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In today’s episode, we dive deep into a range of pressing topics that could shape the future of our economy. First, we unpack President Trump’s bold proposal to abolish the IRS and what that would mean for the tax system. Could this be the end of the agency that’s been a part of our financial landscape for over a century, or is it simply a political talking point? We’ll also take a close look at the impact of tariffs on the economy, analyzing how trade restrictions have affected both businesses and consumers.
We explore the historical context of tax revenue in the U.S. and how the federal government has relied on these funds throughout the years. But with the ever-growing concern about government spending, we’ll also discuss the question: how can we improve government efficiency while addressing necessary spending cuts?
With these vital topics, this episode is packed with insights and practical takeaways. Tune in for a thoughtful discussion on the future of our tax system, economic strategy, and the latest compliance updates. Don’t miss it!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:10] Trump's Proposal to Abolish the IRS
[1:15] Impact of Tariffs on the Economy
[3:15] Historical Context and Current Tax Revenue
[5:45] Government Efficiency and Spending Cuts
[9:05] The BOI Reporting Injunction and How to File for BOI
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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In this episode, we dive into breakeven points—how to calculate them and use this information to ensure your practice stays profitable. Understanding your breakeven point is key to covering expenses and making sound financial decisions for your practice.
We also revisit cash management strategies, helping you maintain a healthy cash flow and avoid financial pitfalls. From preparing for major purchases to handling day-to-day expenses, I’ll share valuable tips on staying financially organized. We’ll also discuss how to set and achieve financial goals that align your practice’s growth with your personal financial aspirations.
Lastly, we’ll take another look at how to analyze your financial statements, focusing on the statement of cash flows. These documents are critical for making informed decisions about the future of your practice. I’ll wrap up with practical financial advice specifically for dentists, so you can navigate the unique challenges of running a dental practice with confidence. Tune in to this episode for actionable insights that will help elevate your practice’s financial game!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:10] Understanding, Calculating, and Using Breakeven Points
[1:20] Cash Management Strategies
[3:15] Setting and Achieving Financial Goals
[6:30] Analyzing Financial Statements
[7:05] Statement of Cash Flows
[17:45] Practical Financial Advice for Dentists
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Saknas det avsnitt?
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Join us to dive deep into the world of business financials, focusing on understanding your Profit and Loss (P&L) statement as a critical tool for interpreting what's happening in your dental practice. The P&L not only sheds light on the performance of your practice over a specific period but also provides insight into how your growth expenses are contributing to the bottom line and whether you're achieving a solid return on investment (ROI). We'll discuss how to look at your balance sheet, which offers a snapshot in time, compared to your P&L, which tracks performance over a period. We also dive into the crucial metric of how much of your revenue is being spent and the importance of evaluating the effectiveness of each dollar spent.
As we explore the concept of diminishing returns versus scale, I’ll break down what these terms really mean for your dental practice's growth strategy. One topic that can be tricky is adding an associate to your practice. We’ll cover the factors to consider when bringing in additional help and how it impacts your practice’s capacity, as well as what to consider when planning for this kind of expansion. It's essential to understand the true capacity of your team and how that plays into your overall goals for growth.
Finally, we touch on the importance of understanding the goals of your dental practice and how all of this ties together to your breakeven point—the tipping point where your practice starts to see profits. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone looking to truly grasp the financial pulse of their business. Tune in to learn how to fine-tune your finances and set your practice up for long-term success!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:15] Understanding P&L and Breakeven Points
[1:10] Analyzing Expenses and Financial Statements
[4:10] Staffing Costs and Investment
[6:35] Growth Expenses and ROI
[11:05] Diminishing Returns and Scaling
[15:35] Breakeven Points and Conclusion
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Financial statements—whether you love them or dread them—are the foundation of every successful dental practice. In this replay episode of The Tooth and Coin Podcast, we are breaking down the three essential financial statements that every practice owner needs to understand. We start with an introduction to financial statements, explaining why they matter and how they provide critical insights into the health of your business. From tracking assets and liabilities to understanding cash flow, these reports are the key to making informed financial decisions that will drive your practice forward.
We take a deep dive into the balance sheet—what it is, how it functions, and why it’s a powerful tool for assessing financial stability. We walk you through how to analyze your balance sheet, identify red flags, and compare your numbers over time to ensure your practice is on the right trajectory. Then, we move on to the profit and loss statement, breaking down how to read it, interpret key metrics, and use it to improve profitability. Knowing the difference between revenue and net income, tracking expenses effectively, and spotting trends can help you make smarter financial decisions and increase your bottom line.
By the end of this episode, you'll have a clear understanding of how these financial statements work together to give you a complete picture of your practice’s financial health. Whether you’re a numbers pro or just getting started, this episode is packed with valuable insights to help you build a more profitable and financially sound practice. Don’t miss this opportunity to gain financial clarity—tune in now and take the next step toward mastering your practice’s finances!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:05] Introduction to Financial Statements
[1:00] The Three Main Financial Statements
[3:50] Understanding the Balance Sheet
[8:45] Analyzing Financial Health Through Balance Sheets
[15:40] Comparative Analysis of Balance Sheets
[21:35] Introduction to Profit and Loss Statements
[23:35] Discretionary Expenses and Profitability
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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In this episode, we dive deep into setting clear expectations between CPAs and clients. Too often, there are misconceptions about the roles and responsibilities of both parties when it comes to tax preparation and business finances. We’ll address these misunderstandings, explore how to set realistic expectations, and discuss how you and your CPA can work together efficiently.
I’ll walk you through the workload that a CPA faces and why it's crucial for clients to show respect and provide timely, accurate information. It’s a two-way street, and understanding your CPA firm’s expectations can make the tax season much smoother. Whether you’re preparing business tax returns or your personal returns, I'll share tips on how you can get organized and be proactive to minimize stress and maximize your returns.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:50] Setting Expectations: CPA and Client Responsibilities
[1:05] Common Misconceptions and Client Involvement
[3:10] CPA Workload and Client Respect
[5:15] Understanding CPA Firm Expectations
[13:40] Preparing for Business Tax Returns
[17:30] Preparing for Personal Tax Returns
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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In this episode, we’re diving headfirst into one of the biggest decisions every dentist faces: should you buy or start a dental practice? I’m here to break down the pros and cons, uncover the misconceptions, and help you make an informed choice about your career. We’ll start by exploring location considerations—because let’s face it, where you set up shop can make or break your success. From understanding the demographics to evaluating local competition, I’ll guide you through what to look for and what to avoid.
Next, we’ll debunk some common myths about buying a dental practice. Many dentists worry about taking the leap, but I’ll show you how to sift through the noise and focus on the facts. We’ll also discuss how to properly evaluate a dental practice for purchase, including key factors like financial performance, team dynamics, and patient base. Speaking of patients, I’ll touch on the importance of understanding new patient flow and how effective marketing plays a critical role in sustaining growth.
Of course, buying a practice isn’t all sunshine and success stories—there are challenges and pitfalls you need to be aware of. I’ll share what failing can look like in this industry, how to avoid common mistakes, and how to set yourself up for long-term success. Whether you’re in the early stages of your dental career or considering making a big move, this episode is packed with insights to help you navigate the world of dental practice ownership with confidence. Don’t miss it!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[1:30] Should You Buy or Start a Dental Practice?
