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New Scientist Discovery Tours runs 100 tours with a team of four, works with six operator partners worldwide, and has guests putting deposits down on a solar eclipse in Australia in 2028. The entire operation is built around one idea: go to the same places as everyone else, but tell a story nobody else is telling.
Kevin Currie, Director of New Scientist Discovery Tours, joined the company in 2019 to build what three journalists had started off the side of their desks. The pitch was simple: curate an itinerary around a science story, not a destination, and put an expert on the tour who can actually tell it. Kevin spent months in due diligence before signing on, looking at guest feedback, partner relationships, and industry data. Experiential travel was growing at 19% annually, roughly double the rate of standard travel. He built a business case, launched 20 tours, sold most of them out, and then lost everything to the pandemic. New Scientist kept him. He's been building since 2022 with a team of four.
The episode covers how New Scientist structures tour development from the inside of a media company, what Kevin looks for when he chooses scientists to accompany tours, and how the team manages a supply chain of partner operators, DMCs, and tour leaders without becoming a tour operator themselves. Kevin explains why they work with only six partners and why the pre-departure briefing between the expert and the tour leader is one of the most important things they do. He describes the 4.6-kilometer walk in the Brecon Beacons where every hundred meters represents 100 million years of Earth's history, and the moment a guest looks up and realizes the last 20 centimeters represent all of human existence. The episode is also a case study in how a niche operator competes not by being cheaper, but by doing the thing competitors literally cannot copy: getting the science right.
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Elyrea sells a kind of tour no traveler would think to search for, and Jean-Vladimir Deniau built the whole company around that fact.
Jean-Vladimir Deniau is the founder of Elyrea, a French company that builds character-based immersive performances for the tourism market. The format is specific: a professional actor embodies a historical figure, Coco Chanel near Place Vendôme, Hemingway around Montparnasse, a GI on Omaha Beach, and walks a small group through that figure's neighborhood telling the story of their life. Deniau does not call himself a tour operator. He calls Elyrea a "Lego brick" that DMCs and tour operators build into the experiences they sell. The company has 15 of these performances running, almost all in France, and there is a structural problem at the center of it: nobody knows to ask for a tour with Coco Chanel, so the business cannot wait for B2C search demand. That one fact shapes how Elyrea picks its characters, how it sells, and how it funds itself.
Mitch and Deniau cover the business behind the tours. Why Elyrea sells to the trade first and keeps its strongest tours off OTAs entirely. The capital-light model that built 15 tours with no outside investor. The four design rules behind a 90-minute performance, starting with the claim that you win or lose the audience in the first minute. And the recruitment problem of training an actor who learns the whole show, performs twice, and quits because the street is not the theater. Deniau also names the advice he would give any operator building an emotional experience: stay true to the place, do not overplay it, and keep the technology out of the way.
Resources:
Elyrea: elyrea.comLive actor booking for trade partners: elyrea.com/booking"The Colossus of Marousi" by Henry Miller, the travel book Deniau cites as the original spark
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Saknas det avsnitt?
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Most tour operators benchmark pricing against competitors and copy the playbook of the loudest voices in the industry. Mary Collins runs two businesses by ignoring both and starting from the question an anthropologist asks first: who benefits.
Mary Collins is the founder and CEO of Blue Fern Travel, a DC food tour company she launched with her husband in 2014, and the owner of Far Horizons Archaeology and Cultural Tours, the 40-year-old multi-day company she acquired in 2022. Both businesses sit on the same foundation: an anthropologist's instinct for community, story, and the economics of who benefits from a tour. Blue Fern pays full price at every restaurant, tips every server 20 percent, and routes a portion of every ticket back to a local nonprofit. Far Horizons travels with a PhD scholar from morning to night, caps at 14 guests, and spends two hours at sites where most competitors spend 30 minutes.
This episode is a working session on running two very different tour businesses from the same operating philosophy. Mitch and Mary go deep on hiring for personality over knowledge, pricing into demand instead of against the competition, building DMC relationships that survive a 20-year operator transition, and the specific moment Peter Syme had to tell her twice to raise her prices. She walks through what it took to inherit a beloved 40-year-old brand from its 80-year-old founder, the FileMaker-to-WeTravel tech overhaul, and the donation model that has routed half a million dollars to archaeological sites worldwide. Operators running food tours, scholar-led tours, or any business with a returning customer base will find concrete, actionable material here.
Resources:
Blue Fern Travel (blueferntravel.com)Far Horizons Archaeology and Cultural Tours (farhorizons.com)Bread for the City (Blue Fern's donation partner)WeTravel (Far Horizons' booking platform)
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Adam Guy runs I Know A Guy NYC Tours, a solo private tour business he started after quitting a 25-year fundraising and marketing career during COVID. Mitch and Adam unpack what it actually looks like to refuse the standard playbook of growth, hiring, and operational scale, and instead build a six-figure business around one person and a defined niche. Adam stays in New York City. He runs only private small group tours, half day or full day, averaging about three and a half guests. He's raised his prices five times in four years and has zero plans to open a second city.
The conversation digs into the mechanics that make this work. Adam treats the pre-tour phone call as marketing, drops a handwritten welcome kit at the hotel before the guest arrives, posts personal stories about guests on Facebook every day with a four to five week delay, and writes guest personas before he writes copy. He breaks down his actual numbers: 252 tours, 88 percent margin, 75 percent of business from word of mouth and social, an SEO channel that grew from 1 percent to 11 percent. He explains why he says no to food tours, comic book tours, and a second city, and how he refers those guests out without taking a commission. Operators will walk away with a working model for building pricing power, brand gravity, and repeat referrals as a one-person business.
Resources:
I Know A Guy NYC Tours (Instagram and Facebook: @iknowaguynyc)Trip School, where Adam credits the bootcamp as part of his start
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There is no itinerary. No promised outcome. And a 98 percent five-star review rate.
