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Hello, I’m Michael Liebreich, and this is Cleaning Up.
I hope you are having a good break over the holiday season, and getting to spend some quality time with your family. I’m in Switzerland, where it has just snowed about a meter in 24 hours.
In case you’re missing your regular dose of climate content, we’re starting something new, which we’re calling Cleaning Up Redux. During the break between seasons, we’ll be republishing some gems from our back catalogue, which now covers nearly 200 episodes.
To kick us off, today we’ll be listening back to episode 68, from Season 4, released in December 2021. It’s a conversation with Amory Lovins, whom I dubbed the Einstein of Energy Efficiency. Amory is the co-founder and former chairman and chief scientist of the Rocky Mountain Institute. He is also the author of more than 30 books and 700 papers, and now an Adjunct Lecturer in Atmosphere and Energy at Stanford University.
I first became familiar with Amory’s work even before I founded New Energy Finance journey, as a fierce promoter of the cause of energy efficiency by design, and equally fierce opponent of the idea of any role for nuclear power. Amory and I do not see eye to eye on everything, but we have become good friends and occasional sparring partners.
Amory joined me on Cleaning from his passive house high up in the Rocky Mountains, which is so warm despite not having any active heating that, at the time of recording, he had produced 78 crops of indoor bananas – a fact of which he is rightly proud.
The reason I chose this episode to kick off Cleaning Up Redux is that, in these very turbulent and politicised times, it has a refreshing back-to-basics feel. If you can save energy you save money, and that is always a good thing. If we all focused more on making clean energy cheaper for consumers and businesses, and a bit less on persuading politicians to do things that drive up energy costs, the transition might be moving a lot faster.
I hope you enjoy my December 2021 conversation with Amory Lovins.
Further reading:
IEA Energy Efficiency 2021 report: https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-efficiency-2021 Official bio: https://rmi.org/people/amory-lovins/ How Big Is the Energy Efficiency Resource? (a half-hour summary talk is at https://energy.stanford.edu/events/special-energy-seminar-amory-lovins-holmes-hummel) https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/aad965 Recalibrating Climate Prospects https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/ab55ab Can a Virus and Viral Ideas Speed the World’s Journey Beyond Fossil Fuels? (with Kingsmill Bond) https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/abc3f2 SAE: Reframing Automotive Fuel Efficiency https://doi.org/10.4271/13-01-01-0004 -
Are we losing the argument that climate change requires action and investment? Can we balance the need for affordable energy with the costs of decarbonizing hard-to-abate sectors like steel, cement and aviation? And how can we counter the spread of misinformation and populist narratives that undermine support for clean energy?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Lord Adair Turner for a deep dive into the state of the energy transition at the end of 2024. They discuss the remarkable progress in technologies like solar, batteries and electrification, but also the political and economic challenges of driving rapid decarbonisation. Turner shares his optimism that we have the technologies to reach net zero by 2070-2080, but also his concern that the pace of change may not be fast enough to avoid significant warming. They explore issues like the role of nuclear power, the need for grid investment, and the complexities of climate finance and international cooperation.
This episode grapples with the tension between technological progress and political realities - and how to navigate that divide to accelerate the transition to a sustainable, zero-carbon future as we move into the new year.
Leadership Circle
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links and more
Adair's book, Just CapitalThe Energy Transitions Commission: https://www.energy-transitions.orgHow China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun The Einstein of Energy Efficiency - Ep68: Amory LovinsThe Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future - Ep173: Jenny ChaseCan Exponential Growth Save a Finite Planet? - Ep187: Azeem Azhar The UK Energy Company Creating the Utility of the Future - Ep175: Greg Jackson The Bridgetown Initiator - Ep145: Prof Avinash PersaudHow To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall Is It Ever OK to Promote Fossil Fuels? TNO's Hydrogen Insights
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Climate philanthropies are playing an increasingly important role in funding climate action. In 2023, an estimated $9-16 billion was spent by philanthropies on programs to mitigate climate change. But how do they choose how to spend it? And what role should philanthropy play in catalysing innovation?
Bryony Worthington sits down with Greg de Temmerman, Deputy CEO of the Quadrature Climate Foundation, to explore these critical questions. As a former plasma physicist who worked on the world's largest nuclear fusion project before transitioning into philanthropy, Greg brings a unique perspective to the climate challenge.
