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Treatment providers spend significant amounts of time having vulnerable conversations with people but rarely share their own stories. On this final episode of the first season of “Rethinking Rock Bottom”, hosts Dr. Carrie Wilkens and Reverend Jan M. Brown take the opportunity to share their own experiences and some of the personal reasons that they are so passionate about helping families heal. They each navigated very different paths that led to their work of helping people heal, and their deeply personal reasons keep them both motivated to do this important work. Together they each share their journey to CMC:Foundation for Change, the struggles and realizations they encountered along the way, and how hope has led them to serving and supporting others as they navigate their own paths toward healing.
“We are hopeful every day and are rewarded by seeing the people we work with make small daily changes and over time, deeply meaningful life changes.”
[:00] Carrie and Jan take the opportunity of the final episode of season one to share the paths that led each of them to their work at Foundation for Change. [1:52] Growing up in rural Kansas, Carrie was a novelty-seeking, risk-taking kid whose binge drinking led to compulsive behaviors with food. [5:14] Bulimia became Carrie’s coping mechanism in college, and even therapy didn’t entirely help her address and heal from her behavior. [7:05] Jan’s story of treatment and change involves more systems, substances, and countries, and started at a very young age. [9:46] By the time she was in high school, Jan was reliant on alcohol but didn’t fully understand the role substances were playing in her coping strategies. [11:30] As a cadet at West Point, Jan had no other choice but to face her reliance on alcohol. [14:02] “I didn't want to die” — after falling down the stairs, Jan was ready to begin her journey to change for good. [15:46] What causes people to seek change is different for each person, which means patience is essential as people explore what kind of support works best for them. [17:05] Jan’s approach to sobriety was slow and defiant, but the learning process helped her recognize what she didn’t want for her life. [21:00] The treatment center staff encouraged Jan’s change in behavior and helped her know that she was, eventually, going to be okay. [22:58] Sustaining behavior change requires ongoing support after treatment is ‘complete’. [23:33] The CRAFT model highlights the importance of utilizing families as an asset in a clinical setting. [25:30] Jan’s criticism of AA led her to start Spirit Works and eventually join with the Invitation to Change and Beyond Addiction. [31:52] Recognizing the untapped potential of families and communities transformed Carrie’s work as a clinician. [35:25] Compassion for both the people who are using and their families is what drives this podcast and the work that Jan and Carrie do. [37:20] Jan reflects on her spiritual journey and the privilege of working with families who love each other so fiercely. [39:24] The hope that Carrie and Jan each feel as treatment providers who help families heal.Additional Resources:
CMC: Foundation For Change Beyond Addiction Workbook: https://beyondaddictionworkbook.com/ Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People ChangeTweetables:
“All that I would've said to you about my younger years was that I had a great time. In hindsight, I think, wow, there was a lot wrong about what was going on.” — Carrie “Everything looked okay on the outside, but on the inside I was pretty jumbled up.” — Carrie “I didn't know how to manage my feelings… so I would drink or I would use drugs or I would behave badly, and that would mean that I wouldn't have to feel and process things that I had no idea how to do.” — Jan “29 years into a marriage, my husband still has to remind me to ask for help. I think it's a lifelong journey for some of us, right?” — Carrie “I wasn't moving towards anything really, because I had nothing. But I knew what I didn't want.” — Jan “If you're only working with the person with a problem, you are missing so much information.” — Carrie “Your loved one may never seek treatment. In fact, most people don't. And they can still get better and your family can get better.” — Carrie “You can't shave off the pain and expect to only find happiness. You actually have to have the whole arc.” — Carrie “I will go to Hell and back with you. All I ask that you do is to show up.” — Jan “It may not look like you think it's going to look when you start the journey and you may have to be very patient for it to happen, but things will get better.” — Carrie -
“When we start attending to our wounds, our need to self-medicate the pain lessens, and the healing can finally begin.”
On this episode, we talk with Dr. Felecia Pullen, the founder, President, and CEO of Pillars and Let’s Talk SAFETY, Inc. In her life and work, Felecia encourages a view of substance use that acknowledges its complex realities, with overlapping lenses of race, class, culture, and systemic injustice. This conversation highlights the challenges people of color face in treatment and brings to light the very real and painful impact of systemic racism and generational trauma. Race continues to be a blind spot in the treatment community, but acknowledging these issues is essential for effectively treating communities of color.
