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Olympians Devin Logan and Caroline Claire are kindred spirits, finishing each other’s sentences and sharing a common passion for hucking themselves off jumps and poofing through powder pillows in the Little Cottonwood backcountry. So how did the two Long Island girls, seven years apart in age, find each other and make their way to Utah? The duo are now telling their story through the lens of filmmakers Sarah Beam Robbins and Iz La Motte in Kindred, set to premier this fall. Last Chair caught up with them on a bluebird day at Alta to hear their story.
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The red tram pulled out of the station, heading up to Hidden Peak on its seven-minute run. Perched along the front left window was the legendary Junior Bounous, looking down and surveying the ski runs he plotted out 53 seasons ago. From his base at the Lodge at Snowbird, the 98-1/2-year-old Bounous still gets out to Snowbird and Alta two or three days a week. In this historic interview, Ski Utah’s Last Chair spent a day at Snowbird with Bounous, who regaled us with stories of his nearly a century in the sport.
Born into a fruit-farming family in Provo, he was 11 when he received skis as a present. He soon found his passion. His life chronicles the history of skiing in Utah, from working with Ray Stewart at Timp Haven to his mentorship under the legendary Alf Engen and spending the summer of 1971 designing the runs at Snowbird for visionary Ted Johnson.
Under the guidance of Alf Engen in the 1940s and ‘50s, Bounous learned how to convey the love of skiing to others. He became transformative as a snowsports educator, helping to standardize teaching in an era where European instructors brought differing ideologies to education. Few have introduced more individuals to the joys of skiing than Junior Bounous. And it was Junior who helped introduce the world to powder skiing.
There’s a buzz in the tram line when Junior makes his appearance. Knowledgable Snowbird skiers recognize him instantly. And he’s quick to strike up a conversation.
Atop Hidden Peak, he pauses by the memorial bench dedicated to his ski mate and wife of over 70 years, Maxine. He still soaks in the panoramic view from Mt. Superior across the valley the the terrifying crease of the Pipeline Couloir on Twin Peaks, which he skied with his friend Jim McConkey.While recording Last Chair in Bounous room at the Lodge at Snowbird, it was mesmerizing to soak in the memorabilia on the walls. One framed article from SKI Magazine stood out from an early-’60s photo shoot by the legendary Fred Lindholm of Junior, Maxine (she’s the one way out front in the key photo), and friends skiing a massive powder bowl on the flanks of Utah’s Mount Timpanogos. Junior vividly recalls the helicopter dropping them off and then going back to Salt Lake City, leaving them a five-mile hike out after what was a glorious descent.
Skiing has brought immense happiness to the son of a fruit farmer from Provo. That joy has manifested itself in sharing the sport with others. As we skied down Chip’s Run, Junior had no issue taking the steeper drops versus cat tracks, simply checking surface conditions first. He happily posed for pictures. At one point, a ski patroller jokingly told him to slow down. It’s been 53 years since he built these trails, but you could still see the pride in his eyes. And he never stopped smiling all the way down.
Linking turns for Ski Utah photographer Chris Pearson, you could hear him singing with the rhythmic, melodic tones of his signature ba-dump … ba-dump … ba-dump, ba-dump, ba-dump with each pole plant.
If you want to bring some simple joy to your own skiing, listen to this episode of Last Chair. This is why we started skiing in the first place.
Here’s a sampling of skiing according to Junior:
The Origins of Powder Skiing
“Powder skiing really did start at Alta. However, we saw in European films as skiers going through powder in the early days, and most of it was a straight line and very little turning. Alta became known for skiing waist-deep powder and making turns. Now, the evolution took time because we were on stiff, narrow skis. Today, there are thousands of skiers with powder snow skis that were not in existence then.”
How Junior Was Tabbed to Design Snowbird
“Ted Johnson and I were friends from Alta's early beginning. He had asked me if I wanted to invest with him, and I said, ‘No, I don't have $20,000.’ I was in the national gelande contest at Alta, and Ted was there. And he said, ‘By the way, Junior, could we get you to come up and get the mountain ready to open for Snowbird?’ I knew it was going in, and I thought about it a little bit and I said, ‘Yes, I've got time. What do you want me to do?’ And he said, ‘I want you to handle the crews and get all of the runs designed and marked off and ready to open’. And so I went home and talked to Maxine. I called him, and I said, ‘Yes, when? When do I start?’ ‘Tomorrow,’ he said. I was taking this job for the summer only. But I started with topo maps in the architect's office and looked at the terrain. I had skied this terrain in the past from Alta. Coming across a Peruvian side was easy skiing. We had open runs; the Gad Valley side had thick pines and aspens and big willow trees that were 15 feet high. But anyway, first topo map, then heli-skiing and figuring out the runs. And then, after I was able to put all this on paper, we still had ten feet of snow.”
History of Ba Dump
“Ba dump entered into my teaching system. Number one is relaxing a student. Number two is rhythm. Rhythm is so important because skiing becomes a movement, not a left turn and a right turn. But it's linked together in a flow, we'll say. The rhythm building is taking the mind off of the student and giving them something to target or think about instead of what they're worrying about. And it's relaxing, as I say, and movement. But ba dump was more of a joke. However, it worked the same because the cadence of left right, left right did not work as well as ba dump, ba dump, because they were really mystified by why would you use words like that?”
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A big part of the history of skiing is the fellowship of ski clubs. And before you write it off as a thing of the past, meet the OurSundays Ski & Board Club. This started out to be a podcast on diversity, exploring OurSundays’ affiliation with the National Brotherhood of Snowsports. But it quickly became a celebration of why we all love to ski and ride – a culture shared by all.
Domeda Duncan and Mark Giles are two transplants to Utah. Domeda skied as a child in Detroit. The closest Mark came to the sport was on a jet ski in Florida. But as new Utahns, they both wanted to explore winter in the mountains on skis. After all, wasn’t that what Utah was about?
Ski Utah’s Discover Winter program provided that opportunity.
Born out of the Black Lives Matter movement in 2020, Discover Winter is now in its third season. Ski Utah made a unique decision to focus its diversity program on adults. Domeda and Mark are prime examples of how it has worked.
If you’re a longtime skier or rider, chances are that as much as you love the sport, there are aspects that you take for granted. Hang out with the OurSundays gang, and they’ll remind you that, at its core, skiing and snowboarding are about social engagement. It’s the sizzle of the bacon alongside the buttermilk pancakes in the Brighton parking lot as the first rays of sun glint off Milly. Or it’s karaoke after a joyous day on the slopes. As Domeda says, it brings out the best in all of us.
The new OurSundays club is now a part of the National Brotherhood of Snowsports, a nationwide organization of Black ski clubs that recently celebrated its 50th anniversary. Formed by Hall of Famers Ben Finley and Art Clay, it blossomed over the years with its Black Summit, widely known as the most fun week in skiing. Domeda’s own roots in the sport trace back to the Jim Dandy Ski Club, one of the founding programs of NBS.
Industry leaders, like Ski Utah, have long grappled with how to make the sport more inviting for people of color. We could all learn a few things from OurSundays. Listen in to this Last Chair conversation with Mark Giles and Domeda Duncan. It’s an enlightening look at why we all love the culture of skiing and snowboarding.
And if you run into Domeda on the slopes, ask her for that buttermilk pancake recipe. Now settle in for this episode of Last Chair.
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The spirit of the 2002 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City still resonates across the state. This July, there will be more cause for excitement as it’s anticipated that the International Olympic Committee may name Salt Lake City-Utah as the 2034 host for the Winter Games. To learn more, Last Chair gathered in the Governor’s Mansion to hear from Utah Governor Spencer Cox, Salt Lake City Mayor Erin Mendenhall, and SLC-UT 2034 Board Chair Catherine Raney Norman.
One of the key assets of Utah’s candidacy is its robust winter environment as home to the Greatest Snow on Earth™. Every venue from 2002, across all sports, has been in continual use. Resorts, including Park City Mountain, Deer Valley Resort, and Snowbasin Resort, are expected back again.
Through its candidacy, Utah has enjoyed strong public support – over 80%! Elected officials from small venue communities, up through the state legislature and governor, have forged a strong partnership to bring the Games back, with the accompanying benefits of bringing communities together.
Both Governor Cox and Mayor Mendenhall have been visionaries who are looking to the benefits to their state and community. Governor Cox grew up on a farm in Fairview, Utah, and talks about the small ski hill near his home. Mayor Mendenhall reflects back on her memories of growing up near Little Cottonwood Canyon and working the switchboard at Snowbird. Both are now outdoor enthusiasts who embody the spirit of the state.
