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In this insightful and thought-provoking conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Kim Palermo—a Certified Control Unleashed Instructor (CCUI) and Animal Centred Education (ACE) Practitioner with over 20 years of professional experience in the dog training industry. A lifelong animal enthusiast who owns Blue Dog training and walking business near Boston, Kim brings a blend of academic rigor, from her degree in zoology, and compassionate curiosity to her work with dogs and other species.
Together, Ryan and Kim explore the power of observation and the critical importance of creating "safe spaces" for learners to process information. Kim shares her personal journey from a "crossover trainer" to a passionate advocate for positive reinforcement, emphasizing how her own experiences with chronic pain and ADHD have shaped her empathetic, trauma-informed approach to training. They discuss how professional mentors—including the late Gail Fisher, Julie Daniels, and Sarah Fisher—have left an indelible mark on her career and the industry at large.
A major focus of the discussion is the innovative concept Kim calls "opt-out stations." By integrating ACE Free Work and Control Unleashed principles, Kim explains how giving dogs the freedom to choose when to engage and when to take a break can drastically reduce frustration and increase clarity in training. She breaks down the science of assent versus consent and the role of "degrees of freedom" in allowing animals to participate in their own learning process without the pressure of perceived coercion. Whether she is working with high-level sports dogs or rescue dogs with complex histories, Kim demonstrates how these simple environmental adjustments can transform a struggling learner into an enthusiastic, confident partner.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ Kim's journey from zookeeping and dog walking to clinical behavior and dog sports
✅ Why hands-on experience and observation are the most valuable tools for new trainers
✅ The core principles of ACE Free Work and how it physically and emotionally supports dogs
✅ How to bridge the gap between "artistry" and scalable training methodologies
✅ The fascinating concept of "opt-out stations" and how they provide clarity and choice
✅ Understanding the difference between consent and assent in animal training
✅ How to manage arousal and frustration by allowing learners to process the environment
✅ The value of finding mentors who encourage creativity and brave exploration
Whether you are a seasoned professional, a beginner looking for guidance on how to start, or someone interested in the intersection of neuroscience and animal behavior, this episode offers a practical roadmap for creating training sessions built on kindness, agency, and connection.
Links
https://kimpalermo.com/
https://www.bluedogpetcare.com/
https://www.instagram.com/kimanddogs/
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In this deeply personal conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Danielle Beck — a UK-based clinical animal behaviorist, mentor, and founder of Control The Meerkat. With a rich background spanning over 20 years in zoology and companion animal behavior, Danielle brings a unique and vulnerable lens to the profession, specializing in complex cases involving trauma, aggression, emotional regulation, and assistance dog training.
Together, Ryan and Danielle explore the critical and often overlooked reality of isolation within the animal training industry. Danielle opens up about her personal journey living with dissociative identity disorder, explaining how the stigma surrounding her own mental health and disability mirrors the challenges many trainers face when they feel pressured to project an image of perfection. They discuss how the "Instagram-reality" of our profession often prevents trainers from seeking the support they need, leading to burnout, compassion fatigue, and imposter syndrome.
The conversation also highlights the intersection of neuroscience and practical animal training. Danielle shares how her "meerkat analogy"—a tool for understanding the moment an animal shifts into survival mode—has become a cornerstone of her approach to trauma-informed practice. She offers a compassionate roadmap for professionals to build stronger, more collaborative networks, manage time budgets in the face of disability or neurodivergence, and create "safe spaces" where trainers can bounce ideas off one another without the fear of judgment.
This episode is a heartfelt call to action for the industry to move away from competition and toward radical empathy. By leaning into vulnerability and acknowledging our shared human limitations, we can build a more inclusive, resilient, and supportive community for both the animals we train and the humans who care for them.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ The "behavior odyssey" that led Danielle from zookeeping to clinical animal behavior
✅ Understanding the "lizard brain" and the universality of learning theory across species
✅ The hidden epidemic of isolation among animal professionals and why peer support is essential
✅ Danielle's personal experience with dissociative identity disorder and the importance of professional transparency
✅ How to build a sustainable, values-driven career while managing chronic illness or disability
✅ Moving from a "people-pleasing" mindset to setting healthy professional boundaries
✅ Why the future of our industry depends on true collaboration, compassion, and removing the shame associated with asking for help
Whether you're a seasoned professional, a trainer navigating your own health challenges, or simply seeking a more supportive peer network, this episode offers a refreshing and empowering roadmap for creating a career that is built on safety, kindness, and connection.
Links
Website
www.controlthemeerkat.com
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/geekydogtrainer
https://www.facebook.com/DanielleBeckCAB/
https://www.facebook.com/ControlTheMeerkat/
Insta
https://www.instagram.com/controlthemeerkat/
https://www.instagram.com/geekydogtrainer/
TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@controlthemeerkat
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@controlthemeerkat
https://www.youtube.com/@DanielleBeck-CAB
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Saknas det avsnitt?
