Avsnitt
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In a sea of marketing advice and growth hacks, let’s address the elephant in the room. What if the product is the problem?
If your product - your podcast, your service, your course - isn’t good enough, no amount of marketing is going to make that product grow. And yet, most courses, cohorts, or even higher-priced coaching programs don’t get into the actual experience of your work. Many providers are just not in the business of experiencing your business and your product (because it’s not as scalable).
And so podcast strategist Jeremy Enns has changed his business model to address that core issue. Instead of zigging, focusing on growth through courses and membership - which, as a purchaser, are truly outstanding - Jeremy’s zagging. Instead, Jeremy is embracing depth, obsession over the product, and care.
Jeremy is the founder of Podcast Marketing Academy where he helps underdog creators and challenger brands punch above their weight by engineering scrappy, yet sophisticated podcast growth & revenue generation strategies and step-by-step marketing schematics. He’s originally from the cold, barren Canadian Prairies but now lives in sunny Barcelona.
In today’s episode, hear how Jeremy’s depth-first approach is changing his business and client results:
* Why no marketing strategy can save a product no one wants - and what to do about it.
* The ‘aggressively human’ way Jessica and Jeremy met way before Jessica had a business, and how that impacted our relationship.
* Jeremy’s evolution from a highly-scaled business model to a high-touch service: why he did it and what it’s unlocking for his clients AND for his revenue
* When obsessing over your work is a differentiating factor in your marketing and delivery (and why your clients will thank you for it).
* How caring (yes, really) is Jeremy’s most effective marketing strategy, including what Jeremy cares about (and what he doesn’t care about).
* The automations that keep Jeremy in touch with his audience without being on the content hamster wheel.
About Our Guest:
Follow Jeremy Enns
LinkedIn
Scrappy Podcasting Newsletter: https://podcastmarketingacademy.com/scrappy-podcasting-newsletter/
Podcast Marketing Trends Explained Podcast: https://podcastmarketingacademy.com/podcast-marketing-trends-explained
Podcast Marketing Academy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podcastmarketingacademy
Resources Mentioned:
* The Do Lectures
* https://hiutdenim.co.uk/
* NeuroDiversion 2025 (the conference from the World Domination Summit creators)
Connect with Us:
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
“It's because even if you end up completely rewriting it, it starts out without the human soul. And it's really hard to add the human soul. But if you can start with even the messiest human written draft, and then use AI to make it better, it has human soul to begin with, and it just ends up a much more human and resonant piece of writing.” - Jessica M
You’ve probably noticed it—the emails that don’t sound quite right, the sales pages full of word salad, the content that feels like it was written by a robot. Because it probably was.
This week we’re talking with Jessica Mehring, founder of Horizon Peak Consulting, specializing in conversion-focused editorial content, campaign copy and content strategy for B2B tech companies. She is also an author, speaker, and university lecturer, and she coaches leaders and their teams how to grow trust with their own writing. Where should AI fit into the writing process - or should it at all? How is AI impacting our communication and creativity - and how we can use it for the better?
In today’s episode:
- How the mixing of AI and human communication is eroding trust, starting way before ChatGPT came on to the scene.
- Why everything that comes out of GPT sounds oddly similar (introducing Jessica L’s new favorite term language homogeny)
- The right ways to use AI to be a tool in your content without removing the soul of your writing or introducing bias.
- Why one moment of friction in communication can cause us to question our trust in a company.
- If you have to use AI because you’re in an firm with a mandate to do so, where and how you might use AI (and where to avoid).
- How women (and other underrepresented voices) are mobilizing for seats at the AI development table.
“We go check out the social media and it's just this robotic slop. I look at that and I see a minuscule moment of friction in the customer experience, but that moment of friction is all it takes for a customer to question. ‘Do I believe everything else I've read? Can I trust this company? Should I give them my money?’ One moment of friction in the customer experience across the spectrum of content is enough for customers to question their purchase. And you never want customers to question their purchase.” - Jessica M
About our Guest
Jessica’s Thought Leadership and Teaching
Trust Fall: The Communication Connection
Horizon Peak Consulting
Resources Mentioned
The Perception Gap: When is it okay to use AI in content, and when is it not?
Real Voices in your Ears
Connect with Us:
Subscribe to the Substack:
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
Saknas det avsnitt?
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Who hasn’t set up a system (or hired someone else to do so) that seems to make your efficiency dreams come true... and that just didn't happen. Or worse? Broke your business.
