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As an international correspondent for NPR, Gregory Warner has lived and worked in some of the highest conflict areas in recent memory. He has climbed mountains with smugglers in Pakistan for This American Life, descended into illegal mineshafts in the Democratic Republic of Congo for Marketplace's "Working" series, and lugged his accordion across Afghanistan on the trail of the "Afghan Elvis" for Radiolab. On one occasion, while covering the terror attacks in Nairobi, he found himself in the middle of a coup. To save his own life, he had to hide in a large vase until the fighting subsided.
Greg was named a Poynter Fellow in Journalism at Yale and received a Peabody Award for his journalism work. His podcast, Rough Translation, was named one of the New York Times’s Top 10 podcasts of 2021. Last season, he ran a series of surprising stories about workplaces and work cultures around the world. Today, he joins us on Work For Humans to discuss those stories.
In this episode, Dart and Gregory discuss:
- The power of storytelling through a local’s perspective
- Cultural norms, societal pressures, and value clashes around the world
- Chinese workers protesting work through slacking
- How crisis, government, and our parents shape workplace culture
- South Korea’s work trend of adopting English first names
- How countries brand themselves, and how this trickles down to work
- The exportation of Silicon Valley's work culture
- Jobs like truck driving that can push one into solitude
- The danger of hearing from a narrow set of international voices
- And other topics...
Gregory Warner has been an international correspondent for NPR for over a decade. As the host and creator of the NPR podcast Rough Translation, he has lived around the world and in conflict zones like Afghanistan, Ukraine, and Rwanda. Gregory was named a Poynter Fellow in Journalism at Yale and has received various awards for his journalism work, including a Peabody Award. Rough Translation unpacks cultural norms, issues, and shifts close to home from a continent away. The podcast has received multiple awards from the Overseas Press Club and was named one of the New York Times’s Top 10 podcasts of 2021.
Resources Mentioned:
Rough Translation podcast: https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510324/rough-translation
Slackers@Work: A Song for the Exhausted podcast episode: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/31/1102281666/slackers-work-a-song-for-the-exhausted
Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell: https://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017930
Connect with Gregory:
Around the World in 85 Days substack: https://aroundtheworldin85days.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/radiogrego/Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
After 20 years of managing multimillion-dollar projects for Fortune 500 companies, Mike Hess faced a troubling reality: he was often labeled as the "token blind guy." Despite developing invaluable skills through his blindness, he was disturbed by the high unemployment rates among fellow disabled professionals. Determined to break down corporate stigma, he founded the Blind Institute of Technology. Now, Mike is showing organizations how to access the unmatched potential of disabled professionals, bridging the gap between talent and opportunity.
Mike Hess is the Founder and Executive Director at the Blind Institute of Technology (BIT), a non-profit dedicated to improving employment opportunities for professionals with disabilities through accessible technology and inclusive hiring practices.
In this episode, Dart and Mike discuss:
- The Blind Institute of Technology
- Inclusive design and accessibility
- Employment challenges for disabled professionals
- Common misconceptions about disabilities in the workplace
- The return on investment of hiring disabled employees
- Bridging the digital divide and achieving digital equity
- Generative AI for enhancing accessibility
- Tackling social discomfort around disabilities
- And other topics…
Mike Hess is the Founder and Executive Director at the Blind Institute of Technology (BIT), a non-profit dedicated to improving employment opportunities for professionals with disabilities through accessible technology and inclusive hiring practices. As a blind tech veteran with over two decades of experience managing 7-figure projects for Fortune 500 companies, Mike helps organizations build inclusive workplaces that capitalize on the strengths of disabled professionals. His initiatives at BIT include workforce development programs and partnerships that enhance diversity, equity, and accessibility.
Mike has been recognized in various media outlets and has received notable awards, including the 2017 Martin Luther King, Jr. Business Award and the 2019 GlobalMindED Inclusive Leader Award. His work with BIT has led to presentations at major tech conferences, and he co-hosts the podcast Choose Inclusion. Additionally, he developed EdgGuide, a system designed to enhance independent navigation in public spaces for blind and visually impaired individuals.
Resources mentioned:
Hidden Potential, by Mike Hess: https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Potential-Science-Achieving-Greater/dp/0593653149
Connect with Mike:
www.blindIT.orgWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
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The philosophy behind HR and our way of working predates most of the tools we use. While companies focus on sales and productivity, most neglect to measure one of the largest sources of value within the organization – the employee experience. Jessica Zwaan has made it her mission to teach executives and their companies how to transform the employee experience using product management principles, maximizing value for all stakeholders involved.
Jessica Zwaan is the author of Built for People, the current Chief Operating Officer of Whereby, and a former COO advisor for clients like Soundcloud, Talentful, and Bolt, among others.
