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Take a look at any job description today--either in your organization or posted to a job board--and you might notice that it's not entirely accurate, especially for communications and marketing roles. It's almost as if they're created to fit into a system of some kind....oh wait, they are. Job descriptions, from the simple to the complex, are often nothing more than checklists designed for ease of processing and evaluation. They're meant to be a set of shaped holes; our experiences are the pegs that must fit. But what happens when AI fills some of those holes? Or when AI-enabled employees expand their roles and contributions in new, innovative directions, and their pegs no longer fit? What happens to employee engagement and corporate culture as disruption becomes the norm?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with tech entrepreneur-turned-communicator Pinaki Kathiari, CEO of digital communications agency Local Wisdom, to explore the evolving landscape of work in the digital age. As AI continues to revolutionize industries, Dan and Pinaki discuss the obsolescence of conventional job descriptions and the potential for AI to serve as a co-creator in our professional lives.
Pinaki shares his unique journey from a UX and web design specialist to a leader in digital transformation, emphasizing the intersection of technology, employee experience, and corporate culture. He and Dan examine how AI can empower individuals to transcend traditional roles, fostering creativity and innovation in unexpected ways.
Together, they explore the potential effects of AI on recruitment, performance reviews, and organizational structures, questioning how companies can adapt to a future where roles are fluid and dynamic. Pinaki also highlights the importance of internal communications and employee engagement in building a resilient corporate culture that thrives amidst change.
Whether you're a tech enthusiast, a communications professional, or simply curious about the future of work, this episode offers valuable insights into how AI is reshaping our professional landscape. Tune in to learn how you can harness these changes to enhance your career and contribute to a more human-centric workplace.
Listen in and hear about...
The evolving nature of job descriptions and roles in the age of AI, challenging traditional career paths. How AI serves as a co-creator and innovation engine, reshaping work efficiency and creativity. The critical role of internal communications in boosting employee engagement and creating a thriving corporate culture in the age of AI. The impact of AI on intellectual workers and the potential for redefining roles and responsibilities. Challenges and opportunities in adapting corporate structures to accommodate new technologies and employee-driven innovation. The importance of mindfulness and proactive communication in leadership to prevent burnout and foster a supportive work environment.Notable Quotes
On Job Descriptions and AI: "Job descriptions and roles as we know them are obsolete. That's right, I said it. They're obsolete. I'm talking about comms and marketing roles. But I think the same thing can be said for most of the so-called knowledge workers today."
— Dan Nestle [00:00 - 00:20]
On AI's Role in Work: "AI is an innovation engine. It should enable us to not only be more efficient, it should and will increasingly be a co-creator and co-explorer, helping us to change the way we work and what we produce and even the nature of what we can contribute."
— Dan Nestle [00:28 - 00:45]
On the Transition to Internal Comms: "We saw that they're just not getting the same amount of love from a resourcing perspective as external communications and marketing."
— Pinaki Kathiari [08:17 - 08:27]
On the Impact of AI: "The amount of power that we've had before AI in our back pockets was astounding compared to like 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Now with the advent of AI on top of that stuff, it's, it's. We could code on the fly, we could design on the fly, we could write on the fly, we could ask questions and learn on the fly without having to do much."
— Pinaki Kathiari [20:07 - 20:30]
On the Future of Work: "I think it's going to get much, much more messier before it gets better. And you got to kind of like learn things. And it's going to take some people, you know, some companies who are like leading to kind of push through and test things out."
— Pinaki Kathiari [35:50 - 36:02]
On Being Human at Work: "I hope having a machine intellect might help us be more human and treat each other more like humans and not machines, which we've been doing all this time."
— Pinaki Kathiari [39:25 - 39:45]
On Corporate Culture: "I think we have to be careful of just how we treat people. So I think if I kind of go with it as, like, whether you're performing high or performing low, we want to work with you to get to where we think you should be or you think you should be."
— Pinaki Kathiari [50:14 - 50:36]
Resources & Links
Dan Nestle
Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterPinaki Kathiari
Pinaki Kathiari | LinkedIn Local Wisdom | Website Resource Hero | Website Pinaki Kathiari | TwitterTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Job Descriptions and Roles (00:13 - 01:14)
Daniel Nestle asserts that traditional job descriptions in communications and marketing are becoming obsolete. Emphasizes that AI acts as an innovation engine, enabling new ways of working beyond fixed job roles.🤝 Employee Engagement and Culture Change (01:43 - 04:01)
Pinaki Kathiari, CEO of Local Wisdom, discusses his background in UX and how it led him to focus on employee experience and internal communications. Highlights the importance of connecting employee experience with brand outcomes.💡 Transformation of Internal Communications (08:08 - 10:01)
Pinaki Kathiari explains the evolution of internal communications roles and the need for better resource allocation compared to external communications. Discusses his personal experience in implementing culture change within Local Wisdom.🔄 Changing Nature of Work and AI's Role (19:16 - 22:15)
Daniel Nestle discusses how AI can handle baseline tasks, allowing employees to focus on more creative and strategic work. Stresses the importance of adapting corporate structures to accommodate these changes.📊 Performance Reviews and Accountability (44:15 - 46:10)
Daniel Nestle critiques traditional performance reviews and the challenges of holding employees accountable in a rapidly changing work environment. Suggests that organizations need to rethink how they measure success and contributions.🌱 Future of Corporate Culture (56:57 - 59:53)
Pinaki Kathiari emphasizes the need for organizations to support employees' passions and interests rather than confining them to rigid job descriptions. Advocates for a more flexible approach to career development, allowing employees to explore various roles and responsibilities.🔍 Mindfulness in Leadership (1:05:00 - 1:07:21)
Pinaki Kathiari highlights the importance of mindfulness for leaders to ensure they are not overwhelming employees with new initiatives. Encourages leaders to check in with their teams before implementing changes to avoid burnout.📅 Planning for Change (1:03:20 - 1:04:22)
Daniel Nestle suggests that organizations should shift from annual planning to shorter, more agile planning cycles to adapt to rapid changes in the workplace. Emphasizes the need for flexibility in goals and accountability as technology evolves.Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)
0:00 Intro
5:12 Early Career Insights
7:39 Career Path
12:45 Transition Challenges
18:16 Job Descriptions
23:30 Evolving Roles
27:10 AI's Impact
33:47 Creativity and Technology
39:25 Human Experience
45:08 Workplace Culture
50:13 Team Dynamics
56:22 Leadership Styles
1:02:01 Mindfulness in Leadership
1:07:30 Future Outlook
1:11:55 Conclusion
(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
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So many of us--especially communicators--struggle to make the case when it counts. Sure, you may have all the facts at your fingertips, and there's no doubt you feel strongly about your point of view. But when you get to the boardroom, the interview, or any meeting for that matter, are you in the conversation or on the sidelines? Are your contributions making an impact? Do you have a seat at the table?
Perhaps you're missing a key ingredient in your leadership cocktail: Influence.
Join host Dan Nestle as he welcomes author, teacher, strategist, and recognized authority on influence in PR and Communications, Deirdre Breakenridge, back to the show to help us understand what influence means to our profession - and how we can cultivate this critical quality. Discover how Deirdre's FEEL model (Face your fears, Engage with empathy, live with Ethics, unleash the Love) has transformed into the Influential Communicator framework, emphasizing the importance of emotional intelligence (EQ), authenticity, and ethical conduct in building trust and relationships.
Deirdre shares practical insights on the critical skills needed to wield influence effectively, the challenges communicators face in adopting new technologies like AI, and the importance of maintaining core human skills amidst digital advancements. She and Dan talk about the potential for AI to support and augment our ability to influence and what that might mean for the future of work, especially in communications. As an example, she talks about Facial Impact Quotient (FIQ), her innovative AI tool that analyzes facial expressions to enhance communication effectiveness, and how it can be a game-changer for professionals seeking to improve their presentation skills.
Whether you're a seasoned communicator or new to the field, this episode is relevant. It offers valuable lessons on enhancing your influence, building trust, and confidently navigating the future of communications. Tune in to understand how you can leverage your unique skills to lead--and influence--in the ever-evolving landscape of AI and Communications.
Listen In and Hear About.... The evolving role of communications professionals in the context of AI and technology, emphasizing the need for leadership in its adoption. The importance of influence over self-promotion, focusing on building trust and credibility within organizations. Introduction of the "Influential Communicator" model, highlighting its components of empathy, ethics, and effective communication. Challenges faced by communicators in adapting to new technologies and the significance of emotional intelligence, authenticity, and ethical conduct. The impact of technology, particularly AI and facial recognition, on communication, and the limitations of AI in interpreting emotional cues. Development of human skills to enhance relationships and influence, including the use of tools to understand emotional signals. Resources and training opportunities for developing emotional intelligence and influence skills, aligning personal priorities with organizational goals.Notable Quotes
"You can't have a relationship if you don't feel. If you're in PR and communications, the relationship is everything. How do you advance conversations?" — Deirdre Breckenridge [03:58 - 04:03] "Influence is your ability to move someone in the direction that you desire, an action that you'd like them to take, a way that they're going to participate with you." — Deirdre Breckenridge [13:27 - 13:34] "You're not going to influence many people if you don't have confidence in who you are or what you're doing. You have to be fully present, aligned, and believing." - Deirdre Breckenridge [00:16:52] "Emotional intelligence plays a part of it, your authenticity. I also think your contribution score when you're speaking, how much value do you add?" — Deirdre Breckenridge [19:21 - 19:30] "Empathy is on different levels. And I think you have to break down the levels of empathy to truly understand where you are with the person who you're trying to influence." — Deirdre Breckenridge [22:56 - 23:05] "You certainly can't even get to a place of empathy. You don't have the deep listening. Listening is always the number one." — Deirdre Breckenridge [29:53 - 30:00] "Technology, as helpful as it is, can be a huge distraction because the screen time, we're constantly getting stimulated by what we see." — Deirdre Breckenridge [36:12 - 36:20] "Your brain has to be calm in order for you to be verbally fluent. If your brain is spinning because of all the technology and the excitement and the dopamine hits, you can't get the words out." - Dan Nestle [00:37:37] "You don't want somebody building trust with the CEO for you. You're going to do that. So using it to our benefit." — Deirdre Breckenridge [42:01 - 42:08] "We need more work on our human skills because better relationships are built on trust, and trust gets you to influence." - Deirdre Breckenridge [00:46:04]Resources & Links
Dan Nestle
Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterDeirdre Breakenridge
Deirdre Breakenridge | LinkedIn Deirdre Breakenridge | Website The Influential Communicator | Newsletter Facial Impact Quotient | AI Facial Expressions Tool Deirdre Breakenridge Books | Amazon Author PageTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎤 AI Adoption in Communications (00:13 - 01:39)
Discussed insights from a recent conference on AI adoption in organizations. Emphasized the role of AI in enhancing the communications remit and raising the profile of the communications team. Noted the importance of building trust and credibility within organizations.🗣️ The Influential Communicator Model (04:00 - 05:56)
Deirdre Breakenridge introduced her "Influential Communicator" model, which builds on her previous "feel" framework. Stressed the significance of tuning in and aligning verbally and nonverbally to connect better with others.📈 Leadership and Influence in Communications (06:09 - 12:18)
Discussed the evolving landscape of leadership and influence within the communications profession. Highlighted the need for communicators to embrace AI and other trending areas to enhance their influence. Suggested that communicators often view AI as someone else's responsibility rather than taking the lead.🔍 Defining Influence (13:20 - 19:21)
Defined influence as the ability to move someone toward a desired action or participation. Identified key factors for building influence, including emotional intelligence, authenticity, and effective communication. Noted that confidence plays a crucial role in being perceived as influential.🧠 Empathy and Listening Skills (23:06 - 30:29)
Explored the different levels of empathy: cognitive, emotional, and compassionate. Emphasized the importance of deep listening as a key component of influence. Suggested that being fully present and aware enhances the ability to influence others.📊 Training for Influence (31:44 - 34:07)
Deirdre outlined her training program, focusing on becoming calm, clear, concise, and confident. Discussed the importance of aligning verbal and nonverbal communication to enhance influence.🤖 AI and Communication Skills (36:08 - 39:01)
Addressed the potential distractions of technology on communication skills. Encouraged professionals to develop human skills alongside technological advancements to maintain effectiveness in communication.🔬 Facial Recognition Tool for Emotion Analysis (47:10 - 50:26)
Deirdre introduced her AI facial recognition tool designed to analyze emotions during presentations. The tool captures micro-expressions and provides feedback on emotional responses, aiding in improving communication effectiveness.🌟 Future of Communication and Influence (57:06 - 59:38)
Highlighted the growing recognition of emotional intelligence and empathy as critical skills in leadership. Encouraged professionals to cultivate their influence skills to adapt to the evolving landscape of communication and technology.Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)
0:00 Influence and Leadership in the Communications Industry
13:27 The Role of Confidence and Emotional Intelligence in Influence
16:24 Human Skills and Trust Building
19:21 Emotional Intelligence as a Critical Skill
27:29 Forensic Listening Framework
29:53 The Art of Deep Listening and Influence
32:00 The Influential Communicator Program
34:07 The Impact of Technology on Communication Skills
36:12 The Role of Calmness in Effective Communication
47:10 Developing Analytics for AI Tools
49:56 AI Tools and Accuracy Challenges
53:40 Advancements in Facial Recognition Technology
57:48 AI's Role in Enhancing Communication Teams
(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
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Saknas det avsnitt?
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What do corporate communications leaders know about the businesses they serve? Chances are they know quite a lot. They know the stories, the narratives, and the CEO's various points of view; they know the strategies, the values, and the culture; they know the audiences and stakeholders and (should) how to calm them in times of crisis; sometimes they know where all the bodies are buried and which closets hold the most skeletons. Their job is, fundamentally, to know things. But do they understand The Business? Do they understand balance sheets? Do they speak the language of financial performance? Do they grasp everything in the Annual Report? Some do, but many still don't. How can they become the trusted advisors their companies and clients need, especially in these challenging and changing times?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle reconnects with David Albritton, the former Naval Public Affairs officer who built a stunning career in Communications before becoming an executive coach and strategic advisor. Currently Managing Director at CRA, David may be the only person to have made the leap from PR flack to global CEO (at least according to Dan), giving him a unique perspective on the need for communicators to develop business acumen and leadership skills to build thriving careers. Even in the age of AI.
As the world grapples with the implications of AI, misinformation, and shifting workplace dynamics, David shares his perspective on what it means to be a communicator today. He emphasizes the importance of building authentic relationships, understanding the business beyond the communications function, and the critical role of communicators as strategic advisors.
David also discusses his journey to becoming a board member at Embecta and the unique skills communicators can bring to the table in these roles. He highlights the necessity for communicators to be business partners first, leveraging their unique position to influence and drive organizational success.
He and Dan spend some time on the impact of AI on personal and professional development, revealing insights into how communicators can use these tools to enhance their understanding of business operations and improve their strategic influence.
Whether you're a seasoned communications professional or just starting your career, this episode offers valuable lessons on leadership, the evolving role of communications, and the skills needed to thrive in today's fast-paced environment. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from one of the leading voices in strategic communications.
Listen in and hear about...
