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  • The role of the PMM is evolving and requires us to always adapt and be knowledgeable on new tech and initiatives. It can make a difference between a product marketer who is valuable and stack influence vs. someone who’s on the layoff list.

    Someone who keeps pushing the limit of practical product marketing and leveraging projects short-cuts to ship more is Jess Petrella, Senior Product Marketing Manager (PMM) at ZayZoon, and she has an amazing take on becoming an efficient PMM.

    We discussed how AI can enhance the PMMs' capacity to analyze data and analyze opportunities, the importance of proximity with product teams, and the skills necessary for PMMs to co-create product roadmaps.

    The episode provides practical advice for aspiring PMMs and reflects on how to navigate better the challenges of the profession, from someone who just built the function from scratch. We talk about:

    Use AI for quicker data synthesis and opportunity analysis

    Build advocacy skills to align with other teams

    Strengthen connections with product teams

    Collaborate on roadmaps to grow your role

    Gain skills to impact product decisions

    Simplify tasks with AI to increase output

    Discover how you can build more influence as a PMM with the help of AI!


    Timespan:

    01:04 Discussing Product Marketing and Launches

    02:16 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?

    03:15 The Evolution of Product Marketing

    05:21 Building Influence as a Product Marketer

    17:43 Leveraging AI in Product Marketing

    28:53 Conclusion and Farewell

    Show Notes:

    Jess LinkedIn

    https://pmmops.com/


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  • The worst thing about being a PMM is not having to launch a new product within 2 weeks, or drowning in sales decks. It’s all sharing the same trauma that people don’t understand product marketing.

    We’ve seen a lot of movement on LinkedIn about PMMs sharing horror stories. Michele Nieberding even did a talk about it at PMA Boston.

    And we were lucky enough to have her sharing them on the pod, just in time for Halloween 💀 our FAVORITE HOLIDAY 🎃

    Michele, the director of product marketing at MetaRouter, spent almost a decade in product marketing and loves Halloween, we’re talking about:

    Combining new brands, products and segments

    Freemium to Screemium

    Failed launches and disastrous rebrands

    Product enforcement gone wrong

    A bunch of jokes and fun things

    Start feeling better about your role and discover horror stories for PMMs that would scare even ghouls and ghosts!

    Timespan:

    00:00 Introduction and Sponsorship

    01:02 Meet the Hosts

    01:28 Special Guest Introduction

    03:20 PMM Horror Stories: Introduction

    06:42 Horror Story 1: The Freemium Nightmare

    14:01 Horror Story 2: Enforcing Usage Limits

    19:30 The Sleep Sack Nightmare

    21:10 Customer Perspective on Luxury Baby Products

    22:03 Manufacturing and Packaging Woes

    24:26 A College Business Competition Fiasco

    25:54 The Real Estate App Pricing Disaster

    30:44 The Rebranding and Product Launch Debacle

    37:29 Closing Thoughts and Farewell

    Show Notes:

    Michele’s LinkedIn


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  • For PMMs, it can be difficult to have a good relationship with sales, especially in new roles.

    Win-loss analysis and interviews can be a good win when you see that close-lost column piling up on the CRM pipeline.

    But how can you take another responsibility on your to-do when you’re already swamped?

    Matthew Reeves, CEO and co-founder of GoldPan, runs a win-loss analysis agency. In this episode, he’s showing us:

    How to build rapport with sales teams

    The complexities of positioning and messaging

    Why you need both wins and losses for good research.

    Why information overload kill sales.

    The nuanced value of churn analysis.

    Hear also the very unique take of Matthew on if product marketers are marketers, we can’t say we heard this one yet!

    Timespan:

    00:00 Welcome to We're Not Marketers

    00:19 Introducing Matthew Reeves, CEO of GoldPan

    01:37 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?

    02:49 The Evolution and Challenges of Marketing

    12:21 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis

    21:31 Building Rapport Between Product Marketers and Sales

    34:25 Sales Missteps and Buyer Uncertainty

    34:59 Understanding Product Assessment

    35:34 The Role of Risk and Values in Buying Decisions

    37:01 Challenges in Product Marketing

    37:48 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis

    38:39 Switching Costs and Product Marketing

    40:34 Effective Sales Messaging

    43:14 The Buyer-Seller Dynamic

    50:06 The Value of Churn Analysis

    54:29 Bad Sales Experiences

    01:01:33 Closing Thoughts and Future Plans

    Show Notes:

