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When you think about resilience, what comes to mind?
Our culture loves narratives about triumphing over hardship. And overcoming pain, heartbreak, and even abuse can make us stronger.
However, uplifting “overcoming” too often comes at the expense of actually examining and addressing the lack of care, protection, and support people had to navigate on their path to resilience. We valorize grit and perseverance at the cost of people’s health and wellbeing, encouraging them to just keep pushing past the point of burnout.
My guest today pulls back the curtain on these narratives of overcoming adversity and building resilience to find that so much of the adversity people face is rooted in how we fail to care for ourselves and each other in our society. Real resilience, she says, isn’t about your own personal toughness; it’s about how we relate to and support each other.
Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning author and activist. She writes and speaks frequently on topics related to gender norms, inclusivity, social justice, free speech, sexualized violence, and technology. She is the author of The Resilience Myth: New Thinking on Grit, Strength, and Growth after Trauma and Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women’s Anger, which was recognized as a Best Book of 2018 by the Washington Post, Fast Company, Psychology Today, and NPR. She has contributed to several anthologies, most recently Free Speech in the Digital Age and Believe Me: How Trusting Women Can Change The World. Soraya is also a co-producer of a WMC #NameItChangeIt PSA highlighting the effects of online harassment on women in politics in America.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Soraya made the connection between our toxic ideology of resilience and how we devalue community support and careHow the idea of “bouncing back” can actually impede change, both personal and socialHow resilience narratives flatten, decontextualize, and depoliticize trauma and recovery Why we need to shift our concept of resilience from individual to communal, cultural, and relationalHow “soldiering on” can perpetuate a lack of options within the systemThe false binaries we have to confront to dismantle the resilience of the status quoHow telling someone they are or need to be resilient shuts down opportunities for real care and supportLearn more about Soraya Chemaly:
WebsiteInstagram: @sorayachemalyThe Resilience Myth: New Thinking on Grit, Strength, and Growth After TraumaRage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's AngerBelieve Me: How Trusting Women Can Change the WorldFree Speech in the Digital AgeLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
EP 72: Identifying and Addressing the Burdens of Individualism with Deran Young & Dick SchwartzEP 113: Curiosity as a Bridge: Uncovering Fears and Building Connections with Scott ShigeokaSeek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the WorldNicked, M. T. AndersonThe Light Eaters: How the Unseen World of Plant Intelligence Offers a New Understanding of Life on Earth, Zoë SchlangerKneecapChallengersSuccession The White Lotus -
As the United States approaches one of the most important elections, many people I know are expressing how the current state of affairs is affecting their work, home life, and overall well-being.
With the stress and the chaos, it would be easy to shut down and ask, “Why bother?”
This is why it feels especially timely to bring back my long-time friend, Iowa state representative and state house minority leader, Jennifer Konfrst, to the podcast.
Whether it's a major election, a looming work deadline, or a personal goal, we all carry heavy responsibilities on top of what's happening in our country. I wanted to talk to Jennifer about how she finds the strength to keep going, even when the victories are hard-won or the losses are break-your-heart big.
Jennifer shares her not-so-secret recipe for staying true to her values and community, staying open and seeking support, which helps her avoid falling into despair and hopelessness.
Her perspective is a source of hope, motivation, and a call to keep fighting that many of us need right now.
Jennifer Konfrst teaches public relations & strategic political communication courses at Drake University in Des Moines, IA. Before joining the Drake journalism faculty in 2013, she worked in public relations for 20 years, most recently at Iowa Public Television.
She also serves as an Iowa House of Representatives member, representing the 43rd district since 2019. She is the House minority leader, a position she has held since 2021, and she is the first woman to hold this position in Iowa.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
What the Iowa Supreme Court ruling on abortion taught Jennifer about showing up even when you’re devastated and angryThe self-care that is essential for Jennifer in the face of setbacks and struggles at the State HouseHow Jennifer builds trust in her leadership with her caucus in her role as House Minority LeaderHow consistently highlighting and celebrating even small wins helps keep people motivatedHow her personal healing work has helped Jennifer allow for disagreement and conflict within her caucusThe challenges of trust with voters, representatives across the aisle, and within her partyThe case for getting and staying engaged in politics, especially at the local levelLearn more about Jennifer Konfrst:
WebsiteInstagram: @KonfrstForHouseTwitter: @KonfrstForHouseLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
EP 114: Why Bother? Navigating Burnout and Rediscovering Purpose with Jennifer LoudenEP 30: Committing to Being an Engaged Leader and Engaged Citizen with Iowa State Rep. Jennifer KonfrstThe Thin Book of Trust: An Essential Primer for Building Trust at Work, Charles FeltmanTaylor Swift - The ManThe Chicks - March MarchThe West WingSchitt’s CreekParks and Recreation -
What prevents you from speaking up?
When you were younger, what was your experience when you spoke up? Were you heard, or were you silenced, ignored, or punished?
The echoes of earlier wounds often shape our ability to speak up. Our ability to speak up is often influenced by the burden of past experiences, whether it's in meetings, public forums, or one-on-one conversations, speaking up can feel like a significant risk when past relational traumas resurface.
Even the most confident leaders may carry fears of rejection, judgment, or failure, stemming from previous experiences of not being heard or valued. We may worry about being misunderstood or feel that our words lack significance.
