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This episode of Cider Chat, was recorded in person with Abram Goldman-Armstrong at CiderCon2025 in Chicago. Hear his journey to cider. From growing up in Oregon’s Yamhill County to his current work in Norway’s Hardanger region at Alde Sider.
Abram began fermenting cider as a student in Minnesota and went on to found the cidery known as Cider Riot in Portland, Oregon. His experience reflects both the evolution of the cider industry and the challenges of building a business grounded in values and community.
The Cider Riot YearsCider Riot grew from a home cider making project into a well-regarded cider brand and pub. Abram describes building the business, navigating challenges like rising rent and market shifts, and the significance of Cider Riot as a political and cultural hub. The pub hosted community meetings, union organizers, and events that reflected Portland’s activist spirit.
Standing Against Far-Right ViolenceOn May 1, 2019, Cider Riot became the site of a violent confrontation when members of the far-right group Patriot Prayer, led by Joey Gibson, clashed with patrons during a May Day celebration. The altercation resulted in injuries, including a woman being knocked unconscious. Abram filed a $1 million lawsuit against Gibson and others involved, alleging that they had instigated the attack. The incident drew national attention and highlighted the challenges faced by businesses taking a stand against hate groups.
Relocating to NorwayAfter Cider Riot closed in late 2019, Abram accepted an offer to collaborate with cider makers in Norway. He began working with a small brewery before moving west to Hardanger, where he now produces cider at Alde Sider. The region has a long history of apple growing and is the first in Norway to receive a protected designation for cider.
In this Cider Chat Early influences in Oregon: Working with Alan Foster of White Oak Cider, planting bittersweet varieties like Kingston Black. DIY beginnings: Making cider in college using apples from the dining hall and a cheese grater. Founding Cider Riot: From garage startup to a full-scale cidery and pub in Portland, Oregon. Pub culture & Portland community: Supporting labor organizing, queer and trans spaces, and anti-fascist events. Financial challenges: Draft-focused sales model, missed retail opportunities, and the impact of hard seltzers. Closure of Cider Riot: Reflections on its cultural significance and decision to shut down in 2019. Move to Norway: Invited to launch a cider program with a brewery in Sandefjord, leading to Tall Ship Cider. Transition to Alde Sider: Current role as lead cider maker in Hardanger, Norway’s key cider region. Hardanger cider traditions: Protected cider designation and historic use of apples like Gravenstein and Discovery. Production methods at Alde: Use of Nottingham ale yeast Chaptalization with Danish beet sugar High-acid juice (~pH 3.1–3.2) Residual sweetness target of 1.003 SG Crossflow filtration to halt fermentation Barrel aging program: Experiments with French agricole rum and Norwegian whiskey barrels. Community cider scene: Five producers in the village of Nå, collaboration across the fjord, and cider tourism via fjord boat. Cultural observations: Comparing pub cultures, lifestyle differences between Norway and Portland. Low-ABV cider innovation: Creating a 4.7% cider for draft sales in collaboration with 7 Fjell Brewery. Use of wild yeast: Petnat-style experiment using orchard yeast and natural inoculation. Future plans: Continuing to explore cider styles in Norway, working with bittersweets, and developing new blends. Contact Info Abram Website: https://www.aldesider.no Mentions in this Cider Chat 317: How a “Cyder” Teapot fueled the American Revolution Stone Ridge Orchard Wassail May 3rd & 4th – tickets https://www.clover.com/online-ordering/Event-Tickets Episode: 450th Roger Wilkins – The Cider King -
John Edwards, longtime cider maker and integral team member at Ross on Wye Cider & Perry Co., and the creative force behind his personal label Fly be Night Cider was last on the podcast in 2019.
John Edwards In this Cider Chat with John Edwardsohn is part of the tight-knit crew at Ross Cider who keep things running from orchard to bottle. The team has embraced a belt press system, which John finds surprisingly nimble—even for small batches. While Ross is rooted in tradition, they’re also evolving their process to match the scale and diversity of their orchard.
Transitioning to stainless steel fermentation tanks Working with old and rediscovered apple varieties Committed to wild yeast and natural fermentation Managing fire blight Diversifying the orchard’s apple stock with varieties like Kingston Black, Golden Ball, and Cider Lady’s Finger. Fly Be Night: A Creative OutletFly by Night remains John’s personal cider expression—just a few barrels a year, shared with friends. Each release gets a new label (last year’s was “Space Goat”), and while the iconic “0% Sh*t” label is retired, the spirit of fun and integrity lives on.
A Cellar Surprise for Ross Fest 2025?John has one cider still in the cellar: a 2014 Foxwhelp that might just see bottles soon. Whether blending at Ross or bottling at home, John’s work reminds us that cider thrives on community, curiosity, and a bit of mystery.
Mentions in this Cider Chat Episode 195: Fly Be Night Cider | 0% Sh**, UK Totally Cider Tour UK Edition -
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Rainy Days Goes Best with Dry Cider in the Barrel Room
Walking into the barrel room at Oliver’s Cider and Perry Company, you might think you know what to expect. But surrounded by whitewashed stone walls, standing beneath the old Hessian sacking floor, and facing rows of aging barrels, I quickly realized this wasn’t just a cidery—it’s a living, breathing creative space for cider making.
