Avsnitt
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Steve Balliet is the Senior Manager of Hershey’s US Owned Retail in Hershey, PA. In his role, Steve runs both Hershey’s Chocolate World locations, with one in Hershey, PA, and one in Times Square in New York. Steve began his career at Dorney Park as a seasonal supervisor where he found his passion for the business, particularly in leadership. Later, Steve took an opportunity to move to Hershey, where he has been for more than 20 years. In this interview, Steve talks about working for a purpose, from the bean to the bar, and transformational leadership.
Working for a purpose
“When you think about Hershey, you think about fun, you think about chocolate, and you think about kids.”
The Milton Hershey School, founded in 1920 by Milton Hershey, is a boarding school for orphan boys. Currently, the school serves thousands of underprivileged kids from all around the country from kindergarten through 12th grade. The school is funded by the Hershey Company and Hershey Entertainment & Resorts in perpetuity.
For Hershey employees, whether they work in the theme park, hotel, factory, or any other business entity, they get to come to work every day knowing that their work serves even more than a profitable business, but that it truly goes to a cause that helps so many people in need.
From the bean to the bar
“Our stories are rooted in reality and authenticity.”
One of the most iconic aspects of Hershey’s Chocolate World is being able to take the factory tour, a dark ride that takes riders through the story of how chocolate is made. Steve refers to it as being an immersive experience, as it brings guests into a compelling story that is both educational and entertaining.
The factory tour was part of Milton Hershey’s vision of being able to showcase how the product is made to demonstrate the high-quality standard that goes into each and every piece of candy. In the 1970s, the popularity of the tour prompted the creation of Hershey’s Chocolate World to create the tour as a standalone experience. Over time, the ride has been updated to reflect continual changes to the story; however, the original track layout and ride system remains unchanged.
Transformational leadership
“My day exists to make my team look good.”
Steve refers to himself as a transformational leader and is passionate about developing the individuals in the teams that he supports. Steve defines transformational leadership as taking complex ideas and making them simple so they can be understood and implemented with ease.
Transformational leadership also incorporates continuous improvement. Steve stresses the importance of failing fast and learning from mistakes in the interest of growth and continual development. Steve says that you should strive to make the guest experience a little better than the day before.
To learn about Hershey’s Chocolate World, visit www.chocolateworld.com. To connect with Steve directly, you can email him at [email protected].
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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Björn Ingi Knútsson is one of the major reasons that Matt and his friends had such a positive experience in Iceland. He was the group's tour guide and was instrumental in either setting up or influencing many of the “Lessons from Iceland” Matt talked about in Episode 340. Bjorn is a native Icelander and has tremendous experience within the business and hospitality sectors, both in Iceland and around the world. He became a tour guide later in life when he was looking for something fun to do. He is also a certified wine expert and runs an attraction of his own, Vínskólinn Við Vatnið, which translates to “Wine School by the Lake”. In this episode, Bjorn talks about Icelandic tourism, conquering yourself and managing logistics.
Icelandic Tourism
“We have way more tourism in the Southwest of Iceland.”
Compared to the US, Icelandic tourism is in its infancy. In fact, the majority of tourists who come to visit Iceland stay in the Southwestern corner of the country, which is where you find the major airport, the capital city of Reykjavík and destinations like the Golden Circle and the Blue Lagoon Spa. But if you venture out to the East and North, you will encounter unparalleled (and undisturbed) beauty.
Icelandic tourism has gotten major boosts from a few things over the years. First, a volcano that erupted that drew people to the area, and second, a marketing campaign that highlighted Iceland as a convenient stop-over between New York and Europe. Of course, not every Icelander is keen on turning their home into a tourist destination. Bjorn told us of two farmers who owned the property on either side of a canyon. One embraced tourism, the other did not. It’s unfortunate, Bjorn said, because the farmer with the better view is the one who is against the influx of tourists.
Conquering yourself
“I have a mindset that I need to go outside of my comfort zone and tackle things.”
Bjorn has accomplished a lot in his life, both personally and professionally. From beating cancer to starting a new career late in life, Bjorn knows what it’s like to either be pushed out of his comfort zone, or to push himself beyond his current limits.
When Bjorn decided to test for his wine certification, he felt it was like going back to school. But, he said, in those situations you just have to read, research and learn in order to be ready for the next challenge. In many ways, Bjorn was inferring that we have to conquer our present self to grow into our future self.
Managing logistics
“Instead of calling Ops to do things, you take matters into your own hands.”
Whether directing the operations of Iceland’s largest airport or executing a tour for 18 people, Bjorn emphasizes the importance of personally managing the logistics that matter to the end user's experience. For example, in Iceland, the weather can be unpredictable, so it’s imperative to look ahead, use your resources and make contingency plans.
Even on Matt’s tour, there were sights and experiences that they had to miss because of closed roads. Luckily, Bjorn looked ahead, knew of some alternative options and made a plan. The result was a seamless, and extremely enjoyable, experience.
To learn more about Bjorn and his wine school, check out Vínskólinn Við Vatnið.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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Saknas det avsnitt?
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Zach Blutner is the Managing Director of Inter_. Zach has built his career in tourism, museums, attractions, and experiences, all in New York City. Inter_ is an AI-led immersive experience. The experience is led by “I,” who is from the future and has returned to tell guests what it has learned. Guests visiting Inter_ get to interact with projection mapping, interconnected orbs, an interactive floor, and visually stunning interactive elements that often connect to a deeper meaning, message, or story for guests to explore. In this interview, Zach talks about the Interverse, layers in storytelling, and creating a sandbox.
The Interverse
“Interactive immersive experiences aren’t a new concept, but it’s a term that’s become hot now.”
When people think of immersive, they think of one giant room with projection mapping. While that is one avenue of immersive entertainment, Inter_ combines many elements into what Zach describes as “interversive.” This includes projection mapping, but multiple elements for guests to explore and interact.
Inter_ then fuses physical and digital art, resulting in the term, “phygital.” This creates an environment where the guest feels like they are the main characters in a movie, where they want to both participate and take photos and videos to share the experience with others.