In this episode, Dart and Jessica discuss:
- The 3 things every company sells
- Distinctions between people operations and human operations
- Viewing work as a product and determining its value
- Tracking the cost versus value of employees
- The 3 aspects employees want out of their work
- Value vs. volume when it comes to employees
- 2 maxims of product management applicable to HR
- And other topics…
Jessica Zwaan is an author, speaker, and early-stage start-up executive. She is the current Chief Operating Officer of Whereby and a former COO advisor for clients like Soundcloud, Talentful, and Bolt, among others. Her latest book, Built for People, helps teach organizations and leadership how to transform the employee experience using product management principles.
With a background in operations, people, and talent, Jessica’s work has spanned across three continents. Jessica holds a First-Class Honours law degree from the University of Law in London. She is an international panelist and speaker and also hosts the podcast “There's This Thing at Work.”
Resources mentioned:
Built for People, by Jessica Zwaan: https://www.amazon.com/Built-People-Experience-Management-Principles/dp/1398608025
The Book of the Courtier, by Baldesar Castiglione: https://www.amazon.com/Book-Courtier-Baldesar-Castiglione/dp/1519086954
The Experience Economy, by Joseph Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, by Thomas Kuhn: https://www.amazon.com/Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-50th-Anniversary/dp/0226458121
The Good Enough Job, by Simone Stolzoff: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Enough-Job-Reclaiming-Life/dp/059353896X
Connect with Jessica:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicamayzwaan/
www.jessicamayzwaan.comWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
In a rapidly evolving job market shaped by post-pandemic shifts, AI advancements, and the rise of remote work, competition for good jobs is fiercer than ever. Standing out and strategically positioning yourself is no longer optional – it’s essential.
For over 25 years, Phyl Terry has been helping people build exceptional companies and careers. As the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, a consultancy that fosters knowledge-sharing among senior executives, Phyl leverages his experience coaching leaders at top firms to guide individuals in navigating today’s complex job market. His approach centers on applying product management principles to build intentional, sustainable career paths.
Topics Include:
- Applying product management to job searching
- The importance of candidate market fit
- How to conduct a listening tour for feedback
- Building a support network with job search councils
- Emotional challenges of the job search process
- Strategies for negotiating job offers
- Understanding psychological safety in job hunting
- Avoiding "rebound jobs" and finding the right role
- Phyl's experiences coaching senior executives at Google and Amazon
- The impact of gratitude and vulnerability on the job search
- And other topics...
Phyl Terry is the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, a consultancy that helps senior executives share knowledge and solve challenges in a collaborative, cross-company environment. With over two decades of experience in coaching leaders at top companies like Google and Amazon, Phyl is a pioneer in customer experience and product management. His latest book, Never Search Alone, applies his expertise in product management to career development, encouraging job seekers to approach their careers strategically, as if they were marketing a product.
Resources Mentioned:
Never Search Alone by Phyl Terry: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Search-Alone-Seekers-Playbook/dp/B0B9Q9YDQ5
Customers Included by Phyl Terry: https://www.amazon.com/Customers-Included-Transform-Products-Companies/dp/0979368111
Connect with Phyl:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/phylterry/
Website: phyl.org
Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Joe Pine was the first to identify many of the trends that have animated business for the last two decades, including the trend away from simple mass production to mass customization, and the emergence of the experience economy. Today, Joe joins us to discuss how those trends are influencing the future of work, and how companies might mass-customize experiences for employees.
Joe Pine is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and startups. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years.
In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:
- The progression of economic value
- The Experience Economy
- The current transformation economy
- How to customize a customer’s experience and promote transformation
- Brand authenticity
- Focusing on value vs. price
- The management style we need to create value
- How to revitalize a business
- The importance of company exploration and innovation
- And more…
Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. Joe is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP and a lecturer at Columbia University. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years.
Joe serves as a Senior Fellow with the Design Futures Council and the European Centre for the Experience Economy. He previously served as a Visiting Scholar with the MIT Design Lab, a professor at Duke University, and a manager with IBM. Joe has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and Harvard Business Review. His other published works include Infinite Possibility, Authenticity, and Mass Customization.
Resources Mentioned:
The Experience Economy, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975
Mass Customization, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Mass-Customization-Frontier-Business-Competition/dp/0875843727
Authenticity, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Authenticity-What-Consumers-Really-Want/dp/1591391458
Travel that Can Change Your Life, by Jeffrey Kotler: www.amazon.com/Travel-That-Change-Your-Life/dp/0787909416Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
AI is at the forefront of work, tech, and global development – and it’s here to stay. While there are ongoing dilemmas and fears surrounding the future of AI, renowned neuroscientist Vivienne Ming sees it differently. For over a decade, she has harnessed AI to enhance human potential, designing systems to treat her son’s diabetes, predict manic episodes in those with bipolar disorder, and reunite orphaned refugees with extended family members, among many other initiatives. Vivienne has emerged not only as a leading scientist in the field but also as a passionate advocate for using AI as a powerful tool to unlock human ability.