Tom Oliver sources fruit both from his farm and from local orchards across Herefordshire. This isn’t an estate cidery where everything is grown on-site—but what sets Oliver’s cider and perry apart is Tom himself. A master blender with an instinct for balance, he brings character to every bottle. And while the farm may not produce every apple, it certainly imparts its own terroir through the land, the barns, and the quiet, purposeful rhythm of the work.
Tom and Ria In this Cider ChatBlending Tradition with Innovation
Tom is now experimenting with distillation: apple brandy, pommeau-style blends, and barrel-aged perry into brandy too! He’s careful with naming, refusing to call something a “Pommeau” unless it honors French tradition. Barrels sourced from rum, sherry, port, bourbon, and white wine shape each unique blend.Tasting in the Barrel Room
In the barrel roomWe tasted perries straight from the barrel—some from single ancient trees, others blended with gin pears or red pear varieties. Each sip revealed:
Confectionary sweetness Banana, melon, pineapple notes Mellow malolactic fermentationThis isn’t a showpiece cidery as Tom puts it, “It’s a working farm“, evolving from a hop yard and now cider. Tom calls it “just a part of the agricultural calendar.” No pretense, just purpose.
Tom Oliver straddles the line between tradition and experimentation with ease. Whether it’s a single-varietal showcase or a spirit-kissed blend, the goal remains the same: make cider that speaks of time, place, and people.
Contact info for Oliver’s Cider and Perry Co. Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk Mentions in this Cider Chat 2025 Totally Cider Tour_UK Edition Send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for the next cider tour! Tom Oliver Featured episodes: 029 Tom Oliver| Oliver’s Cider and Perry, UK 105 Tom Oliver on Making Perry | UK 366 Acclaimed Cider w/Minimal Intervention | Tom Oliver -
Celebrating Perry’s Past, Present, and Future
Tom Oliver began his keynote by saying, "At this year’s Applefest Banquet, I had the honor of lifting a glass to the people behind the pear—specifically Perry. It wasn’t just a toast to the drink itself, but to the incredible commitment behind its preservation and craft."
Tom Oliver Three Perry LegendsCharles Martel
Known for his Stinking Bishop cheese and peri-based products. Catalogued disappearing peri pear varieties, creating the first national collection at the Three Counties Showground. His book on Gloucestershire pears remains a landmark work.Jim Chapman
Solicitor turned perry champion. Discovered the Hartbury Green pear and launched the Hartbury Orchard Centre. Now curates over 100 varietals displayed annually at the Malvern Autumn Show. Prefers dry, still perry—no bubbles, no fuss.Kevin Minchew
Perry pioneer bottling single varietals long before it was fashionable. Crafted standout perries like Gin and Huffcap in whiskey barrels. His final release, Last Hurrah, is a 23-year-aged marvel at 11% ABV. Why Perry Matters"Each of these individuals helped elevate Perry to something worth saving, savoring, and sharing. Their legacies shape not just what’s in our glass—but how we think about heritage, land, and tradition.
Let’s keep their torch lit. Raise your glass—Perry!" quote from Tom Oliver
AppleFest menu Contact info for Oliver’s Cider and Perry Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk Contact info for Hereford AppleFest Website: https://herefordcitycouncil.gov.uk/hereford-applefest-2025/ The AppleFest will be taking a pause for 2025 - stay tuned for 2026 Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours - UK Cider Tour 2025 Ciderganza at Ross Cider and Perry Co. Gabe Cook - Ciderologist Hereford Beer House - United Kingdom Jane Peyton Keynote Episode 440: Jane Peyton Keynote |Hereford AppleFest Banquet -
Drew Phillips opened the doors of Four Phantoms in Greenfield, Massachusetts in 2021. He began his fermentation career in the Pacific Northwest, and while waiting to open his own brewery, he took on the role as cider maker at Artifact Cider Project.
Drew PhillipsKnown for his creative ciders and beers, Drew blends tradition with innovation, sourcing local fruit and experimenting with wild fermentation. Check out his talk on the making of Old Gods .
In this episode, Drew shares how Four Phantoms’ unique approach reflects the terroir of Western Massachusetts.
Early Challenges of a Brewery/Cidery: Gaining a License Drew initially couldn’t produce cider legally due to licensing restrictions in Massachusetts. After securing a farmer winery license, he started making cider alongside beer and mead. All ciders are crafted from Pine Hill fruit in Colrain, Massachusetts. Signature Ciders and Fermentation Techniques Late Harvest – 6.5% Apples (Spy, Golden Russet and Baldwin) Tamlane – 6% 100% Macintosh apples, aged on black birch wood, giving it a herbal, German liqueur note. Redfield – 7.7% 100% Redfield apples – A red-fleshed apple cider with natural acidity and structure. Chapin’s Waltz – 8.5% A blend of Golden Russet, Baldwin, and Northern Spy, co-fermented with low intervention. King of the Wharf – 7.5% A Mac-based cider aged on rum-soaked oak chips, giving it a smooth, warming finish. Old Gods – 8% Inspired by Finnish farmhouse brewing, fermented on black birch. Listen to Episode 345 on how Old Gods a Co-Fermentation of Wort and Apple Juice was made! Ciders Tasted during this chat Low Intervention and Sense of Place Drew emphasizes low-intervention cider making — no back-sweetening, minimal sulfites, and natural wild cultures. The ciders reflect the unique qualities of Western Massachusetts apples and local wood aging. Poly tanks and oak aging contribute to the distinctive flavors and textures. Community and the Future of Four Phantoms Four Phantoms Tasting Area by the production room Drew values the connection between local agriculture and cider. He sees cider’s future as more craft-focused than beer, with room for independent voices. “Cider resists commercialization,” says Drew. “It’s about sense of place.” Contact Info for Four Phantoms Website: https://fourphantoms.net Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Cider Route Itinerary send a request to Cider Chat Cider Rap Song – by Robert Sherman of EsoTerra Ciderworks in Durango, Colorado -
In this Season 10 premier of Cider Chat, "Introductions" are featured from over 40 persons in attendance at the annual 2025 Berkshire Roundtable.