Layers in storytelling
“The approach that I've had to experiences for many years is to create layers in your storytelling.”
Each immersive attraction is unique in its own way, and they all seek to tell stories. Someone can visit Inter_ and experience it on the surface level and feel satisfied with their experience, whereas others can go deeper into the message and story that they seek to deliver, which extends far beyond their visit.
The main focus of Inter_ is to demonstrate that we are all connected and we are all one. This can be sensed through the multiple layers of storytelling that Inter_ delivers, allowing guests to interact with one another, even if they didn’t come together, to go as deep as they’d like into Inter_’s message.
Creating a sandbox
“If they know what the rules are and they know what the objective is, then they’re good to go.”
When discussing Inter_’s employee culture, Zach shares his philosophy of creating a sandbox, which focuses on making sure that team members are comfortable, and that they have the tools to engage within the experience. Leadership should provide them with the guidelines and areas that are required, and then let them explore their unique capabilities within the sandbox.
This mindset originated when Zach was a tour operator, where he said he never created a script for tour guides. While the parameters should be put in place for what’s required, all team members should be encouraged to be their authentic selves. If it is not authentic, guests begin to disengage, which negatively impacts their overall experience.
To learn about Inter_, you can visit interiam.co, or follow them on LinkedIn, TikTok, or Instagram. To connect with Zach directly, you can reach out on LinkedIn.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen KaraliunasAudio and video editing by Abby GigananTo connect with AttractionPros:
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We’re in the business of creating memories that last a lifetime. While that’s a nice, feel-good statement, it’s also the attractions industry’s business model. Once a guest leaves an attraction, their biggest takeaway is the memory of their experience, and our goal is to turn that memory into action: planning to visit again and influencing others to visit as well. And one of the best ways to solidify a memory is by capturing photos and/or videos of your guests.
It may seem like a simple act of courtesy, but in this “minisode,” Matt recalls moments from his recent trip to Iceland where he offered to take photos of other tourists, which sparked memories for him from doing the same thing for guests while working in theme parks. Offering to take a photo initiates an interaction, which allows for personalization, and therefore creates a moment that is greater than the photo itself.
Matt and Josh break down the benefits of capturing photos and videos of guests, and how they enhance the guest experience. The first is the photo itself, which, when taken by an employee, allows for the full group to be present and creates a higher-quality photo than a selfie. It also allows the employee to use their proficiency of their surrounding area, which is exemplified by Josh sharing how he took photos of guests during the fireworks in the Magic Kingdom when he worked in Tomorrowland. It also allows for the team member to build rapport with guests, learn about where they’re visiting from, and exceed the guests’ expectations, even if only by a small amount.
We want to hear from you! What seemingly small interactions can you have with your guests that have a large impact? Let us know by chiming in on LinkedIn, X, Facebook, or Instagram.
By the way, when taking photos of guests with their smartphones, please a) focus the picture to ensure that their faces aren’t blurry, and b) do not take 50 photos and hope that one of them comes out great. They’re usually all garbage. Just take a few, and make them count.
What do you think of this episode format? Let us know if you want us to produce more minisodes!
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Jill Raff is the Founder and CEO of the Jill Raff Group, where she helps organizations work from the inside out by focusing on the employee experience, which leads to an excellent customer experience. Jill grew up in the restaurant business and is a columnist for Nation’s Restaurant News. Today, Jill helps companies attract and retain the right people who align with their core values, making them the employer of choice and a company worth talking about. In this interview, Jill talks about expectations management, screening for values, and reacting vs. responding.
Expectations management“Without proper expectations management, people are going to project what they think on a scenario or how they are supposed to work.”
The idea of expectations management applies equally to the guest and employee experience alike. If a business is understaffed, the simplest way to communicate it to guests is that operations are reduced because of lower staffing. However, by going deeper into why staffing is not as strong as it should be, you can communicate to guests that they have yet to find the right candidates to fill positions and that they won’t compromise on the experience just so they can be fully operational.
Expectations management also can be looked at in comparison to wages, which have increased substantially for the majority of the industry in recent years. One school of thought suggests that higher wages should naturally assume a higher expectation of their performance, but it must be looked at in the context of what they are already responsible for and what additional responsibility they may take on. Training also plays a critical role, because if you pay employees more and expect more from them but don’t put in the effort to invest and train them on their increased standards, the pay increase will likely not yield an increase in performance.
Screening for values"You can't just hire people that you like and want to go to dinner with. They have to align with your core values."
To properly screen for values, Jill recommends role-playing and putting candidates in situations to observe how they act in certain circumstances they are likely to encounter on the job. Ask how they would handle certain scenarios or if they have had similar circumstances happen before, and if they haven’t, how would they act?
Judgment should not be made directly from their responses, because anyone can be trained and taught to act in accordance with the organization. However, these exercises allow recruiters to screen for character and how they truly feel serving other people, not just because they are getting paid to do it.
In some cases, if the need for staffing is critical and it is unclear if certain individuals align with the organization’s values, leaders can take on a new employee as a project to bring up to the standard of the organization and focus on their continual development. However, if they do not rise to the standard expected of them, it can be a detriment to the morale of high-performing team members who see that the standard is not being met by their coworkers.
Reacting vs. responding“Do they react or do they respond? There’s a big difference between those two.”
When screening for values, Jill notes the difference between reacting and responding to certain circumstances. When we react to something, it’s an immediate emotional reaction. With a response, we take a moment and think about what they said, and come at it with an emotionally intelligent response.
A reaction is a knee-jerk response that does not consider other factors, such as what else is happening whether during that day or in that individual’s life. To properly respond, individuals must pull back and look at all of the other factors that go into the moment that they are responding to.
To connect with Jill, visit www.jillraff.com, send her email at [email protected], or connect with her on LinkedIn.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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The “desperation hire,” also referred to as the “pulse test” or the need for “warm bodies” (please stop calling it that), is a challenge often faced throughout all areas of the industry, regardless of attraction type or geography. When staffing crunches hit, organizations scramble to fill positions quickly, which risks compromising standards and expectations in the interest of having a complete schedule.