The evolving role of communications professionals in the face of AI, misinformation, and declining institutional trust. Insights into the unique challenges and opportunities for communicators seeking board positions. The importance of building authentic relationships in hybrid and remote work environments. Strategies for communicators to become trusted business partners and influence organizational success. How generative AI can enhance personal career growth and understanding of business operations. The enduring qualities of effective leadership amidst technological and societal changes.Notable Quotes
"COVID changed the world in terms of what we accept in terms of how we engage with people. It all really comes down to relationships—who knows you, who do you know, do they trust you, do they have confidence in your abilities?" - David Albritton [10:34]
"If we only think about our value proposition through the lens of communications, we are failing the organization and ourselves. We need to become business partners who by the way, do communications." - David Albritton [16:26]
"If you aspire for greatness going forward, then how are you sharing your voice in that room when you have the opportunity? That's a critical skill for communicators that we don't develop." - David Albritton [21:05]
"I've been that person who comes into the room and is reluctant to offer an opinion or advice because they're talking about finance now, and I don't want to get over my skis." - Dan Nestle [22:01]
"The preparation you put in before you get to the meeting is going to make all the difference in the world because now you're educated, now you're confident, now you can raise your hand and ask a smart question." - David Albritton [28:29]
"Managing what people are saying about you when you're not in the room is hugely important for career growth." - David Albritton [41:54]
"I believe that corporate structure itself is obsolete and doesn't know it yet." - Dan Nestle [47:12]
Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter/XDavid Albritton
David Albritton | LinkedIn CRA | Admired Leadership ALEX, the Virtual Leadership CoachTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Background (00:00 - 06:46)
Daniel Nestle introduces David Albritton as a guest David's background: Naval Academy graduate, former naval officer, communications career David's current roles: Managing Director at CRA, independent board director at Embecta🏢 Corporate Structure and Communication (07:55 - 20:22)
Discussion on the changing nature of work and communication Importance of building authentic relationships in remote/hybrid work environments Communicators need to be business partners first, communicators second Importance of understanding company financials and business operations📊 Business Acumen for Communicators (21:29 - 32:15)
Need for communicators to understand business basics Recommendation to develop relationships with Investor Relations Importance of preparation before meetings Discussion on using AI tools for learning and preparation🤖 AI in Communication and Leadership (32:21 - 44:38)
Potential of AI tools in enhancing communication and leadership skills Importance of human interpretation and nuance in communication Discussion on the changing expectations for communicators in companies👥 Leadership Qualities and Relationships (44:38 - 54:27)
Core leadership qualities remain unchanged despite technological advancements Importance of adaptability, accountability, and relationship-building in leadership Discussion on the challenges of building relationships in remote work environments🔍 Leadership Behaviors and AI Coaching (55:35 - 01:06:27)
Introduction of Alex, an AI-driven leadership coaching tool Based on study of 15,000 admired leaders over 40 years Focuses on 100 leadership behaviors across various areas Designed for personalized, situation-specific coaching🔗 Closing Remarks and Resources (01:07:29 - 01:11:22)
Importance of developing leadership skills for communicators Information on how to access David's newsletter and the Alex tool Emphasis on sharing valuable content to foster relationshipsTimestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)
0:00 David Albritton's Journey from Military to Board Director
6:34 Evolving Role of Communications Professionals
9:11 Empowering Communicators to Find Their Voice
10:34 Impact of Remote Work on Professional Relationships
13:17 The Role of Communications in Building Organizational Trust
16:26 Transitioning from Communicators to Business Partners
24:05 The Evolving Role of Communicators in Fast-Paced Industries
25:22 The Secret Sauce to Career Advancement
28:04 The Importance of Preparation in Meetings
30:39 Business Acumen for Strategic Communicators
39:36 The Human Element in Communication
54:25 The Essence of Leadership
57:28 The Importance of Authentic Relationships in Leadership
1:00:37 Strategic Relationship Building for Career Growth
1:02:38 Alex: A Leadership Tool with Personality
1:05:11 AI-Driven Leadership Coaching Tool 'Alex'
(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
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Is it wrong to be future-focused in your career? At what price should you pursue innovation or push boundaries in your organization? Are you aware that there could be a growing urgency gap between you and your employer that may eventually be too wide to cross?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with award-winning communications and marketing strategist, CX-UX-DX innovator, social media OG, and quite possibly one of the originators of the field of integrated marketing and communications as we know it, David Armano. A self-described "weird unicorn" currently serving a to-be-determined term as CEO of TBD, David shares his evolved perspective on the present and future of work in today's ever-changing career landscape. Together, he and Dan tackle the challenges and opportunities that arise from balancing future-focused innovation with present-day realities. David shares his unique insights on career transitions, the impact of generative AI on entry-level roles, and the implications of an increasingly multi-generational workforce.
Digging into what it means to be CEO of TBD, they address the cultural shifts redefining the workplace and how professionals can and should leverage AI to stay relevant - not to mention enhance productivity and creativity. Their conversation highlights the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and the need for a historical perspective in understanding current trends and preparing for future challenges. From the rise of the contingent workforce to maintaining a healthy work-life balance, this episode offers valuable lessons for anyone looking to thrive in today's unpredictable and occasionally ageist environment.
Whether you're a seasoned executive or just starting your career, tune in to gain a deeper understanding of how to harness the power of technology and adapt to the changing demands of workers of all stripes. Don't miss this extremely relevant discussion that challenges conventional thinking and will inspire you to take control of your professional journey.
Listen in and hear about...
Balancing future-focused thinking with present-day priorities in marketing and communications. Navigating career transitions and the concept of being the "CEO of TBD." The impact of generational differences on workplace dynamics, especially with Gen Z's unique work attitudes. AI's role in transforming entry-level tasks and its implications for the workforce. The evolving nature of work, including the rise of fractional roles and the contingent workforce. The importance of historical perspective in adapting to technological and societal changes. Opportunities for expanding roles in communications through AI and data-driven insights.Notable Quotes
On Leadership Under Pressure:
"I've noticed the best leaders always do well under pressure. That's how you tell if you ever want to know the difference between, like, a really good leader and a not so good leader, watch them when things are not going well for them."
— David Armano [00:17:05 → 00:17:20]
On Navigating Career Changes:
"I think it's a healthy experience to go through, to go through a crisis of some kind in your life, and it sucks when it happens to you and you're suddenly without an employer or without a lifeline or without a safety net or whatever motivates you."
— Dan Nestle [00:17:54 → 00:18:10]
On Grief and Growth:
"Grief is both ugly and beautiful. It's ugly in the sense that it's painful... But there's a lot of gifts that do come with grieving."
— David Armano [00:20:59 → 00:22:20]
On Ageism in the Workplace:
"Age is actually sort of, you know, in most white collar cultures, it's something they kind of want to stay away from because of everything that we're talking about, because it's the one acceptable ism in the world of white collar work."
— David Armano [00:28:31 → 00:28:45]
On the Evolution of Work:
"The thing is, though, that there are so many, there's so much happening around us now that I think that the nature of work and the nature of this framework that almost all of corporate America at least functions within, which is that you age out, it's got to change, and it's changing in some places, but it really needs to change."
— Dan Nestle [00:31:38 → 00:31:54]
On AI and Entry-Level Work:
"AI does what likes, like someone coming into the workforce with no experience or very little experience. The tasks that you would give to those employees is what AI excels at."
— David Armano [00:35:20 → 00:35:30]
On the Future of Work:
"It's never been such a good time to be a CEO of TBD."
— David Armano [00:42:28 → 00:42:31]
On the Role of AI:
"One thing that AI is great at and should get better at is that is that first draft, that first draft of a business plan, that first draft of any written communication, that first draft of a data, to use your example, like first draft, the data analysis, it's really good at that."
— David Armano [01:00:14 → 01:00:30]
Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter/XDavid Armano
David Armano's Website David Armano | LinkedIn David By Design | David Armano on SubstackTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Career Reflection (00:00 - 11:37)
Daniel Nestle introduces the podcast and the guest, David Armano Discussion on the challenge of balancing future-thinking with present needs in communications David's background in integrated communications and marketing Reflection on David's first layoff experience💼 Career Transitions and Workforce Trends (12:02 - 23:13)
David's experience as 'CEO of TBD' after leaving a startup Discussion on the changing nature of work for Gen X professionals Exploration of hybrid work models and their impact on different generations Emphasis on the need for adaptability in the face of employment uncertainty🔄 AI and the Future of Work (24:45 - 34:38)
Analysis of AI's impact on entry-level work and its role as a virtual intern Discussion on the changing dynamics of hiring and team structures due to AI Exploration of how AI can enable professionals to expand their roles and skills👥 Generational Dynamics in the Workplace (35:58 - 45:56)
Examination of different generational attitudes towards work, especially Gen Z Discussion on the challenges of managing a multi-generational workforce Analysis of how hybrid work models affect different age groups differently🚀 Evolving Roles in Communications and Marketing (46:05 - 58:01)
Exploration of how AI is changing traditional roles in communications and marketing Discussion on the need for professionals to become 'spectacular' at their craft Analysis of how AI can help professionals expand their skillsets and roles🔍 Historical Perspective and Future Outlook (59:15 - 01:06:56)
Emphasis on the importance of learning from historical technological revolutions Discussion on balancing the potential benefits and societal impacts of new technologies Encouragement to view current changes through the lens of past transformations🧠 Final Thoughts and Career Advice (01:07:54 - 01:12:58)
Emphasis on being an observer and synthesizing information for decision-making Discussion on the importance of balancing detailed work with big-picture thinking Encouragement to be curious and inquisitive in navigating career changesTimestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)
0:00 Intro
5:28 David Armano's Career Journey and the Concept of TBD
7:32 Navigating Career Uncertainty as Gen X
12:01 The Role of Energy in Workshop Facilitation
15:05 Embracing Honesty During Layoffs
23:12 The Grief Cycle in Communications
26:13 Aging Out in the Corporate World
28:02 Ageism in White Collar Work
34:50 AI's Impact on Entry-Level Jobs
45:53 The Evolution of Employment Benefits
55:36 Rethinking Work in the Age of AI
57:49 The Rise of AI in Creative Industries
1:04:25 The Importance of Historical Perspective
1:06:53 Three Lenses of Time
(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
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Let's face it, dealing with the future isn't something we can kick down the road. And at the intersection of people, technology, and brand, change is coming faster than ever before. We could blame Generative AI. Or we can embrace it and use it as an accelerant for our teams, employers, customers, and brands...
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle welcomes award-winning digital innovator, public speaker, and agency executive Rob Davis, the Chief Digital Innovation Officer at MSL, for an engaging conversation on the future of communications and marketing. Rob, a digital pioneer with a career spanning broadcast TV and leading agencies, shares his journey of invention and innovation (and his good fortune at attaining a role that Dan not-so-secretly covets).
From his early days at MTV, where he developed the world's first interactive game show, to his groundbreaking work at Ogilvy and now MSL Global, Rob has consistently been at the forefront of digital innovation. His accolades, including the Provoke Media Innovator 25 and two consecutive appearances in the PRWeek Dashboard 25, merely scratch the surface of his influence and expertise.
He and Dan explore how Generative AI is reshaping how we approach communications and marketing and what that means for brands. They cover the importance of understanding and utilizing AI prompts, the evolving nature of authority in content, and the critical need for brands to adapt to the rapid advancements in technology.
They address how AI impacts brand communication—shifting the dynamics between brands, media, and consumers. Rob stresses the need for brands to curate content that directly engages AI models to enhance discoverability and relevance.
Moving on to the future of work, Rob notes that AI is reshaping job paths in communications, offering opportunities to integrate new talent and innovative roles. He encourages professionals to embrace AI to remain competitive in the workforce.
Whether you're a communications novice or a seasoned professional, this episode offers lessons on embracing change, leveraging technology for enhanced communication strategies, and staying ahead in a fast-paced digital world. There's no doubt that AI will significantly impact the future of communications and marketing - listen in to hear what you can do about it for your future and the brands you represent.
Listen in and hear about...
How generative AI is revolutionizing communications and marketing. Mastering AI prompts to boost content creation and engagement. AI search algorithms reshaping content discoverability and relevance. Workforce dynamics shifting with AI, creating new job opportunities. Brands adapting content strategies to thrive in an AI-driven world. Opportunities and challenges of AI and emerging technologies in business. Notable QuotesOn the Evolution of Technology and Career:
- "I came out of college at a time in the early nineties when everything was starting to change and everything I was passionate about, music, photography, video, storytelling, all individual passions, all of a sudden had a place to go, and I've just kind of let the industry take me along."
— Rob Davis [00:03:42 → 00:04:02]
On the Thrill of Innovation:
- "The thrill of that. It's funny, it wasn't an ego building thrill. It was a hunger building thrill. I said, I got to find more of this. Where does this come from? How do I tap into this bucket over and over again? And that's kind of what's driven me all along."
— Rob Davis [00:06:24 → 00:06:42]
On the Acceleration of Technology:
- "I look at the years between advances from that era and it's like those advances are happening in months, if not weeks."
— Rob Davis [00:09:31 → 00:09:47]
On the Power of AI and Prompting:
- "You can go to chat GPT the first time and you're probably going to treat it like this is a fortune telling arcade game. Zoltan. Zoltar, you're asking a question and you're going to get an answer, and as you said, you say, oh, that's cool, and you're going to walk away without realizing that you can start a chain of prompts that's going to develop something much deeper than that."
— Rob Davis [00:16:38 → 00:16:58]
On the Creativity in AI:
- "You are creating every prompt you write, no matter how basic or complex it is, are creating something. And I think that that's part of the adrenaline rush for me."
— Rob Davis [00:21:01 → 00:21:14]
On the Future of Content Creation:
- "We don't have to wait. We can do more than we can possibly imagine right now, and it's only going to get better, but we don't have to wait for the next piece. We can revolutionize almost everything that we're doing right now."
— Rob Davis [00:22:14 → 00:22:31]
On the Changing Nature of Authority in Content:
- "The judge of authority is the consumer. So if the content, to your point, is not appealing to the consumer, it's not in their vernacular, it's not something that they feel ready to consume, they're not going to interact with it, and it is not going to get that algorithmic importer of authoritative."
— Rob Davis [00:41:08 → 00:41:34]
On the Power Shift in Content Creation:
- "Because the consumer is now, or the customer…is getting more and more answers from AI, from generative AI. Well, now that puts a little bit more power in the hands of the brands, doesn't it?"
— Dan Nestle [00:45:49 → 00:46:09]
On the Future of Communication:
- "The roles that are going to be created, the tasks that are going to be created are very different. It's going to create a whole bundle of new tasks. Those new tasks will have to be apportioned to somebody which become new jobs also."
— Dan Nestle [00:54:27 → 00:54:59]
Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter/XRob Davis
Rob Davis's Website Rob Davis | LinkedInTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Background (00:00 - 09:12) Dan Nestle introduces himself as the host of the Trending Communicator podcast Guest Rob Davis is introduced as Chief Digital Innovation Officer at MSL Global Rob's career spans from broadcast TV to leading agencies Rob's accomplishments include Provoke Media Innovator 25 and PR Week Dashboard 25 Rob shares his early career experiences, including work at MTV and developing the first interactive TV game show 🚀 Digital Innovation and AI (09:18 - 14:40) Rob discusses the rapid acceleration of technology advancements Ethan Mollick's video on LinkedIn showcasing AI recreating the game Doom Discussion on the need for proper AI prompting and understanding LLMs Critique of PR professionals' lack of understanding in AI prompting 💡 AI in Communications and Marketing (16:17 - 28:44) Importance of understanding how to use AI tools effectively Discussion on the power of prompts and the creative thinking involved Custom GPTs and their potential in various functions The changing nature of authority in content creation due to AI 🎯 Brand Communication and AI (30:24 - 42:11) Impact of AI on brand discoverability and content relevance Importance of creating content that influences AI models Shift in power dynamics between brands, media, and consumers Need for brands to become their own publishers and create the right kind of content 👥 Career Paths and AI (43:15 - 56:10) Discussion on how AI is changing career paths in communications and marketing Opportunity to reshape the workforce and bring in new talent Importance of embracing AI to remain valuable in the job market Potential for new roles and tasks created by AI and emerging technologies 🔮 Future Outlook and Closing Remarks (57:30 - 01:01:18) Mention of other emerging technologies like NFTs, metaverse, and near-field communication Rob's optimism about the future of connecting with audiences Importance of capitalizing on audience behaviors and trends Rob's contact information and social media presenceTimestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)
0:00 Intro
2:07 Rob Davis' Journey in Digital Innovation
3:42 The Evolution of Media and Technology
5:08 Developing the World's First Home Play Game Show
6:24 Pioneering Digital Content at Ogilvy
9:58 AI's Rapid Evolution and Its Impact
16:38 The Power of the Prompt
18:24 Challenges in AI Adoption in PR and Communications
22:31 The Evolution of Custom GPTs
30:41 The Evolution of Media Relations
42:09 AI's Impact on Discoverability and Content Creation
43:15 The Shift in Power Dynamics in Marketing
49:35 AI's Impact on the Workforce
52:22 Abundance Mentality in Business
53:57 Brands' Procrastination on AI Integration
57:02 Generative AI and Future Skills
(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
-
All of us know we're in an age of disruption. If you want to thrive and grow as a communicator or marketer, it's not AI you have to worry about. What should keep you up at night is the prospect of succumbing to the Dull. AI can do dull better than you can. You have to flee the dull and be bold. You have to be audacious.
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle finally, after countless name drops, references, and bold claims to be friends with a particular marketing legend, puts his money where his mouth is and welcomes to the show his mentor, confidant, friend, and arguably his man crush, the one and only Mark Schaefer.
After Dan perpetrates some gushing, he and Mark go straight into the chaotic "Now" and the need for a clear vision of the future. They talk about the impact of AI on communications and marketing, and Mark offers his sobering perspective: yes, AI can be terrifying for anyone creating content because it's "good enough" to generate boring, compliant corporate messaging. He says that AI will "unleash a pandemic of dull" - and if we want to succeed in the future, we'll need to be bold, crazy, and audacious. He goes on to say that the result could be spectacular work by those of us who can rise above the dull.
