Avsnitt
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Tonight once again we are immersed in the struggle for purity of heart and the avoidance of its opposite in action, fornication. We are presented, of course, with heroic examples of those who embodied this virtue. Yet the most powerful thing that stands out both in the examples and the writings of the fathers is their understanding of Eros being conquered by Divine Eros; that is, our attachment to the things of this world and are very selves overcome by a greater love - the love of God for us.
When we begin to see and taste this love within our day-to-day life, and when we experience a greater measure of freedom through the ascetic life, that Divine love begins to grow within us and we find ourselves running with a swiftness aided by the grace of God.
Love is always the more powerful motivator and there is nothing more powerful than to experience the love of the one who created us in His own image and likeness. He alone can satisfy the deepest longings of the human heart. Once we begin to let go of the illusion that this world places before us - the illusion that it can provide for all of us are pleasures; and once the grace of God begins also to purify the memory, we begin to experience the invincible joy, peace, and humility of the kingdom.
As long as we are in this world, we all always find ourselves embattled. Therefore, the fathers tell us to cry out like David in the psalms: “Deliver me, O my joy, from them that have compassed me about.“ At that moment, we will always find ourselves in the hands of the living God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Happy Birthday Joshua 00:21:38 Anthony: Sounds like St Augustine in City of God regarding virgins who jumped off buildings for fear of rape by Vandals. 00:22:33 Anthony: Maria goretti 00:32:00 Myles Davidson: Committing oneself to an Adoration time outside of normal sleep time can be a great way to get used to combatting the need to sleep. 00:45:12 Wayne: Its interesting that the protestant tradition don't have the crucified Christ on the cross. There is focus on the resurrection but forget about Good Friday. 00:55:26 Forrest Cavalier: Some terms I have come across to describe the non-sacrificial, non-repentance approach to Christianity are "Moralistic therapeutic deism" and "cheap grace" 00:59:04 Rebecca Thérèse: If John Lennon's "Imagine" came true that would be world communism. 01:07:45 Anthony: Also, iconographers and musicians and poets who give us a vision to hope for. Something that reaches us outside of reason for an irrational world. 01:14:29 Anna Lalonde: I do vigils, it's grown through desert Father's training me. 01:14:40 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I do vigils, it's gr..." with 👍 01:14:48 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "I do vigils, it's gr..." with 👍 01:15:00 Erick Chastain: Reacted to I do vigils, it's gr... with "👍" 01:16:11 Myles Davidson: I’ve taken to sometimes when I wake in the middle of the night, getting up for an hour of praying the Jesus Prayer, then going back to sleep. The stillness of the night and the mind make it very special 01:16:36 Wayne: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti..." with 👍 01:16:46 Lee Graham: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti…" with 👍 01:17:24 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I’ve taken to someti..." with 👍 01:18:45 Anna Lalonde: I'm a spiritual director of Latin and East and a Catholic Coach. 01:20:48 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You to Father and all who are here 01:20:51 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:20:56 Santiago Búa: Thank you Father 01:20:56 Macarena Olsen: Thank you! 01:20:57 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:21:13 Jacqulyn: Reacted to "Thank You to Father ..." with ❤️ 01:21:21 Erick Chastain: Thank you!! 01:21:48 Francisco Ingham: Thank you Father!! -
Saknas det avsnitt?
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What do we live for? Or rather, better stated, Who do we live for? As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent, St. John speaks to us about the nature of Divine Love that is our destiny and dignity in Christ. We pursue the spiritual life for no abstract reason - not for moral perfection - not to satisfy a sense of religious duty. Nor are we driven by fear or anxiety as has sadly so often been the case.
It has always been Love that beckons us forward, that gradually heals the wounds of our sin or the traumas that we have borne. Anything that obstructs our vision of love and the mercy, God desires to overcome. God has created us for himself, made us in his own image and likeness precisely that we might share in the fullness of his life. The nature of love is curative not punitive.
St. John begins by speaking of those who keep in their imagination the face of the beloved and embrace it tenderly. This love often is so strong that it strips them even of the need for sleep or for food. The one who yearns for God says: “My soul thirsts for God, the mighty, the living God. The grace of this reality transforms nature to the point that even their countenance changes and is filled with the joy and the peace of the kingdom.
Furthermore, the pure of heart, the one who loves without impediment, is the truth theologian and so grasp the very nature of the most holy trinity. Their heart transformed by love shows itself in their love of neighbor, their intolerance for slander or anything that might diminish the other.
St. John also tells us that the power of love is in hope because by it we await the reward of love. Even when we cannot see, when we find ourselves wrapped in the darkness of the cross that we carry, it is in hope that we find rest and the reassurance of God‘s love for us .