    Matthew’s LinkedIn

    Goldpan website


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  • Get ready for some real talk about positioning! In this episode, we sit down with the queen of positioning herself, April Dunford. If your startup’s positioning feels a little “mushy” or your product is getting compared to everyone under the sun, this episode is for you. April shares her no-nonsense approach to tightening up your message and teaching your CEO why positioning isn’t just some abstract marketing concept—it’s the foundation of your success. Whether you’re battling internal buy-in or figuring out how to stand out in a crowded market, April’s got the answers (plus a few hilarious takes on toilets and camping). Here’s what you’re missing, by not listening:

    Is your product positioning “mushy”? Learn why vague messaging is killing your pitch—and how to fix it.

    The secret weapon for startups: April’s advice on involving sales and product teams in positioning.

    Why “actionable insights” aren’t really actionable: How to cut the jargon and speak your customer's language.

    CEO thinks their product positioning is fine? April’s roadmap to making them see the problem—without calling their baby ugly.

    Positioning vs. features: Why selling value over features is your ultimate key to success.

    Show Notes
    00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message

    01:05 Meet the Hosts and Guest Introduction

    01:39 April Dunford on Product Marketing

    03:25 The Role of Positioning in Startups

    09:17 Building Influence as a Product Marketer

    23:27 Fun and Games with April Dunford

    34:26 Discovering Catan: A Board Game Revelation

    35:00 Building Dreams: Choosing the Perfect Cottage Location

    36:10 Torture Chamber Round: Birds or Stars?

    38:42 The Cardinal Sins of Product Positioning

    43:33 Selling Platforms: Value Over Features

    01:00:17 The Art of Persuasive Writing in Marketing

    01:04:52 Career Advice for Product Marketers

    01:11:01 Engage with April Dunford: Books, Podcasts, and More

    Resources

    April Dunford LinkedIn

    April Dunford website

    April Dunford’s Positioning Podcast


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  • Dealing with the chaos of being a PMM while trying to balance the rest of your life? You’re not alone.

    In this candid episode of We're Not Marketers, Zach, Eric, and Gab dive into the realities of managing life as a Product Marketing Manager, whether you're in-house or fractional. From overwhelming work expectations to the struggle of balancing personal life, the team discusses how to protect your mental health while handling an always-on work culture. They share personal stories, tips like setting boundaries, removing work apps from phones, and practical advice on how to deal with burnout. If you're feeling the strain of managing your career, relationships, and self-care, this episode is a must-listen.

    Key takeaways include:

    Strategies to create separation between work and personal time (e.g., daily rituals, setting boundaries, Slack detox).

    Real-talk about burnout and why mental health shouldn’t be just a “corporate benefit.”

    Practical tips on saying “no” to unrealistic requests and protecting your productivity.

    How fractional PMMs handle the pressure of multiple clients while in-house PMMs navigate endless internal demands.

    Tune in to hear the team's perspectives on how to reclaim balance and stay sane as a PMM.


    Show Notes

    00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message

    01:02 The Challenges of Being a Product Marketer

    02:22 In-House vs. Fractional Product Marketing

    04:45 Balancing Work and Personal Life

    07:41 Setting Boundaries and Mental Health

    22:02 Productivity Tips and Techniques

    30:50 Conclusion and Final Thoughts


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  • In this episode of We're Not Marketers, we sit down with the one and only Jeff Chase, Director of Brand and Product Marketing at Vitally.io, who drops a major hot take—product marketers aren’t marketers (wait, what?!). But Jeff doesn’t stop there. He believes PMMs are the future leaders of marketing, and he’s got the experience and insights to back it up.

    Tune in as we dive into the evolving role of product marketers in B2B SaaS. From positioning and messaging to why PMMs have the potential to become CMOs, Jeff shares his journey and unique approach to blending product and brand marketing. We also tackle the age-old question: how can PMMs build better relationships with their brand teams?

    Whether you're a PMM ready to shake up your organization or just curious about where this role is headed, this convo is one you don’t want to miss:

    PMMs vs. Marketers: Jeff’s surprising take on why product marketers aren’t really marketers.

    The Future CMO Pipeline: Why Jeff believes product marketers are primed to become the next generation of marketing leaders.

    The Art of Brand Storytelling: How product marketers can elevate their influence by mastering brand marketing collaboration.

    Hiring Hacks: Jeff’s refreshing approach to recruitment, and why he believes hiring managers have a deeper responsibility than you think.

