having. Some of them look like this Webb leaders, in this case, can feel isolated. They can feel lonely because they may be the only one in the room that looks like them.
Alex Dumas [00:01:37]:
They may be going to boardrooms or having these conversations in c suite, and they're they're trying to crack over get in that room or if they're they're already in there, they're like, well, I'm the only one here. Maybe I'm not gonna be respected. Maybe I'm not gonna be, accepted, which is a big challenge. They have this fear of failure. Right? They're carrying this pressure of, I have to succeed so that generations down the line have opportunities too, and I'm a big proponent of that. I I really believe in making sure we focus on the generational impact, but not to the degree where it sabotages ourselves, where we harm ourselves to to be perfect, to get everything right because, Stuart, if you're like me, you make mistakes. You you flub, you you you mess up things, and then you regroup and recover. And, unfortunately, out here in America, there is that challenge of if you do mess up, if you're a person of color, then there's that stigma attached.
Alex Dumas [00:02:39]:
Like, oh, maybe he wasn't good enough. Maybe she wasn't smart enough, maybe we rushed her into this promotion, maybe he's not really built for this yet. And so there is that pressure to to perform, but at the same time, I look at helping them expand their dreams. Right? The dreams of this generational impact of breaking these generational curses of achieving these the financial freedom that is vital for our lives. So if someone says, hey. Money's not important. Like, let's just get back into reality for a second. Money is pretty important to support a lifestyle and and support different ventures that they five.
Alex Dumas [00:03:22]:
And and really the the the big dream is embracing their authenticity. Right? Just
Stuart Webb [00:03:30]:
Mhmm.
Alex Dumas [00:03:30]:
Being themselves, showing up, and feeling the weight release, feeling the feeling the pressure gone, and they know that they can do their best work without this this weight on them. So those are the type of things that I work on with clients and one on one are in groups, and these are the secret dreams, the secret fears that sometimes they don't wanna admit, but it's there. That's it's what gets in the way most times of really breaking through ascending to a neck to their next level of success.
Stuart Webb [00:04:01]:
Alex, tell me, you you've talked talked passionately there about, you know, getting away from some of those sort of barriers that that that inhibit. I know I know you must look at some of these leaders and think, well, you know, these are the things you're doing wrong, and I'll I'll get to that in a minute. But how did you overcome some of those, some of those problems yourself? How did you manage to break through from where you were into where you are now?
Alex Dumas [00:04:37]:
Yeah. Good question. There's a combination of things. 1, I would say coaching was one of the big maybe maybe the biggest influence of helping me just see life differently because I came from a background of middle middle class, you know, youngest of 4 children. So I'd like to say that my parents saved the best for last, But I grew up not feeling important, feeling invisible, being in different spaces where I didn't feel heard, I didn't feel seen. And what I saw is the differences, the quality of questions I would ask myself when I was younger, going into young adulthood, all these different things. I would ask myself questions five, why is life this way? Why can't I have this? Why isn't this meant for me or why can't I be here? Those aren't bad questions, but what I found was a space to ask myself empowering questions. Questions like, well, what do I wanna create from this? What do I wanna choose to do here? Who's available or what is available that can help me and that can serve me? How can I contribute? Right? That helps that's helped me move forward.
Alex Dumas [00:05:43]:
So coaching and and mentorship has been a big part and, obviously, the other big revelation or the the big influence in my life has been my wife. My wife, Sarah, we've been together now for 18 years, married for 14, and she is one of the first people outside of my family, you know, and and friends, but someone who really helped me anchor and ground myself and see possibility. And I like to say it like this, if I could see a possibility that I could be in the possibility. If I don't see an option, if I don't believe that there's an opportunity for me, then the obstacles are just gonna be all I see. That's gonna be in front of my face, and I won't be able to advance.
Stuart Webb [00:06:29]:
That's great news. That's great. Jules, just giving you a a big big big up big up there, Alex, with with Go Alex. So I'm pleased. Jules, thank you for watching in. So we we were talking a little bit about some of the the leaders you're trying to help. Tell me, you know, what is it they've done before they sort of turn to the sort of advice, coaching that you can bring to them and help them? How have they tried to effectively, how have they tried to solve their own problem?
Alex Dumas [00:07:00]:
Yeah. They they've gone down a road that I've gone down when I was in nonprofit leadership for for 10 years where, 1, I would say they would try too hard. Right? Just try to force, like I mentioned before, the the pressure, they might look like working long hours, less sleep, kinda getting on the grind, you know, 5 AM wake up, 2 2 AM, go to sleep. Right? And just having this unhealthy attachment and and really addiction to trying to be successful in sacrificing time with family, sacrificing their own health journey, sacrificing if they're a person of faith or spiritual practice. Right? Because they have to get it done. They have to achieve it. They have to make the thing happen. Another challenge that I see for them and and I laugh because this is this is my life for many years of not asking for help of I should know this already.
Alex Dumas [00:07:56]:
I'm in this position. If I ask, then someone's gonna know that I don't know the answer, and then I look Stuart, and then they don't trust me and right? All these things that we make up in our heads, and that's that breeds resentment. That breeds gossiping. And some workplace things are are real. You know, you might hear the term microaggressions. You might hear the term, you know, I can't think of the other words right now, but just stay Webb you on this. Right? The resentment, the gossiping, and that energy attaches itself to you. Right? If I'm thinking about this manager, I don't like her Webb don't like him.
Alex Dumas [00:08:37]:
He's always doing this to me. Right? We come back into this victim place. This is where Mhmm. The the men I've and and clients I've worked with, that's where they struggle the most when they're putting their attention on what this person's doing and what they're up to and how they affected them. And, really, let's not victim blame. Right? It's not shame, but they take responsibility. What am I doing? Who am I being? Where am I coming from when I'm in this process or in this scenario?
Stuart Webb [00:09:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. I it's true, isn't it? We we so often, and I I see this with with with business leaders. They're they're focusing on, you know, what is it they're doing and and and they they choose to respond in a negative way to something. And you sort of say, well, the the the choice was entirely yours. You can choose 1 of 2 paths, and you always seem to choose the one that's somehow destructive to yourself. It is about taking that choice and making that that decision to say no. You know, like you said, your wife helped you to see if there's a if there's a path that will take take you better.
Stuart Webb [00:09:46]:
Take the path that will take you better. Even if somebody else is doing something, don't worry about it. You have to choose that path.
Alex Dumas [00:09:53]:
Yeah. It doesn't diminish it. It doesn't I I say it like this from the stage. Just because you can do anything doesn't mean you have to do everything.
Stuart Webb [00:10:01]:
Yes. Agreed. Absolutely.
Alex Dumas [00:10:03]:
Watching, someone listening, I want you to really, like, put a finger in your ear so it doesn't go out and doesn't go in and go out the other. Right? You can do anything. Yeah. You're you're more than capable. You're highly qualified. You have track record of success, but recognize there's over people in those space who can serve you, that can help you, that can actually get you there faster than you can do on your own and with more ease and with grace. And at the end of the day, who doesn't wanna have more fun in the success process? Right? This in our on our destination. It doesn't have to be this, oh, goodness.
Alex Dumas [00:10:39]:
I gotta do it all myself, and I'm self made. Nobody that I've ever met has been self made. And if they are, then they won't admit it because they're probably in the self destructive mode, and they can't see it.
Stuart Webb [00:10:52]:
Yeah. I love that, Alex. I really do love that. And I I suppose, my own journey, I I was a scientist long before I started out in business and I worked out very early on that I, you know, I was standing on the shoulders of giants because they'd come before me and worked out principles that I was just gonna extend. And, you know, so I've never ever understood this belief that somehow to be successful, you have to be self made because as far as I can see, we're all standing we're all standing on somebody else's, successes and somebody else's movement. And even if you only add a a small amount to that, as long as you add in the right way, that takes you forward. It takes everybody forward. You can lift you can lift everybody out.
Stuart Webb [00:11:34]:
I I do find it disappointing that people don't see that they can actually sort of, take that take the take take the positives and and move things forward. Let let's just turn to to to one of the sorry. Go ahead.
Alex Dumas [00:11:50]:
No. I was gonna stow this analogy out where someone told this to me long time ago about this principle of of being self made and doing it all yourself. And they asked me, it was, how how many people does it take to make a peanut butter jelly sandwich? And my initial response is like, oh, it's me. I just take the bread and I'm so, like, well, did you eat the bread? Did you package it? Did you do all these things? Did how'd you did you, were you the blacksmith that that forged the knife, the butter knife? Right? So there's a lot more out there. There's a lot more people who are contributing to your success than you believe.
Stuart Webb [00:12:24]:
Absolutely brilliant. Love the analogy. Love the analogy. Have you got a a valuable piece of advice? And I'm sort of gonna put, that your your website here. Have you got a valuable piece of advice or something that you'd leave with people that you can you can direct them to that that would help them in their journey to to take on some of the stuff you talking about?
Alex Dumas [00:12:47]:
Yeah. One of the things I would share with them is, free audio that I've recorded. It's called everybody wins 3 mistakes that leaders make, and it kinda touches on some of the things we spoke about earlier where the the pressure to perform, the the loneliness, the the hiding, the not asking for help, these are the things that get in the way of making innovative change of what Five looked to call generational impact and and uplifting communities. And this is a free audio gift. It's something I give away when I talk, so another way that I can be of use is come book me to speak for your team, for your organization. WiTalk is the win win communicator. It's a new way for leaders to listen, and it's it's coming from a place of not necessarily the tools of, like, you gotta actively listen and make sure you I really look at it from the space of, like, your state of being. Who are you when you're listening to people? What are the biases that you're holding? What are the what's the chatter inside of you that is blocking you from connecting with somebody? And and one of my signature phrases that I love to say is build a bigger bubble, and this kinda goes into the the premise of doing you could do anything, but not you don't have to do everything.
Alex Dumas [00:13:59]:
So building a bigger bubble meaning expanding, having a dream, having a vision so big that your team, your your your family, anybody around you can see themselves inside of it, and they actually start to champion you. They start to advocate. They start to be your evangelist of, man, this is where we're going. This is what we're doing. Who doesn't love following somebody or being on a journey with somebody who's got who's up to something big. Right? Who's up to a a huge a huge bigger larger than life vision, and it might seem impossible, but it's only impossible till we do it.
Stuart Webb [00:14:34]:
Brilliant. I've put the the link, to to that, which is on your website. I'll just read it out for those people who are unable at the moment to to to write anything down, but this will be in the show notes, people. It's a h t t p s colon forward slash for effect, www. Alexander Dumas coaching. That's that's obviously Alexander Dumas. He he can probably work at.
Alex Dumas [00:14:55]:
But but I do Alex on. Like, I'm I'm after yeah. After the Alexander Dumas.
Stuart Webb [00:15:00]:
Yeah. Alexand dumascoaching.comforward/f/ everybody hyphen wins. So that's alexdumascoaching.com/f/everybodywins. That'll be in the the the the show notes. Go and download that that, that that that audio. It's a free piece of content Alex gives away. So, Alex, thank you for that. Alex, it was there a particular book or a program that, that that that that that that you would leave as a a valuable, valuable thought, that sort of started you thinking about this? You've mentioned your wife.
Stuart Webb [00:15:35]:
There are other things that must have sort of begun to sort of make you the man you are today.
Alex Dumas [00:15:42]:
Yes. Yeah. Thank you. One speech in particular comes to my mind is from Les Brown. It's his famous, you gotta be hungry. Right? Yeah. Because I think he was he was in the Georgia Dome. It was some sometime probably in, like, in the late eighties, maybe early nineties, and it's a speech that Five first watched probably 2014, maybe 2015, and it to me, in my opinion, is the best speech I've ever seen, ever written, like, I've, to this day.
Alex Dumas [00:16:13]:
Right? I still come to it, and I still find inspiration from it. I still find nuggets from it. So that as part of an audio and seeing myself, right, seeing that model then and having this vision, this dream for myself of maybe I could do that. What would it be five if I were in front of a stadium full of people? You know, MetLife Stadium. I'm from New York originally, so I think about Giant Stadium. Like, wow. What would it be like if I could be there or Madison Square Garden? So that's one piece of content. The other book that I would say has greatly influenced my work as coaches called The Prosperous Coach that's was written by Steve Chandler and Rich Lipman, and it helped me it it connected with me in a space that it helped me slow down and look at authentic connections with people.
Alex Dumas [00:16:59]:
Because a lot of my early work as a coach was kind of spray and pray, kinda hunt and try to kill and get attention, look at me, and and be impressive. And what I recognize is the distinction of me being impressed Stuart doesn't allow this other person to be expressive. And when the when I work with clients, when I work with people, the thing they really want the most to know is just, do you understand me? Do you get me? Do you see me? Do you understand where I'm coming from? And if I can do that and create a safety for themselves to, you know, just kind of share a little bit more and shed the skin and get the pretenses on them, really get down to who they are and what they're they're looking to do. Miracles occur. That's the best I can call. So Prosper's Coach and that Les Brown talk, you gotta be hungry have been 2 massively influential pieces of content that have shaped who I am.
Stuart Webb [00:17:51]:
Alex, thank you so much. Alex, thank you for spending a few minutes with us. And I guess at the moment, you must be thinking there's a question that he hasn't asked and you really should five asked it by now. So what's the question that I should have asked you? And, obviously, if you were gonna ask a really intelligent question like that, you better give us a really good answer to it. So what is the question that you would don't think that I have asked properly?
Alex Dumas [00:18:15]:
Now this point isn't your fault specifically, but I think a good question that right. I'm gonna put the blame game on. But, all jokes aside, I think the I think the valuable question here would be, how do we help black leaders, black and brown leaders, ascend? Right? I think that's a great question that could be asked, and lucky for you, I have an answer for that. And that specifically is a 1 on 1 container that I I I've created called Ascension. So play on words. You can be like, oh my goodness, Alex. You're cheeky. Yeah.
Alex Dumas [00:18:51]:
Alright. I'm clever. I love to do fun things like that. But Ascension is this it's a 12 week intimate conversation with somebody and looking at helping them advance in their career and helping them to develop themselves as leaders, helping them to build the best practices of building relationships and and networking and building their confidence and looking at their life's work. I don't necessarily subscribe to this thought of work five balance because here I am right now, I'm speaking with you, Stuart. That means I'm ignoring my family. I'm ignoring my kids, Not because I'm bad or I'm a, you know, mean dad, but because my attention is focused on you and my work and also for you, whoever's watching, whoever's listening. My impact right now, I'm focused on you.
Alex Dumas [00:19:38]:
And then when I'm done, I'll be complete, and I'll move on to my family. But the things we've spoken up beef about before about how do we make impact, how do we embrace ourselves authentically, how do we create financial freedom, these are pieces of what Ascension looks like, and it's gonna be this elite edge for black men in business. This opportunity for them to just have that that thing, that one thing that separates them. I don't wanna say the competition, but separates them from holding themselves back and and it's a a beautiful offering that I five to invite anyone listening to to experience for themselves and create major major awareness and breakthroughs for their life and their business. So that's how we can help people ascend.
Stuart Webb [00:20:26]:
Alex, I love I love I love the fact that you've been cheeky about that, and thank you for having a clever answer to a to a question that I didn't didn't ask properly. So, Alex, I really wanna thank you for spending a few minutes with us. I know now you can go and take your focus off talking to silly people like me, and you can go and concentrate on something important like your family and your kids. And, I know you've got 2 2 kids, I think, haven't you? So you can get out there and you can you can go and enjoy your time with them rather than be, rather than be focusing on us. But thank you for spending a few minutes with us and telling us a bit about how you have, overcome those thought processes and how you're helping others to do exactly the same thing to to plow that fat path. Listen, people. I'm gonna wrap up with Alex now because he's got other things to do. If you would like to hear from, from me every week with a with an update on who's coming on to the show next week.
Stuart Webb [00:21:21]:
I send out one every week. And if you wanna do that, if you can go to the HTTP thing, link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. You can come on and, spend a few minutes, just listening to really inspiring talking points from people as inspiring as Alex. And, Alex, I wanna just thank you, for coming on and spending a few minutes. Really appreciate the effort you've taken, and, I wish you I wish you get out and spend some time with your kids because, they're as important as anything else you you're doing at the moment.
Alex Dumas [00:22:02]:
No. Much appreciated. And I'll say this, there's nothing been silly about this conversation. I love the questions. I love your energy, and thank you for inviting me onto this program and for my work. If this is influential, this is supporting, you know, at least over person. Alright? That that sounds like a cliche, but, really, if it helps moves one person, then I've done my job. I've I've served in a way that I know how to do best, and I'm gonna spend some time with the family then get back to doing what I do best, making a difference, and contributing.
Stuart Webb [00:22:33]:
I'm with you on that, Alex. If we can help one person, that's Webb person that we've, we've pushed a little bit further. And who knows? They will take the they they will take us on further. So thank you very much for spending 8 minutes with us.
Alex Dumas [00:22:45]:
You're welcome. Thank you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Billy Schwer (ep. 106)
27 jun· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Billy?
Billy Schwer is a renowned world champion boxer turned leadership coach. With his expertise in boxing, he helps individuals develop a winning mindset to succeed in their personal and professional lives. Despite facing his own health challenges, Billy remains dedicated to inspiring and motivating others through his speaking engagements and coaching services. His resilience and determination make him a powerful force in the world of leadership development.
Key Takeaways
00:00 World champion boxer teaches leadership through mindset.
05:28 Striving for natural wellness despite discomfort.
08:14 Important lesson: adapt energy and communication style.
11:55 Boxer breaks stereotypes, faces post-retirement challenges.
14:57 Early midlife crisis led to boxing retirement.
19:11 Love yourself, share the available life.
22:08 Focus on the future, let go of the past.
23:38 I want the world to hear about it.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Download a copy of Billy’s book FREE at www.billyschwer.com/book or an audio version at www.billyschwer.com/free-audio
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/IJxKjJitHj0?feature=share
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
world champion boxer, warm up, business leaders, mindset, fear, competition, inspirational, motivational speaker, teamwork, individual, team, potential, self-improvement, frequency of vibration, mindset, brain health, Samaritan, mental boxing, mental health, future, identity crisis, depression, bankruptcy, Landmark Forum, team support, positivity, newsletter, insights, life lessons, business owners
SPEAKERS
Billy Schwer, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:19]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science. Five questions over. I've got a copy. Billy's got one. Billy, this is gonna be a brilliant conversation. I'm really looking forward to this man. Billy Stuart, he is a world champion boxer. As you can tell, he's doing his he's doing his warm up now.
Stuart Webb [00:00:35]:
I'm gonna be
Stuart Webb [00:00:36]:
in trouble. Up. I'm
Stuart Webb [00:00:38]:
ready. I'm gonna be in trouble with this one. Billy, world champion, but he's turned what he knows about boxing into helping you become a better leader because he can help you change your mindset to the mindset he had to have as a world champion boxer. If you can imagine not having the fear of being boxed out of a ring by your business and taking on your competition and taking them on in a way that you will not only believe is possible, but this man can take on the world. Billy, it is my absolute pleasure to have you here on it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee. I'm really looking forward to this because you are such an inspirational motivational speaker. Thank you for spending a few minutes with us, and I know we've had to sort of put this one back a bit because you weren't well. So I hope you're feeling really good.
Billy Schwer [00:01:28]:
I'm 10 out of 10 today for you right now. I am a 10 out of 10. And it's it's not rocket science. It is science. The sweet science as Boxed is well known. The noble art and the sweet science. Yes. It is
Stuart Webb [00:01:43]:
Listen. I am gonna have so much I five so much trouble keeping this man inside of this box. Listen, Billy, tell us. What is it? You you know, who is it you're trying to help with this? Because you I mean, you know, you've you've gone from boxing. You you you you know, you're now a really motivational, inspirational speaker. Who is it you're trying to help, or what is it you're trying to teach them?
Billy Schwer [00:02:05]:
Basically, it's business leaders and teams. So what I'm all about, inspiring and empowering leaders, teams, individuals to be able to punch above their weight, win more often, and experience more success in all that they do. So that's the context of what I'm all about. And the work that I do is such that it it allows for something else to show up within them. So we're all individuals, but we're all in a team as well because we all know without teamwork, the dream don't work. But we are an individual, so we that's the I focus on the individual within the team and the team as a whole. If everyone's aligned and everyone's boxing clever, moving towards a desired outcome as a as a unit, results can get caused. And it's starting from here, and it's being fully responsible for that.
Billy Schwer [00:03:04]:
And that's what I do. I get people to really look at themselves, and let's let's have a little look Stuart. I mean, the common question I ask people, where are you on a scale of 0 to 10? The listeners out there, where are you today on a scale of 0 to 10? 0 being bang knocked out on the canvas, 10 feeling like the champion of the world. So you'll you'll have a number. And, Stuart, you'll have a number. Yeah. Webb a number. So what my intention is is to really elevate whatever that number is.
Billy Schwer [00:03:37]:
Because a lot of people that I work with, there may be a 4, 5, 6. So if you're walking around operating at 50, 60% of your potential, that's what I like to do. I like to unravel what's in the way such that people can have this energy, this frequency of vibration, and operate in all areas of their life from a different frequency because things are gonna occur different if you got your if you raise your game. So my it's looking at what's in the way of people experiencing a 10 out of 10, an 8, a 9, a 10 out of 10. And that's the kind of work that I do as an individual, but as teams as well.
Stuart Webb [00:04:18]:
So, Billy, let's just, let me just just just ask. And and it sort of combined with my second question, which is sort of what people done before to try and get them out of this tent. We all know that some days you feel like a 10. Some days you feel like a 0. So how do you get up every single day and make yourself 10 out of 10? Because you can't get into a boxing ring and feel like you're a 0 because you will immediately get knocked out, won't you?
Billy Schwer [00:04:42]:
So what so I had a 138 fights in total as an amateur and a professional. So I had 45 professional fights. Winning the British, the Commonwealth, and eventually the world championships are my 4th attempt. So there were occasions where I stepped up into the ring, and I wasn't a 10 out of 10. So I've got a knack. I've trained myself Webb required to be able to generate the energy to go and do what I need to do. So I've that I'm conditioned to do that, but sometimes I don't always feel that way. So sometimes in life, we have to kinda step up and raise up and kind of generate ourselves to go and do the task ahead of us.
Billy Schwer [00:05:28]:
But what we want to try and do is to feel naturally more near a 10 out and just more naturally. And I don't wake up every day at 10 out of 10. Webb, I can generate a so I so my day to day, I've I've I've I've meditated, I've hydrated, I've been for a run, I've done some work. That's before Five I'm engaged in my conversation with you. So I've I know I didn't really wanna go for a run this morning because it hurts. It's hard. What makes you feel me? And I'm running and I'm thinking, Webb, I really wanna be out here running. And it's five, sometimes Webb just gotta we gotta wake up to the fact Webb gotta do things we don't always wanna do.
Billy Schwer [00:06:12]:
And that's the being responsible. As a fighter, stepping up into the ring, without teamwork the dream don't work. Without the without the team behind me, there was no way I could go and get into the ring. But when the bell goes, the team, they all step backwards out of the out of the ring, and we step forward. So there is no place to hide. You can run, but you can't hide. So we have to wake up to the fact of this is my life. This is it.
Billy Schwer [00:06:39]:
This is my challenge. This is my battle, and I can't I five to be fully responsible for it. I can't I'm not a victim. Don't be a victim. You gotta wake up to the fact of you are it. You are the one that you've been waiting for. The cavalry is not coming to save you. So then it's five, we have to surround ourselves with a supportive network of teams, and we have to look at ourselves, our mindset, lots of people neglect.
Billy Schwer [00:07:10]:
And it's the taking care of the mindset, our own brain health, what we feed ourselves, who we talk to, what we read, what we listen to, who are we, what we what we doing, what we up to. And that's kind of what I have to connect with. Yeah. Now I volunteer Yeah. I volunteer as a Samaritan. I know you know the Samaritan, Stuart.
Stuart Webb [00:07:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Billy Schwer [00:07:32]:
So Billy the boxer I have to leave Billy the boxer at the door. When I go and do a shift for the Samaritans, I have to tune in to a different Billy because Billy the boxer is is of no use to the callers. So it's being able to adapt and be aware of different parts of ourselves to tap into when required. And a lot of the time, I do rest. I recuperate. I'll go and have a lie down. I so, so important. Nourishment, food is so important for us to then be able to turn on when required because we can't be on all the time because that's stressful.
Stuart Webb [00:08:14]:
Billy, these are really important lessons because what you're talking about is how you bring that sort of energy, that sort of natural way of thinking to different situations in business. And and and business leaders are very poor at doing that, listening, if you like, to the environment, you know, like you were talking about the I mean, the Samaritan situation and I'm in the sales situation. They bring the same person. And what you've just really highlighted is important to bringing different bits of your energy, different bits of your personality, and making it adapt. I mean and I often say that the problem that we have is that we believe communication is about what we do, but it's not. Communication is what what the listener does, about what the person receiving the communication does. And if we end up speaking to them in the wrong tone, we end up speaking to them in the wrong way, it's a bit like one of your punches. One of your punches had to land in the right way, didn't it, in order to have any effect.
Stuart Webb [00:09:13]:
Pointless punching somebody in the wrong way because it doesn't actually do what it needs to do. It's just a waste of your energy. You five to tune it to exactly what you needed to do at the time. And you're right. Sorry to bring the boxing back in, but I thought it was important.
Billy Schwer [00:09:28]:
Stuart, you're so right. And it's the communication because we're we're communicating all the five, and it's not necessary language. It's body language. It's tone. It's how we're how we're presenting ourselves and how we're feeling. So the feeling from within so if your frequency is raised, you're gonna be just different. So if you're walking into sales environments, business meetings, an 8, 9, elevate itself, it's gonna be different. The communications, you're gonna be in tune.
Billy Schwer [00:09:59]:
And I meditate because what that allows to be it's like I have a heightened state. When I meditate and I do breath work, I energize my brain. And, honestly, it's like an intellectual upgrade that I have. I could experience it. My language is different. My articulation is different. It just raises myself up, and that's available for us all. If and I've been I've been playing about all of this stuff for over 20 years now, tweaking it, looking at it, what works, what doesn't work, wherever I come from.
Billy Schwer [00:10:34]:
And, obviously, I've got all that boxing experience, but there's all the life outside of boxing experience that I tap into as well. And it's relatable. Boxing's a great metaphor for business. It's not rocket science, but it's some kind of science, and it's it all kinda works, and it all kinda blends together, and it's all relatable.
Stuart Webb [00:10:54]:
Billy, this is just brilliant stuff. So I'm gonna move us on to threat question 3. Now I know that you've got a book, I can see it over there behind your shoulder. I know you give that book away free. Yeah. So tell me, how can somebody get hold of that book to understand what they're talk what
Billy Schwer [00:11:13]:
you're talking about now and start to apply it to their life? Yeah. So we're gonna have a link so you guys can go and you can have the book. You can download the book, or you can download the audio of the book if you prefer listening. I I listen to lots of book. So I'm in the process of writing another book because Man Up Man Up was created from my own experience of being a man down. So I don't wanna offend anyone with the name because Man Up can be misconstrued. It's words on a on a page which can trigger people. So I don't wanna offend anyone with man up because it's not what you think it is.
Billy Schwer [00:11:55]:
And I may be not who you think I am. So being a boxer, you may have a preconceived opinion of me, bashing people up, having all those fights, broken noses, and having that the ability to go into the ring prepared to die, kill or be killed. Now that would kind of paint a kind of a picture, but I'm hoping that just by listening to this conversation that you get to sell maybe there's there's more to a boxer. There's more to Billy than kind of meets the eye of what a professional boxer is. And so man, I because on my retirement from the professional boxing ring, I found that transition, Stuart, to be very difficult. I went through depression. I went through an identity crisis. I went had a mental breakdown.
Billy Schwer [00:12:43]:
I wrecked my marriage. I went through a divorce. I had my home repossessed. I went bankrupt. I lost everything. I crashed and burned. I I was suicidal. Hence, why I volunteer for the Samaritans because I know what it feels like to be in a crisis because I was there not so long ago.
Billy Schwer [00:13:05]:
And I've done the work. I've unraveled Billy the Over to be free from all the constraints that life was opposing on me, my self inflicted challenges. And that's when I put those words together, mental boxing because I was mentally having a mental boxing match with myself. And then the world that I've been doing over the last 20 years is all about transforming ourselves such that we can feel different. Because when I was in the depths of despair, I all I kept saying to myself, Stuart, was, I just wanna feel good. I just I just wanna feel good. I wanna feel good because I've I was knocked out. I was a 0 ad.
Stuart Webb [00:13:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's and and look, and this is this is such an inspirational Stuart, and I've I've got the the the the link on this. And I'm gonna go back to this. This will be in the transcript and the show notes for this. But if you need to get hold of this book, it's Billy Schwarr, that's www.billlyshwer.com slash book. Or if you want the audio book, it's the same thing, b I, double l, y s c h w e r dot com /freehyphenaudio. Both of those links will be on the the YouTube, the LinkedIn, and everything else.
Stuart Webb [00:14:25]:
But, Billy, that that's a really it's a really inspirational Stuart. And I think it does demonstrate how your your your thought process produces the results, doesn't it? It is all about how you approach a situation. And and and a lot of business people today, and I I I speak to a lot of business owners who are wanting to sell their business. And it leads them into depression because it's a loss of their identity.
Billy Schwer [00:14:52]:
Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:14:53]:
And and you went through it. You know how to get through that.
Billy Schwer [00:14:57]:
I I went through a a midlife crisis very early. As those as the guys that you mentioned about, they sell their business and we've become so attached to our past, and then we identify with that. And then once that's gone, as I went through, I'm no longer Billy the over. And it's when I was in the back of the ambulance on the way to hospital for the second five, that was that was when I realized that my life as I know it is over. And that was the moment that I made the toughest decision I've ever made to retire from boxing. Because I was in the back of the ambulance, and I was frightened because boxing professional boxing can be dangerous. I had a friend of mine killed in the ring. I know guys that have been permanently brain damaged.
Billy Schwer [00:15:43]:
And I'm in the back of the ambulance, and I'm uncertain of my future health. So it's that relationship with that part of ourselves and letting go of it I found so difficult. And you hear about that, like, you you you mentioned about business owners selling, exiting their business, and then they go through a similar thing. Lots of athletes, we all go with people at the services. They go through a similar thing, and it's supporting ourselves post whatever of the life that we've chosen. And then the the struggle for me was the reinvention, the recreation of myself. Because who am I? I was Billy the boxer. Now here I am.
Billy Schwer [00:16:24]:
I'm just Billy. Who's Billy? I don't know who Billy is. And that was the wake up. So I had to get conscious. I was unconscious. But then what happened with me was I I become a victim of my situation, of my circumstances, my divorce, my bankruptcy. I become a victim of it, which had me feel depressed, broke me. It broke me because I didn't have a future to live into.
Billy Schwer [00:16:52]:
There was boxing was no longer a future for me, and I didn't know what to do with myself. And that was the challenge. And I pursued lots of different things trying to find my thing and myself, and that was the challenge.
Stuart Webb [00:17:06]:
Billy, I'm really glad you found yourself. And, you know, it there must have been, you know, you've talked a bit about sort of the work you do with Samaritan. There must if was there a particular course or something which actually brought you from Billy the over to the person that we see in front of us today? What was the thing that moved you into that?
Billy Schwer [00:17:24]:
I've done a lot of work over the last 20 years. I've worked with masters in various different fields. And but, originally, what what really started this journey off was I did a program called the Landmark Forum. Now I did the Landmark Forum, I'll never forget it, of August 2003. I'm in a room. There's about a 150 people for 3 days. It was the first time Five experienced this kind of training. Now, you gotta remember, I've been a world champion.
Billy Schwer [00:17:55]:
I've had sports psychology. I've I've done all of that. I'm sitting in a room now, and I'm going through a tough five. And the conversation was over a weekend about what it is to be a human being. It's the ontology, ontological, the study of the art and science of being. So I which and I got to see who I was being in life. And let me tell you, Stuart, it wasn't pretty. Mhmm.
Billy Schwer [00:18:18]:
It wasn't pretty. What the traits that had me become a world champion had me winning the boxing ring. I was aggressive. I was domineering. I was selfish. I was inconsiderate. I was always right. Rah.
Billy Schwer [00:18:30]:
Rah. Those traits work perfectly well in the boxing arena, but it didn't work for me in my life.
Stuart Webb [00:18:38]:
Mhmm. Yeah.
Billy Schwer [00:18:39]:
Ask my ex wife. She'll tell you. It it didn't be anything else. I was that identity. But the Landmark forum, what it allowed for me was it started to just the future I didn't have a future. I started to the future started to occur different, and things started to just change for me. And the way that I was perceiving life and the future shifted and changed, and then things changed. And that's the journey that I've been on for the last over it's over 20 years I've been on that on that journey.
Billy Schwer [00:19:11]:
And what I've got for myself or what I've learned, I want other people to experience what I'm experiencing because it's available for each and every one of us. You don't have to it's it's it's available. If you're willing and you want to wake up and do the work, and it ain't easy because I didn't used to five myself. I'd never used to I didn't like myself because I was that those certain traits that I had, they weren't five, and they Webb they didn't work for me. And it was like so now I can I can honestly say that I love myself? I do love myself, and I love I love the life that I'm creating, the future that I'm living into, and that that's that's that's what I've got. And I've created it, and I am it, and it's available.
Stuart Webb [00:19:57]:
That is that that's so inspiring. And and, you know, I I so hope that that we can get this message to as many people as they possibly can because this is such a brilliant message. And I suppose it leads me to my last questions, and I'm gonna let you get on because you've got a life to lead. You've got other people to influence. And I wanna help you do it, but there must be one question that I haven't asked you that you want me to ask. And and so, therefore, what's that question I should five asked you? And, obviously, you've got to answer it because I don't know the question yet.
Billy Schwer [00:20:30]:
And I think we're kinda touching it, but if I may reiterate because
Stuart Webb [00:20:35]:
it's
Billy Schwer [00:20:36]:
so, so powerful is the question that you wanna ask me that I wish you would five asked me is is, Billy, how do you get to experience life as a tenant then?
Stuart Webb [00:20:46]:
That's a good question.