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Text of chat during the group:
00:14:33 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 245, # 16 00:27:24 Jeff O.: Seems like Psalm 1, Jeremiah 17, the river of life flowing in and through us producing within us fruit no matter what 00:30:04 Anna Lalonde: Is that the fear of reverence and awe of God? 00:31:17 Cindy Moran: I remember in a worldly being a love sick teenager and could care less about eating 00:32:30 David: Are there different levels of fear? I remember when I was a child my sister and I used to say the worst punishment was seeing disappointment from our mother and father not any correction. I sometimes feel more like this than trying to reconcile a loving God who has done so much and fire and brimstrone. 00:34:48 Myles Davidson: I love St. Isaacs view of hell as the love of God that is painful to those who have rejected Him 00:43:17 David: I love the mass no matter what but I often find homilies downloaded from sites which feel detached, not from the heart. I find the priest who speak of personal experience or their struggles capture the parish more. It seems there are administrators and holy men but they are often not in balance. 00:47:57 Jeff O.: St. Maximos’s “Questions 17-19” are great examples of examining the inner meaning of Scripture’s ‘enigmas’ with the fear of God (as he says). A higher reading, deeper reading - a mystical engagement with the Spirit that brings out the beautiful truths. He works out Exodus 4 with Moses and the angel threatening death into a beautiful way of describing the spiritual journey 00:48:54 Rebecca Therese: I heard someone say once that hell is a mercy for those who feel tortured by the vision of God. 00:50:19 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "I heard someone say ..." with 🙏🏼 00:53:26 Francisco Ingham: We need less news and more nous 00:53:37 David: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍 00:53:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 👍 00:54:01 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "We need less news an..." with 😂 01:02:20 Anna Lalonde: I call that domestic monastic as we do 01:12:15 Nick Bodmer: Wow, that's amazing, Fr. ! 01:12:38 Serene Lai: How can we increase our hope? 01:14:49 Nypaver Clan: They instantly become little saints! 01:16:58 Myles Davidson: Fr’s Substack:https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:17:42 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing to Charbel please. 01:17:42 Art: Reacted to "Fr’s Substack:https..." with 👍 01:18:27 Rebecca Therese: Thank you🙂 01:18:33 David: Thank you father! May God bless you!🙏 01:18:34 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:18:34 Jeff O.: Thank you!! Great to be with you all! 01:18:44 Nick Bodmer: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏" 01:18:52 Nick Bodmer: Thank you! 01:19:01 Anna Lalonde: Reacted to Prayers for my heali... with "🙏" -
Why is it that we engage in the ascetic life and the spiritual life as a whole? How is it that we come to understand the extreme practices of the desert fathers as they entered into the struggle with the passions? Seemingly they were willing to do almost anything to overcome temptation and to suffer extreme disciplines, punishing the body, until the passions were overcome.Again, we must understand that the desert was a laboratory. The fathers were driven there by their desire to live for God and to live for Him completely. Of course, they entered into these exercises with an imperfect understanding. Yet, in reading the Evergetinos we are blessed to see the development of their understanding and practice; how it becomes more measured and more focused upon God and the grace he provides.Beyond this, however, they were engaging in this way of life not simply in the pursuit of certain principles. Nor were they seeking to overcome their natural flaws and defects. They understood the struggle was also with demonic provocation. Therefore, they were not simply trying to foster good habits or to acquire a taste for that which was more virtuous. They understood that the spiritual life involved a bloody warfare against evil. The shadow of the Cross always falls over our struggles and stands as a reminder of the costs of sin. To overcome sin and its consequence, Christ sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane and was obedient unto death on the cross. The spiritual life is formed and shaped by the Paschal Mystery. It involves always a dying to self and rising to new life in Christ. To strip it of this understanding is to make our spiritual life and practices impotent. We are to be conformed to Christ in every way. We preached Jesus Christ and him crucified not only in words, but in our day-to-day struggle against sin and the passions.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:41 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 172, # C 00:22:42 Myles Davidson: What’s the difference between an oath and say, a general intention to do something? 00:24:43 Kate : What about resolutions that we make for a penitential time, such as Lenten resolutions or Advent resolutions? Is this a good practice according to the Fathers? 00:26:58 Forrest Cavalier: And all of these rely on God's grace for success. not our will alone. 00:37:38 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that? 00:38:25 Myles Davidson: Today is the beginning of St Martins Lent so to finish this now has been good timing 00:40:39 Erick Chastain: Why does fat mean there are increased passions? Are there other foods like that? 00:42:05 Myles Davidson: I’ve been eating less meat meals and find a definite increase in nepsis and general ability to concentrate in my prayer 00:43:18 Wayne: I think you you eat to much surgar etc you get highs and low from it.. 00:44:33 Sheila: It's a true challenge to avoid all the desserts because it seems these days people start Christmas festivities as soon as Thanksgiving ends, or in the case of many around me at school...now. 00:44:55 Sheila: Secular Christmas is all around. 00:47:16 Kate : And there are so many different diets now that encourage us to fixate on certain types of foods…keto, carnivore, longevity diets, etc. etc. There might be some health benefits to them, but they can become intense distractions. 00:48:22 Anna Lalonde: Homeschooling... Everything then is centered in faith. 00:49:50 Anna Lalonde: There's so many resources and online live classes and tutoring we have less issues as homeschooling. 00:50:01 Anna Lalonde: Lol 01:01:14 Myles Davidson: Better to engage in the battle imperfectly than to not engage in it at all 01:18:21 Anna Lalonde: Yes that's what I do. Go to Jesus Prayer 01:19:12 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:19:16 Rebecca Thérèse: thank you🙂 -
What does it mean to be drawn into the mystery of Divine Love? Even as beautifully as John writes, it is difficult to wrap our minds around the experience of the living God; the experience of a love that is free of every impediment and passion, a love that makes us sons and daughters of God and so shapes are identity in such a way that it is unshakable.
