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Back to the beginning
This podcast episode features the journey of Tom, a chartered surveyor who started his career right after earning his degree from Reading University. He began in consultancy with Montagu Evans, where he quickly honed his skills and gained diverse experience working with high-profile clients, including Landsec and British Land.
A pivotal moment came when a client from Landsec invited him to join their team. Recognising a rare opportunity, Tom took the leap and joined Landsec in 2007. His early years there were filled with excitement, as he worked on designing and developing shopping centres during a vibrant period for retail. However, the global financial crisis soon transformed the landscape, presenting new challenges and shifting his focus. Landsec asked him to step into asset management, refilling and revitalising vacant shopping centres, and ultimately preparing them for sale. Tom embraced this unexpected role, which took him to places he hadn’t yet explored and left him with lasting memories.
A few years later, as the market stabilised, Tom returned to Landsec’s London development team. This marked a transformative phase, as he contributed to the regeneration of Victoria, helping to open up spaces and modernise buildings from the 1950s. Reflecting on this time, Tom shares invaluable lessons learned and fond memories from working with talented people, who shaped both his career and his enduring passion for urban development.
Why Tom joined the visionaries behind Canary Wharf’s transformation
Tom shares his long-standing admiration for Canary Wharf Group, noting how remarkable it is for a development to reach such maturity in just 30-35 years. For a property professional, witnessing Canary Wharf’s transformation—from empty land to the vibrant, iconic hub it is today—is nothing short of extraordinary.
What ultimately drew Tom to join the Canary Wharf Group was the people. He reflects on how every individual he met at the organisation left a lasting impression, inspiring him with their talent and vision. Working alongside such an impressive team has been a defining part of his journey, fueling his excitement and commitment to Canary Wharf’s future.
Defining excellence and building a team inspired by CEO Shobi Khan
Tom reflects on a piece of advice from CEO Shobi Khan that left a lasting impact: "Only hire people you think are exceptional." Khan emphasised the importance of not settling for quick hires, but rather holding out for those who truly stand out.
This principle leads to a key question: What defines ‘exceptional’? Tom shares the qualities he seeks in top talent. First, he values natural enthusiasm—people who are genuinely passionate about their work tend to excel and thrive in their roles. Another vital quality is clear commercial acumen. In a field focused on both design and profitability, Tom looks for individuals who can balance creativity with a sharp business sense, envisioning solutions that ensure both aesthetic and financial success. This instinctive ability to navigate challenges while keeping a commercial lens is something he prizes highly in his team.
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In this episode, David Young provides valuable insights into team dynamics, emphasising a strengths-based approach to exploring how to build high-performance teams.
Andrew Deverell-Smith delves into how David Young started and built his career within sports psychology and topics such as understanding group vs team dynamics, leveraging super strengths and finding the perfect balance between challenging and supporting teams.
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Saknas det avsnitt?
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Nicola is the owner of a renowned and award-winning estate agency nestled in the vibrant Colmore BID district. Since establishing the company in 2004, Nicola has steered the company to prominence, earning it a respected reputation as one of Birmingham's premier residential agencies.
She shares her inspiring journey to success, her commitment to the Colmore BID and what plans she has for the upcoming year.
You can watch and listen to the full episode now...
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Hosted by Andrew Deverell-Smith, Global CEO and founder of deverellsmith & Hintel, listen as they dive into Nick’s back-to-front way of getting into the property market, how he came to work at Pocket Living, his favourite parts of his career so far and the challenges he finds with regarding the politics of the property industry.
Listen to the full episode now.
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An original thinking and thought leader, he questions convention and isn’t afraid to ask the big questions. Richard is a highly experienced residential property expert, and since his first appearance on a new lease of life, he has founded the UK Single Family Associate, a not-for-profit members organisation, representing the whole housing and construction spectrum.
He talks about what sets the single-family rental market apart from the rest of Build to Rent, why he set up his new organisation and their mission for the future.