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In this insightful conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Shane Gorbett — Curator of Animal Training and Behavior at the Philadelphia Zoo and current President of the Animal Behavior Management Alliance (ABMA). Shane brings a wealth of experience from the zoological world, where he specializes in animal care training and behavior management. Bringing a rare analytical lens to the profession, Shane challenges us to look past "common sense" and intuition, and instead embrace objective data as the foundation for high-level animal welfare and professional advocacy.
Together, Ryan and Shane explore how documentation and data collection are far more than just administrative requirements; they are essential tools for clarity and institutional change. Shane shares how moving from "we think it's working" to "we know it's working" allows trainers to communicate more effectively with stakeholders, secure necessary resources, and prove the efficacy of their training programs. He offers practical reflections on how simple, consistent record-keeping can reveal trends that the human brain might otherwise miss, leading to more successful outcomes for both the animals and the humans who care for them.
The conversation also highlights the role of the ABMA in fostering a global community where behavior management is shared across diverse species. Shane reflects on his journey hosting the ABMA podcast and the importance of professional collaboration in raising industry standards. For those who may feel intimidated by spreadsheets or "data phobia," Shane provides an empowering roadmap for starting small, finding the "why" behind the numbers, and using information to tell a more compelling and accurate story for the animals in our charge.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ The shift from "intuition-based" to "data-driven" animal training
✅ Shane's role at the Philadelphia Zoo and his work leading the ABMA
✅ How to use objective data as a tool for advocacy and securing resources
✅ Overcoming "data phobia" and the practicalities of simple record-keeping
✅ The importance of tracking medical behaviors and husbandry progress for better welfare
✅ How the ABMA supports professional growth through global collaboration and shared knowledge
✅ Why objective evidence is the key to proving the "ripples" we create in our work
✅ Using data to bridge the gap between animal care staff and organizational leadership
Whether you are working in a zoological setting, a domestic training environment, or simply looking for ways to elevate your professional standards, this episode offers a practical roadmap for using information to create a more ethical and impactful career.
Links
ABMA website: https://www.theabma.org/
Animal Behavior Conversations Podcast (Spotify): https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/theabmapodcast/
Email Shane: [email protected]
Philadelphia Zoo: https://www.philadelphiazoo.org/
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In this perspective-shifting conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Kapil Patwardhan — a volunteer providing medical aid and food for dogs in Pune, India, an educator focused on community coexistence, and the author of the moving book The Dog I Could Not Save. Kapil brings a unique lens to the animal training world by advocating for the role of a "dog listener", emphasizing the profound wisdom found in free-ranging dogs who navigate complex human environments every day.
Together, Ryan and Kapil explore the lives of "Indie" dogs and the delicate balance of coexisting with animals that aren't "owned" in the Western sense but are integral members of their local communities. Kapil shares his philosophy of non-interference and silent observation, explaining how allowing dogs to be our teachers can fundamentally change how we understand body language, social structures, and the concept of choice. He reflects on his personal journey from a technical background to providing hands-on medical aid in the streets of Pune, and how a singular, tragic loss shaped his mission to help others understand the "why" behind dog behavior to reduce human-animal conflict.
The conversation also highlights the challenges faced by free-ranging dogs in rapidly urbanizing environments and the importance of educating the public on how to read canine signals to foster safer, more harmonious neighborhoods. Kapil offers practical reflections on how we can all become better listeners for the animals in our lives by prioritizing their agency and understanding the natural social behaviors that exist when human intervention is minimized.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ The reality of free-ranging "Indie" dogs and their unique place in Indian society
✅ Becoming a "Dog Listener" and the transformative power of non-interference
✅ The story and inspiration behind the book The Dog I Could Not Save
✅ Reducing community conflict through education on canine body language
✅ Kapil's transition from a tech career to animal welfare and street-level medical aid
✅ How urbanization and modern infrastructure impact the social lives of street dogs
✅ Shifting our perspective to let dogs be the primary educators in our learning journey
✅ The importance of food and medical security for community-owned animals
Whether you are a professional trainer looking for a fresh perspective on canine social dynamics, a volunteer in the rescue world, or someone interested in the intersection of culture and animal welfare, this episode offers aneye-opening roadmap for coexisting with the animals around us with greater empathy and understanding.
Links
India Dog study tours link - dogstudytour.com
The Dog Who Goes To School Children's Book link for free download - https://ibh-hundeschulen.org/tipps/neu-der-hund-der-zur-schule-geht/
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In this episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Karen Deeds — a Certified Dog Behavior Consultant through the IAABC and co-owner of Canine Connection in Memphis. Bringing over three decades of experience across assistance dogs, the veterinary profession, and competitive sports, Karen shares a profound "origin story" from the early 1990s—a traumatic assault that her own dog intervened in—which shifted her entire focus from traditional obedience training to the complex emotional world of animal behaviour.