Kicking off Season 10 of Cider ChatThe opportunity to begin Season 10 with "Hellos" from a wide range of people in the cider community is the perfect fit for this milestone episode.
Here at Cider Chat Central we hope that this Season opener acts as a reminder that there is a wealth of knowledge at hand at a grass roots level in every region of the US.
Of course, this holds true for other countries as well and right about now this reminder feels very timely.
In Wisdom Lies Hope — hope for sustaining orchard ecosystems, hope that information can be passed on, history can be preserved and through shared learning and collaboration we can all create a better world.
We wish you all strength in knowing that so many others are working toward the same goal of stewarding this earth with care and intention. That shared purpose is a source of hope and resilience, even when the path ahead feels uncertain.
What is the Berkshire Roundtable?The Berkshire Roundtable is an annual gathering held each March at Stump Sprouts, a rustic retreat center in Buckland, Massachusetts. This event brings together orchardists, cider makers, and industry professionals to exchange ideas and strengthen community ties.
Meetings take place over the course of a day and a half, in a large room at the retreat with everyone sitting in a round circle.
Berkshire Roundtable group photo New Beginning for the Berkshire RoundtableThe Berkshire Roundtable has been taking place for the past 35 years! Micheal Phillips was integral in starting this meetup of orchardist and makers.
In 2012, the Holistic Orchard Network (HON) was founded by Michael Phillips. His influential book, The Holistic Orchard, continues to be sought after by orchardists around the world. Find more of his books at the Cider Books Resource page on this website.
Michael passed away unexpectedly while out in his New Hampshire orchard on February 27 2022. Today, HON continues on with leadership from Micheal Biltonen and others. Michael's work is continuing on by his wife Nancy and daughter Gracie Phillips and the HON work today.
Gracie and Nancy Phillips Contact Info for HON and Heartsong Farm/Lost Nation Orchard Holistic Orchard Network with Berkshire Roundtable info : https://holisticorchardnetwork.org/ Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard Mentions in this Cider Chat 392: Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | Ohio 408: Cider’s Pomological Life Coach | Know Your Roots, NY 312: Angels Dressed Like Bears | Michael Phillips 1957-2022 Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard workshops Follow MJ in Australia @getontheciders and his cidery @ciderinfusion Follow Adrian Luna @hardciderguy -
Looking back at Season 9 and Forward with Roger Wilkins
In this season ending episode we visit Roger Wilkins at his Lands End Farm.
Cider King – Roger WilkinsRoger Wilkins, is known globally as the “Cider King,” and is a legendary figure in Somerset cider-making. He has been running Wilkins' Cider Farm in Mudgley since taking over from his grandfather in 1969. Renowned for his traditional methods, Roger ferments locally grown bittersweet apples in oak barrels, producing unfiltered, unsweetened farmhouse cider. His no-nonsense style and commitment to authenticity have made Wilkins' Cider Farm a pilgrimage site for cider enthusiasts world wide.
Though he has mentioned plans to scale down production, Roger was carrying buckets of apples into the cidery when Ria visited him in October of 2024. This episode features Roger discussing the difficulty for farmers and working with what he calls “Pen Floaters”.
Season 9 RecapThroughout this episode you will hear guest from Season 9, which started with Episode #401. From Chile, the UK, France and Eastern Europe and throughout the U.S.A., Cider Chat has featured guests who both make cider, promote cider, provide leadership for cider and enjoy cider.
With this episode 450 of Cider Chat we are showcasing the oral history of cider in 2025.
So grab a glass and Join the Chat, as we ring out one season and prepare for the next!