[4:10] Location Considerations for Your Dental Practice
[7:30] Misconceptions About Buying Dental Practices
[8:25] Evaluating a Dental Practice for Purchase
[18:00] Understanding New Patient Flow and Marketing
[22:25] Challenges and Pitfalls in Dental Practice Acquisition
[23:45] What Does Failing Look Like?
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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In this episode, we explore the intersection of business, growth, and personal development. We’re diving into the power of reflection. When you're looking to improve in life, reflection is a key practice for growth. I’ll share why it’s so important in business, drawing on my own experiences of how regularly stepping back to evaluate has helped me make smarter decisions and overcome obstacles. Reflection isn't just about looking back; it’s about learning, adjusting, and moving forward with purpose.
I’ll also share practical tips for incorporating reflection into your routine, with tailored strategies for your business practice. From setting time aside for deep thinking to asking the right questions, you’ll walk away with actionable tools to make reflection a productive part of your personal and business growth. Tune in for insights on how reflection can unlock new opportunities and help you make informed, impactful decisions.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:20] The Importance of Reflection in Business
[2:10] Practical Tips for Reflection
[4:45] Reflection Questions to Ask Yourself
[8:45] Tailoring Reflection for Your Practice
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Raising your fees as a dental professional? You need this episode. With rising overhead costs, inflation, and the need for fair compensation, increasing your fees can help ensure your practice remains financially sustainable. We’ll explore the key factors driving fee increases and discuss how to approach this decision in a way that aligns with your practice goals while maintaining high-quality care.
We also dive into the impact of fee increases on patient retention. How do you raise your rates without losing patient trust? I’ll share strategies for communicating fee adjustments effectively to keep patients loyal and understanding. Plus, we’ll discuss how to determine the right amount to raise your fees, and offer resources for setting competitive and fair pricing that reflects your expertise. You’ll also learn how to navigate insurance negotiations to optimize your revenue.
Finally, we cover the practical side of implementing fee increases and the financial impact of these changes. Whether you’re adjusting your fees to stay competitive or improve profitability, this episode provides actionable insights on how to do it right. Tune in to learn how to raise your fees strategically, improve your bottom line, and continue offering excellent care to your patients.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[1:40] Why You Should Raise Your Fees
[1:50] Factors Driving Fee Increases
[4:10] Is Raising Fees Fair?
[5:40] Patient Retention and Fee Increases
[6:45] How Much to Raise Fees
[8:45] Resources for Setting Fees
[12:30] Insurance and Fee Negotiation
[13:45] Implementing Fee Increases
[19:10] Financial Impact of Raising Fees
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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On this episode, I’m diving into a lineup of tax topics every dental practice owner—and really, any business owner—needs to know. Let’s start with the buzz around the Beneficial Ownership Information (BOI) report. What is it, why does it matter, and what’s going on with a Texas court ruling it unconstitutional? Spoiler alert: it’s currently in limbo, and we’re breaking down what that means for you. Plus, if you’re a CPA, you’ll be relieved to know that you’re not responsible for the BOI. It really doesn't have to do with taxes.
We’re also taking a closer look at President Trump’s tax changes and their ripple effects across the board. Curious about how pass-through entity taxes work, or what the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) really means for you? I’ve got you covered with simple explanations of these complex topics. And for those of you who’ve ever wondered what it would be like to ditch taxes entirely and rely on tariffs instead, I’ll share some thoughts on that bold idea.
But it’s not all theoretical—we’re tackling real-world warnings too. The IRS has issued a strong message about tax scams involving charitable LLCs, and they’re cracking down hard on the people behind these schemes. I’ll explain what you need to watch out for, how to stay clear of these traps, and the serious implications these schemes can have on your finances if you’re not careful.
This episode is packed with insights, practical advice, and the latest tax updates to help you navigate the financial side of your business with confidence. Tune in to get the scoop and ensure you’re staying ahead of the game when it comes to tax compliance and strategy!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:40] Understanding the Beneficial Ownership Information (BOI) Report
[2:55] A Texas Court Rules the BOI Unconstitutional
[4:20] CPAs Aren't Responsible for the BOI
[5:25] President Trump's Tax Changes and Their Implications
[6:10] Passthrough Entity Taxes Explained
[7:25] Alternative Minimum Tax Explained
[8:10] Thoughts on Getting Rid of Taxes and Charging Tarrifs
[10:10] IRS Warning: Charitable LLC Tax Scams
[14:20] The IRS is aware of the Tax Schemes and are Working to Find the People Promoting Them
[15:00] Warning to Be Aware of Tax Schemes and the Implications they Can Have on You
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Let’s face it—marketing strategies aren't one size fits all, and I’m here to explain why. From the get-go, I break down the unique needs of different practices and why a cookie-cutter approach to marketing just won’t cut it. Then, I dive into the math behind patient lifetime value. Yes, there’s real math behind how much a patient is worth to your practice over time, and understanding this number can revolutionize how you approach your marketing budget.
But that’s just the beginning. I’ll walk you through the stages of the marketing journey and why tracking your efforts is absolutely crucial. Whether you’re a data-driven numbers person or just dipping your toes into metrics, I’ll share the tools and techniques to help you make sense of it all. Speaking of numbers, ever wondered how much you should be spending on marketing? I’ve got you covered with practical formulas and advice to help you figure out a budget that aligns with your practice’s goals and growth.
Timing is everything, and knowing when to evaluate and adjust your marketing strategy can make or break your success. I’ll share insights on when and how to pivot to stay ahead of the game. Finally, I wrap up the episode with actionable tips and final thoughts that you can take back to your team right away. This episode is packed with strategies to help you level up your marketing game and grow your practice with confidence.!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:20] Why One Marketing Strategy Doesn't Fit All
[4:15] The Math Behind Patient Lifetime Value
[5:55] Understanding the Marketing Journey
[7:05] Tracking Your Marketing Efforts
[10:55] How Much to Spend on Marketing
[13:15]When to Evaluate and Adjust Your Marketing
[14:50] Final Thoughts and Practical Tips
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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This week we continue our conversation on the world of investing with Dr. Deren Flesher. Today we share valuable insights on evaluating investments in real estate, oil and gas, and opportunity zones while discussing strategies for maximizing tax benefits and minimizing risk.
In this conversation, we also explore the importance of understanding sales funnels, tax strategies, and the role of CPAs in guiding investment decisions. Dr. Flesher walks us through his personal investment journey and highlights how dentists can take advantage of institutional partnerships and quick opportunities to grow their portfolios. Whether you're looking to diversify or optimize your current investments, this episode provides actionable advice on managing risks and making informed financial decisions.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:10] Exploring Alternative Investments in Dentistry
[1:05] Understanding Sales Funnels and Tax Strategies
[2:35] Diversification and Market Risks
[4:15] Institutional Partners and Quick Opportunities
[7:55]Personal Investment Journey and Opportunity Zones
[9:15] Tax Benefits and Long-Term Gains
[14:50] Oil and Gas Investments
[19:35] Role of CPAs in Investment Decisions
[25:15] Connecting and Learning More
Learn more about Legacy Point https://legacypointgroup.com/
Email Deren: [email protected]
Check out the Wealth Beyond the White Coat Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wealth-beyond-the-white-coat/id1740607879
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Dr. Deren Flesher is back, and together we dive deep into the world of alternative investments and what every savvy dental practice owner needs to know before stepping outside the realm of traditional assets. We kick things off by defining alternative investments and exploring why they’ve become such an intriguing option for those looking to diversify their portfolios. Dr. Deren shares his insights on the challenges of scaling private investments and the potential rewards, like passive income and the tax benefits that come with these strategies.