In this “minisode,” Matt and Josh share suggestions for minimizing the desperation. This includes adjusting operating hours to meet available staffing resources and reducing areas where staff is necessary. Additionally, organizations can plan to over-recruit by expanding the pool of applicants needed to fill vacant job openings, implement routines to always be recruiting (ABR), and streamlining their onboarding process so that new hires can ramp up quickly and gain proficiency in an efficient manner.
We want to hear from you! How are you avoiding the desperation hire? Let us know by chiming in on LinkedIn, X, Facebook, or Instagram.
What do you think of this episode format? Let us know if you want us to produce more minisodes!
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Jon Pausley is the CEO of Arnolds Park Amusement Park, a gem of a location found in the Northwest corner of Iowa. In addition to the amusement park, the property also contains a shopping and dining district, a scenic boat tour on Lake Okoboji, a beach, 3 museums and indoor and outdoor concert venues. Jon’s attraction industry story dates back to growing up in Ohio where his family had season passes to Kings Island. He credits those early experiences with defining his love for the business and even said as a young student that he thought it would be fun to run an amusement park. Now with a Masters in Leadership, Jon applies a wealth of knowledge to his role of leading Arnolds Park into the future. In this interview, Jon discusses generational loyalty, leading with positivity, and familiar but better.
Generational Loyalty"The attractions industry is a people business."
There aren’t many 100+ year-old amusement parks left in existence in the United States. Arnolds Park is one of them, which means they have been entertaining visitors for many, many generations. By large accounts, the people who come to the park do so because their parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents started the tradition.
Jon emphasizes that it’s the people, and all of their experiences, that draw his attention regarding the past, present, and future of the business. In order to understand what the business needs to survive and to inspire many more generations of families flocking to Arnolds Park, you have to understand people, what makes them tick, and how they think.
Leading with positivity"If your employees are valued, seen, and heard, they'll pass that along to the guest."
Jon has taken a collaborative approach to leading the teams at Arnolds Park. He recognizes that he doesn’t have all of the answers, and he must surround himself with leaders who can make up for his shortcomings. For example, Jon states he is a big-picture, futuristic thinker, so he must surround himself with managers who can thrive in the day-to-day.
Jon shared that he and the team came up with a “Team Affirmation” which is a statement of intent regarding how they want to do business. It's recited by everyone at each team meeting, which keeps the ideas top-of-mind. As they go through their day, individual leaders can assess their own behavior to determine if they are upholding the affirmation or not.
Familiar but different"Nostalgia is a powerful thing."
Along with generational loyalty, you also get people who recognize when things change but may not always be happy about it. The phrase, “This isn’t what it was like when I was a kid” is actually something Jon loves to hear - because if he’s doing his job, then it SHOULDN’T be like it was 20 or 30 years ago.
At the same time, Jon is not looking to reinvent the experience such that people don’t associate it with the memories of their past. That’s where the mantra “familiar but better” comes from as it reflects the idea that we will preserve the feeling that your memories invoke, but will constantly work to make the actual experience even better.
To learn more about Arnolds Park, visit them on their website and also Facebook and Instagram. To find out about the music happening at Arnolds Park, check out roofgardenballroom.com. Jon can also be found on LinkedIn.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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Do you check your email when you’re out of office? That was the question discussed in this week’s “minisode,” where Matt reflected on his trip to Iceland and pointed out times when he responded to messages, even though his out-of-office reply suggested that he wouldn’t. This led to a conversation about how we, along with attractions industry leaders, strive to communicate while they are off property, on vacation, or otherwise out of office.
We want to hear from you! What’s the best way to be out of office? Do you occasionally chime in, or do you shut down notifications altogether to be fully inaccessible? Let us know by chiming in on LinkedIn, X, Facebook, or Instagram.
What do you think of this episode format? Let us know if you want us to produce more minisodes!
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Lessons from Iceland
When you think about vacation spots, Iceland may not come up on everyone’s to-do list, but it did for Matt and a group of friends from his neighborhood. They wanted to experience the Northern Lights, Icelandic food and culture, and take in the beauty the country has to offer. In this episode, Matt and Josh discuss some of the experiences Matt and his friends had and how they relate to business and life.
The first thing Matt and Josh discussed was a hot dog. Yes, a hot dog. As Matt and his friends researched things to do in Iceland, they kept hearing about this special hot dog that you could only get in Iceland, so they had to seek it out.
It was a good hotdog, but the bigger lesson has to do with marketing and hype. We’ve all had hot dogs before, but the hype and attention this hot dog got made them think it was pretty special! If you believe in your product and tell a good story, people will want to seek you out.
The next lesson also had to do with food, but this time it was the premium experience created by the staff at the Fish Company that elevated the dining experience. They took the time to explain each dish as they served them, which not only helped understand what they were eating, but also gave them something to talk about as they discussed our meal later. It was this detail that took an excellent meal and made it truly memorable.
If you are going to walk on a glacier (a solid sheet of ice), you need special add-ons to your footwear. In a few places, crampons, or spikes were given out to put on your shoes to help navigate the glacier. The problem is that when most people walk on ice, they naturally walk with a little more care and caution than they would on normal ground. It was that the tour guide advised the group to walk normally, otherwise the crampons wouldn’t grip the ice and it could be treacherous.
There are many business and life lessons to be taken from trusting your crampons. The ability to trust your judgment or to trust a process takes the same mindset as trusting your crampons. Sometimes you have to let go and believe that you, your judgment or the process are going to lead to positive outcomes.
While on the glacier, the group also got to experience naturally occurring ice caves that constantly change with the weather. No two caves are the same, nor will they be the same a few days later. The experience of hiking in these caves was truly immersive, and leads to the question… can manufactured attractions compete with naturally occurring immersive locations. There is no “it makes you FEEL like you are there” vs you ARE there. But maybe “competition” isn’t the goal. Maybe it’s to provide an experience for people that will never go to Iceland, or to explore worlds that are literally only in our minds.