With a background in air quality and environment advocacy work, the mayor started as an activist and learned quickly that she could be more impactful as an elected official. After six years on the City Council, she ran for mayor and won. She was just inaugurated for a second term. “Being the mayor is just the greatest gig – especially in Salt Lake City in the state of Utah at this time. We have so much good happening. And the Olympics in 2034 is one of those big things.”
Now in the third year of his first term, Governor Cox has announced he’ll run again in 2024. “It's been a wild ride from the farm to the governor's mansion in Salt Lake City. But we feel very fortunate to be able to serve the state.”
Catherine Raney Norman is a four-time Olympic speed skater who still holds some U.S. records. She grew up in Wisconsin, but has long lived in Utah. She and her family are enthusiastic skiers. In her role as board chair, she has brought a distinct athlete vision to her leadership.
Here’s a sampling from a riveting conversation on Last Chair with Utah leaders about the benefits of the Games and how they view the importance to the state and its communities.
Governor Cox, thank you for the invitation to the mansion. Tell us a bit about it?
This is the Kearns mansion – Thomas Kearns was a young man who came out here to seek his fortune. He hit the motherlode – a silver mine in Park City. He came down with his amazing wife, he married a seamstress from Park City, and they built the first orphanage in Utah, which is amazing – St. Ann's orphanage, same architect, beautiful building. Then, he helped build the Cathedral of the Madeleine. They were so generous. This house was built in 1902.
Catherine, you not only competed as an Olympic athlete, but you also rose up early on as a leader amongst your peers.
I've spent a lot of my pre-post and athletic career advocating for athletes across the Olympic and Paralympic Movement, and have been so fortunate to stay involved in sport in many different ways, from coaching to administration to fundraising, and to now being able to help serve our community and our people here in Utah as the chair of the Salt Lake City-Utah Committee for the Games.
Mayor, there are 11 Utah ski resorts within an hour’s drive of downtown Salt Lake City. What do you see as the assets of your city as a ski town?
I think it's something you have to experience. People come here to ski, and they end up not leaving. They say, ‘we're going to come spend four months or six months, get some great experience on the mountain, then go back wherever we came from.’ They don't leave. And it's because you can actually call it a ski town. We’re the capital city of the fastest-growing state in the nation, the state has the strongest economy. I'm giving the governor's talking points now, but more than 16 years running, we're doubling our downtown population. We have incredible sports, culture, recreation, and amenities. You can walk out of this Governor's Mansion and be on a foothill trail in the wilderness up in City Creek Canyon, or other places in ten minutes. The proximity to the ski resorts and to year-round recreation is just phenomenal. So we are both an urban capital, a growing city, a strong economy, lots of cultures celebrating our diversity, and a ski town.
Governor, what importance does the Olympic and Paralympic Movement bring to you?
I love the idea of hope at a time when institutions are being torn apart, really important institutions, politically and otherwise, not just here, but all across the world. And as we start to become a little more selfish as human beings and focus internally, this reminds us of the best of us and that there are other people of different backgrounds, and it brings us together. It's one institution that has survived some of the worst parts of history. I just watched Boys in the Boat and the Olympics in Germany at that time and, the impact that those Games had on the world as we were heading into a World War and all of these difficulties that had post 9-11 when Utah was at the forefront. So I love that idea of hope and kind of unifying, bringing people together.
Mayor, how does the city feel about the possibility of another Winter Games to your community?
What we experienced in 2002 is still with us every single day. As Salt Lakers, as Utahns, we have a growing population. We've added 20% more people to Salt Lake City proper since we hosted the Games last, and we still have over 80% support in the state of Utah for hosting a future Games. What that says is that even people who've come here who maybe hadn't been born yet (in 2002) feel and they get the Olympic spirit, it's in our DNA as Utahns. And that ability to bring the global community together – we will ensure that it does have a long-standing daily positive impact for generations to come after 2034.
Governor, how has Utah’s penchant for service and volunteerism helped?
One of the things that that Cat, the mayor and I love to talk about is how the volunteers came out of the woodwork for that Olympics the first time – the Olympic movement had never seen anything like that. had to turn volunteers away. It's ingrained in people. We lead the nation in volunteerism and giving back. That combination of us participating together, not just something we watched or saw, but we experienced – that makes a big difference and has really helped us to unify.
Mayor, you had the honor of dedicating a brand new airport in the past few years?
Our New SLC is one of the busiest airports in the Americas in the Delta system. We have 26-million passengers a year. When this airport is completed, we'll be able to host 34-million passengers a year through Salt Lake City. The amount of direct and connecting flights is ever-increasing, and it's the newest airport in a couple of decades. It's an incredible, beautiful space, and we're proud of it. It's just minutes away from the...
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The Christmas blizzard of 2003 still ranks as one of the biggest winter storms in Utah’s history – legendary enough to have its own Wikipedia page. It dumped four feet of snow in the valley and upwards of twice that in the mountains, closing resorts. But it also brought tragedy. On Dec. 26, 2003 an entire mountainside of snow broke off the flanks of Mt. Timpanogos, roaring down out of the clouds towards a dozen skiers, riders, hikers, and snowshoers. Five were buried, with three not making it home that evening.
Just three years into his forecaster career with the Utah Avalanche Center, skier Craig Gordon was deeply troubled by what he had seen. The victims simply didn’t know that their playground for the day, just above the Aspen Grove trailhead, was in a massive avalanche run out. So he decided to do something about it, creating the now ubiquitous educational program Know Before You Go.
What Gordon and others realized was that we all live amidst snow-filled mountains, but there was no way to get the message of snow safety to youth and teens. In its first season, Know Before You Go reached over 10,000 students in local middle and high schools across Utah. Today, it’s the staple introductory snow safety program not just in Utah but across the nation and even the world.
It’s just one of the many programs Utah Avalanche Center manages to help keep us safe. Whether you’re an avid backcountry enthusiast or limit yourself to in-bounds action, UAC has education and information to help keep you safe.
A New Jersey native who found his way out to Utah to attend college and soon found himself working in snow safety at Brighton and as a heli-ski guide. He joined UAC in 2000. Today, he’s part of a deeply experienced team and is known around the state as the guy who makes avalanche safety education fun.
This episode of Last Chair is quintessential Craig Gordon – complete with stories, humor and emotion. Dig in … it’s a fun one! Here’s just a sampling.
Craig, how do you view the services that Utah Avalanche Center offers?
We're best known for our forecasting – we're your one-stop shop, Utah Avalanche Center.org. But forecasting is just a segment of education. And to me, really, the forecasts are an educational tool. Any time I have the opportunity to share knowledge and to throw an anecdote or two and maybe throw some institutional knowledge and wisdom in, along with some tongue-in-cheek humor, yeah, now, this is sort of where the rubber hits the road. To me, it's all about education. And the more well-informed our user public is, the more they can get out of the Utah Avalanche Center forecast. The forecast is really designed in sort of a tiered approach, from beginner to intermediate, novice to expert to uber expert. You can gain something out of reading the forecast day-to-day and reading it each day. You get to know the characters in the snowpack. And you know, the last thing you want to do is open up the middle of this book, this novel and try to figure out who the characters are. So I always advise people, even on the days that you're not planning on going out, definitely take heed, check out the forecast, and see what the snow is doing. And then, when you do get a day off, or you're making your travel plans, you'll be that much better informed. So, really, to me, education is where the rubber hits the road. For us, that's the big ticket item. And that is not only in our forecasts, that is in our outreach and our classes, our backcountry 101, our basic avalanche classes, our rescue classes. It all revolves around education.
The Christmas storm of 2003 brought snow, but it also brought tragedy.
Yeah, oh my gosh, that time frame right around Christmas of 2003 brought an epic storm by all standards – historic storm rolls bigger than last year. As a matter of fact, this the Christmas storm of 2003 has its own Wikipedia reference. The storm rolls in right before Christmas and just blasts the Salt Lake Valley, Provo, Ogden. There are 30 inches of snow in downtown Salt Lake, several hundred thousand people are without power. I remember it's all I can do to get to the foothills to go skiing. It is complete mayhem just to go a mile or two. So there were three groups that had been riding at Sundance inside the ski resort boundary. The resort closes down, and these three individual groups – they don't even know each other – they ride up the road, and they're at the Aspen Grove trailhead, which is underneath one of the largest avalanche paths in Utah that funnels off Mount Timpanogos. Of course, you're going to go hike for the freshies, right? And no one's wearing avalanche transceivers, no shovels, no probes, none of the appropriate rescue gear. And as three separate groups are hiking up, one natural avalanche peels off from about 3,000 plus vertical feet above off the ridge in the clouds. So everything is just is just chaos as one slide, then sympathetically triggers two others. And now, instead of having just one football field, you have several football fields of snow crashing down from up above.