    Copycats Beware: How to stay a step ahead of competitors who love to swipe your messaging.

    Time Stamps

    00:00 Introduction and Host Intros

    00:56 Special Guest Introduction: Jeff

    02:02 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?

    04:35 The Future of Product Marketing

    08:55 Building Cross-Functional Relationships

    10:48 The Role of Brand Marketing

    14:30 Hiring and Leadership Insights

    36:21 Dealing with Competitors

    43:46 Conclusion and Sign-Off

    Show Notes

    Jeff Chase LinkedIn Profile


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  • In this episode, Jarod Greene, CMO of Vivint, shares his journey from teaching middle school math to Gartner analyst to CMO today and offers actionable advice for PMMs struggling to gain recognition. Learn how to use research, co-create with sales, and communicate your value to drive impactful product marketing strategies in your workplace.

    When you let Jarod cook (#lethimcook) and you’re gonna get…

    How teaching 7th graders prepared Jarod to lead B2B marketing strategy—and why it’s still the hardest job he’s ever done.

    The “magician” role of product marketers: Why being a chameleon is the ultimate superpower in your company (and how to harness it).

    Co-create with sales? Yes, please. The surprising reason your best sales reps should help write your next piece of content.

    Forget the committee—Jarod’s trick to stop internal fights over messaging using the one thing no one can argue with: Data.

    “I had no idea what PMM was 10 years ago” – how Jarod went from confused to CMO and why it could be your career roadmap too.

    Content without context = chaos. Jarod’s formula for why great content flops (and how to make it land every time).

    How to manage up, down, and sideways: Jarod’s guide to becoming a leader before you even get the title.

    Time Stamps

    00:00 We're Not Marketers (S3) - Jarod Greene

    01:00 Welcome to Season Three!

    01:46 Introducing Gerard Green

    03:01 From Teaching to Marketing

    05:15 The Role of Product Marketers

    07:15 Becoming a CMO

    18:03 Content with Context

    22:19 Co-Creating with Sales

    28:20 The Content Production Dilemma

    29:07 The Importance of Research in Marketing

    30:27 Primary vs. Secondary Research

    31:22 Leveraging Data for Decision Making

    39:43 Integrating AI in Marketing Strategies

    43:34 The Reality of Product Market Fit

    51:21 Upcoming Projects and Events

    Show Notes

    Jarod Greene LinkedIn Profile

    UNXPCTD - Explore way AI is revolutionizing B2B Sales


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  • There are many different flavors of product marketers, whether you’re in-house or fractional like our host, you need to be aware of your special sauce 😉

    The product marketing function is becoming more and more nuanced, so you need to know what you are good at and why these special skills matter with your expertise and work environment.

    Megan Pratt went from senior PMM to director of PMM and was one step away from a VP position before she decided to go full-time as a fractional PMM.

    Today, she’s coaching product marketers and helping companies as a fractional PMM. In this episode, we’re covering:

    Misconceptions we have about going fractional

    How to find your secret sauce as a PMM

    How to educate prospects on product marketing

    Learn how to say no without saying no

    Building your pipeline as a consultant

    Common gaps in product marketing

    So join us, whether you’re a fractional, or in-house hire, and learn about a true expert on how to say no.

    Timespan:

    00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Banter

    01:14 Introducing Special Guest Megan Pratt

    06:09 The Value of Product Marketing

    21:26 Personal Insights and Career Growth

    26:25 Transition to Fractional Work

    26:31 Challenges and Misconceptions of Going Fractional

    30:48 Messaging Best Practices

    31:13 Clarifying Roles and Responsibilities

    32:23 Setting Boundaries in Freelancing

    33:42 The Importance of Saying No

    36:34 Building a Freelance Pipeline

    50:56 Common Gaps in Product Marketing

    59:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

    Show Notes:

    Product Marketing House

    Megan’s LinkedIn


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  • After 29 episodes, we’re finally closing down our season 2 and we’re taking this opportunity to circle back on why PMMs are misunderstood today in B2B SaaS.

    Being misunderstood isn’t the problem, it’s the apathy from colleagues and management regarding our roles and responsibilities. But we should be proud of being misfits because it’s our uniqueness that can have a real impact on our jobs. All we need is more influence and less apathy.