Embracing your voice, even in the face of uncertainty, is a transformative act. It's a journey towards building more courage and leading in alignment with your values.
Speaking with grounded confidence isn't just about exerting authority; it's about fostering trust, connection, and respect within yourself and with those you lead.
Today’s guest lives the principles she teaches on speaking up and showing up with more power, especially for those who hold identities outside of dominant cultural norms. Her work offers us all a powerful road map for speaking up without exiling our story.
Samara Bay is the author of the best-selling book, Permission to Speak, a revolutionary take on public speaking for the future we want. She is a Los Angeles-based speech coach whose clients range from candidates for US Congress to C-suite executives, change-making entrepreneurs, movie stars, and high school girls. She has led workshops and keynotes for groups across various industries, from significant corporations to nonprofit foundations and academic institutions, and her work has been widely featured in the media.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Samara’s work with emerging political leaders caused her to realize that we need to change the narrative of how authority is “supposed” to soundHow she connects losing her voice in grad school to an internalized shame of sounding “different” that people of non-dominant identities carryWhy we need to shift the narrative to allow authoritative voices to be emotionally honest and vulnerableThe value of using our voices to care out loud and to tell our storiesWhy it’s normal to sound different in various settings, as long as we aren’t compromising our integrityUnpacking common “negative” speech patterns and how they function in our communicationBreaking down the impossible balancing acts of archetypes we expect of women in powerLearn more about Samara Bay:
WebsiteInstagram: @samarabayHow to Show UpConnect on LinkedInPermission to Speak: How to Change What Power Sounds Like, Starting with YouLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
A Court of Thorns and Roses, Sarah J. MaasTaylor Swift - marjorieBridgertonKids IncorporatedThe All New Mickey Mouse ClubMoms Demand ActionEP 90: Engaged and Consistent Leadership: with Moms Demand Action Founder, Shannon Watts -
When was the last time you said, “Why bother?”
When overwhelm, exhaustion, burnout, and the weight of responsibility set in, it's easy to become cynical and ask, "What's the point?"
Cynicism can be a defense mechanism, shielding us from difficult emotions or experiences, but it also traps us in survival mode, limiting our ability to see new possibilities or paths forward.
Constantly being in fight-or-flight mode makes it difficult to think long-term and to rest and reset as needed.
Today, we're exploring what, "Why bother?" really indicates for leaders. It serves as a sign of exhaustion, an overactive nervous system, or even reactivated trauma. Our guest encourages us to transform "Why bother?" from a stuck and cynical question into a productive inquiry that directs us towards what truly matters.
Jennifer Louden invites us to flip the script on “Why bother?” from cynical and stuck to a generative question to lead you toward what really matters to you.
Jennifer has been involved in the self-care movement for years. She authored the bestseller, The Woman’s Comfort Book in 1992 and has since written numerous books on well-being and creative living, including The Woman’s Retreat Book and Why Bother? She enjoys coaching writers and is currently working on a fantasy novel where older women use their power to buy humanity time from the climate crisis.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
Why the “why bother” stage is a normal part of life, and how it presents an opportunity to resetHow holding too tightly to an identity can keep us from seeing possibilities for changeHow exiling and not claiming what we want leads to “why bother”How taking action on the things that matter to us cultivates hopeHow accepting that some things in life are not fixable can liberate us to step into new possibilitiesHow to begin cultivating a relationship with your desiresLearn more about Jennifer Louden:
WebsiteIt's Not Too LateLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
War and Peace, Leo TolstoyFor All MankindWicked Little LettersThe Mary Tyler Moore Show -
How does curiosity show up in your life, work, and relationships?
Does your curiosity influence your strategy or planning? Or do you follow your curiosity to gain more knowledge or deepen your understanding of topics or viewpoints? Do you lean on curiosity to help you get to know someone better in ways that satisfy your interests or deepen your connection?
Do you keep following your curiosity even if it leads to uncomfortable or unknown places?
Our curiosity can reveal much about us, our interests, and our capacity for hope, discomfort, and imagination. But just as important is HOW we use our curiosity.
When we wield our curiosity to prove a point, we can cause division and harm. And when we use curiosity to honor others and our vulnerability, we can build the bridges necessary to cultivate the spaces we dream about and desire.
Today’s guest has combined his own lived experiences and research on curiosity and bridge-building into a powerful, nuanced book and set of practices on curiosity and how we use it in our relationships.
Scott Shigeoka believes curiosity has the power to transform your life and change the world. It's the key to connection, healing, and personal growth. It's a critical practice for your relationships, leadership, and life satisfaction. In his book, Seek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World, Scott teaches readers to strengthen their curiosity muscles with his signature DIVE method.
Scott has appeared on The Today Show, Harvard Business Review, NPR, The Guardian, and CNBC, and he has spoken at Google, Microsoft, Pixar, IDEO, Meta, Airbnb, and universities and schools around the world and teaches at The University of Texas at Austin.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Scott’s cross-country road trip showed in real-time that approaching fears with curiosity builds connection, understanding, and possibilityThe limits and boundaries to approaching others with curiosity in the momentWhy we need to bring curiosity and humility when we catch our own biasesHow social and structural power dynamics influence how we balance curiosity, discomfort, and anger in a groupThree key questions to ask yourself to identify if your curiosity about another person or situation is invasive or predatoryHow letting go of certainty opens up possibilities and allows for growthLearn more about Scott Shigeoka:
WebsiteSeek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the WorldInstagram: @scottshigeokaLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Rising Strong: How the Ability to Reset Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead, Brené BrownThe Making of Another Major Motion Picture Masterpiece, Tom HanksBillie Eilish - LUNCHInside Out 2Beyoncé - RENAISSANCE -
What is your relationship with your dreams?