Geetika Agrawal is the founder and CEO of Vacation With An Artist (VAWAA), a platform connecting travelers with master artists in 42 countries for multi-day, one-on-one apprenticeships. The business does not sell tours. It sells access to process: five to six days in an artist's studio, working directly alongside practitioners of pottery, calligraphy, natural dyeing, quilting, shoemaking, and dozens of other craft traditions rooted in place and culture. There is no itinerary. No guaranteed finished product. No group of strangers to manage around. Just immersive making alongside people who have spent decades mastering their practice.
Geetika brings 20 years as a human-centered designer, including work at Disney Imagineering, L'Oreal, and Lincoln Center, to an operation run by a team of four with artists across 42 countries. Mitch and Geetika talk through how she vets artists (the internal bar: is this worth flying that far?), how she designed onboarding systems and feedback loops to maintain quality at scale, and why VAWAA has grown 25 to 30 percent organically for two consecutive years, hitting 50 percent growth this year, without a dollar in paid advertising. She also walks through the decision at the center of everything: sell the process, not the outcome. That decision, she argues, is directly why 98 percent of reviews are five stars.
Resources:
VAWAA: vacationwithanartist.com or vawaa.comGeetika Agrawal on LinkedIn
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Karl Wilder started The Chef Tours with 300 euros, no advertising budget, and a radical premise: spend the majority of your ticket price on food and wine, not marketing, and let your guests do the talking. It worked: 70% of his bookings now come from referrals.
Karl spends upwards of six months developing each new city, walking streets with his dog Milou, watching how vendors cook, tasting obsessively, choosing unique neighborhoods that other operators avoid. No two tours are the same: every tour shifts based on who's in the group, what's in season, which stand is having a great day. Groups are capped at six. There are no scripts. Chefs — not guides — run every experience, sharing their own lives, kitchens, and relationships with the city.
In this episode, Karl and Tourpreneur host Mitch Bach dig into why this model works, how to develop tours through deep neighborhood immersion rather than clipboard research, why he's selling a "development tour" as he explores the next city Buenos Aires, what operators get wrong about food storytelling, and why the messiest, most human, most unrepeatable experiences are the ones people can't stop talking about.
Visit The Chef ToursFollow Karl on LinkedIn
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Most tour operators know they should stand out. Very few are willing to say something specific enough to actually do it.
Yulia Denisyuk is a journalist, storyteller, and independent trip operator who has spent years watching the travel industry default to the same itineraries, the same highlights, and the same cheerful marketing, while the travelers who might actually connect with something real keep looking for it elsewhere. She and Mitch don't spend much time on tactics. They spend most of this conversation on the harder question: what does it actually mean to build a travel business around something you believe, and what does that require you to give up?
The conversation covers the rise of creator-led trips and why personal trust has effectively replaced brand trust for a growing share of travelers. Yulia makes a practical case for why a narrow, specific position, one that tells potential travelers what you won't do as clearly as what you will, is a more durable business strategy than chasing broader appeal. She also shares a framework for pitching your business to media that has nothing to do with your destination and everything to do with the larger conversation your trips are part of. By the end, the episode lands somewhere most travel business podcasts don't: the question of whether the goal is a five-star review from a self-actualized traveler, or something that actually changes the relationship between the people on your trip and the communities they're visiting.
Top TakeawaysYour trips should reflect your personal lens on a destination, not the consensus itinerary. 6:23 – 8:32 Yulia doesn't bring her Jordan groups to Jerash — one of the most recognized ancient Roman sites in the region — because she personally didn't connect with it, and the trip is built around what she can honestly advocate for. This creates a natural filter: you're not trying to reach everyone, you're reaching people who share your specific way of seeing a place. Operators who copy the standard itinerary end up competing on price and social media polish, and that's a fight most small operators lose.Slow, longer trips are a competitive position — not an apology. 5:44 – 6:22 Yulia's Jordan trips run longer than the industry standard for that destination, by design, because real connection with local people takes time. Most group tours to Jordan are built for efficiency; hers is built for depth, which draws a traveler who isn't cross-shopping on price. If your trip length is determined by what the market seems to expect rather than what the experience actually requires, that's worth revisiting.The creator-led trip works because personal trust has replaced brand trust. 8:32 – 9:57 Younger travelers have largely stopped trusting institutional brands and marketing, and they're redirecting that trust toward people whose worldview they already follow. An operator who has built any kind of content presence around a clear point of view can convert that trust directly into bookings, without the credibility-building work that larger brands spend years establishing. The itinerary becomes secondary. People are buying the person and the lens.Cutting standard highlights from your itinerary can be more compelling than adding them. 9:30 – 9:57 Yulia tells prospective travelers that her groups experience Petra differently than 98% of group tours — rejecting the Indiana Jones angle that most operators default to because pop culture and Instagram demand it. Telling someone what you won't do, and why, signals that you've thought harder about the experience than operators who simply include everything on the standard list. That editorial curation communicates expertise faster than any feature list.Distrust in mainstream media is spilling directly into how people choose travel operators. 11:06 – 12:09 The same collapse of credibility that has sidelined legacy publications is operating in the tour space: people want to travel with someone who stands for something, not a company whose primary message is "great experiences await." Yulia draws a direct line between the rise of independent journalists and the rise of creator-led trips, framing both as responses to the same cultural shift. Operators who communicate a consistent worldview — even a narrow or unfashionable one — are building the kind of trust that no ad spend can manufacture."Authenticity" is a dead word. A specific point of view is not. 13:00 – 13:22 Yulia's argument is that the word authenticity has been so thoroughly absorbed by marketing copy that it now means nothing, and that what people actually want is someone willing to say what they believe. For a tour operator, that means your website and social content should state a specific stance on travel — not just that you care about local culture, but what you think is broken about how most people experience it and what you're doing instead. A declared position creates a community. A vague claim of authenticity disappears into the noise.Ignoring what's happening in the world right now reads as tone-deaf to a growing share of travelers. 