    In this episode, we’re going back on why we started the pod, how we’re researching our market, find new episode topics, and a special way on how you can be on the pod for upcoming seasons:

    → The key takeaways from this season that every PMM should know
    → Our thoughts on the future of Product Marketing and what’s on the horizon
    → What is the misfit madness and how can you be a special guest

    Tune in for the last time of season 2, and enjoy a monthly break of not hearing us talk about product marketing 🙃

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  • Timeline:

    00:17 - Meet Emma Stratton: Life Coach and Messaging Expert

    03:03 - Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?

    06:45 - Embracing the Misfit Identity in Product Marketing

    12:15 - Handling Messaging Challenges and CEO Fears

    21:05 - Transitioning to Entrepreneurship: When is the Right Time?

    26:50 - Work-Life Harmony: Balancing Energy Drainers and Energizers

    32:35 - Avoiding Company Politics and Aligning Teams

    38:15 - Real-life Example: Messaging for an Australian Data Company

    45:07 - Emma’s Upcoming Book: Make It Punchy

    47:10 - Torture Chamber Game: Cringey Marketing Terms

    55:00 - Final Thoughts and Staying Connected with Emma

    Show Notes:

    Emma's book: Make It Punchy: How to Write Simple Tech Messaging That Wins Hearts, Minds, and Markets (Pre-order now)

    Punchy messaging newsletter

    Follow Emma Stratton on LinkedIn


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  • Timestamps:

    01:36 PMM jobs and LinkedIn trends.

    03:00 Discussion about job application experiences and interview etiquette.

    05:00 Gab shares a story about a go-to-market assignment.

    08:00 Eric shares a story about interviewing with a competitor.

    12:00 Zach shares a story about a poor recruiting experience.

    16:00 Eric discusses a job that ended up being a bad fit.

    19:00 Discussion on hiring practices and candidate experiences.

    22:00 Importance of clear expectations and roles in hiring.

    24:00 The value of specific hiring criteria and trust in the hiring process.

    27:00 The benefits of private communities for job searching.

    30:00 Gab's experience with irrelevant job postings.

    33:00 Eric and Zach discuss the value of consulting and contracting as a career approach.

    36:00 Final thoughts on hiring practices and candidate experience.

    40:00 Additional anecdotes and reflections on job search experiences.

    45:00 Tips for navigating the PMM job market.

    50:00 Closing remarks and promotions for the newsletter and sponsors.

    52:00 Outro and end of episode.

    Show Notes:

    ⁠Inc Authority (LLC Formation)⁠

    ⁠Exit Five Community⁠

    ⁠Healthy Competition Community⁠


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  • Timestamps

    00:43 Introducing of Julien Sauvage

    01:57 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?

    06:41 The Role of Boldness in Marketing

    14:06 Event Branding Success at Clari

    17:17 The Einstein Smart Speaker Flop

    20:24 Reflecting on Dreamforce's Gimmicks

    22:38 The Importance of Data in Product Marketing

    24:43 Challenges and Realities of PMM

    30:31 The Role of Copywriting in PMM

    38:59 Final Thoughts and Farewell

    Show Notes :

    Julien’s LinkedIn

    Content That Converts guide (by Devin Reed)


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  • Timestamps

    1:00: Introduction of Pat Wall

    5:00: Role of product marketers

    7:00: CI and product marketing

    8:30: Evolution of CI in Pat's career

    10:00: Building a CI program

    13:00: Effective sales enablement

    15:00: Internal branding

    17:00: "Torture Chamber" game

    20:00: Engaging sales teams

    24:00: Impactful enablement sessions

    26:00: Leveraging top performers

    28:00: Integrating CI and product marketing

    30:00: Tips for building a CI program

    32:00: Pat’s future projects

    34:00: Thank you and closing remarks

    Show Notes

    Pat’s LinkedIn

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  • Timestamps:

    00:52 Discussing Target Audience

    01:40 Horror Stories of Target Audience

    05:14 Challenges in Messaging and Segmentation

    14:23 Examples of Poor Market Segmentation

    21:49 Effective Segmentation Strategies

    32:15 The Power of Storytelling

    34:35 Understanding Your Audience

    38:19 Innovative Research Techniques

    Show Notes:

    Mercury EqualsArc BrowserFigmaDevin ReedClayton ChristensenOur website

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  • Timestamps:

    0:00 The one word most miss in "product marketing" with Becky Trevino

    00:16 Introduction and Hosts Banter

    01:08 Introducing Special Guest Becky Trevino

    01:55 Becky's Career Journey and Unique Perspective

    02:49 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?