Not your goals or visions for the future, but the actual dreams that appear when you sleep?
Deepening our understanding of our dreams is not just a trailhead, but a transformative journey to better understanding ourselves, what drives us, what limits us, and what impacts our choices and behaviors.
Today’s guest, Selden “Dee” Kelley, urges us to take the time to reflect on dreams so that we can better understand how our inner systems are processing our present and our past. He reminds us of the profound power of witnessing our subconscious burdens, a process that validates our experiences and our desire to be seen and heard.
Dee is a lifelong learner. He holds five degrees in religion, psychology, an MBA, and a PhD in Industrial Psychology and Organizational Development. He served 18 years as the Pastor of the First Church of the Nazarene in San Diego and held various leadership and administration positions before becoming a pastor.
He has a deep passion for helping others discover the rich guidance that dream work can provide for their journey toward health and wholeness, and helps people connect with the power of their dreams as a pathway toward new insight, better decision-making, and improved creative thinking.
Content Note: Dee draws heavily from Jungian male-female archetypes. I want to note that the discussion of gender expands across the spectrum and is not limited to the male-female binary.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Dee’s approach blends hypotheses of the biological functions of dreaming and uses them in service of greater self-awarenessHow every person’s dreams have an individual dialect Advice for beginning to remember and take note of your dreamsWhy specific interpretation can matter less than the reflections the interpretation leads toHow paying attention to our dreams can help us embrace imaginative, nuanced thinkingDifferentiating between dream crushers and useful contrarian voices, in dreams and awakeLearn more about Dee Kelley:
WebsiteInstagram: @drdeedreamscoachLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
What Dreams May ComeInception -
When you are excited about something, how do you show up?
Do you wear excitement and passion on your sleeve for all to see?
Maybe your personality is more low-key and strategic, and it is less obvious when you're really excited about an idea, a vision, or being a part of something.
Or maybe you adapt and edit yourself, muting your responses to play it cool for fear you won’t be taken seriously.
Yes, it’s essential to consider your role, environment, and audience when you feel energized about something. But if we’re constantly focused on who we should be, how we should act, and what the right thing to say is, it’s hard to have hope and a vision for the future.
Meg Raby Klinghoffer does not feel weighed down by messages about playing it cool and downplaying her excitement and joy anymore. She is emphatically all in with helping others envision how the spaces where we live, work, and play can be inclusive for those with invisible disabilities. She is becoming a contagion to create spaces where we can all be welcome and feel comfortable being ourselves, from concerts to museums to schools and beyond.
Meg is the author of the My Brother Otto series, a Speech-Language Pathologist, a writer for Scary Mommy, and a full-time employee of KultureCity, the nation’s leading nonprofit in sensory inclusion. She is also autistic.
At any given moment, Meg is thinking about how to better love the humans around her and how to create positive change without causing division.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How receiving an autism diagnosis and owning that identity has allowed Meg to advocate for herself more freelyHow to respectfully approach learning more about and supporting the autistic adults in your lifeHow having an autistic community helped Meg let go of old rules and embrace her identityHow KultureCity addresses the need for macro-level change to make spaces more supportive and inclusiveMeg’s vision for moving beyond awareness or acceptance to true inclusionLearn more about Meg Raby Klinghoffer:
KultureCityScary MommyInstagram: @author.meg.rabyLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Somebody's Daughter: A Memoir, Ashley C FordKamala Harris and the Threat of a Woman's Laugh - Sophie Gilbert, The AtlanticWe're Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation, Eric GarciaYung PuebloPost Malone - Hollywood's BleedingLauren Daigle - Rescue3 Body ProblemThe Jacksons: An American Dream -
What sparks your imagination?
What shuts down your capacity to imagine?
Where does your mind go when the stakes are high, and the pressure feels too great? Do you find yourself mentally preparing for the worst possible outcomes, as if you were rehearsing a play? Do you shut down or numb out to manage your fears and anxieties?
Our brains naturally seek comfort in the known or fill in the unknown with potential disasters. However, it takes conscious effort and practice to build the capacity to imagine positive outcomes when things feel bleak.
But we can counter overwhelm and despair by connecting with imaginative individuals who embody hope, curiosity, and possibility grounded in vision and action.
These visionary leaders remind us that something different is possible and that we can choose to take deliberate action to change the prevailing tides.
In this new series of Unburdened Leader conversations, I’ll be in dialogue with leaders who urge us to envision a future that's not just a distant dream, but a reality we can actively shape today.
Over the next few months, you will hear conversations that invite you to take meaningful action here and now that does not deplete but heals and energizes.
These visionary conversations will help you connect with your desire to see a way through the noise and do something different.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
Why this moment feels so vital to share conversations with leaders imagining–and building–a more moral and just worldA taste of upcoming topics of conversation, from invisible disabilities to reframing resilience as a collective undertakingEssential steps for building and protecting your capacity to hope and imagine in trying timesLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
EP 02: How Self-Leadership Saves You From The Relentless Drive To Succeed with Dr. Richard SchwartzEP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar Barstow -
What does it mean to you to live a life with no regrets? Is that even possible?