What is it that can overcome such a love? Our identity is often shaped by anxieties and fears, the unexpected and unknown, and our insecurities. Yet, as we are immersed in the love of God, all fear dissipates and is overtaken by an urgent longing for God and the thirst for his love.
We often resist opening ourselves up and becoming vulnerable to this love. One famous author wrote, “humankind can only bear so much reality.“ Yet the love of God, the more that it is experienced, allows us to run toward that reality rather than avoid it . It reveals to us that even our weaknesses, the things that we perhaps hate about ourselves or the wounds that we bear, draw us toward him. Love reveals to us that we experience nothing in isolation. Christ is always present to us and within us. This being so allows us to offer Him all that we are without shame.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:06:36 Una: Byzantine Carmelite nuns https://www.byzantinediscalcedcarmelites.com/index.html 00:06:55 Una: In Sugarloaf, Pennsylvania 00:08:46 Bob Cihak, AZ: The author was one of the lecturers at Acton University when I attended over 10 years ago."The Glory that is Pittsburgh" at https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/the-glory-that-is-pittsburgh-5753572 00:12:33 Una: A line from that article that has me ROFL 00:12:35 Una: Pittsburgh is a town that makes me want to rhapsodize like a follower of Ayn Rand. 00:14:05 carol_000: Does this Zoom start a bit before 5:30 E Time ? 00:14:28 Una: Just chat before 5:30 00:15:10 carol_000: Una ..Thanks 00:16:00 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Is it the same material as Father posts on FB? 00:16:01 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9 00:19:08 Daniel Allen: What page are we on again? Sorry I missed it. 00:19:16 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 244, #9 00:19:21 Daniel Allen: Thank you 00:46:02 Anthony: Part of the issue is how we receive the Gospel and Apocalypse....these are written with fearful language. 00:48:36 susan: some of the teaching seems so hard to do or embrace and seems like climbing Mt Everest lol so I have decided to become a micro ascetic offer the smallest, micro offerings tiny tiny acts 00:50:21 Anthony: Should peter have been confident of forgiveness , even before the Lord forgave him? 00:51:12 David: Isn't there a process of letting go of things that leads us from obedience and caring to devotion. It seems love itself has stages and perhaps devotion is a joy in itself. But without letting go we lack faith and trust in the beloved. 01:04:11 David: My grandfather one time had me write down everything I was worried about for weeks. He kept it and showed it to me a year later and I realized how much time I wasted on that. While it took me years to understand it did help me move from belief to faith. 01:04:29 Daniel Allen: How do you give God “those things” in a concrete way? For instance how do you give God your anxiety in a concrete way, because sometimes offering it in prayer seems somewhat abstract. 01:05:19 Wayne: Reacted to "My grandfather one t..." with 👍 01:08:28 David: A beautiful tradition I saw in Potes, Spain was at collection people would give both money but what concerned them or what sins they were struggling with written on small pieces of paper to bring to the altar. I wonder which this is just a small town and (small t tradition) rather than more common. Just struck me as beautiful and I still think of that when I put something in the collection basket. 01:09:07 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Some find writing helpful - a note or letter to the Lord in one's journal. Or an expression in art... 01:09:14 Anna Lalonde: More frequent mystery of Repentance and gratitude are so important for this! Seen it with grief in my children and I. 01:14:41 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father! 01:14:48 Rachel: Thank you 01:14:49 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:50 David: Thank you father. May God bless you! 01:15:33 Jeff O.: Thank you so much! -
Tonight we read the final sections on the fathers’ reflection on the practice of fasting. Once again the focus is on decorum; how does one eat in the presence of others while not giving himself over to pride. It is ever so easy to think oneself the great ascetic and hold oneself above others within the community. Ego can even distort well-practiced discipline into something that sets oneself apart from others rather than leads one to show greater desire for God, virtue and mercy towards others.
All of our practices, the fathers teach us, must be guided by spirit of gratitude. We give thanks for the food that we receive and that nourishes us and we avoid criticizing others for how much they eat. Self discipline is not a weapon to be wielded by the ego for its own pleasure. Our tendency is to devour our brothers’ flesh by our criticism, and as the psalmist tells us to “eat up God’s people as if eating our bread.”
A humble attitude must be fostered, and we must not be ill-mannered. For example, a senior monk within a monastery must not demand honor or reverence or put on airs before his juniors. He must not draw attention to Himself in any way that would diminish charity among the brothers. What is the value of toiling all day only to undermine oneself to satisfy petty pride?
Again, the fathers want us to understand that fasting and all of our disciplines are about love. We must not diminish the practice by becoming legalistic or moralistic in our view. Therefore, we are taught not to takes oaths about avoiding certain foods. In doing so we set aside the freedom that is ours. No food is reprehensible. We are merely to eat with restraint and gratitude. But if we take an oath and then break it by eating the particular food we fall into perjury. As Christ tells us, no food is unclean; rather it is what comes out of the heart that makes a person unclean or sinful.