They also get into the significance of personal branding, both internally within companies and externally. Mark reinforces the idea that being Known and trusted, especially in an era where deepfakes and misinformation are rampant, is critical to future success.
Throughout the episode, Dan and Mark explore the challenges and opportunities presented by technological advancements, urging communicators to embrace bold, audacious strategies to stay relevant. The conversation concludes with remarks about Mark's upcoming book, tentatively titled "Audacious: A Rebel's Guide to Disruptive Marketing," set to release in January.
Listen in and hear about...
Mark's new book! How marketing and communications are merging in today's chaotic landscape. AI's transformative role in marketing and communication strategies. The importance of authenticity and grit in content creation. AI's impact on entry-level jobs and the future of onboarding new talent. Why building a personal brand within organizations is crucial for career growth. Challenges that large companies face in adapting to rapid cultural and technological changes. The necessity of community and collaboration to stay updated with fast-paced industry trends. Notable QuotesOn the Role of Marketing in Companies:
- "I think in this day and age, almost everybody's in marketing, everybody in your company that influences your conversation with your customer, your reputation with your customer." — Mark Schaefer [00:04:37 → 00:04:47]
On the Intersection of Marketing and Communications:
- " We're talking about reaching out to audiences and creating that market, creating a market either for your goods or for your ideas or for your message and all the above." — Dan Nestle [00:05:53 → 00:06:09]
On the Impact of AI on Jobs:
- "I think it will eliminate a lot of lower level jobs and it'll eliminate, you know, some entry level jobs." — Mark Schaefer [00:11:19 → 00:11:27]
On the Future of Content Creation:
- "In the next twelve months, you'll be able to make a full length motion picture on your laptop computer, including the script and the, you know, the dialogue and the score and the art and everything you would want." — Mark Schaefer [00:14:55 → 00:15:11]
On Authenticity in Marketing:
- "The key to creating a video that connects on an emotional level is to leave mistakes in. Maybe some of the video is a little blurry, maybe a little of the audio is a little scratchy, but it makes you feel like you're right there." — Mark Schaefer [00:17:28 → 00:17:40]
On the Pandemic of Dull:
- "AI is going to be very capable. That's also going to unleash this pandemic of dull. And every communicator out there is going to be fighting against this pandemic of dull." — Mark Schaefer [00:26:14 → 00:26:27]
On the Future of Corporate Content:
- "If you're writing content that's easily approved by legal, you're going to be gone. You've got to start reaching into more communications that can't be ignored, that cannot be commoditized." — Mark Schaefer [00:26:14 → 00:26:27]
On the Role of Personal Branding:
- "Anybody, any employee, any person anywhere should be building their own personal brand. And I think people are confused. They think, oh, that means I want to be solo and be on my own. Not necessarily, but if somebody is in a company and doesn't have the influence, they don't have a personal brand." — Dan Nestle [00:47:37 → 00:47:55]
On the Role of Community in Staying Relevant:
- "I cannot be relevant without a community behind me in our rise community. We have people from all around the world helping each other, nurturing each other, talking about, this works. This doesn't, I tried this, use this." — Mark Schaefer [01:04:41 → 01:05:00]
On the Importance of Grit and Authenticity:
- "Grit, a little crazy and a lot of audacity." — Mark Schaefer [01:06:51 → 01:06:54]
On the Importance of Community:
- "I can with 1000% certainty say that my understanding of AI and my joy of it is absolutely due to my involvement with the rise community and just that whole process of helping to build that community and being part of it." — Dan Nestle [01:05:00 → 01:05:15]
Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter/XMark Schaefer
Mark Schaefer's Website Mark Schaefer's {grow} Blog The Marketing Companion Podcast (on Apple Podcasts) Mark Schaefer's Books on Amazon Mark Schaefer | LinkedInTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Personal Brand (00:00 - 15:00)
Daniel Nestle introduces Mark Schaefer as a marketing expert and communicator Mark emphasizes the importance of personal brand in the age of AI Discussion on the blurring lines between marketing and communications Mark highlights the need for authenticity and 'grit' in content creation🤖 AI and Content Creation (15:00 - 30:00)
Exploration of AI's impact on lower-level jobs in marketing and communications Mark discusses the need for human creativity and 'crazy' ideas to stand out Emphasis on the importance of authenticity in a world of AI-generated content Discussion on the future of corporate communication in the age of AI🏢 Corporate Culture and Innovation (30:00 - 45:00)
Mark talks about the challenges of innovation in large corporations Discussion on the importance of internal personal branding Emphasis on the need for quick experimentation and 'pilots' in companies Mark introduces his upcoming book 'Audacious' on disruptive marketing🌐 Future of Marketing and Communications (45:00 - 60:00)
Discussion on the importance of community in staying relevant Mark emphasizes the need for human touch in marketing strategies Talk about the rise of AI tools and their impact on content verification Mark's prediction: 'The most human company wins'🎬 Wrap-up and Resources (60:00 - 01:07:06)
Daniel provides information on Mark's blog and podcast Discussion on the RISE community and its benefits Mark's final thoughts on the importance of humanity in business(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
-
Is the Communications function, as many in our profession claim, an organization's nerve center? Where messages and stories are the electric impulses that cause synapses to fire, muscles to move, and hearts to beat? Or is this understating the case? Are we missing the bigger picture?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle welcomes back thought leader, educator, and dear friend Ethan McCarty, the CEO of Integral. Known for his innovative approach to employee experience and communications technology, Ethan has been a guiding force in shaping how organizations communicate internally and externally. while devoting nearly as much time to giving back to the profession as he has spent building his successful agency.
Dan and Ethan have a wide-ranging conversation that touches on the essence of effective communication within organizations, and the critical impact of communications on corporate health. They explore Ethan's approach to viewing employees as public: By treating employees with the same strategic importance as external audiences, companies can foster a more engaged and productive workforce.
The discussion also delves into the impact of AI and CommsTech on the future of corporate communications. Ethan shares his thoughts on how technology can enhance communication strategies, streamline operations, and create a more dynamic corporate environment. He emphasizes the importance of ethical frameworks and the need for organizations to invest in listening and understanding their employees' needs and perspectives.
Ethan's insights are not just theoretical; they are grounded in practical experience and real-world applications. He discusses the challenges and opportunities that come with leading a communications agency and offers valuable advice for both seasoned professionals and those new to the field. From the importance of continuous learning and adaptation to the role of strategic intelligence in communications, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways.
Tune in to learn how you can elevate your communication efforts, embrace technological advancements, and create a more engaged and effective workforce.
Listen in and hear about...
The influence of key mentors and colleagues on professional growth. The importance of employee experience in modern communications. How AI and technology are reshaping content creation and workflows. The role of internal communications in shaping organizational culture. The impact of political and social issues on workplace dynamics. Strategies for integrating employee feedback into business decisions. The evolving expectations of employees in a personalized work environment. Notable Quotes "Thinking of employees as a public is... of great strategic value." — Ethan McCarty [00:07:07 → 00:07:10]"If you can optimize that set of relations at work for strategic value and for positive experiences for the humans involved, that feels like a lot of good outcomes." — Ethan McCarty [00:07:39 → 00:07:50]
"Employees have much more agency and voice and ability to affect reputation and the ability to affect customer outcomes." — Ethan McCarty [00:10:43 → 00:10:50]
"The way you communicate constitutes the entity." — Ethan McCarty [00:15:06 → 00:15:10]
"Comms is like the nerve center of a company, and I think it is. But now it sounds, from what you're saying, it's more like the circulatory system." — Dan Nestle [00:29:31 → 00:29:39]
"The sophistication of what's available is light years ahead of where we were five years ago." — Ethan McCarty [00:31:18 → 00:31:24]
"Make your friends before you need your friends, my friends." — Ethan McCarty [01:02:28 → 01:02:32]
"If you do not respect my rights and I'm a high performing employee in an environment where there is 4% unemployment, what do you think I'm gonna do? I'll probably get a raise." — Ethan McCarty [01:05:00 → 01:05:10]
Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter/XEthan McCarty
Integral - Employee Experience Agency Ethan McCarty | LinkedIn Read Ethan in Forbes: When Communications Teams Become The OrganizationTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Background (00:00 - 06:32)
Daniel Nestle introduces Ethan McCarty as a leading voice in communications Ethan is CEO of Integral, an employee experience agency Discussion on the influence of mentors and colleagues in professional development🏢 Integral and Employee Experience (06:32 - 16:51)
Ethan explains Integral's focus on employees as a public Emphasis on managing relationships with employees intentionally Discussion on the importance of culture in organizational change Exploration of Conway's law and constitutive theory of communications🔄 Organizational Communication Design (16:54 - 29:31)
Analysis of how communication configuration affects company identity and products Importance of redesigning internal communications teams for better employee experience Discussion on the need for more robust sensing and listening in organizations💡 Intelligence and Strategy in Communications (29:32 - 36:39)
Importance of communications teams as sources of business intelligence Need for upskilling and technology adoption in communication roles Challenges in transforming communication teams into business intelligence units👥 Value of Communication Professionals (37:34 - 45:06)
Discussion on the evolving role of communication professionals Importance of being a strategic advisor and intelligence gatherer Value of relationship-building and understanding in communication roles🚀 Future of Communications and Junior Staff (45:27 - 58:54)
Debate on the future need for junior staff in communications Emphasis on self-enabled, experimental, and entrepreneurial employees Discussion on the changing skill sets required in the communications industry🗳️ Political Issues in the Workplace (58:54 - 01:07:12)
Upcoming global elections and their impact on workplace communications Challenges of managing political discussions in the workplace Importance of creating guidelines for discussing social issues at work(Notes co-created by Humans and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
-
Let's face it: it's getting worse out there.
Trust in institutions, brands, and even people seems to be spiraling ever downward. What can we, as communicators, do to break this cycle, protect our brands, and build a culture of trust?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle once again travels into the dark world of misinformation and disinformation, this time with Lisa Kaplan, founder and CEO of Alethea, to uncover the strategies and technologies that can help you identify and mitigate misinformation and disinformation.
Lisa, a recognized leader in PR and digital risk mitigation, shares her journey from Senate campaign staffer to founder of a company that recently secured $20 million in Series B funding. Her extensive experience in policy, communications, and national security provides a unique perspective on the challenges and solutions in combating online threats.
Dan and Lisa explore the critical role of early detection in managing online risks and the importance of proactive measures to safeguard brands and organizations. They discuss how Alethea's technology platform identifies emerging narratives, assesses their potential impact, and offers actionable insights to mitigate risks before they escalate. Lisa emphasizes the need for ethical practices in information dissemination and the role of AI in enhancing strategic communication efforts.
The conversation also touches on the broader implications of misinformation, including its impact on corporate culture and employee engagement. Lisa shares practical advice on how organizations can leverage their internal communications to build a resilient culture of trust, even in the face of digital threats. They also discuss the importance of staying true to core values and maintaining consistent messaging to preserve credibility and trust.
This episode is a must-listen for communicators, marketers, and anyone interested in the intersection of technology, security, and public relations. Gain valuable insights from Lisa Kaplan on effectively combating digital threats and fostering a culture of trust within your organization. Join us for a thought-provoking discussion that can help you be a champion of truth and trust for your organization.
Listen in and hear about... The escalating trust crisis in media and its impact on public relations and brand defense strategies Roles of PR professionals in combating misinformation and disinformation to protect brands and clients The founding and mission of Alethea, a company specializing in online risk mitigation and its approach to managing digital threats How recent political and social events influence corporate brand management and the necessity for proactive digital defense strategies Why the evolution of communication strategies from traditional methods to digital platforms requires rapid and informed responses to misinformation The importance of early detection in managing online risks and the benefits of technology in identifying potential threats before they escalate Effective strategies for leveraging employee communications and internal culture to reinforce brand integrity and manage crisis communication Notable QuotesOn the Reality of Digital Threats:
"The reality is, and what I tell everybody is like, listen, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. And so, welcome to our digital environment."
— Lisa Kaplan [00:04:06 → 00:04:16]
On the Importance of Early Detection:
"Our role is to be able to identify these risks and threats early and be able to give you those insights and great recommendations for what you can actually do about it, so that you're finding stuff out when it's a level one, not a level ten."
Lisa Kaplan [00:05:07 → 00:05:22]
On the Evolution of Influence Operations:
"What started as a government tactic is now anybody can do it situation. So we do see more than just state actors. We see these criminal groups, we see these lone individual operators."
Lisa Kaplan [00:15:59 → 00:16:13]
On the Role of Fact-Checking:
"A fact check alone doesn't work. Oftentimes you have to... It worked in that specific instance because it was a narrative caught early that was new, and because they were able to leverage fact checkers who had a very high following to get that information out early, that the narrative was false altogether."
Lisa Kaplan [00:17:13 → 00:17:34]
On the Challenge of Disinformation:
"Disinformation targets our fear, our anxieties, our uncertainties... And so, because I was scared, because there was an information vacuum, which is the consistent area where disinformation really thrives... I fell for it."
— Lisa Kaplan [00:23:33 → 00:23:54]
On the Role of Employees in Communication:
"You want your employees being the one saying, yes, this is a great place to work. You don't want to be the one coming out saying, I promise this is great. Like, people aren't going to trust management on that."
— Lisa Kaplan [00:28:01 → 00:28:15]
On the Importance of Consistency:
"My advice is always, don't flip flop. Know where you stand. If it's core to your business to say something, say something."
— Lisa Kaplan [00:30:35 → 00:30:45]
On the Role of Technology in Communication:
"Embrace technology and know how it works... It's automating the grunt work of our jobs. It's automating. It's being able to rapidly deploy counter messaging."
— Lisa Kaplan [00:46:41 → 00:46:55]
On the Ethical Use of AI:
"It is perfectly appropriate to use AI or an LLM to potentially play around with drafting a response. Make it the first draft. It's way faster. That's totally fine. What you also have to know, though, is that you are assuming the responsibility of whatever goes out the door."
— Lisa Kaplan [00:55:29 → 00:55:49]
On Building Trust:
"The best thing you can do is invest in trust. It's a lot easier to protect a strong amount of trust than to try to build trust when no one trusts you."
— Lisa Kaplan [00:52:14 → 00:52:24]
On the Power of Conversation:
"Conversation is the communicator's superpower."
— Dan Nestle [00:48:33 → 00:48:56]
On the Importance of LinkedIn:
- "LinkedIn is a major center for especially B2B, but certainly for person-to-person contact. And in my humble opinion, it is the most solid of all business platforms and the most real, like the most authentic for business people."
— Dan Nestle [00:51:02 → 00:51:32]
Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter/XLisa Kaplan
Alethea - Online Risk Mitigation Technology Lisa Kaplan | LinkedIn Lisa Kaplan | Twitter/XTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Trust Crisis (00:00 - 11:25)
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and discusses the ongoing trust crisis Lisa Kaplan, founder and CEO of Alethea, is introduced as the guest Alethea is an online risk mitigation technology company Lisa's background includes working with US legislators, think tanks, and National Laboratories Alethea detects and mitigates instances of online risks for organizations🔍 Online Risk Detection and Mitigation (11:53 - 18:52)
Alethea's platform uses boolean logic and machine learning models The platform identifies coordinated behavior rather than focusing on content Early detection of threats is crucial for effective risk management Fact-checking alone is not sufficient in combating misinformation Peer-to-peer communication is more effective in deradicalization efforts🌐 Disinformation and Corporate Strategy (20:05 - 27:08)
Companies need to consider their stance on emotionally charged issues Internal communication is crucial, but every internal communication is potentially external Companies should stay true to their core values and messaging Employees can be valuable assets in combating misinformation Companies should invest in culture to foster positive employee communication📊 Predictive Analysis and Communication Skills (28:23 - 42:59)
Early detection of potential risks is crucial for effective crisis management Communicators need to understand technology and embrace new tools Communication is now interactive and conversation-based Every interaction is an opportunity for person-to-person communication Deepfakes and other technological risks are emerging challenges💬 Building Trust and Leveraging Social Media (43:32 - 52:09)
Conversation is a key skill for communicators LinkedIn is a valuable platform for business communication Executives should actively engage in social media conversations Building trust is easier than trying to regain it during a crisis Authentic communication from executives is more effective than outsourced content🤖 AI in Communication and Ethical Considerations (52:14 - 58:39)
AI can be used ethically to draft responses and automate workflows Human expertise is crucial in the AI loop AI should not be used to create bot networks or engage in unethical practices Communicators should use AI as a tool to enhance their work, not replace human judgment(Notes co-created by Humans and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
-
For years, we've been talking about upgrading the communications function - or at least modernizing it, bringing comms into parity with their Marketing colleagues. Embracing technology is the most visible part of this journey. But what good is technology - project management tools, social media management tools, intelligence and analytics software, email automation, and now Generative AI - without the people to drive it? You can't conquer the frontier of CommsTech without capable pioneers. In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle reconnects with award-winning strategic communications leader and all-around CommsTech pioneer Megan DiSciullo, Senior Managing Director of US and Mexico Communications for PwC. Megan shares her extensive experience in communications, her journey from Edelman to PwC, and her insights on ethically integrating technology, particularly Generative AI, into corporate communications.