The last lesson has to do with service recovery. In two instances, when faced with a guest service situation that needed to be solved, the people responding to the situation said, “It’s not fair that this happened”. That response was the precursor to taking a human-centered approach to fixing the problem and doing what was right for the situation and the guests.
If you have been to Iceland, or if you have comments about the lessons we took away from the experience, please let us know. You can email us at [email protected], or find us any of the socials.
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This episode started with a question about what we as an industry might be lacking compared to other industries. It just so happens that Josh and Matt were talking about premium experiences just before recording, so that happened to be on our minds. In this episode, we talk about possible enhancements attractions can make to premiumize both the guest and employee experience.
At its core, a premium experience is based on three things: exclusivity, efficiency and personalization. With that in mind, we brainstormed a few ways to include those in our offerings to guests and employees.
For example, what if guests who opted for a premium experience not only had a special parking pass, but a separate lane to bypass all other traffic? Or better (or even more premium) yet, what if a van or limo arrived to pick the guests up and bring them to the park? Would THAT feel like a premium start to the day?
We also talked about this for employees, and discussed that what employees really crave is to be heard, valued and know that they have a future. From our experience, there are a lot of employees that would consider these foundations of the employee experience to be premium - IF done on a consistent basis.
The real challenge for many attractions is looking at the business differently. Taking a strategic look at every phase of the guest or employee journey to determine if there is more that could be done - and the answer is YES! There is no plateau to hospitality or service that we extend to the people we care about.
If you have initiatives that add premium touches to the guest or employee experience, we’d love to hear about them and possibly feature them on a future follow-up episode of the podcast. You can email us at [email protected], or find us any of the socials.
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Deborah Eicher is the International Sales and Marketing Director for RES Rides, a Swiss-based rides manufacturer known for creating unique experiences. Deborah began her career in the fashion industry after getting a business degree from the University of Iowa and later moved into banking and finance. When Deborah moved to Orlando to be closer to family, she was hired as Operations Manager for Flight Avionics (now Pulseworks), where she operated flight simulators on aircraft carriers and museums. During that time, Deborah was quickly promoted to Vice President and then President and COO, and grew the operation from one location to twenty. Ten years later, she was offered the opportunity to join the photo retail provider Picsolve (now owned by Pomvom) as President and COO, where she achieved stellar results, specifically for photo sales at Merlin’s midway locations. In 2014, Deborah moved to the UK and focused on RFP development for manufacturers and suppliers, where she connected with RES Rides which led to her role today. In this interview, Deborah discussed building unique rides, mentoring young talent, and future-proofing.
Building unique rides"Globally, everybody is looking for a new experience."
RES Rides was formed in 2015 by Willy Walser and Roman Rothe. The founders had extensive experience installing rides around the world and determined that an opportunity existed to introduce new ride types to the marketplace. This led to the development of rides like Rollerball which takes up a small footprint with a vertical lift hill, and Canyon Slide Rapids with the highest drop on a raft ride in the Western Hemisphere.
Most recently, RES Rides won a Brass Ring Award in 2023 for Crazy Professor, a vertical dark ride, at Conny-Land in Switzerland. The attraction features a multimedia experience that includes immersive theming and a pre-show that explains the backstory. Upon boarding the tower in a 10-seat gondola, the story unfolds through sensory elements including back jabbers, fog, and tilting seats, and by the time they get to the top of the tower, the experiment goes wrong and riders drop into a 20-meter freefall.
Mentoring young talent"If you ask someone to be a mentor, it's very complimentary for that person."
Deborah stresses the importance of finding mentors to help guide you throughout your career. For more than 10 years, Deborah sat on the board of the IAAPA Foundation, where they launched a scholarship program to help young professionals gain an education that will grow their careers in the industry.
Additionally, this interview is personal to Josh, because in 2011, Deborah hired Josh as Site Manager for Picsolve’s operation at LEGOLAND Florida. Deborah shares stories that she recalls from Josh’s time as a young leader, and Josh shares lessons he recalls from his time working with her.
Future-proofing"Hire people that are better than yourself."
When Deborah worked in fashion retail, she was required to set up an operation and then expected to leave it in a short period of time to move on to the next. This required her to replicate herself in order to future-proof the operation. This way, when she left, whether it was within the company or moving on to something else, she left it better than when she started.
Future-proofing involves delegation, understanding the metrics, and creating systems that will allow the operation to thrive. It requires setting best practices and continually fine-tuning them for success, and relying on the process, rather than an individual in particular, so that leaders can duplicate the success.
To learn more about RES Rides, visit their website or their YouTube channel. More incredible and unique concepts are coming in the pipeline, so be sure to stay tuned!
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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Dr. Patty Mason is a tax expert & financial consultant who not only supports businesses through sound finance advice and guidance, but also consults with executives about business vision, leadership, and employee engagement. A CPA by trade, Patty is someone who enjoys figuring out complex problems and helping business owners make the best decisions possible. In this fascinating interview, Patty talks about a holistic approach to finance, an abundance mindset, and transformational leadership.
A holistic approach to finance"If you don't have financial literacy, you'll make decisions based on what may or may not be best for you."
It’s not just the bottom line, it's not just the top line. It’s a 360-degree approach to the financial side of business and life that drives financial literacy and well-being so individuals can live a purposeful life.
Patty emphasizes the importance of education because of the various laws and approaches to finance so that both employees and business owners feel empowered to make the best decisions possible. She starts with a framework of ⅓ for today, ⅓ for tomorrow, and ⅓ for retirement. Her clients who embrace this formula thrive in both the short and long term.
An abundance mindset"An abundance mindset is not afraid of the downturn."
When asked about her advice for companies who are noticing a downward trend in their business, Patty doesn’t advocate for cutting corners or blind investments. Instead, her advice is to diversify and focus on production. In other words, embrace an abundance mindset.
An abundance mindset will drive people to find other lines of business, new ways to make money, and serve the needs of their clients or guests. Of course, it also helps if you follow Patty’s other advice about planning for any downturn with savings that can help you weather the storm.
Transformational leadership"Make them fall in love with the vision."
When advising clients, Patty likes to start with the leadership style because leadership is critical to creating an environment where opportunities are created and team members thrive.
