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Our hosts in the Management Café believe that everyone has the potential to be better at something. And for them, as for many of us, helping someone grow is one of the most rewarding aspects of being a manager. Similarly for employees it's a wonderful feeling to have a manager who believes in us, gives us opportunities to improve and offers their support.
However it's important for managers to recognise that not everyone wants to get better right now. Perhaps they are finding their self-actualisation outside of work. Perhaps they don't currently have the bandwidth for growth because they have too much going on inside or outside of work.
As always context is important. The person needs to be open to growth (Pro Tip - ask them!!). And it helps if the role or organisation provides appropriate opportunities for growth. But even outside their immediate role we can often find meaningful ways to help someone if we take a broad enough view of the person and their goals.
00:30 mins In his book Work Rules, Laszlo Bock talks about acknowledging that sometimes people aren't in the right context to fulfil their potential. And in that situation, the organisation might best help the person by putting them into a different context. That might be working with a different team or role. Or even moving to a job at another company.
3:40 Our hosts believe that everyone has the potential to do better at something.
4:20 Pilar shares her mixed experiences of offering people the chance to take on different roles within her theatre company. Some people were not ready to take on a new opportunity.
5:30 For Tim there is a thrill that comes from watching people get better at something, even if he is only marginally involved. And giving people the opportunity to develop in a role is something that he has, at times, prioritised over the needs of the team or the business. He doesn't regret many of these decisions.
7:10 We might also choose to develop a person because we don't want to have to find someone else to do it. So is it about developing them? Or is it about you?
8:30 One of the ways Tim has rationalised his approach is that even when investing in someone's development has not shown the desired result, there is still some benefit from showing other employees that the company values giving staff the chance to develop.
9:15 Managers can position these as bets or experiments. Tim has had some difficulties with this. As the manager it was easy for him to view it as a bet. But for the person taking the opportunity it was difficult to manage their expectations.
11:00 Pilar views this as a great attitude of a learning culture. Managers will give people opportunities even when the outcome is uncertain. People are willing to go out of their comfort zone to try something. And even if the person fails on their attempt it doesn't mean that all their other contributions are erased or that they are out of a job.
12:35 Tim had a period at Shield GEO where he hired mostly early career folks and enjoyed watching them flourish. Later when the business started hiring more experienced people who wanted stability in their role and career, Tim struggled to adjust. He couldn't quite kick the urge to grow people.
14:45 Tim found the Russ Laraway 3 Career Conversations model to be very helpful. By understanding the person's past and their dreams for the future, you are better able to help them in the present.
16:40 On the 21st Century Work Life podcast Pilar recently interviewed a large creative agency who built a solution to help companies better understand people's potential and interests. This software gives people a space to talk about their skills and interests outside their direct job role.
18:00 This is similar to the experience Tim had with Bree Caggiati. Bree's role as a journalist at Shield GEO was predominantly creating written content but Tim was aware Bree had done some podcasting with a friend. When the chance came for Pilar and Tim's companies to collaborate on the 21st Century Work Life podcast special series about Connection and Disconnection in Remote Teams, Bree took the opportunity and excelled.
19:50 There are two different types of potential discussed here. One is the potential to excel in their current role and the other is potential to do things outside their current role.
21:30 Coming back to the example of Bree, Pilar reminds us that its important to believe in the person's potential and to offer them support. It takes effort from the manager.
22:30 Pilar shares her wonderful approach to constructive feedback - she craves it because it shows her that the person believes in her potential to be better.
25:00 Motivation is very personal. And it's important to ask people what they want and how to support them. Tim wants to get better at this. He's made the mistake of assuming that a person wants to improve and that Tim is the best person to help them with it. Both of which have not always been true.
26:30 Without asking first, managers also run the risk of destabilising someone by pushing or pulling them in a direction they don't want to go right now.
What about you, dear listener? On the topic of asking, is there anything you'd like to share with us? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/
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Several times recently in the Management Café our hosts have talked about regrets. Those formative management experiences where they look back and wish they had acted differently. Making mistakes is part of our learning journey but some situations weigh on us more than others. Revisiting them can bring a range of challenging emotions like regret, guilt and shame.
Regret is an uncomfortable feeling, it's something we avoid. The discomfort can be heightened for managers who have a duty of care over their team and the extra weight that comes with an official title and position within the hierarchy.
Yet we can't just ignore it and move on. Regret carries valuable knowledge. It helps us understand what truly matters to us. It makes us aware of what behaviours need to change to in order to match our values. And it doesn't want to let go until we've acknowledged the lesson. This can be a slow and painful but very worthwhile process.
Pilar and Tim share a few of their (many) regrets as managers and talk how these experiences changed them. For our hosts this conversation is, in the words of Hector Santiesteban, restorative and therapeutic.
SHOW NOTES
00:30 mins In episode #74 "Leading in the Flow of Work", Pilar and Tim each talked about how they previously tried to live a life without regrets. But with age and more experiences this changed. Inevitably there are lots of regrets.
2:20 Regret can be a very helpful emotion for managers. It tells us that our actions in a particular situation weren't in line with our values. And it is important that in the future we handle these situations differently. Regret is a guide for our behaviour. When a situation comes up again we can be reminded of our regret. This helps us make better decisions in the moment.
4:15 Regret is uncomfortable but knowing that we can learn from bad experiences can make them a little more bearable. Regret wants us to understand why we feel bad about our actions and to try behaving differently in the future.
5:15 We experience regret because we care about what happened. If we pay attention to our regret and explore why we cared so much about a particular situation, it helps us better understand our values and how we want to live.
6:30 Tim used to tell himself that he'd never regret something if he felt he'd made a good decision based on what he knew then. But he came to realise that a lack of knowledge or awareness didn't necessarily excuse his actions and decisions. He'd still experience regret.
7:15 If we reject our regrets and hide behind phrases like "it's just business" then we are denying ourselves a valuable opportunity to learn.
8:00 Pilar highlights two different learning experiences. The first is regret from doing something we know we shouldn't do. The second is more nuanced - we think we're doing the right thing but we aren't. We are lacking the knowledge or experience to know better. So regret comes in to teach us.
8:50 Tim shares a story of one of his big regrets, when he reacted poorly to one of his team members who was struggling during a difficult period. The way Tim handled this situation nagged away at him for a long time. Looking back he can see he turned away from an opportunity to connect with and support the person. As a result they both suffered more.
12:00 This realisation took a long time to arrive and revealed itself in stages.
14:00 Talking about these situations with others can help us see things differently.
15:30 Pilar has a big regret from her period teaching A level students for Theatre Studies. A situation came up where her natural approach of positive reinforcement didn't work. She can still picture her student's face when it went awry! But for Pilar, the lesson was learnt and she decided to get better at corrective feedback.
20:15 Another of Pilar's regrets came from ignoring her gut instinct when taking on client work. The next time her gut started to tell her "no", she listened!
21:30 If we listen to our regret and act accordingly, at least we shouldn't experience regret over it. But it's hard to change behaviour. It might take a few attempts.
22:15 Regret hurts. Our memories of those situations are so vivid. We have a visceral reaction to the negative impact of our actions. This is part of the process, the pain helps us change our future behaviour. In a sense the deeper the regret, the better the lesson.
25:50 Pilar references The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward by Daniel Pink which suggests people have more regret over things they haven't done versus things they have done. (Neither host has read the book, neither has regrets). Pilar suggests that talking about regrets over things you've done is harder than regrets over things you didn't do. Because we have a clear understanding of the impact from the things we've actually done.