What if it’s less about avoiding regrets entirely and more about being clear on your values, dreams, and desires and combining that with intentional practices to build a life focused on things that matter to you and the world around you?
Of course, this takes work because we’re constantly pulled in many different directions and responding to many inputs, just trying to keep our heads above water.
To lead well, we must get clarity in our values and develop trusting relationships with our inner worlds and physical bodies.
Instead of chasing a life with zero regrets, we need to learn to respond well to our regrets in the moment. If we want to look back and feel good about how we responded, we can’t numb out or bypass; we must make amends and correct our course.
Today’s conversation is with a long-time friend and colleague who reminds us that living an aligned life is a meandering path, a life that is always stretched and tested. It's not always easy, but when we stay connected to our values, desires, and integrity, there can be ease and clarity even in the hard times.
Molly Mahar is the founder of Stratejoy, a community helping women reclaim intimate, honest, and joyful relationships with themselves for the good of all. She's an entrepreneur, mama, writer, and adventurer obsessed with designing personal experiments that scare you, telling the truth, and her new teardrop trailer. In this episode, Molly shares her journey of living an aligned life, her struggles, and the lessons she learned along the way.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Molly prepared, financially and emotionally, to embark on a year of travel and a major move with her familyHow relocating on their return may have actually made it easier for Molly to integrate her experiencesWhat putting their lives on hold and being together 24/7 revealed about Molly’s relationship with her husband, their parenting choices, and how they handle conflictThe support and practices that helped Molly get back in alignment Unpacking her complicated relationship with alcohol and why she knew she needed to get sober for goodThe core questions that Molly used to guide her self-reflection throughout the tripLearn more about Molly Mahar:
StratejoyInstagram: @stratejoy, @mollymaharLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
EP 107: The Seasons of Entrepreneurship: Leading a Deliberate Life with Laura RoederBetween Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted, Suleika JaouadBirnam Wood, Eleanor CattonYou, Again, Kate GoldbeckPaper Planes - Radio UpMAGIC! – Good Feeling About YouNyadThe Idea of YouSaved by the Bell -
What do you want to be known for? And what actions do you take to be seen in that light?
What lengths do you go to to avoid being misunderstood and viewed differently than what you want to be known for?
What drives what you want to be known for, and what are your choices to uphold your desired image or reputation?
Most of us have multiple internal agendas that shape our decisions and how we show up and are seen by others and ourselves. Our values, fears, and burdens, internally and externally, drive us.
When we place our worth and safety solely in the hands of others, we go to great lengths to hold on to how we want to be perceived. Lengths that too often leave a wake of chaos, abuse of power, manipulation, and betrayal–all to maintain the illusion of control.
We need more leaders who give us hope and reverence for humanity and others. These leaders do the work to build their capacity for discomfort so that they can lead with conviction, humility, and a deep sense of connectedness bigger than their personal ambitions or fears.
Joining us today is a guest who embodies the principles we discuss on this podcast. Dee Kelley is a leader who leads with love and compassion, demonstrating the power of these qualities in leadership. Our conversation with Dee is a reminder that compassion and empathy are not signs of weakness, but rather, tools for personal growth and resilience.
Selden “Dee” Kelley is a lifelong learner and a beacon of knowledge. With five degrees, his academic prowess is unmatched. He served 18 years as the Pastor of the First Church of the Nazarene in San Diego, demonstrating his deep understanding of faith and its intersection with personal development.
A driving force in his life is to help others discover the rich guidance that dream work can provide for their journey toward health and wholeness. He now helps people connect with the power of their dreams as a pathway toward new insight, better decision-making and improved creative thinking.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
Why Dee wanted to open a conversation about the relationship between the LGTBQIA+ community and the church, and why he has no regrets despite the consequencesHow Dee came to realize that the things he feared in others were invitations for learning and growthWhy we need to commit to having hard conversations even when we don’t know the outcomeHow a strong sense of values and identity apart from his position in the church softened the loss of his role and credentialsHow Dee’s case sits in the larger context of faith communities grappling with and declaring how they will relate to LGBTQIA+ communitiesLearn more about Dee Kelley:
WebsiteInstagram: @drdeedreamscoachLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
The Daring Way™EP 02: How Self-Leadership Saves You From The Relentless Drive To Succeed with Dr. Richard SchwartzA Hope For ChangeWhy We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams, Matthew WalkerAstridWomen Talking -
What are you deliberate about in your life?
What does living deliberately mean to you?
Would you say that you’re a deliberate person? Would those who know you say that you are deliberate in how you live your life and lead?
Living deliberately can be a real challenge, especially when we’re constantly dealing with unexpected issues and navigating through the many crises in our world. The pace of life is so fast, it often feels impossible to slow down and reflect before taking action.
But there’s something deeply important about being deliberate if we want to cultivate life, work, and relationships that align with our values. It is messy, awkward, and challenging, but it is so worth it.
Today’s guest has built a career that serves her personal needs, values, interests, and skills through deliberate action, even when it flies in the face of conventional wisdom about entrepreneurship.