Transformational leaders empower, motivate, and inspire employees to produce. Patty is a strong believer that this style of leadership is the most compassionate way to get your team to work and is what all leaders should aspire to to be truly successful.
To learn more about Patty, visit her website here. She can also be found on Instagram and LinkedIn. Her phone number is 321-335-4400.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen KaraliunasTo connect with AttractionPros:
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Recently, Universal Orlando shared additional details about Epic Universe, scheduled to open in 2025. The news of the upcoming park’s opening sparked a conversation about sustaining guest and employee experience initiatives on a continual basis. Grand openings are often accompanied by fanfare and confetti, but attractions are built for the long term, rather than the initial splash they make. In this episode, Matt and Josh talk about getting past the honeymoon phase, using feedback to drive growth, and moving the goalpost.
Getting past the honeymoon phase"Every day should be a grand opening."
There is substantial effort that it takes to open a large attraction such as a theme park. From construction to marketing and hiring, the majority of work activity is pointed toward the grand opening. Once the grand opening occurs, the initial novelty eventually wears off, and now the team needs to shift toward long-term operations.
However, when guests visit for the first time - even years after opening, the attraction needs to preserve the grand opening feel. For employees, this includes the first-day feeling that they have on their first day of employment, whether it aligned with the grand opening or not. Sustaining the enthusiasm is critical, particularly as employees become accustomed to their work environment, which for them now feels normal, ordinary, and occasionally even redundant.
How can you treat every day like the grand opening for both guests and employees?
Using feedback to make improvements"Ask what can improve the experience, not *if* anything could improve it."
You should always stay up-to-date on how you are delivering the experience compared to expectations, for both guests and employee experience. Using multiple streams of feedback, you can determine what friction points there are in the experience, coming from the guests or employees themselves. Then, using an operational lens and recognizing that the solution is not always the opposite of the problem, you can implement solutions very quickly that address the perception of the issue, and continue to measure the data to track improvements.
This also requires leaders to look at their environments with a critical eye and not accept mediocrity. Saying “it’s fine” to minor issues is an indicator that a leader will overlook circumstances that will grow into larger problems in the future. Taking care of them immediately ensures a high standard of quality.
Moving the goalpost"Use 'wow' moments to make sure the experience has no plateau."
The guest and employee experience have no limit. The more you drive these forward, the more growth opportunities you have for guest loyalty, including repeat visitation and positive word of mouth, as well as employee loyalty, which includes retention and referrals. Even if you are ranked #1 on TripAdvisor, you can create a larger buffer between yourself and the attraction ranked #2.
The concept of the peak-end rule indicates how we remember experiences. We are most likely to remember the beginning, end, and the peaks that occur throughout the experience. If we strategically orchestrate the peaks throughout their day, we can better ensure satisfaction, and we can continue to iterate new ideas for “wow” moments that can push the experience further.
Even if your attraction isn’t brand new, tomorrow is a brand new day. When you focus on the guest experience and the employee experience, the revenue follows.
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Amanda Verhoff is the President of the Association of Luxury Suite Directors, an organization dedicated to the premium and luxury seating industry that serves sports arenas, theaters and large-scale event spaces. Amanda studied sports management in college and upon hearing a guest speaker, who happened to be the founder of ALSD, raised her hand for an internship and she has been working in the premium seating industry ever since then. Throughout this fascinating conversation, Amanda gives us insight into the premium sports experience, understanding the buyer, and singing the same song.
The premium sports experience“Premium is more than the product, it’s the experience.”
When people think of premium seating, they likely think of the hardware… the loge, skybox, or suite that allows an audience member to view a game or performance from a specific vantage point. Amanda assures us that it doesn’t stop there and that there is a whole host of touchpoints that make up the “experience.”
Food and beverage, entertainment options and transportation services are just some of the ways that premium seating directors infuse luxury into the experience. If at a sports arena, the game for many is the main attraction, but for those in premium seating, it can serve as a backdrop to an elevated event.
Understanding the buyer"It's a tall task to understand the differences between different types of buyers."
Words like premium and luxury are highly subjective. Buyers are judging the level of premium or luxury against their understanding or experience of those situations. From a selling standpoint, it takes skill to understand the buyer's desire for luxury and where it falls on their scale - and it’s not always money-driven.
Part of the tall task of understanding the buyer is the vast difference in opinions and attitudes when it comes to just what luxury looks like. For some, it could be that every detail of the experience is planned and executed by someone else. For others, luxury could mean a decadent dessert presented in an elegant way by the culinary team. It’s the wide-ranging attitudes that keep luxury suite operators on their toes.
Singing the same song"Ticketing, parking, and food & beverage might be different entities, but they need to be singing off the same song sheet."
A premium experience doesn’t just happen because people are in a loge or skybox, it’s as much about the arrival and departure, navigating the venue, getting through ticketing or security, or the food and beverage offerings. This takes a lot of people working in a coordinated effort to pull it all off.
Amanda reminds us that in most cases, the people working in these various positions are actually working for different companies who have different values or processes. The key, she says, is to find the cooperative elements of service that everyone can adhere to in order to create a seamless experience.
To learn more about ALSD, visit their website. To connect with Amanda, you can find her on LinkedIn or email her at [email protected].
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Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen KaraliunasTo connect with AttractionPros:
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Jenny Williams leads attend media, an advertising agency working primarily with cultural and non-profit attractions. As a Media Strategist, Jenny works with zoos, gardens, museums, and aquariums to align their efforts across media strategy and investing in advertising. Jenny began working in media in November of 2007, which is the same time that Facebook launched its advertising platform. Throughout her career, she gravitated toward working with attractions and developed an even deeper niche within non-profit and cultural attractions to help align their advertising around the mission. In this interview, Jenny shares practical advice about putting together an effective media mix, non-profit marketing, and tracking the right metrics.
An effective media mix“You can’t post the same ad across all channels and expect it to serve the same purpose.”
There are so many channels that need to be considered when placing advertisements based on the audience attractions are looking to target and the message they are seeking to convey. While digital marketing, including social media and online advertising, has accelerated in growth, marketers should continue to leverage traditional channels such as television, radio, and billboards.