13:44 – 15:24 Yulia describes a tour operator who opened a conference presentation with the words "the room is on fire" as one of the most powerful moments she'd witnessed at an industry event in years — because almost nobody else does it. Travelers who are paying attention to what's happening in Gaza, in immigration enforcement, in the communities they're visiting are looking for operators who are paying attention too. Operators who maintain cheerful, context-free marketing are losing those travelers, and those travelers tend to book multi-day, high-investment trips.Most travel experiences are designed for the visitor, not the community — and that gap is an opening. 17:00 – 17:57 Yulia's conversation with Jordanian operator Muna Haddad surfaces a blunt question: who gets to tell the story of a place, and whose voice is actually centered in the experience? The honest answer is that most itineraries are curated around what the visiting traveler wants to see, not what local communities want to share or how they want to be represented. Operators who build trips around local agency — where the community is the narrator, not the scenery — are genuinely differentiated, and they tend to generate the kind of word-of-mouth that no marketing budget replaces.Making locals the narrators, not the backdrop, is a structural choice you can make right now. 19:19 – 19:41 Yulia describes her role on her Jordan trips as providing the container through which her Jordanian friends tell their own stories. This is a design decision, not just a philosophy: it shapes the encounters, the pacing, and the framing of the entire trip. Day tour operators can apply this immediately by shifting from "I'll show you this place" to "I'll introduce you to the people who can tell you about it."The industry has figured out personal transformation. Collective transformation is still unclaimed territory. 20:16 – 21:15 Yulia names a specific gap: travel reliably delivers personal transformation — the traveler returns changed — but almost never delivers collective transformation, where the relationship between the traveler and the local community actually shifts. Most marketing, including "transformational travel" marketing, focuses entirely on what happens to the individual. Operators who design for mutual exchange rather than one-directional traveler growth are building toward something the industry hasn't yet learned to sell, which means there's real space there.Saturated markets don't require you to compete differently. They require you to compete on meaning. 6:23 – 6:35, 37:17 – 39:12 Yulia operates in Jordan, one of the most crowded group travel markets, and the Barcelona-based operator Aborijans runs in one of the world's most overtouristed cities — both have built distinct positions by naming a specific problem (stereotypes about Jordan, fake tapas tours in Barcelona) and presenting their product as the honest alternative. The positioning isn't just ethical; it does the marketing work because it gives travelers a reason to feel good about choosing you over the default. What you're pushing against is as important as what you're offering.A specific social mission functions as a self-executing marketing filter. 34:07 – 35:48 Yulia cites Sororal, a tour operator focused entirely on gender violence and women-led travel, as an example of a company whose story closes the sale before any conversation starts: a traveler who cares about that issue lands on the website and already knows this is their trip. The more specific the mission, the less you have to explain yourself — the right traveler self-identifies and converts without a long persuasion process. For multi-day operators in particular, this kind of specificity also makes press outreach dramatically easier, because the story has a hook that editors can actually place.When pitching media, your destination is not the story. The larger conversation your tour speaks to is. 41:25 – 43:42 Yulia's framework for a placeable pitch has four components: tie it to a larger trend, bring something genuinely newsworthy, identify a cultural relevance angle (what national or global conversation does your product touch?), and match it to the right publication's actual beat. Her example — a Puerto Rico operator connecting their product to the national conversation about Puerto Rican autonomy — shows what cultural timing can do -
When AI bots can generate endless facts and flawless narratives, what’s left for human tour guides? This week Mitch Bach sits down with VoiceMap founder Iain Manley to explore the future of storytelling in travel, from his perspective as a journalist and developer of a self-guided audio tour app powered by human creators. We dive into the power of personal perspective and the new risks of playing it safe with stale, objective facts but no humanity. This episode challenges tour operators to rethink what makes an experience truly unforgettable in 2026—and why being more human, more vulnerable, and even more imperfect might be your competitive advantage.
In this episode we cover:
Why AI is forcing tour guides to rethink their roleThe difference between information and true storytellingHow “personal” stories can reshape how people see a placeWhy generic, fact-based tours are becoming obsoleteThe surprising way AI is already hurting mediocre toursHow to create experiences AI can’t replicateThe power of subjectivity, emotion, and lived experienceWhy taking creative risks is now essential for tour businessesThe hidden danger of optimizing for 5-star reviewsWhat great storytelling looks like in the age of AIAs always, show notes and more resources on tourpreneur.com
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Mitch Bach talks with Jenn Barbee, co-founder of Destination Innovate, about the real inner workings of DMOs, those three letters that every tour operator has an opinion about but few actually understand. Jenn has spent 30 years inside destination marketing, from a shoestring US Department of Commerce team trying to promote America on a $50,000 budget to her current work closing the gap between DMOs and the small businesses they are supposed to serve. The conversation covers how DMOs get funded, why they sit on valuable visitor data, and what tour operators can actually do to get beyond the dead-end website listing.
It goes further than the typical "how to work with your tourism board" advice. Jenn and Mitch get into the identity crisis hitting tour operators and DMOs at the same time: both are losing ground to OTA platforms, both need direct guest relationships, and neither is building enough local partnerships to fight back. They talk short-term rental hosts as untapped referral channels, guerrilla marketing tactics that cost almost nothing, and the hard truth about inbound tourism to the US heading into World Cup and the 250th anniversary.