I know even 20 years later, it’s still emotional. But you chose to do something about it?
It was so glaringly apparent how dangerous the conditions were. And again, just trying to move around in the valley, it's like it's all I can do to get to the mountains. So I'm going to the mountains on its terms, and it doesn't even want me there, you know. So this is not, you know, kind of a soft, fuzzy kind of place to be right now. It's very harsh. It's very wicked. That night, I looked my wife in the eye, and I said, ‘I am going to do everything in my power that not another family, not another partner, not another parent has to experience the tragedy of what could be a preventable avalanche accident.’I said, ‘Well, I am going to create a program where we go talk to kids in schools and middle schools and high schools.’ (My boss Bruce Tremper) says, ‘You put it together, you find the money, and it's yours.’ And I thought, ‘Man, you just challenged a go-getter overachiever who grew up in New Jersey. Man, I got this. At the time, nothing like this existed. There was nothing that was fun, that had energy to it, and that could resonate with teens.
What was the reception like when you launched Know Before You Go into Utah schools?
One of our very first talks was in front of 1,600 kids. And it was remarkable. It wasn't like some soft rollout. It was like you hit the ground running with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards and the Rolling Stones, and here we go, you know? And man, for that kind of crowd you had to have a touchpoint with everybody in the audience. And that meant giving out a thousand times the energy that was coming back. That was the secret of the success of the program.
Did you reach a lot of kids with KBYG?
In our first year, I thought, man, if we could reach 5,000 kids, that would be remarkable. And the first year the thing took off like a rocket. We talked to 12,000 kids, and in the second year, we talked to 18,000 kids. By the start of the third year, we were able to get Know Before You Go embedded as an elective in health and phys ed in middle schools. And then everybody started coming on board. The Park City schools were awesome to get us embedded early on. The snowbelt community schools knew that this was very important.
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It’s early season at Alta. OpenSnow forecaster Evan Thayer has left his meteorological screens in the hotel and is bashing his way down some fresh powder under the Collins chair. Life is good. If there is anyone we tens of thousands of Utah skiers owe a ‘thank you’ to, it would be Thayer, a weather nerd who hadn’t really planned his career path this way, but is thankful his former powder alert email list has turned into life as Utah’s snow forecaster.
The tools we have today to forecast weather are quite remarkable. The data availability and the scientific knowledge to analyze it are stunning. And that’s what Thayer does every morning, beginning at 4:00 a.m., crunching numbers, studying maps and putting out a meaningful forecast by the time we’re packing the SUV with skis at 7:00 a.m.
Thayer is making his third appearance on Last Chair here in season 5. He was the episode 3 guest in the debut season of the podcast back in December 2019.
In this episode, Thayer dives back into his past, growing up with a passion for weather going to CU-Boulder to study and ski, and finding his way to the Greatest Snow on Earth here in Utah.
It’s an insightful episode that explores his past and the popular weather app OpenSnow.
Well, Evan, how was your birthday at Alta?
Every early season I like to do a little staycation in Little Cottonwood Canyon. So I had a little birthday staycation at Gold Miner's Daughter. I knew there was a big storm coming. I knew I could get a room for a reasonable rate. And rather than deal with getting up early and getting up the canyon, it's kind of nice to wake up to fresh snow up there in Little Cottonwood Canyon, roll out of bed, get some breakfast, and just trundle out to the lifts.
Were you a weather nerd as a kid?
I was always a weather nerd. I was the kid who, back in the days prior to having internet, would set a cooking timer so I could run inside from playing with my friends and see the local on the eights on the old Weather Channel because that's when you could see the local radar.
You were in the early group of forecasters when OpenSnow was formed. How has it evolved?
It's grown a lot. It started as mostly three regions, and now we have, I don't know, 15 to 20 forecasters around the world writing daily snow forecasts. We've grown the product itself to have all sorts of different maps and overlays and different features you can use. Last year we launched Forecast Anywhere, which was a huge undertaking, but it allows a user to click on any point in the world and get the same quality forecast that you would get for, say, Park City or Alta. For any point in the world. You can see an hour-by-hour forecast for the next ten days.
How has that expanded the usage?
We have evolved as an app where I think traditionally it was all about powder – it was all about skiing. And if you ask me what I care about, what's the most important to me? I'll still say powder and skiing. But people are using the app now for all sorts of different things in the summer. They're using it for their hiking trips. We have trail estimated trail conditions that tell them whether it's a muddy trail, a snowpacked trail, or a dry trail. So if you're planning biking trips, hiking trips or backpacking trips, you can use it for that. We have smoke overlays. So in wildfire season, and how that's going to affect the air quality. We are working to forecast that to make sure you have, again, all the information you need to get out and enjoy nature.
OK, what about the whale?
That's a great question. The whale is unknowable. All I know is that they installed that on April 1st, 2022, after that moment, it started snowing and it felt like it never stopped. So I can't explain it. So I'm not going to question it. I'm just going to accept that there's a higher power in that whale and just go with it.
How can you take advantage of modern forecasting along with the depth of knowledge of weather gurus like Evan Thayer? Take a listen to this episode of Last Chair.
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Head to any Woodward Mountain Center and you’ll immediately be drawn to the kids in the Jib Park and Peace Park pushing themselves to new heights. Since Woodward’s humble beginning over 50 years ago as a gymnastics camp in Pennsylvania, progression has been central to its mission. Today, Woodward centers span the globe including Utah’s Woodward Park City. In this episode of Last Chair, we catch up with a legend in action sports, Chris “Gunny” Gunnarson. Now the president of Woodward globally, Gunny’s three decades in action sports has paralleled the dramatic growth from surf to skateboard to snowboard to ski.
Beginning at Snow Summit and Big Bear in southern California, Gunnarson quickly became a leader in the sport from building snow terrain for the X-Games beginning in year one, to crafting private training venues that sent athletes like Shaun White on to olympic gold. Along the way, he built a reputation as a leader in progression with his company Snow Park Technologies and a capable partner with resorts, ultimately helping the world’s greatest athletes achieve pinnacles of success in their career.
And while his career has been marked by relationships with the greatest athletes, Gunnarson is quick to point out that what’s central to his own mission is to bring that experience to enthusiasts of all ages and ability levels. Today, he leads Woodward on a global journey to provide fun and progression for all.
As a boy growing up in SoCal in the ‘60s and ‘70s, he was immersed in the cultural revolution of action sports. His life was centered around skateboarding and a little surfing. But when he discovered snowboarding at 13, he used every angle to get up to the mountains and ride on snow.
Here’s teaser of Gunny’s Last Chair interview, which takes you back into the origin years of the culture of snowboarding and tracks you through the impact Woodward is making with people of all ages.
Let’s go back to the beginning – YOUR beginning!
Oh man, how I got involved in sport. I mean, I think I was around five when I got on a surfboard. I know I was seven when I got on a skateboard and I had a bike like every other kid in the neighborhood. And I heard about snowboarding when I was 13. In fact, for my 13th birthday, my dad took us up. I lived in San Diego, so I grew up in the southern California hotbed of board sports. And it was funny. My mom and dad were like, oh, snowboarding? You know, we used to ski before you were born and I didn't even know what skiing was, really. And so we get up to the local mountain and they were like, ‘no snowboarding allowed.’ We had rented some boards from the local surf shop. I rented a Chuck Barfoot board and they were like, ‘no snowboards allowed.’ My dad got so angry and he's like, ‘I used to ski here all the time. What do you mean no snowboards allowed?’ And so we ended up just … we had rented a cabin with a couple of my buddies for my 13th birthday to go snowboarding, trying to figure it out, you know, falling a lot just on this back hill. And I knew right then and there, like, I have got to figure out a way to do this for the rest of my life. And somehow I lucked out.
So you must have had some good skateboarding roots in SoCal?
Well, it was kind of all I knew. And, you know, sort of in my high school teen years, I was living up in the outskirts of LA, so I was skating swimming pools. There was a big earthquake in Northridge, and there were lots of empty swimming pools. We had maps of pools from condemned buildings and houses. And so we'd show up with buckets, mops, and we would skate all these different pools. I think we skated Tom Petty's pool at one point. It was like a condemned house that he'd owned or something like that. But that was my whole life and culture was skating and a little bit of surfing, but mostly skateboarding and trying to find as many pathways to get up to the mountains as possible.
Were your business wheels turning yet in your mind?
Honestly, not even a little bit. At that point, it was just living life, having fun and trying to skate as much as possible.
What was your first job in the industry?