Vivienne Ming is a renowned theoretical neuroscientist and AI expert. She is the co-founder and CEO of the think tank Socos Labs, as well as chief scientist at Dionysus Digital Health and The Human Trust. Her research has been showcased on TEDx, The Financial Times, The Atlantic, the New York Times, BBC Radio 4, and NPR.
In this episode, Dart and Vivienne discuss:
- Vivienne’s diverse background in AI and research
- AI’s qualitative advantages over humans today
- How AI can predict and influence individual success
- Metalearning and perspective taking
- Building stronger teams and social networks with AI
- The moral limits of markets
- How minority opinions can reshape collective market intelligence
- And other topics…
Vivienne Ming is a renowned theoretical neuroscientist and artificial intelligence expert. As the co-founder and CEO of the think tank Socos Labs, she consults on AI, neuroscience, and education reform, exploring the future of human potential. She also serves as chief scientist at Dionysus Digital Health and The Human Trust. Her AI inventions have launched multiple companies and nonprofits, all centered on unlocking human potential. Vivienne’s research has been showcased on TEDx, The Financial Times, The Atlantic, the New York Times, BBC Radio 4, and NPR.
Vivienne received her B.S. in cognitive neuroscience from the University of California at San Diego and her M.S. and PhD in Psychology at Carnegie Mellon University. She then held a postdoctoral fellowship at Stanford and UC Berkeley, where she later joined as a research scientist and visiting scholar. Vivienne sits on boards of numerous companies and nonprofits including StartOut, The Palm Center, Cornerstone Capital, Platypus Institute, Shiftgig, Zoic Capital, and HUMM.
Resources mentioned:
How to Robot-Proof Your Kids, by Vivienne Ming: https://academy.socos.org/
Geek Heresy, by Kentaro Toyama: https://www.amazon.com/Geek-Heresy-Rescuing-Social-Technology/dp/161039528X
Connect with Vivienne:
www.socos.org
www.dionysushealth.com
www.optoceutics.com
www.thehumantrust.org
“The Tax on Being Different” video: https://glginsights.com/videos/decisions-in-hiring/Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
If there’s one thing the pandemic taught us, it’s that market disruptions can spell disaster for unprepared companies. Aaron McEwan, a behavioral scientist and futurist, is at the forefront of this challenge. As part of Gartner’s Rapid Response Market Sensing Team, he specializes in identifying workplace shifts before they happen. In this episode, Aaron shares how he leverages insights from his career and lessons learned during the pandemic to identify and tackle workplace shifts – before they happen.
Aaron McEwan is a prominent behavioral scientist, psychologist, and futurist based in Australia. He currently is the Vice President of Research & Advisory for Gartner's HR Practice, providing strategic insights on talent management and the future of work to leading global companies.
In this episode, Dart and Aaron discuss:
- Gartner’s Rapid Response Market Sensing Team
- Market sensing and identifying trends
- The largest market challenges since the pandemic
- Social movements that are starting to bubble
- Social media-driven employee activism
- Early detection of workforce disruptions
- Rapid responses to opportunities and threats
- Signals of reemergent labor activism
- And other topics…
Aaron McEwan is a prominent behavioral scientist, psychologist, and futurist based in Australia. He currently serves as the Vice President of Research & Advisory for Gartner's HR Practice, providing strategic insights on talent management and the future of work to leading global companies. Recognized as a Top 100 Global HR Influencer, Aaron emphasizes evidence-based practices that help organizations optimize performance and adapt to changing work environments.
Aaron is also a Fellow of the Australian Human Resources Institute and an Associate of Macquarie University's Centre for Workforce Futures. He has lectured at several universities, including the University of NSW and the University of Queensland. His interdisciplinary approach often draws from his background in music, where he performed and wrote original pieces, applying lessons from that experience to leadership and teamwork in organizational settings.
Resources mentioned:
The Black Swan, by Nassim Nicholas Taleb: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Swan-Improbable-Robustness-Fragility/dp/081297381X
Connect with Aaron:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronmcewan
Smarter with Gartner: https://www.gartner.com.au/en/smarterwithgartnerWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
As AI and automation reshape the workforce, the traditional way we pass down critical skills is under threat. Junior workers are losing the opportunity to learn directly from experienced mentors, putting essential human abilities at risk. Matt Beane, a leading researcher in machine intelligence, has spent a decade investigating this problem. In his latest book, The Skill Code, Beane uncovers the hidden dynamics of expert-novice relationships and explains why preserving these bonds is crucial for thriving in a tech-driven world.
Matt Beane is an assistant professor at UC Santa Barbara, known for his groundbreaking research on the impact of robotics in the workplace. He holds a PhD from MIT and has delivered a TED talk with over 1.8 million views. His latest book, The Skill Code, highlights the importance and process of preserving human skills in the age of AI and automation.