Our guest today, Laura Roeder, is a true inspiration. She's a lifelong entrepreneur and the founder of several bootstrapped companies that have each reached multi-million dollar status. Her ventures include Paperbell, CoachCompare, MeetEdgar, Marie Forleo’s B-School, and LKR Social Media. She's been recognized as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs under 30 and has shared her insights on entrepreneurship at prestigious venues like the White House, the Virgin Unites Branson Centre of Entrepreneurship, the University of Southern California, and Loyola Marymount University.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How Laura’s desire for time freedom has impacted her decision-making as a business ownerHow launching a business immediately before having her first child fundamentally changed the way Laura has run every venture sinceWhy leaders need to let go of the belief that they can’t teach someone else to do what they do How owning up to your mistakes and the steps you’ve taken to fix them builds trustHow Laura has navigated her desire to work and to lead after selling a company for a life-changing amount of moneyLearn more about Laura Roeder:
BlogPaperbellInstagram: @bypaperbellLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
The One Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth about Extraordinary Results, Gary KellerNo, Wealth is Not a Measure of Value CreationExit Interview: The Life and Death of My Ambitious Career, Kristi CoulterFlorence and the MachineLove is BlindSaved by the BellWaking Up -
Do you have thoughts about how the word “trauma” and other therapy-speak terms have bled into our day-to-day conversations in person, at work, and on social media?
Do you feel pressure to perform being “okay,” even when you’re anything but?
Have you ever pursued a project or career milestone only to realize, once you achieved it, that it no longer fits your life, values, or interests?
Today’s guest is a long-time, respected colleague who joins me for a profound and thought-provoking conversation about all of the above and then some. It’s a privilege to have people with whom we can engage in deep conversations without hesitation or self-editing; this chat is no exception.
Our guest, Sarah Buino, is a renowned speaker, educator, and therapist. She is the founder of Head/Heart Therapy, Inc. and Head/Heart Business Therapy, and a member of the adjunct faculty at Loyola University Chicago. Sarah is also a podcast host, known for her series, ‘Conversations With a Wounded Healer' and 'The Burnt Out Practice Owner.’ Her work focuses on the role of personal healing in caregiving and the challenges of group therapy practice ownership.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How the concept of ordinary trauma helped Sarah recognize what was and wasn’t her responsibility as she healedThe essential difference between discomfort and trauma and how it relates to our relationship with agencyWhy being “okay” is just a data point, not a destinationHow mindful awareness sets the stage for healing, regardless of modalityWhy Sarah maintains that therapy is political and that we have to lead through values and relationshipsHow Sarah and her colleagues brought their values into their group practiceHow Sarah came to realize that she was done owning her practice and ready to move onLearn more about Sarah Buino:
Head/Heart Business TherapyInstagram: @HeadHeartBizTherapyConversations with a Wounded Healer PodcastThe SarahsLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
How trauma became the word of the decade — and the Covid-19 pandemic - VoxWhat is NARM?Farewell, Strategic Accommodation, An Elegy to White Supremacy by Sarah SuzukiDecolonizing Therapy for Black Folk 2024Politicizing Your PracticeLiving In The Tension: The Quest for a Spiritualized Racial Justice, Shelley TochlukOlivia Rodrigo - vampireThe Secret of Skinwalker RanchSaved by the Bell -
What does healing mean to you?
What expectations do you hold around how we heal and how quickly we heal?
Meeting our basic human need to be loved and experience belonging can be the root of many things we do, say, and want–for better or for worse.
Many of us have experienced relationships that shape how we pursue love and belonging, how we respond to folks who are different or have differences, how we handle conflict, and how we navigate not being perfect and not knowing all the answers.
So, how we seek love and belonging and perceive and pursue healing are inextricably connected.
Under those circumstances, we want to rush our healing process, achieve our desired changes, and be fixed as soon as possible. The stakes are high!
But we do not arrive at “healed” and coast for the rest of our lives. There is no three-step plan to change, heal, and thrive ever after.
Healing is a lifelong process that must be pursued and revisited with the ebbs and flows of our lives. Sometimes, those ebbs and flows feel like tsunamis, forcing us to revisit old wounds or discover new spaces in our stories that require our care and attention so that we can find love and belonging within, first and foremost.
Frank Anderson, MD, returns to the show to discuss his beautiful new book, To Be Loved: A Story of Truth, Trauma, and Transformation.
Frank Anderson, MD, completed his residency and was a clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. He is an author, psychiatrist, therapist, speaker, and trauma specialist who’s spent the past three decades studying neuroscience and trauma treatment. He is passionate about teaching brain-based psychotherapy and integrating current neuroscience knowledge with the IFS therapy model. His published work spans contributions to literature and training for a clinical audience and works accessible to the general public.
Content Warning: We cover some heavy topics around verbal and physical abuse, conversion therapy, and suicidal ideation. Please take care as you listen to this conversation.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How the process of writing his memoir caused Frank to interact with his past in ways that surprised himThe tricky balance of telling stories honestly but from a loving place, especially with his familyHow releasing his anger and coming to forgive and love people who harmed him gave Frank space and freedom to forgive himself for the harm he has doneWhy Frank says healing happens first emotionally and somatically within yourself, and then you can work towards relational healing and forgivenessHow different phases of Frank’s life have influenced what and how trauma he unpacked and releasedWhy do we have to stop clinging to divisive polarities and recognize the good and bad in ourselves and each otherLearn more about Frank Anderson, MD:
WebsiteInstagram: @frank_andersonmdFacebook: @mdfrankandersonConnect on LinkedInTo Be Loved: A Story of Truth, Trauma, and TransformationTranscending Trauma: Healing Complex Ptsd with Internal Family SystemsLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
Open Monogamy: A Guide to Co-Creating Your Ideal Relationship Agreement, Tammy NelsonConan Gray - HeatherP!NK - TRUSTFALLFellow Travelers -
If you love, you experience loss.