I've had a lot of jobs in my lifetime, but my first job in the industry was at Snow Summit in Big Bear Lake. I was fresh out of high school, and I was going to try and make it as a pro snowboarder, get whatever job I could on the mountain, and, funny enough, I got a job with the patrol at Snow Summit at the time. Being based right in Southern California obviously was right in the middle of what I'll call boardsport Mecca, except they weren't quite there yet. And so I get this job as a snowboarder, but on patrol, thinking, ‘oh, I'm just going to, you know, snowboard a lot.’ But I actually ended up really loving patrol and really loving resort operations – becoming a sponge and learning everything I could. They were a very progressive thinking resort ski resort, and they were just starting to launch terrain parks, and none of the other patrol guys wanted to deal with the terrain parks.
Was there a turning point for you when you saw your career as a terrain park developer come to light?
Over time, that was a real paradigm shift. The terrain park movement, which really was born out of Big Bear, also was a paradigm shift in the entire world of winter sports in the sense that right there in Southern California, it was meeting a market need. But as it became a broader national interest of how do we deal with these rowdy snowboarders and contain them? And now there's freestyle skiers that want to do the same kind of stuff – like we should just give them their own venue to do that kind of stuff and keep them in a little contained area so they don't screw with the rest of the mountain operations. But who knows how to do this kind of stuff? And that is actually when I saw a business opportunity.
Gunny, what was it that motivated you to bring your lifelong action sports skills and knowledge to Woodward, now serving as global president?
I've known of Woodward virtually my entire career – I mean, you can't be in this in the action sports universe without knowing what Woodward is. You know, it's got a 53-year legacy. I was super intrigued when I learned that Powdr, a ski resort company, had bought Woodward because, you know, everybody knew Woodward as a camp out in Pennsylvania. And it was the Holy Land. Like, if you were going to be a competing skateboarder, BMX athlete, that's where you went. And so when Powdr bought Woodward, I was certainly paying attention from afar. But to answer your question – there I was, life was good, I owned my own company, I had my own TV show. And the folks at Powdr came and said, ‘hey, we want to talk to you about you coming in and helping us figure out how to best propel Woodward from where it currently is.’ And I left it all. I moved to Park City, Utah from Truckee.
Talk about progression and why it’s important to Woodward?
Humans want to fly. They want to move. They want to move their bodies. They want to challenge themselves. All the way from the youngest ages – you can hear the kid right behind me. He's jumping on the trampoline. He's figuring out how to move his body in the air, whether he's doing a backflip or just monkeying around. We have zone coaches. We have an entire array of different types of programming, from casual, easy, fun all the way to very focused clinics and training so that people can get better. It's human nature to want to get better, whether you're a golfer or a swimmer or whatever yo...
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Thinking back on it today, X Games champion Alex Schlopy still shakes his head. A homegrown product of Park City, Utah, in a month-long span in 2011 he won an X Games title in Aspen, became a world champion on his home hill at Park City Mountain and soared to Dew Tour gold in Snowbasin. In a roller coaster decade that saw the highest of highs and lowest of lows, today Schlopy is the happiest he’s ever been – an athlete ambassador for Ski Utah and looking forward to his first runs off Jupiter in the season ahead.
Schlopy was born to athletic parents. His mother, Holly Flanders, was a U.S. Ski Team downhill star. His father, Todd Schlopy, played in the National Football League. His uncle, Erik Schlopy, was a Hall of Fame U.S. Alpine Ski Team star.
In the mid to late ‘00s, Utah was the epicenter of the burgeoning new sport of freeskiing. Schlopy caught the buzz from his buddy Joss Christensen. They idolized stars like Tanner Hall and Simon Dumont. At just 17, Schlopy went to the Dumont Cup in Maine, outlasting over 100 amateurs just like him who wanted a shot into the event. He got it, launching a switch right double cork 1440, and soon found himself on the podium with his buddy Joss and future legend Tom Wallisch.
The next season he cranked out win after win and found himself on top of the world in a new sport that was to make its Olympic debut in 2014. Then it all came crashing down.
This interview is deep and emotional, coming full circle to the joy of skiing. Here’s a teaser:
You're still having fun skiing?
Oh, yeah. More fun than ever.
Going back to your youth, what role did gymnastics play in your skiing success?
Gymnastics has helped me throughout my whole entire life. And I think for any kid out there, having a baseline in gymnastics is huge. Just knowing how to use your body, learning how to flip and do all those things safely.
What triggered your interest in freeskiing?
When I transitioned into middle school, I met Joss Christensen and we started hanging out just as friends. He started showing me all these freeski movies with, you know, Tanner Hall, Jon Olsson, Simon Dumont. And I was like, what is this? I saw ski racing. I've seen moguls and aerials and I loved all that stuff, but this was the one that really clicked. It was artistic expression on skis. And I thought that was really cool.
What role does Park City, Utah play in winter sport?
I mean, this is the Mecca for that in my eyes. There's just so many kids out here learning how to do whatever winter sport they want and then having the facilities and the programs to push it as far as they want. And it's just a beautiful community.
After the stunning 2011 season, what path did your career take?
After winning those three events, X Games, World Championships, Dew Tour and then kind of stepping into that pro realm, big contracts started to come up and I kind of lost my drive to win. And I think that was my biggest problem. I hadn't really built the best work ethic. I had used a lot of natural talent my whole life, you know, and having overcome some of those injuries that really helped out. I didn't have to work as hard to get back, but it came to bite me after I did win, because I started to coast and I started partaking more in the party side of the sport. I was still doing okay. You know, I was able to stay top five, top ten, but I wasn't winning. And what it took for me to refocus was the announcement that the sport that we were getting into the Olympics for Sochi and I had a lot of ground to make up.
In 2014, you missed that last spot on the Olympic team to your buddy Joss Christensen, who went on to win gold.
It was a really beautiful yet bittersweet experience because Joss is one of the best people I've ever met in my life. He's incredible. I thought he was the best skier. He just couldn't put it down when it counted until that point. And he went and did it. So it was really cool. But behind the scenes, I was starting to struggle after that and watching him in the Olympics and my friends – it was like all that work I had just put in and I'd really changed my life quite a bit to make that happen and get that close. It shut off pretty quick and I started falling.
You’re a few years past rehab and drug court. How did it help you get your life back?
It's life changing.They always say, you know, addiction is like a broken brain and that means a broken person. So, how do you rebuild that? I mean, it's like your best chance because you can't rebuild everything in a short period of time. So there's something really beautiful about the recovery process.
What's the sickest ski run that you've ever taken in Utah?
Tiger Tail at Snowbird – lapping that last winter. It was endless smiles and joy.
There’s plenty more from Ski Utah athlete ambassador Alex Schlopy! Buckle up for this episode of Last Chair as he takes us through the highs and lows of his career, finding sobriety and the sheer joy he feels today when he’s up on the mountain all for himself. <link>
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It was a typical day at the USANA Center of Excellence in Park City, Utah as Olympic and Paralympic athletes were sweating it out on the training center floor, preparing for their winter competition seasons ahead. Sophie Goldschmidt, the president and CEO of U.S. Ski & Snowboard, talked to Last Chair from a meeting room looking out at some of the greatest ski and snowboard athletes in America.
The U.S. Ski Team moved to Park City in 1974, initially setting up shop in the old Silver King mine buildings at the base of what is now the Bonanza six-pack at Park City Mountain. Today, the team is based at the USANA Center of Excellence with elite skiers and riders from across America making their training home in Utah. The centerpiece training center is just a short distance from sport training facilities including Soldier Hollow, the Utah Olympic Park and a host of ski resorts.
Goldschmidt came to the team in 2021, just prior to the Beijing 2022 Olympics. A modern sport leader, she honed her management skills working for global retailer adidas, helping grow the NBC in Europe and Africa and running the World Surf League.
Today, oversees one of the largest and most complex of the 50+ Olympic organizations in America with programs touching on XX different ski and snowboard sports programs – and now also included Paralympic sport.
Last Chair covered myriad topics with Goldschmidt from her global experience to funding a team with no government support and, of course, the stars of skiing and snowboarding.
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The 2022-23 ski season was the biggest on record in Utah! So, just how big was the snowfall? And what’s the science behind it all? Last Chair got together with Professor Powder himself, Jim Steenburgh, along with KUTV2 meteorologist Chase Thomason to review the records and share their own stories of skiing and riding Utah’s Greatest Snow on Earth.
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Over the past few years you’ve probably noticed the brand Stio on the slopes. Born in the Mountain West, the company has become known for its extensive colors and a serious focus on technical materials that are sustainable. Last Chair did a visit with Stio Senior Materials Manager Sandy Flint to learn more about its products, which are both revolutionizing outdoor clothing performance and utilizing technology which is more friendly to the environment we all love so much.