In this episode, Dart and Matt discuss:
- The impact of tech on workplace learning
- Technology management programs
- Whether tech shapes behavior or vice versa
- Using tech for scale development
- The difference between knowledge and skill
- Challenges in developing skills in tech-driven environments
- Using positive deviance to grow at work
- Human capital development’s connection to productivity
- And other topics…
Matt Beane is an author and assistant professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, in the Technology Management Program. He is known for his pioneering work on how robotics are transforming the workplace, particularly in the evolving relationship between humans and machines. His latest book, The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent Machines, explores how technology is reshaping the workforce and highlights the importance of preserving essential human skills as automation and AI become more prevalent.
Matt holds both a PhD and a Master’s in Management Research from MIT’s Sloan School of Management and is also a Digital Fellow at both Stanford and MIT. His work delves into how organizations and individuals adapt to intelligent technologies, focusing on sectors like healthcare and manufacturing. His research on robotic surgery was published in 2019 in Administrative Science Quarterly and Harvard Business Review, and his related TED talk has over 1.8 million views. Matt is also a regular contributor to popular outlets such as Wired, MIT’s Technology Review, TechCrunch, Forbes, and Robohub.
Resources mentioned:
The Skill Code, by Matt Beane: https://www.amazon.com/Skill-Code-Ability-Intelligent-Machines/dp/0063337797
“Don’t Let AI Dumb You Down,” by Matt Beane: https://www.wildworldofwork.org/p/dont-let-ai-dumb-you-down
How Buildings Learn, by Stewart Brand: https://www.amazon.com/How-Buildings-Learn-Happens-Theyre/dp/0140139966
Connect with Matt:
www.MattBeane.com
www.TheSkillCodeBook.com
X: @mattbeane
www.SkillBench.comWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
On Work for Humans, we explore what people truly seek from their work. A recurring theme we have found is the desire for puzzles to solve. In today’s episode, we chat with a puzzle expert and creator to uncover the elements that make a compelling puzzle and how we can apply these principles to create work that people genuinely love.
Jasen Robillard’s career has evolved from engineer to product specialist, geological mapper, and now, jigsaw puzzle creator. He is the founder of Stumpcraft, a Canadian jigsaw company that has gained recognition for its high-quality, artisanal puzzles, with Jasen's creative vision at the core of the company's success.
In this episode, Dart and Jasen discuss:
- The definition and attributes of a great puzzle
- How Jasen started StumpCraft
- The components of a compelling puzzle
- Puzzles, problems, and messes at work
- Work as an empathy playground
- Puzzle creation constraints
- Puzzles as part of the transformation economy
- And other topics…
Jasen Robillard is the founder of Stumpcraft, a premium wooden jigsaw puzzle company based in Canada. With a passion for intricate design and craftsmanship, Stumpcraft locally crafts each puzzle from sustainably sourced wood, incorporating unique, laser-cut pieces of Canadian fine art to challenge and delight puzzle enthusiasts. Jasen’s career journey led him from engineer to product specialist to geological mapping and, now, to jigsaw puzzles. Stumpcraft has gained recognition for its high-quality, artisanal puzzles, with Jasen's creative vision at the core of the company's success.
Resources mentioned:
Tools for Thinking, by Michael Pidd: https://www.amazon.com/Tools-Thinking-Modelling-Management-Science/dp/0470721421
“C.O.R.E. Attributes,” by Justin Gary: https://justingarydesign.substack.com/p/justin-gary-core-attributes
Connect with Jasen:
www.StumpCraft.com
Substack: https://substack.com/@jasenrobillardWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
From managing crises to ensuring compliance and safety, HR professionals are often the first responders in the workplace. Julie Turney, an HR specialist with over 15 years in the field, found herself so focused on supporting others that she became depleted and burned out.
Drawing from her journey and research, Julie now dedicates her work to creating positive workplace cultures and fostering employee engagement, especially in the face of burnout, compassion fatigue, and vicarious trauma.
Julie Turney is an HR specialist, TEDx Speaker, author, and Founder and CEO of HRatHeart Consulting Inc.
In this episode, Dart and Julie discuss:
- The major challenges of HR professionals
- HR as first responders in the workplace
- Self-care and support for HR professionals
- Things all HR employees need to know
- Self-forgiveness in the field
- The balance between HR, leadership, employees, and regulations
- Julie’s recommendation for improving HR contracts
- And other topics…
Julie Turney is an HR specialist, TEDx Speaker, author, and Founder and CEO of HRatHeart Consulting Inc. With over 15 years of HR experience, she is passionate about building positive workplace cultures and fostering employee engagement, especially in the face of burnout, compassion fatigue, and vicarious trauma. Julie focuses on talent management, employee development, and organizational change. Known for her ability to blend empathetic leadership with strategic HR practices, she helps companies navigate transitions while improving overall employee satisfaction.
Resources mentioned:
Confessions of an HR Pro, by Julie Turney: https://www.amazon.com/-/he/Julie-Turney/dp/0578905825
HR Sound Off podcast
Interview - Julie Turney X The Pivot Series
Connect with Julie:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjulieturney
www.HRatHeart.comWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Marty Cagan was ten years into his engineering career when he began questioning the purpose of his work. Frustrated with the products he was building, he wondered why they were necessary—but soon, he realized that asking "why" was the job of the product manager, not the engineer. So, he became one. Not just any product manager, but a leading expert in the field. Now, through Silicon Valley Product Group, Marty helps companies transform the work behind their products to build meaningful results.