We also discuss how the Legacy Point Group is making waves with innovative investment strategies designed to help business owners achieve their financial goals. As a CPA, I provide a unique perspective on evaluating investment opportunities, pinpointing potential pitfalls, and categorizing risky investments into four critical categories you don’t want to overlook. Dr. Deren and I also highlight the importance of due diligence and the vetting process necessary to protect your financial future.
Whether you’re curious about dipping your toes into alternative investments or want to ensure your current strategies are rock-solid, this episode is packed with actionable insights. Tune in to discover how to leverage alternative investments to grow your wealth while avoiding the common traps that can derail your success!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:15] The Concept of Min-Maxing
[1:30] Passive Income and Public Markets
[2:30] Defining Alternative Investments and Their Tax Benefits
[7:45] A CPA's Perspective on Alternative Investments
[9:00] Evaluating Investment Opportunities
[11:50] Diversification Beyond Stocks
[14:15] Four Categories of Risky Investments
[16:25] Complicated Entity Structures
[22:40] Due Diligence and Vetting Process
Learn more about Legacy Point https://legacypointgroup.com/
Email Deren: [email protected]
Check out the Wealth Beyond the White Coat Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wealth-beyond-the-white-coat/id1740607879
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Join me as I sit down with Dr. Deren Flesher, an entrepreneur and dental professional whose journey is nothing short of inspiring. From crypto conversations to entrepreneurial highs and lows, Dr. Darren shares his candid insights on navigating business challenges and finding the right people to grow alongside you.
We get real about the lessons learned from failure and how to turn setbacks into valuable stepping stones. With multiple ventures on his plate, Dr. Darren talks about the art of balancing it all without losing focus on what truly matters. We also tackle hiring and training strategies, offering practical advice for building a dream team that aligns with your vision. And for those considering business partnerships, this episode dives into the essentials: trust, shared goals, and mutual respect.
Whether you're a dental professional, an entrepreneur, or just someone looking for actionable tips to level up, this episode is packed with wisdom and inspiration. Tune in for an engaging conversation that will leave you motivated to take your business—and life—to the next level.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:50] Crypto Conversations
[2:20] Challenges and Success in Business
[4:35] Finding the Right People
[6:00] Overcoming Failures and Learning
[12:25] Balancing Multiple Ventures
[15:00] Hiring and Training Strategies
[17:40] Partnering in Business
Learn more about Legacy Point https://legacypointgroup.com/
Email Deren [email protected]
Check out the Wealth Beyond the White Coat Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wealth-beyond-the-white-coat/id1740607879
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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In this episode, I’m diving deep into the world of team management and sharing actionable strategies to elevate your leadership game as a dental practice owner. Leadership isn’t all sunshine and smooth sailing. I’m pulling back the curtain on the reality of what it takes to lead effectively. From crafting a compelling vision, mission, and core values that align your team to setting and communicating goals and expectations that leave no room for confusion, we’re covering it all.
We’ll explore the crucial role accountability plays in creating a thriving team culture and how to implement it without feeling like the “bad guy.” Plus, I’ll break down effective bonus structures that motivate your team while keeping your practice’s financial health in check. Understanding each team member’s role and ensuring everyone knows how they contribute to the bigger picture is the foundation of success—and I’ll give you the tools to make it happen.
Whether you’re struggling to manage your team or just looking for ways to level up your leadership skills, this episode is packed with insights you can’t afford to miss. Tune in now and discover how to build a motivated, aligned, and high-performing team that drives your practice forward!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:30] The Reality of Leadership
[1:55] Vision, Mission, and Core Values
[6:30] Setting and Communicating Expectations
[8:25] The Importance of Connecting the Dots
[12:23] The Importance of Accountability
[16:10] Effective Bonus Structures
[24:00] Understanding Team Roles
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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I’m diving into a game-changing topic for dental practice owners: understanding capacity in a way that elevates efficiency and profit. I’m breaking down the three essential modes of capacity—physical space, time, and people—and how each impacts your practice's ability to grow and serve more patients. Let’s start with the physical space component: the impact of the amount of space in your building. Next, we’ll explore the impact of the time component on your capacity.
Then there’s the people component—one of the most crucial aspects of capacity. I’ll explain why having the right staff and optimizing their roles can make or break the success of your practice. It’s not just about filling positions; it’s about understanding how each role contributes to your overall capacity. We’ll talk about the critical task of tracking active patients, using doctor-side metrics to evaluate productivity, and how to keep a close eye on financial and scheduling metrics that drive growth. This episode isn’t just a capacity check—it’s a blueprint for building a practice that’s primed for scalable success. Tune in to learn how these strategies can take your practice to the next level!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[1:20] Three Modes of Capacity: Physical Space, Time, and People
[10:20] The Average Startup Practice
[13:05] Tracking Active Patients
[24:55] Financial and Scheduling Metrics
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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We're pulling back the curtain on some of the most common financial oversimplifications that can hurt dental practices—ones that might surprise you! These seemingly small mistakes add up fast and can impact profitability and overall growth. We’ll also break down how to determine if it's the right time to bring on an assistant by analyzing your new patient flow, booking timeline, operatory capacity, and patient base. These are factors that can make or break your daily operations—if not managed well. I'll guide you on how to keep a pulse on these areas to ensure that your practice runs like a well-oiled machine.
So many practices fall into the trap of relying on generic benchmarks that don’t account for the unique aspects of their business—I'll explain why following these can sometimes do more harm than good, and what you should do instead. We’ll discuss why having a solid financial strategy is essential and how to avoid falling for quick-fix advice that won’t serve your long-term goals.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:25] Three Costly Oversimplifications in Dental Practices
[2:30] The 100K Means Hire Rule
[5:50] New Patient Flow as a Factor in Determining if You Need To Hire an Assistant
[7:15] Understanding the Booking Timeline
[07:45] Understanding Operatory Capacity
[08:30] Understanding Patient Base
[11:55] The Benchmark Trap
[15:50] The Fake CFO Phenomenon
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Throughout this episode, we'll discuss the crucial lessons learned from Timmy's experience in the financial multiverse, focusing on the importance of making informed decisions and understanding the long-term implications of your financial partnerships. We'll explore Timmy's initial relationship with his traditional CPA, a decision rooted in familiarity but fraught with challenges. As we enter "Universe One," we’ll uncover the pitfalls of sticking with a conventional CPA firm, highlighting the limitations that many dental professionals face in navigating their financial landscapes.
Next, we venture into "Universe Two," where Timmy is drawn to the charismatic yet questionable Slick Steve, who promises to simplify the tax maze. Timmy's concerns about Steve's flashy promises and the true cost of his services are pivotal moments in our story. As we peel back the layers, we’ll reveal Steve's true identity and how it contrasts with his charming façade. Despite some initial successes, Timmy soon grapples with growing doubts as the dreaded audit nightmare descends upon him. Lastly, we explore "Universe 3," where Timmy finds his greatest advantage: a dental-specific CPA firm.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[00:20] The Tale of Timmy the Dentist Begins
[01:55] Universe One: Sticking with the Old CPA
[04:10] Challenges with a Traditional CPA Firm
[09:05] Universe Two: The Lure of Slick Steve
[11:05] Navigating the Tax Maze
[14:05] Timmy's Initial Success and Growing Doubts
[16:05] The Audit Nightmare Begins
[17:30] Timmy's Realization and Consequences
[18:30] Lessons Learned and Final Thoughts
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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If you’re a new practice owner, brace yourself for the potential tax shock that can come from unexpected expenses and obligations. Today I’ll break down tax estimates and projections to help you navigate the numbers more confidently. I’ll walk you through various scenarios that different practice owners face, from startups to acquired practices. I also highlight the unique tax implications that come with each.