Stio was founded in 2011 by Mountain West native Stephen Sullivan, who had previously started the Cloudveil brand. Stio quickly became known for its focus on core technical apparel, fun colorways and direct-to-consumer sales. Today, the company has its own Stio Mountain Studios at major resorts across the west, including Utah on Park City’s historic Main Street.
Flint grew up in the Northeast, skiing around New England and taking family trips out west. “It was the mountains I loved – being able to hike, raft and ski.” He went to college in Colorado, then moved to Utah, teaching skiing at Solitude. With a degree in engineering and a background in art, he found his way into a graduate program studying fiber science and apparel design at Cornell. The combination of those technical skills with his passion for art landed him at Stio.
What you quickly learn in talking to Flint is his passion for sustainability, and knowledge of how to find that pathway. Most of all, you learn that he’s not alone, working at a company focused on the future. Today, preferred materials comprise 48% of Stio's collection and the brand has a goal to meet 75% by 2025.
We also learn that sustainability is about more than just raw materials. It’s an accounting of everything the company does from travel to manufacturing to shipping to recycling. Everyone in the company is accountable!
In this episode of Last Chair, Flint dives deep into the science and history of membranes and other materials. One of the most notable transitions is the evolution from the polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)-based Gore-Tex of the past to environmentally-friendly ePE membrane that is per- and poly-fluorinated chemical (PFC) free.
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The Ski Utah Last Chair podcast takes a ride all the way up to Solitude and Brighton in Big Cottonwood Canyon with UDOT Cottonwood plow driver Shawn Wright. A veteran drive, Wright takes us up in a snowstorm riding shotgun in a 30-ton Mack plow truck as he talks about the life of a plow driver and how exhilarating it can be riding the canyons in the dark at 4:00 a.m. on snow mornings.
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Utah gets a lot of snow! And as skiers and riders, our objective is to get up to the resorts as quickly as possible. But who takes care of that 30 inches of snow that fell overnight? And who mitigates that cornice hanging a thousand of feet above the highway? Last Chair took a ride with the Utah Department of Transportation Cottonwoods plow team, talking with Jake Brown and riding with Shawn Walker on a snowy Big Cottonwood morning.
It’s just 13 miles up Little Cottonwood to Alta, 20 through Big Cottonwood to Brighton. But it’s some of the toughest snow terrain in the world. Little Cottonwood Canyon alone has nearly 70 notable avalanche paths which can easily take out a car or plow truck (yes, it has happened).
When you walk into the plow shed tucked away in Cottonwood Heights, you are immediately struck by the enormity of the equipment. A fleet of 10 Mack trucks is complemented by two graders, two enormous snow blowers (and not the kind you use on your driveway), a couple snowcats and a handful of huge pickup trucks. Plus, there is an assortment of blades including a pull-behind that can add huge plow power behind the 35-ton Mack trucks.
Brown got his start simply applying to a newspaper ad for plow drivers 22 years ago. He was working I-15 for UDOT when after work on a Friday he was told to report to the Cottonwood Canyons two days later to take over a new role. “My first day here was a storm and I got baptized by fire on what it would be like in the Cottonwood Canyons and never looked back,” he recalled. “I’ve enjoyed every minute of it.”
Shawn Wright is a Utah native who loves what he does. On a leisurely pre-dawn run up Big Cottonwood, he talks about his love for the state and its recreational resources. He chuckles as he talks about all he and his family do out in nature – “everything but skiing or snowboarding.”
Jake and Shawn are typical of the men and women behind the plows. It takes a certain passion to report to the plow shed at 4:00 a.m. to open a road for skiers and snowboarders to get up the canyons.
In this episode of Last Chair, you’ll learn about the challenges and the dangers. You’ll hear about trucks getting swept off the road by massive avalanches coming down from thousands of feet above. And you’ll hopefully gain an appreciation for what these crews do for us.
If you’ve ever driven up Big or Little Cottonwood Canyon in a snowstorm, this podcast is for you. And even if you’ve dreamed about it! Listen in as Last Chair takes you behind the scenes with the UDOT Cottonwoods Plow Team. <<LINK TO PODCAST>>
Here are a few snippets to get you started:
Jake, what is it that you and your team do?
Our role is to orchestrate and schedule the plows up and down the canyon and also take care of the freeway and all the roads leading to the canyons, basically all the state routes. So our responsibility is to make sure that we have enough people for the heavy equipment and the plows and to make sure that we have enough salt and and make sure that everybody's up and and going and need where they need to be and take on the storm. So we become a weatherman and a kind of a jack of all trades.
As a plow driver, what have you seen change in the canyons?
Well, we have a canyon road and we have great resorts and we have the Greatest Snow on Earth. And a lot of people like to come to Utah for that reason. And besides minor changes, we really haven't done anything to the road in the last 10 to 20 years. And so we were getting higher traffic volumes. More people wanted to come ski, the resorts were getting more people that wanted to ski their terrain. And so we had to change with it. We had to adapt some of our ways. We did things where we plowed, some of the traffic safety devices, different things such as islands, high-T intersections. We had to install them to make sure that people could flow out of the canyon and people didn't get stuck in traffic because we do have such a high avalanche area in the Cottonwoods.
How dangerous is Little Cottonwood Canyon?
There are 62 slide paths that can hit the road at any time in Little Cottonwood Canyon. And we've seen a lot of those run. I was actually buried in an avalanche with our communications manager in our pickup truck at Seven Turns. We were up there hauling a snow cat getting ready for avalanche control work that morning. And an avalanche came down and buried our truck completely. So at any time you can be hit by an avalanche.
How about Big Cottonwood?
Big Cottonwood Canyon? We deal with more what we call bluffs, you know, small little avalanches that come off the road. They can take up to a lane, and about five, 10-feet deep – enough to stop the road, enough to stop a car. We do have some bigger slide paths in Big Cottonwood Canyon, and those are monitored by an avalanche crew. Those haven't gone down and hit the road. But if they do, they will block the road in a major fashion. They are big slide areas and can go very big.
What’s it like on a big snow day at 4:15 a.m.?
So right around about 4:15, 4:20, the plows will enter the mouth of the canyon and start making their first plow up. Pretty amazing to see. They will have the front plow deployed with also two wings and heading up the canyon and pushing back as much as they can to get the road open. So they have a big responsibility to get all the way to the top of the mountain.
Biggest storm that you can remember in your time here?
Biggest storm? I think the biggest storm was probably the one that we got buried with the avalanche two years ago. It snowed over a foot in the valley and it kept snowing and snowing in the canyons. And I think we had almost 15 to 18 avalanches on the road. And some of those were 15 to 30 feet deep and some 50 yards wide. So it was a massive cleanup effort.
How Can we Help?While there is roadside parking in some areas, pay attention to restrictions and always park to the right of the white line. Think about a plow truck with front and side wing blades coming through. Are you blocking the road? Will you be digging out later in the day?
Get Traction
Know the Utah traction laws and make sure that your vehicle is in compliance before you head up into the Cottonwoods. Don’t be that person who is in the canyon unprepared!
Give ‘em Room
If you see a plow truck, give them some space. Don’t worry, they’re not looking to beat you to Milly Express. By the nature of what they do, plow trucks scrape snow, rocks and dirt. You don’t want that in your windshield!
Park Prudently
While there is roadside parking in some areas, pay attention to restrictions and park prudently. Think about a plow truck with front and side wing blades coming through. Is your car safe? Will you be digging out later in the day?
Say Thank You
The UDOT Cottonwoods Plow Team is a collection of men and women just like you – except they don’t ski. They spend their hours keeping the road safe for you. Give them a wave or flash your lights in appreciation. It’s a tough job.
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As skiers and riders, we hate to think of melting snow. But to Dr. McKenzie Skiles, snow melt is the lifeblood of existence in the mountain west. Last Chair ventured up Little Cottonwood Canyon to join Dr. Skiles in a three-meter deep snow pit to talk about snow melt, the impact of desert dust and what the future holds in store.
An Alaskan native who started skiing when she was two, Skiles had a long fascination with snow. She chose the University of Utah for college because of the snow-covered Wasatch. And when she learned there was a course of study in snow hydrology, she was hooked. She also discovered the Utah backcountry, bought a split board, and ultimately decided this was the place to stay.
Today, as an assistant professor in the U’s Geography Department, her passion is the study of snow – its water content, factors that influence the actual melt and how that water makes it’s way through creeks and rivers down to life-giving reservoirs.
Her research facility is a short skin up the lower flanks of Cardiff Peak across from Alta to the Atwater Study Plot, named for Monty Atwater, the father of avalanche safety. The study area is cordoned off from passing skiers and snow shoers to preserve the natural snowfall. A meteorological tower contains an array of instruments. And measuring devices in the snow weigh the snow pillow to gauge water content.