Marty Cagan is a well-known product management expert, author, and partner at Silicon Valley Product Group (SVPG). With decades of experience, he has held leadership roles at companies like eBay, Netscape Communications, and HP.
In this episode, Dart and Marty discuss:
- Key elements of top product teams
- Best practices in product management
- Capabilities and responsibilities of a product manager
- The core principles of product culture
- How processes can kill companies
- 3 non-negotiables for product managers
- And other topics…
Marty Cagan is a well-known product management expert, author, and partner at Silicon Valley Product Group (SVPG). He is best known for his book Inspired: How to Create Products Customers Love, which is widely regarded as a key resource in product management. With decades of experience, including leadership roles at companies like eBay, Netscape Communications, and HP, Marty has a deep understanding of what it takes to build successful products. He is recognized for his emphasis on creating empowered product teams, focusing on solving customer problems, and building a strong product culture.
Marty is a graduate of the University of California at Santa Cruz and the Stanford University Executive Institute. His latest book, Transformed: Moving to the Product Operating Model, explores how successful product organizations operate and provides insights on transforming companies into ones that consistently deliver great products.
Resources mentioned:
Transformed, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Transformed-Becoming-Product-Driven-Company-Silicon/dp/1119697336
Empowered, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Empowered-Ordinary-People-Extraordinary-Products/dp/B08MV6VRGY
Inspired, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Inspired-Marty-Cagan-audiobook/dp/B07BDQVC45
The Song of Significance, by Seth Godin: https://www.amazon.com/Song-Significance-New-Manifesto-Teams/dp/B0BWPSHCXS
Loved, by Martina Lauchengco: https://www.amazon.com/Loved-Rethink-Marketing-Tech-Products/dp/B09WFRB5TX
Connect with Marty:
www.svpg.comWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Work for Humans has long advocated for employees to be seen as customers, but we've faced resistance from traditional programs that churn out MBAs focused on profits and the bottom line. This perspective overlooks a critical point: companies risk losing money and innovation if they don’t put employees at the center of their decisions.
In a surprising turn, author and professor Stephan Meier has partnered with Columbia Business School to release The Employee Advantage. Through detailed case studies, this book demonstrates how embracing an employee-centric approach leads to superior business outcomes.
Stephan Meier is a leading global expert at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. He is currently the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy and Chair of the Management Division at Columbia Business School.
In this episode, Dart and Stephan discuss:
- Key drivers of customer and employee centricity
- The reasons behind rising customer expectations
- Leadership mindsets for employee well-being
- Customers vs. employees in earnings calls
- Case studies of employee-centric models
- Lessons from employee segmentation
- The need for “just-right tasks” in the workplace
- The role of the manager in an employee-customer model
- And other topics…
Stephan Meier is a leading global expert at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. He is currently the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy and Chair of the Management Division at Columbia Business School. Stephan is also the author of The Employee Advantage, which demonstrates how employee-centric companies drive superior business outcomes.
With a master’s degree in history, economics, and political science, and a doctorate from the University of Zurich, Stephan’s research has been published in journals such as the American Economic Review and Management Science, as well as outlets like the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Bloomberg, and BBC. Prior to his tenure at Columbia, he was the first senior economist for the Center for Behavioral Economics and Decision-Making at the Federal Reserve Bank.
Resources mentioned:
The Employee Advantage, by Stephan Meier: https://www.amazon.com/Employee-Advantage-Putting-Workers-Business-ebook/dp/B0CTZCM238
Connect with Stephan:
www.StephanMeier.comWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Work for Humans has always been about designing with the employee in mind, but many designers mistakenly focus on objects rather than the actions those objects should create. This leads to falling back on traditional roles and routines when there is actually more choice out there. Inspired by the power of designing for action instead of things, WFH connected with Stephanie Goia and Melanie Kahl—two design strategists dedicated to human-centered organizational design. Together, they’re creating a pattern language library, offering a resource that encourages more choice and innovation to all designers.
In this episode, Dart, Stephanie, and Melanie discuss:
- Human-centered organizational design practice
- Pattern language in design
- Designing for verbs instead of things
- What is designable and what isn’t
- 5 key categories of pattern language
- Design lessons from education and biological systems
- Holding spaces for participatory design
- And other topics…
Stephanie Goia is a partner and lead design strategist at Future Work Design, a firm dedicated to transforming workplaces through innovative design. With over 15 years of experience in consulting and education, she specializes in organizational design and human-centered practices. Stephanie also serves as the Lab Director of EitherOrg and as an Executive MBA instructor at the University of Oregon, where she furthers her commitment to participatory design and systemic change.