Billy Schwer [00:20:47]:
Yeah. So then so so that is we kind of touched on it in the last conversation, and it's it's I'm really clear this is so, so powerful. It's about focusing on the future, not the past. Because what I got stuck in was looking into the past. So the future will dictate for you how you feel in the present moment. Now when I retired boxing, the future that I was living into was dark. It was chaotic. It was painful.
Billy Schwer [00:21:18]:
So that kind of future, you can see that that would have an impact on how I feel. It kinda makes sense, doesn't it? To live it if somebody was living into chaotic, dark, painful futures, that's gonna have them feel a certain way. So the way forward is is to focus on the future, but really be responsible for designing, creating, causing, and generating that future. The dreams that we want, the futures that we wanna create, they sometimes feel a long way away, which I know what that's like. It took me 4 attempts to win the world title. Webb when I was getting bashed up in the ring, in the gym, time after time losing, I was trying my hardest, but I I was getting knocked back. And we all experience five. We get knocked back.
Billy Schwer [00:22:08]:
We don't always win, but we wanna win more often. It takes you gotta keep coming back, and it's and it's the focus in on that future, which is so, so powerful because we have to let the past go. Take the questions, learn the lessons, bring them into the future with you, but don't bring that past that you don't like or that you don't like about yourself. Don't bring that into the future because that's what we keep bumping into. We have to draw a line in the sand, create, design the dream future, which sounds a bit woo woo, but we are we are it. And we are the Webb are we are the one that we've been waiting for. So it's surrounding yourself with people who can support that for you. With that teamwork, the dream don't work, and that's so crucial.
Billy Schwer [00:22:59]:
Get the right team around you. And that's what's you experience life in some other way that you've got right now.
Stuart Webb [00:23:07]:
Billy, that is I mean, it's not only a lesson for life. It is a less, I mean, you know, Webb we've talked about how you can help business owners. Getting the team around you that can actually help you is the most crucial thing. You can't do everything on your own. You need the team, but you need to approach it with that positivity that you've just given up. You need to approach it by thinking about the right Billy, the right person to get in there. Billy, I can't I can't even begin to tell you how grateful I am for the fact you've spent a few minutes with me. This has been a brilliant conversation.
Stuart Webb [00:23:38]:
I've really enjoyed it, and I just want the whole world to hear about it. So I'm gonna help this get out to the entire world. And listen, if anybody's listening that wants to be able to hear this sort of thing, we do these on a Tuesday. If you know people that wanna wanna hear about this, please get on to my newsletter list so that you can get to hear about brilliant people like Billy who come on and give up their time to talk about this sort of thing. To get onto the news, you go to this, which is link. Thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link dot the complete approach.co.ukforward/newsletter. Get onto the newsletter list and and come on and and listen to the brilliance of people like Billy.
Stuart Webb [00:24:23]:
Billy, I can't thank you enough for just spending a few minutes with us. I know you're a really busy guy, and you've got so much experience that that, you know, coming on and doing this has been a has been 20 minutes out of your time that you could probably have used really well. But thank you for coming and spending this few minutes and giving up these these brilliant insights. And and listen, go on go on. Be another 10 today because you're the most inspiring guy I know.
Billy Schwer [00:24:51]:
Stuart, it's been an absolute pleasure to spend some time with you. It's always a pleasure to have a conversation with you. So thank you.
Stuart Webb [00:24:59]:
No problem. Thank you very much.
Billy Schwer [00:25:02]:
And thank you. Can I just
Stuart Webb [00:25:04]:
Go? I'm sorry. I nearly cut you off.
Billy Schwer [00:25:07]:
Yeah. You cut me off. I wanna say, Stuart, I want to the listeners out there, go and subscribe because Stuart is up to something. And you're you're sharing with us, you're bringing to us all these extraordinary people who've got amazing stories. So, Stuart, I wanna acknowledge you for the contribution that you are to us all. So thank you. Thank you.
Stuart Webb [00:25:33]:
Thank you, sir.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Ekua Cant (ep. 105)
30 maj· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Ekua?
Ekua Cant is a passionate entrepreneur who loves helping others in their business journey through the use of LinkedIn. She enjoys working with entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, and freelancers, whether they are just starting out or looking to scale their business and who might use LinkedIn better. Ekua is dedicated to guiding people through the challenges and excitement of building their business, and she is committed to helping established business owners stay on top of their game and grow their brand with LinkedIn. With her expertise and enthusiasm, Ekua is a valuable resource for anyone looking to succeed in the world of entrepreneurship.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Passionate about helping entrepreneurs and solopreneurs.
05:32 Custom links on LinkedIn help profile visibility.
09:07 Featured section should include linked story, testimonial, offer.
11:35 LinkedIn loves selfies and face photos. Celebrations too.
13:45 Confidence and clarity in offering services.
16:59 Caution against misrepresenting oneself when using AI.
21:10 Expressing gratitude for valuable insights and advice.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Download a valuable resource at https://www.linkedin.com/posts/make-your-profile-stand-out_5-words-thatll-help-you-win-at-linkedin-activity-7193844607917449217-W4vH/?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_event%3B5cOMd%2BKZSMWST1BuH8rk4w%3D%3D
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/IJxKjJitHj0?feature=share
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
LinkedIn, social media, profile optimization, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, freelancers, business, LinkedIn profile, mistakes, banner, open to work, custom link, headline, value, sales, AI, consistency, followers, engagement, newsletter, community building, branding, content, lead generation, networking, coaching, mentorship, strategy, optimization, customer journey, digital presence
SPEAKERS
Ekua Cant, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions Over Coffee. I'm absolutely delighted today to be joined by Jackie Norton. Now they always say, if you want to improve, if you want to get better in your business, you should employ people who are better than you, and that's how I feel about my guest today. I am really delighted to be having a conversation with Jackie who has a far more impressive portfolio of of businesses and interests than I have met, and so I'm really, really delighted, Jacqui, you found time in your diary to come and join us for a few minutes. Jacqui is what they call the unretirement speaker. She revealed facts and the reality about retirement in the 2020s for the boomers and how to get to your 100 year lifespan. She mentors and supports entrepreneurs who need to pivot and grow, and if she hasn't got enough going on, she's also the MD of a business whose mission is to change the narrative around the 50 plus woman, to become the invisible increasingly disappear at that age, and she's there to change that. And and that therefore means that what is throughout all of her career, what throughout all of her passion is that of change, changing individuals, changing businesses.
Stuart Webb [00:01:36]:
The need for change, managing change, and working out what is required is absolutely one of the critical bits of business that we need in the world today. So, Jackie, delighted you've spent time to come and spend a few minutes with us. Thank you so much for for being on It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions, Over Coffee.
Jackie Naghten [00:01:52]:
Well, thank you very much, Stuart. I hope it isn't rocket science. I hope it's not complicated as that.
Stuart Webb [00:01:59]:
No. Nothing is complicated than that. Look, Jacqui, let's start. You talk about being an unretirement speaker. You talk about, leading them. Tell us, what is it? Who who is it that you're trying to help? I guess it's obvious, but what who is it you're trying to help to understand the these changes that you're bringing to the world?
Jackie Naghten [00:02:15]:
Well, I think like most things in life, when you have any, you know, successful people, across all sorts of businesses and disciplines, and they tell their life story. Usually things happen because of what's happened in their lives, isn't it? You know, so you tend to look at yourself and think, well, this has happened to me. You know, I'm sure it must be happening to other people. So in the case of unretirement, I'm in my sixties now. And as I've approached that time and it sort of comes upon you, you know, you're bumbling along in your forties and next thing great. So you're gonna retire now? And I'm like, no. I don't want to retire. You know, what am I gonna do? And so I started to investigate this whole idea about not retiring because when I really thought about it for myself, I thought, you know, because retirement sounds like giving up, finishing, stopping.
Jackie Naghten [00:03:05]:
It feels like the end of life and I didn't feel like that at all. And I think particularly for women Webb we've had, a lot of time caring responsibilities, you know, juggling careers, suddenly as you get to your sixties, you actually have the time that you've always wanted to do things. So I started to investigate this whole issue of unretirement, which I I came up with. And then I found that actually exists out there and people are talking about on retirement, which is really, it's actually been coined by people who are actually returning to the workforce. So they've retired and then they've spent a couple of years in retirement, had a couple of cruises, done an extension, and then they're bored and they've come back. Because the truth of the matter is that for we boomers, and let's be honest, the boomers, we've been a quite a pioneering generation. We are now this is a final frontier for us, pioneering this move into older age. And, typically, as boomers, we're knowing it like it.
Jackie Naghten [00:04:03]:
So we question it. We're having a different, approach to it. We five a different lived experience, in our lives. I mean, certainly from the female point of view, a lot of us have had careers and brought up families, which, you know, wasn't wasn't didn't happen, you know, 50, 100 years ago. So we're a pioneering generation, and it's all changing. And we can see the rock stars are still rocking. The screenwriters are still writing, the actors are still acting well into their eighties nineties. So it's all changing.
Jackie Naghten [00:04:29]:
And so it's against that backdrop that I speak about on retirement.
Stuart Webb [00:04:33]:
And I think that's a really interesting point, Jacqui, because one of the things you just sort of talked about there is it's the experience that you bring. The the the the the fact of matter is that the the people who five retire often know better than anybody coming through all those things that do work and don't work and how to make that change the most practical, the most effective, as they can be. And and it's often that experience that we lose when people just sort of go Webb go off and do the cruises and spend time at home.
Jackie Naghten [00:05:03]:
Some people are very happily retired. Since you were 16. You can't physically do the job, you know, be a roofer anymore or whatever. And some and some many people are very happy to retire and focus on family and different things. But there's an awful lot of us who don't want to do that, and there's an awful lot of people who can't do that because the retirement, the state pension age is going up. And let's be honest, not many of us can live on that state pension. It's sort of more of a, you know, it's about a £1,000 a month. If you've got 25 years to live in retirement, a £1,000 a month isn't going to give you a very, exciting stimulating life.
Jackie Naghten [00:05:48]:
So, you know, that's the facts of the matter. So we've seen it for some time that our pensioners are going back into the workforce to supplement their income. But places like B&Q, you know, have taken on older people with all their experience, etcetera. But it's actually a much bigger issue now, and we're going to have by, I think, Webb about 50, 50% of the workforce is going to be over 50. Mhmm. And so there's a couple of things going on. First of all, there's a thing for people personally, what they want to do in it the birth rate's dropping, and they're suddenly waking up to the fact they might need older people. But meanwhile, what we know is 50 plus people are finding it incredibly difficult to get back into the workforce because there is a generational, sexist, a generational ageism going on, which is the last frontier of sort of, equality in the workplace, which is something that we at noon, with my other hat on, are working on.
Jackie Naghten [00:06:44]:
So, you know, my unretirement interest and speaking about unretirement kind of has a very nice crossover with the the work I do at noon, which is all about the 50 plus women who are very keen to get back to work and think about what they're going to do as they pivot in the midlife.
Stuart Webb [00:07:00]:
And I'm so glad you brought noon in because I was about to ask, of course, what is what is noon? And so therefore, let's let's move on to sort of what it is therefore then that you've seen people who are trying to sort of cope with this on retirement. You've mentioned a couple of times people who've retired and it's not for them, so they've gone back to work. What is it that you you are trying to do to help them with that with that transition? How do you how do you help people to understand whether or not retirement is right for them?
Jackie Naghten [00:07:26]:
Well, I think, I think what we have to think about is very simple. It's what gets you out of bed in the middle? What gets you out of bed in the morning? And what doesn't get me out of bed in the morning is just thinking, oh, I'm going to see some friends for lunch and I'll maybe go to the gym later. I mean, I'm not saying that's not nice to do, but I I it's lacking a sort of purpose, a sort of satisfaction. That's what I found, you know, because I I did have a period of time when I had cancer and that enforced me to have a a year off. And I and and and while you're not very Webb, obviously, I was so frustrated because I couldn't do anything. You know, I hadn't got any point, you know, I couldn't work and all these things. And so I'm just somebody, and there's lots of us around who just like like working. I mean, lots of people work in volunteer positions because they just want to have a purpose.
Jackie Naghten [00:08:11]:
And what we know, I think it's Sigmund Freud who said, you know, there's 2 main things in life out of all of this is love and work, which is really purpose and human connection. And that, you know, that's what working can give you and that's what we as humans, you know, on the whole keeps us going. So, you know, when I say work, it doesn't necessarily have to be financially rewarding work. It could be all sorts of things, but it's finding purpose. And I think that's where people quite often need help. Because as we all know, when we try and write about ourself market, it's very difficult doing that yourself. It's much more helpful if you do it with somebody else who can interpret how you are. And that's where coaching or mentoring comes in because, I can work with people, and they they may be let's say they've been an accountant for 20, 30 years.
Jackie Naghten [00:09:00]:
All they can think about is, like, well, I'm very good with numbers. I can do accountancy, but I don't want to do it anymore. And it's very difficult for them to think, what are the other possibilities. So what I'm very good at is thinking creatively with people about the other skills and strengths that they might have that could take them in a different direction.
Stuart Webb [00:09:17]:
Takes us in so many directions actually. So I think you're absolutely right. The the meaningful connections is hugely important. I think biologists are now beginning to discuss or, you know, you you hear in the media that, loneliness can be the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And Having those meaningful connections can extend your lifespan.
Jackie Naghten [00:09:35]:
I mean, I have to say, I have looked into an article about that. It's a slightly typically, as as you can imagine, typically, a sort of convoluted piece of data when you, you know, get underneath it because it it's not that simple, but loneliness is is an epidemic, you know. And as we live longer I mean, I'm widowed myself. As we live longer, divorce a lot of people are getting divorced in their fifties and sixties because they're thinking, if they're living till they're five and they have a non satisfactory relationship, they're actually getting divorced in their sixties, which is another reason why people often need to work because the financial pots got smaller, etcetera, etcetera. And also for women who were divorced and on their own, typically men tend to find another partner, women perhaps not. They want to go to work or they might not have worked for 10, 15 years. And so, you know, and they have no idea. You know, jobs have changed.
Jackie Naghten [00:10:26]:
The workplace has changed tremendously. And and so it's a little bit scary for, people when they're older to go back into, but they're quite keen to have that connection and to have some purpose.
Stuart Webb [00:10:38]:
So so, Jackie, if we if we if we now look at what how people can get in contact with you, I think I think you've given us your LinkedIn, your LinkedIn, and and the the Noon, which is the organization. Are there are there things that they'll find there that could be helping them to understand this transition that you're talking to people about?
Jackie Naghten [00:11:05]:
Well, certainly at noon, we have a lot of resources on there. We cover divorce, bereavement, cancer, job searching, all of those sorts of things. And there's lots of uplifting stories about, you know, all this because what we learn from in life is stories and it's always interesting to hear somebody else's Stuart. Yeah. And particularly if you're going through a tough time in your life, so for myself, I've got a you know, my story was my husband was diagnosed with a very with a terminal illness when I was 42. And I had to pivot. I had to change everything in my life. My life literally went up in the air, and I had to reinvent myself.
Jackie Naghten [00:11:40]:
I had to give up my corporate job. I went out into the world and became a consultant just based on networking really, you know, without any plan or thought. And so I've learned to market myself. I learned that I had skills I didn't realize I had, and this is I think the point of coaching, etcetera, you know, where you can you've actually got skills you don't realize you have because you think all you can do is add up numbers if, you know, do a balance sheet in accountancy. But, actually, you've got loads of other skills as well. And, actually, these are leading, problem solving, these sorts of skills, which you can apply to all sorts of things. So, you know, if you go to Noon you can find out about the Midlife Women. If you just come to my LinkedIn and connect with me then, I'm more than happy to, you know, I get all sorts of people who I meet, day to day and for various speaking engagements approaching me saying, can you help with this? Can you help with that? Because I've also worked with a lot of entrepreneurs and it's, you know, whether it's a business or a person, quite often a business falters and stutters and it might need to be reinvented or might need to take a different turn.
Jackie Naghten [00:12:49]:
And again, when you're the founder and the owner, it's quite difficult working that out. You need someone from outside to help you work that through.
Stuart Webb [00:12:57]:
Yes. Jackie, is is there a is there a a book or or course that, that really sort of helped you to understand how the unretirement world is beginning to become the new the new retire the the new work?
Jackie Naghten [00:13:13]:
Well, there's a there's a couple of things. I mean, we are, we are shortly going to be running courses at noon, about this. We're working on those at the Moment. I've got a book here which I came across or designing and I came across this about 10 years ago. I mean, that's an old version there. And it was written by 2 guys in, I think it's Stanford University in America, Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. And it absolutely fascinated me because I'm a brand person. And so because my background is retail and consumer brands.
Jackie Naghten [00:13:47]:
And, when you when you talk about brands, you're talking about brands have a sort of personality and they have values, etcetera. And what this book did, it actually looked to people as if they were brands. And so it really resonated with me. Because, actually, these days, people, you know, there's lots of chat about, you know, people talk about their personal brand. And your personal brand is just how you come how you present to the world and what your values are and what you can, you know, what you can how you can help people with. And so I would say designing your life, was all about looking at people that felt they were a square peg in a round hole, and how they could they thought just because they were interested, for example, one of the founders, the writers here. I mean, he was always as a little boy interested in marine biology. He became a marine biologist.
Jackie Naghten [00:14:37]:
So when he was about 35, he suddenly thought, I'm just not really that in this. I don't know why he's actually interested in something completely, something completely different. And quite honest, I mean, I when I was at school, I was good at languages. They said I should work in the foreign office. I would have absolutely useless as a civil servant because those are the sort of boxes, you know, we get put in boxes. And I still feel over today, the recruitment industry puts us in boxes whereas actually people have often have lots of other sides to them. So I would very much recommend that. And I would also recommend just, you know, going, if you're interested to pursue, reviewing your your your opportunities in life is to find a coach or a mentor.
Jackie Naghten [00:15:17]:
There's lots of, you know, TED Talks, for example, are an absolutely fantastic resource, which is all about telling stories about how people have embraced change and changed things. And they're very inspirational. You know? So, yeah, that would be what I would say, you know, go out. Main thing is go out into the world and connect with people. You know, I think you learn a lot by chatting to other people.
Stuart Webb [00:15:39]:
I I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with more. Look, Jackie, I kept you talking for about the last 15, 20 minutes, asking you all sorts of silly questions but there must be one question that you're thinking, well I wish you would get on to this subject. So this is my opportunity to get you to say what is the question that you would like me to have asked. Well, obviously, then when I've, got you to ask the question, you better answer it. So what's that question you would like me to have asked?
Jackie Naghten [00:16:09]:
I suppose, the question I would like you to have asked, or that I think is a good question to ask anybody, as Webb as what has been the biggest, what has made the biggest impact in your life, you know, to bring you to where you are today to to today?
Stuart Webb [00:16:25]:
That's a very good question. So so what has been that biggest impact?
Jackie Naghten [00:16:30]:
Well, I think the biggest impact is really goes back to that story I just told of when my husband was diagnosed with a with a with a illness, which is, that you never know what's around the corner. Mhmm. So, you know, I always say my big piece of advice to my well, to my kids and to anybody who gets in a bit of a twiddle and a twaddle with things is to say, have a plan, the plan can change. You know, because people get But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. You know, either pivoting, responding to outside outside influences because something, you know, you've got divorced, you you've got cancer, whatever happened, you know, you've got a sick child, and you have to change and rethink what you're doing, or because you want to. You want something different. You want to be reenergized and do something different.
Jackie Naghten [00:17:26]:
So I think the most important thing is to realize that you, you know, you you can't that that life won't be as you plan. Have a plan, the plan can change and go out and connect, you know, people are the biggest resource that's free out there that you can connect with and just, you know, you might I mean, I'm an you know, we're probably Stuart Natural Connectors. We're doing this sort of stuff, you know, we are sort of probably I'm certainly myself an extrovert. It's not easy for everybody. Not everybody's like that, but certainly if you're not somebody and and a lot of people think, oh, networking, you know, oh, that's a load of old you know? But actually, whether you wanna call it connecting or meet networking, connecting, meeting people, for me your fellow humans are your biggest resort to make change. And, you know, you you you you can't do any any and it's free, you know, to a certain extent. You know, it might cost you a cup of coffee or some of your five. But I've never had a wasted meeting with anybody in my five.
Jackie Naghten [00:18:23]:
And you always learn something. So, you know, that's what I would really encourage people to do. I don't think people realize how, how much that can impact your life.
Stuart Webb [00:18:31]:
I think it was a brilliant thing to say and and certainly something that I'm passing on to a number of the I do some work with some students and I do with them, and I'd give them something very similar, which is, you know, if someone if someone suggests a meeting, take the meeting, you don't know what's gonna happen. You might look at it and think, well, that would be a waste of my time, but you have no idea where it's going, who they might meet,
Jackie Naghten [00:18:54]:
who they might introduce. You never know. Always learn something, and I've learned, you know, probably when I was younger, I was a bit more judgmental, you know, and I've really, really learned. And that's the one thing about older age, you get a bit more wisdom and, you have hindsight. And I would say, I don't think I've ever had a wasted meeting. Because even if you don't get the outcome from the meeting that you wanted, you people. And it's a 6 degrees of separation. You know, if all somebody you've got in common somewhere, I find it quite amazing.
Jackie Naghten [00:19:28]:
And having been on this planet now for such a long time, and recently gone back out into the world, the world of entrepreneurs and founders, I've just been talking to somebody who has a similar background to me in corp you know, I've done corporate finance and productivity. And of course, we have you know, there's all these people we have in common. It just never ceases to fascinate me. And I think your point you make about your students, obviously, the younger generation growing up in a different digital five. And I just worry for that generation sometimes. Do they realize because they do everything on technology, maybe even on Zoom, I still would rather I mean, this is lovely to do this, but it's it's wonderful to meet people in person. It is a different experience. And I think it's really important that young people understand the power of connection, not just on a WhatsApp and through, you know, all this.
Jackie Naghten [00:20:13]:
You know, my my my daughters won't even take phone calls. They don't like talking on the phone. You know, it's gotta be all this. So, you know, I I do worry for the younger generation. I would think it's really important that we make sure that they do understand the power of connection.
Stuart Webb [00:20:25]:
I wonder if we could have another 2 and a half hours on that subject. So I better close this down before we do because I know that's something that I worry a lot about working
Jackie Naghten [00:20:34]:
with you. I think all of us all of us boomers, I mean, if my daughters call me that's so boomer, you know, because I've got a I've got a desk covered in paper because I write notes with a pen, and they get all of that. Such a and then she took a picture of it and said, that's such a boomer desk because I've got paper and pens on it, you know, and they don't have anything. So I think our husbands are very worried about the the young you know, they're they're they're all doing fantastically well, but there were just certain aspects that you do worry. You know?
Stuart Webb [00:21:02]:
I am I am very concerned at the moment about a number of people I meet that don't do the don't when I say to them, have you chatted to them about that? They go, yes. Yes. And I go, well, what did they say? And they said, well, Webb didn't say anything because we did it over text. And my immediate response is never ever managed to resolve any dispute
Jackie Naghten [00:21:18]:
No.
Stuart Webb [00:21:19]:
Resolution, any negotiation over went well when you were doing emails and texts. They always needed something to
Jackie Naghten [00:21:25]:
put the coffee in the wrong place. It's completely a different statement. You know? I mean, how I mean, I have this with my best friend all the time. You know? She doesn't pay attention when she's reading, and you you can just so misinterpret the text. You know, it just doesn't and certainly not for business.
Stuart Webb [00:21:40]:
I'm gonna bring this to an end before we alienate half of the young people that Five persuaded to listen to this podcast because they need to. Jackie, it's been an absolute joy to spend time with you. I really appreciate you making a few minutes to speak with us. I'm just gonna put on the screen now the link to our newsletter. Now if you want to get on to the mailing list Webb you will get an email from me, which actually says who's coming up to talk to us on these, on these LinkedIn five and podcasts so that you get notification and you can actually think about whether or not you want to link with them or spend any time thinking about questions you'd like to put them. Go to this this URL, which is on the screen at the moment, httpscolonforward/forward/ link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. And, also, you will then get subscribed to the podcast when it gets released, as a second five of the cherry Webb you can listen to all of this again and rewind and listen to it as many times as you want because I think some of the stuff that Jackie has given us today are absolute nuggets of information.
Stuart Webb [00:22:53]:
They're really applicable to a number of, of the audience. Jackie, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate you spending
Jackie Naghten [00:23:00]:
My pleasure. And just just and just, sort of just on the point about the younger generation, I do work with a lot of, because I have young children myself. I work with a lot of young people who are often stuck in their twenties as to what they're gonna do. So I'm more than happy to talk to anybody about, you know, any any young people out there who are who are stuck and not sure which way to go. More than happy to have conversation.
Stuart Webb [00:23:21]:
Jackie, I know so many people who would take you up on that. I'm gonna point you in your direction. Thank you so much for spending some time. I know how valuable your time is because when you just talked about as much as you're doing, you must must try and cram in as much as you can. So thank you for a few minutes of your time. Really appreciate you you being with us.
Jackie Naghten [00:23:39]:
Well, thanks for the invitation, Stuart. It's been a pleasure.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Jackie Naghten (ep. 104)
16 maj· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Jackie?
Jackie Naghten is a successful individual who has explored various businesses and disciplines throughout her life. As she approached her sixties, the idea of retirement loomed, but she was not ready to give up or stop. This led her to start investigating the concept of "unretirement" and how to continue living a fulfilling and purposeful life beyond traditional retirement age. Jackie's own experiences and insights have led her to believe that her journey can inspire and help others who may be facing similar questions about their own future.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Jacki Naghten: Unretirement speaker, change advocate, mentor.
05:48 Risieng number of older workers face discrimination.
07:26 Purpose brings satisfaction, drive to get up.
11:40 Left corporate job, became consultant, discovered skills.
16:30 Adapt to change and stay flexible.
17:26 Connecting with people is key to success.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Connect with Jackie at Linkedin
A video version of this podcast is also at
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
unretirement, retirement, business, portfolio, mentors, entrepreneurs, MD (Managing Director), narrative change, change, career, job searching, personal brand, pivot, reinvent, coaching, mentoring, purpose, human connection, networking, technology, students, boomers, generation gap, communication, newsletter, podcast, careers, workplace, relationships, personal development
SPEAKERS
Jackie Naghten, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions Over Coffee. I'm absolutely delighted today to be joined by Jackie Norton. Now they always say, if you want to improve, if you want to get better in your business, you should employ people who are better than you, and that's how I feel about my guest today. I am really delighted to be having a conversation with Jackie who has a far more impressive portfolio of of businesses and interests than I have met, and so I'm really, really delighted, Jacqui, you found time in your diary to come and join us for a few minutes. Jacqui is what they call the unretirement speaker. She revealed facts and the reality about retirement in the 2020s for the boomers and how to get to your 100 year lifespan. She mentors and supports entrepreneurs who need to pivot and grow, and if she hasn't got enough going on, she's also the MD of a business whose mission is to change the narrative around the 50 plus woman, to become the invisible increasingly disappear at that age, and she's there to change that. And and that therefore means that what is throughout all of her career, what throughout all of her passion is that of change, changing individuals, changing businesses.
Stuart Webb [00:01:36]:
The need for change, managing change, and working out what is required is absolutely one of the critical bits of business that we need in the world today. So, Jackie, delighted you've spent time to come and spend a few minutes with us. Thank you so much for for being on It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions, Over Coffee.
Jackie Naghten [00:01:52]:
Well, thank you very much, Stuart. I hope it isn't rocket science. I hope it's not complicated as that.
Stuart Webb [00:01:59]:
No. Nothing is complicated than that. Look, Jacqui, let's start. You talk about being an unretirement speaker. You talk about, leading them. Tell us, what is it? Who who is it that you're trying to help? I guess it's obvious, but what who is it you're trying to help to understand the these changes that you're bringing to the world?
Jackie Naghten [00:02:15]:
Well, I think like most things in life, when you have any, you know, successful people, across all sorts of businesses and disciplines, and they tell their life story. Usually things happen because of what's happened in their lives, isn't it? You know, so you tend to look at yourself and think, well, this has happened to me. You know, I'm sure it must be happening to other people. So in the case of unretirement, I'm in my sixties now. And as I've approached that time and it sort of comes upon you, you know, you're bumbling along in your forties and next thing great. So you're gonna retire now? And I'm like, no. I don't want to retire. You know, what am I gonna do? And so I started to investigate this whole idea about not retiring because when I really thought about it for myself, I thought, you know, because retirement sounds like giving up, finishing, stopping.
Jackie Naghten [00:03:05]:
It feels like the end of life and I didn't feel like that at all. And I think particularly for women Webb we've had, a lot of time caring responsibilities, you know, juggling careers, suddenly as you get to your sixties, you actually have the time that you've always wanted to do things. So I started to investigate this whole issue of unretirement, which I I came up with. And then I found that actually exists out there and people are talking about on retirement, which is really, it's actually been coined by people who are actually returning to the workforce. So they've retired and then they've spent a couple of years in retirement, had a couple of cruises, done an extension, and then they're bored and they've come back. Because the truth of the matter is that for we boomers, and let's be honest, the boomers, we've been a quite a pioneering generation. We are now this is a final frontier for us, pioneering this move into older age. And, typically, as boomers, we're knowing it like it.
Jackie Naghten [00:04:03]:
So we question it. We're having a different, approach to it. We five a different lived experience, in our lives. I mean, certainly from the female point of view, a lot of us have had careers and brought up families, which, you know, wasn't wasn't didn't happen, you know, 50, 100 years ago. So we're a pioneering generation, and it's all changing. And we can see the rock stars are still rocking. The screenwriters are still writing, the actors are still acting well into their eighties nineties. So it's all changing.
Jackie Naghten [00:04:29]:
And so it's against that backdrop that I speak about on retirement.
Stuart Webb [00:04:33]:
And I think that's a really interesting point, Jacqui, because one of the things you just sort of talked about there is it's the experience that you bring. The the the the the fact of matter is that the the people who five retire often know better than anybody coming through all those things that do work and don't work and how to make that change the most practical, the most effective, as they can be. And and it's often that experience that we lose when people just sort of go Webb go off and do the cruises and spend time at home.
Jackie Naghten [00:05:03]:
Some people are very happily retired. Since you were 16. You can't physically do the job, you know, be a roofer anymore or whatever. And some and some many people are very happy to retire and focus on family and different things. But there's an awful lot of us who don't want to do that, and there's an awful lot of people who can't do that because the retirement, the state pension age is going up. And let's be honest, not many of us can live on that state pension. It's sort of more of a, you know, it's about a £1,000 a month. If you've got 25 years to live in retirement, a £1,000 a month isn't going to give you a very, exciting stimulating life.
Jackie Naghten [00:05:48]:
So, you know, that's the facts of the matter. So we've seen it for some time that our pensioners are going back into the workforce to supplement their income. But places like B&Q, you know, have taken on older people with all their experience, etcetera. But it's actually a much bigger issue now, and we're going to have by, I think, Webb about 50, 50% of the workforce is going to be over 50. Mhmm. And so there's a couple of things going on. First of all, there's a thing for people personally, what they want to do in it the birth rate's dropping, and they're suddenly waking up to the fact they might need older people. But meanwhile, what we know is 50 plus people are finding it incredibly difficult to get back into the workforce because there is a generational, sexist, a generational ageism going on, which is the last frontier of sort of, equality in the workplace, which is something that we at noon, with my other hat on, are working on.
Jackie Naghten [00:06:44]:
So, you know, my unretirement interest and speaking about unretirement kind of has a very nice crossover with the the work I do at noon, which is all about the 50 plus women who are very keen to get back to work and think about what they're going to do as they pivot in the midlife.
Stuart Webb [00:07:00]:
And I'm so glad you brought noon in because I was about to ask, of course, what is what is noon? And so therefore, let's let's move on to sort of what it is therefore then that you've seen people who are trying to sort of cope with this on retirement. You've mentioned a couple of times people who've retired and it's not for them, so they've gone back to work. What is it that you you are trying to do to help them with that with that transition? How do you how do you help people to understand whether or not retirement is right for them?
Jackie Naghten [00:07:26]:
Well, I think, I think what we have to think about is very simple. It's what gets you out of bed in the middle? What gets you out of bed in the morning? And what doesn't get me out of bed in the morning is just thinking, oh, I'm going to see some friends for lunch and I'll maybe go to the gym later. I mean, I'm not saying that's not nice to do, but I I it's lacking a sort of purpose, a sort of satisfaction. That's what I found, you know, because I I did have a period of time when I had cancer and that enforced me to have a a year off. And I and and and while you're not very Webb, obviously, I was so frustrated because I couldn't do anything. You know, I hadn't got any point, you know, I couldn't work and all these things. And so I'm just somebody, and there's lots of us around who just like like working. I mean, lots of people work in volunteer positions because they just want to have a purpose.
Jackie Naghten [00:08:11]:
And what we know, I think it's Sigmund Freud who said, you know, there's 2 main things in life out of all of this is love and work, which is really purpose and human connection. And that, you know, that's what working can give you and that's what we as humans, you know, on the whole keeps us going. So, you know, when I say work, it doesn't necessarily have to be financially rewarding work. It could be all sorts of things, but it's finding purpose. And I think that's where people quite often need help. Because as we all know, when we try and write about ourself market, it's very difficult doing that yourself. It's much more helpful if you do it with somebody else who can interpret how you are. And that's where coaching or mentoring comes in because, I can work with people, and they they may be let's say they've been an accountant for 20, 30 years.
Jackie Naghten [00:09:00]:
All they can think about is, like, well, I'm very good with numbers. I can do accountancy, but I don't want to do it anymore. And it's very difficult for them to think, what are the other possibilities. So what I'm very good at is thinking creatively with people about the other skills and strengths that they might have that could take them in a different direction.
Stuart Webb [00:09:17]:
Takes us in so many directions actually. So I think you're absolutely right. The the meaningful connections is hugely important. I think biologists are now beginning to discuss or, you know, you you hear in the media that, loneliness can be the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And Having those meaningful connections can extend your lifespan.
Jackie Naghten [00:09:35]:
I mean, I have to say, I have looked into an article about that. It's a slightly typically, as as you can imagine, typically, a sort of convoluted piece of data when you, you know, get underneath it because it it's not that simple, but loneliness is is an epidemic, you know. And as we live longer I mean, I'm widowed myself. As we live longer, divorce a lot of people are getting divorced in their fifties and sixties because they're thinking, if they're living till they're five and they have a non satisfactory relationship, they're actually getting divorced in their sixties, which is another reason why people often need to work because the financial pots got smaller, etcetera, etcetera. And also for women who were divorced and on their own, typically men tend to find another partner, women perhaps not. They want to go to work or they might not have worked for 10, 15 years. And so, you know, and they have no idea. You know, jobs have changed.