Join us as Megan shares her journey from the ground up in the world of strategic communications as she and Dan explore the transformative role of generative AI and CommsTech in today's corporate landscape. From her early days at Edelman to her ever-expanding remit at PwC, Megan has consistently been at the forefront of innovation, advocating for the ethical use of AI while enhancing strategic communications across the board.
This episode delves deep into how AI is reshaping the way we think about internal and external communications, the importance of ethical frameworks, and the potential of AI to streamline operations and create a more dynamic corporate environment. Megan's insights provide invaluable lessons on embracing change, leveraging technology for enhanced communication strategies, following an ethics-first approach, and AI's critical role in driving corporate narratives forward.
Whether you're a communications novice or a seasoned professional, this episode offers a treasure of knowledge and inspiration, showcasing how embracing technological advancements can significantly elevate your strategic communication efforts. Don't miss out on this insightful exploration of AI's impact on the future of corporate communications and how you can be part of this evolution in the industry.
Listen in and hear about... The evolving role of communicators in shaping internal culture and driving organizational change Strategies for integrating AI into corporate communications and the importance of secure, enterprise-specific tools How ethical considerations and policy development are important in AI deployment to maintain trust and data security AI's impact on productivity and efficiency, freeing up communicators to focus on higher-level strategic activities The necessity for ongoing learning and adaptation within the communications field to leverage new technologies like AI The collaborative approach required to implement AI across various organizational functions effectively The potential of AI to democratize learning and innovation within organizations, fostering an environment of continuous improvement and engagement Notable Quotes On the Value of Kindness in Business:"One of my mentors told me early on, Megan, always be direct, so people know where you stand and there's no misinterpretation. But always be kind, because you never know when you will need people or just, this is a business of teaming. And so, you know, people want to work with people who are kind."
— Megan DiSciullo [00:08:43 → 00:09:05]
On the Role of Data in Communications:
"Data is the ultimate neutralizer. Whether the data is coming from the comms team, the marketing team, or from our client insights team. The data is telling us key insights about our audience that we need to know."
— Megan DiSciullo [00:27:19 → 00:27:35]
On the Importance of Change Management:
"It makes for sometimes an uphill battle. And that's where change management culture change really needs to happen. And there's no amount of money, I think, that you can put down on the value of pilots and tests and stuff to kind of use that data and sort of show examples and gain permission and gain buy in over time."
— Dan Nestle [00:31:15 → 00:31:35]
On the Importance of Change Management:
"If you put out, even if it's a tech product that's in the 1.0 version and it's not a good experience, you've lost people. So it doesn't matter how many times you communicate about it if the experience isn't great, especially in today's world where people have little appetite and little patience."
— Megan DiSciullo [00:35:22 → 00:35:42]
On the Role of AI in Enhancing Productivity:
"Once you understand, okay, all prompting, and this is what it is, and this is what it means. That's that kind of first initial wall to get through with the user with the AI partner. And once they get through that wall, then it's about, oh, my goodness, I'm going to save all this time."
— Dan Nestle [00:45:39 → 00:46:00]
On the Future of AI in Communications:
"I see Gen AI, at least in its current function and form, to be a productivity and efficiency tool. There is still a need for really great counsel, really great crisis management skills, really great relationship building skills, really great dot connecting skills."
— Megan DiSciullo [00:48:39 → 00:48:55]
On the Future of Communications:
"AI is an enabler with that, of course, because a lot of the fundamental tasks that people associate with typical traditional comms can be essentially handed over to, at least at the first level, to these brilliant, co creative, co intelligent platforms, and then brought back to the human to make sure that it's all good to go, but it saves a lot of time, much more productive."
— Dan Nestle [01:02:13 → 01:02:35]
On the Evolution of the Communications Profession:
"I started faxing press releases. I am so far from a fax machine and loving it. But I'm now learning the next skill, and in ten years, I'm going to learn something that we haven't even started to think about. And that is the beauty of this profession."
— Megan DiSciullo [01:04:47 → 01:05:00]
Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterMegan DiSciullo
Megan DiSciullo | LinkedInTimestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Flowsend.ai)
00:00:01: Introduction and Welcome
00:01:41: Megan DiSciullo Joins the Conversation
00:02:19: Early Career and First Impressions
00:03:21: Transition from Edelman to PwC
00:04:22: Predictive Analytics Project
00:05:25: First Meeting with Megan
00:06:08: Megan's Reaction to Predictive Analytics
00:08:43: Megan's Philosophy on Kindness and Teaming
00:10:16: Importance of Kindness in Business
00:11:06: Megan's Career Journey
00:12:07: Early Interest in Purpose and Ethics
00:13:09: Work with Business Roundtable Post-Katrina
00:14:10: Transition to PwC and Building Internal Change
00:15:12: Merging Internal and External Communications
00:16:14: Introduction to Comtech
00:17:15: Commtech vs. Commstech
00:19:41: Data and Analytics in Communications
00:21:13: Building the Tech Stack
00:22:15: Embedding Technology into Workflows
00:23:17: Audience-Centric Approach
00:24:05: Partnership Between Marketing and Communications
00:27:19: Navigating Conflicts Between Teams
00:30:13: Change Management and Culture Change
00:32:16: Integrating Marketing and Communications
00:33:22: Expanding Teams and Data Science
00:35:26: Importance of Pilots and Feedback
00:37:33: AI Implementation and Upskilling
00:39:21: Team Effort in AI Training
00:40:31: Hands-On Training and Gamification
00:42:02: Democratization of Learning
00:43:03: Bespoke Tools for Marketing and Comms
00:45:07: Mass Personalization with GenAI
00:47:12: Empowering Teams with AI
00:48:39: Encouraging Innovation and Experimentation
00:50:49: Framing AI as a Co-Intelligence
00:54:46: Ethical Implications of AI
00:57:02: Building Trust in AI
00:59:15: Transparency and Validation in AI
01:00:43: Future Focus for Communicators
01:02:13: Role of Communicators in Culture Building
01:03:53: Embracing Curiosity and Learning
01:04:48: Final Thoughts and Farewell
(Notes co-created by Humans and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
-
When your brand, company, country, or even you are the target of social media attacks, what if you can't even identify the source of the problem? What if the attackers aren't real people? What if the entire attack is a complete lie, disinformation spread by bad actors with thousands, or millions, of fake accounts at their disposal? How do you uncover the good, the bad, and the fake online? In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle is joined by seasoned PR and marketing expert Rafi Mendelsohn, VP of Marketing at Cyabra, a premier media monitoring platform specializing in the detection, identification, and mitigation of malicious actors, bots, bot networks, and generative AI content. Together, they unravel the complexities of the trust crisis exacerbated by advanced technologies like AI and bot networks.
The conversation starts with a deep dive into the pervasive trust issues affecting our institutions and the role of technology in amplifying misinformation and disinformation. With his extensive background in agency and in-house roles across various markets, Rafi brings a unique perspective on how malicious actors use digital platforms to manipulate public discourse.
Dan and Rafi explore the implications of these practices for communicators and marketers. They discuss the challenges of distinguishing between genuine and artificial interactions online and the impact of these interactions on corporate reputation and brand trust.
Rafi shares insights into the mechanics of bot networks and how they are not just limited to political arenas but are pervasive across all sectors, influencing everything from consumer behavior to stock prices. He explains the sophisticated methods these networks use to appear legitimate and the difficulties this presents in identifying and combating them.
Their conversation also covers practical strategies for organizations to protect themselves, emphasizing the importance of advanced media monitoring and the need for a proactive rather than reactive approach to digital threats. Rafi advocates for a blend of technology and traditional communication strategies to effectively manage and mitigate the risks associated with digital misinformation, empowering listeners with actionable advice.
Listeners will gain a comprehensive understanding of the landscape of digital misinformation, the tools available to tackle it, and how to strategically position their communications in an increasingly complex digital world. Whether you're a communications professional, a marketer, or simply interested in the impact of technology on public discourse, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice. Listen in and hear about... The pervasive trust crisis in modern institutions and the role of misinformation and disinformation. The impact of AI and technology on the spread of false information through bots and fake accounts. Strategies for communicators and marketers to identify and combat misinformation in their fields. The challenges and responsibilities of PR and marketing professionals in managing brand reputation amidst misinformation. The evolution of malicious actors using sophisticated AI tools to create and spread disinformation. Practical steps and tools for organizations to detect and mitigate the effects of disinformation on their brands. Future trends in communication strategies to handle emerging technologies and misinformation threats effectively. Notable Quotes On the Trust Crisis:
"We're in the thick of an unprecedented trust crisis. Trust in our institutions, especially government, education, and media, is in freefall. Misinformation and disinformation are everywhere, and it's only getting worse."
— Dan Nestle [00:01:00 → 00:01:20]
On the Role of AI in Social Media:
"AI has enabled bad actors to disseminate bad information at scale through deepfakes, AI-enabled content farms, and bots. This is the world we're contending with."
— Dan Nestle [00:01:20 → 00:01:30]
On the Role of Communicators:
"As communicators and marketers, we're often on the front lines of this information-driven trust crisis. We have to tell stories, protect our clients and companies, and ensure that the information we share is trustworthy."
— Dan Nestle [00:04:00 → 00:04:20]
On the Challenges of Modern Communication:
"We don't know who we're talking to, and we don't know whether we're telling the right stories or if we have the right facts on our side. The whole thing has been corrupted over the last decade or so."
— Dan Nestle [00:04:10 → 00:04:20]
Rafi Mendelsohn
On the Role of Bots in Social Media:
"From our research, the average conversation across social media has around four to seven percent of fake accounts. When we start to see certain conversations, whether it's political, wartime, or around brands, and those numbers are significantly higher, that's when we need to take a pause and understand exactly what's going on."
— Rafi Mendelsohn [00:19:01 → 00:19:20]
On the Impact of Fake Accounts on Brands:
"Brands can find themselves in hot water, not just because of something they've done, but purely by virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fake accounts can escalate a situation to the point that it gains media attention and impacts the brand's reputation."
— Rafi Mendelsohn [00:31:00 → 00:31:20]
On the Importance of Understanding Social Media Conversations:
"We need to differentiate between the fake accounts and the real ones, understand the narratives being pushed by fake accounts, and assess their impact on the real conversation. This is crucial for brands to respond appropriately."
— Rafi Mendelsohn [00:49:00 → 00:49:20]
On the Role of GenAI in Communications:
"GenAI can be a powerful tool for communicators. It can help us game out scenarios, prepare responses, and mitigate social media negativity. It's about using the technology to stay ahead of the challenges we face."
— Dan Nestle [00:52:00 → 00:52:20]
On the Role of GenAI in Disinformation:
"GenAI is fantastic, but in the hands of malicious actors, it becomes a tool for creating very believable content. This makes it harder for us to distinguish between real and fake accounts, complicating the challenge of maintaining trust."
— Rafi Mendelsohn [00:17:30 → 00:17:45]
On the Future of Communications:
"The next six to twelve months are going to be really interesting from our industry perspective. We need to up our game and work through the challenges posed by new technologies and threats to guide our organizations effectively."
— Rafi Mendelsohn [01:03:00 → 01:03:20] Resources and LinksDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterRafi Mendelsohn
Cyabra | Website Rafi Mendelsohn | LinkedInTimestamped summary for this episode (as generated by ChatGPT)
The trust crisis (00:00:00)
Discussion about the unprecedented decline in trust in institutions, the prevalence of misinformation, and the impact of technology and AI.
Introduction of Rafi Mendelsohn (00:01:12)
Dan introduces Rafi Mendelsohn, VP of Marketing at Cyabra, and discusses his background in PR and marketing.
AI's role in communication (00:02:09)
Exploration of the evolving role of AI in communication and the challenges faced by communicators and marketers.
Rafi's background (00:04:01)
Rafi's career journey from working in PR agencies to leading marketing at Cyabra, and his passion for data storytelling.
Cyabra's focus and mission (00:07:54)
Rafi discusses Cyabra's role in uncovering and mitigating misinformation and disinformation online, particularly in the context of social media.
Defining misinformation and disinformation (00:10:23)
Clearing the distinction between misinformation and disinformation, and the impact of these on societal narratives and trust.
Challenges of identifying bots (00:18:04)
The prevalence of bots in online conversations, the difficulty in identifying them, and the potential impact on public discourse.
Extent of bot presence (00:19:13)
Insights into the average percentage of fake accounts in online conversations and the significance of higher numbers in certain discussions.
Elon Musk's Twitter Acquisition (00:20:29)
Discussion about analyzing data for Elon Musk's potential acquisition of Twitter.
Impact of Fake Accounts (00:21:29)
Exploring the impact and dominance of fake accounts in online conversations and their influence on narratives.
Bot Activity on Various Platforms (00:22:39)
Observations of bot and malicious activity on different social media platforms, including Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn.
Geopolitical and Brand Disinformation (00:27:11)
Examination of how fake accounts drive conversations around geopolitical and brand-related issues, impacting public perception and creating crises.
Influence of Fake Accounts on Brands (00:29:14)
Analysis of how fake accounts can negatively impact brands, including examples of orchestrated campaigns targeting companies.
Challenges for Communicators (00:32:20)
Discussion on the challenges faced by communicators in defending brand reputation against bot-driven disinformation and crisis management.
Defensive Communications and Brand Disinformation (00:37:23)
Exploring the gap in defensive mindset between security and communications teams, and the need for tools to address bot attacks and disinformation.
Global Origins of Malicious Actors (00:39:32)
Understanding the diverse origins and motivations of malicious actors behind bot networks and disinformation campaigns.
Malicious Actors and Their Motivations (00:39:56)
Discussion on the motivations of malicious actors, including power, influence, and money, and their use of fake accounts to influence opinions.
Understanding the Different Actors and Risks (00:40:47)
Exploration of the various types of criminals and actors involved in cyber attacks, and the low barrier to entry for conducting such activities.
Dealing with Disinformation and Crisis Communications (00:41:46)
Addressing the challenges of combating disinformation, crisis communications strategies, and the impact of shadow banning on disseminating good information.
Social Media as One Channel for Communicators (00:44:10)
Emphasizing the importance of understanding the conversation and the individuals involved, and the need to differentiate between fake and real accounts.
Addressing Fake Accounts and Negative Activity (00:45:16)
Strategies for addressing fake accounts, including identifying and addressing "superspreaders" of negativity, and amplifying positive voices.
Vigilance and Defensive Measures (00:48:09)
The importance of vigilance, proactive defensive measures, and the need for companies to have systems in place to differentiate and respond to attacks.
Proactive Monitoring and Ignoring Certain Threats (00:52:09)
The significance of proactive monitoring, the need to respond selectively, and the empowerment of ignoring non-threatening issues
Using AI for Scenario Planning and Mitigation Tactics (00:53:17)
Exploring the potential use of AI for scenario planning and mitigation tactics, and the importance of early detection and preparation.
Impact of Bunker Mentality and Brand Exposure (00:54:52)
Discussion on the impact of brands adopting a bunker mentality and the need to address the increasing weaponization of social media by malicious actors.
Opportunity for Marketers and Communicators to Lead (00:58:40)
The opportunity for marketers and communicators to lead in understanding and addressing the impact of cyber threats and disinformation on society.
Profile Building and Concerns (01:00:00)
Discussion on the generation of profiles and the concerns regarding identifying real people.
Future Challenges for Communicators (01:00:59)
Predictions and concerns about the evolving role of communicators in dealing with new technology and threats.
Impact of Technology on Roles (01:03:46)
Discussion on the potential realignment of roles and responsibilities due to the influence of AI and technology.
Gratitude and Contact Information (01:05:56)
Expressing gratitude to the guest and providing contact information for further engagement.
Conclusion and Call to Action (01:07:24)
Closing remarks, encouraging subscription, sharing, and participation in future episodes.