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Home economics to housing communities…
Anna discovered her passion for housing during her home economics studies. During her job search, she became inspired by a position focusing on homeless accommodation—a place designed to aid individuals in transitioning from the streets to more permanent housing, providing a supportive environment for up to a year. At a mere 21 years old, this position challenged her, reshaping her perspective on housing as more than just bricks and mortar; it became intricately tied to people’s experiences. Many who sought refuge in the accommodation grappled with substance abuse, mental health struggles, and the trauma of homelessness. Understanding this holistic view became a crucial lesson for Anna.
Subsequently, she transitioned into the role of a homelessness officer during the late 80’s, a period rife with mortgage repossessions. Anna worked to expand temporary accommodation while maintaining a keen focus on the human aspect of this crisis. Within 2 years, she proposed a transformative paper aimed at restructuring the system. Her vision aimed to pivot from a reactive service to a homelessness prevention initiative, aiming to intervene earlier in the process to avert the anguish of homelessness.
Creating retirement communities for all…
Having garnered extensive experience across almost every facet of the housing industry, Anna delved into the story behind Tonic Housing. The idea was a concept of Tonic’s Founders and board members, sparked from their own life experiences and questions around the choices available to them regarding housing as an elderly member of the LGBTQ+ community. From this, they observed a notable absence of inclusive choices in the housing market, spurring them to offer secure alternatives. Their passion was driven by the aspiration to create a haven where individuals could not only embrace their LGBTQ+ identity but also find solace among like-minded individuals who truly understood their journey.
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Making his name in Dubai …
In Dubai, George gained prominence at Union Bancaire Privée, a major family-owned bank. Over 14 years, he astoundingly grew the business from $ 60 million to $5 billion. His success lay in securing capital from major sovereigns, banks, treasuries, and large family offices, solidifying his position in the Middle Eastern finance arena.
How did he do it?
According to George, the key is building relationships, consistency, and hard work, day in and day out.
George gave an example of how this strategy worked.
George had visited a sovereign fund just 5 times in 4 years, and his colleagues advised him to give up because they believed they were never going to give him business.
Yet, after the 5th visit, a fax arrived, granting a $1.5 billion mandate, affirming the importance of consistency in building relationships. George saw value in understanding the culture and spending time on potentially sometimes inefficient businesses, which helped him navigate partnerships in the market.
From banking to making bank in the real estate industry…
George is now leading one of the most successful estate agency businesses on the planet, how did he get there?
Funny story.
After George’s banking days, he didn’t see any further value in the market from an earning perspective. He shares how working in a private environment had always been beneficial to him, as he was able to get deals done faster, whereas if you work for the big banks, there are regulations and sometimes by the time you get to finalising a decision the deal is off the table.
This empowered George to be agile and fast in decision-making. His main idea was to set up his own bank, but it was very costly and required a lot of funds. He asked his friend, ‘What could I set up that looks like a bank, behaves like a bank but doesn’t cost like a bank?’, and the answer was real estate. So, he thought if he wanted to get into real estate, he needed a brand.
He reeled through a list of names and that’s when he came across the name: Sotheby’s.
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How did Tomb Raider take the world by storm?
Jeremy described himself as the person who simply gave the green light to the Tomb Raider phenomenon. He draws a comparison to the creation of Mickey Mouse, suggesting that while Walt Disney gets the recognition, the actual creator might have been someone working under him.
He highlights Toby Gard as the mind behind Tomb Raider’s creation, initially conceiving the character as male but reshaping it into Lara Croft to avoid legal issues with Indiana Jones. Reflecting on those times, Jeremy acknowledges the decision to embrace a female protagonist in a predominantly male gaming world as a bold move.
Throughout the process, Toby and the team were responsible for the entire creation, while Jeremy’s role was to guide them in the right direction.
Reinventing Build to Rent technology with Spike Global…
Jeremy describes Spike as a central hub within a residential complex – a resident portal that encompasses all essential amenities for those living in these wonderful build-to-rent schemes. This portal allows residents to access various services within the building, from communicating with the concierge to booking gym sessions of meeting rooms – essentially catering to all their needs.
However, the question arises: what’s in it for the managing agent?