Key TakeawaysYour DMO has expensive visitor data that could sharpen your product, pricing, and ads, but they will not hand it over unless you ask. 06:14 – 07:19 DMOs invest in data about visitor appetite, competing markets, and traveler clusters by neighborhood and interest type. That information rarely trickles down to small tour businesses because DMOs feel pressure to contextualize it or fear judgment on their numbers. Frame your ask around strengthening the destination's tourism product, not just helping your business, and you stand a real chance of getting access to insights you could never afford on your own.The single best first move with your DMO is to find the community manager and introduce yourself with specific visitor language, not a sales pitch. 11:48 – 12:58 Audit your tour product against what the destination website is promoting in terms of itineraries or themes, then reach out where you see a match or a gap. Lead with collaboration. Once you have that baseline, you can inch toward higher-value asks like data sharing or co-promotion, but only after you have earned the relationship through showing up and being useful.Survey your customers about whether they booked the experience before the hotel, then bring that data to the DMO. 56:29 – 56:39 If you can show a DMO that your tour attracted bed nights, you are speaking their only real language: occupancy and bed tax justification. Most tour operators never collect this data, and most DMOs have never seen it from a small business. It positions you as a strategic asset rather than another name on a listings page.DMOs are shifting from marketing organizations to stewardship organizations, and that tension is something you can use. 08:50 – 09:59 Many DMOs now describe themselves as "destination management" or "stewardship" organizations, moving toward what is right for their communities. Their boards and bed tax collectors still want heads-in-beds KPIs. If your tour disperses visitors into underserved neighborhoods, supports local businesses, or tells a more honest destination story, you become the kind of partner that helps a DMO justify its new direction to the people holding the purse strings.Getting listed on the DMO website is a win. Stop underestimating it. 13:10 – 13:45 Many operators treat a listing as table stakes, but some DMOs do not even offer that without a paid membership. If you are listed, follow up by tagging the DMO constantly on social media and feeding them content they can reshare within their brand guidelines. The social media managers have more flexibility than the executive staff and will amplify content that feels fresh or on-brand.If your local DMO is stuck promoting only the marquee attractions, skip them and go to the state level. 17:38 – 18:32 A DMO locked into bread-and-butter promotion is usually in protection mode, worried about occupancy numbers. State tourism offices have embraced experience-driven programming and are more open to working with operators who tell a broader story. For most small tour businesses, the state governor's conference on tourism is where accessible DMO relationships start.Short-term rental hosts are closer to the guest than any DMO, and tour operators should be building direct relationships with them now. 24:31 – 26:00 Short-term rentals nationally overtook hotels in occupancy as of September 2025. Those hosts talk directly to guests about what to do in town. A recommendation from a local Airbnb host is warmer than any OTA listing and costs zero commission. Finding them is manual (social media DMs, local searches), but the payoff is a direct referral channel with no middleman.Stop chasing first-time visitors. Loyal, repeat visitors spend more, stay longer, and sustain the businesses that matter. 32:49 – 33:32 DMOs and operators both fixate on acquiring new customers while ignoring the people who already love the destination. Repeat visitors become patrons of smaller, niche experiences and local businesses. For multi-day operators especially, a returning guest who books a deeper or different tour is more profitable than constantly feeding the top of the funnel.Identity beats branding. Know who you are and say no to the rest. 38:44 – 41:27 Jenn draws a hard line between brand (what you market) and identity (who you actually are and who you serve). When you lead with identity, you market less because the right people find you. That means turning down some customers and product ideas, which is terrifying for newer operators, but it prevents the bland, generic positioning that makes you invisible on platforms like Viator and GetYourGuide.The "book direct" movement matters for tour operators just as much as it does for short-term rentals and hotels. 42:58 – 44:28 Hotels lost roughly 80% of their distribution to OTAs. Tours and activities sit around 40% OTA-controlled, which means there is still time to build direct channels. DMOs missed the OTA boat the first time and are caught in a relevancy crisis. That creates a shared interest: both of you need to reclaim the guest relationship before the platforms own it entirely.Guerrilla, person-to-person marketing is the only thing worth betting on in this environment. 34:16 – 35:03 Replace coffee sleeves at a local shop for a week with a message like "next time mama's in town, try this." That costs almost nothing and puts your name in front of a local audience in a real, physical moment. Operators burning money on flashy ad campaigns and agencies are losing to the ones doing the manual work of building one relationship at a time.Bring tour operators, short-term rental hosts, and local businesses into the same room. The collaboration that comes out of it is worth more than any campaign. 30:35 – 32:17 A 12-person Tourpreneur meetup in Dallas turned competitors into collaborators planning joint tours before they left the room. Those rooms should include short-term rental hosts, restaurants, coffee shops. Nobody is organizing these cross-sector local gatherings yet. That is the opportunity.Rethink the "travel presentation at the library" model. Gather local people around something that is not your tour. 53:23 – 54:46 Jenn pitches a revival of the house-party model for travel: 10 to 15 people, food, conversation, then introduce the experience. For multi-day operators, this replaces the stale slide deck. Book clubs are surging. House gatherings are surging. The sale happens because you built trust in a personal setting, not because you ran a Facebook ad.Quirky, unpolished video cuts through. But virality does not equal business success. 36:32 – 37:38 Behind-the-scenes, day-in-the-life content is what is actually getting traction on social right now. The less templated and less AI-generated it feels, the better it performs. Use that attention as a hook, then shift to collaborative content and real relationship-building that converts. A weird 30-second clip of your tour prep is worth more than a polished banner ad.The inbound tourism situation in the US is worse than most operators realize, and pretending otherwise is a losing strategy. 48:28 – 50:43 Canadian airlines are pulling US routes for summer 2026. Sixteen countries now have travel advisories against -
How do you scale a company without losing your soul or passion?