[1:37] Despite the challenges of systemic racism, a community like Harlem is worth much more than a drug epidemic. [4:35] As substance abuse flooded the streets of Harlem, Felecia learned to navigate her city with love and understanding. [7:25] With substances interwoven into her everyday life, Felecia struggled to remember her own ‘firsts’ with using drugs. [9:05] The intersectionality of being a successful career woman of color navigating the corporate environment. [11:25] To cope with her inner conflict, Felecia turned to substances and increasingly struggled to keep her two worlds in balance. [14:00] “You don’t smile anymore.” The game-changing point when Felecia realized that she wasn’t hiding her drug usage from anyone. [15:20] Felecia’s dangerous and self-destructive behaviors, in her mind, were the solution to a major trauma problem. [17:55] The wrestle between seeking treatment and remaining dependent on substances. [19:30] The absence of recovery options in Harlem made leaving her home essential to Felecia’s successful recovery journey. [21:08] Traditional practices that are rebranded as alternative practices divorce a community from their own modes of healing. [23:45] In black and brown communities, the heroin crisis was treated as a crime. In white communities, it was treated as an epidemic worthy of funding. [25:50] After treatment, Felecia was eager to address race blindspots in Harlem and to expand her education in order to support her new calling. [27:10] The ITC program encourages self-compassion, which Felecia admits she still struggles with. She shares what is allowing her to practice self-kindness. [29:45] Trauma is exhausting, layered and shapeshifting, as Felecia recognizes in her own community. [31:15] Bringing positive, non-prescriptiving treatment options into Harlem. [32:00] Felecia’s continued efforts to quiet the voices in her head and support her own on-going healing. [33:34] The love and wisdom that Felecia has gained in her own journey.Additional Resources:
Dr. Pullen CMC: Foundation For Change SpiritWorks Foundation Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change Rest is Resistance by Tricia Hersey;Tweetables:
“That trauma that I grew up in as a child, all of that impacted my behavior and my need for time and the voices and the noises to stop.” — Felecia “I don’t remember there ever being a time that substances weren’t in my life.” — Felecia “My ability, desire and willingness to come back to the community that raised me is the definition of success that I’m going to hang my hat on.” — Felecia “I wanted to be a great mom, and I didn’t understand the impact of my drug use… How do you reconcile this duality and… pick all of those little pieces apart and put them together into a picture that you can actually look in the mirror and say, ‘Ok, I like her’.?” — Felecia “I need us to empower one another to understand how we come to the table with strengths and knowledge and fortitude that is often robbed of us as a people and given over to others.” — Felecia “The self-compassion comes forth in accepting my shortcomings and going, okay, what's the learning moment from this? And I can show it to other people. That doesn't mean that I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not worthy enough. It just means that I'm human.” — Felecia “When I changed the voices that were around me, I changed the way that I thought about me.” — Felecia “There are all of these ways that recovery can be measured without the definition of abstinence.” — Felecia “I need people to open their lens so that they can see the possibilities of recovery for the people that are in their circle, in their community, in their family, in themselves.” — Felecia -
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This episode we speak with Dave and Tina, parents whose son, Craig, struggled with his mental health from a young age. As he got older, substances entered the picture as well. When Dave and Tina tried to help, they found themselves ping-ponging between worlds. Addiction providers told them that their son needed mental health support, while the mental health programs said he needed to treat his substance use issues first. All of this left Dave and Tina floundering as they desperately tried to help their son.Dave and Tina eventually found a different approach (a combination of CRAFT and the ITC) which helped them learn communication skills and positive reinforcement strategies to help their son and keep their family connected.
“We can't climb inside their heads and take over the controls and steer them away from their drugs, but we can be the reason they choose recovery.”