Jackie Naghten [00:10:26]:
The workplace has changed tremendously. And and so it's a little bit scary for, people when they're older to go back into, but they're quite keen to have that connection and to have some purpose.
Stuart Webb [00:10:38]:
So so, Jackie, if we if we if we now look at what how people can get in contact with you, I think I think you've given us your LinkedIn, your LinkedIn, and and the the Noon, which is the organization. Are there are there things that they'll find there that could be helping them to understand this transition that you're talking to people about?
Jackie Naghten [00:11:05]:
Well, certainly at noon, we have a lot of resources on there. We cover divorce, bereavement, cancer, job searching, all of those sorts of things. And there's lots of uplifting stories about, you know, all this because what we learn from in life is stories and it's always interesting to hear somebody else's Stuart. Yeah. And particularly if you're going through a tough time in your life, so for myself, I've got a you know, my story was my husband was diagnosed with a very with a terminal illness when I was 42. And I had to pivot. I had to change everything in my life. My life literally went up in the air, and I had to reinvent myself.
Jackie Naghten [00:11:40]:
I had to give up my corporate job. I went out into the world and became a consultant just based on networking really, you know, without any plan or thought. And so I've learned to market myself. I learned that I had skills I didn't realize I had, and this is I think the point of coaching, etcetera, you know, where you can you've actually got skills you don't realize you have because you think all you can do is add up numbers if, you know, do a balance sheet in accountancy. But, actually, you've got loads of other skills as well. And, actually, these are leading, problem solving, these sorts of skills, which you can apply to all sorts of things. So, you know, if you go to Noon you can find out about the Midlife Women. If you just come to my LinkedIn and connect with me then, I'm more than happy to, you know, I get all sorts of people who I meet, day to day and for various speaking engagements approaching me saying, can you help with this? Can you help with that? Because I've also worked with a lot of entrepreneurs and it's, you know, whether it's a business or a person, quite often a business falters and stutters and it might need to be reinvented or might need to take a different turn.
Jackie Naghten [00:12:49]:
And again, when you're the founder and the owner, it's quite difficult working that out. You need someone from outside to help you work that through.
Stuart Webb [00:12:57]:
Yes. Jackie, is is there a is there a a book or or course that, that really sort of helped you to understand how the unretirement world is beginning to become the new the new retire the the new work?
Jackie Naghten [00:13:13]:
Well, there's a there's a couple of things. I mean, we are, we are shortly going to be running courses at noon, about this. We're working on those at the Moment. I've got a book here which I came across or designing and I came across this about 10 years ago. I mean, that's an old version there. And it was written by 2 guys in, I think it's Stanford University in America, Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. And it absolutely fascinated me because I'm a brand person. And so because my background is retail and consumer brands.
Jackie Naghten [00:13:47]:
And, when you when you talk about brands, you're talking about brands have a sort of personality and they have values, etcetera. And what this book did, it actually looked to people as if they were brands. And so it really resonated with me. Because, actually, these days, people, you know, there's lots of chat about, you know, people talk about their personal brand. And your personal brand is just how you come how you present to the world and what your values are and what you can, you know, what you can how you can help people with. And so I would say designing your life, was all about looking at people that felt they were a square peg in a round hole, and how they could they thought just because they were interested, for example, one of the founders, the writers here. I mean, he was always as a little boy interested in marine biology. He became a marine biologist.
Jackie Naghten [00:14:37]:
So when he was about 35, he suddenly thought, I'm just not really that in this. I don't know why he's actually interested in something completely, something completely different. And quite honest, I mean, I when I was at school, I was good at languages. They said I should work in the foreign office. I would have absolutely useless as a civil servant because those are the sort of boxes, you know, we get put in boxes. And I still feel over today, the recruitment industry puts us in boxes whereas actually people have often have lots of other sides to them. So I would very much recommend that. And I would also recommend just, you know, going, if you're interested to pursue, reviewing your your your opportunities in life is to find a coach or a mentor.
Jackie Naghten [00:15:17]:
There's lots of, you know, TED Talks, for example, are an absolutely fantastic resource, which is all about telling stories about how people have embraced change and changed things. And they're very inspirational. You know? So, yeah, that would be what I would say, you know, go out. Main thing is go out into the world and connect with people. You know, I think you learn a lot by chatting to other people.
Stuart Webb [00:15:39]:
I I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with more. Look, Jackie, I kept you talking for about the last 15, 20 minutes, asking you all sorts of silly questions but there must be one question that you're thinking, well I wish you would get on to this subject. So this is my opportunity to get you to say what is the question that you would like me to have asked. Well, obviously, then when I've, got you to ask the question, you better answer it. So what's that question you would like me to have asked?
Jackie Naghten [00:16:09]:
I suppose, the question I would like you to have asked, or that I think is a good question to ask anybody, as Webb as what has been the biggest, what has made the biggest impact in your life, you know, to bring you to where you are today to to today?
Stuart Webb [00:16:25]:
That's a very good question. So so what has been that biggest impact?
Jackie Naghten [00:16:30]:
Well, I think the biggest impact is really goes back to that story I just told of when my husband was diagnosed with a with a with a illness, which is, that you never know what's around the corner. Mhmm. So, you know, I always say my big piece of advice to my well, to my kids and to anybody who gets in a bit of a twiddle and a twaddle with things is to say, have a plan, the plan can change. You know, because people get But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. You know, either pivoting, responding to outside outside influences because something, you know, you've got divorced, you you've got cancer, whatever happened, you know, you've got a sick child, and you have to change and rethink what you're doing, or because you want to. You want something different. You want to be reenergized and do something different.
Jackie Naghten [00:17:26]:
So I think the most important thing is to realize that you, you know, you you can't that that life won't be as you plan. Have a plan, the plan can change and go out and connect, you know, people are the biggest resource that's free out there that you can connect with and just, you know, you might I mean, I'm an you know, we're probably Stuart Natural Connectors. We're doing this sort of stuff, you know, we are sort of probably I'm certainly myself an extrovert. It's not easy for everybody. Not everybody's like that, but certainly if you're not somebody and and a lot of people think, oh, networking, you know, oh, that's a load of old you know? But actually, whether you wanna call it connecting or meet networking, connecting, meeting people, for me your fellow humans are your biggest resort to make change. And, you know, you you you you can't do any any and it's free, you know, to a certain extent. You know, it might cost you a cup of coffee or some of your five. But I've never had a wasted meeting with anybody in my five.
Jackie Naghten [00:18:23]:
And you always learn something. So, you know, that's what I would really encourage people to do. I don't think people realize how, how much that can impact your life.
Stuart Webb [00:18:31]:
I think it was a brilliant thing to say and and certainly something that I'm passing on to a number of the I do some work with some students and I do with them, and I'd give them something very similar, which is, you know, if someone if someone suggests a meeting, take the meeting, you don't know what's gonna happen. You might look at it and think, well, that would be a waste of my time, but you have no idea where it's going, who they might meet,
Jackie Naghten [00:18:54]:
who they might introduce. You never know. Always learn something, and I've learned, you know, probably when I was younger, I was a bit more judgmental, you know, and I've really, really learned. And that's the one thing about older age, you get a bit more wisdom and, you have hindsight. And I would say, I don't think I've ever had a wasted meeting. Because even if you don't get the outcome from the meeting that you wanted, you people. And it's a 6 degrees of separation. You know, if all somebody you've got in common somewhere, I find it quite amazing.
Jackie Naghten [00:19:28]:
And having been on this planet now for such a long time, and recently gone back out into the world, the world of entrepreneurs and founders, I've just been talking to somebody who has a similar background to me in corp you know, I've done corporate finance and productivity. And of course, we have you know, there's all these people we have in common. It just never ceases to fascinate me. And I think your point you make about your students, obviously, the younger generation growing up in a different digital five. And I just worry for that generation sometimes. Do they realize because they do everything on technology, maybe even on Zoom, I still would rather I mean, this is lovely to do this, but it's it's wonderful to meet people in person. It is a different experience. And I think it's really important that young people understand the power of connection, not just on a WhatsApp and through, you know, all this.
Jackie Naghten [00:20:13]:
You know, my my my daughters won't even take phone calls. They don't like talking on the phone. You know, it's gotta be all this. So, you know, I I do worry for the younger generation. I would think it's really important that we make sure that they do understand the power of connection.
Stuart Webb [00:20:25]:
I wonder if we could have another 2 and a half hours on that subject. So I better close this down before we do because I know that's something that I worry a lot about working
Jackie Naghten [00:20:34]:
with you. I think all of us all of us boomers, I mean, if my daughters call me that's so boomer, you know, because I've got a I've got a desk covered in paper because I write notes with a pen, and they get all of that. Such a and then she took a picture of it and said, that's such a boomer desk because I've got paper and pens on it, you know, and they don't have anything. So I think our husbands are very worried about the the young you know, they're they're they're all doing fantastically well, but there were just certain aspects that you do worry. You know?
Stuart Webb [00:21:02]:
I am I am very concerned at the moment about a number of people I meet that don't do the don't when I say to them, have you chatted to them about that? They go, yes. Yes. And I go, well, what did they say? And they said, well, Webb didn't say anything because we did it over text. And my immediate response is never ever managed to resolve any dispute
Jackie Naghten [00:21:18]:
No.
Stuart Webb [00:21:19]:
Resolution, any negotiation over went well when you were doing emails and texts. They always needed something to
Jackie Naghten [00:21:25]:
put the coffee in the wrong place. It's completely a different statement. You know? I mean, how I mean, I have this with my best friend all the time. You know? She doesn't pay attention when she's reading, and you you can just so misinterpret the text. You know, it just doesn't and certainly not for business.
Stuart Webb [00:21:40]:
I'm gonna bring this to an end before we alienate half of the young people that Five persuaded to listen to this podcast because they need to. Jackie, it's been an absolute joy to spend time with you. I really appreciate you making a few minutes to speak with us. I'm just gonna put on the screen now the link to our newsletter. Now if you want to get on to the mailing list Webb you will get an email from me, which actually says who's coming up to talk to us on these, on these LinkedIn five and podcasts so that you get notification and you can actually think about whether or not you want to link with them or spend any time thinking about questions you'd like to put them. Go to this this URL, which is on the screen at the moment, httpscolonforward/forward/ link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. And, also, you will then get subscribed to the podcast when it gets released, as a second five of the cherry Webb you can listen to all of this again and rewind and listen to it as many times as you want because I think some of the stuff that Jackie has given us today are absolute nuggets of information.
Stuart Webb [00:22:53]:
They're really applicable to a number of, of the audience. Jackie, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate you spending
Jackie Naghten [00:23:00]:
My pleasure. And just just and just, sort of just on the point about the younger generation, I do work with a lot of, because I have young children myself. I work with a lot of young people who are often stuck in their twenties as to what they're gonna do. So I'm more than happy to talk to anybody about, you know, any any young people out there who are who are stuck and not sure which way to go. More than happy to have conversation.
Stuart Webb [00:23:21]:
Jackie, I know so many people who would take you up on that. I'm gonna point you in your direction. Thank you so much for spending some time. I know how valuable your time is because when you just talked about as much as you're doing, you must must try and cram in as much as you can. So thank you for a few minutes of your time. Really appreciate you you being with us.
Jackie Naghten [00:23:39]:
Well, thanks for the invitation, Stuart. It's been a pleasure.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Karen Green (ep. 103)
2 maj· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Karen?
Karen Green is a marketing expert who has a passion for helping people sell their ideas, products, and services. She firmly believes in the principles of virology theory and how they can be applied to any sales situation, whether it's an investor pitch, business presentation, or job interview. With a focus on niche marketing, Karen helps her clients achieve their goals and reach their target audience. Her expertise extends to a wide range of industries, making her a valuable asset to anyone looking to sell more effectively.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Broad sales principles apply to various situations.
04:54 Tailoring sales approach to individual buyer preferences.
09:29 In 30 seconds, tailoring emails makes difference.
11:57 Logic and biology in business development book.
14:47 Book by former FBI negotiator with storytelling.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Copy of Karen’s book by dropping her an email at [email protected]
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
buying mindset, sales director, buyer's mindset, pricing, corporate buyers, facts and figures, virology model, human interaction, selling, personality profiling, AI, communication, prospecting, negotiation, case studies, coaching, selling toothpaste, retail, sales growth, buyer's profile, business development, webinar, Jeff Walker, B2B sales strategies, human approach, Harvard Business Review, decision making, influencing, marketing, entrepreneurship
SPEAKERS
Karen Green, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. This is a great opportunity for me to sit and chat, with somebody I'm really looking forward to a discussion with. And I do have a cup of coffee, so therefore, good opportunity for me to sit back, let her do the talking, and I'll do the coffee drinking. And today, I'm talking to Karen Green who was a buyer, with with Tesco. Five I got that right, Karen? Yes.
Stuart Webb [00:00:53]:
And then you moved into, the, the supply side where you were a sales director, and now you are an expert consultant and speaker helping us all understand the buyer's mindset and how to go about doing things like, well, pricing and buying and things like that. So, Karen, I'm really looking forward to the conversation. Welcome to it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee.
Karen Green [00:01:17]:
Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it.
Stuart Webb [00:01:20]:
Terrific. Webb, okay. I guess the first thing we have to sort of dive into is is who is what is who is the person you're trying to help? What is it that we're all misunderstanding about buying that you're trying to
Karen Green [00:01:31]:
help us to understand? So on a on a broader scale, because, you know, whenever you talk to marketers, they say you should niche it down, niche it down. But on a broader scale, anybody who is trying to sell something, and you could be selling an idea to somebody, you could be selling a product or a service, or selling your business. So if you're doing an investor pitch, or even if you're trying to sell yourself for an interview, the principles behind behind the virology theory work for for any of those. So, much as, you know, my target audience is obviously, for my clients is more narrow than that, but this can work for any anybody really who wants to to sell more and sell better.
Stuart Webb [00:02:23]:
And what is it those people have done before you try and help them that that have made Webb they've made mistakes in that? Is is it just is it just not understanding the process or is it more than that?
Karen Green [00:02:37]:
It's more than that. And I and I found this statistic, and I asked lots of people. So I'll ask you the the the the number. So according
Karen Green [00:02:49]:
According to Harvard Business Review, what percentage of business to business, because that's really what I work in, business to business, corporate buyers, make the decision based on fact?
Stuart Webb [00:03:03]:
Yeah. So I'm going to have to say according to Harvard Business Review, and and I haven't read this article, but I would imagine it is a very, very low percentage. And I would imagine most people going into a buying situation think that that person buying is basing on all of the facts. And I'd imagine it's basically on whether or not you smiled or did something to make them feel good or treated them like a human or something like that.
Karen Green [00:03:29]:
You're absolutely right. So they say about 5% of
Stuart Webb [00:03:33]:
decisions That doesn't surprise me, I'm afraid. Based
Karen Green [00:03:36]:
on fact. And and that's the biggest mistake that I think I probably was making from, from day 1 of being a salesperson because, my personality is is quite fact based. I'm quite interested in in sales growth and numbers. So I would do all my research, and I'd look at the company, and I'd look at, their values and their mission and their statistics and the market share, and I would know that relatively inside out. And if I didn't, I'd usually have somebody with me who did, like a category manager. And when I was sort of putting together the the basis for my model, the virology model, I actually realized that that's only 1 third of of the of the piece. The the main part of it is, as we say, that that buyers are human. And therefore, what you've got to do is spend more time researching the person you're selling to as a human being than actually the corporation.
Karen Green [00:04:42]:
And then the 3rd pillar, which I think is quite interesting, and it's harder to research, is what is that human's interaction with the company they're working for?
Karen Green [00:04:54]:
So for example, I do a lot of work with food and drink companies selling into UK retail because that's obviously my my background. And you might get a buyer who's been there a long time, seen it all before, doesn't really wanna rock the boat, and therefore, you know, you have to think about, well, they're not looking for promotion, they're gonna be looking just to keep going. They've seen it all before. Or you might have somebody actually who's who's super ambitious, wants to change the world, quite happy to go and do things differently, and that can make quite a difference between the way you, you tailor things. So that's where you kind of if you if you'd look at all three pillars, you will have a better chance. And it means that you can take your your basic sales message, whatever that is, and and tailor it according to the person. And that's and that's the skill, that's the basis for the book, and that's the basis for what I work with clients on to to make to make the difference.
Stuart Webb [00:06:10]:
That's that's interesting. I think it's it's very reminiscent. Of my experience when I was, first first out of, what I did and and and entered a world where I was being taught to be a manager briefly before I started sort of taking taking you know, doing doing things with my own companies. But the one thing that I can remember a a manager mentor of mine saying was when I sort of provided somebody with some feedback, I was doing it based upon my understanding of something, which was all about, as you said, numbers. And and this person looked at me and said, how did they take it? And I said, well, I didn't understand. You didn't seem to care about that. He said, no. You have to tailor your message to what they care about, not what you care about.
Stuart Webb [00:06:54]:
And it was such a I sat there and thought from, well, that sounds that sounds so so ridiculous. I mean, I was I was sort of, you know, late twenties. You know, I was I was one of those sort of, you know, sitting there knowing knowing everything and then thinking, well, why on earth is this person telling me something like that? Because that's clearly rubbish. And and it was absolutely the right advice because people don't wanna hear it based upon your understanding. They wanna hear it based upon their understanding, don't they? They're and and and as as communicators, the thing that we have to remember is that communication is what the listener does, not what we do. We can we can shout it from the rooftop, but if nobody's listening, we've communicated nothing.
Karen Green [00:07:35]:
It's true. And what's exciting, I think, now is the fact that the combination of having LinkedIn and having, AI, and there's there's a couple of AI, systems you can use. I use Humanix. There's also Crystal Knows, and there's a couple of others. You can go and analyze the buyer or the the person that you wanna sell to because it might not be a corporate buyer. It must might just be your boss, for example. And you can work out their personality based on and Humanix uses the the DISC profiling. So you can then say, well, actually, I mean, I'm a I'm a relatively strong red personality.
Karen Green [00:08:16]:
So, and I remember a bit like you when I was younger at at at Tesco, my boss sitting me down and saying, you know, you went and asked accounts for us. He said, talk me through. And I went, well, I took it up like you said, and I gave it to them. And I said, I need this. And he said, did you say good morning? And I went, might have done. Did you ask them how they were? And I'm like, well, why would I? Am I interested? I don't care. And he said, I think if you built the relationship a bit better, you might understand, you know, you might come better. And I was like, oh, okay.
Karen Green [00:08:48]:
Fine. But if you if you know your personality as well so I know that I'm high red. I'm gonna get to the point quite quickly. I'm it's not entirely true because I do have a bit of eye in me as well. So I am relatively interested in people, but I think that's probably come as I've got older. And if you know your shortcomings or your purse your chosen approach, and then you use something like Humanix, which really has changed the way I do, because I obviously work with a quite a large number of clients, so I do a lot of discovery calls. And I can go on to LinkedIn. I can profile them.
Karen Green [00:09:29]:
In 30 seconds, I've got fair idea what they're gonna be five, and it just it just gives it the edge. It really does make a huge difference, to to the way I approach things. I'm not as good as I should be, you know, in terms of tailoring my emails and tailoring this, that, and the other. And and I was, I was watching a, webinar last week actually by Humanex who were talking about how, you know, if you've got a mailing list, I use Hub Spot, and you've got, say, a 1000 people on it, you can segment it by, type and and and all that kind of thing. And and, yes, I probably would do better. And their their open click rates is amazing because they do tailor it specifically to to different types. But and I'm sure once AI gets a little bit better than it you just press a button and then it will do it for us. But at the moment, it's a little bit a little bit weird for me.
Karen Green [00:10:22]:
But
Stuart Webb [00:10:23]:
I'm I'm looking forward to the day that I, that that that on on on my behalf and AI buys everything I've already decided I want. Although at the moment, I've got a son that does that for me, and I just over things appearing, through the post because he just sits and orders stuff that he's decided that I want. Well, most of the stuff is for him is just my credit card. Anyway, so look. That takes me for the next to the next thing, and I think you've got a really brilliant free offer that, that we can we can all tap into to sort of learn some of this stuff. And and for this moment now, I'm going to show this ticket because I believe you have got a really valuable free offer, which I'm really excited about.
Karen Green [00:11:08]:
So so yes. I wrote, my this is my second book actually, Recipe for Success, which was aimed at at food companies. It's available on Amazon if if you are interested. But this is a broader book. This is around know your buyer, sell more, and and sell better. And the first third of the book does go into understanding the why. So, you know, understanding why why are people more likely to be human in a corporate decision making, situation than than driven by by facts and figures. And then it I get into the the disc profiling and different ways that you can actually work out who your who your customer is and and to think about the 3 3 pillars.
Karen Green [00:11:57]:
Because, you know, at the beginning, I was saying we tend to focus on that 3rd pillar about, well, the the logical bit. We still need the logic because if we don't have the logic, then the rest of it will will fall apart because we still you know, there there still needs to be that factual basis. And and then the final part of the book is thinking about, well, how do you go out and do all those different things to do within business development and sales, such as prospecting, sending the cold emails, having the meetings, closing the sale, getting repeats. All of that part is there, but but with the underpin of of how do you tailor it and how do you use biology to make difference. So that's that's the book. It is a it is available on Amazon, but, yes, if you drop me a line, I will arrange for and an address, actually. I'll need your address at the same
Stuart Webb [00:12:50]:
time.
Karen Green [00:12:51]:
So so
Stuart Webb [00:12:52]:
drop an drop a a request and an address to karen@buyerology, that's buyeroldoydot co.uk. And that will be winging its way to you, which is a fantastic free offer. I love it.
Karen Green [00:13:09]:
Yeah. Please please do. I'll get get the message out because I'm really I am genuinely very passionate about what I do, and I think, the more people can who who get that understanding. Yeah. And as I say, you don't have to be an entrepreneur or in business for it to be useful. I mean, you know, some of some of the I don't know whether when toddlers actually get their their, personality. In fact, I should look that up because I've never thought about that. I've always thought, you know, if you're gonna sell something to a toddler, then that's probably and succeed.
Karen Green [00:13:43]:
Selling an idea to a toddler is is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do.
Stuart Webb [00:13:47]:
Well, I think is it is it it's not it's it's an old truism that we're all selling all the time over if you're what you're trying to do is persuade your your significant other to go out to the cinema. There's a there's a there's a there's an interaction of selling and buying interaction going on there, and it's just it's continuous, and we all ought to be better at it, I guess.
Karen Green [00:14:08]:
Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's it's
Stuart Webb [00:14:10]:
Makes make would make for happier relationships, I suspect, if we did actually do some of that. So, was there a particular book or course that actually sort of started you to to to think about? Obviously, other than the 2 books that you've mentioned that you wrote, but was there a particular book, of course, that actually, started you in this journey about understanding how buying be is such an important part of five.
Karen Green [00:14:34]:
So I would say the the best book I've ever read on this is Never Split the Difference. Five I've forgotten who wrote it now. Oh, god.
Stuart Webb [00:14:46]:
I didn't know.
Karen Green [00:14:47]:
I was looking on my shelf to see if I had it, and I think it's it's packed away because I've been it'll come back to me in a minute. But it's written by, he was an FBI negotiator, so he's not he wasn't at the time a commercial person. I mean, he does do a lot of training now. But it's a brilliant book because he does it there's a lot of storytelling in it, and he does talk about negotiating with with hostage situations and things like that. So it is quite interesting, but then he does get into, you know, how to negotiate a a pay five or how to negotiate, with your with your significant other as you're describing. It is a really good book, and it will come to minimum as to who's written it. It's it's a major major major major bestseller.
Stuart Webb [00:15:37]:
But that's, that's interesting, isn't it? Because once again, that you know, it's I I think we're discovering, you know, not that all buying situations are hostage taking situations, but I can understand what the the the the, the the links between those 2 because, obviously, what we've got is 2 people who are trying to reach some sort of an agreement, and I I guess Stuart the normal agreement is the price or whatever over you're gonna pay.
Karen Green [00:16:01]:
It's Chris Fox, by the way. I've just looked it up. Okay. But yeah. And and the point of the book, Over Split the Difference, I think is is a really good one because it's it is a technique that I've seen when I I was, Yeah. When I was working with Tesco. So they'll say, well, we want 50% margin. And you think, well, actually, I was only going in for, like, 30.
Karen Green [00:16:26]:
So if they say, let's split the difference, that's 40. But, actually, your toppest, toppest might be 38. So for them to go, let's split the difference because they've set this ridiculously high target figure to start with is is really poor. And and I actually do use it that thought process a lot where someone moves if someone says to me let's split the difference, I always say no. Just
Stuart Webb [00:16:52]:
Just to see what happens?
Karen Green [00:16:54]:
Chris said. Chris said say no.
Stuart Webb [00:16:58]:
How fantastic.
Karen Green [00:16:59]:
That's funny.
Stuart Webb [00:17:00]:
Get out of that situation?
Karen Green [00:17:04]:
Well, it's you then have to look at the reasons why you wouldn't split the difference. It's quite hard actually because some people think it's think it they're being generous. They go, well, should we you know, if you're buying a car and they'll say, well, should we split the difference? Or I've had clients I have one recently where someone was saying, well, can we split the difference? I Webb, oh, no. No. Because because because you're asking a map. You were asking too much to start with. But you gotta be careful because then that seems a bit rude.
Stuart Webb [00:17:33]:
I love it. Oh, we could talk for this on our list, but we better not. We better not because I think, 1, it would it would eliminate any, any reason for anybody to to try and get your book, and they definitely should get your book. So I'm going to ask you the final question, which is obviously, Five been asking questions and you've obviously beautifully answered them, but there must be a question that you wish I had answered and I haven't yet. So, Karen, what's the question that I should have asked you? And, obviously, you know the answer better than anyone else, so you better answer it for us as well.
Karen Green [00:18:05]:
What's what's the evidence that biology works? I think is
Stuart Webb [00:18:11]:
the best. That's a lovely question. I think it's a lovely question. Is there a good case study that you can bring us?
Karen Green [00:18:18]:
There's there's there's lots there's lots of of case studies I can bring. Certainly, over the last 2 or 3 years, I've had clients come along to me, and they've they've they've said, oh, this is my business and this is it, and I will turn on. I can remember one in particular. And I said, you don't really enjoy right running this business, do you? Because you really don't like selling because you're actually a real nice people person. And she went, you've only spoken to me for 5 minutes. How do you know that? And she got quite but she was very impressed. And we did end up working together for a very long time. And I did obviously explain to her afterwards.
Karen Green [00:19:00]:
I said, well, I've just profiled you, and and you're definite a very green person, and you like getting on with people. And and and therefore, you you know, to to sit across a buyer is gonna be really hard. So what you need is someone like me to protect you and go in and do it for you. And that's what I do actually with with a number of my clients. So so that kind of is an example of of the beginning of of of how it works. But, certainly, at the moment, I'm doing a lot more selling than I would normally do, on behalf of clients. I normally just coach, but I've got a couple of people who came to me and said, well, would you do it for me who are not born sellers? And, yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with it actually Stuart adapt, to the different personalities, and we're I'm off to see, Boots actually on Thursday sitting on the other side of the desk selling toothpaste. So it's gonna be quite interesting.
Stuart Webb [00:19:59]:
Fantastic. Fantastic. Karen, I mean, my immediate response my immediate response is I can't I can't believe, that you won't get 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of requests for that book because, Well, if I
Karen Green [00:20:11]:
get 1,000,000 and 1,000,000, then we'll have to put we'll have to put, like, no more than 50 p 50 will be given away because, we don't want the repeat of, was it? Right.
Stuart Webb [00:20:21]:
There that is that is your that is your your challenge, people watching at the moment. And And if you're watching on replay, you may already be too late. Get that email to karen@birology, b u y erology.co.uk immediately to get your free copy of that book because I think, Karen, that is a brilliant message. I love what you've been telling us. I love the way that you're helping to peep get people. And I really appreciate you spending a few minutes with us, today.
Karen Green [00:20:54]:
Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it. It's been great.
Stuart Webb [00:20:56]:
Lovely. Now look. If you would like to get, an email from me letting you know about the wonderful people that are coming up on this podcast so you can watch five and get in before the offers disappear, send, go to this link, which is link.thecompleteapproach.c0.ukforward/newsletter. That puts you onto our letter list. We will be sending you an email, which gives you information about the upcoming webinars, the upcoming LinkedIn lives Webb you will hear wonderful people like Karen speak. And, Karen, I just wanna thank you once again for coming on and, spending a few minutes, certainly educating me, and I really appreciate it.
Karen Green [00:21:37]:
Thank you very much. Thank you. You've been great.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Tracy Borreson (ep. 102)
4 apr· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Tracy?
Tracy Borreson has a background in corporate marketing but found that the industry lacked authenticity. Determined to change that, she left the corporate world and started TLB Coaching, a business centered around having real conversations and helping companies find their unique DNA. Tracy believes that the standard approach of giving easy instructions and expecting success doesn't work, and instead focuses on helping people figure out what they would do in any given situation. Whether it's through in-person networking events or marketing advisory services, Tracy's mission is to bring authenticity back to the marketing industry.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Marketing professional seeks authenticity and unique approach.
06:49 Choosing convenience over joy can diminish experiences.
10:30 "Need for communication and understanding client problems."
13:16 Target niche markets efficiently to save money.
16:41 Personal brand campfire: audio meditation experience.
18:23 Book recommendation: "The One Thing" - Focus
22:37 Trade show success is about creating experience.
26:46 Embrace failure, learn, nobody died, keep going.
29:15 Failure is necessary for learning and growth.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandsthatspeak/
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/nO8zKIPa2-E?feature=share
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Personal branding, Authenticity, Marketing strategies, Customer engagement, Business development, Digital space, Authentic insights, Customer needs, Education-based marketing, Targeted approach, Sustainable marketing, Meaningful relationships, Sales, Customer experience, DNA and actions, Authentic marketing, TLB coaching, Sales strategies, Meaningful activities, Personal brand campfire, Authentic expression, The One Thing, The Art of Gathering, Human connection, Community building, Productive day, Mentor advice, Asking the right questions, Business growth, Mistakes in marketing
SPEAKERS
Tracy Borreson, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:20]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. I'm here at the moment. I've actually just finished my drink, but I should be getting another one very soon. I'm here with Tracy, who is obviously well caffeined up. Hi, Tracy. Really good to see you. Tracy is a, is is is really into the authenticity, particularly in the digital space, and, runs, TLB coaching, which I'm sure we'll get to, in the in the future. And she's really, all about trying to make your, your, brand, your your personal brand to become the leading way in which you engage with others.
Stuart Webb [00:01:01]:
So, Tracy, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions, have a coffee. Looking forward to this conversation enormously.
Tracy Borreson [00:01:08]:
Me too, Stewart. I've for since the 1st time we chatted, one, I love the whole concept of it's not rocket science. So, hopefully, we don't make it too complicated for people to say.
Stuart Webb [00:01:17]:
Well, look. It's it's it's I always say to people, business is is so easy. Why do we overcomplicate things? And and for me, marketing is is simple as well. People people worry so much about, you know, the the terms and things like that. So talk to me a little bit about what it is you try and do to help people. What is it that you're trying to do with TLB coaching?
Tracy Borreson [00:01:37]:
So my background is marketing, and I was in the corporate marketing arena for a long time. And one of the things that I didn't experience very much of there was authenticity, which as defined by me is people doing and saying what they would do or say, when they would would want to do and say it. And so I kinda meandered around the marketing industry for a long time trying to find my place of where I could have this conversation, and I didn't find it. So I left corporate, started TLB coaching, and it's all about being in the conversation about what would you do. So I believe that every business has a unique DNA, and while the current environment that we live in is very much about one of ease and simplicity and let me just tell you what to do and you can do it and you'll be fine, The problem is is that doesn't work. It doesn't work the majority of the time. Sometimes you get lucky, but the majority of the time, it doesn't work. And so in everything we do at TLP Coaching, whether that is an in person networking event to actually, like, be a marketing advisory services we provide, It's all about helping people figure out what would you do.
Tracy Borreson [00:02:57]:
What would your business do? I did this post on LinkedIn yesterday that I was super annoyed about, because people have started using the, like, service request form on LinkedIn to pitch. And I was like, for real? I got 2 in the same day. So, like, clearly, someone is telling people this is what they should do. Right? This is a way to hack the new LinkedIn so you don't have to have a paid membership or whatever. But just like, would you do that? Would you? Or would you not? Because if you wouldn't do that, then you don't have to do it. And just helping people get back to honestly, I think it's a personal confidence thing or a business confidence thing. Personal confidence creates business confidence. Would you do that? And if you wouldn't do that, honestly, it doesn't even matter if everybody else in your industry is doing it because if you wouldn't do it, you're either going to, a, do it in a completely undedicated way that's not gonna work for you, or 2, you're gonna do something else which makes you stand out from the industry, and that's really what we're trying to do in marketing anyway.
Tracy Borreson [00:04:04]:
So Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:04:06]:
Yeah. I was, I was on a, a meeting with a a bunch of other company directors recently, and we were talking about the disconnect of marketing in organizations and talking about the fact that so often, you know, marketing is doing something which, you know, then can't be delivered by by by sales and can't be delivered by operations. And as a result, what you end up with is marketing fighting and saying to people, but we should be doing this. And the answer is, yeah, that might be what you want. But, unfortunately, the rest of the organization can't do it. You're just making yourselves look unauthentic as you say or end up in a situation where there's there's infighting, and it's not collaborative. And as a result, what do you end up with? You just you've somebody looks at the marketing and goes, great. I'd like that experience.
Stuart Webb [00:04:50]:
But when they get delivered that product or service, it doesn't match what they believed, and they will they will then just turn off. And that would that'll be that'll be the end of their their interaction with that that particular company. So being authentic is so important to the whole experience that you have, not only the marketing, but how it gets delivered, whether the salespeople can sort of live up to the promises. It has to be one thing that everybody can can can live to.