A rather lengthy discussion ensued in regards to avoiding a kind of ghetto mentality in our Christian practice; setting ourselves apart from others rather than serving them in the love of Christ. It is a narrow line that we walk and demands that we understand that all is grace. Christ has taken on our poverty and emptied himself in order that we might know the fullness of life and love. Our exercise of the faith, that is, our asceticism, must be relational; it must be directed toward Christ and enable us to love as He loves. Asceticism is not an end in itself, nor do we live out our Christianity in isolation. We turn to Christ, we die to sin and self, in order to be raised to life in him. To avoid the kind of isolationism that we would see in the scribes and Pharisees, we must become Christ.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:09:37 Cindy Moran: The joys of home ownership 😜 00:11:29 Una: I'm a happy renter 00:12:37 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 168, #F 00:35:02 Erick Chastain: Once you pop you can't stop- pringles 00:35:21 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Once you pop you can..." with 😮 00:36:46 Adam Paige: Two recommendations on fasting and feasting.. Benedictine monk Adalbert de Vogue's book To Love Fasting is back in print in English (https://a.co/d/3hSwoIX), and I recently watched the film Babette's Feast for the first time - very moving ! 00:38:09 Myles Davidson: A free PDF of To Love Fasting is available here:https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting 00:40:39 Adam Paige: Reacted to "A free PDF of To Lov..." with ❤️🔥 00:46:33 Francisco Ingham: There’s a great Chesterton quote related to this point 00:46:43 Francisco Ingham: “Let us put a complex entrée into a simple old gentleman; let us not put a simple entrée into a complex old gentleman. So long as human society will leave my spiritual inside alone, I will allow it, with a comparative submission, to work its wild will with my physical interior. I will submit to cigars. I will meekly embrace a bottle of Burgundy. I will humble myself to a hansom cab. If only by this means I may preserve to myself the virginity of the spirit, which enjoys with astonishment and fear.” 00:54:11 Adam Paige: Reacted to "“Let us put a comple..." with 🍷 00:55:51 Ambrose Little: Can you comment on the seeming contradiction between Christ’s example of eating and drinking with sinners (and generally chastising Pharisees for being puritanical), and the counsel to avoid such and only surround oneself with those we deem holy and who think like we do. 01:05:17 Ambrose Little: It seems like there is real danger (that has actually been realized) in thinking and acting as if the church is only for the already perfect. But as Pope Francis has emphasized, the church is supposed to be a hospital for sinners. I just think the advice to avoid sinners and those who are not seeking God as we imagine we are can easily be internalized as exclusivity, isolationism, and judgmentalism. It requires humility as a primary principle, to realize we are sinners, too. 01:14:29 Ambrose Little: Amen. Thank you! 01:14:48 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:14:54 santiagobua: Thank you ! 01:15:36 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:15:47 Francisco Ingham: Thank you Father 01:15:52 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father 01:15:59 Erick Chastain: Thank you father! 01:16:05 Una: Thank you 01:16:08 santiagobua: Where can we find the Substack? 01:16:10 SYu’s iPhone: Thank you, Father. 01:16:43 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where can we find th..." https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:16:46 Myles Davidson: https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:16:50 Adam Paige: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍 01:17:10 santiagobua: Reacted to "https://substack.com..." with 👍 01:17:17 Ambrose Little: Reacted to "https://substack.com…" with 👍 01:17:18 Erick Chastain: Just woke up earlier -
We are brought to the denouement of the Ladder in these final steps on Dispassion and the “Trinity of Virtues” - Faith, Hope and Love. The words of St. John ring forth as if from the mouth of a poet. It is only one who has experience of and has seen the beauty of Divine love who can then speak of the urgent longing that begins to take over the soul when it no longer is held back by the weight of sin or one’s ego.
The dispassionate man, St. John tells us, no longer lives himself, but Christ lives in him. He has eyes only for the beloved and living in constant union with him. All becomes Grace; Christ’s virtue becomes our virtue, Christ’s strength becomes our strength, Christ’s love becomes our love.
Understanding this we must not allow anything to hold us back. Above all we should desire to enter into the bridal chamber; for this is exactly what Christ has made possible for us. Our relationship with God is often described with nuptial imagery; we are destined to become one with the most holy Trinity. What excuse could we possibly put forward for not at least seeking to break through the wall of our sin by embracing the forgiveness that is so freely offered?