The alternative? Embracing Simplicity over Systems. Embracing Simplicity over Systems, another core Aggressively Human pillar. How can we be thoughtful about where and how we use systems to be in service, instead of just buying systems as a service.
And who better to bring in our episode is fellow Ops brain Nikki McKnight. Nikki McKnight (she/her) is an operations and systems strategist for creatives who want to develop operations & systems that create industry-leading experiences for their clients. And yes, she’s also Meg’s co-host on the romance podcast First Dates and Soulmates - because successful millennials need hobbies too, right?
In today’s episode, hear our discussion about the role of systems in an “aggressively human” business
- The definition of “systems” you hear 99% of the time and why that’s one of the biggest myths we’re busting
- Why a fully automated customer journey might be the worst thing for your business
- The systems investments we regret and the tools we couldn’t run our businesses without (including Nikki’s Ninja Dashboard)
- Why all three of us embrace a “tool agnostic” approach in how we talk about systems and automations with our clients (and why that helps both our clients and us!).
- How to avoid giving away power - in all its definitions - to software, contractors, or algorithms and keep agency over your business decisions.
- Ways to use automations to prevent (or in some cases add) friction to improve your client experience… but only if you know where and why that’s happening
“A system is … a vehicle for everybody involved in the ecosystem to make a decision. Whether that is me as a business owner, whether that is a member of my team, whether that is a client that I am working with, whether it is a member of my audience that is not yet a client or may not ever be, the whole goal here is how do we make decisions? That's it. Full stop.” - Nikki
About our Guest
Nikki McKnight: http://www.theopsshop.biz/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkimcknight/
Subscribe to FAFO: the systems newsletter for creatives who hate 'em: https://theopsshop.biz/fafo/
Resources Mentioned:
Donella Meadows - Thinking in Systems
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
“So maybe we're leaving or maybe we're staying, but we're staying as a person versus as a business owner. But then everyone is scattering. As a business, how are we marketing to people when it's diffuse? And then as a person, it's like, well, where's everyone going now? And how can I be there with my friends?” - Jessica
Every year, it feels like January is just the longest month ever.
But this year has felt like a whiplash between the beginning of the year until recording on January 24, 2025. Meta policy changes, TikTok ban and un-ban and more.
So we’ve broken from our schedule to cover a special “January 2025” state of play in the world of AI, algorithms, and automations.
We don’t have answers, because nobody does. We just simply have questions, and thoughts about how we might navigate this season. But hopefully this conversation can give you some food for thought about the questions we’re asking, and how these changes might have long-term ramifications on your overall marketing strategy — and mental health.
In today’s episode we discuss:
- The shifting currency of power: why attention is the world’s most valuable resource
- The cost of building your business on rented land, and what happens when the platform changes overnight
- The thorny questions around staying or leaving social media platforms
- What costs we might pay to leave the “free” platforms
- How your potential client behavior factors into where you can connect with them, and how to operate when that’s not necessarily where you want to spend time
- Why discernment is the word of the year when it comes to choosing where to put your time and attention
Join the Convo on Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
“AI cannot come up with new ideas. It can paste things together in new ways perhaps, but it's still it's still the monkeys on the typewriters, right? It's still the infinite monkey thing. It's just mashing together old ideas in new ways perhaps, but it can't come up with truly unique new ideas.” - Lacy Boggs
This week, we’re talking with Lacy Boggs, founder of the Content Direction Agency but also has done every business model in the online entrepreneurship space. We talk pivots, thought leadership, and how to stand out in the age of more content than ever.
In today’s episode we cover:
- How Lacy has decided what she wants to be when she grows up (and why her eulogy won’t be “I wrote marketing copy”).
- When should you pivot and descale and how that impacts your relationship to your body, your business, and marketing
- Where the human element is non-negotiable in coming up with new thoughts - not just AI mashing together old ideas
- The distinction between thought leadership and thought performance - and how to move beyond LinkedIn hot takes and selfies
- What tools are in Lacy’s toolkit in order to curate, compost, and communicate new thoughts and ideas
“I don't want AI to do my art and thinking - I want it to do my dishes and get my groceries, right? I want it to do the menial things so that I could do the art, and that's where I think we're probably going wrong.” - Lacy Boggs
About Our Guest:
Follow Lacy Boggs:
https://lacyboggs.com/
Lacy’s Content Solution
The Thought Leader Lab
Resources Mentioned:
Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg
Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Black Oracle Goddess Within Oracle Deck
Inoreader - Build Your Own News Feed
Readwise
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
“I don't want to calculate my churn without knowing every single person who leaves.” - Meg
For businesses like ours, community is the lifeblood of a strong business. And when we are talking about community, we’re not just talking about an online platform where you can post in a forum. We’re talking about, as Meg says, “people who give a sh*t about each other”.