What about you, dear listener? What is your biggest regret as a manager? We'd love to hear from you!
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Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/
Let's face it, management has a mixed reputation. It seems like everyone has a story to tell about their manager doing something poorly. But when we break it down, often times it's that we've had a bad experience with a manager. That person might actually be an ok manager overall or even a good manager. But in this instance they did something wrong.Something we keep coming back to in the Management Café is how managers' mistakes impact the humans they manage. And these impacts are not trivial. People's jobs are important to them. They are linked to financial security, to their plans for the future, to their sense of self-worth and wellbeing. Bad experiences and bad managers can affect the employees for a long time afterwards.
There are many reasons why managers make mistakes. Some people just aren't suited to the job. Some aren't a good fit for a particular company or team or individual or situation. Some are still learning. It might not even be in the manager's control - for example bad behaviour might originate from someone more senior or the organisation itself. And of course managers are fallible just like everyone else. Sometimes they just mess up.
Most confusing of all is that these conditions are fluid. And it is about perception. A good manager for employee A might be a bad manager for employee B. The manager might think they did the right thing and their superiors or peers or team members might agree. But the affected employee can still disagree. Any they might all be right! As always, it's a tough job being a manager...
SHOW NOTES
00:00 mins Content warning! Talking about bad management can be triggering.
00:30 Pilar talks about her father, a senior engineer who did not like management.
2:00 People often grumble about management in general, but in reality they are talking about bad managers. There is a big difference.
3:40 It might take just one mistake for an average manager to be viewed as a bad manager. And once they are perceived as a bad manager it can be difficult to shift.
6:00 Nobody comes into management fully formed. We learn as we go and we make mistakes - many of which have an impact on the people we manage. So a person who is learning and growing as a manager will feel regret and guilt. This is not given enough importance by organisations. It's a difficult job and managers should be better supported.
7:20 Some managers take a defensive stance to protect themselves against the human impact of their actions. The phrase "It's not personal, it's just business" comes to mind...
8:15 Context is so important. If we want someone to do their best work, the environment and fit need to be right. This will be different for different people. And it can change with the circumstances. Tim shares an anecdote of managing someone who started off thinking he was a good manager, but ended up thinking he was a bad one.
10:45 When interviewing candidates, Tim could sometimes see the scars left on people through their experiences with bad managers. As Pilar points out, this experiences are carried forward into future interactions. It forms part of the psychological contract that we create with our workplace. (Check out episode #5 for more on this.)
13:40 If an employee has only experienced micromanagement, that becomes their expectation of what management is.
14:00 Manager "readmes" can be helpful for employees and managers to make their expectations and needs more explicit.
15:30 There is often a big disconnection between the people making a decision and the people impacted by that decision. Pilar shares an example from the Harvard Business Review article "Leading in the Flow of Work" (the bulk of this article was discussed in episode #74), where a hospital's administration suddenly introduced a meeting during a critical part of the day for the clinicians and staff required to attend the meeting. This sort of thing happens all the time.
17:30 Take a deep breath as Tim attempts to draw a line from society and more specifically capitalism all the way through to having a bad line manager. Pilar is, as ever, the diplomat.
21:50 Tim climbs down from the ledge but still points to systemic issues often being at the root of bad management.
23:00 Pilar points out that the bulk of bad management is not the obvious examples like bullying. Most of it is less extreme. For example, managers who don't understand the work or consult with their teams. And this is the sort of behaviour which gives a bad name to management overall. If you don't put the effort in, then you are a bad manager.
24:00 An intriguing premise from Pilar: do people love to hate managers? Do we like having managers? Even, in some sense, like having someone who we can blame?
26:15 We close with a reminder that anyone listening to this podcast (or reading these show notes) is clearly not a bad manager! You are fighting the good fight and we appreciate you.
What about you, dear listener? Why do you think management has a bad name? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/ -
Tim and Pilar discuss an article featured in the Jan/Feb 2024 edition of the Harvard Business Review: "Leading in the Flow of Work" by Hitendra Wadhwa, Founder of the Mentora Institute.
Hitendra posits that "rather than (being) a trait to be acquired, leadership is a state to be activated" through preparation, self awareness and reflection. By managing our internal state and matching our actions to the context, we will function better and more authentically as leaders.
The article especially focusses on conversations and how leaders can get better outcomes by making conscious choices about what to do. It's an attractive premise, to be able to skilfully navigate the challenges of fluid interactions by pausing and then choosing, in the moment, an appropriate action for the situation.
This model lists five core energies: Purpose (committed to a noble cause), Wisdom (calm and receptive to the truth), Growth (curious and open to learning), Love (connected with those you work with and serve) and Self-realisation (centered in a joyful spirit). This is supported by 25 actions which help activate these core energies.
For our hosts this discussion is bittersweet. There is excitement at the prospect of making better decisions during important interactions. And there is also regret that our past selves didn't have the advantage of our current knowledge. Ironically of course it is that same regret which makes us the older and wiser person we are today...
0:30 mins Pilar appreciated several examples from the article of someone turning a potential confrontation into a better situation via the person shifting their approach.
2:30 Tim had previously associated flow states with sports - quite a different interpretation which is about acting without conscious thought or decision, just using instinct and muscle memory. But within the context of the article the flow state is where we are "calmly aware of our inner and outer conditions and able to adapt our behaviour as needed". Pilar describes this as a split personality between being present and reviewing what's going on. And being able to shift behaviour based on this conscious awareness.
5:25 We can all relate to the feeling of something not going the way we expected. When we unpack it afterwards we gain new insight and realise we should have acted differently. Alas, the moment has passed. Certainly both our hosts have experienced this many times!
6:25 The article shares a compelling example, from Jonathan Aitken's biography of Margaret Thatcher, about a pivotal meeting between Thatcher and Mikhail Gorbachev. At a crucial point Gorbachev was able to change his approach and in the process, change the course of history. He reminded himself of his intention coming into the meeting. He reframes his perception of how Thatcher is acting. And he finds alignment with her on principles.
8:20 Pilar shares that a realisation that has been transformational for her: that people are generally not acting with malice - they are trying to do what they believe is right.
8:50 We can practice and get better at understanding and acting within the moment itself. But it takes a lot of effort. And time.
10:50 Letting go of our everyday habits and ego can free us to choose the best way to act. It also requires the empathy of understanding what is happening for the other person.
12:15 Our hosts wrestle with the regrets that come with learning and evolving. But our experiences make us the person that we are today.
14:15 Leadership is not a static state: "The personality and behaviour of someone will change with the context that the person is in, the thoughts and feelings that individual is experiencing and who else is present". Pilar shares a story about how a change in context made a big difference in her performance.
17:00 This framework reminds us that our habitual behaviours aren't always going to work. If we are able to be aware and present in the moment, we have a better chance of navigating the situation.
19:40 Often conflict comes even though everyone wants the same outcome. There is just something else getting in the way.
21:45 Tim's experience aligns with the model in that he's had better outcomes when he has prepared, put effort into being open and aware, spent time unpacking and reframing interactions.
22:30 The five core energies are intrinsic to our core humanity. There is a close connection to authentic leadership. "Leadership in flow does not work by faking it".
25:00 One last reminder on the value of reframing. When aren't going to get things right every time. Instead of focussing on our failures, the article shares how we can still find pride in our intention and effort.
What about you, dear listener? Does Leadership in Flow resonate with you? Do you wish you could turn back the clock and get a second chance? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/
For the full show notes, head over to www.managementcafepodcast.com -
In 2024 Generative AI is still an a rapidly emerging technology. We know it's going to impact lots of jobs and work behaviour. But it's not yet apparent how that impact will be felt.