Mitch Bach talks this week with Paul Whitten, founder of Nashville Adventures, about how a former combat veteran, Peace Corps volunteer, UK Parliamentary Fellow, and Amazon project manager translated the learnings from his winding life path into a fast-growing tour company built at the intersection of passion, profitability, and public history.
Paul identified a “Paul-shaped hole” in Nashville’s bachelorette-heavy market by blending deep historical knowledge with an approachable, beer-in-hand delivery style. We discuss why he rejects over-scripted tours in favor of hiring obsessively passionate subject-matter nerds (bourbon, ghosts, coffee, Civil War) and giving them ownership; how early growth came from soft-launching, the power of relentless relationship-building with distilleries, chambers of commerce, concierges, and DMCs (and the power of simply responding to emails!). And why enthusiasm, not hacks or ad tricks, is the true differentiator.
The conversation dives into scaling without losing soul, balancing founder-led guiding with team development, leveraging community partnerships and veteran identity, experimenting with new formats like coffee crawls and XR-enhanced tours, and using books and potential city expansion as strategic next steps. We also tackle the harder edge of the job: the tour guide’s role as a public historian in polarized times, handling contentious Civil War and civil rights narratives responsibly, creating space for civil discourse on tour, and embracing risk, naivety, and “pirate” rule-breaking as essential traits for entrepreneurial success in the tours and activities industry.
Connect with Paul on LinkedInNashville Adventures Home PageSee Reality XR tours mentionedMore show notes and takeaways on tourpreneur.com
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This is an episode all about the hard stuff. Politics. Disagreement on tour. Tour sites where the truth itself is in debate. Confronting places with complicated, dark histories.
Most of the advice out there is: avoid this stuff at all costs. People just want to have fun, they're on vacation. Guides should stick to the script and make sure they don't say something that upsets the guests. I'm not here as a tour guide to shove my opinions down everyone's throats. Can't we all just get along? Can't we just keep the discourse civil?
Our guest this week, Mike Fishback, is a middle-school humanities educator and curriculum designer who thinks this instinct is exactly the problem. "Civil discourse" isn't about keeping things polite — it's about strategies for engaging with and managing disagreement and difficulty in learning situations, like a tour. Mike learned through experience that it's unwise to sit back, cross your fingers, and hope you don't upset a guest. That there are powerful ways to lean into difficult topics that make the whole experience more meaningful — intentionally creating dialogue through artful questioning and participatory techniques. And he has the educational frameworks and two decades of lived experience to back every word of it up.
Mike also happens to have spent years as a client of mine — I was the tour guide for his group of middle schoolers on trips to New York and DC, and I saw firsthand how he engaged his students with really meaty, difficult topics in a way that didn't shut them down but fired them up.
The lessons here aren't for kids. They're for everyone. And if you've ever told yourself that your job is just to deliver the facts and keep things light, this conversation might be the most useful hour you spend all week.
More takeaways and show notes on tourpreneur.com
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What if the most powerful segment in travel has been hiding in plain sight for decades?
Tourpreneur's Mitch Bach talks with Carolyn Ray, CEO of Journey Woman, about her transformation from corporate executive to full-time traveler and advocate for the 50+ woman traveler—a demographic that represents half the world's population yet remains largely invisible to the travel industry.
After a life-changing trip to Kenya at age 50, Carolyn sold everything and reinvented herself, eventually acquiring Journey Woman in 2019 and transforming it from a 1990s-era newsletter into a multifaceted platform that includes research, advocacy, a women's travel directory, and speakers bureau.
Through her groundbreaking "Invisible No More" research, Carolyn became the first to quantify this market segment, revealing that operators who only market destinations are "doing half the job" because 50+ women travelers are looking for purposeful, intentional experiences beyond simple safety assurances.
She challenges the industry's obsession paid media and influencer marketing, and urges women entrepreneurs to reject outdated rules, trust their intuition, and put themselves unapologetically in the spotlight—embodying her company's core value to "make your own rules."
The "Invisible No More" studyArticle mentioned: Is it safe to travel to the US right now?The new Women's Travel Directory
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This is a story of growth through creativity, experimentation, and using technology to stay lean.
Carlo Pandian (LinkedIn) is the founder of Slow Travel Italia. Four years ago he started with a single wine tasting in Verona, and today runs 160 experiences across 12 Italian cities, serving 15,000 guests a year with a very small team.
In this episode, he talks to TP host Mitch Bach about exactly how he did it: experimenting with neglected time slots (like 6pm) that competitors ignore, launching five tours at once instead of one to multiply his chances of finding a niche, using Airtable and automations to eliminate manual booking assignments and personalize communication at scale, and treating OTAs as a launchpad rather than a long-term home. Carlo shares how he identifies gaps in crowded markets by studying what's missing—not just in Italy but in places like Japan—and why he pulled out of Milan when the math didn't work. He explains his "requirements manifesto" for vetting partners, how he coaches food producers on storytelling for international audiences, and why the biggest trend he's seeing is travelers willing to spend half a day outside the city for a single product done deeply—visiting the olive grove, watching mozzarella pulled from boiling water, understanding one thing fully rather than tasting nine things superficially.
As always, more info and takeaways on tourpreneur.com.
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In this episode Mitch Bach sits down with Marinel de Jesus, a former human rights lawyer turned tour operator.
She is filled with questions about the adventure tour industry:
Why do porters on the famous, touristy Inca Trail in Peru carry crushing loads for little pay and even less dignity? Why is it so difficult to find women adventure guides in so many parts of the world? What do indigenous communities actually want from tourism—and why doesn't anyone bother to ask them?