Melanie Kahl is an innovation leader and strategist with over 15 years of experience designing programs and spaces that foster human flourishing. She previously launched Meta's first Community-in-Residence program and led projects with global organizations like the Gates Foundation and USAID. Melanie holds a degree from Northwestern University and is an adjunct professor at the School of Visual Arts and the Copenhagen Institute of Interaction Design.
Resources mentioned:
Seeing Like a State, by James Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Seeing-like-State-Certain-Condition/dp/0300078153
A Pattern Language, by Christopher Alexander: https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Language-Buildings-Construction-Environmental/dp/0195019199
Dark Matter Labs: https://darkmatterlabs.org/
The Edge of the Sea, by Rachel Carson: https://www.amazon.com/Edge-Sea-Rachel-Carson/dp/0395924960
Connect with Stephanie & Melanie:
www.futurework.design
www.eitherorg.org
Stephanie LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniegioia/
www.MelanieKahl.com
Melanie’s Instagram: @melanie_kahl
Melanie’s X: @melaniekahlWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Architecture has traditionally centered on buildings, often overlooking the most crucial element—people. Urban designer Blaine Merker sees this as a missed opportunity. As Partner, Director, and Head of Climate Action at the Gehl research consultancy, Blaine aims to shift the industry’s focus. By guiding companies to adopt community-centered design practices, he’s working to transform urban spaces, ensuring that people—not just structures—are at the heart of every project.
In this episode, Dart, Blaine, and Alice discuss:
- The origin and mission of Gehl
- Shaping behavior through empirical evidence and design
- Prioritizing people over buildings in architecture
- In-between spaces and why companies should invest in them
- The norms created by a space
- Designing for serendipity, connection, and collaboration
- Integrating ecology into corporate landscapes
- And other topics…
Blaine Merker is Partner, Director, and Head of Climate Action at Gehl, an urban design and research consultancy dedicated to enhancing urban environments for everyday people. At Gehl, Blaine leads the company’s private sector work, focusing on helping companies be good urban citizens. During his career, he has managed public and institutional portfolios, taught at the University of California, Berkeley, and led a landscape architectural practice. Prior to Gehl, Blaine was partner and founder of Rebar Art and Design Studio, where he combined art, design, and activism to transform urban spaces.
Alice Katter is a Work Culture & Community Designer and Consultant and founder of Out of Office Network, a pioneering research and design lab and hub.
Resources mentioned:
Rebar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebar_Art_and_Design_Studio
Insurgent Public Space: https://www.routledge.com/Insurgent-Public-Space-Guerrilla-Urbanism-and-the-Remaking-of-Contemporary-Cities/Hou/p/book/9780415779661
Rebar’s Absurd Tactics in Generous Urbanism: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/mono/10.4324/9780203093009-10/taking-place-rebar-absurd-tactics-generous-urbanism-jeffrey-hou
Life Between Buildings, by Jan Gehl: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Between-Buildings-Using-Public/dp/1597268275
Immersion, by Paul Zak: https://www.amazon.com/Immersion-Science-Extraordinary-Source-Happiness/dp/1544531958
How to Study Public Life, by Jan Gehl: https://www.amazon.com/How-Study-Public-Life-Gehl/dp/1610914236
Paved Paradise, by Henry Graber: https://www.amazon.com/Paved-Paradise-Parking-Explains-World/dp/B0BBXGL7QT/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1
Connect with Blaine:
www.GehlPeople.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blainemerker/Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Remote, hybrid, and from-home work options are here to stay, but there’s more to work flexibility than just location. Leadership advisor and author Brian Elliott has found that most employees want more control over their work, from when they work to how their success is measured; It’s time to redefine and fully embrace flexible work. In his recent book, How the Future Works, Brian provides a blueprint for using flexible work to truly unlock individual potential.
Brian Elliott has over two decades of experience successfully leading teams at companies like Google and Slack. He is a LinkedIn Top Voice, one of Forbes’ “Future of Work 50,” and the Executive Leader of Future Forum, a think tank that focuses on the future of work.
In this episode, Dart and Brian discuss:
- Changing leaders’ experiences around distributed work
- Defining the purpose behind a company’s work style
- Strategies to level the playing field for employees
- Measuring outcomes based on teamwork
- How to create a culture of connection from any location
- Prioritizing schedule flexibility over geographic flexibility
- Demographic shifts in remote work
- And other topics…
Brian Elliott is an esteemed author, speaker, and leadership advisor, currently serving as the Executive Leader of Future Forum, a think tank that focuses on the future of work. With almost three decades of experience in leadership, he has successfully led teams and built companies both as a startup CEO and as an executive at Google and Slack.
Brian holds degrees from Northwestern University and Harvard Business School. He is the bestselling author of How the Future Works, a LinkedIn Top Voice, and has been recognized as one of Forbes’ “Future of Work 50.” His insights have been featured in publications such as Fortune, Harvard Business Review, and Time.