There is a big difference between ChatGPT helping you with a task (e.g. summarising your notes or drafting a communication) vs using it to entirely perform the task (e.g. using AI generated output without editing). Managers need to be mindful of how they are using AI, especially as it is increasingly embedded in digital workplace communication tools.
Transparency is also key - people should know why something might sound a little different than your normal style. Ultimately with a technology as prevalent and seductive as Gen AI, it's critical that we use it as an aid. We must not lose ourselves or our human connection to those we manage and work with.
Show notes:02:00 mins Our ability to experiment with new technology is much influenced by our context. Freelancers or those with lots of autonomy have an easier time experimenting with new tech. But those working in large, heavily controlled environments might have to wait a lot longer before they get to play.
3:45 AI is also showing up in software tools for example Helpscout bought an AI company to automatically draft replies to inbound support requests.
4:25 Kona have created an AI powered management coach in Slack. Tim is very uneasy about this - he feels that an authentic response, even if it isn't perfect, is still better than a "best practice" response. But Pilar rightly points out that some managers will just google "five tips for how to..." and then follow that advice. Is AI any worse?
6:15 AI can be even easier to ask than a human, e.g. if you had an external support network like we discussed in #65. AI is always available and quite forgiving. You don't even have to say please or thank you. Pilar has had to guard against becoming lazy because of the help she can get from ChatGPT.
8:10 Tim takes a "get off my lawn" approach that hard things, like writing a performance review, should be hard. Struggling through them makes you better at them and that experience is valuable. He also worries about the message it sends to your employees if they received a performance review written by ChatGPT.
10:00 Pilar outlines a different scenario where someone who has all the skills of a great manager but struggles to produce a well structured written summary. ChatGPT can help that manager draft the document. If the manager should be transparent with the employee that ChatGPT was used in creating the summary, the result can be a good one. After all back in the day a senior manager might have gotten their secretary to write up a performance review for them based on notes provided.
13:45 To get the best outcome the input needs to be detailed and high quality. And the final product must be edited and reviewed by the creator so that it reflects the reality of what they were trying to communicate.
16:15 Mindful use of generative AI takes a bit of work, but it means that you really are using it to represent your own thoughts and ideas.
17:55 The key for Pilar is transparency. Creators should disclose where they have used AI.
19:30 A danger with ChatGPT is it can disincentivise us from getting better at some valuable skills.
20:30 Rapidly emerging technology can create issues between those who are onboard with it and those who are not. People's awareness and tolerance and adoption happen at different paces.
21:30 Tim is concerned that use of AI by managers can damage authenticity and connection. It takes conscious effort to maintain human connection in a digital workplace, technology doesn't provide this by default. And yet AI is increasingly embedded in our communication tools.
23:00 Pilar agrees, but advocates for the benefits of mindful use. For example, someone who isn't very proficient in English could get great benefits from ChatGPT helping them writing email replies.
26:30 It might be that in a world of AI assisted communication, direct communication in your own voice becomes more valuable. Tim shares a story of a teacher who impacted him deeply through a creative personalised school report. And then juxtaposes this against the "copy and pasted" school reports his kids have regularly received.
31:15 Perhaps the safest use is to get AI to help with the mundane or analytical tasks and leave us free to focus ourselves on the people tasks.
What about you, dear listener? Have you experimented with using AI to help you with management tasks? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/ -
Following on from coffee #71 about the impact of technology on our leadership practice, Pilar and Tim talk about emoji as a communications tool for managers. Tiny and ubiquitous, it's easy to underestimate their importance.
But when used skilfully, emoji give us a visual language that can provide faster and more concise communication. Within the context of our teams and companies this communal language and interpretation can be another way for us to bond.
Unfortunately when used without context, emoji can struggle to overcome ambiguity. Some reactions, like anger, can be jarring when delivered via a tiny cartoon.
And in a world of "likes", the absence of an emoji can be felt as much as it's presence. "Did nobody read my message?" "Why did she like their post but not my post?" "They posted a slightly smiling face but why didn't they post the crying tears of laughter smiley face..."
01:00 mins Our hosts start with the question of whether to "thumbs up" or not "thumbs up".
02:00 Tim is very pro-emoji.
2:50 Pilar rarely uses the thumbs up, her favourite emoji is the thinker.
3:00 With the ease and popularity of quick reactions via emoji it can be addictive to "post for the likes". This can diminish communication if the primary aim is to get approval. This was covered by Basecamp on the Rework podcast "Please Don't Like This" and "Update: Please Don't Like This".
4:30 Pilar points out that because emoji are inherently playful it's not given the attention it deserves. And for Tim this is true, he primarily uses emoji in a light-hearted way.
5:50 Pilar shares an example of the dissonance which comes from using cartoons to express something serious.
6:45 Emoji are a very important tool that isn't given enough importance.
8:30 Pilar changes her position - Tim wishes he could give this a thumbs up in the café.
9:40 Mindless use of emoji is a problem but when used with intention they can help managers find new, nuanced ways to express themselves.
10:30 Emoji are, in each workplace, a language that is co-created. The person sending the emoji needs to know how it will be interpreted by those who see it.
11:45 Our hosts fantasise about a book "The Emoji Manager, how to manage your team using just 50 emoji".
12:45 How we use emoji in our teams is part of our team norms and culture. It can be a way for managers to bond their teams around a common language and behaviours.
13:45 Emoji make it easy for us to react. Pilar puts it best, that emoji allow us to "cut down on the time we're investing but not cut down on the effect of the communication".
16:20 Tim shares an example of how the managers in his leadership team started using emoji to facilitate their meeting preparation.
17:15 Much like an emoji, things get a little lighthearted and playful.
What about you, dear listener? How do you use emoji? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/ -
We hear a lot about tech. Tech disrupts businesses and creates unicorns. Tech changes workplaces and creates new ways to interact. But what about the impact of technology on our management practices?
Our hosts talk about the difficulties that come if we allow technology to dictate how we manage. And the unintended consequences if we don't align our technology tools with the problems we are experiencing.
00:30 mins Tim still writes everything into notebooks that he carries around and claims he is a "grumpy old man" with regard to technology - which is somewhat ironic given his previous company couldn't have existed without modern tech.
01:00 Pilar also prefers writing over typing but she uses a Remarkable tablet which makes it easier to share with others.
3:00 Over the last 15 years Tim has made the shift from early adopter to laggard.
5:30 It can be tempting to introduce technology "for technology's sake", using an application because it's popular or easy to implement. But if it's not solving a problem - what is the purpose? For example, several times Tim tried and failed to introduce Slack at his previous company. It only succeeded once the team had grown and the volume of internal emails became unsustainable. The moral is to not adopt something without first being clear on what problem you're trying to solve.
7:15 It's particularly important to remember as team leaders that a new piece of tech might solve a problem for us, but if it isn't also improving things for our team... adoption is going to be difficult.
8:20 Tim shares why some of the internal tools at Shield GEO were popular with staff even though the systems were ugly and clunky (hi Salesforce!).
9:00 Similarly technology, especially software, needs to be adapted to the needs of your team and the problem you're trying to solve.
10:20 Pilar gets us back on track by posing the question, "Did introducing technology change the way we managed people?"
11:15 Going back to Tim's memories of using Salesforce at Shield GEO, he talks about trying to drive behaviour in his team through using some default statistical reports. And finding unintended consequences, it drove the opposite behaviour to what was intended.