These are just some of the uncomfortable questions and themes she's carried with her as she's lived and trekked around the world. Originally from the Philippines, she became a human rights lawyer in Washington D.C., spending 15 years prosecuting child protection and mental health cases. Then her mother passed away—and she never went back to the office. But Marinel didn't just start a tour company. She moved into indigenous communities. She lived with Quechua porters in Peru and learned the dark truths behind the picture-perfect Inca Trail. She spent nearly 300 days in Mongolia during Covid, co-creating a nomad camp that started with tea and a blank piece of paper—not a business plan. She walked 100 days across Nepal with Mingmar, a female guide she searched for over a year and a half to find, proving that women belong on the Great Himalaya Trail.
This discussion challenges everything we assume about adventure tourism—the colonial narratives baked into our itineraries, the voices we never hear, the scripts we impose on communities who know how to welcome guests far better than we do. She makes the case for showing up with no agenda, listening before designing, and building something that matters more than scale.
Marinel's organizations:
Equity Global Treks (Brown Gal Trekker)The Porter Voice CollectiveHer vision for Himalayan Women Trail LeadersHer film KM82 on the Quechuan Porters of PeruThe Khusvegi English & Nomadic Culture Camp she helped start in MongoliaMore show notes and resources on tourpreneur.com
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This short episode was recorded live at GetYourGuide's Unlocked conference in September 2025.
When you meet Arturo Ardao Rivera, the first thing you feel is his energy. He doesn't come off as an engineer, which was his profession until he discovered a joy for tour guiding and running a tour business. Originally from Madrid, Arturo found his true passion when he created Rainbow Tours Stockholm. It has grown from a solo operation to employing 26 guides.
His story is one of rejecting some of his engineering tendencies (choosing feelings over numbers!) and leaning into strategies that appear unorthodox but have worked well for him.
You'll discover:
His unique "taxi tariff" model for private tours, and his approach to hyper-personalization.Why he doesn't ask for reviewsWhy he's not sold on the "get more bookings" industry mantra Why he visits guides he's thinking of hiring in their comfort zone, not hisHow guide applicants are asked to become undercover tour takersHow he leverages running two separate brands for pricing strategyHow he grow leveraging 10+ OTA partners, and how he's managing his distribution mixConnect with Arturo on LinkedIn, and visit Rainbow Tours Stockholm!
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It's 2026... welcome to a new year of Tourpreneur weekly travel business podcasts!
And we're starting the year off in a slightly different vein.
This episode is a must-listen to help you set a new and hopefully inspirational, deeper tone for your year ahead as a business owner or guide.
Our opening guest is the inimitable Dr. Anu Taranath, a professor, author, and facilitator. She's truly one of a kind. She gave the opening keynote at last year's Tourpreneur conference, and blew everyone away.
So Tourpreneur's Mitch Bach was excited to sit down with Anu to challenge Tourpreneurs to think new thoughts about what they're doing as business owners. Yes, our job is to bring joy and entertainment and storytelling to our guests. Yes, our job as business owners is to show up for the daily grind of practical, nuts and bolts business. That's the spine of many of our lives out there.
This episode will ask you to go deeper.
If you rest on only the level of entertainment, and 'customer service' and professionalism, you're missing an opportunity for greater meaning, both in your business and your guests' lives.
Anu asks you to think of your role as creating not only staged performances, but also spaces and containers to "rehumanize humans" and "normalize the normal"—that is, the kinds of human questions about culture and difference that are normal reactions to a travel experience that stretches people.
It's an invitation to take off the armor — yours and your guests, and create something more meaningful together, something deeply human.
As always, more show notes and links on tourpreneur.com.
Dr. Anu's WebsiteConnect with Anu on LinkedInAnu's InstagramAnu's book, Beyond Guilt Trips
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Pete Syme interviews Andrea Lamparini from WeRoad, a hybrid tech company and tour operator that's rewriting the rules of group travel for millennials and Gen Z. The conversation reveals how WeRoad has achieved exceptional growth by building a community-first model where strangers become friends through small group experiences, using travel coordinators instead of traditional guides, operating as a curated marketplace where top coordinators design their own trips, and leveraging technology to scale operations with one-third of their 200-person team dedicated to tech. Andrea shares how they maintain quality with 4,000+ casual travel coordinators who each lead just one trip per year, why they leave 30-40% of each itinerary unstructured for group decision-making, how their supply model works across 68-70 DMCs globally, and why they're expanding into B2B channels including travel agencies, employee benefit programs, and corporate partnerships that already represent 17-18% of revenue. The discussion covers their VC backing (rare for a tour operator), plans for US expansion in 2026, the power of their We Meet app hosting 50,000 community members at events this year, and Andrea's key lesson learned: curating their marketplace offering earlier would have prevented the conversion drop caused by overwhelming choice.
Top Ten Takeaways
1. Travel Coordinators Work Alongside Local Guides
WeRoad uses travel coordinators who are the same age as travelers, depart from the same home country, and focus on facilitating group dynamics rather than delivering local expertise. Local guides are still included for museums, parks, and other sites where specialized knowledge is needed. Travel coordinators create WhatsApp groups one month before departure, balance introverted and extroverted personalities, and coordinate the 30-40% of unstructured time built into every itinerary. WeRoad has 4,000+ coordinators working casual contracts with a commitment of just one trip per year.
2. Quality at Scale Without Full-Time Staff
Coordinators go through online applications, webinars, group interviews, and a final boot camp weekend with 100 candidates. Most visit destinations for the first time, but rigorous hiring and training ensure consistency. Local DMC partners provide backup if logistics fail. Top performers can become "producers" who design and scout their own trips.
3. Groups Decide 30-40% of Their Itinerary in Real Time
Accommodations, transport, and core experiences are fixed, but dinners, half-days, and optional activities are decided by the group during the trip based on their interests and budget. Travel coordinators provide options and handle bookings with local partners, personalizing the experience to match group energy.