Greg shares his insights on the progress and challenges in fusion research, highlighting the importance of material science breakthroughs and the role of AI in advancing the field. He then discusses his transition from research to the think tank world, where he sought to provide a more science-based approach to climate solutions and address the growing anti-tech sentiment in France.
The conversation delves into Quadrature's evidence-based, pragmatic approach to philanthropy, and Greg's views on the foundation's support for geoengineering research and carbon removal technologies. He emphasises the need to grapple with the complexities of the energy transition, including the social and political challenges of managing winners and losers, and explains why he thinks the climate fight is like ultra-running.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links:
Quadrature Climate FoundationKelly Wanser on Geoengineering Anand Gopal on Thermal Storage and Carbon Removal -
What was achieved at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan? Where will the promised $300 billion come from, and how will it be spent? And what reforms are needed to make the COP process more effective and impactful?
This week, host Michael Liebreich sits down with James Cameron, an international climate lawyer who has been involved with the COP process since before COPs were COPs. James shares his insights into the challenges and dynamics of these high-stakes global talks, from the crucial role of small island states to the difficulties of bridging the divide between developed and developing nations. James and Michael explore the inner workings of the COP process - its successes, failures and the urgent need for reform. James provides a clear-eyed assessment of where the negotiations have fallen short, and outlines concrete ideas for how to make the COP a more effective forum for driving real-world climate action.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links:
Ya Basta: Stop the UN Climate Charade - https://www.liebreich.com/214-2/ James' previous appearance on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7GKiW5E4k Christiana Figueres on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YSzUJ_nMV0 Catherine McKenna on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEP1SGL-DcA Amber Rudd on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZOokwqLaRc Laurence Tubiana on CU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpVmECce7R8 -
As we race towards a future powered by AI and data centres, how will the insatiable demand for energy impact the environment? With the richest companies ploughing billions into energy generation, might there be some unexpected upsides for the climate transition? And can exponential technologies address the climate crisis on a finite planet?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, to explore the complex relationship between exponential growth, climate change, and the societal implications of transformative technologies. Michael and Azeem delve into the promises and pitfalls of a future shaped by the rapid advancements in renewable energy, battery storage, and artificial intelligence.
Exponential View:
Listeners of Cleaning Up can receive one year of complimentary access to Exponential View Premium, visit: https://www.exponentialview.co/cleaningup. Offer valid for 7 days starting November 27, 2024.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links:
Azeem's websiteThe Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future | Ep173: Jenny Chase Battery Recycling Is Here - But Where Are The Batteries? - Ep165: Hans Eric Melin Separating Hype from Hydrogen – Part One: The Supply Side - Audioblog 3Separating Hype from Hydrogen – Part Two: The Demand Side - Audioblog 4Inside the World's Largest AI Supercluster xAI ColossusAI's $600bn problem -
How can behavioural science and psychology be leveraged to drive meaningful change around climate action? What unintended consequences might arise from heavy-handed government mandates versus more subtle interventions? And in the face of the climate crisis, is it ethical to actively promote the use of fossil fuels?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael welcomes Ogilvy UK Vice-chair Rory Sutherland to explore the role of psychology and behavioural science in tackling the climate challenge. Rather than relying solely on policy, regulations, and technological solutions, Sutherland argues that understanding human decision-making and tapping into our innate psychological drivers could be key to catalyzing widespread behaviour change.
From the power of "satisficing" and "psycho-physics" to the importance of signaling and subconscious hacking, Sutherland delves into the hidden forces that shape our environmental choices - both for better and for worse. The conversation also grapples with the ethical quandary of whether actively promoting fossil fuels is justifiable, even as a "messy intermediate phase" in the transition to clean energy. This episode challenges viewers to think beyond the conventional approaches to climate action and consider how a deeper understanding of human psychology could unlock more effective, and even counterintuitive, solutions.
For those interested in data on which advertising groups continue to work with fossil fuel companies, please see: https://cleancreatives.org/f-list. Asked about WPP (Ogilvy’s Parent Company) and Ogilvy’s inclusion on the F-list, WPP commented: "WPP and Ogilvy have not commented publicly on the accuracy or validity of the F-List’s research. However, several of the contracts named on the F-List are wrongly attributed to Ogilvy. They are in fact relationships with an entirely different agency, OGR, formerly known as Ogilvy Government Relations. Other than ownership by WPP, OGR has had no connection to Ogilvy since 2011 and they rebranded last year to avoid historical confusion."