Once a week or more, Skiles and student assistants head up the trail to dig a snow pit, taking a variety of measurements of snow cores and evaluating dark layers of dust in the snow white walls. The information is carefully analyzed on site and back at their University of Utah lab.
The thought of melting snow is something we all hope is many months out. But this episode of Last Chair provides some fascinating insights into how our snowfall turns into water and fuels our lives here in the mountain west. Here’s a sampling of the interview. Listen in to Last Chair to learn more. <<LINK TO PODCAST>>
McKenzie, what is the Atwater Study Plot?
Atwater is a snow energy balance study plot where we are measuring how the snow accumulates and how it melts out and what is controlling the rates of those processes.
What do you do as a snow hydrologist?
I am really interested in snow after it falls to the ground and I want to be able to assess how much water is held to snow in the mountains. And, very importantly, when that is going to be available as water downstream. So when and how fast will that snow melt? And that's really critical here in Utah and over the whole Western us, because up to 80% of our surface water comes from snow annually. So it's a really critical component of the water cycle in the west.
How did you get into the field?
I was interested in studying climate and the impacts of climate on snow cover in particular. But I didn't really know that snow hydrology and studying snow was a career path you could have until I went to school at the University of Utah. My graduate advisor who was a snow hydrologist, and as soon as I figured out that was a job you could have, I didn't really ever look back.
How do you evaluate the particulates on the snow?
Actually you can see a dust layer in this snow pit, it's pretty varied. So we're weighing the total amount of dust that's in the snow pack. We get multiple dust events through the winter and then they get buried by snowfall. And so there are these individual dark layers within the snow pit. So we can track those individual dust layers, but then they don't get carried away in the meltwater they combine at the surface as snow melts. And that is a compounding effect where each layer sort of comes to the surface, the surface just gets darker and darker, accelerating absorption of sunlight and snow melt.
What’s a good melting pattern in the spring?
The ideal scenario is that as days get longer and sunlight gets more intense in the spring and into the summer, that we get a gradual melt. We want snow to come out slowly. And what that allows us to do is to capture it downstream. It allows it to infiltrate into the soils and it avoids flooding. And if you have some sort of event like a big dust deposition event or sort of multiple really warm days in a row or something like a rain on snow event, you can have really rapid melt. And when you get really rapid melt, it can lead to flooding downstream – so too much of a good thing at once.
Are others working in unison with you?
There are very talented and dedicated scientists that work here in Utah looking at this issue spanning institutions: Utah State, University of Utah, BYU. It's sort of an all hands on deck situation. The recharge for the Great Salt Lake is coming from the mountains that are right next door. So we have a unique opportunity here to study this, as a system, but then also understand solutions for other areas, because this is not the only place where a saline lake is shrinking and disappearing. So we have the opportunity here to provide solutions not just for us, but for other people in other locations as well.
Dr. McKenzie Skiles has a personal passion for snow, be that split boarding down a backcountry line or spending hours in the field researching snow melt.
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Since the day he found an old pair of skis in his family’s hotel attic, Henri Rivers has found a special joy in skiing. It didn’t matter to him that he was the only black skier on his high school ski team. He just loved to ski. Today, as president of the National Brotherhood of Skiers (NBS), Rivers is making a difference helping the ski industry better understand how to embrace black skiers with programs like Ski Utah’s Discover Winter.
The first thing that strikes you when you meet Rivers is not that he is black, but the importance of family and his passion for skiing that comes through quickly in a conversation. Before they married, he told fiancé Karen that he would be skiing six months a year. Without hesitation, she learned to ski and is always at his side. And it became the same for their triplets, who have long been a part of their family ski trips to the mountains!
Since he found that old pair of wooden skis with leather thongs when he was 10, skiing has been a part of his life. He long ago discovered NBS and passionately engaged in the organization’s mission to put a black skier onto the U.S. Ski Team. It was pretty natural for the outgoing Rivers to take on the presidency of NBS in early March, 2020. What was not natural was the pandemic that swept the world a few weeks later, or the Black Lives Matter uprising that came that May.
Within NBS, he held the organization together through the pandemic. Outside of NBS, he became one of the most sought-out leaders in the sport as ski industry executives from every corner reached out to him for help navigating the diversity waters.
This month he will preside over the 50th anniversary of the National Brotherhood of Skiers when it comes together for Black Summit.
But what he’s most proud of is the undying support NBS has provided towards its mission of advancing Black athletes in the sport. He speaks proudly of athletes of the past, and with eagerness when he talks about today’s Team NBS. And he’s set lofty fundraising goals for the organization to support the cause.
“We're always hoping that people can see the value of what we do and donate to our cause,” said Rivers. “So once we decided or once they decided to come up with that mission. That's when we got a different drive. You know, we went from just partying and having fun on the hill to gathering funds to support young athletes of color so that we could promote them and get them to training, develop them into elite racers.”
This is a conversation that blends the passion for skiing we all share, along with a special message of diversity. Take a listen to this episode of Last Chair featuring Henri Rivers: Bringing Diversity to the Mountain. <<LINK TO PODCAST>>
How did you discover skiing yourself?
I grew up in Jamaica, Queens, in New York. Around ten years old, my parents moved us up to upstate New York – a little town called Big Indian in the Catskills, about six miles from Belleayre Mountain and 10 miles from Phoenicia Ski Center. By Thanksgiving, you had three feet of snow outside. Either you stayed inside from Thanksgiving to March or you found a way to make all that snow out there your friend. I found a pair of skis in the attic of my parents' hotel – skis, boots and poles. I tried them on and they all fit.
But how did you learn?
I had no clue what I was doing. I figured out how to lace up the boots and strap in. They were cable bindings. I would put them on and I would just push off and go straight down the hill until there was an obstacle. And whenever a tree popped up, I would just tip over and fall.
As a skier in the Catskills back then, you probably were the only person of color on the mountain. How was that?
That was part of life. That's part of the American society. In most areas, if you're outside of an urban community, you're usually one of the only persons of color. Now you ratchet that up a little bit more when you're in a mountain community. You're definitely one of the only people of color. I was fortunate there was a guy a couple of years ahead of me in high school. He was such a phenomenal skier. And I'm telling you as a kid, my eyes would be wide open. You ask how it felt. It really didn't have any different feeling because that was society at that time. That was the community you were in. So just because we're skiing now, it's still the same community. If you were the only person of color, you will look at it a little differently, of course. You develop a thick skin because just living life was hard enough. Now you're into the ski world, into their environment. And it was the same thing. So you dealt with it the same way.
This year we’re celebrating 50 years of the National Brotherhood of Skiers. It’s quite an amazing history.
You know, that is something that I think about often going back to 1973, 1972. These two gentlemen (Art Clay and Ben Finley) decided to get together, form a bond and bring as many Black ski clubs as they could across the United States and gather them and get them to ski together. They wanted to ski together for several reasons. Camaraderie and definitely security. Getting together with a group of people that enjoy the same thing you do, and that look the same as you do, tends to give you a little bit higher safety factor. And then you wouldn't have to worry about some of the rhetoric or some of the things that were said in your direction because they wouldn't be said when you were there in numbers. So as a result of coming together and enjoying the sport and finding that many Black skiers were proficient skiers, it wasn't like a bunch of people skiing down, bumbling and falling. And, you know, they were quite proficient. And after the ski community saw that, I think they accepted it more and more.
Henri, what role did NBS play in the Black Lives Matter movement in 2020?
Everything stopped. May 25th, George Floyd gets murdered in the street, and we all see this. My phone rang off the hook every single day from the ski industry. We had large resorts, large manufacturers write letters in support of Black Lives Matter. So they were looking to the National Brotherhood of Skiers for guidance on how should they move forward in supporting human equality and to try to stop the racist system that exists.
Henri, one of the things I’ve learned from you is that sometimes racism isn’t very overt. Can you give an example.
The first thing that comes to me is this. You have a black skier or a group of black skiers that will come to a ski area. White skiers will come to them and, you know, be a little bit too overly helpful. ‘Oh, let me show you how to put on your boots. Oh, your boot goes here into these little black things called bindings.’ And, don't get me wrong, if you've never been on skis, you do need some guidance. But just because they're just coming up onto the hill doesn't mean they've never skied before. So you get people that want to help them or direct them. And sometimes it's a little bit too much. And that can be thought of as microaggressions that are unnecessary.
You’ve been a big supporter of Ski Utah’s Discover Winter program. What makes it unique?
They've done their homework and the program is going well. I was fortunate that Raelene Davis reached out and invited this out to watch the program and to be involved with one of the weekends. What they're doing is hitting a different demographic. The other winter outreach programs, they're l...