4. A Curated Marketplace Scales the Portfolio 5x
WeRoad's internal team creates 200 itineraries while travel producers create 1,000+ more. This model scaled their catalog 5x without adding internal headcount. All producers use standardized supply agreements ensuring every DMC meets centralized requirements for safety, insurance, compliance, and capacity.
5. Supply Quality Is Non-Negotiable
WeRoad works with 68-70 DMCs globally, visits partner sites, and monitors quality constantly. The rule is simple: mess up once or twice and you're out. Because each group makes different choices during unstructured time, suppliers must be flexible enough to support varied activities in every destination.
6. Community Extends Beyond Travel Through We Meet
The We Meet app hosts 10,000+ events across Europe where 50,000 people connected this year. Travel coordinators organize pottery classes, running groups, hiking, pub quizzes, and weekend trips in their home cities. This keeps travelers engaged between their one or two annual trips and drives repeat bookings.
7. One-Third of Staff Are Tech People
WeRoad built their entire platform internally: booking websites, supply platforms for internal operators and external producers, and the We Meet app. They use AI for customer service, machine learning for demand forecasting that gives suppliers 12-month projections, and sentiment analysis to understand feedback at scale.
8. Growth Comes From Digital, Community, and B2B Channels
WeRoad started with digital acquisition through social media and paid channels, building massive accounts that visualize the beauty of trips and community. They recently launched a global partnership program targeting travel agencies, employee benefit platforms, corporate retreats, and associations. This B2B channel already represents 17-18% of total volume.
9. VCs Invest in Tour Operators That Look Like Tech Platforms
WeRoad is unusually VC-backed for a tour operator because investors see them as a tech platform sustaining a brand mission. Strong unit economics in mature markets mean they can self-finance growth, but external investment accelerates new market expansion. The focus remains on sustainable growth, not burning money short-term.
10. Overwhelming Choice Kills Conversion
Andrea's biggest lesson: curate your marketplace offering early. When WeRoad first opened to travel producers, the abundance of trips—including duplicates—confused customers and decreased conversion. They now prioritize how offerings are visualized and presented, not just experience quality. US expansion is planned for 2026 after strengthening European markets, followed by Asia and Middle East. Japan is currently their most popular destination.
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Christy Hunter started Photo Walk Nashville seven years ago after discovering Airbnb Experiences, combining her photography skills with local knowledge to create tours that capture memories for travelers. What began as open photo shoots quickly evolved as she learned to segment products for different customer types—bachelorette parties, couples, solo travelers, dog owners, and corporate groups.
The conversation covers her product development journey, including early mistakes like mixing incompatible customer types and learning when to say no. Christy emphasizes the importance of local partnerships, sharing examples like teaming up with cosmetic brand Winky Lux for a home base and an apartment complex for rooftop access.
On marketing, Christy shares her successful TikTok strategy: having team member Gina speak directly to camera as if she were a past guest ("You have to do this one thing in Nashville..."), which drove multiple viral videos and direct bookings. She also discusses influencer marketing from both sides—as a tour operator and as an influencer herself—stressing the importance of clear communication, doing research on engagement rates, and not asking for specific deliverables.
Christy expanded to Charleston this year when a team member relocated, keeping the same operational model rather than franchising. She's also building Go To Nashville, an OTA reselling partner experiences through Tour Base's affiliate system. Looking ahead, she's focused on increasing capacity utilization rather than geographic expansion, and launching a consulting business to help other photographers and retailers enter the tourism space.
Top 10 TakeawaysShe learned to segment products by customer type after mixing incompatible groups. Couples from Ohio and bachelorette parties on the same tour didn't work. She created separate experiences for bachelorette parties, dog owners, proposals, and corporate groups. She also had to add rules like no showing up intoxicated.Local partnerships solved operational problems. She partnered with Winky Lux cosmetics to use their store as a tour base. She partnered with an apartment complex to do one event per month in exchange for building access, free parking, gym, pool, and exclusive rooftop access for a champagne add-on.She met business partner Gina through Airbnb host meetups. Gina developed scheduling systems for Photo Walk and now leads their TikTok strategy. They found a part-time scheduling manager who is also one of their hosts to keep operations in the family.Styled shoots solve the content creation problem. Designate one day per quarter or year, hire models (friends and family work), hire a photographer, and simulate the tour experience. Creating content during real tours is too difficult.Their TikTok strategy: Gina speaks as if she's a past guest. She says "you have to do this one thing in Nashville" direct to camera. They had multiple viral videos and saw direct booking surges. They repeat the same hook for different demographics. TikTok shows it to different audiences each time.Influencer marketing is about clear communication and research. Look at engagement rates, not follower counts. Check if they have real followers by looking at views relative to follower count. Don't ask for specific deliverables. Show them a good time and they'll naturally post. Get expectations in writing.She hires photographers who are connectors and storytellers first. Technical skill matters, but being a people person is more important. She uses live view mode to avoid putting the camera between her and the guest. She tells guests upfront she has posing ideas so they relax.She tracks booking sources through Peak's intake form. She asks "how did you hear about us?" Her biggest sources are Google, Facebook groups (Nashville visitors pages), and TikTok.Her growth strategy is "fill the bus" not geographic expansion. Rather than opening in five cities in five years, she wants to get four or five people on tours that currently have two. Same time and overhead, better revenue. She still wants to be out leading tours, not behind a computer.Charleston expansion happened organically when a Nashville team member relocated. They kept the same operational model rather than franchising. She handles scheduling and marketing centrally. Charleston is 40 minutes by plane, so she can support when needed.
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Ryan Connolly went from finance analyst to glacier guide to co-founder of Hidden Iceland. In this episode, he shares the numbers behind their most pivotal business decision: cutting small group tours that represented 50% of their departures but only 10% of revenue.