14:30 Slack changed how Tim managed his direct reports. It enabled much more structured and filtered communication.
16:15 Open communication tools like Slack can create their own set of problems. It can be distracting due to the volume of information flying past. It can lead us to get involved in discussions that don't need our input. And it can lead us to be more reactionary in communication.
18:25 How many likes are appropriate for a manager to sprinkle about? Pilar and Tim have differing views.
20:30 Overuse of the Slack "like" emoji pales into comparison with the horror of a reply-all email appreciation thread.
21:45 What are the impacts of your "like" strategy? If you are an intermittent liker, how will your likes be interpreted? And what will people think about the posts or comments you didn't engage with?
22:30 We've hit a nerve, stay tuned for a future episode on "managing by emoji".
What about you, dear listener? Has tech changed the way you manage? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/ -
The wonderful Morgan Legge, founder of Pivot Your Work and Head of Organizational Change at Convert.com, joins the Management Cafe! Morgan, Pilar and Tim met through online communities and podcasting, a great example of what we discussed in #65 "Building a network outside your organisation".
You might need 2 coffees for this wide ranging conversation covering Morgan's path to her leadership style, self-leadership, holacracy, how managers can protect their team against a toxic company culture, small changes managers can make that kickstart a broader change and how to take feedback well.
01:25 mins Morgan, Pilar and Tim share how they all met. Unsurprisingly online communities and podcasts all played a part!
6:15 Morgan recommends an interesting addition to the Management Cafe menu: the London Fog.
7:10 We learn more about Morgan's current role as Head of Organizational Change at Convert.com
8:35 Back in episode #60 we discussed whether leaders are born or made? Morgan says leadership is in her DNA. She's particularly drawn to coaching and leadership as a servant to teams. And her style of leadership has been influenced by her experiences being micromanaged and being a leader when she wasn't a manager.
9:55 Morgan implemented self-management at Convert.com and learnt that even if leadership isn't in someone's DNA they can learn to lead.
10:50 Tim says that we need to lead in ways that feel comfortable and authentic to us. And it can take time to develop that style.
11:30 It was pivotal for Morgan to establish boundaries on what she would and would not accept in a work environment.
12:30 For Morgan, leadership starts with self-leadership. This ties in well to Holacracy, an organizational model of decentralised management which empowers the people closest to the work to make decisions about that work. But self-management delivers great outcomes no matter what kind of management structure you are in.
16:30 Leadership skill development can be extended futher "down the chain" in organisations to help foster self-leadership.
17:00 Tim has some scars from organisations that weaponised the concept of self leadership. And seen people diminished by their experiences of being managed. To encourage self leadership the company must provide a suitable level of safety and opportunity.
19:15 Mid-level managers can create and sustain culture within their team that is different to the overall company culture. But it requires a lot of effort.
22:00 There is a great untapped demand for self-leadership amongst individual contributors and managers of teams. Morgan's new venture encourages these people to develop their capability and connect with others walking the same pathway.
26:10 Big changes can start with small steps. For example managers can start with how they structure their meetings. Meetings are regular and somewhat repetitive which gives lots of opportunities to practice our new behaviours.
30:00 Tim shares his slow and painful road to personal changes.
30:45 Morgan explains how to take feedback with curiosity and grace. Giving feedback takes bravery and it helps if we acknowledge their effort and demonstrate that we are receptive to them. This is especially powerful for leaders to role model.
35:00 Even uncomfortable feedback conversations generally improve the atmosphere, because at least everyone gets some clarity. Pilar welcomes constructive feedback but thinks that she could approach receiving positive feedback with more curiosity and grace. Morgan, Pilar and Tim all agree that receiving feedback, whether positive or constructive, gets easier with practice!
40:30 Morgan outlines her vision for Pivot Your Work and rescues the hosts with the outro. What a star guest!!
What about you, dear listener? Do you foster self-leadership in yourself and your teams? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/
You can connect here with Morgan:https://www.linkedin.com/in/morganlegge/
pivotyourwork.comAnd get in touch with Tim and Pilar through managementcafepodcast.com
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Managers sit at the crux of organisational transparency and discretion. They need their employees and organisations to share information with them and are regularly deciding what to pass on and what to keep confidential. It's a tough balance. People need the right information to feel secure and do their job, but too much information can be overwhelming.
Context and alignment are essential. Ideally managers want a match between their own desired level of transparency and their company's overall appetite for openness. Having these out of sync can be a recipe for disaster.
This episode is packed with anecdotes from our hosts on the good, bad and ugly of transparency in management.
00:30 mins The values of transparency within an organisation influence how we operate in terms of our openness and discretion. And managers especially need to be aware of, and stay in sync with, those organisational norms and expectations.
2:30 Openness and honesty are important elements of trust. But discretion is also an important part of the manager's toolkit. Tim shares an example of how his application of discretion changed during his time as a manager.
4:40 It's important to be explicit about confidentiality. Both the person disclosing and the person receiving information should be aware of whether they want something kept confidential, and whether it can be kept that way. Observing confidentiality is a key part of the psychological contract between employee and manager. Managers should ensure their behaviour is clear and consistent so that their employees feel secure when disclosing information to them.
7:50 It can get tricky when deciding how much of our personal opinions we should share. For example, if we disagree with an organisational decision, is it right to share that with our team? As always, it depends.
9:00 In her book Powerful, Patty McCord said "People can hear almost anything if it's true". In this quote she was primarily referring to feedback, but she built a notably open culture at Netflix.
9:50 If people think we are hiding more information than we need to, it creates a culture of secrecy. This lack of openness can lead to "How could this have happened here?" type scandals.
10:30 Tim talks about a recent time he chose not to share important context with an employee. Pilar points out that our desire to protect our employees from suffering will sometimes cause them greater suffering.
12:50 One of the big problems with withholding information is that people's imagination will almost always create a scenario that is worse than the reality. For example when Pilar didn't get feedback from a manager she created her own narrative.
15:00 Too much transparency from a manager can overwhelm employees. One of Tim's friends was very transparent when considering selling his company. But he regretted doing this because ultimately it wasn't their decision. Tim took the opposite pathway and still feels conflicted about it.
17:50 Some good questions to ask yourself before sharing something: "How does it help them? Does this give them more agency?".
18:45 Tim has previously over-shared with employees about issues he was having with his peers. Which didn't help the employees and damaged company culture.
20:00 Even in a transparent culture we still want safety.
21:20 Transparency has to be a two way street. Our organisation and managers need to demonstrate the same level of transparency that they ask of their employees.
23:00 Our hosts break the fourth wall.
What about you, dear listener? What is some of your good, bad and ugly with regards to transparency? We'd love to hear from you!
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This week our hosts (both Gen X) dig into the differences between different generations of workers. There have been endless articles and presentations on topics like "How to work with Millennials".
But for Pilar and Tim there are inherent dangers in assigning behaviours to an entire group of people based on the year they were born. Whilst being the same age should mean we share some collective experiences, this doesn't always translate across other factors like geographical location, culture and our personal journey. But whether the differences come through age or stage of life or just life experience, there are benefits in bringing a mix of generations together in our workplaces.
00:10 mins Pilar and Tim discuss their dynamic of "peacemaker vs the cranky old man". And we learn about one of Tim's special skills.
2:00 Both our hosts are dubious about classifications that say that one huge group of people all operate in the same way. As always there are going to be exceptions and it is not enough to group people by age. Life experience, mindset and motivation can still be very different.