Mentioned in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Cider Chat Podcast Archives – Find over 450 episodes. Use the search bar for up top and plug in a work or name to find an episode on that topic! 438: The Secret Sauce to Cider’s Growth is #xpromotecider -
The Role of the Museum of Cider Elizabeth Pimblett’s background and her journey to the museum The history of the museum, founded in 1887 by the Bulmer brothers The significance of the building and its historic cider cellars What Visitors to the Museum Can Expect Permanent exhibits: farmhouse stone press, cider brandy distillery, archival collections Rotating exhibitions, including photography and past exhibits like Women in the Art of Cider The Museum’s Hidden Treasures and Highlights 18th-century cider glasses with engraved historical messages Rare cider books from the 1600s and 1700s, donated by Bertram Bulmer The underground rooms that were part of Bulmers original cider caves that had spanned over 3 miles at one time. The massive cider press at the entrance Cafe Cider to purchase Contact info for Museum of Cider Website: https://www.museumofcider.co.uk/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours 317: How a “Cyder” Teapot fueled the American Revolution
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The Cider Institute: Training the Next Generation of Cider Makers
The Cider Institute, formerly known as the Cider Institute of North America (CINA), is the premier resource for cider education. Founded in 2016 at CiderCon, the Institute focuses on training cider makers of all levels, from beginners to advanced professionals. With a growing global reach, the Institute now offers online and in-person courses, making cider education more accessible than ever.
In this episode we speak with the Cider Institute’s Executive Director Brighid O’Keane.
Executive Director Brighid O’Keane Core Offerings: Cider Education for All LevelsThe Cider and Perry Production Foundation Course is the flagship program, covering everything from apple selection to fermentation, chemistry, microbiology, and post-production techniques. This 12-week online course includes weekly Zoom sessions with industry experts, ensuring hands-on engagement even in a virtual format.
For those just getting started, the upcoming Cider Making 101 will be a self-directed, beginner-friendly course, introducing enthusiasts to the fundamentals of cider without the deep technical dive of the foundation course.
For experienced cider makers, advanced courses cover topics like:
Safety & Sanitation – Ensuring proper practices in cider production Sensory Analysis – Understanding cider flavor profiles Laboratory Testing – Learning critical quality control techniques Operations-Focused Hands-On Training – A five-day immersive experience A Global Perspective on Cider TrainingWith increasing international interest, the Cider Institute is expanding worldwide. Upcoming in-person classes for 2025 will be offered at Brock University (Canada), Washington State University, and Virginia Tech, with plans for courses in the UK and beyond. The Institute also runs production tours, fostering knowledge exchange between cider makers across regions.
(Left to right) Board Members – Christine Walter, Brighid O’Keane E.D., Nick Gunn, Chris Gerling, Steven Trussler, Nicole Leibon, Dave Takush, Kira Bassingthwaighte Contact Info for the Cider Institute Website: https://www.ciderinstitute.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Kordick Family Farm – newsletter sign up at https://kordickfamilyfarm.com/ Note the apple pretzels in the tree below Know Your Roots Consulting – newsletter sign up at -
Michigan Cider: The Great Cider State with Paula Englin
Michigan has earned its place as a leader in the cider industry, boasting the highest number of hard cider businesses in the U.S. In this episode, Paula Englin, Executive Director of the Michigan Cider Association, discusses the state’s growth in cider, the role of education, and how Michigan cider makers are shaping the industry with events like the well known cider competition GLINTCAP – Great Lakes International Cider and Perry competition.
MCA Executive Director Paula EnglinWith nearly 195 cider businesses and a thriving community, Michigan truly is The Great Cider State
Growing Michigan Cider: Collaboration & EducationThe Michigan Cider Association was founded over a decade ago to bring cider makers together, advocate for legislative needs, and expand consumer awareness. Today, the association focuses on education, providing opportunities for cider makers at all levels—from home enthusiasts to large-scale producers.
One of the recent big initiatives has been working with the Cider Institute, formely known as the Cider Institute of North America (CINA), to offer subsidized cider education. Michigan cider makers have benefited from foundational courses, cider guide certifications for taproom staff, and marketing efforts that drive cider sales across the state.
Mapping Michigan’s Cider SceneMichigan’s unique geography, shaped by the Great Lakes, creates an ideal environment for growing apples. Many cider makers source their fruit locally, often within 30 minutes of their production sites. Here’s how the cider landscape breaks down:
To use this Hand Map – Hold up your left hand, palm facing outward, with fingers together and thumb extended—this mimics Michigan’s Lower Peninsula, often called “The Mitten,” with Detroit near the base of the thumb and Traverse City near the tip of your pinky.
Metro Detroit (Thumb region) – A hub for orchards and cideries, home to well-known producers. Southwest Michigan (Pinky side of the mitten) – A mix of wineries and cideries, taking advantage of the region’s wine industry crossover. Grand Rapids & the Fruit Ridge (Center of the mitten) – A major apple-growing region supplying cideries statewide. Traverse City (Top of the mitten) – A destination for cider lovers, known for high-quality cider apples and innovative makers. Cider Events That Put Michigan on the MapMichigan’s cider industry thrives on consumer engagement, and events play a major role in getting more people to appreciate and support local cider.
Michigan Apple Festival (Sparta, MI) – A harvest celebration featuring local apple growers, cider producers, and even an apple peeling contest! Cider Week Grand Rapids (May 9-17, 2025) – A week of cider-focused events, including pairing dinners, tap takeovers, and a board game night at House Rules in Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids Wine, Beer & Food Festival – Showcasing a variety of Michigan ciders to educate new consumers and cider fans alike. GLINTCAP: Great Lakes International Cider and Perry competitionMichigan is also home to GLINTCAP (Great Lakes International Cider & Perry Competition), the world’s largest cider competition. Paula now oversees the event, which continues to grow, introducing a low and no-ABV category for the first time in 2025.