Resources mentioned:
How the Future Works, by Brian Elliott: https://www.amazon.com/How-Future-Works-Leading-Flexible-ebook/dp/B09YN2J6XZ
Connect with Brian:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belliott/
www.FutureForum.comWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Hundreds of thousands of college graduates were promised that more learning meant more earning – but they’re now facing a harsh new reality. AI, outsourcing, and a shifting economy have created an oversupply of educated workers, leading to widespread feelings of betrayal and crushing student debt. Human capital is not delivering on its promise.
Phillip Brown, a distinguished sociologist, author, and professor, is on a mission to redefine human capital in an age of new technology and limited quality jobs. In his latest book, Death to Human Capital, he calls for a new paradigm to rethink how we view labor supply, demand, and returns.
Phillip is a Distinguished Research Professor at Cardiff University. He has authored 17 books and more than 100 publications, critically examining the relationship between education, social mobility, and economic inequality on a global scale.
In this episode, Dart and Phil discuss:
- The rise and false promise of human capital theory
- The oversupply of graduates and economic betrayal
- Outsourcing knowledge work and the impact of AI
- Labor scarcity vs. job scarcity
- The definition of a quality job
- The new paradigm
- Rethinking labor supply, demand, and returns
- Phil’s specific policy recommendations
- And other topics…
Phillip Brown is a British sociologist, author, and Distinguished Research Professor at Cardiff University. With over three decades of experience, his work critically examines the relationship between education, social mobility, and economic inequality on a global scale. His latest book, The Death of Human Capital, argues against the false promise of human capital theory and redefines it in the context of AI, outsourcing, and job quality.
Phillip holds a Ph.D. from Swansea University and is a Fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences. He has authored 17 books and over 100 articles and reports, and has delivered keynote presentations in over 17 countries, including at the World Bank, International Labour Organization, and European Union.
Resources mentioned:
The Death of Human Capital, by Phillip Brown: https://www.amazon.com/Death-Human-Capital-Promise-Disruption/dp/0190644303
The Global Auction, by Phillip Brown: https://www.amazon.com/Global-Auction-Promises-Education-Incomes/dp/0199731683/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&sr=1-1
Connect with Phil:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillip-brown-23b60316/?originalSubdomain=uk
Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=O9LeQNwAAAAJ&hl=enWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
We tend to use the word ritual to talk about everyday routines. For instance, we have our ritualistic cup of coffee in the morning. But rituals are much more than just repetitive actions. True rituals carry deep meaning, emotion, and a promise of transformation.
As a professional ritual designer, Tiu De Haan has designed rituals in countless forms. She took on the heavy task of designing a ritual to unite families of organ donors with organ recipients. She designed a ritual to help a man reach peace with the death of his twin brother who died at birth. And she's created rituals to help teams bond, think outside the box, and do their best work.
Tiu De Haan is a workshop facilitator, inspirational speaker, consultant, curator, and ritual designer. She has created and facilitated experiential workshops for almost two decades, working with clients like Google, Nike, the Ministry of Justice, Bank of America, and BBC.
In this episode, Dart and Tiu discuss:
- How to design a meaningful ritual
- The difference between a habit, routine, and ritual
- How rituals can inspire creativity and new ideas
- The components of effective rituals
- Smaller rituals you can incorporate at work
- Team-building rituals
- The role of the “keeper of the rituals” at work
- And other topics…
Tiu De Haan is a workshop facilitator, curator, inspirational speaker, and ritual designer. She has created and facilitated experiential workshops for over 17 years, including her year-long mentorship program called The Path. As a ritual designer and consultant, she has worked with clients like Google, Nike, the Ministry of Justice, L’Oréal, Bank of America, the Centre for Quantum Photonics at Bristol University, and BBC, among others.
Connect with Tiu:
www.Tiudehaan.comWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
In the modern workplace, constant change is the norm. One week, teams are navigating a new project management system; the next, they need to adapt to a new organizational chart. Even office layouts seem to change overnight to match the company’s latest pivot. While change may be the new normal, leadership expert Ashley Goodall questions its true benefits. In his latest book, The Problem with Change, he highlights the pitfalls of constant change and advocates for the pursuit of stability instead.
Ashley Goodall is a leadership expert, consultant, and author who has spent his career exploring large organizations from the inside out. He is the former Senior Vice President at Cisco and former Director and Chief Learning Officer at Deloitte.
In this episode, Dart and Ashley discuss:
- Cognitive and emotional effects of constant workplace change
- Consultants’ role in creating change
- The unique world of an executive
- Improving something versus changing everything
- Differences between fear and anxiety at work
- The psychological impacts of layoffs
- The fundamental task of leadership
- HR’s role as the bridge between leaders and the frontline
- Measuring performance without ratings
- And other topics…
Ashley Goodall is a leadership expert, consultant, and author who has spent his career exploring large organizations from the inside out. Ashley most recently served as former Senior Vice President at Cisco, where he led organizations focused on leadership, teams, and research. Prior to Cisco, he also served as Director and Chief Learning Officer at Deloitte.