The real advantage lies in facilitating communication between the managing agents and their tenants. Spike excels in this aspect. It addresses the primary challenge in Build to Rent, which is effective communication. Enabling tenants to reach out to the building managers easily and efficiently, significantly boosts satisfaction levels all around.
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Life before Winkworth
In the exciting journey of Dominic’s career, he shared his initial steps were taken as a politics student at Newcastly University. It was here that he questioned where his degree in politics could take him. With curiosity, he ventured into diverse fields such as financial public relations and risk analysis. However, it was only a matter of time before his path led him to a new and intriguing domain.
Dominic’s turning point came when he found himself drawn to the world of real estate with Winkworth. This was the place where he planted his feet and embark on a journey that would shape his career. He found the passion within his career in this family business and believed it was somewhere he could make a real impact.
What does the future hold for Winkworth?
It’s clear that Dominic has a distinct vision for its future. His primary goal is to maintain a multifaceted approach to the business, constantly evolving and exploring new avenues.
Key objectives include not only generating new business areas but also nurturing a robust network, preserving market share, and positioning the company as one of the top three operators in its domain. Moreover, diversification remains a crucial aspect of their strategy.
A significant move was their launch into the commercial sector last year and this year, they’ve set their sights on venturing into the New Homes market. This expansion demonstrates their commitment to adapt and grow in an ever-changing business landscape.
What advice would you give aspiring property leaders?
Dominic insights that in the realm of business, the most valuable piece of advice one can receive is also the simplest: work hard. The individual who puts in the most effort in any room often emerges as the most successful. While the business landscape may seem intricate, at its core, it’s a straightforward principle – hard work pays off. The more you invest in it, the greater the rewards waiting at the other end of the journey.
He suggested to maintain the hard work, it’s important to surround yourself with environments that keep you motivated. Remember in the world of business, hard work and the right motivating environments are you key to unlocking exceptional results.
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Key takeaways from the UK BTR market…
Christian shared that his journey to Australian BTR took him to the UK between 2007 and 2012, where he immersed himself in the world of urban renewal, and quickly discovered that the UK was at the forefront of innovation in this field.
One of the notable experiences involved active involvement in projects within the Stratford area, a place that held significance during the 2012 Olympics. Christian shared that one specific project that left a lasting impression on him Coppermaker Square, a key part of the Westfield Stratford development, which was completed in 2008, prior to the rise of the Build to Rent market. It was here that Christian had a front-row seat to observe how these urban precincts took shape and evolved through the process of urban renewal. Remarkably, during Christian's time in the UK, the concept of BTR had yet to fully emerge and establish itself as it is today.
Christian’s experience during that time provided him with a unique perspective on urban development and renewal, which would later prove invaluable in shaping HOME’s progressive approach to BTR and sustainability. He understood the power of urban renewal in areas like Stratford, Croydon and even Wembley, and how they benefited the community, especially in terms of housing supply to the area.
Integrating sustainability practices into HOME communities…
In the realm of sustainability, HOME is making impressive strides, demonstrating its commitment to progressiveness. Christian revealed that their inspiration to embrace sustainability practices stemmed from interactions with UK Build to Rent groups during Australian conferences several years ago.
These forward-thinking BTR groups, upon reflecting on their journey, candidly admitted that as they neared completion of their initial assets, they wished they had pushed the boundaries a bit further on their sustainability targets as the landscape of expectations had moved under their feet.
Fast-forward to today, all of HOME’s buildings are now 5-star green or equivalent, and Christian and the entire team are setting their sights on achieving net-zero carbon emissions in all aspects of operations, including across management. HOME also does a lot of work with its residents, creating an education programme which generates opportunities for them to live sustainably wherever they can.
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Journey before Switch
John explains his journey in the hospitality industry began as a hotel management graduate, but it took a turn when he transitioned to working with independent property owners. This led him to work for a company led by an entrepreneurial owner with a penchant for acquiring properties across Oxfordshire. However, his path eventually led him back to the corporate world, where he found the opportunity to establish his own company, marking the birth of Switch.