Looking back over the last few years, who or what have you lost? A loved one, a friendship, a relationship, a pet, a job, your health, your community? Something else?
Have you had time to reflect on and grieve your losses and find meaning and sense in all you experienced?
And how do you talk about your losses with those around you, if at all?
We cannot engineer the experience of grief out of our lives, but many try, at a significant cost, to their well-being, their relationships, and their ability to function, connect, and lead.
Grief will always do its job regardless of our response to grief’s presence. And the more we try to avoid the heartbreak, mess, awkwardness, outrage, and vulnerability, the more we disconnect from our humanity and those around us.
So, the question for us is: How will we respond when grief comes knocking in our personal lives, work, and world?
Joon ‘J.S.’ Park is a hospital chaplain, former atheist/agnostic, sixth-degree black belt, suicide survivor, and Korean-American, a person of faith and valuer of all.
He is the author of As Long As You Need: Permission to Grieve, part hospital chaplain experience and memoir, and The Voices We Carry: Finding Your One True Voice in a World of Clamor and Noise.
J.S. currently serves at a top-ranked, 1,000+ bed hospital and was a chaplain for three years at one of the largest nonprofit charities for the unhoused on the East Coast.
Content note: This conversation covers topics around sexual abuse, suicide, and experiences of racism. Joon’s message and heart feel healing and gracious as he shares some tender issues. But please take care of yourself as you move through this beautiful conversation.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The physical toll of unacknowledged accumulated grief that J.S. took on through his chaplaincy trainingHow contending with pervasive and severe suffering daily challenged and reshaped J.S.’s faithHow he began to grapple with his experiences of abuse, racism and internalized shameWhy we need to learn to engage with a range of grief and validate our responses to it to healWhat we can learn about others when they use clichés and platitudes in response to griefHow working closely with grief has changed J.S.’s concept of what it means to be successfulLearn more about J.S. Park:
Instagram: @jspark3000Facebook: @jspark3000As Long As You Need: Permission to GrieveThe Voices We Carry: Finding Your One True Voice in a World of Clamor and NoiseLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Meditations of the Heart, Howard ThurmanWhat We Kept to Ourselves, Nancy Jooyoun KimThe Last Story of Mina Lee, Nancy Jooyoun KimDeparturesAndorBeyond the Infinite Two Minutes -
Are you aware of all the expectations you hold yourself to?
The day-to-day buzzing of our inner life can feel relentless, can't it? We're all too familiar with the bombardment of 'shoulds' about how we should act, dress, talk, move, etc. It's a struggle that resonates with each one of us, making us feel understood in our shared experiences.
We carry so many shoulds from our family of origin, culture, difficult life experiences, work experiences, people we respect, and people who we want to respect us.
But the shoulds that mess with us the most and lead to the heaviest burdens are the stealth shoulds around what we should and should not feel.
Today’s guest, Dr. Alison Cook, returns for the third time to share her transformative new book. This isn't just a guide that addresses these 'shoulds ', it's an empowering invitation to unpack our stealth expectations of ourselves and our world. It's an invitation to approach the 'shoulds' that show up in our lives with curiosity and compassion, paving the way for personal growth and self-improvement.
Dr. Alison Cook is a psychologist and teacher who has spent two decades helping individuals name what's hard and take brave steps to transform their lives. She is also a best-selling author, teacher, and host of The Best of You podcast. She co-authored Boundaries for Your Soul and is the author of The Best of You, and I Shouldn’t Feel This Way. Alison is also a certified Internal Family Systems therapist, a dear friend, and a trusted colleague.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The internal tension and disorientation Alison experienced when she couldn’t accomplish what she “should” haveHow following her system’s lead led Alison to make a surprising connection to another pivotal transition in her lifeUnpacking the familial and cultural origins of our shoulds around work and successThe high personal and social stakes of not making space to name what we’re feeling Why it’s vital to be able to discern who can best support you in processing what you’re going throughHow to cultivate space for yourself to witness the hard things, rather than bypassing from naming to fixingLearn more about Alison Cook, PhD:
WebsiteThe Best of You PodcastInstagram: @dralisoncookI Shouldn’t Feel This WayLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Ep 50: Embracing the Hot Mess: A Special Anniversary Episode with Alison Cook, PhDEP 25: The Boundary Barriers of Leadership with Psychologist and Author Alison Cook, PhDNotes to Myself: My Struggle to Become a Person, Hugh PratherDaily Affirmation: Valentine's Day - Saturday Night LiveCircle of Grace: A Book of Blessings for the Seasons, Jan RichardsonBob Marley & The Wailers - Redemption SongBob Marley: One LoveFriendsPretty in Pink -
Many of us are familiar with the kind of person who easily earns the moniker ‘toxic’ and instills fear, rage, and frustration in those around them.
What do you do when you work with a toxic leader?
How do you feel when toxic leaders continue to get promoted and receive accolades?