Established practices aren’t off the hook either—there are plenty of tax surprises waiting around the corner. Together, we’ll explore strategies for navigating these challenges, ensuring you’re well-prepared. Finding the right tax professional is crucial, so I’ll share tips on spotting legitimate experts in dental taxation and the key credentials to look for. Experience matters, especially when it comes to working with dentists, so we’ll discuss what to prioritize when choosing your tax advisor.
I’ll emphasize the importance of being wary of professionals who might push investments without a solid strategy. You won’t want to miss the real-world examples of tax strategy scams and the high fees that often serve as a red flag. Finally, we’ll delve into comprehensive tax planning approaches, focusing on the modern strategies that ensure consistency in your tax planning efforts.
What you'll hear in this episode:
[1:45] Breaking Down Tax Estimates and Projections
[4:05] Tax Considerations for Acquired Practices
[5:20] Tax Surprises for Established Practices
[7:55] Navigating Tax Strategies
[9:40] Spotting Legitimate Tax Professionals
[11:00] Identifying True Experts in Dental Taxation
[12:40] Beware of Investment Pushing
[14:35] Red Flags
[15:25] Comprehensive Tax Planning Approaches
[18:05] The Modern Approach to Tax Planning
[19:35] Consistency in Tax Planning
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Welcome back to The Tooth and Coin Podcast! I’m your host, Jonathan VanHorn, and I’m excited to reconnect with you. This podcast explores the ins and outs of owning a dentistry practice, providing insights to enhance both your practice and personal finances. I’ve taken some time away to focus on my practice for a while but I'm excited to jump back into content creation. I have reflected and refined my vision, fueled by my passion for optimization in the field.
I believe sharing knowledge is crucial in our ever-evolving industry. In this episode, I’ll outline the exciting content you can expect, from practical tips to improve your dental practice to empowering financial advice that can help you make informed decisions. This podcast is designed to be relatable and actionable, steering clear of overly technical jargon. I invite you to join me on this journey. Whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or just starting out, tune in to the latest episode, and let’s navigate the complexities of dentistry and finance together!
What you'll hear in this episode:
[0:25] What's This Podcast About?
[1:00] Where Have I Been?
[4:55] What This Podcast Won't Be
[7:20] Vision for Tooth and Coin
[8:25] Join the Community
Learn more about Tooth and Coin's services: https://www.toothandcoin.com/
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Join the discussion on Facebook! - and connect with Dr. Buchman!
TranscriptJonathan VanHorn:
Welcome to the Tooth and Coin Podcast where we talk about your adventure of being a dental practice owner. In these episodes, we're going to be talking about problems that you will likely face as a practice owner as well as give an idea about actionable solutions that you can take so that you can get past this problem in your practice. Some of these concepts are really big ones, some of them are very specific. But we hope that these episodes help you along with your journey.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Now, a very important piece for you to understand is that this is not paid financial advice. This is not paid tax or legal advice. We are not your financial advisors. We are not your CPAs. This is two CPAs talking about informational and educational content to help you along with your journey. It's a very important piece for you to understand.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Another thing that you need to know is that if you enjoy today's content, join us on the Facebook group. So we've got a Facebook group that is active with dentists that is going to have content talking about what we're talking about today to continue the discussion. Agree with us? Don't agree with us? Have a story to tell? Have something to share? Join us in the Facebook group. If you go to Facebook and you search for Tooth and Coin Podcast, click on it to join it and be able to join us there.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Finally, if you need some more help, we're developing a list of resources that are going to be centering in around our topics of discussion to be able to help you a little bit more than what the content is doing. So if you'd like access to that whenever it becomes ready, all you have to do is text the word toothandcoin, T-O-O-T-H-A-N-D-C-O-I-N to 33444. Again, that's toothandcoin, all one word, no spaces, to 33444. Reply with your email address and we'll email you instructions on how to get into the Facebook group as well as add you to the list to be able to send you those resources when they're available, and if they're available, we'll go ahead and send them to you as well.
Jonathan VanHorn:
So onto today's episode. I hope you enjoy.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Hello, ambitious dentists. Today, I have with us a very, very special guest in addition to my partner in crime, Mr. Joseph Rugger. So today, we are doing something a little bit different, a little bit more fun, that I think you guys are going to enjoy. We are talking with someone who we've been lucky enough to be able to see their entire dental practice journey so far. This person is Dr. Wes Buchman. So Dr. Wes, thank you for coming on today.
Wes Buchman:
Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Yeah. So for people that are listening that aren't familiar with dentists in Arkansas, Dr. Wes Buchman has acquired an office. We were lucky enough to be part of that process. We've been able to see all of the success that he's had with that process. So Joseph and I were talking about some really fun ideas for episodes and Joseph thought this would be a good episode for us. So Joseph, why don't you take it away and just talk about what it is you're thinking that people will be able to get out of this conversation?
Joseph Rugger:
All right. Thanks, Jonathan. Really, really excited to bring you a new episode on the Tooth and Coin Podcast. We're really excited to talk to one of our good friends of Tooth and Coin. This is Dr. Wes Buchman, who is a practicing dentist, solo office in Central Arkansas. So I'm really, really excited to get a chance to come pick Dr. Wes's brain, learn a little bit more about his decision-making process, and all of the things that went into the first couple of years of practice ownership. So we're really, really looking forward to the conversation. Wes, thanks so much for joining us. We're happy to have you on the podcast.
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. I'm happy to be here.
Joseph Rugger:
Wes, why don't you walk us through maybe the decision? So you worked as an associate at another practice and there's quite a bit that goes into the decision to start your own business and to go out on your own and hang your own shingle on all those things. As you look back on the last couple of years and on the decision to make the leap into practice ownership, maybe walk us through some of the bigger things that you were thinking, some things that were big turning points for you and walk us through how you made that decision.
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. First, I was fortunate enough to get out of dental school and have a very good associateship with a successful practice. It couldn't have, at least financially, been a better scenario. It wasn't like I was scraping by or anything like that. So then it really turned into what do I want to be doing for the long-term? My personality is more of I want to do things my way, for better or worse I guess you could say. So I just knew that I wanted to be able to make decisions on my future and not really have somebody be able a) to fire me if they just felt like it or I knew there was a reason people are buying practices and owning practices, and there had to be financial reward there as well. But ultimately, I wanted to be in power of my own destiny instead of at the whim of an owner that wasn't as involved or as concerned with my future as I was.
Joseph Rugger:
Well, Dr. Wes, I wanted to also ask about the decision to acquire a practice. So as we have folks that are probably listening to this podcast, there are going to be some that are interested in doing a de novo or a scratch start, right? Or they may be interested in doing an acquisition. So I'd be curious on your thoughts on what led you to go down the road of acquisition versus scratch start. Maybe walk us through that decision-making process.
Wes Buchman:
First of all, doing a scratch start still scares the bejesus out of me. I don't know. People that do that are just on another level, man. Most respect to them for just having so much confidence that they can just bring people in out of thin air. I mean, that scared me so much that I'd rather have a bigger loan and patient flow. So that really wasn't ever a desire for me to do a scratch start. But honestly, when you get out, you don't really know what you want as far as what a practice looks like unless you just have a person... you are a person that has really great vision.