Fast forward to today, and Switch has grown to a dedicated team of 320 staff members across the group and is heading towards its 2nd anniversary.
Taking a step into Build to Rent
John explained that their partnership with Southern Capital, who not only own a couple of the buildings that Switch manages but are also valued shareholders in our company drove their movement into the BTR sector.
Southern Capital was looking to build a PRS development in Birmingham, to build something more up-market, including suites.
During this journey with Southern Capital, John realised that BTR is fundamentally about service, and at its core, it’s all about customer retention and satisfaction – which is what Switch and its team do daily. By putting hotel-trained reception and customer service teams into a BTR development he found that customer retention and yields grow greatly.
Listen now to hear more… -
She has consistently pushed the boundaries of what's possible in the realm of luxury hospitality and unique accommodations.
Naomi has honed her expertise in real estate and property development, turning her passion for creating exceptional living spaces into a reality.
It was an absolute pleasure to have her as a guest, and I look forward to hearing what my network thinks of the episode.
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How did the ‘Dear Sirs’ campaign begin?
Ellie explains the phrase “Dear Sirs” remains prevalent within the context of Estate Agency and conveyance, particularly within legal and property professions. This traditional salutation continues to serve as the default choice for initiating formal communication, whether in the form of a letter or an email directed towards a company or a collective group of individuals.
Ellie recounts her initial experiences upon entering the Estate Agency industry, coming across her first ‘Dear Sirs’ salutation. She comments that she found it strange that her gender was clearly not accounted for, and they must have not realised she was a woman.
Her curiosity in the matter led her to quickly learn that this was embedded into our history, and when asked politely to not be addressed as ‘Sir’ she was met by the argument that this is the way it has always been done and is a legal default.
What is the aim of the ‘Dear Sirs’ campaign?
The above experience prompted Ellie to delve further into linguistic conventions, and how she could advocate for inclusivity in professional interactions.
Ellie developed the formal ‘Dear Sirs’ campaign, which gained traction from leaders within the industry, as well as the press. She started to write about her experience and now the campaign is working towards eradicating Dear Sirs and other non-inclusive language within the industry.
In addition, Ellie expressed that the ‘Dear Sirs’ campaign is a hook for a much broader cultural attitude that is very male-dominant within the industry and is an umbrella for other conversations to be had regarding inclusivity.
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What do we mean by a glass ceiling?
Susan Gregory shares that the more she has reflected on her own journey and educated herself the more she questions – is it something we’ve constructed that isn’t true?
In general, the ‘glass ceiling’ refers to the limit that is set for women with how high women can go within an organisation, above that it’s very difficult to break through. If someone wants to get into those senior positions, you either can’t or have to change who you are to be accepted into the C-suite leadership positions.
The second part to this is the idea of career ladders, and wanting to get to the top, which is something Susan now challenges quite vocally. There are a couple of women that have written podcasts on squiggly careers, and Susan explains that this is what her career looks like. She has worked in places for between 18 months - 2 years and in some of those she has hit a glass ceiling, but in others, on reflection, she admits she had added all of the value she could and outgrown the business, and that has to be okay to some degree as well.
Should we dismiss the word ceiling?
It conjures up an idea of a linear trajectory and Ellie Reese illustrates that historically and traditionally women tend to take on a large share of the childcare and the responsibilities in the domestic sphere. It has suited men to have a more linear trajectory in a career as it’s a case of climbing up and tends to be simpler. Whereas the natural breaks for women, tend to be there.
Listen to the full podcast to learn more…
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Where it all began…
Matt’s professional career started in the valuation space working for the likes of CBRE and JLL as a tenant rep. This very quickly evolved into Matt working in the development world, first as an analyst with a big builder. This bought him exposure to lots of different asset classes, opening his horizons to what opportunities were available within the property industry. 2014 was the first time Matt had exposure to Build to Rent, winning the Commonwealth Games Village project which was held on the gold coast. This was a massive project with 1250 units and was delivered as a build-to-rent asset.
What’s attractive about the Build to Rent market?