[2:06] Dave and Tina’s 43 years together began with a cancer battle, infertility treatments, and the adoption of their two sons Craig and Sean. [4:02] Early signs that Craig's development wasn’t progressing like other children. [7:15] It was Craig’s girlfriend who first alerted Dave and Tina to his substance abuse. [8:10] The impact of complex co-occurring issues on the entire family. [9:50] A lack of support from the school compounded Dave and Tina’s struggles. [10:53] Each family member will have their own reaction to a loved one’s addiction problems. [12:20] The 5-Step Model helps families understand how they can support and meet their loved ones where they currently are, rather than where they are. [14:15] “Things got worse before they got better.” [16:40] Dave found what he needed in support groups, but neither Tina nor Dave knew how to communicate their struggles at work. [21:02] After being diagnosed with autism, Craig’s behaviors slowly began to stabilize. [23:55] The point when increased self-awareness and communication skills allowed natural consequences to also play a part in Craig’s recovery. [25:22] CRAFT and the Invitation to Change are designed to help teach communication skills and reinforcement strategies that help everyone involved. [29:13] The positive influence that Dave and Tina have had on Craig has allowed him to problem-solve on his own and support other people in his life. [32:46] The importance of trust in healing a broken relationship. [34:20] Dave and Tina’s son Sean has experienced his own strides in growth over the years. [36:10] Tactics that Dave and Tina have learned to support each other. [38:30] Advice from parents who have navigated through years of turmoil in a mental health crisis.Additional Resources:
Dave and Tina’s Support Groups: https://www.alternat-i-ves.org/index.html CMC: Foundation For Change Beyond Addiction Workbook Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change Invitation to Change: A Short Guide SpiritWorks Foundation National Autistic Society Support for Families with Autistic ChildTweetables:
“It’s no rock bottom for the family members. It’s a constant rollercoaster ride.” — Dave “It was almost like he was a pressure cooker waiting to go off, and until that steam had gone, he just couldn't cope with his frustration and anger.” — Tina “When you know you're doing the right thing and people put seeds of doubt in your mind, you start to think, ‘Am I doing the right thing?’” — Tina “I realized that it didn't actually matter what the drug of choice was. Alcohol, gambling, heroin. The family's going through exactly the same.” — Dave “Sometimes you, some of those natural consequences really do work and you don't really know which one's going to work. You just have to try things.” — Dave “I'm gonna be the best dad I can possibly be for him. And if I have to learn some tools about it to get there, then I will learn those tools.” — Dave “I've never wanted him to say sorry. I’ve just always wanted to see him get better and get healthy.” — Tina “It's important to be together, supporting each other as well as giving each other a little bit of space and encouraging you to do things for yourselves as well.” — Tina “I don't need to know all of the answers to these problems and that’s been really helpful.” — Dave “There needs to be more family support so that when people leave recovery, their families are on their side.” — Dave -
Warning: This episodes discusses the loss of a child due to a substance related death.
When Becky’s daughter Katie began struggling with substances, Becky was repeatedly told by friends, family and professionals to disconnect and let her hit rock bottom. Scared and confused, Becky reluctantly agreed, despite how painful and unnatural it felt. She eventually changed tactics and began rebuilding a relationship with Katie. And though Katie ultimately lost her life to substances, Becky’s choice gave them both a chance to reconnect.
On this episode of “Rethinking Rock Bottom,” Becky shares with us how being connected to others allowed her to persist in connecting with her daughter, how she allowed herself to love herself and her daughter in spite of so much heartache, and how her connection with Katie lives on even through Katie’s passing.
“Nothing may take away one’s grief, as it is hoped nothing can take away one’s love.”