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With each successive two-foot snowfall, skiers and riders at resorts rejoice. But in the Utah backcountry with no avalanche mitigation, that fresh snow often sits on a sugary, crusty weak layer and can be prone to sliding. Last Chair headed into the Utah backcountry with Utah Avalanche Center pro Drew Hardesty for a conversation in a snow pit, analyzing those weak layers from storms going back to October and talking avalanche safety.
A seasoned avalanche safety veteran, Hardesty was a gracious backcountry guide, offering insights into the weather and how to prepare yourself to be safe.
Our outing was a simple one, heading up from the Guardsman Pass Road trailhead at the upper reaches of Big Cottonwood Canyon, climbing through magical aspen trees up a low angle ridgeline on the western flank of 10420. Finding a clearing amidst the snow-laden evergreens, Hardesty skillfully dug a nearly six-foot deep snow pit.
The conversation covered a broad range of avalanche safety topics, with insightful analysis into the layering created by each successive snowfall, and the weak layers of sugary snow between each – potentially a hazard when the snow facets don’t bond and the new snow breaks.
Hardesty is part of a dedicated team of professionals at the Utah Avalanche Center, providing daily insights and forecasts, as well as education, to help keep backcountry skiers and riders safe.
Listen in to learn more. Here’s a sample of Last Chair’s episode 8: Conversation in a Snow Pit with Drew Hardesty of the Utah Avalanche Center.
Drew, set the stage for us on the avalanche problem we’re facing.
Early season we had quite a bit of snowfall in October. It continued into early November and it really started to stack up. But then the storm shut down there for a couple of weeks. And as I like to say, the weather does the devil's work. And by that I meant that snow sitting on the ground started to get weak, sugary, less cohesion at the surface. And that has become our weak layer for these subsequent storms.
In your experience, what is one of the biggest red flags here in Utah?
I did a study a few years ago looking at all of our avalanche accidents in the modern era going back to 1941 – almost 130 avalanche fatalities since then. And we have way more higher proportion of fatalities from people accessing the backcountry from the ski areas and the lifts than any other state. Easily 20% of our fatalities have been people going and accessing the backcountry from the ski areas.
What goes into forecasting by Utah Avalanche Center?
Our forecasts are predicated upon the field work of not just our avalanche forecasters, but whole platoons of what we call professional observers. And again, just that great communication that we have with all of our snow safety brothers and sisters and again with Utah Department of Transportation, the guides out there, it's really fundamental to be out in the snow like we are today, to look and see what's going on with the snowpack, what's going on with the weather.
Drew, as you look at this snow pit wall, what are the important points?
As we're looking here, we have about two feet of our slab here. And the slab is nothing more than what we'd call a cohesive plate of snow, something that's cohesive and strong, that's sitting on something weak – sugary snow. It's just very crystalline and weak.
What’s the heritage of snow safety here in Utah?
Utah is the birthplace of avalanche science and avalanche mitigation in North America, upper Little Cottonwood Canyon in the late ‘30s and ‘40s. These grandfathers, Monte Atwater and Ed LaChapelle, really built avalanche science and avalanche forecasting that has set the benchmark for anyone else in North America. So it's an honor to be part of that lineage here.
Do you have a favorite backcountry place in Utah?
It's the Provo Mountains. The Provo mountains are some of the most radical and extreme and beautiful part of our Wasatch – seldom traveled. And it's very dangerous terrain in there. And you have to be right. You have to pay attention. And I'd have to say that the Provo area mountains are my favorite part of the Wasatch Range.
Drew in one word can you sum up what it means to be in this beautiful Utah backcountry?
Boy, I just can't Tom. But It's a good life. It's a good life.
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In October it started snowing in Utah. And it really hasn’t stopped, with over 225 inches in Little Cottonwood Canyon by mid-December. So, what’s going on? Last Chair invited Open Snow forecaster Evan Thayer and atmospheric scientist Jim Steenburgh for a Special Snowfall Edition podcast to dive into the continuous powder forecast and share a few stories of their own.
Deep powder is nothing new in Utah. But the 2022-23 season kicked off with a bang, starting in late October and continuing incessantly up to the Christmas holiday. A mid-December storm that was forecast to drop 25-30 inches tapped out closer to 70+ inches!
Was it La Niña? Was it lake effect from the Great Salt Lake? Or was it the Ninth & Ninth Whale?
Listen in to learn more. Here’s a sample of Last Chair’s episode 7 with Evan Thayer and Jim Steenburgh.
Jim, what do you point to as you look back on the season so far?
Jim Steenburgh: There were two critical periods that gave us the incredible situation we have right now. One was in early November. We got an incredibly high density wet storm that just coated everything and gave a great base in the mid upper elevations. And then now, you know, from about December 11th to the 15th, we had this really prolonged, very low density snowfall event. Alta got over seven inches of snow with a water content of 4%, which is like all time for skiing. I just think it's been a great start to the season.
Evan, as a forecaster, where do you get your intel?
Evan Thayer: It is people like Jim. It's the people in academia and doing the research who are building these tools, and they allow people like me to access the tools. And then I contextualize it into a forecast that's useful for skiers and snowboarders or, you know, any type of recreation analyst.
Jim, what did you most like about how the early season snow set up for the season?
Jim Steenburgh: That period from December 11th to 15th was really good. Early in the season, I don't care about quality. The only thing I want is quantity. The best start to the ski season is to have early snow that starts maybe in early November. You know, this year it came a little earlier in October. But I want really high density snow to build base to start the season. And we got that in early November.
Evan, how important was that?
Evan Thayer: Last week was the perfect setup because it came in a little bit on the warm side, so a little bit higher density snow late Sunday night. So on Monday, you were skiing snow that was more typical of Utah. That was like 8% water content. But then for Tuesday, Wednesday and into Thursday, it was so fluffy. But you had that denser bottom there. So even if you did sink neck deep in, as Jim said, you're going to feel the body way underneath that keeps you from hitting crust or any bumps like that. So it takes already deep snow and makes it feel just like completely bottomless. So it was the ideal setup for powder skiing.
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The new Salt Lake City International airport provides the closest gateway in the world to such a diversity of skiing and riding. Opened in September 2020, the new SLC is one of the world’s most innovative and eco-friendly airports, providing a welcome mat for upwards of 30,000 passengers a day. Last Chair sat down with Executive Director Bill Wyatt to learn more about why SLC is turning heads with visitors from around the world.
Wyatt, who grew up in Oregon where he ran the Portland International Airport and the city’s maritime port, thought he was retiring in 2017. But a few days later, he took a recruiter’s call and landed in Salt Lake City. Taking over the construction project, he saw it to conclusion then shepherded the airport through the pandemic, ultimately saving two years and hundreds of millions of dollars in cost savings through an ingenious plan that took advantage of low passenger counts in 2020.
Our Last Chair interview with Wyatt took place in the airport’s bustling Central Plaza, just inside security and in the midst of Utah restaurants such as Market Street Grill and Roosters. The affable Wyatt was quite at home, excitedly talking about the airport and the role it plays welcoming thousands of visitors each day.
Here’s a sample of Last Chair’s episode 6 with airport leader Bill Wyatt. Listen in to learn more in what was a fun conversation that showcases the welcoming atmosphere at the new SLC.
Bill, to start, give us a sense of perspective of the Salt Lake City Airport?
We're 20th largest in the country and that is largely because we're a Delta hub – 70% of their traffic connects through Salt Lake. Without being a connecting hub, we would probably have 45 or so nonstop flights. Today, I think we have about 95. During the pandemic, obviously not something any of us ever anticipated, Salt Lake was one of the fastest to return to service. And today I think we stand as the most recovered airport in the country in terms of airplane seats in the market. And that has a lot to do with why we're here talking. During the pandemic, there was a point at which people just said, ‘you know what, I'm getting out of my basement. I'm going to go somewhere.’ They weren't going to go to New York City. They weren't going to Disneyland. But they did come to Salt Lake because they could go skiing or they could go to the national parks or up into the desert. And we're continuing to see very strong volumes for all of that.
On that note, just how did the pandemic impact traffic at SLC?
I always look at how many people are going to arrive at the front door, because that's where you really have to pay attention. And a big day for us is 30,000 people. And that February (2020), I think we had two or three of those days. In late March (2020), I remember standing on the sky bridge to my office, which was above Terminal A, for 10 minutes and not seeing a single passenger. And we were at that point about five months from opening (the new airport). So it was obviously concerning. Tom Kelly: [00:09:19] We're going to talk a little bit more about the plan. And I know we'll dive back into some of the benefits that pandemic actually brought to your construction. But just to talk a little bit about the airport itself and maybe if you could elaborate on what your specific role is. I know that you oversee the whole thing, but what are some of the areas that are really big focal points for you in managing the Salt Lake City International Airport?