The residential space is something that everyone can relate to, as everyone lives in a home or apartment. Matt shared that Australians are obsessed with property, and even though he lives in a house he is always looking at other houses on the market. Build to Rent combines the fundamental grassroots side of property, with the nuts and bolts of commercial, retail or industrial.
An update on the Australian Build to Rent market.
Matt shared that PBSA was always about 7 years behind the UK market. This may sound like a disadvantage, but it enables them to decide what they like or don’t like and witness the mistakes that the UK have made and learn from them. He shares this is the same when applied to the Build to Rent market, when they were building the Commonwealth Games Village in 2014, the UK had already built that asset with the London Olympics in 2012.
In terms of the state of the market, Matt shares that the build-to-sell market began to slow down from around 2018/19 when the offshore purchases that existed to fuel that market on the residential side of things slowed down. Build to Rent is the only asset class right now that is firing on the residential side of things, and because of that rather than being quite a niche market in Australia, it has become potentially the only solution to solving housing affordability.
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Influences from around the world
Born in Sri Lanka, David’s father managed tea estates and David followed him around the world throughout the early years of his life. He lived in South India for ten years, then moved to Uganda for 3-4 years and finally to Canada. Throughout those years travelling, from the age of 8 David was flying back to the UK to go to boarding school.
David shared that looking back, having these influences from around the world has shaped who he is today, his perspective on life and the way he does business. Visiting and living in all of these diverse countries, gave him the chance to experience the extreme differences between countries such as the climate and poverty.
All in all, it taught him resilience, opened him up to influences from everywhere and gave him the ability to look at the world from a unique viewpoint.
Leading people
David became the joint Managing Director of ARGENT in 2006 and the sole Managing Partner in 2012. Almost half of that time has been spent in some sort of leadership position.
Aside from the plethora of iconic projects that he has worked on within his career, David shares the part that he is most proud of is the business and its people. To be able to say that the values that he sees within the organisation today that are driving people to create great places are the ones that the business was built upon 30 years ago is something that he is extremely proud of.
David shares that he has always wanted the business to be admired AND respected. He reveals he has instilled and maintained those values within the business by firstly articulating them to the key stakeholders within the business as well as hiring people into the business that share the same values and will flourish under them.
Net Zero Carbon Building Standard Initiative
This is something that David has always been extremely interested in, and a topic that Argent has been implementing in all their projects – to be as climate change friendly as possible.
David became the Chair of the trustees of the UK Green Building Council in 2017 and to this day is a trustee. After having a discussion about what things are of critical importance within the property industry, David shares there was a unanimous agreement that the industry needed a single definition of what net zero carbon was for the entire market.
They have now brought together a whole group of property professionals, including RIBA, RICS and the Carbon Trust to bring the initiative forward by the entire real estate industry. The initiative has been formulated by professionals with the intention of getting it adopted by everyone from the people that own the building, the people that build the building and the people that lend money to those people.
David shares that if the industry has a single metric of what net zero really means, then we can all account for it, and that’s the key. As soon as the industry can find a price for carbon and measure it, everyone will start to adapt their real estate to ensure they end in a net zero position.
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The gender pay gap vs equal pay
Susan Gregory explains that the gender pay gap concerns the difference in hourly pay between men and women. This is where an organisation will calculate the earnings of their male employees and divide that by the total number of men in the business. They will then do the same with women and the difference between those numbers is what the gender pay gap represents. This often highlights a disparity of earnings between men and women.
The gender gap is not comparing those that are working in the same role and are being paid a different amount (however some are), it’s highlighting that women are often in lower paid, less senior, and less decision-making positions.
Ellie Reese explains that the gender pay gap goes further by separating the mean and median average into lower, middle, and upper quartiles. Usually, if you have work for of majority women which most estate agencies do, most women are sitting in the lower pay quartile, showing they are in those more supporting roles.
The estate agency world
Considering only companies with over 250 employees need to publish what their gender pay gap is, Nicola, asks how this impacts the estate agency world where most of those businesses are going to be working under that number. They discuss that it is difficult, however, the 20-odd organisations in the industry that so qualify for that number represent well what an estate agency looks like. Most of the small independent agencies will have structures and processes like those of bigger, corporate estate agencies. Corporate businesses have a responsibility of setting the tone because they are highly visible within the industry.