In today’s podcast, we dive into the Aggressively Human philosophy of Community > Commodity.
- Why being part of a community where everybody knows your name is a business advantage, not just a feel-good moment.
- The difference between real community and what most online businesses call "community" (hint: it’s not a forum or a membership site).
- How reciprocity flips the script from one-off transactions to a gift economy that ripples and expands out farther than you can see.
- Why community is so "hot" right now—and why it’s impossible to maintain if you’re only in it for the money.
- How pools, hubs, and webs are more than just metaphors—they’re frameworks for how communities are shaped
- The problem with treating your clients as commodities and what it really takes to create loyalty and trust.
- How community creates shared values and language that lead to better retention, referrals, and results.
Mentioned in the Episode:
Getting Brand Communities Right (pools, hubs, webs metaphor)
Expert Up Club - Dr. Michelle Mazur
A Wild New Work Podcast - Megan Leatherman
Referral Worthy Podcast - Dusti Arab
Savvy Social School (now the Mindful Marketing Lab) - Andreá Jones
Mighty Networks People Magic - Gina Bianchini
Connect with Us:
Comment on the Substack
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
The act of podcasting - recording it, editing it, and listening to it - is one of the most embodied acts in content creation. Because no matter how good the AI bots sound, there’s something simply human about listening to someone else’s authentic voice in your earbuds.
Today’s interview is with amelia hruby, founder of Softer Sounds podcast production studio and host of the Off the Grid podcast. Amelia has some strong points of view about AI in the podcasting industry, and the power of a human-oriented podcast process.
In today’s episode we dive into:
- The power of podcasting to bring our ideas to life and build trust in a way that is distinct to writing
- Why Softer Sounds leads with the voice in all aspects of the creation and production process (not just in the editing process)
- What happens when you take your magical, unique, sparkly creations and run them through AI processing and show notes (hint - they become dull, generic, choppy, and overly polished).
- How Amelia leads with her human-first and audio-first values - and how that is a powerful filter for the clients she works with
- The less obvious way you market and sell a higher-touch - and higher-cost - level of service
- The unexpected benefits from having multiple people on the other end of the podcast production process
“I built a lighthouse in my business that isn't really about podcasting, but brings to me people who are willing to ask hard questions about how they're willing and want to show up in their business” - Amelia
About Our Guest:
Follow Amelia
Softer Sounds
Off the Grid Podcast
All of Amelia’s Other Podcasts!
Connect with Us:
Subscribe to the Substack and get the full show notes:
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
Dialogue over Monologue: Our next Aggressively Human pillar.
AI and automations can make it easy to have “faux-dialogue”: where you’re sent tons and tons of “personalized” emails, or you think you’re having a conversation with someone but you’re really just talking to an AI agent or a bot. And dialogue comes with risk: when you open up your world for real conversations, you might hear “no” or get people disagreeing with you.
In today's podcast we dive into:
- Why we might shy away from dialogue, but why Meg and Jessica chose this as a core Aggressively Human philosophy
- When you might actually choose automation over dialogue
- How dialogue reduces the gap between your ideas and real feedback (and why shouting into the void won’t get you there)
- Why we decided to co-host this podcast (and how we rely on each other and other colleagues in our work)
- The power of real time listening in order to pivot to the market (and keep making sales)
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt
Jessica Lackey
Resources
Josh Spector’s For the Interested newsletter
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
Dr. Michelle Mazur - messaging strategist and community builder for experts - has a point of view about sales for experts and other service-based businesses. Because the lower-touch approach to sales that might have worked a few years ago isn't working as well anymore.
In today’s episode, you’ll hear about how Michelle is taking a human-centric approach to sales and community building.
- Private tours, 80% conversions, zero sleaze—hear her sales process that is part college tour, part vibe check.
- “But it doesn’t scale!!” How to think about sales when you’re selling high-touch, high-value, or high-cost services.
- Want to speed up the buying cycle with automation and AI? Maybe not - how slowing down your sales process can actually make you the fastest closer in a weird economy.
- "No one buys community": what happens when you build community people didn’t know they needed—and how fast they connect once they’re inside.