Through extensive testing and looking at past performance, marketers should evaluate the success of various campaigns, using the data to drive future campaigns into what works best. In particular, influencer marketing has evolved from finding an influencer with a sizeable following to post content about the brand to seeking larger pools of smaller creators and using their content in the attraction’s ads.
Non-profit marketing"People are seeking more organic content. They may not trust when it's perfect and polished."
Jenny describes the difference between nonprofit and for-profit attractions as mission-driven or ticket-driven. While both types of attractions need to focus their advertising on driving attendance and ticket sales, non-profit attractions should focus their message around their mission.
Non-profit attractions typically have a wide channel mix and often can spread themselves too thin. Jenny suggests that non-profit attractions should not spend less than 5% of their budget on any channel. This puts constraints on creative teams for developing assets, limits the ability to do proper testing and find insights, and it dilutes the messaging. Additionally, non-profit attractions should spend at least 10% of their budget on paid social.
Tracking the right metrics“Visitation is the end goal; not a click to the website.”
When you’re building your media strategy and looking at your objectives, it begins with understanding what you’re looking for. It may not be about how many unique households you are reaching, driving traffic to a web page, or even driving online ticket sales.
Depending on ticketing software and advertising channels, attractions may be able to track the performance of their campaigns directly through to ticket sales. However, for channels such as television, radio, and billboard, attractions should align these campaigns to see if website visitation increases or if attendance grows which can be attributed to the campaigns.
To learn more about attend.media, visit their website. Jenny is also co-host of the Marketing Attraction Podcast, which can be found here and on all major podcast platforms.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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Dominic Wray is Parks Director for Vectis Ventures and he oversees all aspects of the operation for Blackgang Chine on the Isle Wight. Blackgang is the oldest theme park in the UK, opening in 1843. Dominic began his career in the property market as an estate agent, then transitioned to banking with a position at Lloyds Bank where he split his time between personal banking and commercial banking clients. It was one of those commercial clients, Paula (who happened to be the HR Director at Blackgang Chine) who told Dominic about this wonderful, fun and fanciful place she worked at and that really appealed to Dom. When the Park Manager role was posted, Dom applied for and got it, and thus began his career of selling fun instead of financial products. In this episode, Dom talks about micro businesses, breaking down silos and leaving the island.
Micro businesses
"You've got lots of micro businesses within it. It's not just one business."
Dom recalls that one of the biggest learning curves he encountered when entering into the attractions business was how the park was actually a collection of micro businesses under the umbrella of the larger business.
Food and beverage, Marketing, Guest Experience, Safety and Retail can all be stand-alone businesses in their own right, but in the theme park industry, they must all work together to achieve the overall goals. And as park manager and now Parks Director, it’s critical he has a working understanding of all of those functions, as well as seasoned leaders who can help advise and direct as needed.
Breaking down silos
"It's healthy to challenge each other in a respectful manner."
In the early days at the park, Dom admits being a little naïve about just how separate the various departments were, and how that impacted productivity, morale, and the guest experience. Dom now attempts to structure his day so that he can give the appropriate attention to each area of the operation, knowing that emergencies can pop up at any time that will pull him away from his agenda.
Having a healthy balance of different viewpoints along with a sense of collaboration along the team helps create culture that doesn’t allow emotional walls or silos become a detractor for productivity. This leads to the team being able to effectively pull together when various events require involvement from many different departments across the property.
Leaving the island
"Both internal networking and external networking can be fantastic for development."
The Isle of Wight is a small island just south of mainland England. To access the island, you must take a boat, which does pose some challenges for residents and tourists alike. That also means that leaving the island can pose the same challenge or inconvenience, but Dom says it’s critical.
When Dom first entered the industry, he attended IAAPA Expo in Orlando and was able to gather some very practical knowledge and experience he could apply to his new role. Likewise, he also encourages his team to attend trainings, conferences, or to visit other attractions to make sure they are continuing to expand their knowledge and experience new ways of doing business.
To learn more about Blackgang Chine, visit the park’s website. To connect with Dominic directly, he can be reached at [email protected] or on LinkedIn.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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Steve Thomas is the General Manager at Belmont Park in San Diego, CA. Steve’s background includes working in oil fields in West Texas and Eastern New Mexico until he decided to move back to his hometown of San Diego in 2017. At that time, Belmont Park had recently been acquired by a real estate developer who had a new vision for the park, which was falling into disrepair. After identifying the challenges needed to make necessary improvements, he took on the role of Maintenance Manager and immediately implemented enhancements. Not long after, he approached the park’s ownership with the interest of becoming General Manager. Since becoming GM in 2018, Steve’s main focus has been on unification, which included acquiring all of the concessions operators on the property and bringing them all under one roof. In this interview, Steve talks about lessons from the oil field, guest centricity, and no paper signs.
Lessons from the oil field"Don't be bitter about spending a little more time in a role. Have patience."
Steve became a Floorhand for a drilling company after finding them at a recruiting event and learned the job from the lowest position in the ranks. After being passed up for a promotion to Driller a year later, Steve was initially disappointed, but he took the next seven to eight months to fully prepare himself for the role. When he got it, his proficiency was even higher than those who had been drilling for years. Steve stresses that patience pays off when it comes to growing in your career.
As a Driller, Steve says he gained valuable leadership lessons that translated into his role today at Belmont Park. When he was promoted to Driller, he found that he was doing the majority of the work because he could get it done better and quicker than anyone else, until he realized that this was the wrong approach. Instead, when he began learning more about what his team member’s best skill sets were, coaching, and operating as a team, their productivity went up substantially.
Guest centricity"Everything that we do is with the guest in mind."
Because of the number of businesses that operated at Belmont Park, Steve said that walking into the park felt more like walking into a strip mall than an amusement park. When your ticket allows you certain attractions but not others, employees are wearing different uniforms, and information is difficult to find, it creates a confusing experience that Steve described as fragmented and broken. By working to acquire all of the concessionaires, not only was it a good business decision, it made for a much smoother guest experience.