Together, Ryan and Karen explore the transformative world of Multiple Marker Systems (MMS) and why the delivery of reinforcement is just as critical as the reinforcer itself. Karen explains how moving beyond a single clicker to specific verbal cues like "toss," "scatter," and "tush" can provide dogs with ultimate clarity, reducing frustration and creating a more cooperative partnership. They discuss the concept of "eating as a behaviour" and how strategically placing, moving, or slowing down food delivery can directly influence a dog's physical physiology and emotional state in both high-level sports and severe behaviour cases.
The conversation also highlights the vital bridge between "in the trenches" experience and academic science. Karen reflects on a pivotal interaction at the University of North Texas with the ORCA group, highlighting the need for academia to meet practitioners in the middle to make technical lingo accessible and inclusive. Finally, Karen shares her vision for the future of the industry—a heartfelt call for "peace and harmony" and an end to the vitriol that can separate professionals, reminding us that empathy must extend to our human colleagues just as much as the animals we serve.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ Karen's "Behaviour Odyssey" and the 1990 encounter that changed her career trajectory
✅ The technical mechanics of Multiple Marker Systems (MMS) vs. traditional clicker training
✅ Why "how" reinforcement is delivered is as important as the reinforcement itself
✅ The concept of treating eating as a behaviour and putting it on cue
✅ Bridging the gap between academic lingo and "in the trenches" training experience
✅ How to use "The Three Cs" (Change, Continue, Create) to address non-sport behaviours
✅ Impulse control vs. stimulus control and their role in behaviour modification
✅ A vision for the future of the industry: Unity, education, and moving past the "us against them" mentality
Whether you're a professional behaviour consultant, a competitive sport enthusiast, or a pet owner navigating reactivity, this episode offers an empowering roadmap for using clarity and kindness to master your training skills.
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In this candid and soulful exploration of the trainer's journey, Ryan Cartlidge sits down with Steve Goodall — a director of Packed Dogs Limited , an ABTC registered animal training instructor , and a published author based in a small hamlet in Wales . Steve offers a refreshing look at the "why" behind our interactions with animals, drawing on his eclectic background in the DIY punk music scene and sound engineering to highlight the delicate balance between technical protocols and creative intuition . From his early days as a postman to leading a nationally recognized training organization, Steve's story is a testament to how welfare-first, science-based methods can transform both ends of the leash .
Together, Ryan and Steve dive into the concept of prosody and how our vocalizations and body language serve as a primary bridge for cross-species communication . Steve shares the moving story of his first rescue dog, Rocco, and the sudden tragedy that served as a "baptism of fire," propelling him into a career dedicated to fostering happy, healthy homes through emotional connection . They also discuss the importance of professional self-awareness, encouraging listeners to identify whether they are "systems-led operators" or "creative sparks" to build a more sustainable and fulfilling career .
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
Steve's "Behavior Odyssey": A windy path from touring in punk bands to discovering the "magic" of clicker training and targeting with a Pringle's lid .
The Art vs. Science Intersection: Why the most effective training happens when mechanics and protocols dance with instinctual creativity .
Vocal Prosody: Exploring how the pitch, rhythm, and tone of the human voice can instinctively calm or excite an animal .
Strengths-Based Training: The value of investigating your natural skills and investing time in playing to those strengths rather than fighting weaknesses .
The Power of Patterns: What Steve has learned from watching hundreds of homework submissions and the specific movements that signal a "flow state" .
Collaboration Over Competition: How the four directors at PACT leverage their diverse skills—from spreadsheets to storytelling—to move the industry forward .
Embracing Playfulness: Moving from "learning the scales" to being proficient enough to play with the rules for better results .Whether you are looking to refine your coaching skills or searching for inspiration after a personal setback, Steve's perspective provides a roadmap for staying curious, staying kind, and finding the rhythm in your training.
Links
PACT https://www.pact-dogs.com/
ABTC https://abtc.org.uk/
Steve's blog https://www.goodalldogtraining.com/blog
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In this thoughtful and practical conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Natalie Light — canine behaviourist, trainer, and director at PACT Dogs Ltd (Professional Association of Canine Trainers) in the UK. With a background that blends hands-on behaviour work, professional education, and a strong commitment to raising standards within the industry, Natalie brings a refreshingly grounded perspective to one of the most important (and often misunderstood) topics in dog training: what "good training" really looks like when we centre welfare, ethics, and long-term outcomes.
Together, Ryan and Natalie explore the role of professional standards in the dog training world, and why clarity matters — not just for trainers, but for the dogs and guardians we support. Natalie shares insights into her work within the UK's developing professional landscape, including the Animal Behaviour and Training Council (ABTC) framework, the purpose of assessed membership, and how professional bodies can create pathways that protect both animals and the public without falling into gatekeeping or division.