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links:
Rory’s book, AlchemyOgilvy UK: https://www.ogilvy.com/ukHow Lily Cole Models Climate Solutions | Ep161 How To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall -
Is China's lead in clean technologies insurmountable? How will the Trump presidency shape relations with China? And when will China's emissions peak?
Fatih Birol, head of the International Energy Agency, has said that 'almost every energy story is essentially a China story. But it's a complicated story that has been powered by vast supplies of coal. China's economy has grown rapidly, with per capita levels of energy consumption now matching Europe's, making it the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gasses.
At the same time, China has increased the share of electricity and total energy to around 28% thanks to a rapid uptake of electric vehicles and increasing use of electricity for heating domestically. If it continues on its current trajectory, it is likely to peak its greenhouse gas emissions from energy in the next few years, if it hasn't done so already. China is also playing an increasing role beyond its borders: In 2023, 20% of the global EV export market belong to China, and it dominates the battery, solar and wind industries.
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Professor Qi Ye, Director of Public Policy at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, who's had a ringside seat during China's rapid shift towards a clean energy economy. Together they unpack the complex dynamics shaping the global energy transition in China. Discover the remarkable scale and pace of China's clean energy transformation, the challenges of international collaboration, and Professor Qi's vision for a new era of climate leadership.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.
Links:
How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma JunThe World's Preeminent Energy Economist - Ep133: Fatih BirolHow Trump & Musk Will Reshape US Climate Action — Election Special -
How will the Trump administration's policies impact the clean energy transition in the United States? What will be Elon Musk's role in shaping climate policy? And what are the geopolitical implications of the US withdrawing from the Paris Agreement?
In this special episode of Cleaning Up, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the implications of the recent US election results and the potential impact on energy and climate policy. They explore the likely policy changes under a Trump administration, including potential cuts to clean technologies like offshore wind and electric vehicles, as well as the potential for increased fossil fuel production and the relaxation of environmental regulations.
Bryony shares her insights from her recent trip to China, where the expectation was that Trump would win and the general sentiment was that China could do business with him. Michael examines the perceived lack of a coherent strategy in Europe to compete with the US and China in the clean energy and technology sectors.
Leadership Circle
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links and more
How To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall Could Trump 2.0 Roll Back The IRA? Ep181: Ethan Zindler -
Could we save billions by simply reducing energy waste? How can we power the vast, energy-hungry growth of AI without sacrificing climate goals? And is Europe doomed to high energy costs and deindustrialisation?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Jonathan Maxwell, CEO and founder of Sustainable Development Capital LLP (SDCL), for the third time on Cleaning Up. Jonathan shares his perspective on the urgent need to address energy efficiency and waste, drawing from the themes explored in his book "The Edge." Jonathan and Michael delve into SDCL's innovative approach to providing on-site energy solutions that deliver cheaper, cleaner, and more reliable power to businesses, industries, and public institutions.
Jonathan explains how their focus on distributed generation and decentralised energy systems is transforming the way organisations think about and manage their energy needs. Finally, policy. Jonathan and Michael discuss the impact of the Inflation Reduction Act in the US (and the potential turmoil from recent election results), the European Union's Green Deal, how these initiatives can be further strengthened by a greater emphasis on energy efficiency and productivity, and what the West needs to catch China.
Leadership Circle
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live
Links
Cheaper, Cleaner, More Reliable - Ep14: Jonathan Maxwell Checkpoint 2023: Energy Efficiency Investment - Ep113 Jonathan Maxwell How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma JunMetals Refining - From Mining to Brining: Ep 142 - Alex Grant
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How difficult is it to power a boat just with electricity? Is an electric outboard as reliable as a fossil-fuel one when taken out to sea? And just how much better is an electric engine for reducing pollution and noise?
Around the world there are tens of millions of small boats, from high-performance luxury craft to workhorse fishing vessels, nearly all of which run on fossil-fuel powered engines. But with the rapid advancements in electric vehicles, a small group of companies are now turning their minds to cracking the boating problem, inventing electric engines that are quieter, less polluting, and can deliver just the same performance.
In Europe, perhaps the best known is the German company Torqeedo. Founded in 2004, they've sold a quarter of a million electric motors to date, and this year, were acquired by Yamaha Motors. Norwegian company Evoy have recently joined forces with Vita, a UK-Monaco based company, and Candela, another Scandinavian boat builder, are revolutionising engines and boats with their hydrofoiling concept.