    05:05 Defining Product Market Fit

    07:44 Product Marketing Superpowers

    10:12 The Art of Storytelling in Product Marketing

    15:31 Torture Chamber: Tough Choices in Product Strategy

    19:08 Should Product Marketing Live Within Product?

    22:38 Building Strong Relationships with Product Managers

    23:09 Navigating New Challenges in a New Role

    24:50 Leading Commercial Reviews and Gaining Respect

    26:03 Balancing Technical and Marketing Perspectives

    27:55 The Role of AI in Product Marketing

    33:33 Balancing Present Offerings with Future Roadmaps

    Show Notes:

    Becky Trevino LinkedIn


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  • Timestamps:

    01:05 Dave's Journey and Podcasting Tips

    04:18 The Importance of Product Marketing

    06:16 Early Stage Marketing Strategies

    13:29 Building Trust and Influence in Startups

    20:24 Positioning and Messaging Challenges

    24:42 Addressing the Decline in Win Rate

    25:24 Importance of Executing Positioning

    25:57 Casual Conversation and Personal Interests

    26:58 Messaging Torture Chamber

    27:31 Marketing Strategies: Brand vs. Content

    29:14 Event Marketing Insights

    30:59 Simplifying B2B Marketing

    34:38 The Role of Podcasts in B2B Marketing

    41:23 Conclusion and Upcoming Events

    Show Notes:

    Founder Brand

    Dave LinkedIn

    Dave Kellog Blog

    Exit Five Community

    The Exit Five Podcast


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  • Timestamps

    00:20 Guest Introduction: Anna Borbotko

    06:17 TomTom's Evolution and Market Strategy

    10:25 Challenges and Strategies in Enterprise Product Marketing

    12:48 Cold Outreach Pilot Program

    16:27 Enterprise vs. Startup Dynamics

    18:30 The Evolution of Software Buying

    19:13 Challenges in the Automotive Industry

    19:32 Simplifying the Buying Process

    20:47 Sales and Buyer Enablement

    23:25 Marketing's Role in Buyer Enablement

    26:15 The Importance of Effective Collateral

    29:44 The Torture Chamber

    33:17 Anna's Initiatives and Final Thoughts

    Show Notes:

    Anna’s LinkedIn


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  • Timestamps:

    00:00 Introduction and Host Introductions

    01:18 The Importance of Training in Product Marketing

    01:54 Identifying Unique Superpowers

    07:18 The Value of Formal Education and Certifications

    16:42 Applying Knowledge in Real-World Scenarios

    19:41 Leveraging Data Analytics in Product Marketing

    26:13 Continuous Learning and Networking

    33:01 Conclusion and Newsletter Promotion

    Show Notes:

    Million Dollar ConsultingYi Lin Pei’s The PMM Dream Job Blueprint Ready for LaunchB2B Messaging CourseYerba MATTTEEEEEE

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  • Timestamps

    00:00 Introduction and Host Intros

    01:07 Meet Our Guest: Carlota Guell

    03:28 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?

    08:18 B2B vs B2C Marketing Insights

    20:36 The Emotional Buying Pyramid

    24:22 Fun Lightning Round with Carlota

    26:43 Closing Remarks and Where to Find Carlota

    Show Notes

    Product Marketing Stories podcast

    Carlota Guell's LinkedIn profile


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  • Timestamps:

    00:00 Welcome to the Misfit Podcast: Unveiling the World of Product Marketing

    00:16 Special Guest Harvey Lee: From Business to Rockstar

    01:45 The Great Debate: Are Marketers Really Marketers?

    05:14 A Dive into Marketing History with the McElroy Memo

    12:01 The Evolution of Product Marketing in the Digital Age

    18:43 Navigating the Pathways to Becoming a Full Stack Marketer

    21:45 The Journey from Sales, CS, to Product Marketing: A Comparative Analysis

    26:42 Debunking Marketing Myths: Beyond 'Build It and They Will Come'

    27:58 The Importance of Marketing Training and Accessibility

    28:51 Harvey's Journey: Leaving PMA and Embracing Advisory Roles

    34:16 The Power of Fit in Hiring and Career Growth

    38:29 Mastering Product Marketing: Skills, Training, and Community

    41:13 Harvey Lee's Insights: Full Stack Marketing and Beyond

    44:16 Connecting with Harvey Lee: Books, Awards, and More

    Show Notes:

    ⁠ Below the Waterline Newsletter⁠

    ⁠Get his book Backstage Pass⁠

    ⁠Harvey's Website⁠

    ⁠Harvey's LinkedIn ⁠


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