(Notes prepared by humans with the assistance of a variety of AI tools, including ChatGPT and Flowsend.ai)
-
Is AI the greatest gift ever for lazy people? I've often said that if you want to find a better way to do something, ask a lazy person. Laziness, as it turns out, is a virtue. Lazy people want to find the most efficient way to get through a task. No wonder they're taking to AI like fish to water.
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle connects with Kami Huyse, CEO of Zoetica. A self-described "lazy entrepreneur," Kami has nonetheless blazed new trails in AI adoption and implementation and is a recognized PR industry thought leader, speaker, and author. Dan and Kami explore the transformative impact of AI on the PR and marketing industries, emphasizing the importance of ethical considerations and critical thinking.
Their discussion highlights the necessity of asking better questions, experimenting strategically, and maintaining a human-centric approach to AI. They also delve into AI's ethical challenges, stressing the need for transparency and responsible use.
It's anything but a lazy conversation - it's a must-listen for professionals looking to navigate the evolving landscape of AI in communications.
Listen in and hear about....
The importance of an entrepreneurial mindset while embracing AI AI "recipes" that can help you advance from a "home cook" prompter to a true AI "chef" How prompting skills may become obsolete as AI integration in software increases The necessity of critical thinking, curiosity, and a strategic mindset for effective AI interaction The importance of ethics and transparency when we use AI How AI can assist in content creation while maintaining a brand's unique voice and style Practical insights on leveraging AI for community building and social media strategyNotable Quotes
On Being a Lazy Entrepreneur:
- "I call myself a lazy entrepreneur in a sense, because what I've always done is I look at a problem that's in front of me, and I try to figure out a way to do it more efficiently and different."
— Kami Huyse [00:03:33 → 00:03:45]
On the Evolution of Social Media and AI:
- "I've always been a forward-leaning person, and we did some of the first social media campaigns for big, big brands that you would know. So we did those social media campaigns early because we look at solving problems with current technology. And to me, AI is just an extension of that."
— Kami Huyse [00:05:00 → 00:05:20]
On the Importance of Asking Better Questions:
- "We need to start to think about how to elevate those conversations. What do we need to, what questions do we need to be asking? We need to ask better questions. That's where the training comes in."
— Kami Huyse [00:12:00 → 00:12:10]
On the Role of Imperfection in Human Creativity:
- "How do we have a pattern interrupt? I'll tell you how you throw in the imperfect human. That's how you tell imperfect stories. You talk about being a lazy entrepreneur. These are pattern interrupts that AI won't come up with on its own."
— Kami Huyse [00:30:00 → 00:30:15]On the Future of AI and Human Interaction:
- "We need to think about what can we bring to the table that is like a spice of human while understanding fully the AI and using it fully. So not throwing the baby out the bathwater, as we always said, but using the AI for what it's good for and throwing in your own spice."
— Kami Huyse [00:30:30 → 00:30:50]
On the Ethical Use of AI:
- "AI isn't inherently evil, but the people who wield it are maybe so there's people that wield the AI. Here's the problem with AI in general. It's just like our society. Like, we talk about, you know, racism and bias and, you know, sexism and terrible things. Here's what AI does. It takes all of the knowledge of the world, and it boils it down and it repeats it back to you."
— Kami Huyse [00:59:41 → 01:00:10]
On the Role of Communicators in Ethical AI:
- "We as PR communicators should be the ombudsman for our organizations. We should bring our point of view to protect the people that we represent as PR people. And the people we represent are our audience, are our customers, our stakeholders."
— Kami Huyse [01:06:25 → 01:06:45]Resources and Links
Dan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterKami Huyse
Kami's Flowpage: Links to social media, resources, and more Zoetica Media, Digital Agency | WebsiteBooks Mentioned
The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever: More than 350 inspiring ideas!, by Mark Schaefer and Friends (Including Kami and Dan) Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI, by Ethan MollickTimestamped summary for this episode (as generated by ChatGPT)
The origin of ideas (00:00:00)
Dan discusses his excitement for new ideas and tech, including the concept of creating custom GPT.
The traits of successful idea execution (00:01:02)
Dan outlines the traits and qualities required for successful idea execution, such as discipline, focus, and support.
Introduction of Kami Huyse (00:02:01)
Dan introduces Kami Huyse, highlighting her background and expertise in PR, marketing, and AI integration.
Kami's problem-solving approach (00:03:46)
Kami discusses her approach to solving problems efficiently and her focus on community building and AI integration.
Evolution of media and technology (00:09:53)
Dan and Kami reflect on the digital transformation and the importance of hands-on experiences in the marketing profession.
The importance of AI training and mindset (00:11:55)
Kami emphasizes the significance of training and developing an entrepreneurial mindset for effectively integrating AI in communication and marketing.
Ethan Mollick's principles of AI interaction (00:17:07)
Dan discusses Ethan Mollick's principles for interacting with AI, including inviting AI to the table, being the human in the loop, treating AI like a person, and acknowledging AI's continuous improvement.
The importance of asking better questions (00:18:56)
Kami discusses the importance of asking better questions to guide AI in achieving desired tasks and outcomes.
The analogy of home cook and chef (00:19:37)
Kami compares the difference between a home cook and a chef to illustrate the importance of understanding and utilizing AI tools effectively.
The need for strategic training in AI tools (00:21:40)
Kami emphasizes the significance of strategic training for the next generation to effectively use AI tools and adapt to the evolving marketplace.
The integration of AI in software applications (00:22:54)
The discussion revolves around the increasing integration of AI capabilities in various software applications and its impact on prompting and human interaction.
The evolving role of prompting in AI usage (00:24:01)
The conversation delves into the evolving role of prompting in AI usage, the impact of contextual understanding, and the distinction between chefs and home cooks in utilizing AI.
The significance of asking power questions (00:25:04)
The importance of asking power questions and the role of strategic prompting in utilizing AI effectively is highlighted.
The importance of being relentlessly curious (00:27:07)
Kami emphasizes the significance of being relentlessly curious and training the brain to notice and understand AI interactions.
The concept of almost homemade solutions (00:29:01)
Kami discusses the concept of almost homemade solutions, encouraging individuals to add their own unique touch to AI tools for personalized outcomes.
The value of the imperfect human in AI interaction (00:30:01)
The significance of embracing imperfection and adding human elements to AI interactions for unique and effective outcomes is emphasized.
The need for critical thinking and curiosity in AI interaction (00:32:02)
The importance of critical thinking, curiosity, and asking questions to drive effective interaction with AI tools is discussed.
The importance of adding personal touch to AI tools (00:33:56)
The significance of adding a personal touch and unique spice to AI tools for tailored and effective utilization is highlighted.
The significance of being a critical thinker and inquisitive communicator (00:37:05)
The importance of critical thinking, curiosity, and being an inquisitive communicator in adapting to AI tools and driving effective outcomes is emphasized.
Critical thinking (00:38:20)
Emphasizing the importance of critical thinking skills in evaluating information and avoiding deception.
Asking better questions (00:39:12)
Highlighting the significance of asking great questions to avoid monolithic content and promoting individuality.
Life experiences and personal touch (00:40:10)
Discussing the value of bringing personal experiences and unique elements to content creation to avoid generic outcomes.
Human element in AI (00:41:49)
Emphasizing the need for human input and caution when relying solely on AI, acknowledging occasional breakdowns and the importance of adding personal touch.
Ethics and AI technology (00:42:43)
Exploring the ethical implications of AI technology, including power consumption and the need for continuous input of new information.
Reading and vocabulary (00:48:27)
Stressing the importance of reading to enhance vocabulary and improve communication with AI.
Writing and editing (00:50:20)
Emphasizing the significance of being a good writer and engaging in editing to effectively communicate with AI.
Community involvement (00:52:52)
Advocating joining communities to learn from peers and stay informed about emerging technologies.
Curiosity and diverse learning (00:54:51)
Encouraging continuous curiosity, diverse learning, and open-mindedness to expand knowledge and perspectives.
Neuroscience and AI (00:57:08)
Discussion on the neuroscience behind AI interaction and the concept of neural networks.
Ethical Considerations (00:58:22)
Exploration of the societal, political, and civilizational changes brought by powerful digital entities and the focus on ethical AI usage.
Bias in AI (01:00:04)
Insight into the biases present in AI and the need for training to reduce biases, with examples of biased prompts and diversity representation.
AI Governance and Ethics (01:05:44)
Discussion on the need for external oversight in AI governance and the role of communicators as ethical safeguards.
Transparency and Ethics (01:08:24)
Importance of transparency in AI usage and the alignment of AI ethics with general ethical principles and governance.
Ethical Decision-Making (01:13:25)
Emphasis on the responsibility of individuals to inject morality and ethics into AI, and the ongoing discussion and importance of ethical considerations.
Backbone and Ethics (01:15:08)
The need for courage and backbone in ethical decision-making, with a focus on the role of communicators in promoting ethical practices.
Difficult decisions (01:16:14)
Discussion on the challenge of expressing contravening opinions and the weight of decision-making in today's society.
Tools and resources (01:17:14)
Mention of plans to discuss tools and resources, and a recommendation to connect with Kami for valuable resources.
Connect with Kami (01:18:00)
Information on how to connect with Kami Huyse on social media and her company, Kamchatka, and a mention of her live streams and AI show.
Closing remarks (01:19:52)
Gratitude for Kami's participation and an invitation to subscribe, share, and provide feedback for the podcast.
(Notes prepared by humans with the assistance of a variety of AI tools, including ChatGPT and Flowsend.ai)
-
How do FBI hostage negotiation tactics link to public relations and corporate crisis management? And how can understanding both help you prove your value to your stakeholders and audiences?
Demonstrating value is a familiar hurdle for communicators, especially when navigating the turbulent waters of a crisis. Effective crisis communication provides a crucial lifeline that can make or break a company's reputation.
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with two incredible guests: PR agency CEO, crisis counselor, and advisor to at least one US president, Adele Gambardella, and retired FBI agent, hostage negotiator, and spy chaser, Chip Massey. Now, as co-founders of The Convincing Company, they help their clients navigate crises and provide the training they need to prepare for the challenges ahead. With Dan, they dive deep into the art and science of crisis communication and persuasion and how a methodical approach to analyzing conversations - Forensic Listening - may be the most powerful skill a communicator should have. You'll discover the power of forensic listening, the subtlety of non-verbal cues, and the strategic use of targeted validation to build trust and rapport and get to the core of hidden narratives that drive crisis response.
Adele and Chip also discuss groundbreaking topics like the role of AI in communication analysis, the persuasive power of predictive statements, and why companies need to take bold stances on controversial issues. Drawing from their book Convince Me, they highlight the importance of deep listening and emotional control in mastering effective communication and negotiation.
Don't miss out on these practical tips that are ready to be implemented, designed to enhance your crisis communication strategies and empower you to confidently demonstrate your value to stakeholders.
Listen in and hear about...
The evolving role of crisis communication in handling modern threats like misinformation and AI misuse. The formation and impact of the Convincing Company, which integrates PR strategies and crisis negotiation. The concept of forensic listening and its application in understanding and addressing communication nuances. The importance of adapting communication strategies to handle high-stress situations effectively. Strategies for corporate communicators to prepare for and respond to contentious societal issues, especially in politically charged climates. The distinction between convincing and negotiating, emphasizing the importance of aligning values and visions for effective communication outcomes.Notable Quotes
On the Importance of Crisis Communication:
"When there's trouble, communicators roll up their sleeves and get to work. We turn trouble around and send it away. Nobody questions our value then."
— Dan Nestle [00:01:30 → 00:01:40]On the Value of Forensic Listening:
"Forensic listening is the art and science of analyzing a conversation after it's happened. Words leave clues."
— Chip Massey [00:16:30 → 00:16:40]On the Importance of Crisis Training:
"Crisis management is a muscle. It's one of those things that, like, I love it because I think really fast and on my feet... It's a muscle, though."
— Adele Gambardella [00:52:44 → 00:53:00]On Convincing vs. Negotiating:
"As a hostage negotiator, I never negotiated with anybody. I was actually convincing that person to value what I valued."
— Chip Massey [01:06:00 → 01:06:10]On the Importance of Not Starting with Your Strongest Point:
"Never start with your strongest point first, because if you do that, all you do is make everybody in the room dig their heels in."
— Adele Gambardella [01:10:45 → 01:11:00]On Deep Listening:
"Deep listening... our own stress improves when we're really listening and trying to help somebody else and we can come up with better solutions."
— Chip Massey [01:11:45 → 01:12:00]Resources & Links
Dan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter (@dsnestle)Adele Gambardella and Chip Massey
Adele Gambardella | LinkedIn Chip Massey | LinkedIn The Convincing Company | Instagram (@convincingco) The Convincing Company | WebsiteMentioned
Book: Convince Me: High-Stakes Negotiation Tactics to Get Results in Any Business Situation
Timestamped summary for this episode (as generated by ChatGPT)
Introduction of Guests (00:01:07)
Introduction of Adele Gambardella and Chip Massey, their backgrounds, and their collaboration in crisis communications.
Formation of The Convincing Company (00:02:11)
Adele and Chip explain how they met, their complementary skill sets, and the formation of The Convincing Company.
Adele's Burnout and Meeting Chip (00:09:28)
Adele's experience with burnout, meeting Chip, and the realization of their complementary expertise.
Forensic Listening (00:16:40)
Chip explains the concept of forensic listening and its importance in understanding emotions and themes in conversations for effective communication.
Understanding the Meeting (00:21:37)
Interpreting underlying messages in a meeting, identifying emotions, and linking them with the topic.
Body Positioning (00:22:33)
Understanding the significance of body positioning in communication, its impact on energy and value.
Voice Analysis (00:23:42)
Analyzing pitch, tone, and cadence in communication, and its importance in understanding emotions and messages.
Forensic Listening Story (00:27:13)
A real-life example illustrating the importance of observing body positioning and non-verbal cues in communication.
Applying Forensic Listening (00:35:50)
Understanding the application of forensic listening in different scenarios, including crisis situations and meetings.
Validation and Trust (00:39:19)
The importance of validation in corporate communication, building trust, and influencing positive outcomes.
The fortune teller's impact (00:41:38)
Discussion on the convincing nature of fortune tellers and a personal experience with a fortune teller in a high school class.
Predictive statements in convincing (00:43:28)
Exploration of how predictive statements are used to convince and manipulate, with an example of a statement made to the host.
The power of open questions (00:45:00)
The effectiveness of open questions in conversations and negotiations, and the different responses they can elicit.
Predictive statements in interviews (00:46:52)
The use of predictive statements in hostage negotiations and interviews to encourage conversation and elicit information.
Emotion in crisis response (00:49:51)
The role of emotion in crisis response and the importance of managing fear as a motivator in difficult situations.
Crisis management as a skill (00:53:24)
The discussion of crisis management as a skill that needs to be continuously practiced and developed, with a workshop example.
Challenges in crisis communication (00:55:15)
The challenges faced in crisis communication, including conflicting advice from legal and the importance of countering instincts.
Understanding unstated narratives (00:57:17)
The significance of understanding unstated narratives and how it can provide an advantage in communication and negotiation.
Future of crisis communication (01:00:02)
Anticipation of companies taking stances on controversial issues and the need for communicators to identify core issues and boundaries.
The duty to respond (01:03:20)
Discussion about the duty of companies to respond to relevant issues that align with their core values.
Training for emotional control (01:04:07)
Importance of training for emotional control and scenario planning in heightened and polarizing times.
High-level convincing (01:06:40)
Exploration of convincing as a higher level negotiation strategy, focusing on future and motivation.
Social media presence (01:10:02)
Mention of the convincing company's social media presence and content strategy.
Effective communication strategy (01:10:44)
Insight on the importance of not starting with the strongest point first in communication strategies.
Deep listening (01:11:46)
The benefits of deep listening for stress reduction and creativity.
(Notes prepared by humans with the assistance of a variety of AI tools, including ChatGPT and Flowsend.ai)
-
Generative AI may be the first form of artificial intelligence that we can all interact with directly, with no skill needed apart from the ability to write or speak a set of instructions. And while it's arguably the hottest topic right now, other AI tools and applications can elevate capabilities and help communicators and marketers move up the value chain.
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle ventures once again into the transformative potential of AI in the communications field with guest Danny Gaynor, Head of Kelp (which he co-founded) at Signal AI. Danny's journey from a political strategist and corporate communications executive to an AI innovator offers a unique perspective on how technology can reshape the way we approach storytelling and reputation management.