And what do you do when others make excuses for these toxic leaders, like saying their skill set or network is too important to the organization and you have to “take the good with the bad?”
Toxic leaders and cultures take a toll on you, especially when you have your own relational wounding history. You may try to speak up or feel shut down, but there’s another common theme: How betrayed you feel when your experiences are met with silence, inaction, or retribution.
We're at a critical moment regarding leading, accountability, and culture. But one thing that still feels constant is the impact of our history with relational wounding and relational trauma, and how that impacts how, or if, we speak up in the face of injustices from toxic leaders and toxic work culture.
Today’s guest wrote a book on the impact of toxic leaders and cultures, including how we often protect toxic leaders at great expense to the staff and the business. As someone who was bullied both as a child and in the workplace, she has some very special insight into this all-too-common experience.
Mita Mallick is a corporate change-maker with a track record of transforming businesses. She has had an extensive career as a marketer in the beauty and consumer product goods space, fiercely advocating for the inclusion and representation of Black and Brown communities. Her book, Reimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your Workplace, is a Wall Street Journal and USA Today Best Seller.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The practical toll on the business of enabling toxic leaders to continue to manage teamsThe psychological and physical impact of the workplace trauma created by working under toxic leadersHow people end up in environments that recreate the harmful relational patterns of their pastWhy those with more power in the workplace need to speak up on behalf of othersHow executive coaching can be used as a Band-Aid to cover toxic behaviorHow guilt and empathy for the teammates we’d leave behind can keep us stuck in toxic environmentsLearn more about Mita Mallick:
Connect with Mita on LinkedInBrown Table Talk PodcastReimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your WorkplaceLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email.Resources:
Glossy: Ambition, Beauty, and the Inside Story of Emily Weiss's Glossier, Marisa MeltzerSia - UnstoppableBreaking Bad -
Do you feel frustrated by recurring struggles with self-doubt, hypervigilance, and overwhelm?
Behind many of your inner doubts, self-judgements, fears, and insecurities lie echoes from old betrayals or relational hurts.
These breaches of trust in important relationships don’t necessarily lose their impact on how you lead and work just because they happened a long time ago.
So when you're doing something new or high stakes, or there's an experience in a relationship at work or in your personal life, or you respond to a collective trauma that taps the echoes of your old wound, it can bring up old ways of responding or old patterns that impact how you honor your boundaries and values.
And the expectation that you should ‘be over this by now’ when you are human and working with others adds to your stress and frustration.
But the reality is that healing from relational wounds and betrayal traumas often comes in stages and seasons, and you may need support along the way.
Deran Young is a licensed therapist, New York Times Best-Selling Author, former military mental health officer, and the founder of Black Therapists Rock. This nonprofit organization mobilizes over 30,000 mental health professionals committed to reducing the psychological impact of systemic oppression and intergenerational trauma.
She obtained her social work degree from the University of Texas, where she studied abroad in Ghana, West Africa for two semesters, creating a high school counseling center for under-resourced students. She is a highly sought-after diversity and inclusion consultant working with companies like Facebook, Linked In, Field Trip Health, and YWCA. Deran has become a leading influencer and public figure committed to spreading mental health awareness and improving health equity.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The importance of learning to recognize the cultural and familial legacy burdens that impact usHow shame and an inability to be vulnerable shut down speaking the truth about cultural and personal historiesHow early relational trauma can lead people to feeling out of place, not just at home, but in the world at largeWhy our earliest experiences with our caregivers have such a deep impact on our relationships later in lifeThe lasting impact of the roles we take on as children in dysfunctional families in how we lead ourselves and othersHow cultural expectations and perfectionism can dehumanize mothers and leadersThe potential for psychedelic-assisted therapy to change our relationships with our burdensLearn more about Deran Young:
Black Therapists RockInstagram: @blacktherapistsrockTikTok: @blacktherapistsrockBlack Therapists Rock Facebook GroupFollow Deran on FacebookLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional FamiliesThe Happiest Baby on the Block: The New Way to Calm Crying and Help Your Newborn Baby Sleep Longer, Harvey KarpThe Gifts of Imperfection, Brené BrownDaring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead, Brené BrownRage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger, Soraya ChemalyEP 73: The Potential of Psychedelics to Help and Heal with Victor CabralWhole Brain Living: The Anatomy of Choice and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life, Jill Bolte TaylorBeyoncé - COZYElemental -
Have you ever done something steadily, week in and week out, for a period of time?
What did you learn about yourself and the world around you in the process? Was there anything that came up that surprised you?
Putting in consistent reps and hundreds of hours towards something inevitably shapes and changes you, and producing this show has been no different for me.
Today I’m celebrating the 100th episode of The Unburdened Leader by sharing some behind-the-scenes stories, learnings, and reflections from starting a podcast in a pandemic to the pillars and themes of the show that have stood out over time.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How unburdened leaders shape healing and growth through vulnerability and a willingness to be uncomfortableHow wrestling with perfectionism in the beginning has eased into taking actual pleasure in the process of working on the showThe positive impact of finding certainty anchors in the rhythms of productionHow good questions beget good questions, and how that guides who I want to have on the showLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Yellow House MediaInternal Family SystemsGlass Onion -
Have you ended a relationship to get relief from tension and conflict?
Do you struggle with developing a clear sense of boundaries around what’s your responsibility and what’s not, especially when feeling responsible for how others think and feel?