Going back in time, why did Salt Lake City decide to invest in a new airport?
The old airport was designed to handle about 10 million annual passengers and in its last full year of operation did just a little over 28. The old airport really couldn't handle much more. It certainly couldn't handle any more aircraft. It was old. It was not designed as a hub. I always hold up my hand when I talk about the old airport because that's what it looked like. You know, you had these five fingers or five concourses that were connected. And if there was a single aircraft movement in between any two of those fingers, everything else came to a stop. And so this airport is designed as a 21st century hub airport where no aircraft ever has to wait for another one to get out of its way, which has, by the way, enormous positive environmental benefits, because the old airport caused a lot of jet fuel to be burned unnecessarily because of that design feature.
On that point, how important was sustainability in the new airport plan?
The decision was made to go for gold LEED standard. The way that this was accomplished was a tremendous focus on energy efficiency. The little bag tugs that take the bags back and forth from the planes -- they're all electric now. They're not actually allowed to have internal combustion engines in the bag halls or underneath the building at all. Natural light harvesting – a tremendous amount of environmental automation that goes with the building we use today, less electricity in this building than we did in the old airport, which I think is a sign of the effort that was undertaken. Little things like free flowing dual taxi lanes in all directions means that planes are taxiing less on the ground and getting out of here quicker, which means a huge amount of carbon savings. So the day the new airport opened, I like to say, was probably the best day for air quality in this valley in a very, very long time.
What are the key milestones coming up over the next few years?
So the milestones that are in front of us, we recently completed one milestone, which is to allow for aircraft to taxi over the top of what we call the central tunnel. The next big milestone will occur in May when the first four gates on A Concourse East, which is currently under construction, open. The following November, all of the A concourse opens. And then the following fall, the central tunnel will open. And it will significantly improve the customer experience. I am confident that we will begin construction of a 16 gate expansion (on Concourse B), something that was not really anticipated for several years, which will conclude in 2027. And that means in the space of seven years, Salt Lake will have gone from an airport that had 52 jet bridges to one with 94 jet bridges. And that growth is really a mirror reflection of what's been happening in the economy of this value, this valley to the ski industry, the tourism industry, just the tremendous growth that we all can see with our own eyes.
What are some unique elements for skiers?
The ski industry had a lot to do with various design elements of the airport. The bag belts where the agent puts your bag is a full foot wider than a conventional bag belt, and that is to accommodate oversized bags like skis, snowboards, golf clubs. When you are an arriving passenger, you go out into the bag hall to grab your bags and your ski bag is on a vertical carousel. So it's a lot easier to pick off. And I might say for those skiers who've had their four or five days of skiing and then are going home, we've we're making some adjustments here that I think are going to be tremendously well received. One, if you take a shuttle down from Park City, for example, and arrive at level one, which is the ground floor, you can get off there and go directly in and check in and then move through the checkpoint from level one itself. You don't have to go up three stories to do that. The other thing that Delta is going to do this season – I'm very excited for this – they're working with the resorts to allow customers to check their overs...
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When you fly into Salt Lake City from the north, you get a poignant view of the vanishing water in the Great Salt Lake. The problem is real. So what is Utah doing about it? Last Chair traveled to Antelope Island, in the heart of the lake, to speak with Utah state representative Tim Hawkes, a passionate advocate, on the very realistic steps the state is already taking to save the Great Salt Lake.
In today’s world of polarized politics, Hawkes stands out as a leader who works across the aisles. He laughs as he describes himself as a conservative who advocates for natural resources. In fact, if there is any one issue in Utah that truly unites politicians, it’s saving the Great Salt Lake.
Hawkes grew up in Brigham City, Utah, learning to love the outdoors as a young boy, hiking, fishing, hunting, cutting school to go skiing. He followed his passion into law, becoming a water rights attorney with a thriving career in Washington, D.C. Over time, he missed the Utah outdoors and moved back to his home state, working first with Trout Unlimited protecting waterways.
Today, Hawkes is a leading advocate saving the Great Salt Lake, working closely with his fellow legislators to seek real solutions. In his day job, he serves as legal counsel for the Great Salt Lake Brine Shrimp Cooperative.
How real is the problem? For our podcast interview, we drove across the causeway to Antelope Island. What used to be a roadway surrounded by water, now has only a few small pools. Birds that used to flock along the highway are now relegated to small patches of water. To find water along the shore of the island, in some places you would need to travel a mile.
Can the lake be saved? Hawkes thinks so. He’s a positive, forward-looking leader focused on solutions.
Here’s a sample of Last Chair’s episode 5 of season 4 with Utah state representative Tim Hawkes on how Utah is working together to save the Great Salt Lake.
What is it about being out in nature that's so compelling to all of us?
There's something deeply human that appeals to us about wild things and wild places. And I think it's important for our mental health, for our spirituality, sense of well-being and connectedness, just presence.
The Great Salt Lake is an amazing place, but often taken for granted in the past.
It's easy to see the lake as kind of an oddity. I grew up in Utah and you see it as out of sight, out of mind. It's been interesting as an adult to get to know it better, to understand the ecology. That's part of my job – to learn about it. But just to get out to Antelope Island and see the amazing wildlife that's out here, it feels otherworldly.
The Great Salt Lake is a terminal lake – what does that mean?
A terminal Lake is basically a lake that sits at the bottom of a watershed and it doesn't have an outlet. So there are rivers flowing in. There are no rivers flowing out. And so the only way that water is lost is through evaporation. That tends to concentrate salt and other minerals in that system. And that's where you get these unique systems where you need uniquely adapted critters that can survive in them because the conditions are very harsh salt, salt content very high.
Why has the lake attracted so much attention recently?
For those that have been engaged in protecting the lake and trying to conserve the lake, we've all been astonished by just how much interest has kicked in over the lake in recent years. And I think that has everything to do with these low lake levels. So the low lake levels have driven concerns about how that can affect the state and can affect the ecosystem that's driven media attention. And that largely then accounts for the public starting to gain more and more awareness of, ‘oh my gosh, the lake does touch us in ways, really important ways that we didn't fully realize we've got to do something to protect it.’
Is this an issue with Mother Nature, climate change, population growth?
It's really human caused. And one of the interesting data points that I don't think people realize, is they assume because we're in the middle of a very significant drought, that it's just we're getting a lot less precipitation and the science actually doesn't back that up. If you take Salt Lake Valley or Cache Valley, important watersheds that feed into the Great Salt Lake, and you just measure them over time, you just look how much rain and snow is falling and you plot it out – it's largely flat. It hasn't changed. It's hard to make the argument that we're getting less precipitation. So the only thing that can account for these dramatically low levels are really two things. One is that our climate is getting warmer. And as it gets warmer, then it takes more water to keep crops up or keep your lawns green or whatever. So we use more water. But the second way that it affects us is that we are just altering this ecosystem. The best available science suggests that we have contributed about 11 feet of elevation loss. If you took that 11 feet and you put it back into Great Salt Lake today, the lake would be right close to its historic average.
What are the key water usages impacting the lake?
Agriculture is a big use and then everybody points the finger at agriculture. It is interesting though, because when largely the areas around Great Salt Lake were in agriculture, the lake was fairly healthy. What's changed is a lot of urban and suburban development and that changes flow patterns as well. We all have grass where before there was just sagebrush and we try to keep that grass green even in the middle of the summer, even in the heat of summer. And so we call it municipal and industrial, but basically water that's used for homes and businesses. And the last one I would say is industry. We have a very important mineral industry out on the Great Salt Lake and the way that they get the minerals out of the water is forced evaporation, so they contribute to lake declines, as well. So I sort of say it's agriculture, it's homes and businesses and then it's industry.
If water usage by humans is the problem, how can the legislature act and act quickly?
The pace of change has been nothing short of extraordinary. I've never seen anything like it. It's hard to change water law. But, I'd say in the last two to three years, we've probably seen six to eight major pieces of legislation that have direct effects on Great Salt Lake – really extraordinary bills that provide greater legal recognition for environmental uses of water, that provide greater flexibility in terms of how we share water, and that fundamentally call out Great Salt Lake and try to create legal tools to help fix this enormous problem.
You’ve been in public office for eight years and are now retiring from that service. What motivated you to serve?
Well, I'm one of those crazy idealists that really do try to ask myself, ‘what have I done to make the world a better place?’ That's really what got me interested in public policy. And I was working outside of the legislature on these policy questions. I had sort of written off the idea of running for office, but my wife was the one that actually suggested to me, ‘Hey, Tim, you get really excited when it comes to politics and policy, have you thought about running?’ And so I made kind of a wild haired decision to run. It's been immensely rewarding and gratifying. I'm so grateful for my colleagues at the legislature – many o...
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