When describing his guest experience philosophy, Steve says that his focus is to ask, “What is that extra thing?” at every touchpoint in the park. From purchasing tickets to dining in the restaurants, Steve describes the concept of guest centricity of exceeding expectations and that everything that the park does is with the guest in mind.
No paper signs"There's a lack of care for the guest when there's a crooked paper sign taped to a window."
When comparing Belmont Park to Disneyland, Steve stresses that they can’t compete on the size of the park or the number of rides, but they can compete on guest experience. And part of the guest experience strategy is that there are no paper signs in the parks due to the lack of care that it shows to the guest.
The standard of no paper signs is literal, but also represents the overarching standard. To be considered world-class, you can’t have paper signs taped to a window. This same standard extends into never walking past a piece of trash without picking it up, which helps to align Belmont Park’s definition of world-class.
Having opened in 1925, Belmont Park will be celebrating its 100th anniversary in 2025. While the plans are still coming together at the time of this interview, Steve is excited to be a part of the centennial celebration and is excited to rally the team and acknowledge this historic milestone.
To learn more about Belmont Park, visit the park’s website and follow the park on Instagram. To connect with Steve directly, he can be reached at [email protected].
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
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Jim MacPhee is a retired Disney legend and renowned author of the book Engage, Inspire, Lead. Starting in the watercraft department on the Seven Seas Lagoon, Jim started with an hourly position and grew with the company, and through mentorship and personal growth, became one of the greatest leaders in Disney history. Jim spent 43 years with the Walt Disney Company, serving the company on both coasts as a Vice President of several parks. Later in his career, Jim led the Next Generation Experience movement, leading to the birth of MyMagic+ and other technology that reshaped the attractions industry. In this interview, Jim talks about navigating life, pushing a wet noodle, and emotional and relational intelligence.
Navigating Life"Define your destination and go. And be nimble and agile along the way."
Jim took many lessons from his first position with Disney and used them throughout his entire career. Reflecting on his experiences in the watercraft department, Jim emphasizes the parallels between navigating watercraft and effective leadership, such as finding the fastest path of travel and working together to create forward momentum.
The most profound lesson Jim learned from his time in watercraft was the skill of navigating life itself. With its various ties to leadership and great lessons in responsibility, Jim’s first position provided a strong foundation for the rest of his career. Watercraft provided a sense of community and allowed Jim to bond with guests and develop a real understanding of the scope and size of the new Disney property.
Pushing A Wet Noodle"If you don't have great relationships, you've got a tough battle ahead."
Jim compares “horizontal work” to pushing a wet noodle, stating that you can’t get anywhere unless everybody is on the same page. The team dynamic and leadership system is critical to the success of a project, and it’s one of the biggest takeaways Jim found in his time with the Next Generation Experience team.
One of the key elements of a successful project is top box sponsorship and great relationships. Jim compares poor leadership to the Liberty Bell, where a little crack in the top can lead to a massive fissure and disconnect in the rest of the team. Jim knows that with strong relationships and clear leadership, those fissures are avoidable.
Emotional and Relational Intelligence"We had to lead with clarity, unity, and agility."
Jim shares that great leaders are built on their emotional and relational intelligence. Being open and vulnerable to feedback contributes not only to the improvement of one’s self, but also to the improvement of the team. Jim also shares that leadership is everywhere, and that leadership can’t exist without the relationships that we build.
Jim shares that much of his success came from the fact that he would get to know people on a granular level, and not just when he needed them to put out fires. By investing in your team and providing an engaging and feedback-based environment, leaders won’t have to worry when they ring the fire bell. Jim boldly shares that good leaders engage and inspire, whereas bad leaders read off the pages and direct, and shares that the four cornerstones to great leadership are relationships, influence, knowledge, and credibility.
You can find Jim’s book Engage, Inspire, Lead on Amazon or at bookstores nationwide. To reach Jim directly, connect with him on LinkedIn.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen KaraliunasSummary written by Mason NicholsAudio and video editing by Abby GigananTo connect with AttractionPros:
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Keep connecting with IAAPA in 2024! Join your colleagues and peers at the IAAPA FEC Summit from January 21st to the 23rd in San Antonio, Texas. Or, plan to celebrate the industry’s most significant achievements at the new IAAPA Honors event held in conjunction with the IAAPA North America Summit, March 3rd to the 5th in Las Vegas.
We can’t wait to see you there! Visit IAAPA.org for more information.
As we head into 2024, AttractionPros is proud to present the seventh annual “resolutionary” episode, which sets the stage for the year to come. To go forth, we reflect on 2023 as Matt and Josh discuss not only their personal goals, but goals for the industry as well. As you set your goals for the upcoming year, we hope you discover valuable advice and guidance as we discuss our resolutions, and hope they can provide a great framework to help you achieve your goals for 2024. In this episode, Matt and Josh talk about the power of accountability as they share their goals and resolutions for 2024.
AccountabilityOne of the most powerful forces in life is accountability. Josh shares that announcing his upcoming book on the podcast served as a motivating factor, propelling him to publish The Hospitality Mentality in 2023 and ensure its successful completion. Additionally, because AttractionPros has a strong and growing audience that keeps us accountable, it has helped ensure that every Tuesday since September 2017, there’s been a new podcast for our listeners to hear.
New Year's resolutions often wane or fall short, but establishing not only internal but also external accountability can significantly enhance the pursuit of those goals. This is also incredibly important in our industry, as making sure we hold ourselves accountable ensures that we can deliver great experiences to guests every day of the year.
Josh’s ResolutionsIn 2024, Josh wants to focus more on building partnerships and sustaining guest experience initiatives. Josh shares that throughout his career, he’s often flown out for a temporary time to deliver a workshop, and typically finds himself working in short timeframes. Josh wants to commit more time to growing guest experience initiatives and building more rewarding and long-lasting relationships within the industry.
Josh never expected to become a public speaker, but now finds himself consistently speaking at expos and workshops. Knowing this, Josh wants to commit to becoming a great public speaker in 2024 by taking advantage of the resources around him, such as enrolling in courses at The Second City in Chicago. By finding a unique voice and providing opportunities to laugh, Josh will make sure he’s an even better speaker the next time you hear him.