- Marketing isn’t guesswork— how the quarterly marketing experiments in the Expert Up Club help her (and her clients) stop wasting time and start seeing results.
- Michelle’s “situationship” with Claude AI, and where this tool fits into her marketing system and tech stack
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt: https://loveatfirstsearch.com/
Jessica Lackey: https://www.jessicalackey.com/
About our Guest
Michelle Mazur’s Three Word Rebellion – Her book that helps experts create clear, compelling messaging.
The Expert Up Club – Michelle’s community for experts focused on "do less but better" marketing.
Resources
The Duped Podcast – Co-hosted by Michelle Mazur and Maggie Patterson, exploring the dark side of online business.
Heidi Taylor – A sales coach mentioned in connection with Michelle’s business journey.
Claude AI – An AI tool Michelle uses to streamline her messaging work, particularly analyzing voice-of-customer data.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
Big audiences mean big revenue.... right? Maybe. But maybe not.
What if the money isn’t actually in your list, but instead in the relationships with the people on your list?
What if for service providers, it’s about the right people on your list, versus more people on your list?
What if it’s not about contacts and conversion rates, but instead about connections and conversations?
In this episode, hear our Aggressively Human philosophy #1: Conversations over Contacts.
- When the money isn’t in the banana stand (or your list) and the power of smaller, engaged lists
- What happens when you start conversations with your email subscribers (and why you’ll never take sales calls out of our business models)
- Busting the paradigm of “conversion rates” and search volume and why we need to think differently about how we engage with our subscribers as service providers (and why 10 parents searching for dyslexia help for their child locally can be better than 10,000 clicks.)
- Why your business model informs your audience growth strategy (and why Jessica is leaning in to growing her list without the pressure to “monetize it” right away)
- Learn how Meg turns referrals into future collaborations (and it’s not through an automated sequence)
Resources:
Give to Grow by Mo Bunnell
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
When your family expands, the goal should be to automate more, to delegate more, and keep business as usual, right? Not for today’s guest.
Andréa Jones is a marketing and social media strategist that recently left the high-pressure agency world behind after the birth of her second child, focusing now on marketing strategy and a marketing strategy membership. In this episode, learn her aggressively human approach to marketing, community management, her business model and oh yes - doing business while being a parent.
- The shift from the Savvy Social brand to the Mindful Marketing brand, and how that fits in with her community-centric approach to marketing
- How parenthood shifted Andréa’s approach to work, parenting, and saying “no”
- The “aha” moment that had her questioning her whole business model, after working with some of the biggest names in online business.
- Andréa’s current and future marketing strategy, now that she’s no longer running her agency
About Our Guest:
Follow Andréa Jones: https://onlinedrea.com/
Resources Mentioned:
Mindful Marketing Podcast: Dark Social: What is it + How it’s Affecting Your Business
Andréa’s The Everything Page
Elizabeth Goddard’s Original Everything Page
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt: https://loveatfirstsearch.com/
Jessica Lackey: https://www.jessicalackey.com/
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
“I'm just a girl looking around the internet trying not to stare at my own reflection on Zoom all day.”
What does being Aggressively Human mean? And why would two very busy service-based business owners start yet another podcast, when we could be instead posting 5 times a day on social media?
Tune in to hear the origin story of the Aggressively Human idea: what it is and where it came from and why we're collaborating on it.
- The Birth of “Aggressively Human”: How Jessica and Meg met, and the turn of phrase that got stuck in Meg’s head like a Smash Mouth song and turned into this podcast
- What being “Aggressively Human” means to us and why it’s a zig to more relational strategies in business when the market appears to be zagging
- Why this podcast is so relevant for us now, both as collaborators and business owners, based on the market trends in AI, automations, and algorithms. (Ensh*ttification of the internet, we’re looking at you).
- The format of the podcast, including interviews and behind-the-scenes looks at our own businesses
View the Full Show notes on our Substack: https://aggressivelyhuman.substack.com/
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Meg and Jessica
Meg Casebolt: https://loveatfirstsearch.com/
Jessica Lackey: https://www.jessicalackey.com/
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com -
Our world is becoming increasingly automated & AI-generated. What does that mean for your business?
For experts & service-based businesses, the answer isn’t always to chase the trends … it’s to be Aggressively Human.
Join co-hosts Jessica Lackey, business strategist, and Meg Casebolt, search marketing specialist, as we share behind-the-scenes of running our own businesses by embracing connection and discussing how we can use technology to be more human.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit aggressivelyhuman.substack.com