Tracy Borreson [00:05:13]:
Yeah. It's a it's a we exercise. And the we is marketing and sales and customer experience and operations and the delivery truck drivers and whoever else is involved in this company going to market. And it's also the we in the ideal customers and partners and vendors and, like, all of these things. This is a we exercise, and it's something that it's it's just very interesting. It it I'm not gonna say it's not complex because the more people you a thing, the more complex the interrelationships between humans become. But at the end of the day, this is about, okay, we are all here for one reason. There's a famous quote by a, janitor at NASA who was at like, what do you do here? And he is like, putting a man on the moon.
Tracy Borreson [00:06:10]:
Like, that's what we're doing here. And we all have our different roles in that, but when you have that kind of commitment from a we, then, like, it makes a huge difference and not that makes it huge difference internally, which then makes a huge difference externally.
Stuart Webb [00:06:27]:
And and we sort of strayed into it, Tracy, but, you know, at this stage, it's sort of you know, what is it you see people doing, which which, you know, we've sort of talked about it a little bit where where it is unauthentic, where people are not doing something which which is authentic to their to their marketing efforts and somehow makes it look as if they're liars?
Tracy Borreson [00:06:49]:
I mean, quite honestly, I think a lot of the times, it comes back to doing the easy thing. And if you're just listening, I used air quotes in there because it's sold to you as if it's the easy thing, as if you just do this. I have this ex like, personal example that I always reference, which is, like, I hand chop nuts almost every day to go in yogurt or granola or whatever. I I and I like to do it. It makes me feel like a top chef, and I am very far from a top chef. Let's put it that way. And my dad was at my house once, and he was observing me chopping these nuts, and he was like, you need a slap chop. And I was like, I mean, a slap chop would make this easier, and it would make it faster, but it would also take away all of the joy that I have in doing the activity.
Tracy Borreson [00:07:45]:
And so I have not got one. I told him not to buy me one because he's also the type of guy who would be helpful and just get you one. And it's like, no. I like to do I like to do this, and this is the thing where we're, like, so caught up in this ease of use conversation because we just everything want everything to be faster. We want everything to be more simple, and we miss that we're trading away what is meaningful for us to do those things, and then we have businesses who are in business using their marketing departments to just convince people that what you need is my easy thing. Right? You you don't have my easy thing. It fixes all your problems, except most people don't know enough why they have a problem to answer that question, to say, like, yeah. That actually fixes my problem because in my scenario, I don't have a problem.
Tracy Borreson [00:08:38]:
I don't have a problem with chopping nuts. Right? So now your slap chop is irrelevant to me because I don't have a problem with that activity and but the people in this scenario, the company, put yourself in my nut shopping shoes as a business, you don't know enough about what your problem is to say, I don't need your slap show. Right? Like, I don't need your website design services. I don't need your podcast production services. I don't need wherever. I I don't know what I need. So the answer is really in that, like, going back to basics and saying, like, what's the problem here? Because the problem is our problem isn't we'd need to chop nuts faster. That's not our problem.
Tracy Borreson [00:09:26]:
What's our problem? Okay. Let's go to market and see what's out there to fix that problem and let or from the flip side, if you're not looking at it from, like, marketing perspective, now you have really good clarity on the problem. You fix for people, and you tell the market it. Right? Yeah. No. I don't know how many slabchops have been sold. A lot of them. Right? There are lots of people out there who have problems chopping nuts.
Tracy Borreson [00:09:52]:
Sure. Get a Slack job. I don't have 1 though, so that's not the prob that's not a problem for me. There are problems I have, but it's not that problem.
Stuart Webb [00:10:02]:
Yeah. There are so many people that sort of you know, and I I come across this with people who are teaching lead generation. I'm I'm using air quotes as well now. So we're we're all into the lead generation, lead generation services on LinkedIn, which is, you know, the first thing you have to do is sort of, say hello. And then immediately, the message goes back where where you know, hello. And then do you want such and such? You know, I get I must get I don't know how many a day. I've sort of, you know we've seen your podcast. You must need podcast production services.
Stuart Webb [00:10:30]:
My answer is, hang on a minute. You haven't even asked me whether or not that's a problem. You don't know yet whether or not that's my problem. I have problems, but you haven't actually even bothered to reach out and find out whether or not. And I was talking to, you know, a client actually today who was who was actually sort of saying, you know, about their the the the they've they're trying to gen they're trying to write a course for a for a particular standard. And and I said said, well, you know, are are customers coming to you and asking for this course? And his answer was, well, they have they do once we've told them they need it. And I said, and why don't they need it? And he said, well, we're dealing with industrial places, and they're all using the domestic standard, and they don't know that there's an industrial standard. And so the first thing they come to us to say is, can you can you, can you implement this regulation? And they go, yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:11:23]:
We can, but, actually, you need this one. And they go, oh, why do we need that one? And then they start the education, and he said we it's only after they've we've engaged with them and started talking to them that they recognize that what they initially thought they wanted isn't what they want. And that some somehow and I sort of said, like, I love the way you're doing it, but the major problem you've got at the moment is that you haven't yet engaged with the number of people that actually have a problem and don't know they've got a problem. It's exactly what you were saying. Too many people are reaching out and sort of basically trying to thrust down the throat. You that'll solve your problem. You don't even know you got a problem yet, so they're trying to reeducate their educate their their market, which is proving to be the the the thing which is gonna cost them the most, but it's gonna be the most profitable in the end.
Tracy Borreson [00:12:08]:
Well and I think that's that is exactly the point. Right? And is that the thing that's gonna be all most profitable for everybody in the end? No. A lot of people go to market with this education component assuming that if I educate you, then you will buy what I need, but this is not then really education, right? This is persuasion, so let's call it what it is, and it's not that it, it's not that it can't work. Right? It can work. It has worked. It has worked on me, right, but is that what you can find yourself committed to doing for the long term? And these are the things about, like, like, the lead gen on LinkedIn is that, like, this strategy is based on I call spray and pray. And I spray my message everywhere, and I pray that it lands with somebody because there are people out there that have a problem, but I am not doing anything intentionally to find a person who has a problem. I'm just spraying the market with stuff.
Tracy Borreson [00:13:16]:
When you have a very small percentage of the market that has your problem, you're gonna spend a lot of money on that strategy before you find somebody, and if you're a business that doesn't have a lot of money, including the time you're paying somebody to do those activities to do that, then that's probably not the right strategy for you. Can it work? Sure. I'm more of a fan of the shoot the fish in the barrel analogy. You got all these fish in a barrel and, well, I'm not trying to shoot people, but, like, everything is sounds like I'm very into guns, and I'm Canadian, and I'm not, but it's like but these are the points. Right? Like, that's more of a me. I wanna, like, kinda wrap people in a community, and then I wanna see if there's something in there that is is is worth mining instead of, like, I wanna go out and, like, just and so the the secret there is in being able to say, I don't wanna do that. Somebody who tells you I had this guy once on LinkedIn, and I've, like, referenced him pretty much every conversation trying to convince me that if I don't do prerecorded video, I will never have a successful business. And I was like, I hate prerecorded video.
Tracy Borreson [00:14:32]:
I just don't believe what you're saying, and you should spend your energy somewhere else convincing someone else who is opening to listen to you because it's not gonna be me. You can try and peer pressure me all you want. I will never believe what you're saying and just move on, and, again, it's not that, like, video is bad. Right? It's just not something I'm ever gonna do because I'm totally uncomfortable with it. I waste a huge amount of time doing it. It's not for me. So being able to stand up for what's not for you, what is for you when someone else is telling you that that is bunk, and you're like, well, I've built an entire funnel based off them that works for me, and you have the confidence to say, this is my way of doing it, then we're into the realm where you can have a sustainable growth focused marketing program.
Stuart Webb [00:15:20]:
Brilliant. Tracy, there must be some stuff that you've got on, your websites and things like that. Is there a is there a one particular thing that you find that most people would be most interested in that that talk to them about, you know, some valuable advice that you could give. And I I put your LinkedIn profile on the screen, which is linkedin.com/in/brands that speak. Is it is it is it stuff that you you you we should know about that you give away and help people to understand how to do this sort of thing?
Tracy Borreson [00:15:52]:
So the first thing that I personally love is my LinkedIn live show, which is called the Crazy Stupid Marketing Show, which Stewart is gonna be on in the future. The show is based on helping people understand what they're doing from a marketing perspective that is crazy and stupid and not going to lead you in the direction you wanna go and opening the door to perhaps more empowering perspectives that can allow you to do things that are more meaningful and more sustainable for your business. So that is one of the things I love to do. It's on Tuesday afternoons, depending on where you are in the world. It's on. Actually, I have a guest from, Australia later today, and it's technically Wednesday morning for him. But, anyway, it's it's it's a show, and it's on LinkedIn. You can find it.
Tracy Borreson [00:16:41]:
You can also find it on YouTube. Crazy stupid marketing. The other thing that I really love to do, and I do this with, a lot of the workshops that I host, is something called I mean, I call it the personal brand campfire. You can do it equally from a business perspective too. It is an audio experience. It's available on my website, and what it does is it's it's kinda like a meditation that helps get you re centered on who you are and how you show up, and then using that as a foundation allows you to choose marketing strategies, sales strategies, narratives. What I mean, honestly, you could use it to start your day and have a productive conversation with your kids. It helps you get realigned to what would you do and what does it feel like to be in your most authentic expression of yourself and how can you start with that visualization and let it roll out into your day, into whatever you're going to do that day.
Tracy Borreson [00:17:46]:
It could be goal setting. It could be KPIs. It could be pretty much anything. It's about starting from you. So that is something that's available on my website. People can feel free to go and download that. I think it's like a 4 and a half minute thing, audio experience, and, yeah, give it a try. I have some clients who, like, do it every morning.
Stuart Webb [00:18:07]:
Brilliant. What was it that re initially got you, or or or or is there a valuable book or something that you recommend your clients read or that you read yourself that that sort of helps to to center people around authentic marketing?
Tracy Borreson [00:18:23]:
I have 2, and neither of them are actually marketing related books. So the first one is a book I recommend to pretty much everybody that I meet. Again, regardless of whether you are running your own business or you're just a human doing life, it's called The One Thing, and it's a book about focusing on what's important. So again, whether you're trying to do that from a business perspective or a life perspective, it's very empowering. The central question of the book is what is the one thing I can do right now that will make all other things easier or unnecessary? And as soon as I heard that, I was like, this is genius. This is going to be my life. Yeah. It's a great idea.
Tracy Borreson [00:19:06]:
And you will be surprised. Right? I'm like, you can look at what can you do in your, like, list of chores at home? What are the things that you can do with your kids? What are the things you can do in your business? What are the things you can do in your marketing? It is really, like, a very global question that is very, very empowering, allows you to get back to the simplicity of that. Secondly, a book called The Art of Gathering, and so
Stuart Webb [00:19:33]:
to me
Tracy Borreson [00:19:34]:
yeah. Okay. So I love it. I have it on repeat on my Audible. It is a book about people being together. And so for me, I believe that marketing is about creating a community of people, and so that is tied into the art of gathering. And whether you're hosting events or you're looking at this from a marketing perspective or you're having a birthday party or what have you, this book brings about so many interesting ideas of what it looks like for humans to connect with humans, and that is one of the things that I like the most about it.
Stuart Webb [00:20:12]:
I have made a note of the book of The Art of Gathering, and I love the idea behind that. That is one that we'll be getting, that will be getting into my, my bookshelves very soon. And on that one thing, you know, the what a mentor of mine said to me many years ago, they they they they sat me down, and they I'm you know? This was back in the days when I was, a a young young young, you know, research student.
Tracy Borreson [00:20:36]:
So yesterday?
Stuart Webb [00:20:37]:
Back yesterday. Yeah. And they turned around to me and they said, look. If you can get one thing done tomorrow morning before 11 o'clock, that means you've moved forward 1 step. The rest of the day, you can take off. And if you get 2 things done by doing it by 11 and then 1 after 11, you've almost brought yourself back a new day. And I sat there and I thought one thing by 11 o'clock, I can do that. I can do 1 thing by 11 o'clock, and it's become a habit.
Stuart Webb [00:21:08]:
You know, I sit down at the end of every evening. I sit down and I write the one thing that I'm gonna do tomorrow morning before I get onto my emails, before I do anything else, before I receive a telephone call or anything, I'm gonna do that one thing that moves the business forward. And then if I achieve it by 11 o'clock, the rest of the day is mine. I can take the rest of the day off if I like, or I can try and do a second thing. And it's such a simple idea, isn't it, to do one thing? Just one. But it's possible. Your brain can compute one thing.
Tracy Borreson [00:21:40]:
It's true. Although I will also say having be being a check a checklist person, there's a lot of things that we put on a list that we do that aren't meaningful.
Stuart Webb [00:21:54]:
Yeah.
Tracy Borreson [00:21:54]:
That aren't meaningful to the relationship we're building, that aren't meaningful to the businesses we're building. And I think that is probably the toughest arena to explore is that you could go from doing a 100 things that are not meaningful in one day to doing one meaningful thing.
Stuart Webb [00:22:14]:
Yeah. You're right. You're absolutely right. The seek one of the secrets I learned when I was doing 1 training course is I did a statistical thing, and I turned around and said, you mean the important thing is to ask the right question? And he went, yes. That's it. It's asked the right question. You can ask a 1000000 questions and get an answer. But unless you've asked the right question, every answer you've got is wrong.
Tracy Borreson [00:22:37]:
It's so true. I remember having this conversation with 1 of the ladies who is on my show, and she got this opportunity to, have a booth at a trade show, and so she had asked me. She's like, okay, I know you know about, like, what are what are the things someone would normally have at a trade show booth? And I was like, well, some of the things people would normally have at a trade show booth are a table and some chairs and some swag and a banner and a video with rotating video of your cup like, this is what people would typically have, but is that what you would have? And she was like, ugh. No. Okay. That's the point. Right? The the point is the question isn't what should I have. Right? Like, it's what what what would I create? Right? What experience do you want people to take away of you from this trade show? Do you want to just do what everybody else is doing, or do you want to look different? And, like, this is my people.
Tracy Borreson [00:23:37]:
We're talking about, so, obviously, she wants to look different, but, like, these are these are the things, and also this is why I believe it's so powerful to be surrounded by a community of people who are curious in that nature. What would you do? This is the thing I always think about. Even when it like I was young, I had nobody ask me that question. Right? I I went into the program. People told me what I should do. This is a good idea. I I did that for a very long time. Got to the point where I was like, well, that's not what I could do.
Tracy Borreson [00:24:07]:
Then had to figure out, what would I do? I'm still in the process of figuring out what I would do. I feel like this is a lifelong journey. But when you surround yourself with people asking you what you would do instead of surrounding yourself with people telling you what you should do, your experience from a personal and a business perspective changes, dress.
Stuart Webb [00:24:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Look, Tracy, up until now, I've been doing all the work asking you all these questions, and there must be a question that you're thinking to yourself. Hey. He hasn't asked me about such and such. So what is that 1 question that I should be asking you? And, of course, once I've, you once you've asked that question, you're you're gonna need to answer it for
Tracy Borreson [00:24:46]:
us. You know, it's funny because I knew this question was coming, and then I feel like I kinda, like, answered my own questions the way along because that's how I do. But I think one of the most powerful things in this process is, like, how do you move? Like, how do you go from where you are today to having confidence in the way you would do things? So that's the question I will ask myself. My answer is practice. You have to practice. It's yeah. So I grew up playing competitive basketball. We're city champions when I was in high school, and so, I mean, it's cities.
Tracy Borreson [00:25:28]:
It's not like, woo, the biggest thing, but it was a championship basketball team And a lot of the times I look at what are the difference between a championship team and a not championship team? And almost always, it's because of practice. Mhmm. Yeah. And it's not also because of just, like, individual practice. A whole bunch of players can go out and practice alone and it doesn't mean that your team is going to jail. It was a we activity and we practiced. We practiced and we ran and we did stairs. We did sprints and we shot free throws and, like, I don't even know.
Tracy Borreson [00:26:02]:
I kinda wish I had counted how many free throws I have shot in my life so that I could get to the point where I can shoot 80% from a free throw line. Like, it doesn't happen the 1st time you shoot the ball. Right? It doesn't, and so many times in business and from a marketing perspective and from a personal development perspective, we think we get this idea. Right? Okay. I'm gonna be authentic. I'm gonna go and and and do it my way, and then we don't because we don't know how to do that.
Stuart Webb [00:26:32]:
Yeah.
Tracy Borreson [00:26:33]:
So you have to go idiot. To the basketball court and shoot. You have to shoot, and you have to miss. You have to get it wrong. There's no 100 percents here. So practice. You gotta practice.
Stuart Webb [00:26:46]:
And and fail. You know? Sometimes sometimes you have to allow yourself to fail because I I said this sorry. Once again, I said this to another client recently who turned around and said something along the lines of what happens if it doesn't work? And I said, do you know how a baby learns to walk? A baby learns to walk by getting up, falling on their backside, and thinking, well, I'm not gonna do that again. I'll do it different. And you don't learn and get it right by by just waiting and waiting and waiting until eventually it becomes right. You have to get out, do something, practice it, and if it goes wrong, well, okay. That's one way that you don't do it the next time. And even if it does go wrong, nobody died.
Tracy Borreson [00:27:28]:
Well and especially okay. I had a boss once working in marketing. He used to always say, we're not saving babies, which I 1, just resounded with me, 1, because my mom was a neonatal nurse, so it was actually her job to save babies. It has never been my job to save babies. Also, I can't handle the sight of blood, and my mom is a nurse. I don't know. Person. There's no problem, but, like, we're from a marketing perspective, folks, like, this is not if you are doing flyers and they don't go out till Tuesday when they were supposed to go out on Monday, doesn't matter.
Tracy Borreson [00:28:09]:
Right? Like, it just doesn't matter. And maybe maybe you learn like, okay. Yeah. They do need to go out on Monday to give people enough time to know because there's people like me who don't check their mailboxes for, like, 2 weeks, which is yeah. That's a thing I do. I have the worst checking my mail. Don't mail me something important, folks, unless you're gonna tell me it's coming. But, like, you learn from getting it wrong, and if you aren't, if you aren't, then you're just a baby who lies there.
Tracy Borreson [00:28:38]:
You're not even a baby who learned how to crawl. Right? Babies learned how to crawl. They learned how to walk. They learned how to ride a bike. They learned how to run. Right? Like, that's a that's a staged methodology, and if you don't experiment at the very first step, you are never going to get to running. So if you are hoping that there's some kind of magic that exists to take you from stage 0, lying there flat on your back like a baby in your marketing, all the way up to running and beating your competitors ahead of all your competitors in the market, it has to come from experimentation. You have to experiment and you have to get it wrong.
Tracy Borreson [00:29:15]:
You have to fall down. So if you also are looking for someone who's, like, going to promise you that this is going to work a 100% of the time and it's not a thing, guys, because you haven't done it before. That same that same methodology hasn't been tried on by your body type, so you don't know that it gets until you try it on, and then you're like, oh, no. This doesn't fit. Let's not do that. But I did kinda like that. Like, I like the color of that shirt, but I don't like the cut of that shirt. So I'm gonna look for more shirts that are that color, but not that same kind of This is how humans get learn how to walk.
Tracy Borreson [00:29:51]:
It's how we choose clothes. It's this is the same methodology for your marketing as well.
Stuart Webb [00:29:57]:
Tracy, yep. I I I love the ideas. I love that. We think we could go on for hours, but we better let you get back to doing something important, and meeting with your customers. Folks, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna wrap up. And and now if you wanna go to, this link, h t t p s, colon forward slash forward slash link .thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link .thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. Fill out the form there.
Stuart Webb [00:30:25]:
Get onto the newsletter list so that you can get an email from me with some of the brilliant people that we're gonna have on in the future, like Tracy. I'm gonna give you words of wisdom like this. You can't believe. Tracy, thank you so much for spending some time with us. You have such an infectious attitude and such an infectious spirit. I love what you're saying. I really believe if you can't get authentic with you, you can't get authentic with anybody. So thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.
Stuart Webb [00:30:51]:
I look forward to hearing what people think about what you've said and, being authentic with it.
Tracy Borreson [00:30:58]:
Awesome. Thank you for the opportunity,

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Ben Dickie (ep. 101)
21 mar· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Ben?
Ben Dickie is the co-founder of Hivemind, a platform designed to provide flexible and dynamic access to expertise for executives and business leaders within enterprise organizations. With a focus on transformation and innovation, Hivemind connects these leaders with specialists in a meaningful way. Ben's vision for the platform is to enable executives to access the right consulting support at the right time, ultimately moving their businesses forward. Hivemind also serves as a networking environment for independent experts who have left industry to set up their own consulting businesses or work as independent contractors. Ben's goal is to create a space where these individuals can share and learn from one another, ultimately driving success for all involved.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Hivemind provides flexible consulting support for execs.
04:23 Clients are unique, need change management investment.
10:55 Hivemind offers diverse expertise and adaptable methods.
14:13 Helping organizations create their vision for success.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
https://assess.hivemindconsulting.com/transform1
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/H0p3Ex3SDaw?feature=share
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
business technology consultants, positive sustainable change, Hivemind Consulting Network, enterprise organizations, transformation specialist, innovation specialist, medium and large sized enterprises, independent expert, shared values, independent contractor, change management, investment in change management, transformation readiness, transformation programs, fractional role, communities of excellence, transformation and change, small independent consultants, traditional consultancies, shared learning, networks, expertise, transformation and change community, transformation and change framework, transformation and change literature, small groups working together, Be More Pirate book, pirate culture, future vision, FTSE 100 businesses
SPEAKERS
Ben Dickie, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:22]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee. My coffee is here. It's nearly gone actually because it's, it's been it's been a lot to do this morning. I'm really grateful that we've got time from Ben Dickey This morning to talk to us. Ben is the chief revenue officer and cofounder of the Hind Hivemind Consulting Network, A global network of really business, technology consultants driven by a lot of shared values and a desire to make a Positive sustainable change in in business today. So, Ben, really grateful for you making a few minutes, for us today. Thank you for your contribution to It's Not Rocket Science. Five questions over coffee.
Ben Dickie [00:01:04]:
Delighted to be here, although my, my coffee sadly empty as well.
Stuart Webb [00:01:10]:
What can I say? Sometimes sometimes you have to actually stop drinking the coffee and do work, but, you know, we'll try to avoid that for the next few minutes. Listen. Just just tell us a little bit about sort of, you know, what you're trying to achieve with with Hivemind. Who are the who are the sort of people that you're attempting to to help overcome some of the problems they've got in a different way.
Ben Dickie [00:01:33]:
Sure. Yeah. So Webb founded Hivemind. It's our 10 10 year, anniversary or our 10th birthday this year. Yeah. Yeah. We've got 2 distinctly different, customers as as we see it. So our our focus, I think to answer your question is is primarily with medium and large sized enterprises.
Ben Dickie [00:01:57]:
So execs, Yeah. Executives and and business leaders within enterprise organizations who are Transforming and changing their their their business or or they're looking to innovate. And so With with that customer group in mind, we founded Hivemind really to provide a more flexible, and dynamic way For for execs in in those organizations to access expertise, so external consulting support At the right time and and for just the right amount of time. So enabling them to to interact with Transformation specialist or innovation specialist like yourself, Stuart, to To five, yeah, to to move their business forward in a in a in a really meaningful way. And, yeah, the the our over customer group It's, so it is is the independent, expert. So individuals who Yeah. For for for over variety of reasons, it's becoming more and more, more and more popular over more and more commonplace, decided to leave the, leave industry and set up their own, their own consulting business or strike out as an independent contractor. The network provides, an environment for them to share and learn with, with others.
Ben Dickie [00:03:24]:
It's a network of like minded, individuals with, as as you said, a shared a shared set of, of of principles or or values, but ultimately driven To do the work that they enjoy and and five, and, and to and to make an impact and a difference for, yeah, for for for for clients and and the the wider community.
Stuart Webb [00:03:49]:
And and and we could talk for hours about sort of, you know, the the value of of shared learning and shared networks. But but for for the purposes of this, because I'm I'm hoping that what we got are people who are who are watching us, who are, you know, that That target, customer that you're trying to help, you know, they they will have been working with traditional consultancies, Small independent, consultants themselves. What what is what is the problem that they really face that that you are addressing in a slightly different way of working.
Ben Dickie [00:04:23]:
Yeah. I think I mean, every client That we work with is is is unique. I think they have their own, you know, their their own culture and their own their own ways of working. The common threads that we see, are are specifically around change and and transformation Our, you know, change changing big organizations is really, really hard, and, It Stuart with with the exact leadership and and the vision for, for for for change and transformation. And, and and and I would say then, yeah, having having worked on more than a dozen, large transformation programs, I think most organizations underestimate the, the the impact an investment needed in in change management. So once they've set a vision and a course of direction, It's really all about the people in in the organization and and probably some of the more, yeah, some of the more challenging environments that we've, that we've worked in, are those where change management and the effort required there in investment required there has been, been been underestimated, And and what were successful, where we've where we've been working with them from the beginning is really rightsizing that, After understanding the impact of the the change that they want to make on the on the people in in the business, and, and then proactively managing that on an ongoing, on an ongoing basis.
Stuart Webb [00:06:06]:
So so so it so so the five mind is obviously better at Estimating some of those things. Where where does that where does that expertise come from?
Ben Dickie [00:06:14]:
It comes from the the the 2nd group of customers that I mentioned. So we we've we've now got over 2,000, leading independent Consultant and expert, really practitioners. So, you know, these are these are people who've been, successful and I had successful careers over, over the years that have have now decided to, yeah, decided to To set up their own business or or to become independent, and some of that's, I think being a, Having a fractional role or being able to support 1 or 2 or or more clients is is becoming more attractive to, to to people with expertise in, and Hivemind provides a, Hivemind provides an environment where All of our members are able to retain their own independence, so still free to go and win work outside of five mind and and continue supporting customers that they've worked with previously, but also have the opportunity then to work on, Projects and engagements as a as a collective where, where their their unique experience is, is valuable to One of our end clients, challenges and, and and issues. So we organize, yeah, we organize those experts In, yeah, in in communities of excellence, and, and then look to surface the, you know, the The the leading approaches and and also learn from, from from unsuccessful, unsuccessful interactions as well.
Stuart Webb [00:07:53]:
Yeah. It's those, it as, as as as I've often had to explain it to people when they turn around and ask, you know, so what What what is it that's different about somebody like you? And the answer is, you know, I've got the the the, the the story the war stories to tell, the scars that I can prove But that's not the way you do it. I've I've found a better way now.
Ben Dickie [00:08:13]:
Yeah. It's it's it's exactly that, Stuart. I think all of our, All of the practitioners in in in our communities have probably as many, as as many lessons learned from things that didn't quite go go to planning in their corporate career as as they have got, you know, awards and and stars for, For for for real successful, outcomes that they've achieved and and what we enable when we're taking our clients, The the end clients, the enterprise clients on a on a journey through, through change and transformation or over innovation Is, is is bringing to bear really all of that experience so that we can we can help them avoid, mistakes that that folks in our organization have have made in the past.
Stuart Webb [00:09:04]:
Yeah. Brilliant. Ben, I think you've got a, I'm just gonna pop it up now. I think there's a there's a there's a, a a valuable, piece of free advice or or Guidance, however you'd like to describe it, that I've just put on screen now, which is assess. Hivemindconsulting.com Forward slash transform. What do do you wanna just describe what that, that valuable offer is?
Ben Dickie [00:09:27]:
Sure. Yeah. It's I mean, it's it's Taking on the, yeah, taking the learnings and the insight from, our transformation and and change community. We we built a, sort of a short, maybe five 5 to 10 minute, online assessment that that looks at really looks at transformation readiness. So if you're either A bank to embark on a change in transformation program, or you're in the middle of 1, and it's not going as well as, as as well as it could. It's really just a, yeah, an an online diagnostic to get to, in in six Six core areas. What what might be the root cause of, the transformation program not going as smoothly as it could or or really just to make sure that you've got, You're considering the the core, yeah, the the core elements of transformation ahead of, ahead of getting started and making a big investment and and a big change in the business.
Stuart Webb [00:10:32]:
So so leading into that, is there a particular course or Book or or program or something which which which has led you to to understand how those elements are important to transformation and how to to Better do things as as you're advocating than than than more traditional consultancies might might make it.
Ben Dickie [00:10:55]:
It's a really it's a it's a really good question. The there's, there's huge amounts of, of literature On, on on transformation and change, and there's there's, yeah, lots of of frameworks and methods and and tools. And, I think probably one of the advantages that that Hivemind brings is that we, We we've got such a broad church of of, practitioners and specialists and experts, and so Webb we try not to make the clients fit the methodology and rather understand the client's environment and, and and look to leverage The right the right tools or, or or or methods. I I think the, you you you mentioned is there a is there a book or or a resource, and and One that we, one that we went through last year, actually, in there's there's a there's a book club for the practitioners in in in in your network. And one of the books that that was, that was in in the book club last year was Be More Pirate, Which, I don't know if you've if you've come across.
Stuart Webb [00:12:03]:
Come across that one. That's one to go on my list.
Ben Dickie [00:12:06]:
Really, really odd title, But, actually, a fascinating, a fascinating read and and kind of draws parallels between the, the the pirates of the, Well, the the famous pirates of the Caribbean and the Blackbeards and and how, they were really driving, and and there were there were, Yeah. Lasting impacts of, of of kind of pirate culture in, in in our society today. So, The the real strong message that comes out in in that in that book is how, yeah, smaller focused Groups of, of people working together can can five, you know, a a much can have a really significant impact, and and that's our, Yeah. On unwittingly or knowingly kind of call to how we work at Hivemind having having small groups of, of really dedicated and committed people Working together to achieve really big things.
Stuart Webb [00:13:06]:
And is it absolutely critical that every single one of those persons has a, pirate, a a a patch, And a a peg leg to go with it, Ben, or is now are those now optionals in the pirate world?
Ben Dickie [00:13:18]:
Yeah. It's a so totally optional. And No. No. Good to know.
Stuart Webb [00:13:22]:
Good to know.
Ben Dickie [00:13:23]:
No pirate nicknames are given out. It's a yeah. But yeah. So I Personally recommend having a, having a read of that if, if if you five, like
Stuart Webb [00:13:35]:
It's it's it's on the list. I will go and look at my, My hat and, and my hat and immediately see what I can do about it.
Ben Dickie [00:13:43]:
I mean,
Stuart Webb [00:13:43]:
we you we're kinda coming towards the end, Ben, so there must be 1 question that you're currently thinking, I wish he'd asked me about, such and such. And so this is the bit where I sit back and go, well, you can do the work for once in your life. So, What is the question that I should five asked you by now? And, obviously, once you have, given me what the question is, you will obviously need to answer it. So What's the question you want to, you want me to ask you? And then please give us the answer to it anyway.
Ben Dickie [00:14:13]:
Okay. I think for, yeah, for, I think for for me, The question on where we where we would be how you know, how how how can we how can people get started working with Highfines, and and what's the most what's part of the most valuable work that we do? And I'd say, really, it's it's helping organizations create their, their their future vision. So considering where they are and, and and really working working with an external organization on, On on, yeah, tapping into the knowledge and experience that they've got across their senior executives, Setting a, setting a really strong vision up for changing or transforming the organization is is is probably the most important, Activity to undertake to ensure ensure success, and and it's something that we've, you know, we've we've we've got Really, really strong practitioners. Lots of really great experience in in doing and achieving, and, from from midsize organizations right way through to, to FTSE 100, businesses. And I and I think very, very much along the the the theme of, of of the pirate book with a, you know, with a with a really small initial team and small initial investment, that's the that's the starting starting point to to to kicking off successful change and and transformation.
Stuart Webb [00:15:45]:
Ben, that's absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for your time today. Just point people back to that, free assessment, which is, assess.hypemindconsulting.comforward/transformone. And and if you'd like to get on to the mailing list to hear over, brilliant speakers, I I send an email letting people know Who's coming up and and and and so that you can prepare and and get ready to ask questions on the on the live chat? Get on to that list by going to link dotthecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's a link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter, and, and we'll see you at another one of these in a few days' time. Ben, I really appreciate, you spending a few minutes with us now. Thank you so much for spending some of your I know it's valuable time because you're a busy guy. I really appreciate you coming on and telling us a bit more about the hive mind.
Ben Dickie [00:16:42]:
No problem

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Sneha Mandala (ep. 100)
7 mar· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Sneha?
Sneha Mandala started her career with high hopes and determination to succeed. She joined her first job with a mindset to give her all and perform at her best, aiming to see where it would take her in her career. However, as time passed, her enthusiasm and engagement dwindled, reflecting a common struggle many employees face. Sneha's story serves as a reminder of the importance of maintaining passion and drive in the workplace to avoid the negative impact on businesses.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Businesses struggle with workforce productivity and engagement.
06:19 Seek joy and flow at work, succeed.
10:28 We spend 100000 hours at work lifetime.
11:44 Praise for Sneha and invitation to join mailing list.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
https://www.linkedin.com/in/snehamandala/
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/xVziTz9lpB0
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter
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————————————————————————————————————————————-
Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Sneha Mandala, TEDx keynote speaker, coach, adviser, employee engagement, work culture, flow state, suboptimally, CEOs, workforce productivity, engagement levels, HR department, Band Aid fixes, happiness, satisfaction, engagement surveys, flow state, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, Steven Kotler, peak performance, corporate setting, 5th question, work culture, work enjoyment, effortless work, mailing list, podcast, work culture transformation.
SPEAKERS
Sneha Mandala, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:22]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science five questions over coffee. I haven't actually got in front of me. This is a lemon tea. Sneha, I believe you've got something in front of you at the moment. So, Sneha, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science. Five questions over coffee.
Sneha Mandala [00:00:38]:
Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Stuart Webb [00:00:40]:
Sneha is a TEDx keynote speaker. She is A, coach and adviser on, employee engagement, work culture, and she, works with people to get them into a great flow state as part of their work. So, Sneha, welcome to the podcast. We're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say.
Sneha Mandala [00:01:01]:
Thank you so much, Stuart. I'm sure this is gonna be a fun conversation.
Stuart Webb [00:01:06]:
So so I I mentioned then the sort of The the sort of problems that people have getting into a sort of their state at work. What are the issues that you see with people when they are working, Suboptimally, and CEOs find that they don't have, optimal engagement from their from their people.