Dan and Danny explore the critical role of AI in enhancing the precision and impact of communications strategies. They discuss the limitations of traditional methods like surveys and focus groups, which often provide outdated and narrow insights. Instead, Danny introduces the concept of discriminative AI, a powerful tool that uncovers the nuanced context of topics and entities - allowing communicators to identify their true areas of strength, optimize their narratives, and navigate potential risks with unprecedented accuracy. Danny shares practical examples of how this technology can validate intuition, offer reputational ROI, and act as a single source of truth across an organization.They discuss how connecting discriminative and generative AI can be a powerful combination, helping communicators and their colleagues make data-driven decisions and demonstrate their impact. Looking ahead, they envision a future where AI-enabled communicators are not just content creators but strategic leaders who drive decision-making with data-backed insights, painting a compelling picture of the transformative potential of AI in the communications field.
Listen in and hear about...
How measurement in communications is being transformed by AI, enhancing capabilities significantly. Danny Gaynor's transition from a political and corporate communications expert to co-founding an AI-powered corporate reputation platform. Distinguishing between generative AI and discriminative AI, and their unique roles in enhancing communication strategies. Identifying and leveraging unique proof points to create differentiated corporate narratives. AI's role in helping communicators validate their intuition, provide reputational ROI, and unify information across organizational functions. Why communicators need to experiment with AI, train their own AI models, and showcase the impact of data-driven strategies. Shifts in the role of communicators within organizations, moving from reliance on intuition to becoming strategic, data-driven influencers.Notable Quotes
[06:05] "As a communications professional, I think we're all vexed by the exact same question: Am I throwing the right spaghetti at the wall?" - Danny Gaynor
[07:18] "A goal without a deadline is just a dream." - Danny Gaynor
[40:13] "I very much see the folks embracing AI in communications as being even more influential leaders at their companies, as opposed to being out of a job." - Danny Gaynor
[41:18] "If you're stuck with 'Oh well, if AI takes this away, what am I going to do?' then frankly, you probably deserve not to do anything once AI takes your job away." - Dan Nestle
[57:50] "You can make AI your own, you can make the ingredients your own, and you can make the outputs your own in a way that is more accessible than ever before." - Danny Gaynor
[59:52] "It's a very rare moment in the history of capitalism where we can develop something that will be industry standard and that will be reputational ROI, that will be quantifying the impact of communications." -DannyGaynorResources & Links
Dan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterDanny Gaynor
Signal AI | Website Kelp | LinkedIn Daniel Gaynor | LinkedInTimestamped summary for this episode (generated by ChatGPT)
[00:01:09] Daniel's career journey
Daniel Gaynor shares his career trajectory from politics to communications and his focus on measurement and AI.
[00:05:35] Understanding discriminative AI
Daniel Gaynor explores the concept of discriminative AI and its role in communication and measurement.
[00:09:29] The need for data-driven insights
The discussion turns to the limitations of traditional research methods and the potential of technology to provide better audience research and insights.
[00:15:53] Leveraging AI for communication
The benefits of using AI to analyze big data and craft communication strategies based on authentic proof points are explored.
[00:19:44] Discriminative AI vs. generative AI
The conversation contrasts discriminative AI with generative AI and highlights its role as a complement tool in communication and creativity.
[00:20:42] Generative and Discriminative AI
An explanation of generative and discriminative AI and their potential synergy for content evaluation and categorization is provided.
[00:21:56] Limitations of Boolean Searches
The limitations of using keywords and the need for discriminative AI to evaluate accuracy and create reputational ROI are discussed.
[00:22:25] Identifying Areas of Strength
How discriminative AI can help communicators identify narrative strengths and weaknesses in competitive landscapes is discussed.
[00:25:17] Challenges in Identifying Strengths
The difficulties communicators face in identifying narrative strengths and the importance of foundational theory and horizon scanning are discussed.
[00:27:26] Training AI Topics
The process of training topics in discriminative AI to ensure accuracy and relevance in content categorization is explained.
[00:28:35] Tweaking Topic Definitions
The process of refining individual topic definitions until reaching high accuracy and the benefits of a broad horizon scan are discussed.
[00:29:33] Narrative Validation
The need for narrative validation and specificity in corporate narratives to ensure credibility and relevance is emphasized.
[00:30:41] Analyzing Message Effectiveness
Understanding where messages are falling flat and the importance of focusing on fewer, deeper storylines is discussed.
[00:31:50] Risk Avoidance and Reputation Threats
Using discriminative AI to determine material threats to reputation and focus attention on critical issues is discussed.
[00:33:01] Data Insights and Strategic Reports
The importance of providing data insights through dashboards and strategic reports to make data digestible for communicators is highlighted.
[00:36:29] Generative AI and Product Development
The potential for communicators to become product developers by leveraging generative AI and retooling the power of discriminative AI is discussed.
[00:40:13] AI as a Convening Force
The role of AI in communications as a single source of truth that provides quantitative rationale and reputational ROI is discussed.
[00:41:18] Abundance Mentality with AI
The speaker encourages embracing AI as an additive element and to have an abundance mentality towards change and upskilling.
[00:42:17] Embracing AI in Communication
The potential of AI tools and the need to experiment and gain expertise in AI are discussed.
[00:44:23] Strategic Shift in Communication
The evolving role of communicators from writing press releases to being strategic advisors and decision-makers is discussed.
[00:46:40] Professional Advancement and Recognition
The need for the communication profession to be recognized for AI expertise and strategic input within the organization is emphasized.
[00:47:10] Training AI and Socializing Data
The importance of training AI, socializing data-driven messaging, and demonstrating data-driven impact is discussed.
[00:50:09] Utilizing AI for Analysis
Ways to use AI for benchmark analysis and deep dive analysis to demonstrate the capacity of AI and big data are explored.
[00:54:53] Corporate Environment and AI Ownership
The need for AI ownership shared across different teams and the importance of recognizing AI's potential are discussed.
[00:57:50] Humanizing Messaging with AI
AI's role in humanizing messaging and making communications more relatable, digestible, and emotionally resonant is discussed.
[00:59:22] Hopeful Future of AI
Predictions about the future impact of AI and the development of industry-standard reputational ROI metrics are made.
[01:02:48] Adapting AI to Unforeseen Avenues
The speaker encourages embracing disruptive innovation and adapting AI to new and unforeseen applications.
[01:03:48] Reputational shifts in less sexy industries
Experimentation with AI in non-household name industries to manage reputational shifts is encouraged.
[01:04:42] Connecting with Daniel Gaynor
Information on how to find and connect with Daniel Gaynor on LinkedIn and Signal AI is provided.
[01:05:53] Future mini-series and show and tell
Discussions on making a mini-series within the Trending Communicator ecosystem and a potential show and tell video demonstration are mentioned.
[01:06:44] Closing remarks and call to action
The speaker expresses appreciation, salutation, and a call to action for subscribing, sharing, and leaving reviews for the podcast.
(Notes prepared by humans with the assistance of a variety of AI tools, including ChatGPT and Flowsend.ai)
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Like it or not, Generative AI is becoming part of the communications toolkit. But unlike any technology that has preceded it, AI is able to perform tasks and produce results that have always been the domain of PR professionals - especially at the entry-level. And that's just today; AI is only going to get better. How can communicators and marketers adapt, adopt, and advance in this new, AI-enabled reality?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle dives deep into the challenges and opportunities AI presents for communications professionals with Anne Green, CEO of G&S Business Communications. Anne, an award-winning communicator, thought leader, and advocate for ethics within the PR profession, is leading the charge toward AI enablement within her agency and for her clients. But she’s keenly aware of the technology's black-box nature and, in the episode, outlines an approach that ensures ethical adoption and enablement.
Anne and Dan delve into these ethical considerations and much more as they examine the evolving role of AI in marketing and communications. They discuss the importance of approaching AI with a critical and ethical lens, considering its impact on human interactions and the industry's hiring practices. At the same time, they explore how AI can enhance strategic thinking and help communications professionals deliver greater impact to their businesses. Anne also shares her concerns about online divisiveness and disinformation, emphasizing resilience and big-picture focus. The episode concludes with a positive outlook on human creativity and the importance of staying engaged in societal discussions.
Listen in and hear about...
Ethical dilemmas for marketers in the tech and AI revolution. The critical role of ethics in AI-driven marketing. AI's growing business role and the imperative of strategic adoption. The need to find a personal advantage in new tech adoption. Adapting to AI's impact on communication and thought. The importance of bridging AI and organizational goals. The rise of online disinformation and its societal impact. Optimism in the human capacity for innovation.Notable Quotes
[05:50] "I want to see writing that's electric, that leaps off the page, even if it's a marketing pitch or something." - Anne Green
[20:13] "There's a lot of misperceptions about what this industry is about, but like anything in human life, there are the angels and the bad actors." - Anne Green
[29:01] "I want to invite people to think about big picture questions like what will it mean to be human? What does authorship mean? What does it mean to have co-intelligence or augmented intellect?" - Anne Green
[41:08] "In the case of generative AI, you need to approach it as if you are about to have an interaction." - Dan Nestle
[01:05:01] "I am kept up with the proliferation of divisiveness and fake stuff online, and very much engineered disinformation, which is upsetting to me." - Anne GreenResources & Links
Dan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterAnne Green
G&S Business Communications | Website Anne Green | LinkedInTimestamped summary for this episode (generated by ChatGPT)
[00:01:15] Anne Green's career path
Anne Green discusses her career path, from an internship to becoming CEO, highlighting the accidental nature of her journey.
[00:06:10] Reflecting on past experiences
Dan Nestle and Anne Green reminisce about their past experiences, specifically their connection through Cooper Katz and the impact of their mentors.
[00:10:56] The enduring importance of writing
Dan Nestle emphasizes the timeless importance of writing and critical thinking in the PR profession, despite technological advancements.
[00:13:14] Adapting to changes in communications
Anne Green reflects on the changes in communication, from the advent of social media to the impact of technology on writing and critical thinking.
[00:16:14] The role of PR in upholding quality
Dan Nestle discusses the frustration of spin in PR and the need for the profession to uphold quality, truth, and critical thinking.
[00:19:22] Challenges in content quality
Dan Nestle and Anne Green acknowledge the prevalence of low-quality content and the need for PR to play a role in promoting good writing and ethical standards.
[00:19:31] Ethical Awareness in the Industry
Discussion about ethical awareness in the communications field and the responsibility to maintain integrity.
[00:21:15] Adoption of New Technology
Exploring the industry's capability to use new technology tools and the need to bring an ethical lens to their usage.
[00:24:46] Impact of AI on the Profession
Discussion on the changing landscape of the communications profession due to the rise of artificial intelligence and the need for professionals to adapt.
[00:35:17] The Personal Relationship with Technology
Exploring the personal impact of technology and the process of finding "killer apps" that create a personal connection with technology.
[00:38:23] Projection into the Future
Contemplation on the profound changes brought about by new technology and the challenges of projecting forward in a rapidly changing industry.
[00:39:16] The complexity of AI
Discussion about the evolving security measures and the need to adapt to changing technological threats.
[00:40:04] Understanding the "black box" of AI
Exploring the mystery and complexity of AI's decision-making processes and the work being done to uncover its inner workings.
[00:41:04] Learning a new way of speaking to AI
Adapting communication styles to interact effectively with AI, emphasizing the need for a different approach compared to traditional search engines.
[00:42:07] Refining questions for AI interaction
Emphasizing the need for iterative and refined questioning when engaging with AI to extract the desired information.
[00:44:14] Adapting to conversational AI
Drawing parallels between the evolution of search engines and the need to adapt to conversational AI, highlighting the shift in interaction styles.
[00:45:55] Challenges and opportunities with AI adoption
Discussing the learning curve, mindset shift, and the potential for leveraging AI to work smarter and add value.
[00:53:19] AI's impact on communication professionals
Exploring the unique skill set of communication professionals and their potential to excel in leveraging AI for business and client needs.
[00:55:42] Evolving roles and skill sets in the AI era
Emphasizing the elite nature of communication profession and the need to recognize, practice, and adapt to the skill sets required in the AI era.
[00:59:02] The role of a communicator
Understanding the depth of knowledge needed about a business and its stakeholders.
[01:01:00] Enhancing communication through AI
Using AI to enhance communication by connecting dots and providing additional insights.
[01:05:01] Challenges and hopes for the future
Concerns about disinformation and divisiveness, along with hopes for a better future and the role of AI.
[01:06:55] Looking ahead with optimism
Expressing hope for positive changes through human creativity and invention, and the potential of AI.
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Want to stop wasting time and money on conferences that don't impact your business growth? Imagine being able to select conferences that not only boost your brand's influence but also drive strategic partnerships and sales. Fortunately, there's a solution that will help you achieve this and more. Let's dive in and take your conference strategy to the next level.
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle is joined by guest Melanie Samba, the CEO of Sproxxy, a one-of-a-kind platform that helps corporate communication and marketing professionals make data-driven decisions for events and conferences.
Dan and Melanie delve deep into the ever-evolving role of technology in marketing and communications, especially as it relates to the traditionally Excel-driven world of conference and event planning. Melanie discusses the challenges of promoting communications technology (also known as commstech or commtech) to investors and emphasizes the importance of integrating technology into corporate strategies.
They discuss Sproxxy's State of Conferences report, highlighting the significance of conferences for business-building, industry influence, relationship-building, and networking, and how the use of data-driven tools like Sproxxy can help optimize conference strategies. Through their conversation, Melanie shares her experiences as a tech founder, the integration of AI in Sproxxy, and the platform's potential to predict industry trends and influence conferences. She highlights the use of AI to gauge audience engagement at events and the insights that can be derived from conference data. Melanie also reflects on the challenges and excitement of being a woman founder in tech, her journey with Sproxxy, and her vision for its future.
Listen in and hear…
Data-driven AI-powered approaches to measuring the impact of conferences The significance of building relationships with conference organizers Business impact of speaking engagements at conferences The integration of technology into marketing and communication strategies Skepticism surrounding commstech and conveying its value to investors Inevitability of technology's role in shaping the future of all companies Efforts of communications professionals to advocate for the integration of technology Insights from Melanie's experiences as a tech founderResources & Links
Melanie Samba
Melanie Samba | LinkedIn Sproxxy | Website Sproxxy | Twitter/XDan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | Twitter/XTimestamped summary for this episode (generated by Capsho, my AI assistant)
00:00:00 - Introduction to the Importance of Conferences
Dan Nestle highlights the significance of conferences for learning, reputation building, and business development in the field of communication and marketing. He also acknowledges the anxiety and challenges associated with choosing the right conferences due to budget constraints.
00:01:39 - Leveraging Data-Driven Approach for Conference Selection
Melanie Samba, the CEO of Sproxxy, discusses the need for a data-driven, AI-powered approach to choosing conferences and measuring their impact on an organization. She emphasizes the importance of making informed decisions rather than relying on past experiences or emotions.
00:05:03 - Challenges of Managing Conferences
Melanie shares her experience in managing conferences for a pharmaceutical company, highlighting the complexities involved in coordinating over 400 employees' participation, ensuring regulatory compliance, and maintaining consistent messaging across the organization.
00:07:25 - The Underappreciated Role of Conferences in Corporate Communications
The conversation delves into the underappreciation of conferences in corporate communications, with Dan and Melanie discussing the budget allocation challenges and the perception of conferences as a nice-to-have rather than a strategic necessity for thought leadership and brand positioning.
00:14:39 - Evolution of Sproxxy from Idea to Product
Melanie shares the journey of transforming her initial idea of Sproxxy into a tangible product. She reflects on the pivotal moment when the pandemic led to the realization of the increased demand for events, prompting her to productize Sproxxy and pursue her entrepreneurial venture.
00:16:39 - The Rise of Virtual Events
Melanie discusses the explosion of virtual events during the pandemic, highlighting the shift in focus and the doubling of industry events to 1.8 million. She also shares her insights into how conference organizers adapted to the new landscape.
00:19:31 - Building Relationships in the Conference Space
Melanie talks about the importance of building relationships with conference organizers, similar to how relationships are built with the media. She explains how she developed these connections over time through her role in pitching executives and contributing to event programs.
00:22:44 - Importance of Community in Conferences
The discussion delves into the significance of being part of a community at conferences, with Melanie sharing her personal experience of meeting her corporate comms head at a conference in Portugal. The community aspect is highlighted as a key motivator for attending conferences.
00:25:57 - Engaging with Media at Conferences
Melanie sheds light on the presence of journalists at conferences and the opportunities they present for engaging with the media. She emphasizes the value of leveraging conferences as a platform for securing media coverage and building relationships with journalists.