This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington speaks with Ben Sorkin, CEO and co-founder of Flux Marine, headquartered in Newport, Rhode Island. Flux Marine are hoping to take on the US market with their customizable electric propulsion systems and have a 40,000 square foot factory in Rhode Island. Bryony asks Ben how his electric engines compete on cost and performance, what Flux Marine’s scale-up plans are, and why it’s so much harder to electrify a boat than a car.
Leadership Circle
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
Links
Flux Marine: https://www.fluxmarine.com Is Shipping the Easiest "Hard-to-Abate" Sector? — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umPAonV20cM Arc Boats: https://arcboats.com Candela Hydrofoiling Boats: https://candela.com -
Is the shift to electric vehicles really slowing down? Are people losing interest in EVs, or is there more to the story? How will changes in the global automotive industry impact the net-zero transition? And If no one wants EVs, why do we need tariffs?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Colin McKerracher, Head of Clean Transport at BloombergNEF, to unpack the latest trends and dynamics in the electric vehicle market from cars to trucks to two wheelers. They dive deep into the regional differences, the strategies of European automakers, the impact of tariffs, as well as the latest forecasts and predictions in BloombergNEF's Electric Vehicle Outlook.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live
Links:
BloombergNEF's Electric Vehicle Outlook: https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/The Debunker-in-Chief - Ep15: Auke HoekstraThe Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future - Ep 173: Jenny ChaseSlowdown, what Slowdown? The EV Revolution is Just Getting Started - Ep178: Dr Andy PalmerCould Trump 2.0 Roll Back The IRA? Ep181: Ethan Zindler -
China has taken a commanding lead in manufacturing solar panels, wind turbines, electric vehicles and batteries, and is central to the green energy transition. Now, the US is hoping to catch up, and has spent almost $500 billion from the Inflation Reduction Act to bolster the energy transition and domestic manufacturing. Is it enough to create-long lasting change?
This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Ethan Zindler, the Climate Counselor to US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. Zindler provides a rare insider's perspective on the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act, the Treasury's new Climate Hub, and the department's evolving role in tackling the economic and financial implications of the climate crisis. The discussion covers the IRA's potential impact, the challenges of communicating its complex tax incentives, and concerns around the legislation's political durability.Zindler also addresses the tensions between fossil fuel interests and clean energy priorities, as well as the Treasury's efforts to engage with international partners and ensure an equitable clean energy transition. As the US grapples with the growing costs of climate-fueled disasters, this episode offers insights into how a key economic policymaking body is adapting to the climate emergency and the new geopolitics of the green energy transition.
Leadership Circle
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
Links
Overview of the Treasury's climate activities: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/climate-changeCleaning Up with Dr Ma Jun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu6giWzTxAYCleaning Up with Dipender Saluja & Ion Yadigaroglu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUTPkszXs\_Y -
Ocean's absorb one third of the CO2 we are recklessly pumping into the atmosphere, as well as 90% of the heat. What would happen if that were to stop?
The oceans define every aspect of our planet's physical systems, its ecosystems, human history and human culture. They also define the planet's future. Oceans represent an almost unexplored frontier in the fight against climate change, whether as a host for offshore wind farms, an enhanced carbon sink, a source for critical minerals or a route for high-voltage DC cables. But could there be unintended consequences?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes Dr Helen Czerski, whose expertise is 25,000 miles wide and seven miles deep, to discuss the crucial role the oceans play in regulating our climate and keeping the planet habitable. Helen is a physicist and oceanographer, and associate professor in the Department of Mechanical Engineering at University College London. She is the author of two books: 'A Storm in a Teacup' and 'The Blue Machine', about the physics of the oceans.
Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
Links and more:
Helen's website: https://www.helenczerski.netHelen's book, Blue Machine: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/441190/blue-machine-by-czerski-helen/9781804991961Episode 107 of Cleaning Up with David Cebon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K61ZXd_F6Qo -
Is the key to clean energy the heat beneath our feet? Could advances in the fossil-fuel extraction industry hold the key to providing 24/7 clean power? And can a Texan CEO and former oil exec bring geothermal to the masses?
This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Cindy Taff, a 35-year veteran of Shell, where she was Vice President of Unconventional Drilling, leading a team of 350 people with a budget of over $1 billion. Since leaving Shell, Cindy has made a bold pivot to the world of geothermal energy, and is now CEO of Sage Geosystems, where she is using her expertise in drilling, project management, and subsurface engineering to try to crack next generation geothermal energy.