Sneha Mandala [00:01:25]:
Thank you. So think about this particular employee. Okay? Imagine an employee who who has just gotten started in their career. Now they're not signing up for that 1st job of the career thinking that they are doomed to fail. Right? They are thinking, I would love to give it my everything. I would like to give it my best. I would like to perform at my We can see where this is going to take me in my career. But, flash forward to a year or 2 in, You don't see the same amount of enthusiasm and engagement in that employee, and this is where businesses suffer.
Sneha Mandala [00:02:01]:
They think they're hiring great people for these jobs, and then a few months in or a year in, they see the productivity lacking. They see engagement levels dropping, and that's what a lot of business owners and CEOs are worried about. We thought we are we were hiring all stars, And now they are on the verge of leaving. And worse, if they're not leaving, they're just coasting here at work. Studies show that, The American workforce on average spends less than 4 hours productive being productive, during a workday, which is just astonishing. Yes. So those are the challenges that businesses are currently facing. You have on one side a leader that wants extraordinary results but is not getting them through the workforce.
Sneha Mandala [00:02:54]:
On the other hand, you have an employee who is feeling dull, exhausted, not very engaged at work. And everything I talk about is how do we make sure that these 2 things are occurring harmoniously at at work. Mhmm.
Stuart Webb [00:03:11]:
So so what are the things that CEOs are trying to do to get that back which are which are not working?
Sneha Mandala [00:03:19]:
Yes. So one of the things that CEOs typically tend to do is they go to their HR department and they say, hey. We would like to increase our engagement levels. We wanna keep our Employees happier, and more satisfied. And what the HR department, comes up with is, sure. Let's Have over Tuesdays and free pizza Fridays or five, ping pong tables in in, lunchrooms. And somehow they would think that, the dissatisfied and disengaged employees would magically become a 100% engaged at work. And the problem is They don't.
Sneha Mandala [00:03:54]:
These are simply Band Aid fixes that help in the short term, but not in the long term. So if I'm an employee and I'm dissatisfied, I see, you know, free pizza Friday, and that's gonna momentarily make me feel, oh, Okay. This place has its own perks, but the moment, a shiny new object passes by so in a another words, A recruiter with a better package, tries to post them, they are ready to jump ship like that. So I like to compare this, with relationships. So trying to keep your employees happy and satisfied using these Band Aid fixes is like dating. But what we are really looking for is not dating. We're looking to put a ring on the finger. We're looking to get them feel committed and engaged to the larger organizational No goals here.
Sneha Mandala [00:04:46]:
So when I work with CEOs, I clearly distinguish that, hey. We're not looking to make them happy and satisfied Because that's not going to, contribute to productivity. That's not going to contribute to create them being creative and innovative and, More, raising the bar at work. We are looking to get them feel more engaged and committed to, to understand what their personal goals are and how they connect to the larger organization picture. And that's when leaders are just five they stop Dead in their tracks, and they're like, what? Were we thinking about the wrong thing all this while? Were we measuring the wrong things all this time. So, for example, when they implement engagement surveys, they're really measuring happiness and satisfaction and not really engagement. So, that self awareness, I feel, is the 1st step to going down in the right direction towards building that higher performance and engagement and employees, And that's the moment for leaders.
Stuart Webb [00:05:48]:
And is there a one piece of advice or valuable offer you can give people to really sort of help them get message?
Sneha Mandala [00:05:56]:
Absolutely. And I have this message both for employees as well as leaders. So Think about this. If you are spending all of these hours, we spend more time at work than we spend with ourselves or with our loved ones. And those are all the hours that you could be smiling. You could be engaged. You could be passionate. You could be committed at work.
Sneha Mandala [00:06:19]:
And, Unfortunately, that's not the case for many employees and in many businesses. So the one piece of advice that I would love to give to leaders as well as employees is that, when you can feel alive at work, why not chase that feeling? When you can make your work Feel not like work. Make your work feel more effortless. Why not chase that? And that is where the whole concept of flow state comes into picture. A flow Stuart, as described by a positive psychologist, is A point in time where you are your mind and your body are performing at their optimal levels because you're so engrossed In what you're doing, your attention as it's is at its peak. Your performance and your creativity levels are at their peak. So this Stuart is the only time when an individual can perform in the highest possible manner While their stress levels are the lowest, isn't that what we all want, that work to be producing amazing results while not burning out. That's what employees want.
Sneha Mandala [00:07:31]:
That's what leaders want. So how do you create the conditions of flow at work? Work. Employees do things. Look for things that you five to do at work And try as much as possible, try to do them in the way you love to do them. Add more drive to your work. Do more of the things that you love to do and add more authenticity at work. Try to do them as much as you can in the way you love to do it in your most natural state. And that is the exact same advice that I would love to give leaders too.
Sneha Mandala [00:08:11]:
How well do you know your employees? How driven do they currently feel at work? How comfortable are they feeling in order to bring their whole selves, their authentic selves at work. And I'm not asking you to change jobs overnight. That's not what I'm asking you to do. But adding a little bit more and, more drive and authenticity to what people are already doing, that's gonna make a ton of difference. That's gonna help them get into that flow state more often, spend more time in it, and, hence, you get extraordinary business results and happy engaged employees.
Stuart Webb [00:08:46]:
Good advice. Is there a a book or a course that really sort of led you to understand, particularly, the this flow state that you're talking about?
Sneha Mandala [00:08:55]:
Absolutely. My, there are 2 gurus really that I follow in this space, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, who's considered the grandfather of flow. So he has a book called Flow. Definitely, it has all the foundations and the, neuroscience behind the flow state. I would Love to recommend this to your audience. And Mhmm. The other prominent figure in this field that I highly follow the work of is Steven Kotler. He has done amazing research and really addresses individuals who want to peak their performance while decreasing that those stress and burnout levels.
Sneha Mandala [00:09:33]:
All that I'm doing is taking, all of their research and their work and bringing it into a more corporate setting to help leaders and employees' experiences in everyday, work, really.
Stuart Webb [00:09:47]:
Brilliant. Stuart, that Webb we're we're coming towards the end of my, my 5 questions to you. And and the 5th question is the one that I often use to sort of, as as I say, Get out of jail five, and it's my opportunity to say there must be a question that you wish I had asked you by now already, and I haven't asked it. So I'm gonna ask you, What is the question that I should five asked? And then, obviously, you have to answer it because you're the only one here who can answer that question.
Sneha Mandala [00:10:12]:
Absolutely. The question I would love to be asked any day in any conversation is, what do People care about at work.
Stuart Webb [00:10:24]:
And what do people care about at work?
Sneha Mandala [00:10:28]:
You might think maybe it's their paycheck. Maybe it's connection, community. There's all sorts of different answers that, you know, you could get from different guests on your podcast for this question, but I would argue that in the basic terms, we spend Close to a 100000 hours at work in our lifetime. If you do the math of 40 hours per week on average, Close to a 100000 hours at work in a lifetime. That's equivalent to 11 years of your five. And no person It's thinking that, oh, I wish I spent these 11 years making as much money as possible or have as many connections as possible. No. What they're looking for is, I would love to enjoy and have fun In these 11 years of my life, that's what it really comes down to.
Sneha Mandala [00:11:29]:
What they really care about at their core level is For work to not feel like work, to work to be feeling like play, to work to feel like effortless.
Stuart Webb [00:11:40]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sneha Mandala [00:11:42]:
That's what people care about.
Stuart Webb [00:11:44]:
That's brilliant, and I love the way that you put it. That's brilliant. Sneha, thank you so much spending a few minutes with us and for talking us through this stuff. I love what you're saying. Listen, everyone, if you would like to get on to the mailing list And hear about the upcoming talks that we've got with people such as Neha, please go to this link. That's h t p https colonforward/forward/link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's just a simple form. You just put this email address in.
Stuart Webb [00:12:17]:
You'll get onto the newsletter list, subscribe you to the podcast. You will get to see brilliant talks like this coming up. And if you've liked this, please like and subscribe and recommend it to Your friends and family. Sneha, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciated the insights that you brought about how to get our work culture to be something more like that flow state that you so, advocate. Thank you so much.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Edmund Bradford (ep. 99)
22 feb· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Edmund?
Edmund Bradford is a successful entrepreneur known for his expertise in online gaming and business consulting. With a degree from Warwick Business School, he has built a global client base, including prestigious universities and large corporations like Airbus. His work extends far beyond traditional business schools, as he conducts Middle East chat sessions and collaborates with diverse clients all over the world. Edmund's innovative approach and ability to work with complex international organizations have earned him a reputation as a highly sought-after consultant in the gaming and business industry.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Business schools and corporations face similar challenges.
05:28 Company teaches engineers profit through transformative game.
07:29 Deliberate practice crucial for learning; failure essential.
10:36 Misuse of strategy in business can mislead.
16:11 Debate on organization's values and stakeholder returns.
18:56 Ask about sustainability cup, involvement, and organizations.
21:30 Encouraging message about sustainability and business growth.
23:44 Announcing guest and expressing gratitude for event.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
www.market2Win.academy
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
sustainability, marketing, strategies, business schools, corporations, simulation games, university, competition, change management, leadership, consulting, SWOT analysis, deliberate practice, strategic planning, sustainable business, sustainability World Cup, education, training, workshops, postmortem analysis, leading change, force for good, innovation, adaptation, strategy execution, marketing plan, academic, corporate clients, economic strategy, profit generation, business sustainability
SPEAKERS
Edmund Bradford, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee, which is what I have In front of me here, I hope my Edmund has got something similar. It's Edmund, well done. I'm delighted today to be joined by Edmund Bradford. Edmund is, a hugely experienced founder, owner, and managing director of Market two Win, which produces sales and marketing and sustainability games for university business schools and corporations. It's gonna be a fascinating conversation. Not only that, he's the author of Marketing Navigation, How to Keep Your Marketing Plan on Course To implementation success, which I think is gonna be brilliant. I'll put links to that in the show notes. He's a guest speaker at many universities, Teaching associate at Warwick University, great university in England, and a judge at the International Business Awards.
Stuart Webb [00:01:13]:
And I know he's gonna make mention of some other Judging and things that he's gonna be doing. So, Ed Edmund, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science five questions over coffee.
Edmund Bradford [00:01:24]:
Thank you, Stuart. It's a pleasure to be here with you.
Stuart Webb [00:01:27]:
I'm I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Edward, do you want to just start off by trying to Describe, you know, who it is that you're trying to reach with with not only the stuff you don't market to win, but also all of the the the the university and And business school stuff that you that you help students with.
Edmund Bradford [00:01:42]:
Yeah. Sure. It's, I'll I'll try and keep it quick because it's not easy, question to answer, actually. I just I should I should tell I should tell him an introduction. But I think we have 2 we have 2 broad, kind of ideal clients if you like. So, One is on the academic side, the education side. So those are those business schools that that you mentioned at the Stuart. University business schools, wherever they are around the world.
Edmund Bradford [00:02:05]:
So our games are online, so they don't have to be, you know, a brilliant business school Like Warwick, they could be anywhere in the world, and our clients are are all over the place. I'm doing a a Middle East chat, after you after you finish here. So, yeah, University Business School is one type of client. And then on the corporate side, yeah, I think sort of, you know, the the the big Corporations are also really good good client for us. Airbus is one of our clients as well. So that type of big, you know, complicated International organization is also a great a great client for us to to work with.
Stuart Webb [00:02:39]:
And and and the work you do with these, Challenges, these these these cups, they're they're they're ways of of helping people as well, aren't they? They're things that you you bring to To to to really sort of help challenge people to think more about what they're trying to do.
Edmund Bradford [00:02:55]:
Yeah. I think, the sort of challenges that they have, I think I think that it's interesting because the the the challenge is very similar. Whether you're a business school or a big corporation, you're both competing in a very, intense, marketplace. Business schools, even in the UK, business schools have lots of competition, especially, sort of master's level, especially MBA level. It it goes right down to to under undergraduate level as well, often competing on a on a global stage. And the same, of course, with with big corporations. We know we know they they live in highly competitive and and fast changing market. So The the kind of challenge they both share in a way is is, you know, how to get control of that and how to develop a kind of proactive strategy to to get through all that.
Edmund Bradford [00:03:44]:
So, and and my my work, if you like, whether it's, As, you know, doing the game stuff or or just standing up there and and doing a bit of training. It's often around helping them to get a a a growth strategy together That will help them. Well, they do it now if it's a corporation or help them do it in the future, if they're if they're a student at the at the university. So finding a way through that. Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:04:08]:
Yeah. And so so what is it that that others are doing which which, you know, you find these approaches particularly with with things like market When I just put your website on the, on the screen for people to see, which is which is going across market to win coffee. Well, what is it You're finding that others are doing Webb where market to win, it does differently. What what what is it they try other people have tried before with which you're trying to sort of help them to get through?
Edmund Bradford [00:04:34]:
Yeah. I think, I mean, it's a it's a very good question. The I mean, the market, even my market, you know, if if I'm talking about developing, you know, strategies, it's a very crowded market. You know, they've got the big consultancies in there as well as, you know, individuals. And actually I mean, I I started Market Twin, 18 years ago, because, one of my big corporate clients at the time, we were doing some some strategy work with them, And we're doing the usual stuff of of coming in there, running a 2 day workshop with lots of, you know, lots of engineers and and over functions in the room. We'd produce, in this case, a marketing plan on a flip chart, you know, and then the we'd walk off, and I I know damn well that they're not gonna look at it for another 12 Until we have the next workshop. So I was I was thinking this, you know, this isn't right. And we actually went into a, a 2 day session with that with that Client Webb they actually it wasn't my session.
Edmund Bradford [00:05:28]:
It was another session run by another company, and they were teaching the engineers, how to understand profit. And what really made a difference was the fact they had a game, a little a little over simple table game that was used to help them learn profit, it was really transformative. The whole experience was transformative. And so I thought about that, and it's 18 years ago, that that what we need what I needed to do if I was going to help, You know, my clients understand, you know, the importance of of getting a business strategy, particularly an external market strategy right, is that, we needed to experience it a bit. And so we Webb developed a game, about 18 years ago, and we we started to to to to play with that. And and now the idea it's obviously evolved over over many many years, and so now the idea is is that we have teams of people playing this online game Against each other in a sort of a a fictionalized world, always based on a real industry, but we kind of gained it. And they they learn, you know, all the issues that you have to deal with as a, you know, as a chief marketing officer or as a CEO in in developing a successful and competitive strategy. So I think, And I think in a nutshell, you know, what what Webb do that others don't, it's the it's the game, and it and it gives them the the the skill, Not just the knowledge from reading books or attending lectures or going to training, but because we're practicing it, it gives you the practice Of of actually applying some of those those really good ideas.
Stuart Webb [00:06:54]:
Yeah. Deliberate practice.
Edmund Bradford [00:06:55]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's all in little cycles. You know? It's not it's not let's Let's read a book for 3 months and then execute for 3 months. It's about let's do that, you know, over you know, ideally, it could be a 2 day workshop, it could be if it's a university running it over over, you know, several weeks, during a during a semester. So, yeah, that that you know, learn it, practice it, learn it, practice it continuously over different decision rounds. Hopefully, at the end of it, everybody comes out with a bit more, bit more, you know, a bit better competence in the area and and, You know, with a bit of, enjoyment of the actual process as well.
Stuart Webb [00:07:29]:
Yeah. No. I absolutely agree. I think the the the act of practice, deliberate practice, I mean, it's it's a huge element of of learning, isn't it? Too many people learn by doing, and we don't give them enough opportunity to learn in Safeway in a safe an environment where failure is actually part of the learning process. I mean, I I often say to people I work with, clients of mine, You know, babies don't learn to walk by standing there and going, right now, I need to Stuart running. They fall on their bottoms several times. And as you get up from that, you think, well, that's not the way to do it. You know, the great quote of Edison, you know, on one of his experiments, it's failed when, you know, he started scribbling notes.
Stuart Webb [00:08:08]:
His assistant said to him, well, why are you talking about that? It was a failure. He said, yes. But if I wanna do that again, I now know how to do it. And that's a great example Sort of learning by doing something and and not necessarily getting it right, but saying, well, now I know what not to do Webb I know what to do different next time. Learning by doing is a huge Yeah. And
Edmund Bradford [00:08:26]:
I I I totally agree, Stuart. And and and I I sometimes learn it. You know, even in my own experience, when from looking at others, you learn more from failures When you do few successes. And and I know I know the world is full of, you know, examples of successful companies. You know, Apple is is is always mentioned, you You know, in marketing courses. But but I find that the companies that have failed, you know, the of this world, you know, the the Something that's sort of gone from success to failure very quick. I find that very fascinating. And how did that how did that happen, and what went wrong? And we can we can learn more from that, like a postmortem.
Edmund Bradford [00:09:02]:
There's a there's a great article on the Harvard Business Review about doing a a postmortem on a on a project. And we learn more from that postmortem Than we do on actually just just, you know, exploring successful companies. Because often, you know, I come five Apple. It's got the budget. It's got the experience. It's got the skills already there that we don't five, so maybe we can learn learn from looking at looking at failures.
Stuart Webb [00:09:23]:
Yeah. I I I I love your your your your idea of the the postmortem, I often I often think that we don't spend nearly enough time looking at those postmortems and learning from them, though. Too too many times people find that sort of, you know, Do the postmortem. Stick it on the shelf in a report. Never look at it again in the same way they don't look at their strategy ever again. It's a document written. I I like sometimes sort of encouraging people to do the what I call the premortem
Edmund Bradford [00:09:47]:
Yes. Which is,
Stuart Webb [00:09:47]:
you know, think about what could possibly go wrong Yes. Right now to avoid doing that. Know? Yes. Let's let's do the postmortem upfront. This has all gone horribly wrong. Right? Now let's find a way of not doing any of that. Yes.
Edmund Bradford [00:09:57]:
That's right. And I think that was that was the the the point behind the article I mentioned, I think, as well. They did. I think they looked at I think they looked at NASA and what went wrong with the with the Challenger, shuttle. And, yeah, and and And as as you know from reading the article, the issue is often about the culture in the organization, and the fact that the culture does not allow Webb know this in the UK. We see it in the post office. We see it in the NHS. The The culture doesn't allow, you know, criticism, whistle blowing.
Edmund Bradford [00:10:23]:
Yeah? It's five, no. So that's not that's not right. You know? It doesn't fit doesn't fit our thinking. So, yeah, so often the pre mortem is that is that idea of saying, well, you know, let's assume assume things go Webb, alright, what that look five, and what would what would bad look five? Yeah?
Stuart Webb [00:10:36]:
Yeah.
Edmund Bradford [00:10:36]:
And and then and then putting that back into back into back into your thinking. So, yeah, I mean, you know, there there's lots of different corners and angles and Those are aspects of of strategy, and and and I find the thing I found and it it probably I it probably intrigued a few years ago for me, Stuart. Haven't been in the business about 30 years. It only took me a few years a few years ago that that the job with strategy is it is is it's the most misused word in business. You you can add the word strategy to anything and think you've done it. So so I can have a pricing by putting the word strategy on the end of it. I can have a promotion strategy. I can have a Facebook strategy.
Edmund Bradford [00:11:15]:
I can have a digital a social media strategy. You know? Can have anything, any Stuart, by putting the word at the end of it, and and, therefore, I think, therefore, that I'm strategic. But the, the research has shown, actually, that that, Particularly, you know, marketers are are actually not very good at this at being strategic. And and worse than that, they don't know they're not very good. That's that's the problem.
Stuart Webb [00:11:37]:
I'm not gonna comment on those of us that haven't yet managed to work out that we are not quite as good as we think we are or indeed we're actually so stupid that we can't work out How good we are or not good at something, we'll leave that to, to politicians. So so so, Edmund, is there a there is there a valuable free gift you can leave people? I mean, obviously, we can go to market to win and learn a little bit more about what you're up to. But is there anything there that you can sort Point us to, which would be a a a great way of getting value from this idea of of approaching things with with a learning head on and the practice to go with it.
Edmund Bradford [00:12:12]:
Yep. Sure. There's 2 there's 2 2 places you can go to. So first of all, yeah, the market to win .com website's really good, if I don't say so myself. Webb are we are starting well, we are starting. What's interesting there is that we are starting a new Competition, in sustainability, which we haven't really talked about yet, but in sustainability. And I think sustainability has got a fascinating impact on strategy. And and, if you wanna participate in that competition, it's called the Sustainability World Cup.
Edmund Bradford [00:12:45]:
Just go to the Market2win Webb, go to our simulations menu, and you'll see the Sustainability World Cup under the simulations menu there. So, so go there. Have a look at that. Get in contact with us if you're interested in participating because that's gonna be running, from April, over few weeks. It's a really good opportunity for for you to Learn some of these these ideas. So that's that's option number 1. And option number 2, we actually have an academy site, Webb we we we put, you know, lots of videos and tutorials, etcetera, on there. And there's a couple of good free ones on there.
Edmund Bradford [00:13:20]:
So if you if you go also to www.market to win.academy, okay, which is a different website, then you'll see some interesting, you know, videos that we've done, on on different aspects of of strategy as well. Okay? So if you sign you just sign in for five, and and some of those tools are really good. Five, for example, we've got a really good Video on on how to do a good SWOT analysis, you know, which is always done badly Webb I when I look at them. So here there's a good video there, You know, your next swatch should be a better swatch than your your last swatch after watching that that that particular video.
Stuart Webb [00:13:56]:
I've I've Stuart my link on On there, which is www.market to win.academy.
Edmund Bradford [00:14:02]:
That's it. Thank you.
Stuart Webb [00:14:03]:
And, thoroughly suggest you go and check some of that because I know I've gone and looked at that, See, looked at the Sustainability Cup, which I hope we might get an opportunity to talk about if I if I if I come to a question in a minute where I ask You sort of, ask a question I shouldn't have asked. There's an opportunity for you, Edmund. Anyway, let's not let's not leap ahead. Obviously, you've you you're an author yourself. You've written a book. Are there any other Books or courses or anything else you think, people should be using as their inspiration for practicing in a safe way their strategies before they put them
Edmund Bradford [00:14:37]:
Yeah. I think, I mean, I'll I'll recommend a few. I think on the, on the sort of marketing side, should we say, There's there's this one, alright, which is which is this sort of bible. Yeah. That's Mark The Marketing Plans book. Okay. So that's by Professor Malcolm McDonald And Hugh Wilson. Alright.
Edmund Bradford [00:14:56]:
So that's that's a really good book in terms of how to write a marketing plan, a strategic marketing plan. That's the one that we mentioned at the Stuart, my one, if I if I can plug it on the execution side. Yeah. So that's how to execute your plan. So those 2 books together, Yeah. It's all about, you know, how to how to think about strategy, write it in a good plan, and and execute it.
Stuart Webb [00:15:17]:
And then do it.
Edmund Bradford [00:15:18]:
And do it. Yeah. And then the final one I'm gonna I'm gonna mention in terms of sort of the strategy stuff, which is which is more on the sustainability side. And, this is one that that that you can tell because I've got lots of, Post it notes in there. So Webb well read. That one's brilliant. I mean, that's about, you know, it's called Reimagine Capitalism, How Business Can Save the World, And it's it's trying to get to that sweet spot, which which we do in the the new Sustain to Win Simulation, which is about, you know, how do we Have a company that that, yeah, generates profits for shareholders, but is also a force for good in the world. Yeah.
Edmund Bradford [00:15:57]:
Very good. Rebecca Rebecca Henderson, professor Henderson, She's done a really good job of of of of talking about how that that can can be done. So those you know, if you if you wanna you know, 3 recommendations there, That that's that's those are really good books.
Stuart Webb [00:16:11]:
Obviously, we could spend the the the next 20 years debating how to make your your your You your organization, both a force for good and yet still return value to stakeholders. But let's, let's gloss over that, Before we get too deep in it, because I think that is a fascinating subject. I know it's a subject of many MBA theses in the past, some of which I'm sure you've been subjected to unless you've, unless you've managed to find your way out of that. So let's let's get on to our 4th question before we we get too deep, and I'd five to Spend more time talking about that one. But but is there a is there a a a a a question I haven't yet asked you? Is there something I haven't yet Sort of come to you and sort of said this is this is the killer question. If I was to give you the opportunity to what ask what that killer question was it, what would it be? And then, obviously, once you've asked it, you will be the only person that we could possibly turn to to answer it for.
Edmund Bradford [00:17:04]:
Yeah. I think I think the the question is what's the what's the hidden skill that you need to be a great leader, I would say. Yeah? For anyone that wants to be a great leader or whatever age you are. And I and I would say and I've been through all this myself, And and I and I was just very, very lucky in my early career, but it's catch with me all all through my life is is change. Yeah? Mhmm. If you whatever function you're in, whether it's finance, Law, you know, whatever you're doing, basically. Alright? Marketing, sustainability, whatever it is. If you wanna be successful in life, you have to Drive through change.
Edmund Bradford [00:17:37]:
And that doesn't mean to say that you need to be, you know, somebody upfront, an Elon Musk or Steve Jobs, anything like that. You know, Richard Branson, a famous A famous face. You you can lead change, as we used to call it in in my old days. You can lead from behind. Yeah? So the quiet you'd be do it quietly. So that is a that's a whole science, Stuart, of of of change. And, whatever you're doing, I think, you know, There's you're never too late to start reading up on that on that particular subject. My final book, nothing to do with me.
Edmund Bradford [00:18:08]:
Final book, I would say, you know, a good place to start is that That man there, John P. Kotter. That I probably don't have his latest book. That's probably an older version. But Leading Change by there we go. Try to get it on the slide. Leading Change by, on the screen, by John P. Coffee.
Edmund Bradford [00:18:21]:
Just go to his website. Go look up Leading Change, John P. Cotter. I think it's, kotter.com or something? But, he's got some really good principles of how to how to lead change. And, You know, everything you do, whether it's in your business life, personal life, whether it's social life, whether you're working in a sports club, you know, Whatever you're doing, it's about it's about, you know, changing things, processes, people, behaviors, organizations. Yeah. And that That is, the that's something everybody needs to understand.
Stuart Webb [00:18:56]:
Edmund, we've we've reached the end of the 5 questions have a copy, but But one thing I'm burning to ask you about is so I'm gonna deviate from my from my normal 5 questions gonna ask you a 6th question. Can you please give us a little more detail on what the sustainability cup is? Just just once again, tell us Webb do we find details, what it is you're looking for in terms of, of people sort of getting involved in that, and then I'll I'll promise I'll let you go, before I start then down the the the the path of how do we make organizations, in this capitalist world be both a force for good and force for change.
Edmund Bradford [00:19:28]:
Yeah. And that's that that that subject, by the way, Stuart, is is is is one that is has a lot of research. More research is needed, and and, you know, there's a lot of discussion about it. Not that's not definitely a closed subject. Yeah. So the the Sustainability World Cup is a is a is a new competition that we're putting together. It uses our new Sustain two Win simulation. So it's game game based game based learning.
Edmund Bradford [00:19:53]:
And, what we're looking for is for teams just like the World Cup. We're looking for teams from around the world To participate in in the World Cup, we're gonna have some nice awards handed out at the end. We've got a five bunch of judges, Stuart lined up, I believe.
Stuart Webb [00:20:11]:
Good. I figured that's right. I figured some of them are excellent.
Edmund Bradford [00:20:14]:
Yeah. Some of them might some Some of their excellent judges. We've got a fantastic set of judges to to to to judge it, and it's it's really it's 2 thing. It's a course and a competition. So, it's it's about playing the game. And just like, you know, just like anyone that plays our games, they they they learn from playing the game, but also so that's a serious side. Alright. I was in that's that's the serious five.
Edmund Bradford [00:20:36]:
But the fun the fun bit is is that because it's a game, There's there's some nice nice awards at the end. And, you know, there's some some great you know, how good it would be, wouldn't it, if if if someone on this call Signed up to play the game and ended up being our sort of sustainability leader, sustainability champion of 2024. I mean, what what a great title to have on their their CV. So, yeah, so a chance to practice some of the ideas, you know, that that that we've been talking about today in a safe environment. Yeah. And to and to to get there, Yeah. Just go to the market2win.com Webb, www.marketwin.com. Not the academy one, so that's on the coffee one.
Edmund Bradford [00:21:13]:
And, look for the simulations menu along the top, and you you see on the drop down, it will say the Sustainability World Cup. Okay. And go there and, sign up or or just drop me a message, and we'll be delighted to send you more information.
Stuart Webb [00:21:30]:
Edwin, I'm looking forward enormously to seeing what comes out of that. I know there's gonna be a sort of a a bit of a social media push, over the next few, few weeks to really sort of launch this. I think it's great initiative. I mean, it's brilliant not only for people in universities, schoolchildren, but also, you know, those who are Currently starting out in business to start to get a team around them to think about these challenges and to really push forward with How do you make your business sustainable? Not only sustainable for an environmental and, a a positive impact upon the world, But how do you make it sustainable so that in years to come, it's not some, unchanged, unwill unwanted commercial organization, But it's something that learns to adapt, change, generate ideas, innovate, and and continue. I mean, the the The the the fact that we don't have enough organizations that have been surviving 3, 4, or 500 years because they have learned to adapt and change and be adaptable, sometimes sometimes surprises me because we we do tend to coffee too short term. So I really hope that people grasp hold of the Sustainability World Cup, Look at it as an opportunity to start rethinking how to make the organization both a force for good in their community, in with their stakeholders, as well as continue to be profitable for years to come. Edwin, I think it's been a brilliant conversation. Thank you so much for spending a few minutes.
Stuart Webb [00:22:58]:
I know you are so busy. You are gonna rush off now And be all over the rest of the world trying to do the same thing.
Edmund Bradford [00:23:04]:
Yeah. I'm putting into actually, yeah, putting into action, Stuart. Yeah. Putting into action with the classic I love that.
Stuart Webb [00:23:08]:
I love that.
Edmund Bradford [00:23:08]:
The classic dudes. Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:23:10]:
Thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. I I really appreciate it. And, listen, just 1 last comment. If you would like to join the newsletter Get information about some of the brilliant people we have. We had a comment about, about the book that Edmund represent suggested. So if you wanna get on, make comments, ask questions of the guest, go to this address, which is, link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk Forward slash newsletter. That's link .completes.co.ukforward/newsletter. You will get, an email from me.
Stuart Webb [00:23:44]:
Very simple. Just sort of announcing what's going on, who the guest is gonna be. So you get the opportunity to join, live on LinkedIn and show that, show that you get regrets like this. I'm just gonna show, Annie Dunning It's just coffee to you. It's always such an education to work with you, Ed, at the University of Portsmouth. So you're you're making your way all the way Warwick University to Portsmouth University in the blink of an eye. Brilliantly done, Ed. Thank you, Annie.
Edmund Bradford [00:24:10]:
That's very nice. Nice to meet you, Annie.
Stuart Webb [00:24:12]:
Coming coming on and letting us know that Ed is a a decent chap, to work with as he appears. And with that, Ed, I'm gonna let you go. Thank you so much spending a few minutes with us. I'm just gonna play the outro, and, I look forward to speaking to you again very soon.
Edmund Bradford [00:24:26]:
My pleasure.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Alfred Poor (ep. 98)
8 feb· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Alfred?
Alfred Poor is a leading expert on the future of work and the impact of technology on business meetings. He is known for his research and insights on the increasing prevalence of online meetings, citing a report by the Gartner Group that predicted 75% of all business meetings would be held online. He emphasizes the convenience and accessibility of video meetings, particularly in the context of the pandemic. Alfred is dedicated to helping businesses adapt to these changes and thrive in the new work landscape.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Alfred Poor, health tech expert, discusses presentation capabilities.
04:16 Optimize camera angle and eye contact.
10:09 Project evolved to 75% solution for presentations.
12:00 Supporting new tech founders in pitching online.
14:35 Excited to be part of wonderful interviews.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
alfredpoor.com/video-meeting-blueprint
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/Np8ys9oIiRg?feature=share
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter
Find out more about being a guest at : link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/beaguest
Subscribe to the podcast at https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/podcast
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————————————————————————————————————————————-
Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Alfred Poor, Health tech expert, Keynote speaker, 75% solution, Video meeting world, Technology, Presentation capabilities, Gartner Group, Online business meetings, Pandemic, Video meetings, Impressions, CEO, Executives, Zoom calls, Communication, Body language, Camera angle, Engaging, Intentional, Virtual events, Speaker skills, Presentations, Virtual presentations, Incremental improvements, Chief Technology Officers, Founders, Funding sources, Technology sectors, Startups, Passion.
SPEAKERS
Alfred Poor, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:22]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, Five questions over coffee. I'm delighted to have a returning guest this afternoon, Alfred Port. Alfred is a health tech expert, a keynote speaker. He has So many talents. It's gonna be impossible to list them all today. So what we're gonna do is we're just going to allow him to explain His, his his his HealthBeat and his some his 75% solution, which is the solution he has got for those people who are currently Having to adapt to the video meeting world and how you can make best use of your technology to prove your presentation capabilities. So, Alfred, welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science five Questions Over Coffee.
Alfred Poor [00:01:07]:
Cheers to you. I'm so glad to be back.
Stuart Webb [00:01:11]:
I've got a I've got water in front of me at the moment because I probably have There's water
Alfred Poor [00:01:16]:
in here, but you can't tell.
Stuart Webb [00:01:19]:
Excellent. Alfred, I mean, you you I I introduced you there with the the 75 solution. Who who is the the solution aimed at? Who are you trying to help with this solution?
Alfred Poor [00:01:29]:
So the the the the key to that quest answer to that question is in the in the name. The 75% solution actually comes from a report by the Gartner Group. They came out with a report that predicted that for this year, 75% of all business meetings are going to be held online. That's internal and external. That's talking to investors, potential partners, customers, you know, staff, teams, management, whatever. And my whole point is that the pandemic gave us video meetings as a as a target of opportunity. It was easy to do. They're convenient, and and they don't take a lot of technical skill.
Alfred Poor [00:02:11]:
You just open up your laptop and have at it. My problem is that people aren't being intentional about how they present themselves in those settings. And if you're gonna be spending 75% of your meetings online, why wouldn't you want to make the most of that time? You're that's a huge investment of your time and money for your company. Why wouldn't you wanna maximize the benefit?