That shift to exclusively premium and luxury private tours helped the company grow by 5% while improving quality and profitability. Ryan explains how relationship marketing drives 70% of their bookings directly without OTAs, why they lead with education when working with travel advisors, and why PR outperforms paid advertising when selling luxury experiences.
Plus, the story of how a three-year journey across 40 countries led him to Iceland, where he met his wife on a glacier tour and built a business with two partners.
Top 10 Takeaways for Tour Operators1. Cut unprofitable segments ruthlessly
Small group tours accounted for 50% of Hidden Iceland's departures but only 10% of revenue. After eliminating that segment, they grew 5% by focusing resources on premium and luxury private tours where margins are higher.
2. Partner with competitors instead of viewing them as threats
When customers can't afford Hidden Iceland's luxury pricing, Ryan personally introduces them to partner companies that serve the budget segment. This maintains relationships and positions them as helpful experts rather than pushy salespeople.
3. PR drives better ROI than paid ads for high ticket sales
Over 450 articles in publications like Condé Nast, Forbes, and CNN have driven 70% direct bookings. For luxury trips ($20,000+), earned media builds trust better than Facebook or Google ads.
4. Lead with personal story in first customer contact
Ryan's initial email starts: "Hello, my name is Ryan. I'm originally Scottish. I've lived in Iceland since 2016. I originally trained as a glacier guide..." This builds immediate trust and differentiates from transactional competitors.
5. Educate travel advisors. Don't just sell to them
Hidden Iceland runs webinars teaching agents about Iceland's seasons, distances, and what each time of year offers. Not sales pitches. The education first approach builds meaningful advisor relationships that generate 30% of bookings.
6. Vet activity partners on safety and environmental standards
Before partnering with snowmobile companies, helicopter tours, or other providers, Hidden Iceland shares their own safety and environmental policies first, then asks partners to reciprocate. This creates collaboration, not just transactions.
7. Train guides to be themselves, not follow scripts
Instead of teaching guides what to say at each stop, Hidden Iceland tells them: "Be yourself in the most authentic way possible and create genuine connections." This leads to reviews that praise the guide more than the destination.
8. Choose conferences strategically. Avoid the herd
Ryan skips luxury travel conferences if more than 2 or 3 other Iceland companies will attend. Less competition means easier differentiation and more meaningful conversations with travel advisors.
9. Keep the sales process low tech and high touch
Despite having a CRM (LEMACS), Hidden Iceland puts key itinerary details in the body of emails and offers phone calls early. For luxury clients, human connection trumps slick automation.
10. Build the business with partners you trust implicitly
Ryan emphasizes: "Don't set up a company with anyone you don't trust inherently and that you believe will communicate effectively during the hardest times." Through pandemics and volcanic eruptions, Hidden Iceland's three owners have never shouted at each other because they chose partnership carefully.
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Kevin and Sylvia launched iRide Arusha in July 2024, offering motorcycle tours and rentals in Tanzania. Within 18 months they scaled across four East African cities through a franchise model called iRide Africa, with partners operating in Rwanda, Nairobi, and Mombasa. The franchise structure allows riders to cross borders and book multi-country tours.
The episode covers operational realities: importing equipment across borders, navigating tourism regulations, managing multi-country payment processing, and running rentals and guided tours as two distinct businesses with different customer profiles and sales cycles. Kevin and Sylvia share how they find customers through motorcycle clubs, price for premium buyers, and use immediate response times as a competitive advantage.
TOP 10 TAKEAWAYS
1. Test adjacent niches when your market is saturated
Rather than launch another safari company in an oversaturated market, Kevin and Sylvia identified motorcycle touring as an underserved adventure niche in East Africa. Consider what adjacent experiences your destination supports that competitors aren't offering.
2. Franchise models can scale faster than going solo
Within 18 months, iRide expanded across four East African cities through franchise partnerships. Partners share mechanics, bikes, marketing resources, and customer referrals. This creates a network effect where riders can start in one country and end in another, adding value no single operator could deliver alone.
3. Target communities, not just individuals
Kevin reaches out directly to motorcycle clubs in major US cities. One Chicago BMW Riders club is bringing eight people in February. Booking one club creates the revenue of eight individual customers with a fraction of the acquisition cost. Find the clubs, associations, or communities that match your experience type.
4. Customer service is a competitive advantage in developing markets
Their immediate response times and willingness to hop on Zoom calls builds trust fast, especially for customers who've never been to Africa.
5. Platform diversification requires testing, not guessing
iRide is on Get Your Guide, Viator, Klook, WeTravel, and fielding Facebook messages, but hasn't found the magic channel yet. Test widely, track what converts, double down there.
6. Price for the experience you're actually delivering, not your self-doubt
Kevin admits they severely underpriced at launch. Beginner business owners often can't see their own value clearly. If you're offering wow moments and authentic connections, charge accordingly.
7. Guided vs. rental requires different marketing and operations
Rental customers (experienced, self-sufficient, quick decision makers) need less hand-holding than guided tour customers (more questions, longer planning cycles, higher price points). These are functionally two different businesses with different messaging, pricing, and customer profiles.
8. Gross revenue and net income are very different
Vehicle maintenance, cross-border parts sourcing, and insurance eat into margins constantly. Build cash reserves and expect hidden costs, especially in asset-heavy businesses.
9. Local language fluency unlocks competitive advantages
Sylvia's Swahili fluency helped navigate Interpol holds on imported bikes, handle tourism police complaints from competitors, and build long-term supplier relationships. Language access isn't just customer-facing—it's operational power.
10. Differentiation isn't just what you do, it's how guests connect
Guests consistently cite the vastness of the landscape and local interactions (like lunch with Sylvia's 88-year-old farming grandmother) as their standout memories. Design for connection points your format uniquely enables.
- Visa fler