00:33:07 - The State of Conferences Report
Melanie introduces the State of Conferences report, emphasizing its focus on the brand's perspective and the value it brings to understanding conference strategies. The report aims to provide insights into the current trends and perceptions surrounding conferences for marketers and agencies.
00:33:59 - Peer-to-Peer Insights on Conferences
Melanie discusses the importance of peer-to-peer insights for branding, marketing, and communications professionals in understanding what their peers are doing in the conference space. The report highlighted common issues such as managing conferences using Excel spreadsheets and the need for audience reach metrics.
00:36:56 - Differentiating Conferences and Trade Shows
Melanie differentiates conferences from trade shows, emphasizing the focus on thought leadership, branding, and strategic partnerships. She highlights the importance of audience reach as the number one metric for measuring success at conferences, as revealed in the report.
00:40:06 - Impact of Speaking Engagements
The report uncovered the increasing value of speaking engagements for executives and the business impact they have. Melanie discusses the importance of understanding the rationale for attending conferences and shares how Sproxxy provides insights on competitor activity at conferences.
00:44:01 - Refining Product Based on Customer Feedback
Melanie shares how the state of conferences report was used to refine the Sproxxy product, aligning it with the needs and challenges faced by marketing and communications professionals. She emphasizes the importance of developing a data-informed approach for attending conferences and measuring success.
00:49:40 - The Evolution of Comstech and Sproxxy
Melanie discusses the challenges of selling Comstech to investors and emphasizes the need for technology in every company. She reflects on her transition from corporate comms to developing Sproxxy and highlights the role of Comstech in enabling communicators to
00:50:59 - The Importance of Digital Communications and Marketing Integration
Melanie and Dan discuss the necessity for companies to integrate digital communication and marketing strategies. Melanie emphasizes the importance of being equipped with the right tools to remain relevant in the future.
00:52:52 - The Origins of Sproxxy and its Purpose
Melanie shares her journey of developing Sproxxy and its original purpose to prove the value of her work as a corporate comms professional. She highlights the need to have a data-informed approach and the role of AI in providing insights.
00:55:56 - AI Integration in Sproxxy and its Impact on the Industry
Melanie discusses the integration of AI in Sproxxy and its potential to predict conference topics, influence industry evolution, and gather insights on audience demographics. She emphasizes the power of AI to accelerate innovation and change the trajectory of an industry.
01:00:27 - Leveraging Sproxxy for Thought Leadership and Industry Influence
Melanie explores the potential of Sproxxy to predict conference topics, tailor thought leadership platforms, and influence the industry based on gathered data and insights. She highlights the role of communicators in shaping industry trends and influencing audiences.
01:02:28 - The Challenges and Excitement of Being a Woman Founder and the Future of Sproxxy
Melanie reflects on the excitement and challenges of being a woman founder and the unexpected growth of Sproxxy. She emphasizes the need for more solutions in corporate comms and marketing and encourages others to step up and provide the necessary help for the industry.
01:06:56 - Exciting Future for Listeners
Melanie expresses her excitement for the future of the listeners, emphasizing the potential for growth and success in their businesses.
01:07:22 - Where to Find Melanie
Dan and Melanie discuss where listeners can find Melanie online, including her website, LinkedIn, and Instagram.
01:07:54 - The Cutting Edge of Conferences
Melanie highlights the innovative functions and capabilities of Sproxxy.com, emphasizing its ability to help individuals understand and navigate complex conferences.
01:08:21 - Making Speakers Shine
The conversation focuses on the importance of helping speakers shine and exerting influence at conferences, positioning the podcast as a platform for discussing impactful communication strategies.
01:08:40 - Closing Remarks
Dan wraps up the episode, encouraging listeners to subscribe, share, and leave reviews, while also inviting potential future guests to reach out and be part of the show. -
How do language and psychology impact leadership behavior and financial performance in organizations? Are we overlooking the influence of corporate language?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with psychologist, neuroscientist, speaker, consultant, and author of Neuroscience for Organizational Communication: A Guide for Communicators and Leaders, Dr. Laura McHale.
Dan and Laura explore the intersection of neuroscience and organizational communication, looking into Laura’s background in executive communications and her journey into neuroscience for leadership psychology. They delve into how status affects the brain, the SCARF model, and the concept of power distance in workplace dynamics before examining the complexities of employee engagement, the impact of social exclusion, and the importance of relatedness for a sense of belonging. They touch on the challenges of absentee leadership and the significance of inclusive communication practices for a positive work environment.
They also discuss the intricate relationship between language, communication, and AI within organizational contexts. Laura emphasizes the significance of "pronoun agility" and the problematic nature of weasel words in corporate communication. Using Enron's internal communications as a case study, they explore how language can reflect a company's financial health. The conversation also addresses the potential of AI, like ChatGPT, to revolutionize the communications field while also considering the risks of misuse and the importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience. The episode concludes with reflections on the future skills needed by communicators in an AI-influenced landscape.
Listen in and hear…
The importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience in communications within organizations The complexity of communication in remote interactions and interpreting cues The neuroscience behind followership and cultural influences on behavior Impact of status on the brain and the SCARF model Leader distance or power distance and its effect on communication dynamics Complexity and challenges of measuring and understanding employee engagement Impact of social exclusion in the workplace and fostering a sense of belonging Implications of absentee leadership on employee communications and internal communications The relationship between corporate language and financial performance Concerns about the erosion of language and acceptance of weasel words Potential impact of AI on the communications profession and political discourseNotable Quotes
[27:56] - "When our relatedness is threatened, it lights up so many pain centers of the brain; it's an extraordinarily painful phenomenon." -Dr. Laura McHale [22:28] -"Absentee leadership is reported seven times more than any other destructive leadership behavior; it is absolutely epidemic in our organizations and a big problem.” - Dr. Laura McHale [45:03] - “It really doesn't matter how perfect a communication is if the leadership behavior doesn't back it up; actions speak louder than words.” - Dr. Laura McHale [45:30] - “We as communicators can be brilliant at drafting words, but it ultimately needs actions and behaviors backing it up, otherwise it just becomes an exercise in cynicism.” - Dr. Laura McHale [47:55] - “We can only go so far in helping the leaders to frame what they're going to say, but ultimately it's going to be their behaviors that truly matter.” - Dr. Laura McHaleResources & Links
Dan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterDr. Laura McHale
Dr. Laura McHale | Website Dr. Laura McHale | LinkedIn Dr. Laura McHale | EmailLaura's Book
Neuroscience for Organizational Communication: A Guide for Communicators and Leaders by Dr. Laura McHale
Timestamped summary for this episode (generated by Capsho, my AI assistant)
00:00:00 - Introduction to the importance of neuroscience in communication
Dan introduces the importance of understanding neuroscience in communication and the impact it has on leadership and organizational success.
00:01:15 - Laura's journey from communicator to psychology doctorate
Laura shares her career journey from being a communicator to pursuing a doctorate in leadership psychology, driven by her fascination with leadership and human behavior.
00:06:39 - Laura's introduction to neuroscience
Laura shares her introduction to neuroscience during her academic journey, where she developed a deep interest in the subject and its application to organizational life and communication.
00:13:14 - Differentiating psychology and neuroscience
Laura explains the relationship between psychology and neuroscience, highlighting how neuroscience focuses on the physiological aspect of behavior, providing a deeper understanding of human communication and interactions.
00:15:27 - Impact of Zoom fatigue on communication
Laura discusses the impact of Zoom fatigue on communication, highlighting the neuroscientific and psychological effects of excessive screen time and self-reflection during virtual interactions.
00:16:19 - The Impact of Zoom on Self-Image and Sociological Effects
Laura discusses how our self-image impacts our focus and how the increase in dentistry and plastic surgery is related to the COVID Zoom epidemic.
00:17:07 - The Physiology of Behavior and Cultural Differences
Laura delves into the physiology of behavior and how it leads to anxiety and stress, especially in different cultural contexts and power dynamics.
00:18:23 - Power Distance and Relatedness in Leadership
The discussion explores the neuroscience behind deference to leaders and how it varies across cultures, emphasizing the importance of relatedness and its impact on the brain.
00:23:00 - Complexity of Constructs in Work
Laura highlights the complexity of constructs in the workplace, such as leader power distance, and the challenges in understanding and measuring them, emphasizing the need to acknowledge this complexity.
00:27:29 - The Pain of Social Exclusion and Impact on Communication
The conversation touches on the pain of social exclusion and its impact on workplace dynamics, emphasizing the importance of understanding and addressing relatedness in communication to avoid potential harm and misinterpretation.
00:33:43 - Inclusive and Exclusive "We"
Laura discusses the use of inclusive and exclusive "we" in language, how it impacts social exclusion in organizations, and how politicians and leaders deploy them.
00:36:15 - Absentee Leadership
Laura delves into absentee leadership, its impact on social exclusion, and the neglectful nature of this behavior in organizations.
00:37:10 - Understanding Absentee Leadership
Laura emphasizes the prevalence of absentee leadership in organizations, its impact on employees, and the need for dialogue between leaders and their teams to address this issue.
00:39:01 - Recognizing Absentee Leadership
Laura shares personal experiences of absentee leadership, the signs to look out for, and the importance of proactive communication and engagement to address this issue.
00:45:50 - Leadership and Communication
Laura highlights the symbiotic relationship between leadership behavior and communication, the significance of words in corporate discourse, and the impact of language on company performance.
00:51:49 - Importance of Authentic Leadership Communication
Dr. Laura McHale discusses the importance of aligning a leader's language with their behavior in order to avoid a disconnect. She emphasizes the need for transparent and direct communication without using negative messages padded with positive messaging.
00:53:10 - Impact of Weak Modal Words in Communication
Dr. McHale points out how weak modal words and weasel words have influenced the acceptance of ambiguous language in communication. She stresses the importance of clear and direct communication, encouraging communicators to use concrete words and active voice.
00:55:38 - Influence of AI on Communication
The conversation shifts to the impact of AI, specifically chat GPT and large language models, on communication. Dr. McHale shares insights on the potential implications and concerns related to using AI to craft messaging, highlighting its ability to generate hate speech and manipulative content.
01:01:10 - Communicators' Superpower in AI Era
Dan Nestle expresses optimism about communicators leveraging their expertise in words and language to harness the potential of AI, particularly in prompt engineering. He emphasizes the importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience in working with AI.
01:05:36 - Cynicism and Optimism in AI Application
The conversation delves into the dual nature of AI as an enabler and a potential manipulative tool. Dr. McHale discusses the need for vigilance in utilizing AI for communication and its potential impact on social cohesion and pro-social behavior. -
….and we’re back! Welcome to the first episode of The Trending Communicator. Dan Nestle reignites the airwaves with an electrifying new episode that will teach you how to think faster and talk smarter with communication expert, Stanford professor, author, and podcaster, Matt Abrahams.
Dan and Matt explore the nuances of effective communication and impromptu speaking. They discuss the importance of mindset, active listening, and structured communication in professional settings. Matt shares practical strategies, such as managing anxiety with academically verified techniques, reframing speaking situations as opportunities, and adopting a growth mindset.
They highlight the use of storytelling and structured frameworks like the Problem-Solution-Benefit method and the hero's journey to craft compelling narratives. The episode also addresses cultural communication differences, the significance of audience-centric approaches, and some thoughts on how AI might affect our approach to impromptu speaking. The conversation provides actionable advice for enhancing communication skills across various contexts.
This riveting conversation isn't just talk; it's a blueprint for revolutionizing your communication skills across every domain.
Listen in and hear…
The importance of effective communication and storytelling Managing anxiety and building confidence in speaking Reframing spontaneous speaking situations as opportunities Mindset shifts for successful impromptu speaking Techniques for adopting a growth mindset Improving listening skills through pace, space, and grace The role of structure and focus in effective communication Using frameworks and structures for impactful communication Challenges of communication in different cultural and professional contexts How AI might affect impromptu speaking Structured approaches to pitching ideasNotable Quotes
[12:27] - “Most people, up to 85% of people, report being anxious in high-stakes situations.” - Matt Abrahams [22:28] - “When something doesn't go the way you want it to, simply say to yourself, 'Not yet.'” - Matt Abrahams [25:46] - “Getting inside your head is such a big one, and I think if people pick up one thing from this, it's to get out of your own way.” - Dan NestleResources & Links
Dan Nestle
The Trending Communicator | Website Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn Dan Nestle | TwitterMatt Abrahams
Matt Abrahams | Website Matt Abrahams | LinkedIn Matt Abrahams | YouTubeMentioned Books
Think Faster, Talk Smarter by Matt Abrahams Speaking Up Without Freaking Out by Matt AbrahamsTimestamped summary of this episode (thanks to Capsho, my AI assistant)
00:00:00 - Introduction and Personal Experience
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and shares his personal experience of using Matt Abrahams' book to improve his communication skills in a workshop.
00:09:20 - The Six-Step Methodology
Matt Abrahams explains the six-step methodology for speaking on the spot, focusing on reducing anxiety and striving for connection over perfection.
00:12:51 - Managing Anxiety
Matt Abrahams discusses the two-pronged approach to managing anxiety - managing symptoms and managing sources. He shares techniques for symptomatic relief, such as deep belly breathing and purposeful movement.
00:13:37 - Overcoming Anxiety in Public Speaking
Matt Abrahams provides tips for overcoming anxiety in public speaking, including purposeful movement and embracing the adrenaline response. He emphasizes the importance of managing anxiety to improve communication effectiveness.
00:13:55 - Overcoming Anxiety and Nervousness
Matt shares techniques to reduce anxiety while speaking, including leaning in, holding something cold, and focusing on audience connection.
00:15:23 - Anxiety Management Plan
Dan shares his anxiety management plan called PITS, and discusses the importance of finding mindset hacks to overcome challenges and setbacks.
00:17:55 - Seeing Opportunities
Matt discusses reframing situations as opportunities rather than threats, and how this mindset shift can benefit communication and collaboration.
00:19:16 - Importance of Listening
Matt emphasizes the importance of active listening to understand the bottom line and respond appropriately, highlighting the impact of deep listening on effective communication and insight.
00:25:31 - Mindset and Next Play
Dan and Matt discuss the significance of mindset in communication, particularly the "not yet" and "next play" approaches to adopt an opportunistic mindset and avoid rumination.
00:27:46 - The Importance of Listening Deeply
Matt Abrahams discusses the impact of not listening deeply and shares a three-step approach to improve listening skills: pace, space, and grace. He emphasizes the need to slow down, create mental space, and give oneself permission to pay attention to not just the words but also the underlying messages.
00:29:52 - The Art of Unspoken Communication
Matt highlights the importance of listening for what's unsaid, referencing a hypothetical scenario where the unspoken message was "I just had a bad time in there." He emphasizes the need to pay attention to non-verbal cues and intuition.
00:33:19 - The Power of Structure in Communication
Matt explains the significance of structuring messages in a logical way for better understanding. He introduces the concept of problem-solution-benefit and emphasizes the need for concise communication to deliver a clear message.
00:36:01 - The Impact of Personal Mindset on Communication
Matt and the host discuss the mindset and personal tendencies that influence communication, such as the tendency to engage in "clock building" by providing unnecessary details. They also touch upon the impact of deference in communication, especially in hierarchical settings.
00:39:13 - The Value of Frameworks in Communication
Matt highlights the benefits of using frameworks in communication, comparing it to having a map that guides the direction of the conversation. He shares a personal experience of using structure to deliver impromptu presentations and emphasizes the relief it brings in
00:41:50 - The Power of Table Topics in Communication
Matt Abrahams discusses the benefits of table topics in improving impromptu speaking skills, drawing on his experience in Toastmasters. He emphasizes the value of being able to respond effectively to questions and situations.
00:43:45 - Importance of Knowing Your Audience
Dan Nestle and Matt Abrahams highlight the significance of knowing one's audience in communication. They stress the need for communicators and marketers to be audience-centric and focused on the needs of their listeners, whether in a formal presentation or informal conversation.
00:46:02 - Practical Applications for Communicators and Marketers
Matt Abrahams discusses the practical applications of communication methodologies for marketers and communicators. He emphasizes the importance of various communication skills, including pitching, small talk, and feedback, in influencing and engaging an audience.
00:48:19 - Structuring a Compelling Pitch
Matt Abrahams shares a four-sentence structure for crafting a powerful pitch, using the example of pitching a whiteboard. He explains how the structure incorporates elements such as a hook, relevance, concreteness, and demonstrating the broad impact of the idea or product.