Wes Buchman:
So for me, it was learning. Listened to plenty of Jonathan's podcasts. I listened to Shared Practices's podcasts. I read as many articles and books and stuff as I could get my hands on to really form an educated opinion on what a good practice was and was not. Then started asking around. I knew that Central Arkansas and really Little Rock was where I was going to practice, so that narrowed it down. Some people will move or look out in the country. That really just wasn't something that I was looking for. So then it was sitting there waiting and going and looking at practices. I probably looked at five or six before I landed on the one I'm in now.
Wes Buchman:
Just, with all the stuff that you learn before of how many patients do they have, does it seem like it's struggling, is it... looking at their practice numbers, seeing do they have the latest and greatest equipment or is it old, all of these different factors that you guys helped me on and then the knowledge that I had gained from literally just learning and reading everything that I could. You start to figure out what kind of practice you really want, and that's going to be different for everybody. For me, it was important to have a bigger of a practice because I always wanted to have two doctors, me and one other one, or more, but me and one other one in the practice. So I was really looking for bigger practices from the get-go if I could do it. So yeah. Those are probably what made me start going in that direction to come to this practice.
Joseph Rugger:
All right. That's great. Thanks for that. I want to ask about something that we get a question on on the CPA side regularly. So the question is, hey, there's this piece of equipment that's coming up. My rep is in town, said that I can expense all of it for tax purposes. Should I buy it with cash? Should I use debt to finance it? Can you maybe walk us through, as you're looking... I'm not talking about changing the style of gloves that you wear. Just when you look at some of the bigger purchases and the bigger decisions that you make as a practice owner, certainly on the CPA side, we can always guide you on the tax ramifications and all of those different pieces, but maybe walk us through as a new business owner maybe how you approached some of those bigger decisions and how you made those decisions. If you could maybe walk us through that decision-making process?
Wes Buchman:
Man, in my opinion, owning a practice is just so many little decisions. It's not one big massive decision, after deciding to buy the practice, of course. So owning the practice is all these little decisions. So for me, it was more of an abstract thing of realizing that I had to question each decision that was made and to seek out as many answers as possible. So just that general statement there has gotten me through a lot of when something would come up or looking at how something was done in the practice, of saying, "Is this the right way to do it? How do we get to the right way to do it?"
Wes Buchman:
If I don't know, I start asking people. Luckily, our dental community overall is really nice and helpful and understanding. I mean, especially the younger guys that were closer to your age. I have three or four or five fellow dentists that I especially called a lot in the beginning to ask them, "How do you do this? How is this done?" And just try to seek out as many answers as possible. Because at the end of the day, you guys are there to help and then your guys that you know are willing to help. It just makes everything a lot easier if you're willing to seek out some answers.
Wes Buchman:
The other thing I was glad I really knew was, another kind of abstract thing, of just knowing I was willing to put the work in. I wasn't scared to do it. That's a really big thing I think all practice owners have to realize is there are just people that are not willing or built to take on that type of responsibility and that's fine. If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. But everybody talks about owning a practice, but at the end of the day, if that's not your style, you're going to be miserable doing this thing. We are up here a lot more and taking care of a lot of different stuff. So as far as things that I'm really glad I knew, it's more general knowledge of personality and being willing to go the extra mile to make it right. Because clinically, it splinters in a lot of different stuff of how you want to run your practice, which would be different for everybody.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Can you give us an example of something specific that you have... maybe you even dealt with it today or in the last month, that you're like, "I didn't really think about me having to do this back when I was thinking of buying a business"?
Wes Buchman:
Oh, man. The silliest thing would be when I bought the practice... The practice I had before, the staff did basically everything. I was an associate. I was an employee. I walked in, when to work, and left. As the owner, everything falls on you. The silliest thing would be that I have to deal with after I get off with you guys is there is a trap that catches all the stone and stuff, and after it gets full, it gets pretty stinky. I got to go dump that thing out. It's going to be heavy and smelly and miserable for about 30 minutes while I do that. So that's probably the silliest thing.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Hey, we are pulling the curtain all the way back on this podcast.
Joseph Rugger:
That's funny.
Wes Buchman:
Yeah, unless you just got a staff that does everything for you. My staff does so much, don't get me wrong. But that's one of them that the doc before me did himself and so I have acquired that fun task every little bit of time.
Joseph Rugger:
I want to switch gears a little bit and talk to you about some knowledge pieces. So as you look back over the last couple years of practice ownership, I'd be interested to know what are some things that you knew and you were prepared for, some things that you were really glad that you had spent the time and learned about and you knew about? What are some things that you thought you knew on the front end that you're really, really glad you spent some time learning about?
Wes Buchman:
Oh, man. Where do you begin? I mean, if you could just generalize it, it'd just be people. If you hadn't been around long enough, you haven't met enough people. So dealing with staff, especially in the beginning, it's going to stress you out because you don't know them that well and you're trying to and there's a lot of personality. Luckily, I didn't have really any turnover at the beginning. Some people retired because they were at retiring age, but I didn't really lose anybody for that nature, so that was awesome. But just figuring people out and dealing with the most random staff requests that put you on the spot. You don't really know what the right answer is in the moment. You got to think about it.
Wes Buchman:
Or dealing with patients. There are a lot of interesting people out there that you don't really know how to handle at the first. You get your groove with them and hopefully you just don't make them mad at the offset or make them think you're weird. But after you get to know them, you know how to handle them. But man, people by far because you're just... you got to learn how to handle people or they're not going to like coming to your office.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Talking about people, one of the things that I find really interesting, or at least, I think is interesting, I don't know if everybody else does, I'm assuming other people do, but one of the things that is almost never talked about is whenever a doctor buys a dental practice from another doctor and then they have to go and meet their team for the first time. What was that like, meeting your new team?
Jonathan VanHorn:
So we've had clients who are like, "You literally cannot even send..." Make sure we're doing this. We don't send anything in the mail because it's going to be the day that I buy it is going to be the day that I walk in. They're going to meet me the day I become the owner, not a day before that, not a day... At no other time are they allowed to hear my name because the doctor wants us to be ultra top CIA secret. Then we have people that are just like, "Yeah, I've been talking about this to this guy for the last two years. I know everybody that's there and they're all my best friends and they know I'm going to be taking over eventually." So what was that dynamic like for you? Then what was it like going and meeting the staff afterwards? Because again, sometimes that's a part of the decision-making process for people. Do I actually like the people? Do I like the employees that are going to be here? Do I really want to buy that? So what was your experience with that piece of it?
Wes Buchman:
Well, my situation was unique in the fact that I had been a patient at this dental office before, so not many people have that opportunity. So I have known... It was a two doctor practice. They ran them separately. I was the patient of one of them and so I bought both and merged together. Right? So I didn't really know the other staff at all. I really only knew the doctor and kind of one of the assistants because I hadn't been back here since I'd been away at school for a decade. So I knew him already and had a great relationship and they had been at a retiring age for quite some time. So not as much as your second part of your example, but still, they had flirted with the idea of retiring for a long time and so the staff knew something was going to happen at some point. So mentally, it wasn't a surprise to them in that way.
Wes Buchman:
But we did it kind of down the middle as far as your two examples go because we did send out a letter. The two doctors each wrote a letter to their patients and I wrote a letter that had my picture, all professional photo with my wife and Henry on it, and sent that out with that letter. So that was beneficial overall because it got to give people a chance to see me before they saw me. Some people, I've heard advise against that because you're going to lose patients. You can make an argument for anything.