3:40 There is a distinction between shared experience and behaviour. e.g. growing up after the internet was a different experience to growing up before the internet. But Tim doesn't like translating this through to behaviour e.g. it isn't fair or true to say "Gen Z aren't motivated to work hard".
5:00 Cultural norms are an important factor. Some behaviours were acceptable for people growing up 40 years ago. But they aren't acceptable for kids growing up now.
6:00 The introduction of technology is interesting, for example Generation X grew up with landlines and then experienced mobile phones, internet and social media. That's a very different landscape to where they started.
7:20 Tim points out that while the pace of technology has increased, his grandparents generation still experienced a big technological shift when electricity was introduced into their lives.
8:10 Whilst the technology landscape and cultural norms might evolve, do people's fundamental desires really change that much? How much of a factor does opportunity play? Tim uses the example of his grandfather's loyalty to his employer and how much of that was because of his limited access to alternative jobs or careers. And whilst newer generations of employees might be seen to be less loyal, mass layoffs weren't as big a factor for the "loyal generations".
9:45 The demand for remote knowledge work might have been strong 50 years ago but the opportunity to work remotely wasn't there yet.
10:20 Tim suggests some of the supposed differences are driven by the jealousy of older generations towards the increased opportunities available to younger generations. Pilar of course sees the other side - perhaps older generations can't understand some behaviours because they haven't experienced it themselves. We develop and internalise beliefs based on our own experiences and the possibilities available to us.
13:00 Pilar got Chat GPT to create a summary of the different generations and their attributes: The Silent Generation, Baby Boomers, Generation X, Millennials, Generation Z, Generation Alpha. And she finds that Chat GPT is taking a very US or UK view of history. For example the Baby Boomer generation in the US experienced post World War II optimism. But during that period Spain was under a dictatorship!
16:15 Tim wonders how much of the "generational" behaviours are just about stage of life. e.g. Generation Z are said to value individual expression which makes sense given they are in their teenage years through to early 20's. Baby boomers probably also valued individual expression in their late teens and early 20's...
18:15 Our hosts date themselves through a series of stories of younger generations using technologies in ways they don't understand. It seems that using a mouse is a Generation X thing!
20:30 There are great benefits in having a mix of ages and generations working together. For example, digital natives should have a higher expectation of software interfaces than someone who was already working back when spreadsheets were invented. A fresh perspective can be a force for improvement.
22:00 Managers should recognise that there are differences and sometimes those differences are due to being born at a different time. But also to be wary of stereotyping. As always, a difficult balance for managers.
23:45 Our hosts close with some advocacy for the benefits that come via blending different age groups in the workplace.
What about you, dear listener? Do you feel like you match your "generational managers"? We'd love to hear from you!
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Pilar and Tim are back having a conversation about conversations. Following on from #66 which covered 1:1 conversations, in this episode they dive into group discussions. Facilitating a group adds another layer of complexity - for example giving more time to one person means less time for everyone else. And people behave differently in group conversations. There are more people to be mindful of, more rapport to build, more status to be won and lost.
And for managers it is a challenge. There is lots going on within the group dynamic - and in our own minds. We have to be aware of our own habits and those of our people, and even reassess our idea of the many forms worthwhile contributions and engagement can look like in a group.
00:10 mins Through her career in facilitation and leading groups Pilar has learnt that some people need time or a few attempts to get their point across. These people are hard to manage in a group conversation because if you want them to contribute to the conversation you have to make enough space for them.
4:00 Pilar suggests talking with them separately before the group conversation. If you understand what they want to communicate then you can use that in the larger discussion. For example, you can gently bring them to their point or help them by paraphrasing their thoughts. Sometimes when people don't feel understood they keep trying different ways to get their point across. Which can take time!
5:45 Tim proposes bringing them later into the discussion, after some of their points have already been covered, so they don't need to say as much. This can be a win-win if you get them to buy into this plan. By letting others contribute early on, engagement will increase throughout the discussion. And so if your "long talkers" are able to wait, their later contribution will have a greater impact because everyone is more engaged in what they are saying.
7:45 As someone who has orchestrated a lot of large group discussions online, Pilar has seen the good and bad of breakout rooms. One benefit is conversations can happen in parallel. Splitting the group for part of the time can be a useful in-person tool too.
9:00 Tim confesses that he gets a thrill out of being the lead in a big group discussion. Breakout rooms mean a smaller audience! Pilar reassures him that it's ok to enjoy that spotlight. As leaders we need to meet some of our own needs as well as the needs of our team. And we can still get joy from aspects like setting direction, bringing people back together and summarising for the group.
11:45 In-person meetings have logistical challenges to breakout discussions. It can be hard enough to book one meeting space for the time you need, let alone if you want to include several breakout spaces as well.
13:00 We can overcome some of the logistics by looking beyond the idea that a discussion has to be a large group all in a meeting room together at the same time. Smaller groups can meet beforehand, information can be shared in different mediums or distributed at different times, parts of the discussions can even be asynchronous. This can give opportunity to those who need time to digest information or those who don't want to talk in front of a large group.
15:30 Leaders will sometimes need to focus on their own contribution to a discussion. At times like these it's super helpful to have built capacity for others in the team to be able to run the meeting.
16:00 We can also think about how our people's traits might be helpful. Opinionated people can help start a discussion or the person who thinks out loud can run through the agenda.
16:50 When a group discussion gets close to an outcome, Tim can get overexcited and lose his balance.
18:00 The great Lisette Sutherland from Collaboration Superpowers taught Tim that if people don't speak in the first 5 minutes of a meeting they are significantly less likely to speak for the entire rest of the meeting. He tried to resist the thrill of being the first person to say an idea. Instead he found a new pleasure of holding back to see if, after everyone had made their contribution, he still had a unique contribution to make.
20:30 Pilar shares a story of a time she got her desired result just by waiting and letting the other people speak. This is a great skill to build in individual and group situations.
What about you, dear listener? What do you find hard with group conversations? We'd love to hear from you!
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Pilar and Tim have a meta conversation about conversations. Participating in a good conversation means we listen, we get to talk, we feel heard, we deepen our understanding of a topic and we build connection with the other person.
However not all conversations are created equal. Sometimes we are in a glorious free flowing exchange of ideas and other times we have internal dialogues about the conversation running parallel with the conversation itself.
"Am I talking too much?" or
"Are they talking enough?" or
"Is this conversation going the way I/they wanted it to?" or even
"Are they paying attention?"
Paying attention is important, let's not get too caught up in our meta thoughts that we forget to be present and attentive! As you can see, there is a lot going on. Luckily the Management Cafe is a safe space for deep thinking and discussion...
01:50 mins Managers should be paying attention to how things are flowing and they should avoid dominating conversations.3:45 Managers also need to be wary of dominating conversations. Especially because their direct reports might be deferential to them.
4:40 Pilar suggests that the person who initiates or leads the conversation is normally the one who pays closest attention to the dynamics. Tim agrees, but feels managers always have an additional responsibility to role model and encourage good communication. Not just so their own conversations go well, but also so that good behaviours ripple out through their teams.
7:25 Dominating a conversation doesn't necessarily involve talking a lot. And someone might talk a lot without wanting to dominate.
8:15 People also have their own habits and patterns they bring with them. For example, Tim has a tendency to "think out loud" and lose track of the conversation as he gets excited.
9:30 Conversations, regardless of what we are talking about, are always an opportunity to build relationships.
10:30 Tim shares how he used to shut down one of his direct reports who had lots of opinions. But over time he realised he valued their independent thinking and shutting them down was also limiting their contribution.