Ashley’s books include Nine Lies About Work and The Problem with Change, the former of which was selected as one of Amazon’s best business and leadership books during its release year. Ashley has also written for Harvard Business Review, including the most popular article of 2019, “The Feedback Fallacy.” He holds his BA in Music from the University of Oxford and his MBA from the Columbia Business School.
Resources mentioned:
The Problem with Change, by Ashley Goodall: https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Change-Essential-Nature-Performance/dp/0316560278
The Safety Signal Hypothesis by Martin Seligman and Yitzchak Binik: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9781003150404-7/safety-signal-hypothesis-martin-seligman-yitzchak-binik
The Anatomy of Genres, by John Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227
Connect with Ashley:
www.AshleyGoodall.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleygoodall/Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
Industrial capitalism has treated workers like marionettes breaking down work into discreet, disconnected, repeatable actions. It loves uniformity and people who do what they're told. Seth Godin’s new book, The Song of Significance, challenges us to break free of these limiting mental models, many of which are still baked into how we work.
Seth Godin is an author, entrepreneur, and marketing expert whose past clients include AOL, Microsoft, Penguin, and Random House. His 20 bestselling books, Ted Talks, personal blog, and altMBA program have empowered millions of professionals to drive meaningful change at work.
In this episode, Dart and Seth discuss:
- The Song of Significance
- Choosing and creating jobs of value instead of production
- Eliminating drudgery from work
- How the industrial revolution shaped work, education, and society
- The power of small connections and communities in marketing
- False proxies in the hiring process
- The hiring method that lowers turnover and increases productivity
- Criticizing work instead of the worker
- And other topics…
Seth Godin is a highly influential author, entrepreneur, and marketing expert whose achievements have transformed how we think about business and personal development. His company, Yoyodyne, created the first ethical commercial email and was later sold to Yahoo!, where Seth became the VP of Direct Marketing. He later founded several other successful companies, working with clients such as AOL, Microsoft, Penguin, and Random House.
Seth has written 20 bestselling books translated into more than 35 languages, including Permission Marketing, Purple Cow, and, most recently, The Song of Significance. His TED Talks and personal blog have amassed millions of views, and his online workshop, altMBA, has empowered thousands of professionals to drive meaningful change in their industries. He is also the founding editor of The Carbon Almanac, a global almanac on climate created by hundreds of volunteers from over 40 countries.
Resources Mentioned:
The Song of Significance, by Seth Godin: https://www.amazon.com/Song-Significance-New-Manifesto-Teams/dp/0593715543
The Ministry for the Future, by Kim Stanley Robinson: https://www.amazon.com/Ministry-Future-Kim-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0316300136
The Carbon Almanac, by Seth Godin and The Carbon Almanac Network: https://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Almanac-Its-Not-Late/dp/B09XBYL7J3
Connect with Seth:
Blog: https://seths.blog/
AI Bot: https://seths.blog/bot/
Seth’s latest book: https://seths.blog/song/Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. -
The last two financial crises resulted in recessions, financial market instability, and high unemployment rates, but one group of companies proved resilient. Benefit Corporations – businesses that balance profit with social and environmental impact – experienced crisis attrition rates of less than 5%. Bart Houlahan, a co-founder of B Lab, joins Work for Humans to share why companies that invest in people outperform in their field.
Bart Houlahan is Partner at Irrational Capital, the first firm to quantitatively measure the impact of corporate culture on a company’s stock price. He is also co-founder of B Lab, a nonprofit organization that seeks to solve social and environmental problems while driving profitability. Currently, there are over 6,000 certified B Corporations across 150 industries in 80+ countries.
In this episode, Dart and Bart discuss:
- The foundation and purpose behind Irrational Capital
- Why companies that treat people well outperform
- Corporate culture as a new investment factor
- Bart’s take on the rise and fall of AND 1
- The 3 main components of a Benefit Corporation
- How B Corps establish strong governance
- The long-term benefits of stakeholder capitalism
- And other topics…
Bart Houlahan is Partner at Irrational Capital and one of the co-founders of B Lab, a nonprofit organization that seeks to solve social and environmental problems while driving profitability. Currently, there are over 6,000 certified B Corporations across 150 industries in over 80 countries. Prior to B Lab, Bart was president at AND 1, where he helped to finance, operate, and scale the business to $250 MM in brand revenues while focusing on company values and corporate culture.
Bart is a graduate of Stanford University. During his career, he was also an investment banker with Stonebridge Associated, BNY Associates, and Prudential-Bache Securities. Bart is a Henry Crown Fellow of the Aspen Institute and serves as an Advisory Board Member of the Fuqua Center for the Advancement of Social Entrepreneurship (CASE), the Wharton Impact Investing Initiative, and the G8 Impact Measurement Working Group.
Connect with Bart:
B Lab: www.bcorporation.net
Irrational Capital: www.irrational.capitalWork with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. - Visa fler