St. John’s discussion of dispassion leads us to the final step of the Ladder. The theological virtues, named so because they have God as their end, become St. John’s subject matter. These three are preeminent because they endure unto eternity. The greatest of them, love, allows no respite for the soul but drives her on with a kind of blessed madness. Overcome with an urgent longing for the Beloved it takes on a greater resemblance to God in so far as this is possible. The soul becomes inebriated - so often does it seek to satisfy its thirst for divine love. Having satisfied this desire the heart expands, taking on distinctive properties where it becomes a fountain of faith, an abyss of patience and a sea of humility. What takes place then is extraordinary: love banishes every thought of evil or judgment. Only mercy, forgiveness and compassion remain.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:13:44 Myles Davidson: According to Wikipedia Scorcese is doing one on Moses the Black 00:14:08 Myles Davidson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese_Presents:_The_Saints 00:18:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 243, #13 00:37:15 Anthony: Renzo Allegri write a book: "Padre Pio Man of Hope." Good book. 00:39:32 Anthony: And this is why legalism and scrupulousity is such a problem. They strangle wonder and longing. 00:41:29 Anthony: Franciscans are like the east 00:56:20 Anthony: Eastern Star 00:56:26 Leilani Nemeroff: Eastern Star 00:57:29 David: A book that really lead me to the fathers and from mere belief to faith was "What Difference Does Jesus Make"- Frank Sheed. Really hard to find not sure why this is not more popular. 00:59:25 carol_000: What time zone did this meeting start at 7:30 00:59:34 Nypaver Clan: EST 00:59:34 David: EST 00:59:48 carol_000: Thanks 01:00:09 Nypaver Clan: Reacted to "Thanks" with 🥰 01:01:21 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: The kingdom must be preached/shared - we are way too silent about sharing our faith... 01:02:42 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Guardini has a great book on prayer.. 01:02:49 Jeff O.: Reacted to "Guardini has a great..." with 👍 01:04:42 carol_000: Calgary, Alberta Canada. Mountain Standard Time. My first time here. 01:05:07 Nypaver Clan: Meditations Before Mass - Guardini 01:05:07 Myles Davidson: Welcome 🙂 01:06:19 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Thanks. 01:07:33 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Hooray! Glad you found us! 🙏🏼 01:07:36 Jeff O.: The madness of pride as opposed to the madness of love is an interesting juxtaposition. Two very distinct and different “pictures” of madness. 01:09:10 Cindy Moran: Reacted to The madness of pride... with "👍" 01:09:48 Cindy Moran: Me, too!! 01:09:53 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Welcome, Canada!🇨🇦 01:10:06 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" I've been following Fr. Charbel for a while, but now I'm wondering which branch of Orthodoxy is this? Reference to author & "Mass" ? 01:10:59 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Byzantine01:11:09 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Thanks 01:12:54 Anna Lalonde: Thank you! My children and I are loving this. 01:13:03 Nypaver Clan: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Ukrainian Greek 01:14:09 Jeff O.: That would be lovely! 01:14:26 carol_000: Replying to "Welcome 🙂" Thanks, I was raised Ukr. Grk Orthodox but now go to OCA church in All English. 01:14:45 Kevin & Lilly: Yes!! 01:14:52 Rachel: and icon paintng 01:15:00 Jacqulyn: Let's do it! 01:15:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father 01:15:35 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:15:35 Anna Lalonde: Prayers for my healing. Please especially St Charbel help me! 01:15:38 Rachel: thank you! 01:15:39 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 😊 01:15:42 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all! 01:15:44 David: Thank you father! 01:15:46 Dave Warner (AL): Thank you Father! 01:15:54 Edmund Dyjak: Thank You GOD Bless You -
We have continued to make our way through the final few hypotheses about fasting and eating in general. What is gradually coming to light is that our relationship with Christ and our identity in Him is to form and fashion every aspect of our lives. This includes what we might consider the most mundane aspects of our life or what we take for granted, such as eating and common meals.
What becomes perfectly clear in this hypothesis, however, is that there is a specific decorum that emerged in the practice of the fathers. The way that they looked at food and the way that they ate their common meals was all shaped by their greater commitment to the life of prayer and silence. The ascetical life shaped their actions and supported their pursuit of the ultimate goal. Thus eating, the quality of the food, the mannerisms at table and amount of food that other monks ate and the general behavior during meals all became important matters and subject to proper formation.
The ideal was not to form a Christian gentleman, but rather to form a heart that was watchful at all times of the day and that was very much aware of the power of our most basic appetites. We see restraint being taught; that is, slowing oneself down at meals and not being driven by the pressure of hunger or the allure of delicious food. It is Christ the Bread of Life that one is always seeking and so the way that we approach our meals should be a reflection of how we approach the Lord in the Holy Mysteries. Our mindset, our sense of gratitude, the solemnity of our attitudes and behaviors are all reflection of our understanding of the connection with the Paschal Mystery. When we think of our own formation we must have this broad scope so that we do not treat our ascetic practices as ends in themselves. All that we do must be offered to God or it is wasted.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:17:20 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 165, #A 00:44:06 Una: LOL about the comment about men eating. And then they throw their silverware in the trash? Obviously, I've never been in a men's monastery. But how can we who are living in the world apply these standards to everyday dinners with family? 00:46:49 Una: I'm thinking of Thanksgiving Dinner where people gobble gobble gobble and aren't focused on God at all. Last year I had a hard time getting them to listen to the Prayer of St. Francis before the meal. Very secular family. How I personally may maintain my recollection yet still be social 00:47:50 Una: I find I can "go out" of myself so easily and get lost in socializing and talking (I'm an extravert) and then have difficulty becoming recollected again 01:03:42 Una: Is it true that the early Irish monasticism came from Egypt? 01:10:13 Una: There's a new book on this subject: Monastery and High Cross: The Forgotten Eastern Roots of Irish Christianity 01:10:20 Una: by Connie Marshner 01:10:34 Una: Sophia Institute Press 01:11:49 Steve: Good story 01:11:59 Una: Connie Marshner is a Melkite Green Catholic in Virginia 01:21:26 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:21:48 Troy Amaro: Thank you Father. 01:22:30 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, sorry I was so late, our clocks went back an hour yesterday and I forgot about the time difference 01:24:18 ANDREW ADAMS: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene. 01:25:19 Adam Paige: Where does one find the substack? I’m not knowledgeable on the whole social media scene.https://substack.com/@frcharbelabernethy 01:25:44 ANDREW ADAMS: Replying to "Where does one find ..." Thank you! 01:27:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: .. or https://frcharbelabernethy.substack.com/ 01:28:16 Paul G.: Replying to ".. or https://frchar…"+1 01:29:21 Maureen Cunningham: Thank you 01:32:17 Maureen Cunningham: Wow -
St. John understands that we are out of our depths whenever we try to capture with words what comes through experience. This is true in particular of the heights of prayer, contemplation, and with dispassion. John’s language is poetic and thus a reflection of his straining to present us with the end of the spiritual life and what the heart longs for the most.