12:00 Pilar relates to this especially from her past as a theatre director. A director can't listen to everyone - the whole piece needs coherence.
13:15 This is a common tension: we want people to be engaged and interested but within reason. As managers we can carefully establish boundaries so people understand that whilst we value them and their opinion, it isn't the right time for their input just now.
15:00 Managers can set "rules of collaboration" so their teams understand the norms of behaviour. And this is the sort of meta stuff we're thinking about in conversations. Are the individuals and teams we manage behaving in the ways that we want? How can we encourage and reward good behaviours in their everyday actions and discussions?
16:30 Contribution or involvement can look different for different people. Maybe they take notes instead of talking. Maybe they listen until their thoughts are clear and then they start speaking.
17:00 Having everyone contribute to a conversation in terms of "time spent speaking" does not mean everyone had an equal contribution. Some people need 10 minutes, others only need 3.
18:45 Interesting things happen when we go against our default behaviour and see what changes.
19:55 Tim recounts a story of a CEO who would gradually move further and further back during a meeting. For him a successful meeting was one where he didn't need to say anything. Pilar highlights that this is the facilitator's role - to just guide the conversation.
22:00 We'll cover the dynamics of group conversations in a future episode
What about you, dear listener? How do you approach individual conversations? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/
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As managers we will normally have a peer network within our company. But occasionally we might experience problems that our in-house peer network can't help us with. For example, when the issue is with those same colleagues or our organisation itself. At times like this an external professional network can be invaluable.
In this conversation Pilar and Tim primarily talk about networks which can provide different forms of support such as showing a different perspective, learning from someone with more or different experience, getting greater clarity in your own thoughts through talking them out, or even just solidarity from someone who's suffered in a similar way.
No surprise that our hosts, who have never met in person, have both had success in building relationships and networks online. Over coffee they share some of the techniques that have worked for them to expand and sustain their professional networks.
00:30 mins Pilar calls back to our conversation about men's mental health at work to highlight that building a network outside your organisation can be a valuable strategy when you're struggling to be yourself at work.
1:25 Tim shares how external support network helped him when he was struggling and feeling isolated. These mutually beneficial relationships are much more positive and rewarding than his first conceptions of business networks - like "old boys networks" as a back channel for getting a job.
3:00 Pilar used to do a lot of networking to get work, but she approached it as reaching out to people she enjoyed talking to. She has found this led to relationships that were long-lasting and much more fun.
4:30 Things changed for Tim when he realised that he enjoyed being helpful. This brought him into contact with a lot more people, some of whom became a network.
5:30 Networking will mean different things to us at different points in our career and our lives. The key for Pilar and one of her strengths is how to sustain those relationships.
7:00 She shares some of the ways she has built networks and communities like the Virtual Team Talk Slack Group and a new writing community she is building.
9:00 Tim has been lucky in joining existing communities where his "being helpful" approach helped him integrate. He prefers this to transactional networking, where you are aiming for a particular outcome.
11:10 It is so helpful for managers to be able to talk freely with other people who have had similar experiences. Getting different perspectives and insights or even just solidarity is an enormous advantage when you are stuck, or caught up in your own thoughts and emotions. Tim references the Rands Leadership Slack community created by Michael Lopp as a place he's been able to get help outside of his workplace.
13:00 You don't want to wait until you're going through a really tricky situation before you start trying to find support. Building a good network takes time!
14:00 Companies could assign some of their learning and development budgets to encourage people to build their networks and learn outside their organisation.
14:45 As a shy person, Pilar has had success asking people to introduce her to others. Even her mum has made some great introductions for her!
15:45 Tim has found reaching out to people digitally has been really helpful. Especially so he had some familiar faces at a conference or event.
17:45 Donut calls can be an easy way to build connections within Slack communities. Tim meets several new people each month this way.
19:30 KLM, the Dutch airline, once piloted a program called Meet & Seat which let passengers choose people they wanted to connect with on a flight.
20:15 At various times in Tim and Pilar's friendship she's brought groups together. For example during Covid there were small "Coffee around the corner" groups Pilar created for Zoom calls which she and Tim both enjoyed.
21:00 Tim encourages listeners to have an open mind about what value they might get from meeting new people in a professional context and building relationships with them.
What about you dear listener? Do you go out to meet new people, and nurture those you've already met?
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Our hosts discuss the recent research by Jindi Mann into men's emotional experiences at work. It is easily downloaded as a pdf and it's freely available - no email signup or any hoops to jump through. They surveyed 55 male managers, primarily British and working in a mid to senior management role. The results show a surprisingly broad range of responses. Over coffee Pilar and Tim explore what it means to be a male manager. A big theme that emerges is that whilst 21st century corporate leadership has been dominated by men, men feel limited in how much of themselves they can bring to work.
Show notes:
00:30 mins Pilar shares how she came into contact with Jindi and his men's circles through her Facilitation Stories podcast (you can listen to Jindi and Pilar's conversation about facilitating dialogue spaces in episode 58)
4:45 The first section of the report (page 6) shows the emotions that men feel most often at work: frustration 33%, anxiety 24%, anticipation 22%, fear 22%, joy 20%, trust 16% and anger 13%. Tim is surprised how many of these are emotions he'd prefer to not experience at work (with a quick shoutout to Jeremy Dean's Emotional Culture Deck.). Pilar as always tries to see the bright side, but even she is worried after seeing the full range of responses as a word cloud (page 7).
7:45 Tim struggles to understand the irony that our workplaces have been so dominated by men, particularly at the most senior levels, and yet this same work environment creates so much unhappiness for male managers.
8:50 Many work cultures have become warmer and more inclusive but there is still a lot of room for improvement.
9:30 The second section talks about what men would like to be able to talk about at work: mental health, stress, insecurity and their personal life. Pilar and Tim speculate on whether these responses would be different with women. It's interesting to note how men want something quite different to the alpha male stereotype.
14:10 It feels like progress just for men to be sharing their emotional needs. Tim jumps down to section 6 which talks about what vulnerability means to men. The results are so polarising: Some men view vulnerability as strength and courage, whereas others see it as weakness and shame. What a cognitive dissonance it must create for this latter group when modern leadership practice encourages leaders to be vulnerable!
17:10 We've been rightly focussed on gender equality in the workplace and the world is changing. It's important that men also get some space to explore these changes. It's complicated, we still need so much to change but we need men to be a part of the solution. And understanding how men might struggle with the direction work is heading can help us all.
21:30 It's important that those with a natural affinity for emotional literacy and vulnerability are aware that not everyone finds it easy. For some men particularly it can be a real struggle and they have an easy out to default back to a "strong silent type".
23:30 Some of the actions proposed in the research include role modelling, safe spaces for conversations and greater psychological safety.
25:40 Tim shares that he and Duncan were lucky to work in an environment at Shield GEO that was 80% female. And amongst the many benefits they experienced, it was relatively easier to be expressive because it was a safe and supportive environment. Which brings us to another point of irony - that men might feel better able to express themselves at work if there was more diversity in management roles.
27:30 Tim thinks that men are secretly crying out for more gender balanced leadership.
What about you, dear listener? Do you think male leaders are finding it difficult to be themselves at work? We'd love to hear from you!
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Pilar and Tim discuss the fascinating article 3 Ways Our Brains Undermine Our Ability to Be a Good Leader by Cian McEnroe and David Rock at the Neuroleadership Institute. David's book "Your Brain at Work" was one of the first to bring brain science into leadership. In this latest research they argue that our basic brain behaviour can get in the way of our work as leaders. They go even further to suggest that the experience of leading can evolve our brains in ways that make it even harder to be a great leader.