The conversation also dives into the emotional realities of being a trainer in today's climate — where misinformation spreads quickly, social media fuels polarisation, and many professionals feel pressure to "perform" expertise rather than practise thoughtfully. Natalie speaks candidly about the importance of humility, ongoing learning, and community support, and how building a sustainable career often requires stepping away from perfectionism and toward collaboration, reflection, and clear ethical anchors.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ Natalie's work through PACT Dogs Ltd and her commitment to professional development
✅ What the ABTC framework is — and how it supports role clarity and public protection
✅ Why professional standards matter for welfare, ethics, and credibility in dog training
✅ The difference between regulation, voluntary frameworks, and professional accountability
✅ How trainers can navigate polarisation, misinformation, and social media pressure
✅ Why sustainable careers are built through learning, community, and values — not perfectionWhether you're a trainer looking to strengthen your professional identity, a behaviour professional navigating the complexities of modern dog training culture, or someone simply curious about what ethical standards could look like in our industry, this episode is a powerful reminder that raising the bar doesn't have to mean shutting people out — it can mean building something better, together.
Links
PACT Dogs Ltd (Professional Association of Canine Trainers) — https://www.pact-dogs.com/
Animal Behaviour and Training Council (ABTC) — https://abtc.org.uk/
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In this perspective-shifting conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Jason Light — director at PACT Dogs Limited in the UK, sustainability consultant through Green Robin Consulting, and a chartered environmentalist with over 20 years of senior leadership experience, including serving as Head of Sustainability for an NHS Foundation Trust. Bringing a rare strategic lens to the animal training profession, Jason challenges us to think about "sustainability" as something far bigger than environmental impact alone — and instead, as the foundation for building ethical, resilient, welfare-first careers that actually last.
Together, Ryan and Jason explore what it means to create truly sustainable dog training businesses and professional communities, including financial resilience, mental wellbeing, and long-term professional longevity. Jason shares how his work through PACT (the Professional Association of Canine Trainers) and the Animal Behaviour and Training Council (ABTC) is helping raise professional standards in the UK through assessed membership, structured training pathways, and clear role-based benchmarks — while still encouraging collaboration over competition across the wider industry.
The conversation also highlights the hidden risks that can quietly derail even the most passionate professionals, including burnout, compassion fatigue, and imposter syndrome. Jason offers practical reflections on how values-driven business design, community support, and clear "off ramps" can help trainers avoid feeling cornered — and instead create careers that feel both sustainable and safe. Ryan also shares why this conversation matters deeply to Animal Training Academy's own values and future collaborations, and the episode closes with a heartfelt dedication to Sarah Fisher and the legacy of kindness she left within the industry.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ What "sustainability" really means for dog trainers — beyond just environmental concerns
✅ How to build a business that supports financial resilience, wellbeing, and professional longevity
✅ Jason's work through PACT Dogs and Green Robin Consulting
✅ How the ABTC is shaping professional standards, assessment frameworks, and voluntary regulation in the UK
✅ Why collaboration matters more than competition — and how professional communities can support trainers to thrive
✅ Burnout, compassion fatigue, and imposter syndrome as sustainability risks in our profession
✅ The importance of values, identity, and planning for the long term (including having "off ramps")Whether you're a trainer running a business, working inside a larger organisation, or simply looking for ways to stay in this profession without burning out, this episode offers a refreshing and empowering roadmap for creating a career that's ethical, resilient, and built to last.
Links
PACT (Professional Association of Canine Trainers) https://www.pact-dogs.com/
Green Robin Consulting https://thegreenrobin.com/
ABTC (Animal Behaviour and Training Council) https://abtc.org.uk/
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In this thoughtful and business-boosting conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by returning guest Veronica Boutelle — founder of Dogbiz, author of How to Run a Dog Business, and a long-time leader in helping positive reinforcement dog trainers build sustainable, values-aligned businesses. With a rare blend of experience as a professional dog trainer, business owner, and former classroom teacher, teacher educator, and curriculum developer, Veronica brings a grounded, practical lens to the "softer skills" that can make or break a trainer's confidence, visibility, and long-term success.
Together, Ryan and Veronica unpack two of the most common struggles trainers face behind the scenes: imposter syndrome and isolation. Veronica explores how these experiences often show up as fear — fear of not knowing enough, fear of being judged by peers, fear of rejection from potential clients, and fear of "getting it wrong" and causing harm. They also discuss how the lack of shared professional standards in the dog training industry can intensify doubt, and why community and belonging matter so deeply for staying resilient and moving forward.