[:36] Mother Becky recalls the light and life that Katie brought into the world and the changes that first indicated trouble. [5:17] “She left us and I couldn’t do anything” — Becky’s fight for her adult daughter’s safety. [10:15] The turning point in Becky’s attempt to stay connected to her daughter. [12:26] The power of connecting with people who have shared experiences with the help of CRAFT. [14:56] The compounded emotional struggle of staying connected while navigating the treatment system. [17:00] What Becky learned about self compassion for herself through the transformative process of helping Katie. [21:00] Becky recalls the final days of Katie’s life. [24:33] The support Becky found through her willingness to learn from SpiritWorks and ITC training. [26:48] Becky’s advice for parents who are ready to stay connected and keep moving forward. [29:39] The compassionate and encouraging words of advice that Becky would offer to her early-journey self. [32:25] Becky’s encouragement for listeners who are considering the ITC program. [33:46] The ITC program offers skills and support that can effectively and lovingly reach a loved one rather than push them away.Additional Resources:
CMC: Foundation For Change SpiritWorks Foundation Beyond Addiction Workbook: Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change Grief Recovery After Substance Passing (GRASP) A healing community offering understanding compassion and support to those who have lost a loved one to substance use.Tweetables:
“I often thought, if I can just get her to see me, I can fix this. I didn’t realize the substance had taken the place of me.” — Becky “Even before I knew what rock bottom truly was, it wasn’t someplace I wanted her to be.” — Becky “There is power in connecting with other people who have shared experiences because there is so much shame and stigma that comes with having a loved one struggle with substance use.” — Jan “You’re never going to be the person you were before. You’ve got to accept that there’s going to be a change.” — Becky “Life is going to be different, and there is still joy in this world.” — Becky “If Becky had detached or waited for Katie to hit rock bottom before she engaged with her, she would have missed out on these healing moments.” — Jan -
Watching a loved one struggle with substances is always confusing and painful, but from the perspective of a sibling, it can be particularly hard to understand. Even though siblings often notice the substance use before the rest of the family, as peers, they lack the tools and perspective to fully recognize what’s happening, and including parents can feel like a betrayal. On this episode of “Rethinking Rock Bottom”, hosts Dr. Carrie Wilkens and Reverend Jan M. Brown welcome Meg and Stephen, siblings who were very close and then grew apart as substance use played an increasingly complicated role in their relationship. Together they highlight the struggles of Stephen’s substance misuse, the secrets and burdens that Meg felt that she had to carry alone, and why she, as a sibling, did not fully understand or appreciate her role in Stephen’s healing journey. Sibling dynamics are complicated, to begin with, and substance use disorder tends to amplify underlying tensions. The damage can take years to repair, long after the substances are gone, but together Stephen and Meg share the hope they have found in their relationship as they have each healed.
“Sibling relationships are so important within a family, especially during a crisis. Together we heal.”
[:30] Siblings Stephen and Meg were constants in each other’s childhood despite multiple international moves and the introduction of substance use. [4:29] A picture-perfect childhood coupled with bouts of anxiety and depression were complicated by early access to alcohol. [7:44] Substance misuse warning signs in adolescence can be hard to spot amidst normal teenage experimentation, but Stephen recognized his own problems early on. [9:00] The college party scene led Stephen to drink and experiment with hallucinogens until a tragedy turned his substance use into self-medication. [12:59] Despite a precarious balancing act of substance use, Stephen’s professional life wasn’t slowing down at all. [14:20] The point when Meg realized that Stephen was using heavily and had grown more paranoid as a result. [15:42] In the Invitation to Change approach, ambivalence is normal and can come in many forms depending on the family context. [16:40] Stephen’s graduation experience was a turning point in the family’s awareness of his drug use. [21:06] Meg reflects on the state of Stephen’s apartment and how she felt once she started sharing her feelings with their mom. [23:04] In rehab, some elements of the healing process caused more harm than good for the entire family. [26:12] When Meg finally needed Stephen’s support, he wasn’t there for her because he was too deep in post-acute withdrawal. [30:00] Rebuilding a broken sibling relationship started when Stephen realized that his using and healing affected more than just him. [33:39] Being “done with it” is a completely normal part of the sibling experience of substance use disorder. [35:16] Stephen’s hope for the siblings who are facing the same challenges as he put Meg through, and her hope for siblings who are ready to repair broken relationships.Additional Resources:
CMC: Foundation For Change Beyond Addiction Workbook: https://beyondaddictionworkbook.com/ Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change Massachusetts Overdose Prevention HelplineTweetables:
“I think the closer you are, the more complicated relationships can get.” — Meg “We have quite a bit of alcohol use in our family so I recognized early warning signs that I needed to slow down.” — Stephen “I tried to stay strong for people, instead of actually experiencing the grief myself, and processing it, and crying. Instead, I just repressed it with more drinking and just trying to avoid dealing with the problem.” — Stephen “There's plenty of ways you can explain away behavior, and I was a pro at explaining away behavior.” — Stephen “At that point, there were no more secrets. I felt much worse when I was keeping secrets.” — Meg “I felt like I was not forgotten. I was feeling consistent and helpful and like I'm showing up to rehab and then I was given this label and then as things unfolded after that that was what was in my head.” — Meg “I didn't realize Megan was mad at me for the three years that she was mad at me. Because I was so not self-aware and so self-absorbed.” — Stephen “I would like parents to know that the sibling is going through something as difficult, if not worse, and just as difficult as the parents are going through and they're going through it in a very different time in their lives, in a time of growth and a time when they're meant to be still focused on themselves.” — Meg “A sibling is in a unique position to be able to offer that viewpoint without criticizing somebody's use directly.” — Stephen -
Far more effective than shaming and blaming, a willingness to remain open and supportive has the power to strengthen relationships with loved ones who are on the road to recovery from substances. But that is only possible when you are willing to create a space for your own transformation as you support others. On this episode of “Rethinking Rock Bottom”, hosts psychologist Carrie Wilkens and Reverend Jan M. Brown learn from Julie, a mother who learned that her son’s anxiety, shame, and pain were hidden motivators that she was unknowingly contributing to. After discovering the Invitation To Change, Julie learned how to create a space for her own increased self-awareness. She was then able to improve communication by asking open-ended questions that encouraged connection instead of conflict. In turn, he was able to be more open about his struggles which allowed her to help him while experiencing her own transformation on their journey to positive change.
“Make friends with all of the feelings of this long journey.”
[:30] Mother Julie reflects on her ‘easy kid’ and the early days of Jake’s recovery journey. [5:07] The turning point at which Julie knew that Jake needed professional help, and what she discovered as a result. [7:00] As a couple, Julie and her husband were united in dealing with their son’s frightening behavior. [9:21] In residential treatment, Jake opened up about the root of his issues and the extent of his drug use. [10:50] The lack of an aftercare plan set Jake and his parents up for additional struggles once in-patient treatment ended. [13:58] Shaming did nothing to help with Jake’s healing and recovery. [15:00] “I started educating myself because I knew what we had done wasn’t working.” [17:33] In Jake’s mind, his anxiety struggle, drug usage, and defiance all made sense. [20:00] As Julie offered Jake increased support, they both reached a breakthrough. [22:13] Despite relapsing, Jake responded positively to his mother’s increased compassion. [26:35] Keeping an open mind and reframing concerns is key to strengthening relationships. [30:00] Self-awareness and self-kindness are essential in supporting your own growth. [31:45] The value of sitting with discomfort and encouraging openness from your loved one. [34:05] Julie shares her ideas for encouraging alternatives and finding ways for Jake to cope. [38:00] Making friends with her feelings gave Julie the space to transform alongside her son. [39:00] The practices that allow Julie to find meaning in what matters most. [39:40] Julie offers hope for listeners as they face the long journey of recovery. [41:45] The ITC program offers skills and support that can effectively and lovingly reach a loved one through increased learning and openness.Additional Resources:
The Opposite of Addiction by Julie Merberg (Learn more about Julie through her substack!) CMC: Foundation For Change SpiritWorks Foundation The Beyond Addition Workbook for Family and Friends Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People ChangeTweetables:
“Looking back on it, I wish someone had said to me, you are at the beginning of a really long journey. Do not expect to get your kid out of six weeks of rehab and have everything tied up with a ribbon.” — Julie “At that point, he started transforming into this person that I didn’t recognize… I felt like I had no idea who he really was anymore.” — Julie “The stricter we became with rules and the more judgmental and critical, and the more we tried to rein him in, the more he rebelled and really the angrier he became.” — Julie “Change takes time and setbacks are bound to happen, even while progress is being made.” — Jan “In my own mind, I’ve shifted and I understand that discomfort is growth.” — Julie “If I know what’s going on, there’s a shot at making things better. If he’s hiding somewhere, something, there’s nothing I can do.” — Julie -
Welcome To Rethinking Rock Bottom