One major shift? Judging is now fully digital, improving feedback delivery and accuracy. The competition also expanded international accessibility, making it easier for cider makers worldwide to participate.
Contant the Michigan Cider Association Website: https://michiganciders.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for spots opening on this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 and future cider tours. Letter from Patron Rod – Become a patron of Cider Chat via Cider Chat Patreon Stone Ridge Orchard May Wassail – follow on Instagram Episode 296 Bauman’s |Oregon’s Destination Farm Cidery -
Monica Cohen on Leading the ACA
Monica Cohen, the new CEO of the American Cider Association (ACA), stepped into her role at CiderCon 2025 in Chicago. With a background in dairy marketing and a passion for helping craft industries grow, she brings fresh energy and a bold vision to the cider world.
Her introduction to cider mirrors a challenge the industry faces—many consumers assume all cider is the same.
She’s on a mission to change that.
American Cider Association CEO, Monica Cohen Priorities for 2025Monica laid out her key focus areas for the ACA:
Enhancing membership value – Ensuring small and large cideries alike benefit from ACA resources. Growing ACA membership – Making the association indispensable to cider makers. Strengthening advocacy – Fighting for fair industry regulations, including tax structures. Increasing consumer awareness – Changing public perception and getting cider on more menus. Cider’s Big OpportunityMonica believes cider’s time is now. She emphasizes that innovation, consumer education, and stronger industry collaboration will be key to the next phase of growth.
CiderCon Takeaways & The Path ForwardAt CiderCon 2025, Monica had an “aha moment” during Cider Share, experiencing firsthand the incredible diversity of cider. She sees the event as more than just a conference—it’s a place for the cider community to connect, share ideas, and shape the industry’s future.
Looking ahead to CiderCon 2026 in Providence Rhode Island, Monica wants to grow attendance, attract new industry partners, and ensure the event remains relevant and impactful for all makers big or small.
Contact the American Cider Association Website: https://ciderassociation.org Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for spots opening on this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025. -
An Unspoken Creed By Sune Kroghansen
Enjoy this special Story in Ciderville from Denmark!
“Roedding
The restart of the cider adventure in Rødding.
In the mid-00s, the villagers of Rødding had begun making cider. It faded due to the focus on grafting, planting and nursing the thousands of apple trees in the apple village.In the fall of 2018, focus was about to change again, apple trees was maturing and a decrease nursing left time for something else. Organized by the association: “Æblets by” — “The Apple Village” a congregation was held, 2 score of interested participants met in the community house of the small village of Rødding in Salling. Amongst was participants living close by in the parish, living in the municipality, the region, and a scarce few from far away. The desire to use the apples for more than just planting.
Apple juice production was already a major activity in the village, inspiring the entreprenant townsfolks to move further. Creating activity, community and jobs from the apples grown.Those present discussed opportunities of diversifying activities, moving into cider production along with vinegar, jam, jelly. During the fall of 2018 and winter of 2019, the first cider was fermented.
Apples from the gene bank Pometet Nursery part of, University of Copenhagen. Was used I these ferments.Inspired by, among others: Andrew Lea, Cider Chat, Cold Hand Winery, University of Copenhagen Department of Plant Sciences.
Fermentation and experimentation started with a steep learning curve: Oe, capsules, corks, aglets, disgorging, remuage, tirage, liquere de expedition, brownhat, so2, eggysmell, ester, alcohol taxes, VAT, tankcleaning, oak, food safety control, acid.
We tasted, laughed, spit, drank, smelled with a focus on the experience and excitement of the taste experience.
We try to greet a new taste or flavour: “I don’t know you, what can you do? What makes you shine?”Of course, everyone has a favorite taste. But experience has taught us. That there is great variation, and “good taste” depends on what the cider is to be used for.
The Cider Club meets regularly. Both with a focus on cozy togetherness but also with a focus on technical details, training cider crafting techniques and in taste and sensory.
Promoting spreading the joy of fermented apples.I don’t know if the word “Creed” or “credo” was discussed, I don’t think so! however a “spirit” has been underlying everything though unspoken:
The unspoken creed
It should taste good.
It should be as local as possible.
It should preferably be in unmanipulated.Although “natural” is a well-worn word. It is the idea/spirit/dream that we should strive to find:
The apple or apple cultivars that make good cider. The cultivar should also be able to:
Grow on a healthy, unpruned, untended tree, where we live.
They should be easy to press into apple juice.
The juice should ferment alone without adding anything other than time.
It should be able to keep without any other preservation than a lid.It may be construde as a naive dream that does not abide into modern production society, nor does it fit efficient agriculture.
And probably not even practically possible.So there have been deviations from the idea along the way. Mostly to follow the first part of the unspoken creed: “it must taste good”
Like a vanilla bean, that tastes fantastic but is not particularly widespread growing in the Danish landscape.
So if kakifruits, sulfur, sugar, oak, pineapple, oranges, erythritol, lactose, pasteurization, elderflowers. Are necessary to achieve “good cider” then so be it.
The Cider Club is a spirit, and a loose part of an international movement of cider from pure apple juice. We strive to include everyone, and avoid selfishness, selfsufficientness. We are not signers of the “New Nordic Food Manifesto of 2004” but looking back it has influenced us tremendously.