Stuart Webb [00:02:37]:
Brilliant question. And, you know, I look at so many people who are currently taking those. I I spoke to 1 executive who, Being being female had gone out and equipped herself with an entirely new wardrobe in order to make sure that she was presenting her best self on video, something which I have never considered myself. So, you know, what do you find in the people that are making those mistakes who who who don't try to maximize their their their best time and their best, best view when it comes to video meetings.
Alfred Poor [00:03:08]:
I I for me, the keyword is intention. Yeah. I don't think they're doing it intentionally, and that's the whole point. They're not intentional about the impression they make.
Stuart Webb [00:03:18]:
No. It's it's they're not talking
Alfred Poor [00:03:20]:
to people. Is We've all met CEOs and and executives and founders who you bring them into a boardroom for a presentation and they're just amazing. You put them up on stage and they just kill it. You know? Just audiences in their hand. You put them on a Zoom call, and it looks like they've joined witness protection. You know? They're just I don't think that they stop and think about whether or not what's coming through actually represents their brand, their company, Their their professional and personal image, and it's so easy to do it better. And Yeah. I would argue that when you do do it better, people notice.
Stuart Webb [00:04:02]:
Yeah. So it's that, It's that laptop on the desk with the view sort of strangely up the up the face, isn't it? It's the it's the poor, like yeah. That one. The that's the poor view.
Alfred Poor [00:04:16]:
I mean, you know, I I've yet to find anybody where the up and nose looking at the ceiling camera angle is is flattering. You know, when you look like this, it's more engaging. It's you know, people will be able to pay more attention to you and be making contact with him, you know, eye contact. There's a whole lot of pieces that go into it. But, you know, basically, You need to get your camera up so it's about eye level. You need to look at the camera, and you need to show more. You don't wanna just be this disembodied head because then you don't get the hand motions. You don't get the the body language.
Alfred Poor [00:04:54]:
You know, there's a whole lot missing in your communication, which which we count on.
Stuart Webb [00:04:59]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I'll find I and and and that's another great tip that you just sort of gave us there with the With old camera, isn't it? Because, you know, I'm now currently looking at you. The camera is actually above my screen. I have to consciously shift my gaze to a camera and not stare at the screen because otherwise, it looks as if I'm looking down. And it's a ridiculous it it just doesn't look right, does it? But If
Alfred Poor [00:05:24]:
somebody if you were in a conversation with somebody at an event or a meeting or whatever, and they were looking down like that and not at you, what would you think?
Stuart Webb [00:05:32]:
Yeah.
Alfred Poor [00:05:33]:
Yeah. Are they are they, you know, withdrawn or, you know, total paralyzed by by Introversion. I mean, you know, what what's going on with them? Why why aren't they looking at me? Now here's a if you want a quick, Almost no cost tip. To solve that, go to the your local store, gift shop, or whatever and get a pair of those little googly eyes that you can, you can stick onto anything, Stuart stick them up next to your camera. It'll give you eyes to look at and it'll make it much easier for you to to focus on the camera.
Stuart Webb [00:06:11]:
Great tip. I love it. Now I know you've got a you've got a valuable free offer it, I'm gonna just display this on the screen now. Tell us, what's on your valuable free offer? What is this thing that you can want Webb to do do with the with our video meetings?
Alfred Poor [00:06:24]:
So I tried to go through and create as comprehensive a list of the different factors that go into how to be more engaging, more influential, in your online meetings and presentations, and I laid them all out in what I call my video blueprint. So if you can go through and check all the boxes in that video blueprint, you're gonna end up having a much better presentation. You're gonna make a much better impression in in the course of it. This is this is my gift to your listeners.
Stuart Webb [00:06:56]:
So do you wanna just, read out what it says, on on the on the ticket going across the bottom of the screen so that you've got it for those people who are listening back and that haven't at the moment
Alfred Poor [00:07:07]:
See Alright. Just take us through
Stuart Webb [00:07:08]:
what we've got here. It's alphreypore.com
Alfred Poor [00:07:10]:
Yep.
Stuart Webb [00:07:11]:
Forward slash.
Alfred Poor [00:07:12]:
Alfred pore alphreypore.com/ video meeting blueprint. So it's video meeting.blueprint not dash blueprint. And alphore.com, nice and easy to remember that part.
Stuart Webb [00:07:27]:
Yeah. I I encourage you to go see that, and I will put this in the notes. It's alphore.com / video meeting blueprint. Dashes in between the the gaps where I pause there. So so go down go download. What what is this is just a series of tips and tricks that you can use that that ensures that you you get the very best out the 75% of the meetings you're currently gonna be having online
Alfred Poor [00:07:51]:
Right. I actually, I would say it's more A checklist for you to be intentional about.
Stuart Webb [00:07:59]:
Yeah. Okay.
Alfred Poor [00:07:59]:
You don't know what you don't know? So This gives you a list of things, oh, I never thought about. You know, should I be wearing stripes when I'm, you know, you know, finely striped clothes when I'm on camera? Probably not. But, you know, have you thought about what you're wearing? A lot of people just go on with what whatever they wear. When you well, first of all, this is my brand. So, but whenever you see me on on online on, you know, in a video setting, it's gonna be solid colors. It's gonna be In the blues and the grays for me, that's all by design. It's not it's not by accident. That's it's intentional.
Stuart Webb [00:08:38]:
I think that's a brilliant that's a great word you keep coming back to. That's the word intentional. You have to be intentional with these things, don't you? Barbara, was there a was it was was it this Gartner course, Gartner report, I mean, or anything else which really highlighted to you the importance of sort of Taking this step because I know that you're a you're a you're a really experienced speaker. Is is the world of speaking currently really being changed I I for this world.
Alfred Poor [00:09:04]:
Absolutely. I mean, this had its genesis years years ago. I've been doing virtual for probably 9 years now. I've done, you know, been a speaker at online conferences. I've produced my own online webinars and other events. I've produced, you know, online series of Presentations by other speakers. I actually produced a series of online trade shows about, for consumer electronics companies. So, and this was all pre pandemic, so, you know, I didn't jump to this because of the pandemic.
Alfred Poor [00:09:42]:
I already had these skills in my in in my kit bag, as you would. But so when the pandemic hit, I saw these other speakers saying, you know, all my on-site Gigs have been canceled. So I started doing workshops for them, showing them some of the key points about what you need to do to trans Trans transition between online, you know, on-site to online presentations.
Stuart Webb [00:10:08]:
Yep.
Alfred Poor [00:10:09]:
Yep. In doing that, it was very very well received, but in doing that, I realized I had a ton more than would fit in a 45 minute presentation. And So the project went through a number of different iterations and now exists as this 75% solution in which is intended to give found give executives and and teams the skills they need Starting wherever they they happen to be with whatever budget and skills and knowledge they have, what they can do to to make a better impression. I I follow what I call my, principle of the three i's for making improvements. Webb can make improvements, and this is beyond just presentations, but it Stuart that's how I came up with it, you want to make, improvements that are incremental. Don't try to do everything at once. Webb wanna make them intentional. There's the intentional again.
Alfred Poor [00:11:04]:
Don't just accept the default settings. And you wanna make them impactful. You wanna choose the ones that are gonna have the biggest impact. And so when I work with a client, I've helped them. It's not a course. It's not some series of things that they have to work through. I work with them custom and find the one thing that's gonna make the biggest difference for them, and we get that working. And then I find the next thing and the next thing and so forth.
Alfred Poor [00:11:29]:
And so it's continuous improvement and just gets better and better.
Stuart Webb [00:11:33]:
I love it. Alfred, I've I've asked you questions, and, you've answered them, but there must be 1 question that you're currently thinking. I wish you'd get around to asking because that's one that really sort of knows it. So what's the question that you're wishing I could ask? And, and then, obviously, asked the question you need to answer.
Alfred Poor [00:11:50]:
Well, I think it is, where's the passion come from for this project.
Stuart Webb [00:11:57]:
I like the question. I love the question.
Alfred Poor [00:12:00]:
And and for me, I've been working doing a lot of work with Stuart ups Because having worked with technology for as long as I have, I've been very excited to see the New companies coming along, the founders with their great ideas and how they wanna solve big problems with them. And the problem is that most of these founders are now having to make their pitches online, And this is life or death for their for their project. If they don't get the funding, and right now, funding is very tough for a lot of technology sectors. If they don't get the funding, that's you know, that could be the end of the dream. And so One of one of the motives behind the the 75% solution is to include founders in this, the ones who are just getting started. Help them think about the things that they hadn't thought about and so that they can be more effective when they're talking to funding sources because, you know, again, for them, it matters the most.
Stuart Webb [00:13:07]:
I love that. I love that. Alfred, as ever, it is brilliant to, to hear your views on things. You have some absolute gems of thoughts, And I love the fact that you bring passion to this, and you bring the the passion to help founders, people who who really have got to nail this and get it right in order to be able to get their company off the ground. I love I love the fact that you do that. I'm just gonna make an appeal at this point. If you are listening to this on replay or if you want Stuart, to To join the LinkedIn lines that we do on a regular basis, please, would you go to this, this link, which is a link .thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. If you go to that URL, you will find a form that you can fill out.
Stuart Webb [00:13:55]:
Get you onto the newsletter list, and then we can keep you informed of who's coming up on these, weekly, Meetings and join and see the brilliant ideas that come through. There are so many brilliant ideas. Please come on. Please join that newsletter list and see brilliant people like Alfred Poor. And I encourage you, go to Alfred Poor's, website, afripoor.com forward slash video meeting blueprint. Download that blueprint, and make sure that you get a hold of his intentional things that you need to think about for your video meetings in the future. Alfred, I hope that was good, as good a summary as you're gonna get from anybody.
Alfred Poor [00:14:35]:
The best. The best. And I I just wanna underscore to to the audience that, you know, this is your Interviews are just great. You somehow managed to bring wonderful people and I'm actually honored to be part of that, and actually having to having get the opportunity to do it more than once. So, you know
Stuart Webb [00:14:56]:
You're very kind. You're very kind. I look forward to the next time we meet on a video call and, and and chat. But for now, everyone, thank you very much for joining us. I look forward to seeing you again next Time on, It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions of a coffee. you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Jacqueline Conway (ep. 97)
25 jan· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Jacqueline?
Jacqeline Conway is a successful marketing strategist who understands the struggle of feeling stuck in a professional rut. After her own experience of hitting a plateau in her career, she decided to use her knowledge and expertise to help others in similar situations with Conway Consulting. Through seminars and events, they empower individuals to set new goals and find their direction again. Jacqeline's passion for guiding others through professional challenges has made her a trusted mentor in the business community.
Key Takeaways
00:00 University, career, plateau, need direction, success, stuck.
03:54 Many seek mentorship, achieve impressive business success.
09:37 Transitioned from marketer to coaching business while pregnant.
11:33 Key to success is exceptional service for clients.
14:55 Business success is about serving your customers.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
https://conway.consulting/manifestwithconway
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/dhacjffgiG4
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter
Find out more about being a guest at : link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/beaguest
Subscribe to the podcast at https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/podcast
Help us get this podcast in front of as many people as possible. Leave a nice five-star review at apple podcasts : https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/apple-podcasts and on YouTube : https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/Itsnotrocketscienceatyt!
Here's how you can bring your business to THE next level:
If you are a business owner currently turning over £/$10K - £/$50K per month and want to grow to £/$100K - £/$500k per month download my free resource on everything you need to grow your business on a single page :
It's a detailed breakdown of how you can grow your business to 7-figures in a smart and sustainable way
————————————————————————————————————————————-
Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software (and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Conway Consulting, Jacqueline Conway, brand strategist, marketing, music marketing, fashion marketing, search signature marketing, mentorship company, coaching, consulting, entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, real estate, finance, insurance, professional services, plateau, goallessness, seminars, events, inspiration, personal development, manifest, masterpiece, sprint goal, workbook, challenge, service, entrepreneurship, inverted energy, mentorships.
SPEAKERS
Jacqueline Conway, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:20]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science five questions Over coffee. I'm delighted today, not only to have my coffee in front of me with, my bears on them, which are my my favorite bears in the world, But also to have Jacqueline Conway with me who is a marketer and brand strategist with Conway Consulting. She has a root a background in music and fashion marketing and has been working with comp clients through Coffee with their one day one sale a day club, bringing clients through their search signature marketing framework called The Brand Project. So, Jacqueline, Absolutely delighted to be here with you, and, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us this morning.
Jacqeline Conway [00:01:06]:
Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat about, business and helping people and all the things. So it's Really? Great day to start chatting.
Stuart Webb [00:01:15]:
So, let's start with, let's start with what you do with with Conway. What what is what is who is it you're trying to help, and and and what's the problem they've got that you're trying to help them to overcome?
Jacqeline Conway [00:01:25]:
Sure. Sure. Well, do you mind if I set the table first and just explain what Conway is? Because I'm sure it's a little vague at this point for everyone. So Call Me Consulting is a elite mentorship company. It's, coaching, consulting, events. We do lots of different things, but Webb, support clients through helping them achieve their goals. And my husband, Dave, is the kind of I don't know. We call him the what do we call him? There's a really good slang that my team member calls him.
Jacqeline Conway [00:01:52]:
He's the show that makes the dough, so to speak. So he's the speaker. He's the coach. And then I, you know, help lead all the operations and marketing and product endeavors behind the scenes. So it's kinda like this, like, unification of us together. Like, both of us kinda bring our expertise, to the table to, you know, to create a really amazing experience for our clients.
Stuart Webb [00:02:13]:
And and who are those clients? What what what's the problem you're helping solve?
Jacqeline Conway [00:02:16]:
Sure. Sure. So our clients that we work with are typically already in business. So they're either entrepreneurs. They're potentially sometimes coaches or consultants. Lots of times, there's people working in the real estate real estate industry or finance or insurance, different kind of professional services like that. And the issue is that they're stuck. So typically, what will happen in life is, you know, you You go to high school.
Jacqeline Conway [00:02:40]:
You maybe go to university. You get a pro you get a job. You start working in your career, and it's almost like you start to plateau sometimes. It's like You need that goal or that, like, north star to direct you. And where people sometimes fall down is that they kinda knock down all these big goals and then they Start going and earning money income, have Stuart a family maybe, and then they suddenly Stuart of hit this roadblock where they're, like, not growing in the same way that they were before. And so I find when we run our seminars and our events, that's a common thread. It's something we hear a lot. It's like I've I've got some success under my belt, But I'm just stuck.
Jacqeline Conway [00:03:14]:
I'm not feeling inspired anymore. I've lost a bit of motivation. I need I need something to sort of, like, fuel my My mind and get me get me thinking differently, open up different ideas for myself. That's really common. So, the biggest challenge is really, Like, as we say, Coffee, goallessness. Because if we don't have this, like, really exciting, direction that we're moving toward, we don't We don't have that motivation and inspiration to keep going.
Stuart Webb [00:03:43]:
And and and what are the the the the the the clients you work with? What five they tried Before the hasn't quite worked Yeah. The decision about what you're doing with them in Conway.
Jacqeline Conway [00:03:54]:
Yep. Good question. I would say, Like, lots of them have done over programs or mentorships, like maybe they've done some mindsets, you know, work before. Maybe they've read a lot of books or they've gone to seminars. And so it's not that they're not trying to kind of solve this problem, to, like, really fall in love with a goal or to really get clear on their purpose and Some of the deeper understandings about life for themselves, they are doing these things, but sometimes it just the penny hasn't dropped yet. And suddenly they come into our ecosystem, into our sphere, and they hear information in a whole new way, and suddenly it starts to land. And Truly, you know, not to brag, we do get some really amazing results coming out of our client base. Five, we've seen people come in that are making, you know, maybe 8,000, $10,000 a month in their business.
Jacqeline Conway [00:04:35]:
And Today, they're over half $1,000,000 a month. That's one client that's been with us for about 3 years. We've got somebody that had our a successful finance, Webb management firm and started working with Dave and did a one day seminar and made over 350,000 in a single seminar. You know, we're seeing these, like, this explosive growth, and those results are are common. Like, there's many stories I could share about this transformation. And I think it's just The delivery mechanism of how we present the material. So if you are trying to, like, improve improve your life, improve your business, Coffee that sense of, like, ownership and growth in yourself and you're typically going after that. Coming into Conway seems to just sort of speed that up.
Stuart Webb [00:05:18]:
That's brilliant. That's absolutely brilliant. And I know, you have got a, an offer which would help people to understand a little bit about So which I'm gonna put on screen now. Webb, Stuart talk to us about what this is, in terms of, a quiz, I understand.
Jacqeline Conway [00:05:35]:
Well, it's a 21 day challenge, and it's called well, we have manifest with Conway. It's a 21 day manifestation challenge. And the whole thing is predicated around going after what I what we like to call like a sprint goal. So for the next 21 days, you set, you know, like a challenge for yourself, and it's over personal experience. You don't have to share it with anybody and you choose it yourself. It could be I wanna land, you know, 10 clients in the next 21 days. It could be I wanna, like, Reboot my personal brand in the next 21 days. I want to revolutionize my health.
Jacqeline Conway [00:06:04]:
I mean, you could you could do whatever you want with it. And, so you select that. There's a beautiful workbook that'll help you do that. It has prompts. It helps you work through what that goal is gonna be for yourself. And again, it's not daunting. It's just 21 days. That's it.
Jacqeline Conway [00:06:16]:
And then we'll email you every single day for those 21 days to keep you accountable, remind you to to do the, you know, the challenge work that's included in the workbook. And it's just our gift to help people start to to get that goal and start to feel maybe some of that inspiration that they might be missing right now.
Stuart Webb [00:06:32]:
Sounds, yeah, sounds like something we should avoid doing, actually, to be honest. And, maybe maybe we'll we'll try and encourage a few more people to get on to the to the to the website and, and pick up, that challenge to try and push push through through that. And it sounds like you get some really great results.
Jacqeline Conway [00:06:49]:
That's right. Great results with this challenge. Even, you know, people that send us, you know, their their wins. Someone said that they had, like, Dropped, like, weight. Some like, some people use it for weight loss. Someone was saying that they landed x number of clients, even internally in our team, we used it for a particular launch as a team. We were five, let's use the 21 day sprint model to, like, help us, like, do this launch and then we had, like, the best results we ever had. Because what it does is it just starts to focus your mind to and then To the exclusion of noise.
Jacqeline Conway [00:07:23]:
You know? It's just like, okay, I'm really gonna go all in on this 21 day sprint for myself. And I'm gonna ignore any other Ideas that Five that are trying to pull at me right now. Because as you know, like, we can get distracted. Our focus can get pulled around. Right? And so what this does is it really helps you what we like to say, it's like five extra focus. It's like it helps you just 0 in on this, like, one thing that you really wanna accomplish and achieve, And it just takes all this powerful energy in your mind and focuses it. So that's what it'll help people do.
Stuart Webb [00:07:52]:
Love it. I love it. I encourage people to get on to conway.consulting, forward slash manifest with Coffee, and have a look at that challenge. Is there is there a a a book or program that sort of began to spark your interest in how to help people do this? Was there something which the original, original thing that that got you to this, I think you'd like to share with the audience.
Jacqeline Conway [00:08:15]:
Yeah. Sure. Well, you know, Dave and I have an interesting story. So, like, I used to work in music marketing. Dave used to actually be a carpenter. So we had very different five, about 6 years ago. And Dave was has always been interested in personal development and Read a lot of, like, Napoleon Hill's work and Earl Nightingale's, and Bob Proctor was his, like, all time favorite. And he Said to me in 2017, he's like, you need to come to we need to go to the seminar Webb in LA with Bob.
Jacqeline Conway [00:08:43]:
And me being sort of five the burnt out, tired mom, I was just five, like, you can go to the seminar. I'll come with you, but I'm just gonna go to the beach. You enjoy it, and then, like, we'll hang out at night. He's like, no. No. No. No. That's not how this works.
Jacqeline Conway [00:08:55]:
Like, We go to this together. And I was like, okay. Because I've always, you know, I've always been supportive. So we went to the seminar together with Bob, and we kinda mark that Seminar is, like, really the the date when our life really transformed. So that was the date when Dave decided to become coach, And I remember leaving that event and being just sort of, like, observant of my life at that point. It was almost like I was like, yeah. Why am I doing the things I'm doing? Why am I why am I, thinking I've got everything figured out when I Clearly don't. You know? It it was a very humbling experience, and it was also just, this opportunity to zoom out and really look at my life.
Jacqeline Conway [00:09:37]:
So one day we had the decision to become a coach, I'm a bit an event marketer, and so I said, well, I'll help you. I'll help you with your business. And here I am, you know, years later kind of running the company, but, I was like, I'll help you run, you know, seminars and workshops and, you know, I know that world. You know, I've been in events marketing world for over. So I I'll help you with that. And, you know, he was still working as a carpenter, and then we ran the seminar together. It was actually This the last day of my my very last day of my previous job was the 1st day of was the day of our 1st seminar, which is kind of poetic in a way. And, it was because I was pregnant.
Jacqeline Conway [00:10:12]:
I was going on maternity leave. So that was, like, my last day of work and that was our 1st seminar. And remember Dave tells the story really funny, but he's like, I installed a kitchen that day as a carpenter and I made $400. And then that night, I went and did a personal development talk, And I made $20,000. And, like, we sold 4 clients for $5,000, and that was, like, our first event. And so it was kinda like, wow. You know, there's A real opportunity here not only to help and serve people, but to earn the income that we want and to, you know, put all these amazing skills we have to work as well. So that was our very first event, Webb.
Jacqeline Conway [00:10:47]:
And now flash forward to today and, you know, we work with hundreds of clients. We've served thousands of people. We produce mastermind events all over North America called freedom mastermind and vision maker, and we do these amazing events for people. And, it all started because somebody asked us to just dream, which is really, really cool. So that's why we tell people to do the same thing. Just Start to think, start to dream again because you can let yourself go free for a little while and suddenly, like, a lot of magic can start to pour in.
Stuart Webb [00:11:18]:
I love the story. There must be a question at the moment that you're wondering why I haven't asked you. So so my 5th question to you is is what's the question I should by now have asked you? And, obviously, once you worked out what that question is, you really I'd really love you to answer it for.
Jacqeline Conway [00:11:33]:
Sure. Sure. I would say the question, An important question that any person can ask themselves in business is, well, what's the key to my success? Ask them to themselves, like, who I coffee is the key to my success. And if I was to ask myself that question, what has been the key to our success thus far and what I think will continue to be the key to our success is service. Always focusing on the service of others, helping them gain the knowledge and understanding of, What's what's holding them back? Five, that when I mentioned goallessness being one of the main things that holds people back a lot of the time. And I know that when we lean into this idea of providing exceptional service, excellence in service, just everything falls into place because It's really not about me or the founder. It's always about the clients. It's all about the people.
Jacqeline Conway [00:12:23]:
So we just always keep top of mind What is the best thing for our clients? What's the best experience we can possibly create? How can we surprise and delight people all the time? How can we make them feel seen and heard and appreciated and just put as much energy and effort into into them as we can. So that's what I feel are key to success is, but I think everyone should ask themselves that question.
Stuart Webb [00:12:46]:
Hi. It's a brilliant question to ask. Actually, I really love the idea of asking that question. What is this? And and so many businesses, I think, fail To do that, I I I, I've I've worked with a with a couple of business owners recently, and the first question I asked is, so So what is it that you do which is which is different to others? Why are you in the business? And when they don't give you an answer, you know that Somehow, there's not gonna be the sort of legs to really drive through to some scale, is it? Because people, if they don't have that passion, if they're not keen, if they don't really recognize What they're gonna do to sort of change the five of other people and how they're there to serve them. They can never ever make a success of what they're trying to do.
Jacqeline Conway [00:13:27]:
That's right. Well, a lot of problem a big problem in entrepreneurship is what we like to describe as, like, inverted energy, where people worry too much about themselves And they don't just release their passion and their and their service into the market because if you're struggling with something, if you're having if you're if you're, Five doubting or if you're, like, feeling fearful about I'm not making enough money this month, I'm not serving or I'm not the money's not coming in or something like that. That just means that you're just thinking about yourself. And if you were to go out and just start to serve others and release energy out into the market, the money will come in. It's just just how it works. You deliver service. The money comes in. Is it always to the direct five that you serve in? Not always.
Jacqeline Conway [00:14:08]:
That's always been our experience. Sometimes, honestly, this is kinda nuts, but We'll do workshops for thousands of people, and not very many people will sign up for mentorships. And then suddenly, 5 clients will just come out of the woodwork, Hi, elite clients, and we're like, well, this is very interesting. I mean, that's kind of funny, isn't it? And so We always look at those situations and we always analyze them and we're like, well, how come this didn't necessarily attract the people, but they still came anyway? So you always have to just look at Are you releasing energy? Are you just in service of people? Are you are you, inverting your energy? Or, you know, anytime we have fear, doubt, worry, That just means we've just entered into a state of almost five selfishness. And it's like, well, no. Just get out there and help somebody, and suddenly the problem will likely just go away.
Stuart Webb [00:14:55]:
Well, you hear it heard it here. You know, if you're not in business, to help others, if you're not thinking of your clients first, If you're not thinking what it is you're there to do to serve your customer, you are burning out, and, you need To rethink why you're in business, and I love that message. Jacqueline, I really I really love the energy you've given off today and the way that you put that. I think it's it's fantastic. Thank you so much for just spending a few minutes with us today talking about that. I am just gonna invite people. If, if there is, If you wanna get an email from me on a Monday, it goes out on Monday telling you who's coming up on the podcast on Tuesday so that you can prepare to To watch these brilliant show and catch up with past issues, please go on to our newsletter. That's at link dotthecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter.
Stuart Webb [00:15:49]:
That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter, And and get yourself on that list so you too can hear brilliant people like Jacqueline come here and tell us about the wonderful things they're doing Jacqueline, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.
Jacqeline Conway [00:16:05]:
Webb We
Stuart Webb [00:16:06]:
really appreciate the time you spent.
Jacqeline Conway [00:16:07]:
Thank you very much.
Stuart Webb [00:16:09]:
And, look, we'll we'll we'll we we'll keep in touch. We'll see what other things you're up to at Conway Consulting.
Jacqeline Conway [00:16:16]:
Sounds good. I love it.
Stuart Webb [00:16:17]:
Speak to you very soon.
Jacqeline Conway [00:16:19]:
Take care.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Tiago Faria (ep. 96)
11 jan· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Tiago?
Tiago Faria is a digital marketing expert who specializes in helping professionals in the help industry, such as coaches, mentors, and consultants, to achieve profound transformations and charge a premium for their services. His ideal clients are those who rely on passive word-of-mouth referrals and are seeking to expand their reach through digital marketing strategies. Tiago's mission is to alleviate the anxiety of starting fresh every month and help his clients establish a consistent online presence through daily content creation."
Key Takeaways
00:00 Ideal customers: help industry, focused on transformation, digital marketing.
05:38 Investing in ads without proven results problematic.
07:25 Focus on serving individuals to maximize satisfaction.
10:05 Marketing strategy focuses on leveraging existing assets.
15:30 Resolving issues and persevering with a mentor.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
https://tiagofaria.pt/calls
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/dhacjffgiG4
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
consultant, business mentor, coach, help industry, coaches, mentors, consultants, service providers, digital marketing, passive word-of-mouth referrals, consistency, marketing strategies, daily content, ad hoc freelancers, digital marketing courses, qualified leads, internet gurus, shiny objects, ideal customer, specific niche, proven offer, lifetime value, vision, outcome independent, accountability, focus, 80/20, distractions, networking, referral programs, proactive incentivizing, emotional words.
SPEAKERS
Tiago Faria, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:18]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. I'm delighted today To be joined by Tiago Faria. I hope I pronounced that correctly, Tiago. I'm
Tiago Faria [00:00:29]:
sure you're correct here if
Stuart Webb [00:00:30]:
I'm wrong. We have in front of us our our drinks. Tiago, as you can see, is drinking a nice mug. Is it coffee, Tiago?
Tiago Faria [00:00:37]:
It's coffee. Yeah. It's coffee, In a in a nice Belarusian, mug.
Stuart Webb [00:00:41]:
Oh, oh, oh, wow. I am having, I'm having a very healthy, A cup of water with some lime in it. We're we're starting well. I've gotta keep my voice going out. I've, cold up a couple of days, but Delighted to be welcoming you, Tiago. You're a you're a business mentor, coach, helping people in the in the in the the results outcome Help community. So I'm delighted to to welcome you today to this and to talk about the work and the way in which you help people to achieve what they're trying to achieve. So welcome to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee.
Tiago Faria [00:01:14]:
Thank you, Stuart. It's a true pleasure to be here, and I'm looking forward to these 5 questions. They they look very fun.
Stuart Webb [00:01:20]:
Well, let's start with a nice easy one. So who is the customer that you are trying to help? What's the what's the problem that they've got that you're trying to help them to solve?
Tiago Faria [00:01:29]:
Yeah. So my ideal customer is so as you said, someone that works in the help industry as, some people call it, which is simply people that help others, Get some results, some specific results, or solve some specific problem like coaches, mentors, consultants, even service providers. But those are focused on, profound transformation so that they charge a premium for it. So high ticket, these people who are working that area. And, usually, the the people that I work with are, most of their business usually comes from passive word-of-mouth referrals, and they're kind of worried that Those might dry out at some point, and Mhmm. They're a bit tired of the anxiety of starting every month from 0. And then so they've been trying to resort into some kind of a Digital marketing, strategies. And, so they've been trying to publish daily content.
Tiago Faria [00:02:20]:
They hired some ad hoc freelancers, Bought some digital marketing courses, but somehow, nothing really seems to be bringing qualified leads in a consistent basis. And and, also, they've been been bombarded by the Internet gurus sending them very coffee, confusing strategies. And so they feel that that losing their time, they're getting exhausted and because lack of of consistent results. Just here and there, but nothing consistent. Mhmm. And the that's their biggest change.
Stuart Webb [00:02:48]:
Consistency is a problem because most of us in in these sort of fields find that we sort of go through these feats of famine, don't we? We have we have a period when we have a lot of work. We're very busy, but we then don't get around to doing the thinking about what we need to do for the next period, and then Suddenly, the work five up and you look around and think, well, where is where's all the work gonna come from now? So that consistency is a really important message, isn't it?
Tiago Faria [00:03:12]:
Yeah. Absolutely. It's, it's the the what keeps us going. Right? And and if we don't reach that specific level, it's, it's hard for for us to keep motivated, and then some people just, you know, just quit quit because, okay, she's not bringing exactly what I wanted. I tried so many things. Nothing works. And it's a very easy trap to go into this kind of Chasing the shiny objects. Like, this strategy seems more complex and a faster button.
Tiago Faria [00:03:34]:
Right? I'm gonna try this. Well, I didn't work immediately. I'm gonna try the complete different thing. And it's a trap that you get involved in, and, it's very hard to to get out of. And I was wondering if this is
Stuart Webb [00:03:45]:
So what is it that you, that you think that most these people that your help have done before you you you they they they they turn to to what you try to do to help them together. What what what are the mistakes they've made? What are the things they tried to do which which haven't necessarily worked for me.
Tiago Faria [00:04:01]:
Yeah. So the main thing that, I I was also guilty myself, and the most people I talk to still have this tendency is to to try to help everyone. They they questions themselves as, like, a coach or a, Consultants, and they are not very specific into in terms of who they actually help. And they just keep accepting anyone that just pays them money. Right? So that's they're my niche is whoever pays me. And this is is problematic because, number 1, if you're too generic, No one actually resonates with your message, so it's hard for you to to communicate and then to over to sell it. You're basically trying to I have a view here of of a over, Tagus River in Lisbon. It's like, you you like using a huge five net with huge holes to try to capture all the fish in in this river, But then all of them go through the nets.
Tiago Faria [00:04:50]:
Right? So you end up just catching 1 or 2, you know, by by chance, versus if you try to cap capture a, I forgot how to say, like, a a group of specific fish that, you know, that that share the same same species of five, and then you just use a shorter fishnet, and you capture all of them, Mike. And that's the difference of the approach because you actually know exactly who you're serving, and your message will resonate. They will feel attracted to you because you know them more than better than anyone else. And that that's the that's the the way to go. But, that's the main one of the main issues is trying to help everyone. And then because you try to help everyone, it creates a problem for yourself because you'll just accept anyone. And then most of the times, That persons might not be your ideal client. You might not be able to help them as much as you can, the best you can, or you attract people that you cannot actually helping them.
Tiago Faria [00:05:38]:
It's, it's a problem because, they pay you money. You you cannot generate results. You won't get testimonials. They'll be unhappy. And in in this industry, the results industry or Webb we are, it's it's a problematic, and it's not a place that you would like to to be on. And then so the the second mistake that I I feel that is a a trap we fall into Is is to invest in ads without having a proven offer, something that you already proven that works consistently, that you can generate results consistently, that people Resonate with the the the it's easy to sell, easy to over, and, and you also don't have a proven lifetime value of your clients, like, you don't have you you solve 1 problem, but then you have another solution for the new problem that you create. So you don't have the lifetime value of the client calculated, which is a problem for you too when investing ads Because you don't you don't know exactly how much you can spend on ads, you don't have a proven funnel that will make it all work. So when you when you're at the beginning stages, using ads is like pouring gas on a on a pile of sticks, like Miles Bekker says.
Tiago Faria [00:06:43]:
And you just get you get you just get a Wet five of 6. Right? Nothing will happen because there was no flame. There was no nothing to combust, and that flame is usually the The the proven coffee, an offer that works Yeah. That consistently works. So it's another trap that, many people make.
Stuart Webb [00:06:59]:
You You you're so right, Tioga, and I and I and I I love the way that you're putting it because, I've often said this with customers Webb I when I speak to to to major businesses. I work with some some some very, very big custom and and even the big businesses, when you turn around and say, who's your ideal customer, they'll often turn around and you what, we can serve anyone, and it's not true. You can't serve anyone. It's just not possible. And You can
Tiago Faria [00:07:23]:
serve anyone. I mean
Stuart Webb [00:07:25]:
It it's it's it's it's a way to And you're right that by trying to serve too many people, you don't end up with those hyper hyper happy, very satisfied customers who will then be prepared to go out, Become your your ambassadors who will preach to the rest of the world about just what a wonderful service you do. And if you can target individuals Over down to sort of the right person within, within an organization who will then become the most satisfied customer you can, They will end up being the best advert that you can and with that proven coffee, with a with a with a solution and Five often said this people. I was talking to somebody not so long ago, and I said they told me they hated selling, and I said, well, stop selling. Listen. Well, what do you mean? How will I get customers? And I said Stuart helping. If you have a proven offer, which is a solution to a problem, find the person with the problem, And don't say, can I help you sell it? Reach across to them and say, would you like help solving your problem? And if you've got the solution to their problem, they will ask to buy it from you.