Wes Buchman:
So after they announced it to the staff and then right after, it was either the day after or the Monday after, I had lunch with the staff and with those doctors there. So I catered the lunch and just basically gave them my resume beforehand and said, "Let's hang out and we'll run through questions," and did it that way. So I actually had two or three meetings before I really ever started to make sure all questions were answered and everybody was comfortable and I got a feel for if they had any issues or special things going on with them or stuff like that.
Joseph Rugger:
Talk to us about maybe some of the things that you wish you would have known going into practice ownership that you just had to find out the hard way. Maybe walk us through some of those things that you figured out.
Wes Buchman:
Oh, man. It's been a couple years. I wish I would have written them down because they did really throw me for a loop because it was just the most random stuff. I just bought the practice. I don't have my office manual in place yet, everything locked down. So it was just...
Wes Buchman:
One was a lady that was nearing retirement age and she had family stuff that would take her out of the office. So she just asked a very blunt... She's a super sweet lady, but she asked me just a very blunt question of am I going to allow her to take off whenever she wants. It was like, I guess? I don't know. I mean, there's vacation days. I don't really know what you're asking.
Wes Buchman:
Or there was a lot of questions about what are you going to change? What are you going to keep the same? That's a little bit easier to answer, of stuff that I offer that the other docs didn't and go through that. Most of the stuff, I tried to keep the same as much as possible in the beginning just to make the transition easier. But really, a lot of the questions were specific about certain patients. Because we have a really fun patient base, but there are a lot of quirky people here, which makes it fun honestly. But our patients have been in this practice for a long time. A lot of these patients have been here for 30 years, which is amazing. Because my doc has practiced in this location since '84.
Wes Buchman:
So a lot of them, the questions were so random, of, well, we got a guy, let's call him Jerry, we got a guy, Jerry. He doesn't like when you do this, that, or the other. So what are you going to do about it? And you're like, "I don't know, man. We'll figure it out." But it's just the most random, specific questions that you... There was no answer for it in my opinion. But we got through it.
Wes Buchman:
The hardest parts were the meetings after and going through when I did start to change stuff and making sure the staff was onboard with that and comfortable with the changes and answering their concerns and things like that.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Give us some examples of that. Like what were some of the changes that you felt like you needed to make after you took over the practice?
Wes Buchman:
This practice, you could just say it was older in general. New equipment hadn't really been bought in quite some time. Still paper charts. The pano machine was still film. That pretty much sums it up to a lot of younger docs. So I knew the way that I practice, and Joseph can attest to our many conversations, I like technology and I like things to be efficient and run smoothly and look good as well. Right? So I knew I-
Jonathan VanHorn:
The reason you chose that was CPAs, right? Because we love [crosstalk 00:22:49]-
Wes Buchman:
Exactly, exactly. I look for the best looking dental CPAs.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Third best in the state of Arkansas right here. yeah.
Wes Buchman:
So I had learned through all the stuff that I read and my prep on owning a practice was try to start with stuff that will have the highest ROI with the least patient impact or disturbance you could say. I kind of took that to heart, so we changed the phone systems, because we were still sending out postcards in the mail to remind you of your appointments or your need to schedule, and that costs surprisingly a lot of money if you have a lot of patients and we're a two doctor practice. So I was like, "Why don't we just change the phones, do text messages, and save a bunch of money on postage?" Which we did and it was awesome.
Wes Buchman:
So we moved to Weave. That improved the internet and the phones as well. Because I remember calling right before I started and it sounded like it was raining on the phone. I was like, "What is that sound on this phone?" They were like, "Oh, yeah. It does that every little while and we can't hear the patient, so we just ask them to call back." I was like, "That is unacceptable. This is the silliest thing." So we changed the phones, got Weave.
Wes Buchman:
We got a new pano machine and I knew I wanted to do endo and end up placing implants, so we got a CPCT machine. Before I bought it, we started looking and these guys with the film pano hadn't really been taking any panos. So buying a CPCT machine that does panos and getting back on a regular schedule doing those with the patients, I mean, it was a no-brainer at that point that the machine would pay for itself in a short amount of time. So those were the first two big ones.
Wes Buchman:
Then we moved to change the practice management software. We were using SoftDent before and I feel like I was using Windows '94. So we moved to Denticon because, honestly, it was between a few of them and I had used Denticon at my previous job and the office manager that I was stealing from another office, she uses Denticon as well. So it was just a natural fit and so we kind of ran with that. So getting rid of the paper charts, just modernizing the office in general were big ones. So the practice management software was the biggest hurdle because these people have been using paper charts for 30 years, 30-plus years. So that was very difficult to get everybody comfortable and efficient at using modern practice management software.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Yeah. I find that that usually is a very disruptive change internally for dental practices, but looking back on it, most people are like, "Yeah, that was a necessity. We had to do that at some point-"
Wes Buchman:
For sure.
Jonathan VanHorn:
... and think it's a good thing at the end of the day. So that's fantastic. So frame this too, we didn't do this at the beginning, probably to start the conversation off, about how long ago was it that you bought this practice?
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. We bought it... I started November 4th, my birthday, in 2019. So it was a great birthday to begin. We had worked on it for, I think about, what, five or six months before?
Jonathan VanHorn:
It was-
Wes Buchman:
Maybe shorter?
Jonathan VanHorn:
It was a pretty decent timeframe. I mean, we've had people that will call me and they'll be like, "Yeah, I need someone to help me buy a dental practice," and I'll be like, "Well, when are you trying to close by?" They're like, "Well, today is the 12th. By the 16th?" I'm like, "Well, expectations are not going to be met if you're trying to get [crosstalk 00:27:07]-"
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. No, but you are... It was longer because I had to wait six months at my previous job. So it was longer than six months.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Yeah, we had a lot of time to think about it. So in terms of, just framing it of the listeners too, all these changes that have happened, again, this is a two doctor dental practice you bought and now you're the sole owner of a two doctor dental practice. Giving some vagueness to it, just to tell people the success that you've had in this dental practice, I would say you're seeing right now, from when you took over, again, using a wide range here, somewhere between a 30% and 70% growth over that two year period? Because we're not even at two years yet, but about a two year period?
Wes Buchman:
Right. Yeah, we're definitely tracking to be in that range of increasing in revenue with keeping the staff, adding just one staff since I came on. So we've been able to really get going. That's honestly, these older guys are great dentists. They just haven't had to work as hard as a younger guy does. So we're a little bit hungrier. We want to move a little bit more and work a little bit harder. But we've just made some changes like that and just how we schedule, which has helped with the Denticon being out software, and bringing in our office manager that's just a rockstar. That has helped fuel that growth for sure. So we're on track to be quite a bit bigger than when we started, so we've been really happy with it.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Well, and I'll just say this, and we mentioned this before the podcast started, I wanted to use wide numbers because we don't want everyone knowing all of what's going on with you. But there are some influencers that are out there that will say they'll have, oh, these giant numbers of growth and giant... like 100% growth year over year and all these other things. We have this unique perspective where we're accountants, we're CPAs, we know a lot of... We just, we can see behind the curtains for some people sometimes. Those numbers aren't always what they seem.