Throughout the episode, Veronica reframes confidence not as the absence of fear, but as the willingness to take action anyway — building systems, developing skills, and learning through experience. From risk-taking as experimentation, to treating business decisions like training data, this conversation is packed with perspective shifts that will help you stop waiting for "ready" and start moving toward the business (and impact) you truly want.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ Why imposter syndrome and isolation are so common in the positive reinforcement dog training world
✅ How fear fuels inaction — and why confidence is often simply "doing anyway"
✅ The role of belonging, validation, and status in how we show up publicly as professionals
✅ Why risk is unavoidable in business (and how to reframe it as experimentation)
✅ How community support changes everything — for both wins and setbacksWhether you're a new trainer trying to find your footing or an experienced professional wrestling with visibility, pricing, or self-doubt, this episode is a powerful reminder that confidence isn't something you wait for — it's something you build through action, reflection, and connection.
Links
Veronica's Thrive program: http://dogbizsuccess.com/thrive/
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In this episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, host Ryan Cartlidge is joined by returning guest Michael Shikashio for a wide-ranging conversation about professionalism, community, and the future of the dog training industry. Michael Shikashio is the founder of AggressiveDog.com, a leading expert in working with aggression cases, a five-time past President of the IAABC, the 2020 APTT Member of the Year, and host of The Bitey End of the Dog podcast. Drawing on decades of experience supporting trainers across more than 20 countries, Michael brings a global, grounded perspective to the challenges and opportunities facing the profession today.
Together, Ryan and Michael explore the vision behind the Canis Conference - a bold new event designed to bring trainers, behavior consultants, veterinarians, shelter professionals, scientists, and dog sports enthusiasts together under one roof. Michael shares how Canis was born from a desire to dismantle silos, reduce divisiveness, and create a space where learning, collaboration, and respectful dialogue can flourish across differing backgrounds and methodologies.
The conversation moves well beyond conference planning, diving into the emotional and professional toll of online conflict, social media algorithms, and the rise of polarized "team" identities within the dog training world. Michael speaks candidly about criticism, controversy, and resilience, offering powerful insights for both emerging and established professionals navigating public discourse, online platforms, and ethical responsibility. Throughout the episode, the emphasis remains on compassion, professionalism, and the importance of face-to-face connection in restoring trust - both within the industry and with the public we serve.
In this episode, we discuss:
The vision and structure of the Canis Conference and its festival-style, multi-disciplinary approach
Why safety, inclusion, and professionalism matter more than ever in the dog training industry
The impact of social media algorithms on conflict, identity, and professional behavior
Navigating criticism, controversy, and online hostility with integrity and resilience
Moving beyond divisive labels to find shared values and common ground
The power of in-person connection to rebuild trust, empathy, and collaboration
Whether you are a new trainer finding your voice, a seasoned professional reflecting on your role in the wider community, or someone longing for a more respectful and united industry, this episode offers clarity, courage, and a hopeful vision for where we go next - together.
Links
Canis Conference: canisconference.com
Michael Shikashio: AggressiveDog.com
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In this insightful and future-focused episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by two pioneers in applied behavior analysis and professional animal education: Dr. Susan Friedman and Rick Hester, as they introduce and explore their newest collaborative project, Zoo School.
Dr. Susan Friedman brings decades of experience as a psychology professor, behavior analyst, and internationally respected educator whose work has profoundly shaped humane, evidence-based animal training across species. Rick Hester joins the conversation as a seasoned zoo professional, educator, and mentor whose career spans animal care, staff development, and leadership within zoological institutions. Together, Susan and Rick share how their complementary backgrounds converged to create Zoo School - a learning platform designed to elevate animal care through science, ethics, and effective teaching.
Throughout the conversation, Susan and Rick reflect on the gaps they've observed in traditional animal-care education, particularly the need for deeper fluency in learning theory, behavior analysis, and instructional design. They discuss how Zoo School was built to support zoo and aquarium professionals not just in what to do, but in how to think - developing critical skills in observation, decision-making, and compassionate problem solving.
Ryan, Susan, and Rick dive into the philosophy underpinning Zoo School, including the importance of clarity, kindness, and accountability in professional practice. They explore how well-designed education can improve animal welfare, empower caregivers, and foster healthier organizational cultures. Central to the discussion is the idea that behavior doesn't exist in isolation - it is shaped by environments, systems, and the contingencies we design for both animals and humans.
Listeners will also hear candid reflections on mentorship, lifelong learning, and the responsibility educators carry when shaping the next generation of professionals. Susan and Rick share what excites them most about Zoo School's future, how it differs from conventional training programs, and why now is the right time for this kind of learning space to exist.
This episode is a thoughtful invitation to rethink professional development in animal care - and a compelling reminder that when education is grounded in science, empathy, and intentional design, it has the power to create meaningful, lasting change for animals and the people who care for them.
Links
https://bwzs.org/
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In this reflective and values-driven episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, ATA team members Ryan Cartlidge, Shelly Wood, and Belinda Young come together for a thoughtful discussion on gratitude - one of Animal Training Academy's core values - and the meaningful role it plays in learning, community, and wellbeing.