00:53:00 - Impacts of AI on Impromptu Speaking
Dan Nestle raises the question of whether AI poses a threat to impromptu speaking skills. Matt Abrahams discusses his agnostic yet optimistic view on the potential impact of AI on communication, highlighting both its benefits and concerns.
00:57:00 - Embracing Humanity
Matt encourages embracing human communication over potential future technological implants, urging listeners to prioritize improving their communication skills.
00:57:41 - Repetition, Reflection, and Feedback
Matt emphasizes the importance of repetition, reflection, and feedback in improving spontaneous communication, highlighting the need for practice, self-assessment, and guidance from others.
00:58:19 - Free Resources
Matt directs listeners to his website for free resources and encourages them to check out his book and podcast for further communication improvement.
00:58:56 - Gratitude and Contact Information
Dan expresses gratitude to Matt for joining the show and initiating the next phase, while Matt offers to return and wishes Dan luck. They also provide contact information for further engagement.
00:59:21 - Conclusion and Call to Action
Dan concludes the episode, inviting listeners to subscribe, share, leave a review, and reach out with guest ideas or interest in appearing on the show. -
Discover the surprising transformation of "The Dan Nestle Show" into "The Trending Communicator." Just when you thought you knew what to expect, Dan flips the script, bringing a whole new focus on the power players in PR, communications, and marketing. Get ready to dive deep into the ever-changing world of communications, explore cutting-edge innovations, and unravel the impact of technology on our profession. Join Dan as he uncovers the secrets of information control and the immense responsibility that comes with it. But wait, there's more! Be prepared to meet the movers and shakers who are shaping the future of communications, from AI to neuroscience and beyond. Brace yourself for some mind-blowing insights and captivating discussions. It's a whole new era with "The Trending Communicator." Are you ready to join the conversation? Check back soon for episode one and get ready to be amazed.
Like these notes? You can thank Capsho, my AI podcast notes assistant.
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In this special episode, Dan shares his thoughts on the rapid rise in antisemitism in the weeks after Hamas brutally and barbarically murdered, maimed, raped, and kidnapped innocent Israelis, tourists, and visiting workers in southern Israel on October 7, 2023. These terrorists, on the worst day for Jews since the Holocaust, murdered approximately 1500 innocents, injured thousands more, and took over 200 hostages - including infants, children, elderly, disabled, and ill people from 33 countries. And they recorded all of it.
Despite these atrocities and the incontrovertible evidence of the October 7 pogrom, despite the fact that innocents were deliberately attacked and the Hamas terrorists paraded hostages and dead bodies through the streets of Gaza amidst joyful crowds, despite the fact that Israeli babies were beheaded, despite the fact that Hamas openly calls for the elimination of the State of Israel and explicitly calls on its followers to kill Jews wherever they find them...despite all of this, anti-Israel, pro-Hamas, and - yes - antisemitic groups around the world took less than a day to start rallies, protests, marches, and a PR blitz AGAINST Israel and Jews. These despicable groups - a metastatic cancer that has spread around the world - have denied the atrocities and justified the Hamas attacks under any number of abhorrent ideologies. It wasn't long before synagogues were burning, Jewish property defaced and damaged, Jewish businesses vandalized, and violent incidents targeting Jewish people - including children, students, and the elderly - became a daily occurrence.
This inhumanity, this evil scourge of antisemitism, has deep roots in academia, religion, culture, and history. It has been the lifeblood of those who have persecuted and oppressed Jews for over two millennia. It has led to expulsions, pogroms, and the Holocaust. It has afflicted 15 million people presently living on Earth with an ever-present anxiety and fear of extermination. And now it is undeniably on the rise again, fueling Jew hatred everywhere.
Why, then, is antisemitism ignored and denied? Why is it that our cowardly leaders can't say antisemitism without also invoking Islamophobia and generic hate? Why have CEOs and influencers who were and are so quick to support BLM, Ukraine, the Trans movement, anti-Asian hate, and a multitude of other causes, remained silent? Why have university professors, student groups, and administrators gone completely and utterly mad?
You won't find the answers in this episode. But you will find food for thought and a working definition of antisemitism that is a good place to start. Please listen, absorb, and think about how you can fight antisemitism or, at a bare minimum, see it for what it is.
***
Featured in this episode:
The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) Working Definition of Antisemitism
Special thanks to The Commentary Magazine Podcast's October 23, 2023 episode with Michal Cotler-Wunsh, Israel's special envoy for combatting antisemitism, for inspiring me to do this.
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In this episode, Dan sits down with marketer, author, and two-time resigner turned bonafide career transition master Sara J. McElroy. Sara’s journey looks a lot like the picture of success: academic achievement followed by a steady rise in marketing and ultimately to a CMO role. But in the midst of the Great Resignation, her battles with overwork, toxic workplaces, health crises, and sexual harassment all led to two resignations, a spiritual awakening, personal empowerment, and a mission to help women find their voices and take charge of their careers. Now, as founder and CEO of Raze to Rise, she’s on a mission to “uplift the voices of women from the Great Resignation across diverse walks of life, industries, functions, and career stages” and empower women to “make bold career moves.”
She and Dan cover a lot of ground as Sara challenges conventional, “rational” career choices and argues that emotions, intuition, and physiology have a massive role to play in making life-changing decisions. Here’s a taste of what you’ll learn about through their conversation:
How and when to manage your career. Career management is a mindset and an inside job. The most important times in your career before making the leap. Career transitions can be messy and it’s necessary … the Messcessary. The life experience that prompted a life change. The unlikely gift of Shingles. Getting off the grid can often be the best thing. Most professionals need more than a weekend to plot their next moves. The critical role sexual harassment played in her life choices. Seeing the connections of random events. Forward-thinking themes that came from the pandemic, especially for women. The value of self-discovery and the role it plays in balancing life. We can have a plan, but until we experience it, we don’t know. Missing the senses of when it’s time to move on. How to learn and leverage body signals. The danger of internal capitalism.Notable Quotes:
“The moments of our careers that are most impactful are the ones that are coming in the in-between, not the big moment of turning in the resignation and walking out the door.” (4:26), Sara. “I just had the idea that if I just follow the playbook, that perfect life playbook where you climb the ladder and chase the fancier titles and fatter paychecks, and everything will work out.” – (9:01), Sara. “I went off to Peru and began reconnecting with the parts of me that weren’t just lost over the last couple of years and even childhood.” – (13:01), Sara. “The lather, rinse, repeat of our current lifestyle keeps us really stuck.” – (14:40), Sara. “Valedictorians by in large don’t become leaders.” – (19:44), Dan. “Sexual harassment is not a style.” – (25:22), Sara. “I felt like I could not be the only woman who was getting mired in the spin cycle of being burnout, overwhelm, toxic culture.” – (32:20), Sara. “Designing a fulfilling career is an inside job.” (34:27), Sara. “The expression listen to your gut is more than just a metaphor.” – (36:35), Dan. “Our bodies are hardwired for experience of joy and bliss.” – (42:55), Sara. “We are built to move through all of the things we’re facing in life through our senses.” – (45:19), Sara. “In a professional world, you’re kind of like a brain, floating around in an apparatus that allows you to execute what you need to do.” – (50:40), Sara. “We have been taught to ignore the signs that things are not working for us.” – (51:27), Sara. “Disease is the last attempt to get our attention when we’re doing things that are not good for us.”- (51:27), Sara. “We have the ability to feel into what we think is good.” – (54:44), Sara. “It’s also important to meditate.” (1:01:08), Sara. “When consequences are larger and bigger and weighs on you, you really need to tune in and listen.” – (1:07:00), Dan. “Sometimes your employer is unable to give you what you need to grow.” – (1:10:00), Dan.About Dan Nestle
The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com) Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook Dan Nestle | TwitterAbout Sara McElroy
Sara McElroy - Instagram Sara McElroy - Linkedin Raze to Rise – Website
The key moments in this episode (as generated by my AI buddy, Capsho) are:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:02:01 - Sarah's Career Journey and the Importance of the In-Between Moments
00:07:52 - Sarah's First Resignation and the Need for a Reset
00:12:47 - The Great Resignation and Finding Resilience
00:15:20 - The Impact of Divorce and Mental Health Issues,
00:18:07 - The Pressure of Being a Valedictorian,
00:22:51 - The Lack of a Life Roadmap,
00:25:26 - Resignation and Self-Reflection,
00:28:45 - The Journey of Personal Growth,
00:30:49 - The Journey Begins,
00:33:27 - The Power of Women's Stories,
00:35:17 - Designing a Fulfilling Career,
00:39:37 - The Unforeseen Path,
00:43:35 - The Role of Physiology,
00:47:29 - The Importance of Sensory Reactions,
00:49:10 - The Impact of Lack of Sensory Information,
00:50:59 - Ignoring Emotional and Physical Signs,
00:53:30 - Recognizing Signals and Taking Action,
00:58:15 - Using Visualization and Body Reactions,
01:02:51 - The Impact of a Job on Relationships,
01:03:30 - Measuring Readiness to Leave a Job,
01:04:58 - Balancing Rationality and Emotion in Career Decisions,
01:06:07 - Expanding and Growing Outside of Work,
01:10:30 - The Individualized Nature of Career Paths,
01:18:36 - The Impact of Self-Objectification and Internalized Capitalism,
01:19:06 - The Historical Origins of Work Culture,
01:20:25 - Challenges for Women in the Business World,
01:21:23 - Overcoming Biases and Empowering Women,
01:23:12 - Keeping an Open Mind and Trusting Yourself
Timestamped summary of this episode (also presented as generated by Capsho):
00:00:00 - Introduction to the Dan Nestle Show
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast episode and his guest, Sarah McElroy, who is a high-performing chief marketing officer turned CEO and career transition expert. They discuss the importance of managing one's career and the power of the in-between moments in career transitions.
00:02:01 - Sarah's Career Journey and the Importance of the In-Between Moments
Sarah McElroy shares her personal career journey, including a difficult divorce, job loss, and health issues. She emphasizes the significance of the in-between moments in one's career and how they can shape the direction and decisions for the future.
00:07:52 - Sarah's First Resignation and the Need for a Reset
Sarah talks about her first resignation and how it came after experiencing physical and mental health issues due to overworking. She decided to take a pause and went on a wellness retreat in Peru to reconnect with herself. This reset led her to make significant changes in her career and personal life.
00:12:47 - The Great Resignation and Finding Resilience
Sarah discusses the concept of the Great Resignation and how it has impacted many people's career decisions. She emphasizes the importance of finding resilience during challenging times and shares her own experience of quitting her job after being diagnosed with shingles. This decision allowed her to prioritize her well-being and seek a more fulfilling career path.
00:15:20 - The Impact of Divorce and Mental Health Issues,
Sara discusses how her divorce, mental health issues, and childhood trauma affected her. She shares her hospitalization and estrangement from her family, leading to feelings of worthlessness and a need to prove her value.
00:18:07 - The Pressure of Being a Valedictorian,
Sara and Dan discuss how being valedictorian can create pressure and expectations. They explore the idea that valedictorians often become followers rather than leaders, as they excel at working within a structured system.
00:22:51 - The Lack of a Life Roadmap,
Sara and Dan reflect on how the traditional notion of a life roadmap no longer applies in today's ever-changing world. They discuss the challenges faced by recent generations in navigating their careers and finding their paths.
00:25:26 - Resignation and Self-Reflection,
Sara shares her experience of resigning from her second job due to sexual harassment and feeling undervalued. She discusses how these experiences pushed her to leave corporate life and become an entrepreneur. She also recognizes her own role in choosing these environments and the need for self-reflection and healing.
00:28:45 - The Journey of Personal Growth,
Sara and Dan emphasize the value of personal growth and therapy in understanding oneself and making better choices. They discuss the importance of embracing the past and learning from experiences to shape a fulfilling career and life.
00:30:49 - The Journey Begins,
Sara reflects on her decision to leave a terrible job and the inspiration it sparked to help other women facing burnout and toxic cultures. She starts a journalism project called Raised to Rise to capture the stories and wisdom of women experiencing the great resignation.
00:33:27 - The Power of Women's Stories,
Sara realizes the universality of women's experiences during the great resignation and decides to turn Raised to Rise into a book. She wants to share the raw, messy, and inspiring stories of women to create a playbook for designing a fulfilling career.
00:35:17 - Designing a Fulfilling Career,
Sara believes that designing a fulfilling career is an inside job. Rather than solely relying on external factors like job title and salary, she emphasizes the importance of self-discovery, intuition, and listening to our physiology to find greater fulfillment in our work.
00:39:37 - The Unforeseen Path,
Sara shares how her book took an unexpected turn, allowing her to incorporate more of the ups and downs and unexpected twists of her own journey. She believes that embracing the unexpected and staying true to oneself is essential when navigating career transitions.
00:43:35 - The Role of Physiology,
Sara explores the role of physiology in decision-making and career choices. She discusses the body's response to emotions and the importance of listening to our gut and heart, which are often overlooked in favor of the rational brain. Our bodies have evolved to seek joy and fulfillment, making
00:47:29 - The Importance of Sensory Reactions,
Sarah discusses how sensory reactions play a role in our conversations and decision-making. She mentions that although we may not have all of our senses when communicating virtually, we can still pick up on cues and signals through what we hear and see.
00:49:10 - The Impact of Lack of Sensory Information,
Sarah acknowledges that the lack of sensory information in virtual communication may affect our ability to recognize when it's time to make a change. She emphasizes the importance of paying attention to our emotions, body, and intuition to determine if something is not working for us.
00:50:59 - Ignoring Emotional and Physical Signs,
Sarah points out that we have been trained to leave our emotions and bodies at the door in the professional world. She believes that ignoring these signs can lead to disease and that we should listen to our emotions, body, and intuition for cues about what is and isn't working for us.
00:53:30 - Recognizing Signals and Taking Action,
Sarah shares her personal experiences of feeling a "scary buzz" and a mixture of anxiety and excitement when she knows she needs to take action. She encourages listeners to pay attention to their own body's signals and use them as a guide for making decisions.
00:58:15 - Using Visualization and Body Reactions,
Sarah suggests a practice of visualizing oneself in different situations and paying attention to the body's reactions. By connecting visualization to our bodies, we can determine what
01:02:51 - The Impact of a Job on Relationships,
Sara reflects on how her job affected her relationships in Australia and acknowledges that some of those relationships may not have been good for her in the first place.
01:03:30 - Measuring Readiness to Leave a Job,
Sara discusses her quit readiness quiz, which helps individuals assess their readiness to leave a job. Factors such as stability in other aspects of life, length of dissatisfaction, comfort with uncertainty, and financial stability are considered.
01:04:58 - Balancing Rationality and Emotion in Career Decisions,
Sara emphasizes the importance of not acting blindly on emotions when making career decisions. She suggests considering both rational and emotional factors, and taking a balanced approach that includes planning and thoughtful decision-making.
01:06:07 - Expanding and Growing Outside of Work,
Dan and Sara discuss the importance of personal growth and expansion, both within and outside of work. They highlight the need to listen to the signals of growth, such as feeling stuck or the desire to stretch and evolve, and finding opportunities to fulfill that growth.
01:10:30 - The Individualized Nature of Career Paths,
Sara emphasizes that there is no one-size-fits-all playbook for career decisions. Each person's journey is unique, and it's important to explore different paths and opportunities for growth, even if they may not directly align with one's current career. The focus is on individualized fulfillment and finding joy and meaning in various aspects of life.
01:18:36 - The Impact of Self-Objectification and Internalized Capitalism,
The guest discusses the harmful effects of self-objectification and internalized capitalism on individuals. She emphasizes how these societal pressures lead people to believe that their worth is tied to productivity and achieving success in their careers.
01:19:06 - The Historical Origins of Work Culture,
The conversation delves into the historical roots of work culture, tracing it back to the Industrial Revolution when humans were seen as resources to be valued based on their economic output. This mindset still persists and influences how we view work and ourselves today.
01:20:25 - Challenges for Women in the Business World,
The guest acknowledges that women face additional challenges in the business world, such as being judged based on their marital status and motherhood. Despite progress, biases and stereotypes still persist, making it important to address these issues for future generations.
01:21:23 - Overcoming Biases and Empowering Women,
The guest expresses her desire to empower her daughters and future generations of women by challenging societal biases and stereotypes. She metaphorically refers to carrying a "flamethrower" to burn down these biases and create a more equal and equitable society.
01:23:12 - Keeping an Open Mind and Trusting Yourself,
The guest encourages listeners to approach unconventional ideas with an open mind, acknowledging that scientific advancements have often debunked previously perceived "mystical" beliefs. She emphasizes the importance of curiosity, self-discovery*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.
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