Tiago Faria [00:08:26]:
And
Stuart Webb [00:08:26]:
so it becomes much easier to work with your customers if you've got something you know will solve their problem. You know they've got a problem, and then you just reach out and say, can I help? And they will buy from you if you have got the right solution. And so often people look at you as if to say, I don't even know how to find those people, but it starts with knowing what the problem is that you're solving and knowing that your solution is the solution for that problem.
Tiago Faria [00:08:53]:
Yeah. Absolutely. You really are only as good as as your clients will allow you to be. Right? Absolutely. If you don't generate results, You're in trouble.
Stuart Webb [00:09:02]:
It's Absolutely.
Tiago Faria [00:09:03]:
It's not a long term way to have a business. You really have to focus on bringing only the right people, the ones that you feel I can easily transform this person. She has all the motivation and the skills, the resources. That makes everyone's lives easier, and we rarely focus on that. Right? We are constantly focusing on new clients, cold audiences, selling, sell, sell, sell, sell Webb and disregard this part of okay. But what about the results? What about the Yeah. Congratulations and the testimonials and case studies and etcetera. It's a problem.
Tiago Faria [00:09:32]:
Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:09:32]:
What a what a great message. Thiago, I know you have, you have an offer, and that is a A free call, should anybody want to have a, Stuart to understand a little bit more about what you can to help with and and just tell me, I believe this is the, the Yes. URL they can reach in order to have that free call with you. Tiago, that's t I a g o f a r I a dot p t Slash call. Tell me what happens during that, that call? How long does it take, and what is it you're trying to help your your clients do when you speak to them?
Tiago Faria [00:10:05]:
Yeah. So it usually takes half an hour. I I five to first of all, I love to meet new people in this in this industry. It's just super interesting for me. And, of course, I'd like to have make a couple of questions just to understand the goals, the objectives, what what I've been trying to do before that didn't work. And I try to understand what what are the current assets because my my anti marketing method is based on, you don't need anything else other than what you already have in your current world, like your current contacts, audience, and network, to to have a over fun sustainable to grow a very fun and sustainable business. So we try to look at, okay, what are your current contacts, how many clients you've had before, what is the size of your audience, and then I can calculate, okay, I think we have here something to work on, because if we have past clients, if you have past leads that you've worked with, though, that's usually the starting point for my strategy. And it's actually something that I can share now that is, a valuable five act free, action that Yes.
Tiago Faria [00:11:01]:
The the audience could implement, which is So like we talked to you initially, choose a very specific niche. Right? The person, the problem you try to solve. And then you simply reach out to your current network of past clients, past leads, even your audience, network you have around you. And you simply interview people, 5 to 10 people that you feel are Very well suited for your niche. And you ask them questions, like, about their about their symptoms. What what are the main obstacles? What did he feel? What five you been trying to do that doesn't work? What what do they actually wish to achieve? Because simply by the fact that you're interviewing people in your niche, You will collect the emotional words, the, the actual feelings that people have that later you can use to create your offer. If you reflect exactly what the market wants and needs, it will be so much easier to sell, you know, to create something that they will actually want to buy now. Right? That's That's so key for us to to create offers, because we're so ingrained, and we usually stay in our head.
Tiago Faria [00:11:58]:
And Webb we think we create something, now people have to buy it, which and we should invert that process. And you'll find out very easy that everyone loves to give their opinion, their feedback. And if it's a short call, it's easy yes for them to for you to interview. And you you you get lots of wins out of this simple exercise. You you you craft an offer around that. You go back to them and you can say, hey. Just create this offer that solves the problem you told me you had. What do you think about it? You can actually start selling immediately there.
Tiago Faria [00:12:26]:
And then For people that say yes, you sell it to them. For people that don't want it or don't need it, you can also ask them, but you know anyone else would be interested in this? And so you create here a network of refers and, which is perfect. It's
Stuart Webb [00:12:40]:
Absolutely fantastic. Spot on advice, Tiago. Five I love the value you five there. It is so simple to to implement and and just, you you as you say, reaching out to somebody and just saying, can we spend 15 minutes just just so that I can understand your problem, so that I can I can work out ways you can even do a a networking event that you're attending Today, just, you know, the the when you're handing over your business card, just say to them, what's the major problem that you're facing at the moment in in growing your practice? And if somebody turns around five you just 2 or 3 sentences, use those sentences, use those words to sort of craft your coffee, and then you can put them into those ads that you were talking about, can't you, Tiago? If you're currently facing this problem, people will resonate with that because those are the words that they are themselves using. Once again, you've solved 222 problems with 1 with 1 conversation.
Tiago Faria [00:13:32]:
You became a popular writer. Yeah. It's amazing.
Stuart Webb [00:13:34]:
I think Tiago, what is it that, is it is it a book or a program, a course, something like that, which which brought you to the understanding of of your, and I love the words, the anti marketing method. What was it that that helped you form that?
Tiago Faria [00:13:50]:
Absolutely. I, I got it right here with me. It's a book by mister Jay Abraham, getting everything you can out of all you've got. And that's that's last sentence that inspired me. All you've got. So what do we have around us? Right? It talks a lot about this reaching out to past clients, so to your network, creating referral programs, proactive, and incentivizing people to refer you and become your sales team. It talks about lots of things that are super interesting, like, the basis of marketing and sales, five, the timeless strategies, five, the 3 ways to grow a business, the The lifetime value, creating an irresistible offer that is so crucial, with the help of of people around you, networking referrals. So This this book is really gold.
Tiago Faria [00:14:32]:
It's like, in the all his brain most of his brain is here. And it's a very, underrated book. Think I I haven't seen it that much. But, yeah, I definitely advise,
Stuart Webb [00:14:43]:
JJ. Such a good such a good author, such a such a of knowledge in this in this area, isn't it?
Tiago Faria [00:14:50]:
Absolutely. I really love them when they consume everything he he sends up.
Stuart Webb [00:14:54]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, we've kind of reached the the 5th question of my five, and, this is my, this is my simple one because, up until now, I've had to be thinking of the questions and now what I want to do is is suggest that perhaps there's a question that I haven't thought of that you would like me to ask you and obviously Once you've given me the question that you want me to ask, you'll have to answer it. So this is where I sit back and sort of relax a bit whilst you're doing all the work. So What's that question that I should've asked that you, that you've that you've not been given so far? And and and what is that answer, Tiago?
Tiago Faria [00:15:30]:
Yes, Stuart. It's a amazing question. I was thinking about it. We we sent it before, and, it's something I I would love to that someone Told me before when I was starting out, it would save me a ton of headaches is which is a questions that almost nobody ask who's which is, how to how to go how to go on when Nothing is working. Like, when when things go wrong, when when clients are upset, when, you do some some tail some some tests and it doesn't work, a campaign doesn't work, Five, how do you do how do you how do you go by and, how do you not quit suddenly and then start doing crazy things and reactive and go to? That's not, like, a super important question. And I and I thought here about a simple process that we could think about. But at least I add I did it for myself and probably it will work with someone else, Which is, first of all, with my mentor I worked with my mentor, and he told me, okay. Let's create a vision.
Tiago Faria [00:16:20]:
A vision is so important to have something something clear in your mind Webb you're going, why you're doing what you're doing, How would your life be like after the storm? Right? So know exactly where you're going. It it's it keeps you immune to distractions, to, to accidents, to I don't know. It just keeps you going. It's it's super important. And then getting the skills of, Actually, I I've learned I've learned with, Jim Braun to you should work harder on yourself than on your business. So that's that's something to keep in mind all the time. So I I I I I practiced to myself to to start becoming outcome independent. So no matter what happens, I'm gonna keep doing what I five planned.
Tiago Faria [00:16:59]:
If it doesn't work immediately, it's fine. Just keep going. Just keep going. And also how to how to remain calm. This is also super important too Because things will hap crap will happen for sure in the business, in entrepreneurship. It always does. So if you if you train yourself to become calm and not Reactive all the five. If something bad happens, things become much easier.
Tiago Faria [00:17:22]:
And how do you do that to be to remain calm is to so we have a vision. We should also have a plan of a simple plan, a very simple plan five the strategy I I use here and something that you do daily no matter what. Very simple steps. Like, 3 things you do in a day. 1 for marketing, 1 for sales, 1 for, you know, delivery of your services or whatever. And if you if you stick to it, a simple plan that you know that you can do, that you don't stretch yourself too too thin and you're consistent no matter what happens, Usually, things things things Stuart working and the the, the compound effect effect takes takes takes place, and, You will reach your goals faster than you expected.
Stuart Webb [00:18:02]:
I've just put on screen, Thiago, a question that's come in from from LinkedIn, which is Paul Burton who Said, isn't a consultant just someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time? And I think I think you were addressing some of what, Paul is talking about with, That, that last coffee. And it's true that very often, we as coaches, consultants, mentors, End up telling somebody, what they already know. They know they should have a simple structured plan to their day, that they should spend x amount of time working on their marketing. They should be spending time doing those things. The problem is that very often, despite the fact they've got the watch, they're not looking at it because there's so much going on around them. So The advantage of the outside help that somebody comes in from outside to sit beside that that business owner, that coach, And just remind them of what they're supposed to be doing. It takes away the it takes away their busyness, it takes away their focus from The the the the day to day struggle that they have and reminds them that they've got the watch on their wrist, they need to look at their watch. I object to the to the consultants who take the watch away.
Stuart Webb [00:19:17]:
I prefer to leave the watch very definitely with the business owner, But just remind them to look at it and spend time thinking. I think too many consultants have in the past removed the the the agency from the business owner and said, I'll do that for you. But in actual fact, our job is to help them to do it themselves. I don't know what you think.
Tiago Faria [00:19:39]:
Yeah. I think the key word here for coaches, consultants, etcetera, is your You're, remain your clients accountable. I think that's all we need. Because all information is already available. You can just YouTube, Google everything. There's nothing new that you can create nowadays. It's mostly the the fact that you keep the person accountable. You You unlock when she has some issue.
Tiago Faria [00:20:01]:
You keep her focused, like you said. Like, focused on the 3 things you should do today or whatever is the 80/20, that actually brings results and keep them from all the distractions that that come about the the day. And it's actually that. We're just, accountability coaches, basically.
Stuart Webb [00:20:17]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Tiago, this I think it's been a fascinating discussion. I thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. I would just just now direct people excuse me. A bit of a frog. I send out a newsletter each week telling you about the The person that's gonna come on and talk to us on, on this call each week.
Stuart Webb [00:20:38]:
And if you'd like to get from me, an email, which Just points out who's gonna be on so that you could join the the call five Paul, and just ask questions that you would like to. The link to do that is on screen now, it's httpscolonforward/forward/link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/ Newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. Get on there. Join the newsletter list, and then it's available, you'll get notification each week about who's coming on to the call and how to join. Tiago, thank you so much for spending a few minutes With us today, I will just remind you if you've got questions, don't hesitate to post it in the chat at the end of this. Thiago and I can then, come on and answer those questions. And if you need to speak to Thiago, obviously, he's available.
Stuart Webb [00:21:32]:
Thiago, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate it. I wish you the very best in what you're doing. I think you've said some really interesting things, And I look forward to catching up with you again soon.
Tiago Faria [00:21:42]:
Thank you so much, Stuart. It was a true pleasure, and I hope someone takes something out of this conversation today.
Stuart Webb [00:21:46]:
I surely will. Thank you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Larry Goddard (ep. 95)
14 dec 2023· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Larry?
Larry Goddard is a man of confidence and determination. He believes in facing fears head-on and taking on any challenge with a can-do attitude. His multifaceted nature comes from a decision to pursue his passions wholeheartedly and not be held back by self-doubt. He is motivated by a desire to work with people who share his confidence and belief that they can achieve anything they set their minds to.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Interview with Larry, a talented, visionary leader.
05:35 Active on LinkedIn and YouTube, sharing progress.
10:08 Believe in self, pursue passions, mentor others.
13:48 Paul promotes his book on test automation.
16:17 Excitement for book, follow on LinkedIn, subscribe.
17:49 Thank you, Larry. Talk soon.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
https://www.packtpub.com/product/enhanced-test-automation-with-webdriverio/9781837630189
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/ra2bB6d6Plc?feature=share
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Stuart Webb, Joshua Berry, It's Not Rocket Science, Five Questions over coffee, author, Dare to be NIEV, CEO, Econic, conversation, workplace, broken, humane, people positive, leaders, strategy, innovation, growth, human resources, new practices, agile, DevOps, lean start up, HR standpoint, remote work, return to work, curiosity, trust, experimental, collaboration, leadership mindset, creativity, purpose of work.
SPEAKERS
Larry Goddard, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:23]:
Welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, Five questions over coffee. I'm gonna admit that right at the moment in my mug isn't actually coffee. It's, raspberry tea. I don't know what Larry's got in front of him, but Yeah.
Larry Goddard [00:00:35]:
I have hot chocolate.
Stuart Webb [00:00:36]:
I have hot chocolate. So that's brilliant. So, Larry, welcome to in rocket science over over Five questions I've got. Delighted to invite you to spend a few minutes with us today. Our guest today is Larry Goddard. Larry is an incredible, Polymath. I mean, the man that has so many talents, it's almost impossible to understand exactly where we're gonna go with this, but he's a he's a visionary leader, An award winning test architect, an interim CTO, and a a mentor to, the Black Girls in Tech and, the Black Voices and the founder Founders Institute, he is, He's been an expert witness for for international law firm and a technical adviser to a fashion house. Now This is this is more than we could possibly get into at this stage, Larry.
Stuart Webb [00:01:26]:
So I'm just gonna start with saying, talk to us a little bit about the sort of people you're trying to help and the problems they've got.
Larry Goddard [00:01:35]:
Yeah. I I I think, from from my point of view, I think I don't wanna look at the people who, They wanna do things, but, have this fear that, oh, if I do this, this is going to happen or it's gonna fall apart. I'm I think I I think I would use the word confidence. I don't think I'll be I wanna deal with people, you know, that want that confidence in themselves that I could do anything. Because although my I have to say, I'm multifaceted. And and it all comes from, you know, just deciding, you know, I wanna do this. I'm going all day, and I'm I'm doing that. So
Stuart Webb [00:02:11]:
And and talk to us about some of the some of the people you've helped. Some of those, of the you know, you're obviously working with with people who are starting businesses, and you're doing a lot of public speaking. Tell us about some of the sort of advice you give to those people. Especially,
Larry Goddard [00:02:27]:
I could say especially with the mentoring side of things where, you know, I help them deal with all these people. And I do it a lot from the, Fungus Institute. And those are people who actually looking to open some business. They are funded. They're to get funding for the business only. And one thing I tell them, I tell them is, you know, don't be afraid to take that step. That's the first thing. And 2, the other thing is once you have an idea, you need to put your idea somewhere.
Larry Goddard [00:02:56]:
If you just keep it in your head, Things just things just doesn't match up over that period. You need to document it. You need to relook at it again. And in short, yes. This is what I wanna do, and these are the steps that I want to take. And then you We really do again, you come to people like myself and others. You know, we would tell you, guide you hold your hand and guide you along the way It took your part, not from our vision, but your part.
Stuart Webb [00:03:29]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I love that idea. Be did if, You know, I've I've often said, you know, that, a a bad message out in the world It's far better than a perfect message still inside your head. You know? The the keeping something inside yourself and just waiting for the perfect moment is is always wrong, and I'm just trying to remember who it was that once said it. You know? The best time to start was 20 years ago, but the 2nd best time is now.
Larry Goddard [00:03:56]:
Exactly. Because what's up in your head? It's just you are all annoyed. If you put it on paper, yes, it's still your idea, and you are all annoyed. But now you now have Something visual that you could look at, and you could say, oh, you know, I think I shouldn't go here. I should do this before I do that. But once it's just in your head and it goes around, You spend years waiting for and and and as I always tell people, there is nothing ever called the perfect moment. The perfect moment is right now.
Stuart Webb [00:04:24]:
Yeah.
Larry Goddard [00:04:24]:
Yeah. You know? That's the perfect moment. People tend to we are fine a lot too. People tend to try and Bill is perfect. And I'll just use the word product for the conversation. I want the bill is perfect product before They put it out to the market. No. You need to bill a product, put it out to the market, get some feedback, and improve on the product.
Stuart Webb [00:04:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. That that, that's so often the the the the fault that people have, isn't it? It's it's Trying to make sure something's absolutely perfect before the put it put it out, and it will never be perfect because, you know, first of all, you you have not I got had every single idea you're ever gonna have, but your customers, if they love it, will tell you what they like, what they don't, and what they want to see improved.
Larry Goddard [00:05:11]:
Exactly.
Stuart Webb [00:05:13]:
So, Larry, I mean sorry. Go ahead.
Larry Goddard [00:05:15]:
No. No. No. You you go ahead. Sorry. Now
Stuart Webb [00:05:19]:
so so tell me, what what are you you're also developing new software tools as well at the moment. What where are you where are you gonna be telling us all about this in the future? Where can we continue to watch what you're what you're up to and and your best ideas coming forward?
Larry Goddard [00:05:35]:
Well, like, I think I have my my LinkedIn profile, and then I have my YouTube channel. You You know? So that's where I put everything. So as time goes by and I improve on things or I build things, I put it out on the on the YouTube channel. I talk about it on on my LinkedIn profile. So if you're following me, you know, there you would see you're gonna see everything as it progress And go forward, and you'll get to see all the little bits and pieces that I get myself involved in. You know? So that that's where you'll find me. So I'm I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on YouTube.
Larry Goddard [00:06:08]:
And I'm on Twitter. Sorry. X.
Stuart Webb [00:06:11]:
X. Of course. Yeah. And I I've just put, Larry's, LinkedIn profile now at the bottom of the page, which is, linkedin.com.in. Larry g. So that's Larry G. Follow Larry on LinkedIn. He does do some really interesting stuff.
Stuart Webb [00:06:28]:
I'd say it's he's really got some very interesting things going on. And, yeah, he is an interesting character. So where did you get some of the inspiration? What book or course or, what was it that that really inspired you down your path, Larry?
Larry Goddard [00:06:46]:
Well, I have I have a thing. I mean, I'm one of the old school guys. It had nothing to do with A book or anything is just back in the day. You know, and computers, especially, have now come out because a a a novelty in the day. And just something that interested me, and I started to take my interest in it from since then. And so over the years, I have, you know, looked into it and always do something with it. Mind, I've not always I've never always been in tech. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade.
Larry Goddard [00:07:15]:
So It's it's after I moved from, I'm from Trinidad Tobago, by the way. So after I moved from Trinidad Tobago and came to the UK to live, Then I realized I I had a rude awakening that the call and mechanic don't mix. So So and and that is where my journey is to and that is when I changed my I took my my my hobby. I made it into my career. So a lot of it 90% of what I know is self taught. I thought literally taught myself, I got the software, Back in the day, and I got copies of a lot of things. It wasn't until now. I got a copy of the software.
Larry Goddard [00:07:54]:
I bought some computers. I, you know, I build them up. I start. And and and that's and that's going on and on. And as the technology change, I continue to follow it. And then, you know, the world opened up to open source. So then I started to delve into that, and Then I got to see what people are doing, and we got to use what people were using. And and and think and that's where Classy GS comes up comes about.
Larry Goddard [00:08:16]:
You know, I was tasked with, getting a a job done for Cambridge University at the time back then, And it was it was one of them surreal moments. I realized, oh, I know I I know what I should do. And I decided I started building this framework. Well, the rest is history, as you said. You're quite happy about it from that rough draft and being used to now it's a a node module. You could just, You know, just install as a known module in their place. That's one of the things I do. Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:08:47]:
So so the the the the current The current set of things you're doing, they've just they've just been something you've never been trained for any of this stuff. This is just something that you just know, you just wanna do. What's the what's the 1 piece of advice that you that you that you sort of took from somebody? What was it that sort of made you think, well, I'm just gonna give it a go? You you you there's nothing that's held you back. So it must have been something that somebody did or said or or at some stage pointed out to you that made you think, I could give it a go. Is it something from your parents?
Larry Goddard [00:09:21]:
It it it's one of the things my mom actually used used to say to us, you know, growing up. She see all you say, you know, don't matter what you're doing. Always try to be the best there is. You might never make it, But you will get very, very good at it. You know? And I and I took that I took that through. And then I started and that is where I was, like, about 10 years old or or something and down to the end of the street that I was living on growing up in Lebanon, that guy used fixing cars down there. Now I was trying out, you know, oh, that's really good stuff. Imagine a 10 year old back then, you know, in the early seventies, turns out, oh, that looks good.
Larry Goddard [00:09:56]:
And I just briefly walk into the and say, can you teach me how to do that? And he look at me and say capitalist. Yeah. He actually look at me and say, Son, go home. Why are you down here?
Stuart Webb [00:10:07]:
And yeah.
Larry Goddard [00:10:08]:
But when I I kept going. And then one day, you're saying, okay. You know what? Watch that for me. At the beginning of it, I, yeah, at the beginning, I started washing parts and, you know, and and and following and then the thought that he taught me. And and I think one of the things from that is I think everybody should understand is if you want to do something, no matter what it is, You for yourself have to have a bad belief in you that you could do it. And following my online normal advice, either that's how I think. And I thought I think now, like you rightfully see, I I'm into a lot of stuff. And especially now with the whole AI and the whole framework and building things in it, You know, I'm mentoring people.
Larry Goddard [00:10:48]:
I'm thinking it's all about I could do this. I'm not going to do this. I want to be the best there is. You know, like, somebody said to me once, This is how I just think. I just think like this. If I am a mechanic, I want to open the dictionary. And when I type a new mechanic, I must see a picture of myself there. No.
Larry Goddard [00:11:06]:
I yeah. I got resonate with me. Not really resonate. That means it it simply means what you're going to do always put your best foot forward. And and there's nothing as a stupid question. The only stupid question I have is the one it did not ask. You know? And and it's and it's true that and I follow that all the way through. So as new technologies come out, I I pick up on it.
Larry Goddard [00:11:30]:
I I I do some research. I, you know, I look at the white papers. Yeah. I get involved in in it in a lot of different ways. Going to, expose and and things like that. So that as well keeps, You know, keeps my head in the game with with everything that I'm doing.
Stuart Webb [00:11:47]:
Brilliant.
Larry Goddard [00:11:47]:
And and as you see that and I and as you see that, I think I might just mention this one time, and it's true that, I've written a book, so I don't actually have a book on the market. And it's all you know, talking about, again, automation and and doing other bits and pieces. And from that as well, you know, somebody asked me, hey. Could you and I thought about it. And then, in my head, I say, Why why think about it? Here, you have an opportunity to to write a book. Just go for it. And then why did I just say, yes. I'll do it, and this is the end result.
Stuart Webb [00:12:19]:
And when are we seeing that?
Larry Goddard [00:12:21]:
It's it's out now. I mean, I could see if you look at my my LinkedIn profile. I mean, I can I I could I could even share the the cover, the book you? I'm not sure where I can do that. Great.
Stuart Webb [00:12:30]:
Yeah. Please do.
Larry Goddard [00:12:32]:
I mean, I will send it come up for you in a email or call. I don't think I could drop it in this chat yet. Hello, Blake. And, yeah, I'm. So it's the book is live. It's on, Amazon. It's, it's on Pat Pat Publishing for the publishers. And and yeah.
Larry Goddard [00:12:47]:
So it's there. It's called it's called, enhanced test automation with WebDriver IO. That's in that's in the name of the book. If you look at Amazon right now, you could just you could find it with that.
Stuart Webb [00:13:00]:
If I I if I could find it in the moment, I'd show it, but there we go. We're not gonna be able to do it. Had 1 comment in as we've been talking. Paul has commented and said, it's so true. Test in test automation, it is never too Soon to start. And, yeah, what can I say? The number of, of live software projects that I have been involved in where We started testing far too late, and we tested with the wrong people, and it all ended up in complete disaster. But that's another story for another day, And I won't bore you with it bore bore you with an hour range.
Larry Goddard [00:13:33]:
Guys have I don't think I that just you randomly choose that, but that is my co author, by the way.
Stuart Webb [00:13:40]:
That's a good one then.
Larry Goddard [00:13:42]:
Yeah. That's that's my call. You both know that.
Stuart Webb [00:13:46]:
I'm so glad
Larry Goddard [00:13:47]:
reach out there.
Stuart Webb [00:13:48]:
I'm so glad that Paul's listening in. Paul, he's also said to us at this very moment, enhance test automation. Okay. That's the name of the book. It's enhance Test automation with WebDriverIO unlock the superpowers of hybrid testing frameworks. Paul, Larry, I'll make sure that goes into The show notes so that people can get a copy of that if they want to. Look, I've, I've asked you a series of questions at the moment, Larry, and I'm sure there's probably one that you're thinking I haven't asked, and when's he gonna get around to asking it? So this is my way of saying, Here's your opportunity to to tell me the question you would have liked me to have asked, and then, obviously, you have to answer it for us. So what's that question?
Larry Goddard [00:14:32]:
I think I think that question should, you know, should be, what are you working on now, and where do you see yourself going with it?
Stuart Webb [00:14:39]:
Okay. So what what are you working on now? Where do you see yourself going with it, Larry?
Larry Goddard [00:14:44]:
Yeah. At at the moment At the moment, I'm working on a project called Classy GS. It's it's out there. What it does is our test automation framework. By the way, it's using WebDriverIO and and things like that. And where where, where I'm going with it is, Because, you know, AI is the whole new talk at the time, the new kid on the block. Yes. I'm heavily involved in in in in AI as well.
Larry Goddard [00:15:11]:
So right now, going forward, I'm going to remove some of the existing parts from it and replace it with AI powered technology and and make it, you know, up to scratch and activate the, you know, for the future going forward. And in in doing that, it will also It will also gives me the opportunity to improve on what is there and see, you know, what's new coming out. And as you can see, we're in the AI space. So A lot of new text. You know? You have. You have the you have the Microsofts. You have the the the the Chrome, the Googles. I know everybody bringing out their own copilots and and things like that.
Larry Goddard [00:15:47]:
So going forward and for the future, it's about locking into those products and seeing how best we could use it to, You know, to to help the testing community. So I would spend a lot of time, you know, going forward doing that for for the for the community. And it's and it's all open source. So not like I'm building something that people have to pay for it in a day. I'm building it, and I'm giving them that just as part of me. That is me saying thank you for all the knowledge I got from you guys over the years, and This is my contribution back to the community.
Stuart Webb [00:16:17]:
I love that. I love that. I look forward to seeing that in the in the world. Larry, it's been fascinating sort of having you on for a few minutes. I really do hope people check out that book, and follow you on LinkedIn because you've got some fascinating insights into the world. I'm just gonna mention at this point, if, if you would like to get onto our mailing list so that every A week, pretty much, I put out an email which just says who's coming up on the, on the podcast so that you can be prepared to follow them, To ask questions as Paul was here to sort of interact with the guest on Tuesdays, please go to this link, which is link.thecompleteapproachdot c0.ukforward/newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.c0.ukforward/newsletter. Get on to the list.
Stuart Webb [00:17:04]:
Allow me to send to you our upcoming, live interviews with interesting characters just like Larry, and then you too can be here to, to interact with people like that. Larry, thank you so much for being with us today. Really appreciate you taking out a few minutes of your day. You're a busy guy, so I guess, I guess we better let you get back to changing the world, changing the lives of some of those mentors that you're working with. And thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.
Larry Goddard [00:17:34]:
Yeah. The pleasure is all mine, Stuart. And, you know, like I said, it was a pleasure to to to do this, and, I and I will continue doing so, and I will follow I myself will follow your newsletter and, you know, jump in and see what some of the other guests come and have to say as well. Another thank
Stuart Webb [00:17:49]:
thank you very much, Larry. Speak to you again soon.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Joshua Berry (ep. 94)
30 nov 2023· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Joshua?
Joshua Berry is a visionary leader who is determined to fix the broken state of the workplace. With a strong belief in creating a more humane and people-positive work environment, he is committed to revolutionizing the world of work. Joshua understands that true change starts from within organizations and often seeks out leaders in strategy, innovation, growth, and human resources who share his passion for transforming the how and why of business operations. Through his book and various initiatives, Joshua aims to support these individuals in their mission to bring about positive change within their organizations.
Key Takeaways
02:10 Exploring new practices, adapting without supporting people.
04:13 Innovation hub hindered by division manager.
07:22 Daring to be naive for progress and joy.
10:26 Allow employees freedom, reap the rewards.
14:01 Impact of intangibles on bottom line ignored.
17:54 Promote and grow by building trust.
20:43 Books, openness, curiosity, inner work, progress.
23:58 Work: a space to grow people, organizations.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
daretobenaive.com
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/1ZKGoZUxiNA?feature=share
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter
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It's a detailed breakdown of how you can grow your business to 7-figures in a smart and sustainable way
————————————————————————————————————————————-
Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Stuart Webb, Joshua Berry, It's Not Rocket Science, Five Questions over coffee, author, Dare to be NIEV, CEO, Econic, conversation, workplace, broken, humane, people positive, leaders, strategy, innovation, growth, human resources, new practices, agile, DevOps, lean start up, HR standpoint, remote work, return to work, curiosity, trust, experimental, collaboration, leadership mindset, creativity, purpose of work.
SPEAKERS
Joshua Berry, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:20]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science. Five Questions over coffee. I'm delighted to be joined this afternoon by Joshua Berry. Joshua is the author of Dare to be NIEV, which is a really interesting book, and the CEO of Econic. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Joshua, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee.
Joshua Berry [00:00:39]:
Thank you, Stuart. Got my coffee, and we are ready
Stuart Webb [00:00:41]:
to rock. Yep. Yep. Yep. We are it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon for me. This is probably not what I should be drinking. I won't sleep, For the rest of the afternoon, which is normally what we like to propose. Anyway, Joshua, yeah, now welcome to, to to the podcast.
Stuart Webb [00:00:55]:
Good luck to have you here. Just, just for just for clarity, kind of, what is it that you're trying to do with Dare To Be Naive and and your work at Econic? Who who are the who are the customers you're trying to help them out? What problems do they have? What is, what is what is the sort of problem that you're helping them solve?
Joshua Berry [00:01:11]:
Sure. You know, I believe in a lot of ways, the workplace, is broken. Right? We can go long strides in making, the world of work Even more humane and more people positive. And a lot of the times, the people that we work with are leaders in strategy or innovation or growth Or human resources, I think some of those leaders who are most also passionate about shifting the how and why of their businesses. And, you know, that's that's routinely where we meet them. And a lot of what, as you mentioned with the book, that we're trying to do is to help more of those People as they are trying to shift those ways of being within their organizations.
Stuart Webb [00:01:53]:
And and, You know, come a lot of these these people would have tried things before they get around to reaching out to you. What what Things do you see them doing? What problems do you see them getting into before you're able to help them overcome those problems?
Joshua Berry [00:02:10]:
Good question, Stuart. I think there's there's a lot of people who are out there who know they need to do something different, And so you they rightly are looking at new practices for their organization. Maybe they are, Looking into using agile or or DevOps, or they're looking at lean start up or or new ways to do innovation in the organizations. Maybe from an HR standpoint, they're looking at remote work is a big example right now and return to work. They are experimenting with new ways of trying to shift how they do business. But I'd say one of the biggest Challenges, and sometimes the mistakes that they run into is not well, 2 of them, I guess, we can get into. The first one is That they realize that while they're trying to adapt to these new practices, they're not actually taking the opportunity to help those people adapt as they're trying to practice Those new things. Right? Like, the the whole idea of, you know, if if you dig into some of those practices, they're saying, We want our people to be more curious.
Joshua Berry [00:03:15]:
We want them to be more trusting. We want to be more experimental. We want a bit greater collaboration. And yet if you just pursue adopting one of those new says and just push it down to people and use a traditional approach to it, you're missing out on this amazing opportunity to also involve people in practicing those behaviors, Which you're actually hoping to get from some of those practices. So that's that's a big piece of it. I think the second one is, not also taking the opportunity to Do shifts in leadership mindset behavior. A great example is in the innovation space, trying to get people to be more creative or experimental or even spinning up innovation labs, But not investing equally in helping shift the mindset of leaders because they also need to work on those things that help create a safer space for people to innovate or, become more iterative in their decision making or or a number of those things. So they they try to get people to do new practices without starting to adapt and adopt new practices themselves.
Stuart Webb [00:04:13]:
I particularly love that last majority. I was involved some years ago in helping to set up, an innovation hub in the business and, You know, the people that I was working with incredibly enthusiastic, but there was a there was a division manager who would, Who would insist that everything that came through this innovation hub had to come through him for vetting before he was prepared to green light it to go forward for commercialisation And this attitude was basically, this is going to somehow destroy either part of my revenue stream or Something else that I that I hold is a pet project so I will just stop everything. So the Innovation Hub came up with, I think in the 3 months that we sort of started trialing this, a 106 Innovations of which one was given the green light, and it was one of those moments where I had to go to the chief executive and go, it's a brilliant idea, this innovation hub, but there is a problem. And he looked at me and said, do you know where the problem is? And I said, yes. I know where the problem is. He said, where is it? I said, it's in that office. He looked at me and went, I don't know how to solve that problem. And I went, and that's nothing I can do to help you.
Stuart Webb [00:05:20]:
You're absolutely right. The mindset is so critical, You know, the the number of chief executives would go, well, if we can just make it work, it will be fine, but I don't really wanna disturb anything that's going on around here because It will make other things problematic for me.
Joshua Berry [00:05:35]:
You you nailed it there, Stuart. We are in the middle of a fundamental Shift that is happening in the world of work and how work is done. And and what you're seeing is we've had things that worked for many decades that relied more on a command and control sort of approach. Right? Our ability to streamline and predict and forecast. And now we have tension, right, between, our ability to even predict the future or need things. And so Rightly so, the best leaders are saying, I need people to be more adaptable and agile and nimble, and, hence, they do all those practices that I was saying before. But it runs into this clash as you just said with people who are still trying to hold on to some of those vestiges of what got us to to where we are right now. And so we're in this interesting liminal space, and and I think you have to acknowledge that there are some of those beliefs about what maybe assessors for that person, maybe there's even internal things that that your former leader needs to work through to be able to get to a spot to make it okay for some of these new practices that that I think most employees and people want to bring into the world.