When relationships are toxic, abusive, and oppressive and the other person does not have the interest or capacity to work on the relationship, ending the relationship can bring grief but also relief, emotional healing, and health.
But when you regularly use emotional cutoffs to protect yourself from hurt and discomfort, you create a world that feels dangerous and small when the slightest sense of conflict or overwhelm arises.
But if two people can come together with clear boundaries, shared values, compassion, curiosity, humility, and support to work through conflict and disagreement, an emotional cut-off may become unnecessary.
My guest today returns to the podcast to share his experience of an incident that could have ended his relationship with his father, and how they both committed to working through the conflict to maintain their connection, even through their differences.
Jonathan Merritt is a prolific and trusted writer on faith, culture, and politics whose articles have appeared regularly in outlets such as The Atlantic, The New York Times, USA Today, Christianity Today, and The Washington Post. He is the author of numerous critically acclaimed books, including Learning to Speak God from Scratch: Why Sacred Words are Vanishing and How We Can Revive Them, which was named Book of the Year by Englewood Review of Books. He is also author of the forthcoming children’s book, My Guncle and Me, releasing in May 2024.
Jonathan has become a popular speaker at conferences, colleges, and churches and guest commentary on CNN, Fox News, CNN, NPR, PBS, and ABC World News. He holds graduate degrees from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Emory University's Candler School of Theology.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
How being publicly outed forced Jonathan into a reckoning with his faith, his identity, and his family and communityThe role that dreams and expectations play in the way both parents and children respond to fundamental differences between themWhy an expectation of change cannot be a prerequisite for a relationshipWhy Jonathan says he and his father fight with each other in private and for each other in publicWhy finding healthy surrogates or outlets for processing is vital for healing when we truly can’t continue the relationshipNavigating past avoidance and confrontation to renegotiating the relationship with necessary boundaries and guardrailsHow “flash-card faith” stifles the questioning and openness to possibilities that underpin trust and faith and breeds binary divisivenessLearn more about Jonathan Merritt:
WebsiteFacebook: @JonathanMerrittWriterInstagram: @jonathan_merrittTwitter: @JonathanMerrittLearning to Speak God from Scratch: Why Sacred Words Are Vanishing–and How We Can Revive ThemPreorder My Guncle and MeLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
Bowen Family SystemsFaith does not live by answers alone, Jonathan MerrittThe Artist's Way, Julia CameronWrite for Life: Creative Tools for Every Writer, Julia CameronMother, Nature: A 5,000-Mile Journey to Discover If a Mother and Son Can Survive Their Differences, Jedidiah JenkinsDarlin' (Christmas is Coming), Over the RhineIf We Make It Through December, Phoebe BridgersIf We Make It Through December, Merle HaggardJulia -
What is your relationship with conflict and disagreement?
Do you see conflict as bad or dangerous or simply a natural part of relationships and being in a group or on a team?
What helps you move through conflict and differences of opinion when things are heavy and charged?
Do you avoid it at all costs? Or do you try to be a peacemaker and help everyone feel heard? Or do you dive right into the arena and take a stand for what you believe?
You probably vacillate between all of these depending on the topic, the people you are around, how you experienced conflict growing up, and the combination of your unique personality, temperament, gender, race, class, etc.
Today’s guest shares a framework that offers a way to contain our overwhelm into some actionable practices that can help you connect to your purpose and your values while navigating the discomfort of disagreement, high-stakes decisions, and deep exhaustion.
Deepa Iyer is a South Asian American writer, strategist, and lawyer. Deepa leads projects on solidarity and social movements at the Building Movement Project, a national nonprofit organization. She conducts workshops and trainings, uplifts narratives through the Solidarity Is This podcast, and facilitates solidarity strategy for cohorts and networks.
Deepa’s first book, We Too Sing America: South Asian, Arab, Muslim, and Sikh Immigrants Shape Our Multiracial Future, chronicles community-based histories in the wake of 9/11 and received a 2016 American Book Award. Deepa’s most recent book, a guide based on the social change ecosystem map that she created, is called Social Change Now: A Guide for Reflection and Connection.
Listen to the full episode to hear:
The three main components of an ecosystem-based approach to social changeHow an ecosystem creates a container where we can have uncomfortable conversations around our valuesWhy a clash in values isn’t an indicator of an unhealthy ecosystemHow ecosystems for social justice allow us to play to our strengths even in urgent times sustainablyQuestions to ask and red flags of an unhealthy ecosystemWhy finding joy in the midst of heartbreak is essential to sustainable movementsWhy it’s key to consider who holds power inside and outside an ecosystem when calling out bad behavior or policyLearn more about Deepa Iyer:
WebsiteSolidarity Is This PodcastWe Too Sing America: South Asian, Arab, Muslim, and Sikh Immigrants Shape Our Multiracial FutureSocial Change Now: A Guide for Reflection and ConnectionInstagram: @deepaviyerX: @dviyerLearn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:
(Un)known Project TrailSolidarity Is This: Truth Telling From The Banks of the Ohio River with Hannah Drake and Josh MillerMeena AlexanderHonor, Thrity UmrigarThe Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917-2017, Rashid KhalidiThe Mountain Goats - This YearBorgenThe Outsiders, S.E. HintonNothing Gold Can Stay, Robert FrostThe Social Change MapBuilding Movement Project - Visa fler