Why is the conversation around the gender pay gap becoming more prevalent?
Ellie Reese suggests that the aftermath of the pandemic has changed the landscape of the working world in general and has highlighted so many things that are based on gender. Furthermore, there has been a rise to the surface of dissatisfaction in general since the me-too movement, and we are more open to having these honest conversations.
As a society we are becoming more aware of the world around us, what is good and what is acceptable, leading to the gender pay gap being on people’s minds which is in turn reflecting the culture of the workplace.
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The steppingstones to success
After dropping out of her history degree at 18 because it wasn’t the right fit, Fiona landed herself a job at Dublin City Corporation as an office administrator. She was handed two envelopes to decide which division she would sit in, and she picked the housing department over vehicle taxation which could have taken her down a very different career path.
She shares the culture shock she experienced from living in a small town in Ireland, adapting to working in Dublin, and realising that housing was an actual reality. She had never seen flats where she lived, and then suddenly she was looking after Dublin’s only high-rise building at that time.
Widening her career
The Dublin City Corporation gave her a career break, and she took the opportunity to go travelling. She landed in London and fell in love with the city. She shares it was so different to Dublin in the late 80s. She adored the diversity and energy of London and found her next career step in a small housing association, working on a lot of local authority projects.
In the back of her head was always the desire to finish her university education so she headed to Newcastle university where she studied surveying. This widened her housing career where she branched out into working on assets and development appraisals. She shares she spent the next 30 years working within the public sector.
Housing is a fundamental piece of the property sector
Fiona explains the value of housing and how our lives start with a safe and secure home. Somewhere free of disrepair, dampness, and mould and somewhere your family feels safe. Even down to having a productive education where you aren’t moving all the time due to temporary accommodation, and you have the space to do your homework. It’s such a fundamental part of what we do, as well as being an incredible asset that has value, especially in a place like London.
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Barum discusses what he thinks good learning is, how learning has evolved to bite-sized learning and how the leadership team at deverellsmith has a responsive approach to their employee development.
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The day was given the ‘Blue Monday’ label by a travel company with the aim to boost sales and typically takes place on the third Monday of the year. Although a myth, we understand that January Blues can still be a reality for many.
The Samaritan’s started their #BrewMonday campaign to remind us to reach out for a cuppa and a catch-up with the people we care about.
Our Employee Wellbeing Ambassador, Ryan Doyle, was on a mission to create a positive spin this year, as well as raise awareness and bring an expert into our ‘devcast studio’.
He invited Will Castle, Director at CBRE and Movember Ambassador, to speak with him about his mental health journey, how he became a reputable Movember ambassador, and what advice he has learned along the way that he can share with our listeners who may be feeling affected by the January blues.
Will’s journey with mental health
Will openly shared his journey with mental health began after he lost his father to suicide 12 years ago. After not speaking about it for 10 years after it happened, he gradually began to open up to others around him, which gave him comfort and also allowed him to help other people navigate their challenges. He is now a strong believer in mental health and works part-time for the Movember charity, doing various talks throughout the month to spread the word.
What influential things have you learned throughout your journey?
Something to remember is that everyone’s journey is different, and Will shares this is the most important thing he has learned in his experience over the years. Individuals will react to situations in different ways. Another key learning point Will keeps in mind is what people choose to show you just about scratches the surface. Especially your colleagues you see every day, we all walk into work and want to be the best version of ourselves, even if that version isn’t the real version of you. We see in terms of ‘Brew Monday’ after we all come back after a wonderful break with friends and family, we might put on a smile for clients and colleagues, but we may be feeling unmotivated, a bit poorer and there should be no reason we can’t show a bit more vulnerability with people we know and trust.
Listen now to hear the entire podcast and more advice from Will about mental health in the workplace, and how we can support each other day to day …
If you are feeling low, you can use the following helplines to speak with someone:
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