In concluding his teachings on prayer, he warns us of certain pitfalls to avoid in order that our focus might remain upon Christ. Above all he does not want us to become discouraged by the attack of the evil one. Such a thing is to be expected. Prayer is so beautiful and transformative that the demons are going to do everything they can to disrupt it. Yet, John would have us understand that the demons are scourged by prayer and when we show fortitude they flee. Finally, he would have be confident in the practice of prayer. There is nothing that one can write in a book that is necessary when we have God himself as the Teacher of prayer. It is the Holy Spirit that searches the depths of God the guides us forward.
Dispassion is even more difficult to capture with mere words for it describes one who has made his flesh incorruptible and has subdued all the senses; keeping his soul before the face of the Lord and always straining towards him. One is not only detached from the things of this world but has a gathered an exhaustible store of virtue as a source of strength. They are driven no longer by fear, but now only love; love that cannot be understood by mere reason. The soul is drawn forward by an urgent longing that belongs only to those who are created in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, St. John sees dispassion as purity of heart; where a person has reached a level of existence where sin has no hold upon them and there is no longer even any awareness of the presence of demons. Such an individual is wholly united with God and always will be.
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00:05:24 Gregory Chura: Which step? 00:06:05 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 240, #58 00:07:29 Myles Davidson: Can I ask what edition of The Ladder we are reading from? 00:08:08 Adam Paige: Paulist Press edition page 281 🙂 00:09:01 Adam Paige: The introduction is excellent too, although it doesn’t contain the Letter to the Shepherd at the end 00:11:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 240, #58 00:15:46 Kevin & Lilly: Aren't we supposed to expose our wound (sin) in its entirety for Jesus to heal it (in the confessional)? Similar to removing the band-aid, even if it hurts us? 00:21:42 Cindy Moran: Some things you can not "unsee" 00:26:26 susan: I get attacked walking up to communion and then I feel 00:26:48 susan: like I have done something wrong 00:29:02 Anthony: I also think having undergone at least once a spiritual attack, a person anticipates it and therefore brings it to mind? 00:31:05 Christian Corulli: Love of God destroys all fear 00:56:07 Christian Corulli: This sounds like the 7th Mansion of St. Teresa, can we make that comparison? Do the Carmelites trace the same spiritual path as St. John Climacus? 01:08:10 David: Is there an element of experience or getting older in this step. My grandfather always used to say youth is a process of acquiring and drive and growing old is the challenge of learning to let go. Through suffering, experience I can see more an more elements of dispassion or not feeling as connected to what many seek in the world and am left with only what endures which is family and faith. 01:22:15 David: Saving us from ourselves 01:22:38 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Blessing to all 01:23:06 Gregory Chura: Thank you, everyone, 01:23:06 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Thank You Blessing t..." with ❤️ 01:23:07 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father !!! 01:23:10 Anthony Kinyon (Αντώνιος Κινγιόν): Thank you Fr. Charbel. 01:23:10 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:23:10 David: Thank you father and God bless you and your mom 01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:23:16 Cameron Jackson: Overwhelmed again. Thank you Fr. 01:24:13 Alexandra: Thank you Father. I'll pray for you -
It’s important for us as we read the fathers and consider the discipline that they embraced regarding our appetites and desires that we do not demonize these realities or fall into extreme practices. At the heart of the fathers’ lives and teachings is desire; allowing the love of God and gratitude for his gifts to guide and direct their understanding of life and perception of reality.
It is true that the desert was every bit the laboratory; the fathers often pushed themselves in extreme ways in order that their appetites and their desires for satisfaction and pleasure would lose their grip upon them. They were often harsh with themselves in ways that seem abhorrent to modern sensibilities.
Yet they realized that these realities are very powerful parts of our humanity. The body, for example, through the ascetic life can be a powerful aid in our sanctification. However, if we approach our appetites in an unmeasured fashion, or in a way that is simply focused upon the self, then that which is most beautiful can be corrupted.
Thus, our own embrace of the ascetic life should be rooted in desire; our sense of lack and incompleteness outside of God. Our truest identity is established and found only in Him. Such a vision must be fostered from the earliest years of our lives. For it is not something that one can give or share with another. It comes only through experience. One comes to love the disciplines of which the father speak (fasting, prayer, vigils etc.) because they are far more than mere disciplines. They open up the path for us to experience the invincible joy and peace and freedom of the Kingdom. “Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.”