Cindy shares her journey, from rising through the ranks at Shell to leading a startup on the cutting edge of the energy transition. She delves into the technical challenges of tapping into "hot, dry rock" geothermal resources, drilling at 20,000 feet below the Earth's surface, the regulatory hurdles of using techniques like fracking or 'stim drilling', and the potential to to use geothermal wells as an energy storage solution.
Cindy has a unique perspective on how the oil and gas industry's toolbox can be repurposed to drive the clean energy transition, and believes geothermal is poised to play a crucial role in powering a sustainable future. Will she be proved right?
Leadership Circle
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
Links and more
Sage Geosystems - https://www.sagegeosystems.comSage Geosystems and Meta sign 150MW geothermal power agreement - https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/geothermal/sage-geosystems-and-meta-sign-150mw-geothermal-power-agreementSage Geosystems raises $17M to build first-of-its-kind geothermal energy storage system in Texas: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/sage-geosystems-geothermal-storage-fervo-princeton/707879/Ep 168 Hot Rocks in a Box: The Rise of Thermal Batteries - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QiMC4nG1k -
What will it take for electric vehicles to truly dominate the transportation landscape? Can traditional automakers adapt quickly enough to the EV revolution, or will new players seize the opportunity? And how close are we to the holy grail of fully autonomous driving?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Dr. Andy Palmer, a pioneer in the electric vehicle industry. With over 45 years of experience in the automotive sector, Andy has witnessed the industry's transformation firsthand - from his early days as an apprentice to senior leadership roles at companies like Nissan and Aston Martin.
Andy shares the fascinating story behind the development of the Nissan Leaf, the world's first mass-market EV. He delves into the challenges of bringing this groundbreaking vehicle to market and how it kickstarted his journey from "piston head" to "battery head." We also explore Andy's time at Aston Martin, where he tried to steer the iconic British brand towards an electric future. Andy provides keen insights into the rapid evolution of battery technology, the role of government policy, and the future of autonomous driving.
Leadership Circle:
We are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
Links and more:
Andy's website: https://www.drandypalmer.comMichael's writeup on AstonGate - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/astongate-fake-emission-figures-embattled-carmaker-sock-liebreich/The need for plurality - Andy Palmer's response to Rowan Atkinson: https://www.drandypalmer.com/post/the-need-for-plurality-in-response-to-rowan-atkinsonEpisode 175 with Greg Jackson of Octopus Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl-cRh35Hm4 -
As climate impacts mount, pressure is building on policymakers to find ways to alleviate the crisis. One controversial option being explored is geoengineering - direct human interventions to cool the planet. But can we safely and effectively implement these large-scale climate remedies?
Bryony Worthington sits down with Kelly Wanser, Executive Director of the nonprofit SilverLining, which conducted early-stage experiments to improve the reflectivity of clouds in an experiment earlier this year. They discuss the different climate interventions being researched, the scientific and political challenges, and the critical need for robust evidence and governance to navigate these uncharted waters. From cloud brightening experiments to stratospheric aerosol injection, this conversation explores the potential upsides and major risks involved in intervening in the Earth's climate system.
Leadership Circle:
We are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
SilverLining Website: https://www.silverlining.ngoNYTimes article on SilverLining's experiment: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/climate/global-warming-clouds-solar-geoengineering.htmlEpisode 168 with Anand Gopal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33QiMC4nG1k&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE
Links and more: -
Germany is one of the most bullish countries in the world on clean/green hydrogen. The home of the Energiewende is not just one of the most committed countries in the world to reaching net zero, it is of course a highly industrialised nation with a very energy-intensive economy. As if that were not enough, it had one third of its energy supply yanked out from under it as a result of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine.
Green hydrogen has become one of the mainstays of efforts to keep the lights on as the country replaces nuclear and coal power with wind and solar, and also of efforts to replace cheap Russian gas in power generation and industry. But can green hydrogen possibly live up to expectations?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by someone who works at the heart of Germany’s hydrogen policy-making machine: Eva Schmid is Director of Hydrogen and Synthetic Energy Carriers at DENA, the German Energy Agency, a think tank that works with the German government to deliver its energy strategy. As you’ll see she has a clear-eyed sense of what hydrogen can and can’t be expected to do, and a focus on using it to protect the resilience of the German economy.