This leads our hosts into a far reaching conversation debating big questions: Is leadership a natural human trait? Is modern leadership a different challenge to the leadership we have evolved for? Does climbing the leadership ladder diminish our capacity for empathy and connection? We dive into some statistics. And as a rare bonus, we have a disagreement between our co-hosts!
Show notes:
00:00 mins We open by discussing whether modern organisations and work practices have created new challenges for leadership.
2:00 The article says leaders often fail at three core areas: focusing on the future, being good with people and driving realistic results.
5:00 Tim struggles with the premise that we aren't wired for leadership. He thinks leadership is a default behaviour for humans.
6:00 Pilar views it differently - not everyone is wired for leadership and the way we lead now is a bit different to what we are wired for. Maybe our biological disposition is towards a more collective and collaborative form of leadership.
8:20 According to the authors 60% of new managers fail within the first 24 months. This is a staggering statistic!
10:50 As people become more powerful they also become more optimistic. This can lead to inflated expectations and setting unrealistic targets. Which creates a disconnect between the leaders and individuals who do the heavy lifting. Pilar sees a direct link between this phenomenon and the failure rates in "top down" change initiatives. Those at the top are seeing the world differently. But it's important for leaders to stay connected to those who are doing work at the ground level.
11:40 Our brains view power as a reward, so we get a positive reinforcement from becoming more powerful. Which explains why those who want to climb the ladder can prioritise acquiring power at the expense of performing their actual job.
14:00 We see plenty of examples of this power/reality disconnect in tech companies like Basecamp.
16:45 People often get promoted into leadership positions because of technical skills, not people skills. But people skills are crucial in leadership!
17:10 Neuro-imaging studies have shown that focussing on goals has a seesaw relationship to focussing on people. Pay attention to one and the other gets dialled down. Research also shows that as someone becomes more powerful, their goal focus becomes more dominant. The authors argue that when making decisions, leaders must often detach and view individuals as chess pieces instead of human beings. Tim disagrees, he thinks it's a risk, not a requirement. Part of the challenge of being a whole hearted leader is blending the hard requirements of goals with the very real human elements of our people. Tim likes the phrase used by Jerry Colonna to describe this balanced stance "strong back and open heart".
18:50 Managers who are just focused on results and not people have a 14% chance of being viewed as a great leader. The opposite path of "people not results" reduces the odds to 12%. The key is to be good at both, this gives a 72% chance of being a great leader. Tim gets very excited by the remainder - 2% of leaders have no social skills and ignore results but are still viewed as a great leader!
21:20 Back to the topic of detachment, Pilar remembers a CEO who was asked how they slept at night having laid off a lot of people. Their answer? "I think about all the ones who are staying". She likens it to doctors who can emotionally attach to every patient or they will burn out. Tim disagrees strongly, feels the best doctors are those who find a way to stay open hearted. It's very difficult to do but it makes a big difference. Which, Pilar reminds him, is the argument the authors have put forward!
25:40 One of the great gifts a leader can give their team is bringing a different perspective. Pilar has always viewed focusing on the future as a core part of the manager's role.
27:45 We shoutout the 27% of Americans who the researchers found "rarely or never" think about five years in the future. Our hosts are not fans of five year plans either!
What about you, dear listener? Do you agree that our brains can get in the way of our leadership practice? We'd love to hear from you!
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Action-centred leadership asks managers to juggle three priorities: the team, the task and the individual. and in this conversation Pilar and Tim discuss one-on-one meetings, one of the best tools that managers have to work on their relationship with an individual employee. Over coffee we talk about the nuances of this style of meeting and the myriad ways managers can benefit from them. Spoiler alert: Tim is a huge fan of one-on-one meetings.
Today's shows are full of links, and one or two analogies!
00:00 mins We open with Tim sharing that he's only ever had one-on-ones as the manager, never the employee.
2:30 According to the Fellow.app guide to one-on-ones you should factor in the frequency of your current work communication when setting the pattern of your one-on-ones.
3:45 Employees benefit from getting their manager's undivided attention. It feels good!
5:30 One-on-ones are particularly important for relationship building in a remote work environment, where a manager and their direct report are unlikely to "bump into" each other.
9:00 Managers can get lots of benefits from one-on-ones. It's a great place for coaching. And also for managers to dust off their technical knowledge and share it.
11:00 Tim enjoyed using one-on-ones to practice things he found challenging. Which leads to Tim sharing his "work is like a video game" analogy.
14:10 Pilar quotes from Redesigning Work by Linda Gratton where Tata Consulting found managers who initiated frequent one-to-one meetings with their team members had the highest performing teams.
14:50 Manuela Bárcenas wrote an amazingly comprehensive guide to one-on-ones for Fellow. Artemis Connection made a nice short video for how employees can get the most from them.
15:30 Even if managers don't love one-on-ones they are valuable and we need to find ways to be effective at them. Tim took a long time to feel comfortable and relied on the Know Your Team application to provide him with structure. And excellent question cards from the 1:1 starter pack and manager pack produced by Jen Dary at Be Plucky.
18:30 Having a regular one-on-one schedule is helpful to make sure that issues will be discussed.
19:40 The one-on-one is the direct report's meeting. They should get priority in setting the agenda and items for discussion. But the manager still needs to be prepared just in case the employee doesn't bring an agenda.
20:50 Tim found that when he was managing managers the one-on-ones were an important place to build alignment on big picture topics like strategy, culture and values.
22:45 It's easy to slip into operational mode. But much of the value in one-on-ones comes from it being a discussion space that is free from operational issues.
25:50 Just because it's not operational it doesn't have to be personal. There is still a lot that you can discuss. Which leads Tim to a new analogy: work is like a soap opera.
What about you, dear listener? Do you do one-on-ones? Are they valuable? We'd love to hear from you!
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Going deeper into their exploration of different leadership styles, and inspired by this article on the MindTools blog, Pilar and Tim look at the Emotional Leadership Theory pioneered by Daniel Goleman, Richard Boyatzis and Annie McKee. It ends up being another therapy session in the café as Pilar and Tim talk about their own preferences, strengths and weaknesses.
02:30 mins We step through the six styles of Emotional Leadership: Visionary (come with me), Coaching (try this), Affiliative (people come first), Democratic (what do you think?), Pacesetting (do as I do, now!), and Commanding (do what I tell you).
4:10 Tim likes that Emotional Leadership theory gives us permission to change styles to match the circumstances.
5:10 This theory is really about our connection to our team and the emotional impact of our behaviour on our team members.
6:40 Pilar thinks when people point to a "leadership crisis" it is code for wanting more visionary leadership. But as she points out, visionary is just one style among six. It doesn't work in all situations.
8:10 Applying the wrong leadership style can create an emotional or cultural debt which is hard to undo. So it's important that leaders think about the style they are using and it's impact on the team.
9:15 Tim feels drawn to the Coaching and Affiliative styles. He'd like to be better at the Democratic. Pilar feels the Democratic style of leadership is essential to integrating the team goals and output with the need to support individuals within the team.
13:25 The Coaching style has long timelines which can be great for helping people who are trying to change.
16:40 Tim diverts to a long rant about the visionary leadership style with particular focus on Adam Neumann at WeWork. Visionary leaders and their followers can get swept away with big plans and future goals and lose touch with the messy reality of right now. Pilar reminds us of a similar situation at Basecamp where visionary leadership lead to a big cultural mismatch within the company. The founders chose a hard reset via the Commanding style to regain control and lost a third of their staff in the process.