Jonathan VanHorn:
I hear this from a lot of people actually that are people that are in the industry, that are on the consulting side, and things like that, and I hear people that are listeners that are talking about influencers that are saying, "Oh..." They said they did this, but it was really only this. To the listeners out there, this was not a small practice that was just all of a sudden that grew this amount. This was a significant amount of growth.
Jonathan VanHorn:
So for you, Dr. Wes, if you were to start this all over again, what would it be that you would look for in a practice? Assuming you didn't buy this one, knowing what you know now, what would it be that you'd be searching for in a practice to buy? It's kind of an odd question because you already... you own this one. But just pretend like you don't own it anymore and you're not allowed to buy this practice again. Given that you've had such success with the practice you've gotten, what would you look for in the new practice?
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. Man, so every practice for every dentist is going to look different. I know a guy down in Louisiana that bought a smaller practice, but he was almost fee-for-service and so he's kept it really small and has been very successful in that way, so might look different. But for me, if I had to do it again and not this one, looking for bigger of a practice, the better. Because the margins are better. Your room for error is better. You know what I mean? So if you buy a practice that's only grossing 400K, well, the margin's a little bit thinner for error of you being successful and not successful if you buy a 800,000 or a $1,000,000 practice.
Wes Buchman:
Honestly, one of my thoughts was, "Well, this is a two doctor practice." In ways, one guy ran it pretty tight, so it was kind of a 1.5 doctor practice, you could say. I was like, "At the end of the day, if 20% of the patients leave," because that's what some articles will say, "maybe it'll just shrink and I'll have a great one doctor practice." I had some room to run there. But for me, the bigger, the bigger. The bigger you can muster and get that loan for a bigger practice, it's just going to be better.
Wes Buchman:
Then not going for a practice with all the newest stuff because they're going to make you pay for it. This practice being older, I got to pick and choose on my own time of what I wanted. So if somebody is the CEREC guru that does all this late and great stuff, I mean, can you match that when you're one to five years out? Probably not. So bigger practice, older equipment that's functional, the better because then you can pick and choose what you want.
Wes Buchman:
Then probably the last one is see how long their staff has been there. If you have a smaller practice and all the staff is constantly turned over, you're probably not buying a very healthy practice in a lot of ways. This practice was fortunate that people have been here for... The oldest hygienist has been here since like '87 I think and she's still here working for me. I have added one or two people, but most of these people have been here over a decade or more. That just goes to show that people are happy here. Patients have been here for a long time. So just things like that you look for. Because at the end of the day, if a piece of equipment's terrible, you can replace it. It doesn't have to be the newest thing. It can be used. But the more patients, the better. You got to understand your people and what you're doing. You're not going to know everything about them, but you can gather enough information to know if this seems like a happy place or an unhappy place.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Yeah. So in terms of finding that practice, and this is a bit of a chicken and egg question, so sometimes it can be a bit complicated to answer, but what would you rather have? I mean, because you mentioned the bigger, the better. What would you rather have be bigger, revenue or patient count? So when I'm saying that, let's say that you've got a practice you're buying that's $1,000,000 to buy the practice and it's got 2,500 patients and then you've got another practice that's for sale that's $1,000,000 and it's got, say, 1,100 patients. Of those two, which one would you rather have? Would you probably be, knowing nothing else, be more interested in?
Wes Buchman:
If both had 1,000,000 in revenue, but one had 2,500 and one had 1,100?
Jonathan VanHorn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Active patients.
Wes Buchman:
First, I wouldn't believe them because I would double check their hygiene numbers. You taught me that. But, man, what a good question. Because you can make arguments for either one. I probably-
Jonathan VanHorn:
Because those are the two practices we see come in all the time.
Wes Buchman:
My gut would say the one with 2,500 because the one that has 1,100, he has probably squeezed every penny he can out of those patients and when you buy it, there's not going to be anything left.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Yeah. So when I'm talking to people about the practices that I see have the most amount of success, it is that... It's more patient count than it is revenue really.
Wes Buchman:
Right.
Jonathan VanHorn:
So whenever someone's looking for a large practice, I always say, "If they've got a lot of patients, there is a lot of opportunity usually just inside of that because of the fact that..." And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with someone who's asking $1,000,000 for a practice that has 2,500 patients, but there is a lot of... With 2,500 patients, a lot of people can do a lot more in revenue than that. Especially a lot of the younger doctors.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Now, really, when I say that we see this come in a lot of the time, that practice actually doesn't come in... Those two practices don't come in that often. Really what comes in more often is more like $700,000 for each practice and one of those has like 2,000 patients and one of them has like 800. But that's a bit more common of what usually comes into the office. Those $700,000 ones that have the 2,000 patients or whatever it is, those are the ones that, not every time, but historically seem to be they see the growth that you've had in similar amounts because it's just you add new services, you do a newer style of treatment planning than a lot of what the older docs seem to do, and it just seems to grow so much faster.
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. You bring up a very good point that you have to say to anybody wanting to buy a practice, one of the things I did miss was look for a practice that you can add skills, add services. I mean, that's the quickest and arguably least expensive way to grow your practice immediately, right? If you have a crown and bridge guy, he may have done all the crowns, but he's not doing any of the endo or any of the harder oral surgery or implants, Invisalign. If you can get your training in those things as early as possible, you're going to be so much better off in the long run. You're going to get tired of doing quadrants of composite fill-ins for an hour when you could place an implant for less than an hour and make a significantly more amount of money.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Oh, yeah. Another question for this is let's assume you go out and you did find another practice that's got, let's say it's that $1,000,000 practice, 2,500 patients and it looks fairly similar to the day that you start... A lot of things go the same way that we just talked about in terms of what you went through buying the practice, meeting, the staff, getting the patients turned over, adding services, things like that. Day one of being the new owner of this new hypothetical pretend practice, what would you do that you've already done today, but do faster? Does that make sense? What learning curves have you overcame by being an owner for a couple of years that you would have implemented faster if you knew how to do it?
Wes Buchman:
Are we saying clinically or just managing the practice or what do you mean?
Jonathan VanHorn:
Anything, anything, anything. Whatever you think would have the most impact on getting that practice up and running, and either it be for your quality of life or it be for revenue or it be for income, whatever, patient care. Whatever.
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. When I first started day one, I tried to meet everybody and I would not have done that again. That's the first little thing. Literally day one, I was trying to meet everybody, every patient in the office, and that was just unsustainable. So we quickly went away from that. I struggle with when to make changes in the offices, like the practice management software or buying stuff or how we did things in treatment plans. You can make arguments either way and if you read enough on this dental space about that, you'll figure that out. But for me, I would have changed more earlier and just... Because the first year of owning a practice is pretty terrible in a lot of ways. You're up here all the time, you're stressed out about everything. I'm more of a just get it over with kind of guy, so I probably would have just changed more in general and hopefully coasted earlier after that. Does that answer your question?
Jonathan VanHorn:
It does.
Wes Buchman:
Okay.
Jonathan VanHorn:
So now I'm going to throw a wrinkle on it though.
Wes Buchman:
Okay.
Jonathan VanHorn:
So even though you didn't know what you didn't know and assuming other people that buy a practice for the first time aren't going to have experienced these things, do you think that would have been good advice for you to tell yourself whenever you started? Do you know what I mean? Like would you have screwed it up if you hadn't experienced the change in a slower process? Would you tell the guy next door that's going to be buying a practice, "Hey, start changing the stuff earlier"? Because the common thread if you ask anybody, they're all like, "Give it six months. Give it six months. Don't change anything. Then after six months, then start changing things." I think that's pry the safest advice for most people, especially if they're a first time practice owner. But I would think even if you're a second time practice owner, that probably should be fine to go ahead and start changing the stuff, right?