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00:15:57 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 161, G 00:16:11 Adam Paige: Reacted to "P. 161, G" with 👍 01:05:40 Bob Cihak, AZ: From Adam:Adam Paige 5:14 PMShould we avoid restaurants since they’re typically predicated on desirable food ? Or should we order a less appealing meal when we are at a restaurant ? 01:12:52 Cindy Moran: You aren't missing anything! 01:14:19 Adam Paige: Reacted to "You aren't missing a…" with 😂 01:19:42 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father 01:19:55 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:19:59 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father! 01:20:11 Tracey Fredman: Glad you are feeling better, Fr. Charbel! 01:20:14 Troy Amaro: Thank You Father. 01:20:21 Kevin Burke: Thank You Father! 01:20:39 Tracey Fredman: Liturgy of the Hours is one you mentioned one time. Is that a possibility for a topic? 01:20:47 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Liturgy of the Hours…" with ❤️ 01:21:01 Cameron Jackson: Thank you Father 01:21:19 Myles Davidson: Your Substack is excellent Father -
As St. John draws us more deeply into his understanding of prayer and the experience of intimacy with God, he begins to emphasize the importance of maintaining purity of heart and humility. Either through negligence or through demonic provocation, we can find ourselves being driven not by the Holy Spirit toward God but rather driven by the desires of the flesh. The vulnerability of prayer, opening our minds and our hearts to God, also carries with it the need to have established watchfulness of heart. If we have not we can indiscriminately open ourselves up to certain dangers. For example, we may allow our mind to wander during prayer in such a way that we turn away from God. It can even happen that in this turning away we are move towards the enemies of God. Like Judas we can share most intimately with the Lord at the table of the holy Eucharist and then immediately be driven out by an unholy spirit into the darkness. It is those who are closest to Christ who often betray him the most.
We all take certain things for granted. This is true in our relationship with God. We can treat that relationship cheaply; enter into it with a kind of familiarity to the point that we lose sight of the preciousness of what God has made possible for us. Our attachment to the things of this world or to individuals can fill our minds and our hearts even during the time of prayer. Therefore, John wants us to have no illusions about what it is that we ask for and seek in prayer. Our greatest desire should be what leads us to God and what endures unto eternity. As Saint James tell us: “we ask, but we do not receive because we ask wrongly.” We seek only the satisfy our natural wants and desires. As it has been said, “The fool’s portion is small in his eyes.” Often we do not see the beauty of what God offers us.
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00:12:58 Bob Cihak, AZ: P.239, #50 00:13:44 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "P.239, #50" with 👍 00:14:28 Dave Warner (AL): Reacted to "P.239, #50" with 👍 00:51:38 Rachel: or to satisfy ego since it is difficult to see oneself as nothing and in such need. 00:59:38 David: Someone told me once - measure your thoughts and you measure what you treasure. Treasure only what is everlasting. 01:02:14 Laura: Reacted to "Someone told me once..." with 👍🏼 01:04:59 Rebecca Thérèse: It seems to me that it's easier to catch someone in infidelity these days because of socia media and smart devices etc than it was previously. 01:11:31 Anthony: I've wondered if we get monastic life and vocations imbalanced? I read that among Syrians, there was one "monastic" community composed of subsets of vowed religious, families and singles. This makes for universality and diversity and maybe a healthier psychology for persons? 01:13:45 Rebecca Thérèse: Thomas Szasz the anti-psychiatry psychiatrist wrote a paper about how psychiatrists persuaded the Church that sex abusers were ill and could be treated and how this led to priests being "treated" and moved instead of being fired. 01:14:12 Una: Jon Hassler wrote North of Hope dealing with this situation of the priest who dealt with this issue 01:14:29 Una: Excellent novel 01:18:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great to be back in class!! 01:18:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂 01:18:47 David: Thank you father. Glad your feeling better! 01:18:51 Jeff O.: Thank you!! 01:19:02 Rachel: Thank you 01:19:03 Tracey Fredman: Reacted to "Thank you father. Gl..." with ❤️ -
It may seem surprising that the fathers spend so much time speaking about food and how we approach eating. Yet the needs of the flesh are very much a part of who we are as human beings. So how we eat and what we eat can affect what goes on internally. We can be subject to disorder or extremes in one fashion or another.
What we see in the desert fathers and mothers is a love of fasting because they saw it as the insurer and foundation of the other virtues. In other words, when one can order an appetite and a desire towards what is good and specifically as tied to our hunger for God, then we are able to do so with other aspects of our humanity and our other appetites. Eating, being one of the most basic needs can lead us in one of two directions; either it is the gateway vice that opens us up to be more vulnerable to disordered appetites, or our restriction of our diet can turn us toward God who satisfies the deepest longings of the human heart.
The fathers examine the practice of eating from multiple perspectives. They had an acute sense of the subtlety with which the mind approaches such a practice. We can be hyper-focused upon the body and its needs. We can use illness as an excuse for slothfulness or to eat beyond our needs or what health demands. Likewise, we can become overly focused upon the quality of food and only want what is pleasing to the pallet or perfectly fresh. We lose sight of the fact that what we prize so much passes into the latrine. It may satisfy the pallet but it does not give rest to the soul.
The fathers also understood that we must give ourselves over to this practice without over-analyzing its value. Our tendency to pamper the body can make us and our consciences become callous and lead us down the path to hedonism. We lose sight of the fact that this appetite is incited by everything in the culture around us that has made food an idol. It has also made it a medicine in the sense that we turned to it to find solace and comfort. In a subtle way we are being taught to avoid affliction at any cost and to question the redeeming nature of the cross.