Drawing from personal experience and professional practice, Ryan, Shelly, and Belinda explore how intentional gratitude shapes ATA's culture and supports safer, more compassionate spaces for human learners. From early-morning thought loops and professional challenges to gratitude journals, team rituals, and community moderation, the conversation reframes gratitude not as "toxic positivity," but as a genuine, practiced skill that can be learned, strengthened, and modeled.
Throughout the episode, the discussion explores:
Why gratitude was intentionally chosen as a core value of Animal Training Academy
Gratitude as a learnable skill that builds resilience, self-compassion, and emotional flexibility
Parallels between effective animal training and supporting human learners
How gratitude supports bravery, vulnerability, and risk-taking in learning environments
The ripple effects of modeling gratitude within ATA and beyond
Why psychologically safe communities are essential for growth, feedback, and lifelong learning
This episode is a heartfelt exploration of what it means to practice gratitude with authenticity. It highlights how values-led reinforcement can transform not only how we train animals, but how we support people, nurture community, and show up for one another - reminding us that when courage, curiosity, and kindness are intentionally reinforced, the ripples travel far beyond the moment.
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In the second part of our conversation with Ryan Talbot, Behavioral Enrichment and Training Manager at Wolf Park, we continue exploring how behavior science, engineering, and thoughtful creativity come together in Ryan's work with wolves and wolf dogs. Ryan shares how small, systematic changes can create meaningful shifts in cooperative care, and how approaching husbandry through a constructional, stepwise lens helps both animals and humans experience more clarity and choice.
Ryan and host Ryan Cartlidge dig into the practical realities of teaching complex behaviors to apex species. They discuss shaping, splitting, and transferring control, as well as how long-term plans can be built from simple, repeatable loops. Ryan also reflects on what he has learned from working with individual animals over many years, including how emotional safety guides the pace of training and how social dynamics influence husbandry outcomes.
Throughout the episode, Ryan highlights the importance of curiosity, experimentation, and community. From building prototype tools to inviting colleagues into problem-solving conversations, he shares how collaborative thinking makes training more effective and more humane. His insights offer a thoughtful reminder that progress is not about perfection, but about paying attention to what an animal communicates and adjusting with care.
Throughout this episode, we explore:✅ How a constructional approach supports clarity and confidence in cooperative care
✅ The role of shaping and splitting in teaching complex husbandry behaviors
✅ How wolf and wolf dog social dynamics influence training plans and outcomes
✅ Why emotional safety determines the appropriate pace of progression
✅ The value of experimentation, prototyping, and creative problem solving
✅ Long-term behavior planning and building repeatable learning loops
✅ How collaboration within a training team leads to better welfare and better resultsThis concluding conversation with Ryan offers practical insights, reflective moments, and a look into how science, creativity, and compassion shape meaningful work with apex species.
Links
https://wolfpark.org/
https://www.facebook.com/wolfparkindiana
https://www.instagram.com/wolfparkindiana/
Links to papers referred to during conversation:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40617-023-00890-1
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40617-023-00850-9
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In this first part of our conversation with Ryan Talbot, Behavioral Enrichment and Training Manager at Wolf Park, we dive into the winding and thoughtful path that brought him from computer engineering into the world of applied behavior analysis and cooperative care. Ryan shares how a formative visit to Wolf Park opened his eyes to the power of relationships built through understanding another being's umwelt, setting him on a path of lifelong learning in behavior science.
Across the episode, Ryan reflects on how engineering thinking and behavior analysis intersect in his work. He discusses debugging software versus analyzing behavior, the parallels between instrumentation and communication, and how these concepts helped shape his approach to training wolves with clarity and compassion. Ryan also describes the early cooperative care efforts at Wolf Park, from reducing reliance on human wolf bonds to developing voluntary, transferable husbandry behaviors with the help of colleagues and mentors.
Together, Ryan and host Ryan Cartlidge explore themes of motivation, imposter syndrome, community, and what it means to contribute to a field from an unconventional starting point. From building wooden target blocks to prototyping touchscreen devices for wolves, Ryan shares how creativity, curiosity, and open source values influence both his training and his desire to help others learn and grow alongside their animals.
Throughout this episode, we explore:✅ The moment at Wolf Park that sparked Ryan's interest in behavior and umwelt
✅ How engineering concepts like debugging and instrumentation map onto behavior analysis
✅ The evolution of cooperative care training with wolves and wolf dogs at Wolf Park
✅ Why Ryan sees behavior as a physical science governed by predictable laws
✅ The influence of mentors and colleagues throughout his learning journey
✅ Thoughts on imposter syndrome, industry identity, and finding one's place in the training community
✅ Open source values, tinkering, and creative tools that support clearer communication with learnersThis conversation offers a fascinating look at how diverse backgrounds enrich our field, and how curiosity and compassion can shape meaningful work with animals.