Wes Buchman:
I would think so. I think part of that six month buffer is just get your bearings, right? You got a lot going on. But now that I'm on the other side of it, I don't remember that anymore. It's kind of like having your kids. You kind of don't remember all the sleepless nights as vividly as when they first happened. I guess I would still tell them to do it quickly just because in a way, what are you waiting on? I mean, if your staff's onboard... If you're already having staff struggles or you're dealing with some bigger issues, of course, use some judgement and wait. But if things are going well, and this isn't going to turn the practice upside down, like if you're going to just fire half your staff or something, I mean, if you're just making changes, just do it. You're not going to really regret it because you're going to deal with it now or you're going to deal with it later.
Wes Buchman:
At the end of the day, you want to run your practice the way that you want to run it. You don't want to feel like you're cooking in somebody else's kitchen the whole time. That was a thing for me, was get this thing how I want it so I feel like it's mine and not like I'm borrowing it from the last guy.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Yeah. I love that answer. I think that's really good advice for everybody that's listening. Is there any other advice that you can think of that you wish you would have known before this whole process started?
Wes Buchman:
Oh, man. We should have a much longer podcast because we can keep going on this stuff, man.
Jonathan VanHorn:
I know, right?
Wes Buchman:
Advice? If you think that you are ready to buy a practice and you find what you think is a good one, and Tooth and Coin will help you do that, that's not an official plug, but it is a plug, do it. You're going to be stressed, fine. But it is, in my opinion, totally worth it to own the practice if that's your desire. Just do it. Make it your own. You'll be happier if you do. Seek out as much help as you possibly can. At the end of the day, I can ask you guys as many questions as I can, I did it a lot at the beginning, and you guys helped. I asked a lot of friends that were dentists that owned practices what they do.
Wes Buchman:
I went on the message boards and filtered out all the crazy stuff, but tried to find answers there. Because at the end of the day, you don't know that much about business, especially as dentists because we take, what, one hour or so of business classes in dental school. So just don't be afraid to ask questions. Anybody listening, I will be happy to talk to them and run them through more specifics of what we're doing or what we had and answer questions because there's a lot of decisions that are all small that have to be made. Like when do I buy this big thing? When do I buy these small things? What kind of vendors deals are there? How do I compete with the buying power of corporate dentistry? There is a lot of BS that you have to filter through, but the more questions, the better, man, because most of the time, people want you to be successful. So just ask as many questions as you can.
Jonathan VanHorn:
I love it. So you mentioned a few earlier, but what are some resources for people that are trying to figure this out? You mentioned my old podcast, Start Your Dental Practice, you mentioned Shared Practices, which we're really big fans of those guys. What are some other resources you found helpful? Like any books or any specific forums or anything like that?
Wes Buchman:
Well, I think the Shared podcasts were going to be the second biggest one. Because they were just so comprehensive. I mean, that podcast was going on forever. So reading all of that, or excuse me, listening to all of that, they hit on so many different topics that you feel like you have a decent idea of what's going on. They're not trying to sell you anything in the podcast at least, so, I mean, it's really beneficial. I'd say if you want to own a practice, that's one of the ones that you should be doing.
Wes Buchman:
As far as books go, I wish I had a better memory, but I don't have any books on hand. It's been two years. I try to read a lot of books, but I tend to read half of it-
Jonathan VanHorn:
I see.
Wes Buchman:
... and put it on the nightstand and then forget about it.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Me too. Once I started having kids, I stopped being able to actually read books. I don't read books. It's been-
Wes Buchman:
Oh, yeah. I mean, two pages in and you're asleep.
Jonathan VanHorn:
I know, right?
Wes Buchman:
Then internet stuff, Dentaltown is a crazy world if you get into it, but if you read enough, you can start to filter out a lot of the craziness. Then Dental Economics is a really, a great magazine and internet space. Those would probably be the big ones. Then you can find anything on YouTube.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Do you remember any posters on Dentaltown? Specifically that you saw they had a post, you were like, "I'm going to read this one."
Wes Buchman:
Oh, man. I need to get back on there and see.
Jonathan VanHorn:
I haven't been on there in a while either. I should pry be on there more.
Wes Buchman:
I probably just... I don't want to say any names because I'm probably remembering the crazy ones. I don't want to throw them under the bus.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Yeah, that's what I would do too, is I'd probably be like, "Which is the one that you like?" And I'd name one off and it'd be the person who like, well, we just found out they went to the looney bin for some reason.
Wes Buchman:
Yeah, yeah. Right?
Jonathan VanHorn:
Like mix the name up. Okay, cool.
Wes Buchman:
Yeah, let's not throw anyone under the bus by accident.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Sounds good. So Shared Practices is a must. There's Start Your Own Dental Practice, which was the podcast that I had. It's got like 125 hours of content out there. I think that Shared Practices is a little bit more focused on the acquisition process and things like that. So there's definitely episodes of Start Your Dental Practice and I'm sure that people [inaudible 00:47:47] be good. This podcast, the Tooth and Coin Podcast-
Wes Buchman:
When I-
Jonathan VanHorn:
... has a lot of business information on it as well. So Dentaltown forums, reaching out to Dr. Wes and your fellow dentists, and yeah. So it seems like a pretty good recap of information places to go whenever you're getting ready for this process, right?
Wes Buchman:
Yeah. When I get home, I'll see if I have any of those books and I can put it in the podcast notes too, okay? I just can't remember their names.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Absolutely. Yeah, we'll do that. Cool. Dr. Wes, thanks so much for joining us today. For anyone out there that's listening, if you want to... We'll leave a way for you to be contacted in the show notes of the podcast so that you don't have to put out your information all the way there. Again, thank you so much for being so generous with your time and your knowledge and your experience on this. It's been a pleasure getting to talk to you. We may have you back for another episode to dive a little bit deeper into some of the questions. If anyone has questions that they would have liked to had been talked about on this podcast for Dr. Wes, feel free to let us know and maybe on episode number two, we'll be able to do that. So again, thanks Tooth and Coin listeners, thanks Dr. Wes, and we will see you guys next time. Bye.
Wes Buchman:
Thank you.
Jonathan VanHorn:
That's it for today, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Tooth and Coin Podcast. If you are going to be a practice owner or a new practice owner and you're interested in CPA services, head on over to toothandcoin.com where you can check out more about our CPA services. We help out around 250 offices around the country and would love to be able to have the discussion about how we can help your new practice. We do specialize in new practice owners, so people that are about to be the owner of a practice they're acquiring, about to be a owner of a practice they are starting up, or have become an owner in the past five years. That is our specialty. We'd love to be able to talk to you about how we could help you and your services with your tax and accounting services.
Jonathan VanHorn:
If you enjoyed today's episode, again, go to the Facebook group. Talk to us about what we've talked about. Join in on the discussion. Let's create an environment where we can talk about some of these things so that we can all help each other get through these things together so that this adventure of business ownership is more fun, more productive, and better in the long-term.
Jonathan VanHorn:
Lastly, if you want access to those resources that we are currently building, just text the word toothandcoin to 33444. That's toothandcoin, no spaces, T-O-O-T-H-A-N-D-C-O-I-N, to 33444. Reply with your email address. We'll send you instructions to the Facebook group. We'll send you the resources when they're available. We will see you next week.
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