With a mixture of epicurean joy of life and the joys of the table. Sustainable thinking and naive optimism.
The best we can do, each thing in its own time.BUT we originate from the village of apples so the foundation is the diversity of the old apple cultivars.
The hope is to, create something people will choose to enjoy.
And
It should be fun along the way.
Without ruining anything for the world of tomorrow.Wasalling!”
Have a story to tell for the “Stories in Ciderville” segment? Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to [email protected] Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 Chicago Cider Week Chicago Cider Summit CiderCon2025 -
A sit down Cider Chat with the makers behind Worleys and Honey’s Cider!
Neil Worley was last on this podcast back in 2016 on episode 26! He and Ria met up at CiderCon which was being held that year in Portland Oregon. Neil’s episode on Keeving, a basic how-to, has been a perennical favorite for listeners. Kimberly Jones took over Honey’s Cider in 2019 for Bob Honey. Both makers are based in Somerset and each have their own unique style and approach to making Cider.
Neil and Kim Craft Ciders Made at Worley and Honey’sWorley Cider:
Special Reserve Keeved Cider – winner of the Golden Fork award Medium Dry Bottled Cider Find Worley at Frome Weekly MarketHoney’s Ciders
Midford Cider (Medium Dry) Cam Valley Cider Stony Bonk (Cider-Ginger Beer Blend) Kimberly Jones In this Cider Chat with Worleys and Honey’sNeil and Kim have observed a shift in cider preferences, with still ciders flourishing outdoors. Neil’s experiments in keeving and controlled oxidation highlight the scientific precision he applies to cider making. Meanwhile, Kim is expanding Honey’s range with blends tailored to local heritage.
How to find Worleys and Honey’s CiderVisit the Froome Independent Market from March to December on the first Sunday of each month for a chance to taste their creations.
cider to go in classic Bag in Box Contact info for Worleys and Honey’s Cider Worleys – https://www.worleyscider.co.uk/ Honey’s – http://www.honeyscider.co.uk Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 Chicago Cider Week Chicago Cider Summit CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat -
Albert Johnson on Ross on Wye Cider & Perry Offerings
This is the 3rd time we have featured Albert Johnson because it is always a treat to hear about the happenings at Ross on Wye Cider and Perry. In particular, we catch up on the accommodations
Albert Johnson In this Cider Chat
on site for visitors and of course the wide range of single varietal ciders.Visitor Experiences and Accommodations
Discussion on camping, bed & breakfast options, and orchard chalets. Includes details on the Yew Tree pub and its offerings.Cider Offerings and Unique Styles
Explanation of single varietal ciders, dry cider philosophy, and production techniques.Events and Festivals
Highlights of monthly cider clubs, Ciderganza, Summertime Soiree, and the Ross Cider Fest.Cider Pairing Insights
Recommendations for pairing cider with specific dishes, including creamy pastas, fish, and spicy curries.Social Media and Community Engagement
Albert’s approach to outreach via tastings, social media, and fostering personal connections.Future Plans and Challenges
Focus on growth strategies, challenges in the UK cider market, and maintaining the unique identity of Ross on Wye.Conclusion and Final Thoughts
B&B Breakfast by Aunt Hillary at Broome Farm B&B Event Calendar at Ross Ross Cider Fest: Starts the Thursday after the August Bank Holiday (varies yearly, e.g., August 28 in 2025). Ciderganza: Easter weekend. Summertime Soiree Ross-tober-fest: Contact for Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company Yew Tree Pub, Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Co. Website: rosscider.com Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 Snowcapped Cider | Colorado CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat Past Episodes with Albert Johnson 410: International Perry Panel | CiderCon 2024 404: Ross Cider and Perry is Lit! 194: The Reason for Being | Ross on Wye Cider & Perry, UK
Reflection on the importance of community, passion for cider, and welcoming visitors to Ross on Wye. -
Bob Cork’s Cider Career Bob Cork Bob Cork has 40 years of experience in cider making, starting in 1980. Initially an apprentice engineer, he transitioned to cider making, thanks to his engineering background. He now works as a cider-making consultant, still contributing to the legacy of Showering Cider Mill. The Evolution of Showering Cider Mill and Babycham Entrance to Showering Mill Showering Cider Mill, made an undeniable mark for a perry called Babycham. The mill has evolved over the years, modernizing its equipment while maintaining traditional cider-making techniques. During the production of Babycham, horizontal tanks for producing this widely popular drink. At the time they were laid outside and eventually a buidlign was built around the tanks. The Shepton Mallet Cider Mill is the second largest mill in the UK and over the years it expanded to include a variety of ciders, while continuing to produce Babycham, the popular Fever brand and today a traditional cider called Showering Triple Vintage. The Traditional and Modern Blend: The Triple Vintage Matthew, Daniel, Jonathan Showering and Ria Windcaller
The Triple Vintage cider, created by the Showerings blends three vintages to produce a high-quality product.
Bob Cork in this episode discusses how it is made using bittersweet and bittersharp apples, fermented with a wee bit of natural yeast and then a cultured yeast. The cider is matured to achieve a balanced, high-quality cider. Key to the cider-making process, is low-temperature fermentation and controlled maturation.