Links
https://wolfpark.org/
https://www.facebook.com/wolfparkindiana
https://www.instagram.com/wolfparkindiana/
Links papers referred to during conversation:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40617-023-00890-1
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40617-023-00850-9
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In this candid and practical conclusion to their two-part conversation, Ryan Cartlidge and Sara Brueske shift from the training field to the front office to discuss the business of animal training. Sara shares an "in the trenches" look at her journey into facility ownership and the evolution of her business, Happy Dog Lodge.
The conversation centers on a service model often debated within the positive reinforcement community: Board and Train. Sara offers a transparent look at the ethics, logistics, and communication strategies required to offer this service in a way that prioritises client education, successful skill transfer, and the wellbeing of the dog.
Beyond the specific service, Ryan and Sara discuss the broader challenges of entrepreneurship, from the weight of managing a team to the art of marketing to both clients and professional peers. Sara's insights provide a valuable roadmap for any trainer navigating the complexities of making their passion a sustainable profession.
Throughout this episode, we explore:
✅ The shift from solo sport trainer to facility owner and team leader
✅ A deep dive into the Board and Train model from a positive reinforcement perspective
✅ Strategies for ensuring successful training transfer from trainer to client
✅ The vital difference between marketing to your clients and marketing to your peers
✅ The real-world challenges and ethical considerations of running a training business
✅ How to build a service that meets market demand while upholding your training philosophyPart two is a must-listen for any training professional, offering an honest look at the sometimes uncomfortable but crucial business side of what we do and how to do it with integrity and foresight.
Links
Happy Dog Lodge - Boarding, Training, Grooming in Cambridge, MN
www.happydoglodge.comFenzi Dog Sports Academy
www.fenzidogsportsacademy.comFacebook page:
www.facebook.com/brueskesara -
In the first part of this energising two-part conversation, Ryan Cartlidge sits down with Sara Brueske, professional trainer, sport competitor, and owner of On the Run Canine Center. Known for her joyful approach to training and her skill across an impressive range of dog sports, Sara offers a refreshing and practical look at what motivates dogs to engage, play, and grow with us as partners.
Drawing from her decades of experience, Sara shares why play sits at the heart of her training philosophy and how intrinsic motivation can shape confident, resilient, and enthusiastic learners. She explores the art of keeping sessions light and fun, how to build engagement with dogs who are shy or easily overwhelmed, and why honouring the individual dog is central to sustainable sport training and family-dog work.
Ryan and Sara also unpack how games can support reactive and sensitive dogs, how choice contributes to emotional safety, and why optimism is a skill that can be developed through thoughtful reinforcement strategies. Beyond the mechanics of training, Sara offers generous insight into communication, relationship building, and supporting guardians to feel successful and empowered.
Throughout this episode, we explore:
✅ How play and intrinsic motivation strengthen engagement and partnership
✅ Strategies for helping shy, hesitant, or easily discouraged dogs build confidence
✅ Why variety, flexible criteria, and well-timed reinforcement keep dogs in an optimistic learning state
✅ The role of games and choice-based activities in supporting reactive or sensitive dogs
✅ How to balance performance goals with emotional wellbeing in dogs and handlers
✅ Sara's approach to guiding guardians through clear communication and achievable successWhether you are a dog sport enthusiast, a family-dog trainer, or someone looking to bring more joy into your daily training sessions, this conversation with Sara offers practical tools and thoughtful reminders that learning works best when everyone is having fun.
Links
Happy Dog Lodge - Boarding, Training, Grooming in Cambridge, MN
www.happydoglodge.com
Fenzi Dog Sports Academy
www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com
Facebook page:
www.facebook.com/brueskesara -
In this reflective and wisdom-filled conversation, Ryan Cartlidge welcomes back Lori Stevens, canine fitness, movement, and behavior specialist, creator of the Balance Harness, and long-time leader in the world of positive reinforcement training.
As Lori marks her retirement from the professional speaking circuit, she takes us through the lessons that have defined her teaching philosophy and the perspectives that continue to guide her today. Drawing from decades of experience, Lori shares how her background in dance and movement shaped her keen eye for posture, balance, and subtle physical cues, and how these factors profoundly influence both behavior and wellbeing.
Together, Ryan and Lori explore what it really means to be concise and precise as teachers, not just with our animal learners, but with the human ones too. From refining observation skills to simplifying feedback and setting learners up for success, Lori's insights reveal the quiet power of doing less to achieve more.
Throughout this episode, we discuss:
✅ Why movement, posture, and physical comfort are critical variables in behavior and learning
✅ The art of teaching with clarity, and the difference between being concise and being precise
✅ How giving "one to three things" to focus on can transform learning outcomes
✅ The importance of slowing down, observing deeply, and trusting the process
✅ Lori's reflections on mentorship, gratitude, and the evolving landscape of positive reinforcement trainingWhether you are a new trainer just finding your feet or a seasoned professional reflecting on your journey, this conversation is an inspiring reminder that every small, thoughtful step forward can be life-changing for both our learners and ourselves.