20:40 Pilar is comfortable in the Pacesetting leadership style. In particular she relates to the danger of jumping in to fix things instead of having the conversation with the person. She remembers switching from Democratic to Command when the more collaborative style hasn't worked. And she is strong at Affiliative leadership - although counterintuitively, she's also found that sometimes friction might improve the quality of the work.
23:50 Tim goes to Commanding leader when he's insecure or scared. And Pacesetting when he's stressed. Pacesetting can lead to burnout but for Tim it can also be symptomatic of it.
26:20 Pilar and Tim reflect on how therapeutic they are finding these discussions of styles and their own patterns.
What about you, dear listener? What emotional leadership styles work best for you? We'd love to hear from you!
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There are far too many leaders who don't really want to be managers. Given most workers cite their manager as their main reason for leaving a company, this is a big problem. It's hard to love your job when your boss hates theirs.
How do so many people end up as managers when they shouldn't? Who should be a manager? Is leadership a natural trait or a learned skill? It's a wide ranging conversation in the café today, including a rare disagreement between our co-hosts Pilar and Tim!
00:00 mins We open with a discussion about whether leaders are born or made and Pilar's answer surprises Tim.
2:30 Pilar shares a story about helping someone who had the skills to lead but lacked confidence.
4:50 Unfortunately leaders aren't always promoted due to their leadership skills. Which reminds Tim of a friend who's had a very successful executive career through knowing how to "play the game".
7:40 A big part of who gets management roles, and particularly who succeeds at them, is based on fit. Does your leadership style fit with what the company wants? Tim recounts his experience of being in a management role where his style was poorly suited to the company. And a time at a different company where it was well suited.
10:30 Oftentimes people wind up in management positions because they want a promotion and more money. But management is not just a promotion, it is a profession. If you don't want to be a good manager you will be a bad manager. And an unhappy one.
11:40 If management is the only growth path available to people, companies are incentivising some of the wrong people to become managers.
12:50 Shopify and other tech companies have promotion pathways that don't involve management. Often the founders are keen to stay in tech instead of being in a "people" role. This allows companies to still reward people who have valuable experience and technical ability but don't want to be a manager.
15:20 Pilar references the book "Corruptible: Who Gets Power and How It Changes Us" by Brian Klaas which says 34% of people aspire to a leadership position. It also claims that gene location 876 increases the probability of ending up in a position of authority by 25%.
16:50 Tim struggles to accept the idea of a "leadership gene", he's clearly team nurture. Pilar is team nature. (Kind of.)
19:50 Tim learns not to debate DNA with a biologist.
20:30 On the After Hours podcast hosted by two HBR professors, there was a story about doctors who moved into management roles and were unhappy at being removed from their former role. The podcast claimed the solution was to train them better, but Pilar disagrees: if someone doesn't want to be a manager, find another way of promoting them!
21:30 It's important that companies are clear about what being a leader means within their organisation. This helps them select better people as managers. It also helps those people better understand the manager role and decide if they want to do it.
What about you, dear listener? Do you think there are natural leaders? Or is it a learned skill? We'd love to hear from you!
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Continuing with our discussions on leadership frameworks, Pilar and Tim discuss John Adair's Action-Centred Leadership which was first introduced in 1973. Adair uses three overlapping circles to illustrate that effective leadership happens at the intersection of the task, the team and the individual.
And it is this deceptive simplicity which is a big part of the appeal. The model doesn't rely on a particular leadership style or organisational culture. Instead it reminds us that if we "zoom out" of our current situation we can identify which of the three areas needs our attention.
00:00 mins (yes, we went straight into it this time!) Pilar shares a story of when she applied Action-Centered Leadership at her theatre company. The model suggests we focus on leading on three different levels: the team level, the individual, and the task.
3:50 Pilar quotes Judy Rees: frameworks are helpful because "they direct our attention to something". As managers we rarely have all 3 focus areas in balance all the time. We can use the Action-Centred Leadership framework to guide us to the area needing the most attention.
5:00 Tim has tended to focus on individual and task while neglecting the team dynamic.
6:00 These 3 elements are interconnected and interdependent. If you try to shift one element it will inevitably also change the dynamic in the others.
10:00 Tim goes down a long rabbit hole talking about how management thought-leadership tends to show things as simple. But management is actually really hard and complicated. We speculate how this real world complexity would influence the menu and service in our Management Café.
11:30 Pilar recalls going to a training session which didn't have a set objective. Instead the facilitators asked the attendees what problems they needed to solve. She loved it, but noted that this approach didn't work for all attendees.
13:45 Prescriptive theory and processes are great in a book or training session. But when you get back to your actual job, things rarely play out the same way. People are unpredictable!
What about you, dear listener? What do you think of Action-Centred Leadership? Are there other leadership frameworks we should discuss? We'd love to hear about your experiences!
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Inspired by the article about leadership on the Asana blog, Pilar and Tim discuss Kurt Lewin's 3 leadership styles. In a seminal study conducted in 1939, groups of 10 year old children were given a craft task and assigned an adult leader using either an authoritarian, democratic or laissez-faire leadership style. They concluded that democratic leadership was the most effective.
Pilar and Tim share their experiences of these 3 styles and spend some time debating the laissez-faire and authoritarian styles. And whether there is a distinction between management and leadership. Pilar throws a few more models into the mix: Ken Blanchard's situational leadership and John Adair's Action Centered Leadership.
Ultimately our default style isn't going to suit every circumstance. We need to switch between styles to get the best results.
TIME CODED SHOW NOTES
01:30 min There can be times where the appropriate leadership style for a situation is one that we don't like. But our default style isn't going to suit every situation and team. And all styles have pros and cons.4:25 Pilar references Ken Blanchard's situational leadership model and how it encourages us to consider which leadership approach might work best in a particular situation.
5:00 Lewin classified 3 leadership styles: authoritarian, participative and laissez-faire. Tim has a reaction to calling something laissez-faire. But Pilar and the dictionary keep us on track.
7:20 Tim's a bit suspicious of drawing conclusions about workplace productivity based on how school children react to laissez-faire leadership.
8:50 If you have a really experienced and high performing team you should be able to be a bit laissez-faire. Tim has found being more authoritative can sometimes be helpful when dealing with an inexperienced person or team. But less so with experienced teams.
11:00 Pilar shares a story of her husband having a very laissez-faire manager and loving it.
13:30 Laissez-faire leader doesn't mean that you neglect the core tasks of management like setting priorities or providing support when your team needs it.
15:50 Jurgen Appelo said "Manage the system, not the people", it's the fourth principle of Management 3.0. A leadership approach will only work if the system is setup to support it.
18:30 Tim has struggled to adapt when his preferred style isn't what the team member needs.
19:15 Pilar introduces another model! John Adair's Action Centered Leadership says managers need to be balancing their attention between the task, individual and the team.
21:30 Part of the leader's job description is to take charge in difficult moments.
22:15 Authoritative leadership often brings up negative connotations.
23:15 We assume that adoption of a leadership styles is based on personality and the good intent of a leader. But it isn't always the case. This leads us to speculate about the difference between managing in a particular style because of your personal reasons vs managing in that style because it works best for the the task or individual or team.
What about you, dear listener? What is your default style? Do you ever use other styles? We'd love to hear about your experiences!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/ or tell us on Twitter - we are @managementcaf - Visa fler