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00:10:54 Nick Bodmer: I had a question about the next work for the Wednesday group. What is after the Ladder, and is there a recommend translation? 00:12:17 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 159, #B 00:12:40 Nick Bodmer: 👍 00:21:03 Bob Cihak, AZ: A good friend lost 20 pounds. His method: When I'm not hungry, I don't eat. 00:22:02 Myles Davidson: Do you have any advice for those of us who are very slim and with very little body fat but who want to increase our fasting practice? I’m finding it a real art-form and a balance that’s not easy to find. 00:25:01 Bob Cihak, AZ: Many find "Eat, Fast, Feast" a book by my friend, Jay Richards, very helpful. He looks at fasting for spiritual, fitness and dietary reasons; he says no one else had written such a book. 00:25:25 Forrest Cavalier: Hi Myles, I am low BMI myself. I discipline my fasting in order to not go below a target weight. For me 137 lbs. I do not eat breakfast. I do not eat snacks during Lent. I have to increase calories at some meals. Most of my fasting discipline is not calorie reduction, but not eating dairy or meat on Wednesday and Friday. 00:28:10 Nick Bodmer: This is why the medieval monks made beer 🤣 Maintains calories. 00:29:28 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "This is why the medi..." with 😃 00:36:23 Nikki: If someone is not lean after a decent time of fasting and self discipline with their eating, would that be an indicator they aren’t being disciplined enough to reach that deeper intimacy with the Lord? 00:39:40 Anthony: St Thomas Aquinas was so big they cut a hole in dining table fir him....so I've heard. Some people like Neapolitans can be big boned people. 00:41:58 Andrew Adams: cortisol 00:42:02 Nick Bodmer: Cortisol 00:42:51 Joseph: St. Athanasius described St. Anthony: “And they, when they saw him, wondered at the sight, for he had the same habit of body as before, and was neither fat, like a man without exercise, nor lean from fasting and striving with the demons, but he was just the same as they had known him before his retirement.” 00:46:45 Bob Cihak, AZ: Our culture now promotes paying MORE money for LESS nutritional value, counting calories as a nutritional value. 00:52:28 Anthony: The news scares about food also contribute to our derangement 01:00:20 Anthony: Bloomin onion 01:05:06 Anthony: The marketers sell us on the things that cause problems and then sell us on the "remedies".....which cause more problems. This is prophecy of Amos territory. 01:09:52 Nick Bodmer: Health is a good, but when we make it an ultimate good, and end in itself, it becomes an idol. 01:11:16 Bob Cihak, AZ: Reacted to "Health is a good, bu..." with 👍 01:11:51 Bob Cihak, AZ: . As a recovering (retired) MD, I agree with Nick. 01:13:21 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:13:23 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 -
Above all St. John’s writing on prayer works to break through the myopic vision that we have of life, of prayer, and of God. Like so many of the fathers, he will hammer away at anything which prevents us from experiencing the fullness of God’s love and mercy. Thus, he both rebukes and encourages.
We began this evening with a warning about admitting fantasies into our mind and heart during prayer. The demonic provocation at such times will be to use religious ideas, visions, etc., to distract us from the beloved and the encounter with him in silence. However, John tells us, if we hold fast to this prayer we are given an invincible assurance; there is a loss of all doubt and the certainty of God’s love is all that remains. The encounter with God Himself is proof of the unprovable!
We must give great care to put on the mind of Christ. We must be merciful as our Heavenly Father is merciful. To allow ourselves even to think of justice is going to immediately pull us down. For there is no justice! What has been revealed to us is unconditional love, mercy, and compassion. To turn a harsh eye toward another is to turn our eyes away from God.
Furthermore, we must allow God in his providence to set both the time and measure of prayer. We cannot treat it as something that anything else in our life is equal to in importance. This is especially true in those blessed moments where God fills the heart with compunction and the eyes with tears that cleanse the soul. We must not break away or abandoned prayer until we see that by divine Providence both the fervor and tears have diminished. “For perhaps you will not have such a moment for the remission of your sins again in all your life.“ We must always choose the one thing necessary.
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00:15:36 Una: The Catholic psychologist Dr. Raymond Lloyd Richmond 00:15:53 Una: ChastitySF.com 00:31:09 Anthony: Why are Roman Catholics so fixated on justice? I've thought it's due to inheriting the legal notions of Roman imperial law and German folk law. But we're so focused on law, that being a Roman Catholic is sometimes not appealing. Thank God for persons like St Francis of Assisi. 00:33:15 Victor Haburchak: Americans are impacted by English Common Law. We’re more rigid than Italians it’s been said. 00:34:42 Anthony: I went to Italy. Naples and South. It's so different 00:34:56 Victor Haburchak: Reacted to "I went to Italy. Nap…" with 👍 00:38:00 Victor Haburchak: On the monastic rules for fasting my grandfather, a Ruthenian immigrant from Eastern Europe, said they were practically starving & yet there were constant calls to fast throughout the year while he was slaving in coal mins v 00:38:47 Victor Haburchak: Coal mines…. 00:41:16 Victor Haburchak: He was a Greek-Catholic so experienced strictness of G-C priests. 01:05:38 Anthony: So that prayer also is as quick as breath 01:16:48 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father! 01:16:51 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂 01:16:51 Myles Davidson: That was a great hour. Thankyou Fr ! God bless you! 01:16:53 David: Thanks Father! 01:16:55 Cindy Moran: Thank You Father!!! 01:16:57 Jeff O.: Thank you! Great to be with you all. - Visa fler
