Avsnitt

  • Kunal Shah is one of the most well-known and admired product leaders in India. He is the CEO and founder of CRED, an Indian-based fintech startup valued at over $6 billion. Prior to CRED, he founded three other startups, including Freecharge, which he sold for over $400 million to Snapdeal. He has also been an advisor to India’s most influential organizations. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • The prevalence of successful Indian immigrants in top CEO roles across the tech industry

    • Why companies in India can grow DAUs but not ARPU—and what that means for building products for India

    • What most sets India’s market apart

    • Challenges and opportunities in the Indian market

    • The Delta 4 framework for building new products

    • Lessons from building CRED so far

    • The power of curiosity and second-order thinking

    • Lessons from failure

    Brought to you by:

    • WorkOS—The modern API for auth and user identity

    • Orb—The flexible billing engine for modern pricing

    • Dovetail—Bring your customer into every decision

    Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kunal-shah-on-winning-in-india-second

    Where to find Kunal Shah:

    • X: https://twitter.com/kunalb11

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kunalshah1/

    • Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@CRED_club

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Kunal’s background

    (04:22) The Delta 4 framework

    (11:00) The success of Indian CEOs in the U.S.

    (19:55) Challenges and opportunities in India

    (23:04) DAUs vs. ARPU in Indian markets

    (25:50) The perception of time in India

    (27:55) The curse of focus in Asian markets

    (30:33) Challenges and opportunities in India (continued)

    (33:23) Lessons learned from building CRED

    (36:40) Profit pools can provide valuable insights into the values of a country

    (37:55) Founders’ role in company growth

    (39:55) Profitability and Indian business culture

    (43:24) Advice for staying positive amid criticism

    (44:41) The promising market in India

    (47:35) The power of curiosity

    (52:59) Who Kunal looks up to

    (55:31) Kunal’s favorite sources of content

    (58:42) Asking great questions

    (01:02:54) Contrarian corner: Wealth is nothing but storage of energy

    (01:05:26) Failure corner

    (01:08:57) Closing thoughts: Share your learnings

    (01:09:38) Lightning round

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Emilie Gerber is the founder and CEO of Six Eastern, a top PR agency that’s worked with over 100 tech companies, from stealth startups to publicly traded companies. Before starting her own firm, she worked at Uber, where she led PR for the business development team and B2B programs. Prior to that, she worked at Box on product communications, with a focus on product launches and partnership announcements. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Why, and when, getting press is worth your time

    • Common misconceptions about the impact press can have

    • The second-order effects of press

    • Which areas each publication (TechCrunch, Axios, The Verge, etc.) cares most about

    • How to craft your pitch

    • How to find and reach reporters

    • How pitching press is different from pitching customers

    • The effectiveness of direct communication through social media versus traditional press

    Brought to you by:

    • Sprig—Build a product people love

    • Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-pr-emilie-gerber

    Where to find Emilie Gerber:

    • Substack: http://onbackgroundintel.substack.com

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilie-gerber-59612230/

    • Website: https://sixeastern.com/

    • Email: [email protected]

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Emilie’s background

    (04:56) The value of press and second-order effects

    (13:00) When press is not worth your time

    (17:01) Different publications and their suitability

    (25:36) Avoiding negative stories

    (27:23) Finding aligned podcasts and awards

    (31:12) Advice for reaching out to reporters

    (37:23) Controversial pitches

    (41:16) Avoiding category creation

    (43:26) Examples of pitches that have worked well

    (53:32) Pitching to Lenny

    (55:46) Effective pitching strategies

    (57:45) Improving pitch announcements

    (01:03:01) Press releases

    (01:07:06) Crafting a compelling story

    (01:09:43) Traditional press vs. newsletters, podcasts, and social media

    (01:15:50) Building a social media presence

    (01:17:51) How to get a Morning Brew feature

    (01:19:32) Advice on choosing a PR agency

    (01:22:25) Timing and budget for PR

    (01:25:39) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/

    • Who is Lenny Rachitsky? And what does he know that you don’t about making millions writing online?: https://www.fastcompany.com/90940453/lenny-rachitsky-newsletter-podcast-job-board-substack

    • 42-year-old brings in an average of $41,000 a month from his podcast and works on it just 5 hours a week: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/11/lenny-rachitsky-podcast-brings-in-more-than-500k-a-year-heres-how.html

    • How This Newsletter Writer Got More Than 300,000 Subscribers, and Now Makes “Significantly More” Than He Did at His Day Job: https://www.entrepreneur.com/starting-a-business/how-this-newsletter-writer-got-more-than-300000/447172

    • Business Insider: https://www.businessinsider.com/

    • Contraline: https://www.contraline.com/

    • Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/

    • TechCrunch: https://techcrunch.com/

    • Axios: https://www.axios.com/

    • Fortune: https://fortune.com/

    • Term Sheet: https://fortune.com/tag/term-sheet/

    • The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/

    • Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/

    • New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/

    • Found podcast: https://techcrunch.com/tag/found/

    • Equity podcast: https://techcrunch.com/tag/equity-podcast/

    • VentureBeat: https://venturebeat.com/

    • Fast Company: https://www.fastcompany.com/

    • Clockwise: https://www.getclockwise.com

    • Shopify deleted 322,000 hours of meetings. Should the rest of us be jealous?: https://www.npr.org/2023/02/15/1156804295/shopify-delete-meetings-zoom-virtual-productivity