Stuart Webb [00:06:41]:
And and I guess this is the sort of the thrust of the book, dare to be naive, that that That you've you've recently got around to giving to the world and there's going to be a a link where people can go look at this and have a a look at, the book, which is here, at joshuaberry.com/ dare to b hyphen naive. I'll put that in the show notes for those people who didn't manage to catch you at this stage, but talk to us a little bit about, you know, the sort of advice and that you talk about in that book. And maybe give us some an insight of something we can go away and do, with that advice today to help move on some of these mindset shifts we need to do.
Joshua Berry [00:07:22]:
Yep. The idea of of daring to be naive is really about letting go of I already know everything. Right? And it's also about tapping into those things that represent not just what's reasonable, but also what feels intuitively Correct to look at, right? So back to the example that you used before of your leader, there's There's a lot of things that go into protecting ourselves and making us try to feel safe and smart and right and perfect and all of those things. And What we challenge in the book is a lot of times the beliefs that have led us to where we're at today, some of them have become limiting beliefs To what is possible for the future, and it's only until you have a shift into saying, you know what? I might be wrong, or you know what? There might be another way. And sometimes even things that might not have been thought before, that we're truly going to have progress. And so the book is about All those times where we probably self limit ourselves, we screen ourselves to present only those things that seem acceptable to the rest of the world, and how we might continue to move through that. Through some of the research and interviews that I've seen, a lot of people Fear being seen or labeled as naive, and yet that fear of being seen as naive actually prevents you from having a greater impact and greater joy in your life. Back to your question about maybe prompting for a free tool.
Joshua Berry [00:08:56]:
One of the things that we practice in the book, and you can find it on that dare to be naive.com or the or the link that you shared, is When we look at our practices, similar to the things that we talked about before, too often, we're not digging into what the beliefs are that power those practices. Right? And so there's a simple 2 by 2 matrix that we use to to help people, and and you can find it there, or you can email me afterwards if you can't find it. And, the tool is basically, what is the current practice? Let's take, for instance, work from home right now. It then challenges you to say, what are the beliefs, either known or maybe just observed or accepted, that are powering that practice. Right? And then it challenges people to talk about and reflect on what is shifting in those beliefs. Right? So so maybe it's maybe the practice is work from home, and the beliefs are a mixture. Oh, people can't be productive, or maybe they can be productive, or whatever it might be. You then create conversation either for the leader or for the team to be able to talk about how are those beliefs shifting or evolving, and then from those evolved beliefs, what are new that we can begin to experiment with.
Joshua Berry [00:10:10]:
And so being intentional about understanding how our beliefs inform our practices and having a simple process to To kind of dissect those and dig into those is, one of the things that we explore in the book through a myriad of different examples and ideas.
Stuart Webb [00:10:26]:
Brilliant. Joshua, I'm I'm I think you've you've you've really highlighted one of the things with you is pretty critical In the workplace today, which is the the the mindset should've shift. We talk about a lot about servant leadership and things like that, but, you know, leaders still have got to get their heads around Allowing people to to to to become themselves at work, can't they? One of my, one of the people I've Spent some time looking and and and talking to is a guy called John Timpson who runs A series of shops around the UK that are about shoe shops and he has only 2 rules for the people that work for him and that is Show up and look the part and put the money in the till. And that's it. You know, pretty much after that, his managers, the people that are on the front line, got Free reign to do a whole load of things, to really adapt their business practice and process in order to sort of truly serve the customer. As a result, He's grown enormously, and he has people working for him who worked for years and will never work anywhere else. Because they turn around and say, When it comes to spending money, he gives me free rein to do what I want. And, you know, so long as so long as they make a profit, and so long as he can sort of see they're making a profit, he gets out of their way as a As a a chairman of a large company, he just gets out of their way and leaves them to it.
Stuart Webb [00:11:47]:
That's a that's an attitude very few leaders have managed to grasp and put put put on in their organization. I think it's it's inspiring when I hear people like you sort of talk about some of this stuff and how to make that happen.
Joshua Berry [00:11:59]:
Yeah. You hit upon it there, Stuart. And one of the stories that I cover in the book, talks about a manufacturing facility, actually in France, that The CEO took it over, and it was a traditional manufacturing facility, right, where, time clock cards and you get penalized if you show up late. All of the materials and supplies are locked up in the closet, and you gotta go take your coupon to be able to get new supplies and materials. And, when Jean Francois showed up at that factory, he started to say, why did we design an organization that assumes Humans are wrong or bad or trying to be lazy or trying to get away with things. What would happen if we designed An organization from the opposite that assumes humankind was good, And they stripped away the controls. They stripped away a number of those things, and you know what? People started to show up earlier. They started to care about what they were doing.
Joshua Berry [00:13:02]:
Quality went up. Engagement went up. Their market share went up. There was amazing impact and a great return on that investment. And so we cover in the book that, like, it it isn't 1 or the other. We we we talked about it as 2 ROIs. You can get ripples of impact and a return on investment. And similar to what your leader, that you're just highlighting there, with the cashiers, It isn't, oh, I'm only going to do it as long as I'm gonna get these results.
Joshua Berry [00:13:33]:
We're not telling you to ignore those sorts of things, but it's amazing How many stories are out there of when you do choose to prioritize treating people as human, treating people as wanting to give something, and honoring people, that a lot of times a decent ROI also comes on the backside of that. And sometimes it's hard to have the faith or the optimism or the hope to be able push through some of that, that's the dare to be naive. Right?
Stuart Webb [00:14:01]:
It's a it's a great message, Shashank. I I I love the fact that I think One of the things that you're sort of highlighting there is that the return on investment is so often in things that are difficult to measure or or almost in those intangibles. You know, If you can reduce churn, if you can keep somebody working for your organization longer, you know, you reduce recruitment costs, you recruit Retention costs you recruit, you you reduce your your retraining costs. You get people who are better attuned to your customers, your ethos. Although it's something difficult things to measure it that people just therefore just don't measure and as a result they go, okay, well if we can't measure it, we'll ignore it And yet it has huge impact upon the bottom line. If you are constantly having to recruit team members and they're just they're there for a month or 2 and then go because they've been treated horribly, We don't measure that, but what we don't what we don't as a result, we miss out on is the is the impact that that has on the bottom line. People just turn around and go, I can't understand why it Costs us so much and yet, you know, going back to sort of a simple retail store, if if if those costs are built in, they raise the price And yet people will look around and go, I don't know what's don't know what happens, but down the road, that warehouse, everything's much cheaper. And everybody always seems to be the same.
Stuart Webb [00:15:17]:
I don't know what's going on. That's something that just is so often not measured even by HR departments who are trying to sort of find these things and work out what they are.
Joshua Berry [00:15:26]:
I think you're right, Stuart. There is definitely a concrete ROI that you can see from those good actions from retention and loyalty and Productivity, etcetera. I will throw out there, and this is probably maybe a little controversial for at least for me, 8 o'clock coffee. I wonder if sometimes even our thought of retention is maybe the wrong term. Right? Because it it sets up an organization and an employee as some as a person to be retained. Right? Stewart, I don't know your relationship status, and we don't need to get into this. But Imagine with my spouse if I went into thinking about what is my retention of my spouse. Right? Like that's From an unconditional love standpoint, like, that's probably not something that I'm going to go for.
Joshua Berry [00:16:13]:
And yet we I know it's not a perfect analogy here, but When we start to think about the act of care and concern for the people who are serving us in this organization, employees, And the consumers and people that we're serving, what would happen if we started from another standpoint instead of saying, I need to retain this person, and we said, what would I need to do to make this person want to be here? And I would be okay if they didn't. We work with a great leader of HR who said before, this this individual works in a community, has several Fortune 500 companies. She said, the future belongs to a place where I might have someone who works Down there at Union Pacific, down there at Mutual of Omaha, and some of their time over here with me. If I understand that that's how the community is going to be or even shortsighted, understand that I'm helping prepare people who go out into the community that I want to live in, why wouldn't I prioritize the growth and the deference, right, that we're able to do it? So, it's, it's it's it's a challenge that's out there. It's baked into a friend yesterday was telling me, you know, it's baked into the word the war on talent. Right? It it implies that there has to be this this tension or this otherness that happens to it. And and I think More and more successful leaders are testing the ideas that there can be a different relationship there.
Stuart Webb [00:17:39]:
Yeah. And I think we just had that comment come in that the retention is a word Jesus control. And you're right. It's it's a it's about it's about, that introduction of a lack of trust and falling back on our beliefs. And and I'll I'm Sorry, Greg. I'm sorry. I don't know who the user is. It's just doing that on mobile.
Stuart Webb [00:17:54]:
I'll find out as we get back out of this. But but, you know, I can remember In some of the companies that I've been working with, I have had words with managers when I say to them that one of the ways that I measure them as a success is if there are people that come through and get promoted and they go out into bigger roles because as far as I'm concerned, their job as a manager is to ensure that the people that They are working with their coach to go on and do better and and, you know, actually, the manager looks at you as if to say, but but I don't measure on people leaving and I go, Yeah. This this what I'm trying to do is turn around and say if that person leaves, they leave to a different part of the Company or they go and do something else. You've you've they they got a a a somebody who will be grateful to you forever for what you've done for them, And you will always be able to speak to them and go, do you have a young person that's ready for the next I'll take them. I'll move them on in exactly the way that you've been moved on, And they'll be throwing people your way and you'll get the best talent in your department because there will be people who trust you and it's back to trust. It is it is largely around getting them to trust that you really do have their best in at heart and their best interests and that Grows the entire operation, grows the organization as a whole.
Joshua Berry [00:19:09]:
That sounds like an amazing legacy, right, to be able to leave behind 100%.
Stuart Webb [00:19:14]:
So, Joshua, there must be some, book course or or program or or something which really started you down the path of of starting to think like Share that with us so that we can all go on the same journey that you've gone on.
Joshua Berry [00:19:30]:
And
Stuart Webb [00:19:30]:
with this, I'm gonna take a sip of coffee. This is gonna I'm gonna need you to call for You know,
Joshua Berry [00:19:35]:
if if any if any of my family is listening or friends who know me too much, they know I have a book problem. And So, there there is quite a bit, quite quite a number, so I I will try my best. More recent ones that have influenced some of this belief, One is, there's a couple authors. Diana Chapman is the main one that comes to mind of the book called 15 Commitments to Conscious Leadership, is is a great book that has helped me think through some of those shifts. I would say There's been a lot of inner work, that I've gone through because you do have to yourself. And so there's a number of programs whether it's been through the Purpose Guide Institute or, or other coaches, or or people that I've worked with who have really helped me start to understand What are the stories that are in my head that prevent me from entertaining so many other ideas that might be out there? So, For instance, you know, I needed to there's no such thing as a book problem. Thank you, Melissa. Melissa is ahead of me on reading books this Sure.
Joshua Berry [00:20:43]:
Anyway, so I can't claim I have a book problem, I guess. When I think about, specifically, though, the Ability to be able to, like, recommend books, I think there's so many. And I think just the act of people being open and curious And learning and wanting to try and dig into something different, I think that is what's helpful. And then as I mentioned, any programs that focus on inner work and what the stories are that you're telling yourself. You know, in our organization, we experimented with increased not only our financials, but even pay over the last couple of years. If I hadn't done some of my own inner work To understand what are my hesitations to share that as as as the owner and CEO of the company. Like, there's no way we're going to move beyond that. And so Yeah.
Joshua Berry [00:21:32]:
Any leaders who are starting to say, like, if this feels like a thing I wanna do, but all the rest of the world and everything is saying no, Spend a little bit of time doing some inner work just to truly understand what are the things you gain and what you lose by holding on to some of those beliefs that may actually be Time to sunset.
Stuart Webb [00:21:50]:
I think you're absolutely right, Jeff. In terms of in terms of that, one of the things that I did, with a guy that the company that we grew from, Well, initially, about 3 of us through to about 60 people. I basically took the entire company and I said, right. I'm gonna teach you how to read the company accounts. And, once a month on a Friday, I'm gonna stand up and talk about what's going on in the business, and you can ask me any questions you like. And I was astounded. First of all, that that I thought that the you know, I had a couple of people who turn around me go, What what what if they ask about so and so? And I go, well, I'm gonna be honest. I mean, you know, there's a problem.
Stuart Webb [00:22:28]:
They might as well know about it because they might know how to solve it. And that was exactly the attitude I got. There were people who were standing up and going, well, why are we doing that? Why are we spending money on that? We could do that. You go, okay. Fine. We can we can cut that or I've got an idea of how we could sell this and I'd go, terrific. Yeah. Let's get together and talk about exactly what we do do to turn that into a prop.
Stuart Webb [00:22:49]:
People who you would you'd imagine would never never be interested in doing such things, but, wow, the opportunity is is just, It's just it's just fantastic to take people on that journey.
Joshua Berry [00:23:02]:
I I I love that. You know, the the purpose of Econic, is truly to create the space for people to practice the behaviors that grow themselves and the organization. And you just nailed it right there. Like, I I believe that my community, for sure, my family, I know will be even greater if they get an opportunity to build their financial acumen, their business acumen, as you Jared. Right? And if we continually see that what we're doing you know, if if there was a question that I would hope you'd ask me, Stewart, it'd be, what is the purpose of work? And that was the question
Stuart Webb [00:23:36]:
I was about to get here, to get to you. We're gonna leave in now.
Joshua Berry [00:23:40]:
Swooping the tables. Swooping the tables on you, Stuart.
Stuart Webb [00:23:44]:
Leap in now because the last question I was gonna ask you, Joshua, is a is a question that I haven't yet asked you. What is it? And now you need to answer it. So No. I'm glad we got to that stage. We're not be needing to do anything more any more work.
Joshua Berry [00:23:58]:
Well, okay. What of the purpose of work? And I I truly believe in in today's world where where I think there's fewer and fewer institutions that bring people together for that growth. I think work can Begin and and continue to be a place for people to practice, right, those opportunities to grow themselves, right, and that work. Whether it's whether it's social experiences, whether it's collaboration, whether it's trust, whether it is creativity, curiosity, whether it's finding meaning. Right? There's there's really few places that we spend more time than work, and if we take the opportunity to say, You know what? All of our work, all of our projects, all the things that we're working on are not only a space to be able to grow the organization, but maybe first and foremost To help grow the people who are working through that, again, I think growth becomes an outcome of that and you have all the other great ripples of impact that happen that are beyond that. So, yeah, I I think that's that ties back to the mission, that that I'm definitely working on and, I'm excited to be able to share with everybody today, Stuart. So thank you.
Stuart Webb [00:25:13]:
Listen, Joshua. This has been a really fascinating discussion. I'm gonna I'm just gonna point out once again. You need to go check out Joshua's book, which is at joshuaberry.com/uh, dare to be naive. There with hyphens in between each of those words. Otherwise, it would just run into 1. Very You
Joshua Berry [00:25:32]:
you can also just go to dare to be naive .com. There is a
Stuart Webb [00:25:35]:
Or dare to be my e.com. So, please, go go check out Joshua's book. And, my thanks to you, Joshua, for coming and spending a few, minutes with us here. Listen. I'm just gonna just gonna wrap this up by saying if you would like to get a pre notification, we send we do one of these pretty much every Tuesday. If you'd like to get notification before the event so that you can join on the live and ask questions as you've seen, we've had comments and questions coming in during this discussion. Why don't you go to this link which is, httpscolon/linkthecompleteapproach.co.uk / news lecture. That gets you onto the mailing list.
Stuart Webb [00:26:13]:
You come out once every week with a little bit of a a blurb from me just telling you who's coming up And you can be on the LinkedIn live and watch out for that, each week and then obviously you can obviously also subscribe to the podcast and hear these when they get Issued as a podcast. Joshua, thank you so much, for your time. I'm just gonna leave the link back up. It's been a fascinating discussion. I love what you're doing with Econic, and the the book. Please, keep us informed. Let us know what's going on, and we look forward to watching the progress, in the future.
Joshua Berry [00:26:47]:
Thank you, Stuart. This has been fun. And if I had to leave you with one last thing, do you know the secret to taking good coffee on the go?
Stuart Webb [00:26:56]:
That's secret now.
Joshua Berry [00:26:57]:
It's it's not where you're going. It's where you've been.
Stuart Webb [00:27:03]:
Thank you, Joshua. Goodbye. Please take your jokes with you. I gotta I gotta get us out with a quick quick wrap up for you.

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Five Questions Over Coffee with Adrienne Bellehumeur (ep. 93)
16 nov 2023· It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee
Who is Adrienne?
Adrienne Bellehumeur is a seasoned professional based in Calgary, Alberta, known as "Texas North" due to its association with the oil and gas industry. With expertise in working with clients in various industries, Adrienne primarily focuses on assisting oil and gas companies, including those in the process of going public in Canada or listed on the US exchange. Her main area of expertise lies in running compliance and internal control operations, as well as handling financial process work. Additionally, Adrienne excels in using her skills in documentation to solve a wide range of problems faced by her clients. While her clientele spans across different sectors, her current work heavily revolves around the oil and gas industry.
Key Takeaways
[00:02:18] Doing more with less: a universal problem.
[00:04:04] Knowledge lost; document lessons, automate, avoid stagnation.
[00:07:27] Wasted money on known problem; lack of communication.
[00:10:35] "Documentation is a problem-solving tool for career success."
[00:14:43] Book summarizes career best practices for all.
[00:18:13] Poor cash flow due to delayed sales.
[00:20:39] Subscribe to link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/newsletter for updates and free downloads.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
www.bellehumeurco.com/6steps
A video version of this podcast is also at
https://youtube.com/live/1ZKGoZUxiNA?feature=share
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
documentation, grow your business, 24 hour rule, mass market, advice, guidance, compliance, internal control, financial process, oil and gas, scalability, employee engagement, headcount, systems, knowledge, inflation, interest rates, business owners, high interest rates, high inflation, people's heads, do more with less, lessons learned, automate, minimal effort, sale price, knee-jerk reaction, fancy systems, knowledge management programs, consistent habits, routine.
SPEAKERS
Adrienne Bellehumeur, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:
Hi. And welcome back to It's not rocket science. I've gotta get that in the middle of the frame. Five questions over coffee. I'm here today with Adrian Bellhuma. Adrian is an expert on documentation and how to best use that documentation to help grow your business. And she's the author of the 24 hour rule, which is the 1st real mass market, book, which gives advice and guidance on the best use and best of documentation to grow your business. So I'm really pleased to have Adrienne here with me on the podcast.
Stuart Webb [00:00:54]:
Adrienne, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:00:58]:
Thanks so much, Stuart, for having me. This is great.
Stuart Webb [00:01:01]:
Well, it's terrific to have you. Adrian, let's, let's start by sort of understanding a little bit about the The sort of audience that you you that you help the the the people that have got pros problems that you are trying to help them solve those problems.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:01:16]:
The clients I work with are well, I'm I'm in Calgary, Alberta, so we are considered Texas North, that's our nickname. So I work with a lot of oil and gas clients here, of but and Of companies of all sizes, to be honest, whether it's company that is just in the process of Going public in Canada or large, companies US to on the US exchange. The bulk of my business is actually running Compliance, internal control, financial process work, but I do a lot of other, types of using using the skill of documentation to solve to solve problems. So but it's it's a range of, it's a range of clients, but we we have a heavy focus on oil and gas right now.
Stuart Webb [00:02:03]:
So tell me, what are the sort of problems that those clients have had, and and what have they tried to do to solve the problem that that that they've not necessarily been that successful with before you get involved with them.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:02:18]:
Yeah. Well, it's I mean, it's very topical right now, and I hate give a buzzword, cop cop out response, but doing more with less is a huge theme right now. And I'd say it's a it's Almost a universal problem with inflation, interest rates, really changing the game and how, companies make decisions. So, Again, it's talked about a lot right now, but I don't think it's just just a buzzword. I would say it's the the biggest problem that Clients right now are are struggling with is how to do more with their their staff, first of all. I mean, we Employee engagement is at a all time low right now. People are not looking we are in an age where people are not looking to increase their headcount. In fact, we're looking to decrease headcount pretty much everywhere and just operate with a leaner, structure.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:03:11]:
I have other clients that are that are in a maybe in a different category than a more mature business. They are looking To scale or leverage what they're doing, but still not not really looking they don't we're not in a environment of spending a ton of money, so I this This do more with less theme, is massive whether it's, an existing business scaling kinda scaling back, Using their people better, using systems better, using knowledge in people's heads better. It just seems like a universal and even even Business owners that are looking to scale, right now with high high interest rates, high inflation, It's a more it's a people wanna do it right without just spending a ton of money throwing throwing, you know, Throwing money at at the problem, which is really not what I'd advise to do either.
Stuart Webb [00:04:04]:
And re and really one of the great problems that that, That we we've we've we've we've found ourselves locked into for a lot of years, isn't it? It's the fact that we don't often document All of the lessons learned and things that have happened in the past and how we do things well enough so that when you do get that Turnover of engagement or when you do need to downsize and you do need to automate things through systems, it's not possible to do that because the knowledge is lost. So the knowledge is is lost because it's locked in people's heads, and it's only by sensibly and by, Well, I'd like to say with minimal effort, but that's what it is. With minimal effort getting into a document which is easy to understand, keep refreshed, Keep people sort of, up to speed that a business owner is able to do that. And it and it it's critical to to not only growth, but When it comes to that stage of when you need to, as a business owner, start thinking about exit, if it's all locked away in people's heads, you cannot possibly move the business forward.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:05:03]:
Yeah. It certainly can hurt your sale price as well, in the event of a of a even even informal documentation can be used to increase your sale price as well. So that's that's a great point. I mean, any, tier audience that's often looking to leverage their business, I mean, Doc, just getting things on paper is that's a huge part big part of my business too is actually
Stuart Webb [00:05:27]:
business
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:05:28]:
point of leverage. Even even myself, if I'm looking to bring someone new in our team or, Using an administrator, all of a sudden, the stuff that I've done from my own head has to be transferred. I mean, it's it's very interesting how Important documentation becomes oh, even when you expand to just 2 people doing doing something. I mean, my my advice, I guess, Stuart, what I see in and and why I'm so motivated in this area is that most most businesses have really knee jerk reaction to these projects Where it's kind of, oh, let's just go doc run and spend a fortune either documenting or fancy systems or almost overkilling, the problem as opposed to just consistent habits, that is less costly. So that's Part of my soapbox I'm getting on and the motivation for my work, I know you wanna ask about why we're what companies Could do better. Yeah. The knee jerk reaction of rushing out and spending a fortune either documenting or systems or these Fancy knowledge management programs. And then what happens is, of course, they just get cut.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:06:40]:
This is cut when, when the Buzzword changes. So I've I've my whole math my entire methodology is about Consistent habits that are actually quite an Habits. Quite routine.
Stuart Webb [00:06:55]:
Habits are really important with this, aren't they? If it becomes what it as you say, it's it's one of those things where if somebody turns around and says, We need to make we need to get our documentation up to date, and everybody rushes around and starts doing it. Yep. And then it you know, the the fatigue flags and and everybody gets fed up Doing it, and then you get to the point where somebody leaves and it's okay. Well, we'll you know, let's not worry about that. We'll get on with what we got on with, and then we'll just 2, 3 years later, somebody says, All our documentation's out of date. Let's get all our documentation out of the day. It it it just is a cycle. I've seen it 3 or 4 times of businesses I've been involved with there.
Stuart Webb [00:07:27]:
We we we we we haven't got this. Yeah. Learning, learning and a a a habit with, you know, Making it just part of whatever is going on, you just keep a note of of the latest thing and record record it. A a great example of this, I was working with a business recently, and there was a huge amount of effort to get a particular problem solved. And then somebody sort of was looking through the Wiki, and they came across an entry which was essentially, I guess the best thing could be described as, oh, this is a bit of a known problem. We ought to solve it and think about solving it at some stage. And I asked the question, Well, when did that get written? Well, the date stamp is this date, and I went, so let's get this right. We've just spent Nearly a quarter of $1,000,000 trying to solve a problem that was known about.
Stuart Webb [00:08:22]:
Yeah. But we'd all forgotten about it. And I went, didn't anybody think of Checking the Wiki before we started down this path, and they went, no. We kind of don't really bother too much about it. We just look at it when we're really, really stuck. It was one of those moments when I thought the habit of constantly sort of doing documentation has been lost in this organization, And it would have saved a good quarter of a 1000000. Yeah. We would have we would have been 4 weeks ahead of schedule had we not spent 4 weeks Forgetting that there was some documentation and not even bothering to look at it.
Stuart Webb [00:08:55]:
A horrible experience.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:08:56]:
It's it's, it's very Basic, basic skill in some ways. I mean, we're we and we assume, our workforce knows how to do it correctly. My Experience as a business owner and consultant, is is actually it's the contrary. It's very few people that really understand mechanics are doing it well, and that's actually why I do so much have so much effort writing and training others and, promoting best practices and habits around because my experience is that it's it's not as well done or understood as a skill, and it and it does take work. It's not something like breathing. Not every you're not gonna just hire experienced people, and they necessarily are great at it.
Stuart Webb [00:09:43]:
I'm just making a note of, of things that I need to remember in the future, Adrianne, to Check. Come back to. Listen. You must have some valuable free advice that you, that you you could give to the audience listening at the moment. What what would that be? And I I think there is A an interesting, download that I can refer to now, which I'll show on screen.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:10:03]:
Sure. There's a download here. So my book, I'm gonna I'm gonna do,
Stuart Webb [00:10:09]:
this to James.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:10:10]:
Oh, I'm just going the wrong way.
Stuart Webb [00:10:11]:
I went right
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:10:15]:
for smarter organizations. So it's actually don't I I don't wanna freak out your audience that it's a book on documentation. It's actually a fun read. It's much more, aligned with solving business problems. That's actually how I view documentation. It's not just a exercise you put on the shelf. It's it's really about solving problem. That's what I That's what I do for a client.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:10:35]:
Whether a client is going public or it is or you're stuck in a vortex of meetings or you have, Peter is retiring, and he built your systems from scratch 15 years ago. I mean, there's so many different scenarios which you apply documentation to, and I Truly believe that it's just a tool for problem solving, also a set of skills that you carry your entire career, and and in your life as well. So my book is structured along these 6 steps, of of capture, structure, Present, which is about writing and and visualization, communicate, store and leverage, and lead and innovate, and, I give Tips, and skills along each of these things. So my download will give your audience a bit of a flavor for some of these techniques, and if you're interested more, certainly check them out in the book. I mean, I would say if if I could leave your audience with One very simple technique in documentation, that is no technology required, no fancy education, and they will get their money's worth from, joining your, this this podcast today, is the 24 hour rule, and that is a very simple it's actually I believe the golden rule of documentation is that you have To process, you have to do something with information within 24 hours of either hearing it or even have it it can be applied to ideas as well. The 20 the 24 hour rule, is is the again, golden rule documentation, also a great productivity tip. One of the worst losses of of good of knowledge, momentum on projects, opportunity comes within 24 hours. We don't we are really good at processing information in 24 hours.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:12:32]:
But if you really wait past that window, Your short term memory and your your energetic connection to that information starts dropping. So I'm sure, Stuart, you've been to meetings. Everyone Came out with brilliant ideas and, all this they solved the world, and then they they just head out for the weekend and really forget to action anything. Those are Very classic examples of how good information opportunity momentum gets lost because we don't We don't process it effectively. And in my experience is a lot of great information is lost within That that 24 hour window. Certainly, meetings is a great example, but you can apply it to business I mean, sales. It's usually when you don't When you don't follow-up on a sales opportunity or even process it or connect with someone you met at a conference, you are your likelihood of doing that diminishes actually quite rapidly in 24 hours. So it's a very different take on how documentation is usually so Formal and, so, corporate, but this is a this is a new take, of driving better habits will change Change your documentation across the board in so many different areas of your business.
Stuart Webb [00:13:48]:
I like it very much. I agree. I really do. I really do. Was there a particular, book or experience or course or something which really sort of got you into understanding the the the value of commendation in in a in an organization?
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:14:05]:
I I actually wrote the book because I thought there was A hole in the market. I've again, I I as a I'm a I'm a CPA. I started, your it's and it's a very documentation, patient, intensive career, actually. You do need to loan your auditor, or you you have to you have to know the document. And, usually, you're plunked. And I my experience is you're plunked into, into the work world. People expect to do how to do it. And I actually remember it really drowning, When I worked for I worked for a lot of banks and all the just sea of documentation.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:14:43]:
I I remember not actually having a good grasp on it, So I was very motivated to write a book that I think would be helpful, but it it it would be helpful for people new in their career, but also really all levels. I've I mean, certainly, it it's it's almost, a it it's levels the playing field, really. It's not everyone Almost it doesn't matter if you're a senior executive or, just starting your career. We could all benefit from some of these best practices. The the book actually draws from the worlds of information management, organizational design, which is effectively better process, and And productivity, personal productivity, is kind of a smooshing together of these 3 disciplines, and, actually, that's why That intersection is really where this world, I call it dynamic documentation, is defined. I I would say I mean, one big influence is David Allen's getting things done. It is, and he's influenced a lot of people. He he really that productivity component, he's the one who Really kicked it off.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:15:45]:
There's been a lot of great productivity books since then, personal productivity, but I would his is still This is still kind of the the kickoff about just over 20 years ago of that new discipline, which is so needed in today's work world. We do we do need Teach people how to be more productive.
Stuart Webb [00:16:04]:
Absolutely great. Look. We're reaching towards the end of the, for the interview. Adrian, I really thank you for spending some time with us, but But there must be 1 question that's currently, currently keeping you, keeping on the edge of your seat thinking, why hasn't he asked me about? And so, therefore, I'm gonna ask you now, What's the question I should have asked you, which I I haven't yet? And then, obviously, you have to answer it because otherwise, we'll all be going away wondering why it is we didn't get a good answer to that question. So What is that 1 question that I haven't yet asked that you'd like me to?
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:16:34]:
The oh, wow. That's a hard question, Stuart. You can ask me to
Stuart Webb [00:16:37]:
I like to I like to leave the hard questions for other people to, to ask as well as answer, Adrian. That's, that's that's my that's my secret of my success.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:16:45]:
You can ask me, What's the simp my favorite simple framework for document I know it's a very question, and I'll I'll I'll, I I have lots of
Stuart Webb [00:16:55]:
people
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:16:55]:
to ask me, but yes.
Stuart Webb [00:16:57]:
Please give us that description.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:16:59]:
Alright. I'll give another simple this is also very helpful for your audience, and I use it extensively in my training is that documentation has been traditionally viewed as big d documentation. That means, like, Policies, records, formal, big systems, transform big big initiatives like that. Documentation is equally about little d, everyday disciplines and habits that we talked about, including the 24 hour rule, How we take notes, how we store things regularly, how we can write, how we communicate. To have great documentation, you need to balance Big d and little d. You can you can implement the fanciest sales system in the world, but if your sales team doesn't have the habit of recording sales prospects, it's not gonna fly. I vote so I'm a huge believer. My very simple framework is that you keep you Basically have to keep the 2 in balance, big d and little d, to have very successful initiatives, projects, and organizations as well.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:18:07]:
So I'll just leave with that last little framework easy framework for your audience.
Stuart Webb [00:18:13]:
Adrian, I happen to love that, and it reminds me. Just gonna give a very real example. I led, I led 1 business that was currently in undergoing a huge amount of, trouble. The, the the problems were were myriad, but one of the major problems I had to solve was the fact that their cash flow was poor. And the the the one of the keys to solving their cash flow was to discover that these salespeople Captured most of their sales on bits of paper and then uploaded them to the computer system when they got back into the office. And they were traveling, So they would have what I call what I eventually came to call briefcase time. That was orders that were ready that customers wanted to pay for In a brief case for 1, 2, or possibly even 3 weeks, by which time the customer had even forgotten they'd made the order And then we cancel it when they saw it come through on an email because they thought it was no longer an order or it was a duplicate. And that was one of the major problems that that business had, and all we had to do was get them to upload it on a slightly more regular basis than leave it in their briefcase for 3 weeks.
Stuart Webb [00:19:23]:
And the 24 hour rule became an absolutely critical rule for us. All orders from paper into system Improper documentation so that we actually understood what the order was within 24 hours. You're absolutely right. Big d and little d, Absolutely critical to every organization. I love that. I'm gonna be starting to I'll steal that from you if that's okay with you. Okay. Yeah.
Stuart Webb [00:19:43]:
Absolutely. Big d and little d or
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:19:45]:
You can talk
Stuart Webb [00:19:46]:
day long.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:19:46]:
Big d, little c, you can use it you can use it in different capacities, but they do always have to be in balance. And we talk a lot about big d, so I'm Bringing a lot more attention to those little d habits, skills, and
Stuart Webb [00:19:58]:
different ones. Brilliant. Adrian, look. This has been a really fascinating discussion, And I think you've brought documentation to life, which I know is not something which I expected people to be hearing from me because documentation is not something that most businesses find themselves thinking It's a good use of their time. It's a critical use of their time if they wanna grow, critical use of their time if they wanna avoid some of the problems you've been saying. Look. We're we're reaching the end, but if you would like to get on to our newsletter list so that you get to hear about brilliant interviews With people like Adrian so that you can participate by asking questions when we're live or by being aware of the recordings when they come out on podcast form on Apple Spotify. Here's the link you go to.
Stuart Webb [00:20:39]:
You go to httpscolonforward/forward/link.thecompleteapproach. That's thecompleteapproach word.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. Get on that newsletter list, get to hear about great people like Adrian who are coming up, and about the brilliant sort of things that you'll hear When you see Adrian's, notes coming out, because I'll link to that book and I'll link to her 6 steps, a free download. Adrian, this has been absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate you coming to us all the way from, from Calgary. I guess it's still nice and warm there at the moment.
Stuart Webb [00:21:19]:
I've been to Calgary, and I know it could get a little cold. But I guess for
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:21:23]:
a moment,
Stuart Webb [00:21:24]:
it's still up.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:21:26]:
Adrianne, thanks.
Stuart Webb [00:21:28]:
Thank you so much. You're gonna play us out, and then, we'll Speak to you again soon.
Adrienne Bellehumeur [00:21:33]:
Thank you.

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