Leadership Circle
We are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
Links & more:
DENA, The German Energy Agency: https://www.dena.de/en/home/Germany's National Hydrogen Strategy, 2023: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/EN/Publikationen/Energie/national-hydrogen-strategy-update.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2Hydrogen Import Strategy: https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/EN/Hydrogen/Downloads/importstrategy-hydrogen.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=1The EU Hydrogen Strategy: https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/energy-systems-integration/hydrogen/key-actions-eu-hydrogen-strategy_enEuropean Court of Auditors hydrogen report: https://www.eca.europa.eu/ECAPublications/SR-2024-11/SR-2024-11_EN.pdfEU Commissions response to Auditors report: https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECAReplies/COM-Replies-SR-2024-11/COM-Replies-SR-2024-11_EN.pdf -
How does a startup become the largest provider of electricity in the UK in less than a decade? What is locational pricing and how could it encourage more renewables? And is it possible to achieve a zero-carbon electricity system by 2030?
Welcome to the first episode of Season 13 of Cleaning Up, in which Michael Liebreich sits down with Greg Jackson, the founder and CEO of Octopus Energy, to uncover the incredible story behind the company's rapid growth and its transformation into a global energy powerhouse.
Greg and Michael explore how Octopus Energy has gone from a small startup to the largest energy supplier in the UK, directly serving over 7 million households, and with a presence in 8 of the top 10 competitive energy markets worldwide. Greg reveals the key drivers behind Octopus Energy's success, including the innovative Kraken platform that powers their operations, the strategic acquisitions that fuelled their expansion, and the company's unwavering focus on customer-centric solutions during the recent energy crisis.
The story doesn't end there. Greg shares his ambitious vision for the future, whether or not its possible to reach 1 billion Kraken licenses by 2030 and the company's groundbreaking work in areas like locational pricing, electric vehicle integration, and the electrification of home heating.
Leadership Circle
We are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live
Links & More
Episode 32: Building the Billion-Customer Energy Company — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9kHNMyH7bwEpisode 154: Green Heat (and Cooling) Under our Feet — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpHa-uU6lcMichael at the Imperial College Energy Futures Lab, and the subsequent panel discussion with Greg Jackson — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Q9cuF8zKgOctopus Energy customers provide 108MW of grid flexibility in first ‘Saving Session’ — https://octopus.energy/press/believe-it-or-watt-octopus-energy-customers-provide-108mw-of-grid-flexibility-in-first-saving-session-equivalent-of-a-gas-power-station/ -
In the final episode of Season 12, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the key conversations and developments in the net-zero transition over the past three months, including:
China's leadership in green finance and the role of air quality issues in driving climate actionThe rapid growth of the solar industry and its potential to meet global electricity demandThe progress and challenges around electric vehicles, battery recycling, and the need for a holistic approach to energy storageThe potential of thermal batteries for storing excess renewable energyThe debates around engineering solutions like direct air capture and synthetic proteinsThe politics of climate change, the UK election results, the EU's hydrogen plans, and what might happen in the USThe intersection of fashion, sustainability, and climate changeWe'll be back for Season 13 of Cleaning Up at the beginning of September. Thanks so much for listening, and see you then! In the meantime, please share this podcast with a friend, colleague, family, or whoever you think might enjoy it.
Links and more:
Listen to and watch every episode of season 12: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe8ZTD7dMaaAHKRt7GpWNkrhhrXv2-KoR Jim Mellon of Agronomics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqFPic5iqds Jonathan Maxwell of Sustainable Development Capital: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OTbyOxYUpgLauri Myllyvirta, co-founder and lead analyst at CREA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjvCeR9VLg -
The solar industry has experienced a meteoric rise over the past two decades, growing from a small cottage industry to one of the leading technologies in the energy transition. It’s not been a smooth ride, and there’ve been plenty of bankruptcies on the way, from Solyndra to Suntech, but more than half a terawatt of new solar is now being built each year and the industry is still growing rapidly. So how did we get here, and how far do we have to go?
Michael Liebreich is joined by BloombergNEF lead solar analyst Jenny Chase to chart the course of the solar industry, do a little mythbusting, and ask what next for this multibillion dollar industry. Is China’s dominance of solar a problem? Is solar still too expensive for developing countries? And when will we get free electricity?
Links:
Jenny’s Book - Solar Power Finance Without the JargonThe Usain Bolt of Solar Power - Ep130: Paddy Padmanathan650 Leagues of HVDC Under the Sea - Ep92: Simon MorrishAuke Hoekstra’s IEA underestimates chart - Visa fler