Bob Cork’s Advice for Aspiring Cider Makers Bob advises aspiring cider makers to approach the craft with passion, as it requires significant investment and a long-term commitment. He emphasizes the importance of a solid business plan and understanding the market’s cyclical nature. Despite the challenges, he believes in the future of cider, with increasing consumer interest in high-quality, craft ciders. Mention in this Cider Chat CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 Wassail episode: episode 393: How to Wassail and Drink Hail -
Wilding Cider, founded by Sam and Beccy Leach in 2019, uses Regenerative farming practices and a “rural method” to cider making. Based in Somerset the culinary skills of Sam blend with Beccy’s Sommelier palate. Their dedication to traditional orchards and natural fermentations has led to the creation of their standout orchard based ciders and perrys. This process sets Wilding apart, showcasing a commitment to purity, sustainability, and the land.
Beccy and Same Leach The Orchard at Wilding Size & Scope: 7.5 acres at the home orchard and additional rented orchards. Varieties: Kingston Black, Stoke Red, Porter’s Perfection, and so many more. Regenerative Practices Sam in the home orchardThe orchards provide the perfect environment for Wilding’s cider-making, ensuring low-intervention fermentations that align with the Rural Method philosophy.
What is the Rural Method of Cider MakingSam credits Skyborry cider in Wales for coining the phrase “rural Method”. He explains in this chat that at Wilding Cider Rural Method is an energy-efficient, traditional approach to crafting naturally sweet ciders. It utilizes:
Cold Winter Fermentations: Utilizing natural temperatures to slow fermentation. Low Nitrogen Content: Achieved by using unfertilized orchards for balanced fermentations. Minimal Intervention: Avoiding filtration, sulfites, or pasteurization.This method produces clean, complex ciders that capture the essence of Somerset orchards.
Signature Wilding Ciders and PerryWilding Cider showcases the Rural Method through their unique blends and single varietals:
Symphony: A bittersweet blend. Comics: Multi-orchard cider built on Browns and Yarlington. Single Varietals: Stoke Red and Kingston Black. Perry Cider: Carefully macerated to achieve depth and balance.These ciders are celebrated for their balance of tannins, acidity, and natural sweetness, hallmarks of the Rural Method.
Contact and how to find Wilding Cider Website: http://wildingcider.com Open Days: Second Saturday of the month, April through September. UK: Independent shops and restaurants. International: Belgium, Japan, and limited availability in the U.S. Mentions in this Cider Chat CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 -
Jane Peyton, author of The Philosophy of Cider and founder of the School of Booze, brings her deep knowledge of cider and its cultural history to the forefront in this enlightening conversation.
Jane Peyton at Hereford AppleFest Banquet 2024 Key Points CoveredCider’s Cultural Significance
The apple as a symbol in global traditions and languages. Historical mentions, from Norse mythology to Captain Cook's voyages.Defining Cider
Cider is pressed, not brewed, differentiating it from beer. Diverse expressions of cider, from tannic and dry to sweet and fizzy.The Legacy of Susanna Forbes
A heartfelt tribute to Susanna Forbes' impact on the cider world.Jane’s Philosophy on Cider
Advocating for better representation of cider on menus. Mainstream vs. artisanal cider perspectives.The School of Booze
Jane’s initiative to educate on cider, beer, and more. Her work as a writer and accredited pommelier. Highlights from the Philosopher of Cider Recommended Reads and Tastings: The Philosophy of Cider and Jane’s other publications. Examples of cider diversity, including champagne-method ciders. Memorable Quotes: “Slow cider is sunlight in a glass, the liquid expression of the orchard's soul.” “Cider is not apple beer—it’s pressed, not brewed.” Ciders and Perries Mentioned: Little Pomona’s offerings Ross on Wye ciders Contact for Jane Peyton Website School of Booze B.A. Summers novels Sole Brethren: Left To Their Own Devices & Sole Brethren: If The Shoe Fits Mentions in this Cider Chat Hereford Applefest 2024 film - https://www.herefordshirelifethroughalens.org.uk/cider-perry/ CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat Totally Cider Tour to the UK - send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 -
The magic of Ciderville awaits you.
In this special holiday episode, Cider Chat invites you to step into the enchanting world of the Talking Pommes. The Night Before the Holiday Pressing is more than just a story—it’s a celebration of all things pome, community, tradition, and the joy that comes with every glass of cider.
The cider house hums with anticipation as Ria, Perry Pear, Mr. Quince, and the Medlars prepare the night before their annual pressing. But as every year before there is always magic in the air for Ciderville. With the Talking Pommes truly anything can happen and so it does!
With snow blanketed orchards, and just the right amount of “Believe” a sleigh pulled by apples glides through the starry sky.
Raise a glass and join us on this festive adventure—because in Ciderville, the magic is always just a sip away.
Meet the Stars of the Cider HouseThis holiday episode of Cider Chat brings together some of Ciderville’s most delightful characters:
Apple: The vibrant leader with a twinkle in their eye. The Medlars: Sweet, quirky, and always ready with a witty remark. Mr. Quince: The wise and slightly stern elder who keeps everyone on track. Perry Pear: Full of charm and flair, a natural performer. A Wide Assortment of Pommes: From Dabinett to Kingston Black, they bring their unique personalities to the mix. The Gift of Holiday Cider MagicThis story is for anyone who cherishes the magic of the season. As Apple says, “Every glass of cider holds a story, and this one’s for you.”