Josh’s final resolution is that he’d like to hold more in-person events in 2024. After hosting two successful events in 2023 with the AttractionPros meetup and his book launch at IAAPA Expo, Josh has fallen in love with the relaxed environment and opportunities to build relationships and meet people in a setting that doesn't revolve around exchanging business cards. We hope to see you at the AttractionPros meetup in 2024!
Matt’s ResolutionsMatt’s first resolution for 2024 is that he’d like to keep building POC (Performance Optimist Consulting) YOUniversity by getting more help. So far, Matt has ventured on this journey primarily alone, and looks forward to bringing new perspectives not only to execute the next steps, but also create them.
Matt’s second resolution for 2024 is more personal, as he wants to keep committing to his health after receiving open heart surgery. Although several factors are out of his control, Matt realizes there’s still plenty he can do to ensure his well-being. Since surgery, Matt’s been exercising, avoiding fried foods, and working to build great habits that lead to positive lifestyle changes.
Matt’s final resolution for 2024 is that he’d like to make sure he can tell his story when it will make a positive impact on somebody. Matt wants to make sure that this story is a chapter in his life, and not the whole book. By using the story in the right moments, Matt can continue to make an incredible impact on people’s lives.
Resolutions for the IndustryOur first 2024 resolution for the industry is to take care of your people. There are far too many people who feel guilty about taking time off, and too many people who feel like they can’t take care of themselves. By taking the proper steps, Leadership can hold themselves accountable to improving their employee well-being.
Our next resolution is to make exceeding expectations part of the standard operating procedure. When we, as leadership, focus our energy in the right place, we can make sure guests have incredible experiences by training our frontline staff to consistently exceed the expectations our guests have developed.
Another resolution, as shared by Jenn Whitmer in Episode 322, is to not avoid conflict. So many negative aspects of culture, guest experience, and employee experience occur when we avoid conflict. While conversations can be difficult, handling that conflict and acknowledging the issues can help remedy many negative experiences in the workplace.
Our last resolution for the industry is to eliminate the phrase “Let me get my manager.” So many people don’t include complaint resolution/recovery in their standard operation procedure. By allowing frontline staff to resolve complaints and provide a service recovery, the guest and employee can both walk away as winners.
If you have been inspired by our guests to achieve your goals, we would love to hear about it. Please connect with us via Facebook, Linkedin, X, Instagram, or send us an email.
We wish you a happy, healthy, and successful year ahead, and we look forward to bringing you many more amazing guests in 2024!
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen KaraliunasSummary written by Mason NicholsTo connect with AttractionPros:
[email protected] on FacebookAttractionPros on LinkedInAttractionPros on InstagramAttractionPros on Twitter (X) -
Keep connecting with IAAPA in 2024! Join your colleagues and peers at the IAAPA FEC Summit from January 21st to the 23rd in San Antonio, Texas. Or, plan to celebrate the industry’s most significant achievements at the new IAAPA Honors event held in conjunction with the IAAPA North America Summit, March 3rd to the 5th in Las Vegas.
We can’t wait to see you there! Visit IAAPA.org for more information.
Jamie Flaherty is the VP of Business Development and Marketing for Netserv Applications and oversees Tatvam Analytics. As a self-proclaimed “Attractions Ninja,” Jamie has been passionate about guest experience technology since early on in his career when he worked with a startup in college. After selling the startup, he joined the team with Gateway Ticketing Systems, where he was able to work with attractions all over the world for more than a decade. More recently, he joined Netserv to oversee Tatvam Analytics, which helps attractions compile guest feedback to make ongoing improvements to the experience and the organization. In this interview, Jamie talks about using technology to impact the guest experience, making feedback-based improvements, and riding the ride.
Using technology to impact the guest experience
"There is so much more technology that impacts the experience than most people realize."
When people share stories of their experience visiting attractions, they usually don’t talk about the technology like the ticketing platform or other tools that they use to help manage the venue or deliver the experience. In most cases, if people talk about technology, it’s usually because something wasn’t working.
Technology, specifically the tools that impact the guest experience, should be woven in so seamlessly that the guest doesn’t know how they work or that they even exist. Attractions leaders should view technology as a means of removing friction from the guest experience as the core purpose.
Making feedback-based improvements
"The things you're doing wrong are what you need to fix, and the things you're doing right are what you can charge more for."
Jamie boldly states, “Don’t trust your guest experience team” when it comes to understanding what the largest areas of concern are. Instead, focus on collecting feedback from well-rounded sources to see the holistic view of the guest experience and understand what the largest complaints and friction points are. This includes internal feedback, as well as social media, online reviews, and anywhere else that guests can share their perception of the experience.
When you identify what the largest issue is, you can allocate your resources and attention toward resolving the largest issue. It’s also important to note that the solution is not the opposite of the problem. Jamie shares a story where an attraction noted that their largest complaint had to do with crowds. Instead of reducing crowds by limiting attendance, they pulled back to identify when and where the perception of crowds were the heaviest, and focused efforts on shifting people throughout the building as well as spreading attendance toward slower time periods. In turn, their attendance went up, along with guest satisfaction, creating a win-win outcome.
Riding the ride
"The more you experience as a guest, the more you can help other people."
In addition to working in the industry, Jamie is an avid consumer of the product as well, as he regularly visits parks and attractions with his family. This helps to influence his perception of the experience as he is regularly on the lookout for ways that parks are incorporating technology. His children have also changed the way he views the operation by gaining their perception.
This mindset extends into how industry professionals experience attractions while attending networking events, expos, or visiting clients. Jamie shares the importance of “riding the ride” or experiencing the attraction as a guest, because it helps to enhance how we are able to help those we serve, whether it is guests visiting our attraction or the clients and partners we make in the industry.
To learn more about Tatvam, visit https://tatvaminsights.com. To reach Jamie directly, connect with him on LinkedIn.
This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our faaaaaantastic team:
Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen KaraliunasTo connect with AttractionPros:
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