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In this insightful conclusion to our two-part conversation, Ellen Yoakum—Certified Separation Anxiety Pro Behavior Consultant, KPA CTP, and Behavior Consultant with Pet Harmony—returns to explore how we can thoughtfully apply the learning principles we use with our animal learners to ourselves and the humans we work with.
Building on the foundations of Part One, Ellen and Ryan dive into the complexities of generalization—how humans, much like our non-human learners, can struggle to transfer skills across contexts. From communication and empathy to client coaching and professional growth, Ellen offers compassionate strategies for building fluency, resilience, and sustainability in both behavior change and life.
Together, they explore:
✅ Translating behavioral principles from dogs to humans—and ourselves
✅ Creating safe learning spaces for clients, colleagues, and trainers alike
✅ How understanding "pain points" can reshape client plans and improve outcomes
✅ Teaching for generalization without overwhelming learners
✅ Rethinking perfection and building skills for recovery when "life gets lifey"Ellen's reflections on generalization, empathy, and sustainable growth remind us that training isn't just about the animals—it's about the entire learning ecosystem. Her insights leave us inspired to meet our learners where they are, celebrate progress over perfection, and approach every interaction—human or non-human—with curiosity and care.
Links
Enrichment for the Real World
Petharmonytraining.com
Pet Harmony on Instagram and Facebook
Pet Harmony Pro on Instagram and TikTok
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In this thoughtful first half of a two-part conversation, we're joined by the insightful and articulate Ellen Yoakum—Certified Separation Anxiety Pro Behavior Consultant, KPA CTP, and Behavior Consultant with Pet Harmony.
Ellen's path in animal behavior began at the University of Washington, where she immersed herself in captive animal welfare and enrichment research under mentors including Dr. Eduardo Fernandez, Dr. James Ha, and Dr. Renee Ha. From conducting enrichment studies with gray wolves, penguins, and brown bears to working with Natural Encounters Inc. on free-flight avian programs, Ellen's career has spanned species, disciplines, and continents—all united by her deep curiosity about the teacher–learner relationship.
Today, through her work with Pet Harmony, Ellen helps families and professionals navigate the complex needs of both human and non-human learners with compassion, creativity, and clarity. In this conversation, she and Ryan explore:
✅ The formative influence of Ellen's early research and mentors on her consulting approach
✅ How her experiences across species—from wolves to macaws—shaped her perspective on enrichment and welfare
✅ Why she finds comfort in being "the least knowledgeable person in the room"
✅ How interoception, emotional awareness, and naming our experiences support better communication and empathy
✅ The power of language, inclusive communication, and "assuming good intent" in our professional and personal relationshipsEllen's reflections invite us to embrace imperfection, lead with curiosity, and build training cultures grounded in good faith and shared growth. Stay tuned for part two, where we'll dive deeper into her work with Pet Harmony, mentorship, and sustainable strategies for supporting both people and their pets.
Links
Enrichment for the Real World
Petharmonytraining.com
Pet Harmony on Instagram and Facebook
Pet Harmony Pro on Instagram and TikTok
Bear Studies:
The Effects of Automated Scatter Feeders on Captive Grizzly Bear Activity Budgets
Seasonal and Daily Activity of Two Zoo-Housed Grizzly Bears (Ursus Arctos Horribilis)
Caregiver Burden Resources
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In this second half of our two-part conversation, we're joined again by the insightful Megan Sanders—zoo behavior consultant, educator, and long-time advocate for evidence-based training.
Building on Part One, where we explored Megan's career journey and the value of leaning into discomfort, this episode dives into her master's thesis research on how best to teach the teachers—animal trainers themselves. Megan shares how tools like Behavior Skills Training (BST) and PORTL can systematically shape trainer mechanics, improve procedural fidelity, and ultimately lead to less stressed, more successful animals.
Together, we explore:
✅ Why training trainers deserves the same precision and care as training animals
✅ How PORTL, peer feedback, and goats became unlikely research allies
✅ The challenges of measuring trainer skill and bridging it to real-world animal outcomes
✅ Why "the why" matters—giving trainers logical, observable reasons behind every step
✅ How research leaves us with more questions (and why that's a good thing)Megan's story reminds us that the heart of effective animal care often starts with how we teach the humans holding the leash, bucket, or target stick. By bringing clarity, systematic teaching, and curiosity to the process, Megan is helping shape a future where trainers feel more confident, animals thrive, and the science of behavior continues to grow.
Links
https://www.behaviorworks.org/
https://absc.ku.edu/
https://behaviorexplorer.com/
- Visa fler
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