From Cider Chat to all of Ciderville, we hope this episode brings joy to your holiday season. Raise a glass, gather ‘round, and join the Talking Pommes and Ria in Ciderville!
Mentions in this Cider Chat CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat Totally Cider Tour to the UK - send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 -
The Recipe for #xpromotecider
Collaboration isn’t just a buzzword—it’s the recipe for growth. In this episode of Cider Chat, we explore how the #xpromotecider campaign over the course of 2024.
What is #xpromotecider?The #xpromotecider campaign started as a way to encourage cider brands and enthusiasts to cross share episodes of Cider Chat so that Cider Chat could in turn share news about their brand. The end goal was to help educate cider fans about the resources and how-tos of cider making
Brands and fans were invited to repost Cider Chat episodes and/or download the informative Cider Chat.pdf and then tack it to a bulletin board in a tasting room.
Why Cross-Promotion is the Secret IngredientCross-promotion isn’t just about visibility—it’s about creating a shared identity for the cider industry. Here’s why it matters:
Building Regional Destinations
Regions like the Finger Lakes, Michigan, and Normandy have become cider tourism hotspots because of collaborative efforts among cideries. By promoting each other, these regions attract visitors and grow collectively. Reaching New Audiences
Sharing others’ stories helps introduce cider to new audiences who might not otherwise explore it. Cross-promotion creates opportunities to educate and inspire potential fans. Strengthening Community Bonds
When cider makers work together, it fosters a sense of unity that resonates with consumers. People want to support an industry that feels connected and supportive. The Risks of Staying Isolated or not cross promotingIsolation may seem like the safer route for some, but it comes with risks:
Missed Opportunities: Without collaboration, regions miss out on tourism and media exposure. Industry Stagnation: Staying focused only on individual brands limits the industry’s potential to grow and attract new customers. Disconnection: Consumers are less likely to engage with a fragmented industry that doesn’t show unity.By embracing cross-promotion, cider makers can avoid these pitfalls and contribute to a stronger, more vibrant community.
Spotlight on Cider ChampionsThroughout the year, many individuals and brands have stepped up to embrace #xpromotecider. Here are just a few examples:
@ciderexplorer consistently reshared weekly episodes, helping to spread the word. Cider makers downloaded and posted the Cider Chat PDF to engage their audiences and connect with their local communities.To see the full list of contributors, check out the YouTube version of this episode, where we showcase screenshots of posts from the past year. And stay tuned to our social media for more highlights!
How to Join the Cross Promote CampaignReady to get involved? Here are a few ways to join #xpromotecider:
Share this blog post or the podcast episode with your audience. Use the hashtag #xpromotecider in your posts and tag your favorite cider brands. Download the Cider Chat PDF and display it in your tasting room to encourage guests to learn more about cider.Together, we can grow the cider community into 2025 and continue to build a stronger, more connected industry. Join the fun and start cross-promoting cider today
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After 8 Years at the helm Michelle McGrath is switching gears Michell McGrath
Michelle McGrath, CEO of the American Cider Association (ACA), reflects on her impactful leadership, the growth of the cider industry, and her next chapter. In this episode, Michelle shares insights into her journey, upcoming transitions, and the exciting plans for CiderCon 2024 in Chicago.
Key Milestones at ACA Membership Growth: ACA membership has significantly increased during Michelle’s tenure. CiderCon Success: The premier U.S. cider conference continues to thrive, with growing attendance and international collaborations. Sustainability Focus: Initiatives that support cider makers, orchardist/farmers and sustainability were central to ACA’s strategy. What’s Next for MichelleMichelle will be transitioning to Salmon Safe as Columbia Basin Program Director. This nonprofit focuses on land use practices that protect watershed health and salmon populations. Her passion for collaboration and supporting farmers continues to guide her work.
Up Coming Highlights for CiderCon 2025 Chilean cider tastings and sessions on the country’s apple heritage. A session on soil health by Ashley Lindsay, a pomological expert from Oregon State University. Tastings featuring Porter’s Perfection cider and quince cider varieties. Networking opportunities and workshops for cider makers worldwide. A Call to Action for the Cider CommunityMichelle encourages more diversity and representation in cider leadership roles, especially for women. She invites anyone interested in joining the ACA board or participating in industry initiatives to step forward and work with the board of directors.
Contact Info for the American Cider Association Website: https://ciderassociation.org Mentioned in this Cider Chat CiderCon2025 Promo Code – Once you get to the registration form, towards the end of the first page you’ll reach a section in the form that says “additional registration information” and there is a question: If you have a coupon, please enter code here (case-sensitive): CiderChat #xpromoteCider – Tips of the glass to the following brands! Do follow them on instagram! @lydiaapplecore Raven’s Moon Craft Cider & Blue Moon Farm British Columbia Rødding – Æblets By i Salling -Denmark cider club @1000StoneFarm Vermont restaurant and cidery #ciderGoingUP campaign page Cider Gift Ideas - Visa fler