    • Shopify canceled all recurring meetings. Should you too?: https://www.getclockwise.com/blog/shopify-cancels-meetings

    • Shopify’s new meeting cost calculator is well intentioned—but it’s not addressing the issue: https://www.fastcompany.com/90930137/shopifys-new-meeting-cost-calculator-is-well-intentioned-but-its-not-addressing-the-issue

    • Matt Martin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/voxmatt/

    • Ramp: https://ramp.com/welcome

    • Corporate card start-up Ramp targets Bill.com with free payments software: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/26/corporate-cards-ramp-targets-billcom-with-free-payments-software.html

    • Bill: https://www.bill.com/

    • Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp-became-the-fastest-growing-saas-startup-of-all-time-geoff-charl/

    • Column Tax: https://www.columntax.com/

    • Propel: https://www.joinpropel.com/

    • Gamma: https://gamma.app/

    • Gamma brings in $7M to bring the slide deck into the 21st century: https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/28/gamma-brings-in-7m-to-bring-the-slide-deck-into-the-21st-century/

    • NewBank: https://www.newbankusa.com/

    • Backed by a16z, Relay races to market with Zapier in its crosshairs: https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/11/relay-a16z-zapier-google/

    • Zapier: https://zapier.com/

    • Rajiv Ayyangar’s thread on X about tag lines: https://twitter.com/rajivayyangar/status/1758179077629100482

    • Entropy: https://entropytechnologydesign.com/

    • Money 20/20: https://www.money2020.com/

    • Jim Bankoff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimbankoff/

    • Ramping Up: https://www.notboring.co/p/ramping-up

    • Aaron Levie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/boxaaron/

    • Aaron Levie on X: https://twitter.com/levie

    • Duolingo on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@duolingo

    • Morning Brew: https://www.morningbrew.com/

    • Tech Brew: https://www.emergingtechbrew.com/

    • HR Brew: https://www.hr-brew.com/

    • Mark Zuckerberg on Morning Brew Daily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQqsvRHjas4&t=1309s

    • How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence: https://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-Mind-Consciousness-Transcendence/dp/1594204225

    • The Walking Dead on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/70177057

    • Yellowjackets on Paramount+: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/yellowjackets/

    • The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

    • Apple Vision Pro: https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro

    • TNB Tech Minute: Startup Perplexity Challenges Google With AI Search: https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/tech-news-briefing/tnb-tech-minute-startup-perplexity-challenges-google-with-ai-search/984362d5-a8f0-48b4-8b55-ad7e570a74d2

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Noam Lovinsky has had a distinguished career in product, leaving an indelible mark at Facebook, YouTube, Thumbtack, and currently as the chief product officer at Grammarly. At Facebook, Noam helped establish the New Product Experimentation team; at Thumbtack, he was chief product officer; and at YouTube, he was one of the early product leaders overseeing the consumer experience. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Challenges and lessons from reviving growth at YouTube and Thumbtack

    • Lessons from building Facebook’s New Product Experimentation team

    • Insights into Grammarly’s success

    • Knowing when it’s time to kill your project

    • Why diversifying your growth channels is critical

    • The power of visioning and storytelling in shaping product strategy

    • How to create space for innovation at large companies

    • The resilience and motivation of Grammarly’s team in Ukraine

    Brought to you by:

    • Whimsical—The iterative product workspace

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    • LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-happiness-and-pain-of-product-management-noam-lovinsky-grammarly-facebook-youtube-thumbtac/

    Where to find Noam Lovinsky:

    • X: https://twitter.com/noaml

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noaml/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Noam’s background

    (04:18) Noam’s lack of online presence

    (08:06) Lessons from YouTube: advocating for what’s best for yourself and the team

    (14:31) Prioritizing what’s best for the business

    (19:37) Knowing when it’s time to kill a project

    (21:47) Lessons from Thumbtack: diversifying growth channels and overcoming challenges

    (26:24) How Thumbtack turned growth around

    (31:44) Building Airbnb’s instant booking feature

    (35:28) Lessons from Thumbtack: team collaboration and product strategy

    (38:38) Lessons from Facebook: building the New Product Experimentation team

    (40:43) The importance of starting small and building community density

    (46:07) Advice for building a startup within a startup

    (48:52) Having an incentive system

    (49:34) Lessons from Grammarly: adapting to changing user needs and building for the masses

    (54:20) The scrappiness and profitability of Grammarly

    (56:56) The resilience and motivation of the Grammarly team in Ukraine

    (59:08) General career advice

    (01:01:02) When to pull back

    (01:02:58) Closing thoughts

    (01:03:56) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Substack: https://substack.com/

    • Hunter Walk on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hunterwalk/

    • The rituals of great teams | Shishir Mehrotra of Coda, YouTube, Microsoft: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-coda-youtube-microsoft/

    • Salar Kamangar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salar-kamangar-5a059712/

    • Grammarly: https://www.grammarly.com/

    • Thumbtack: https://www.thumbtack.com/

    • FRED on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/FRED

    • How Airbnb Proved That Storytelling Is the Most Important Skill in Design: https://www.inc.com/yazin-akkawi/the-surprising-technique-airbnb-uses-to-better-sell-an-experience.html

    • Google+: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%2B

    • Marco Zappacosta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcozappacosta/

    • Bryan Schreier on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanschreier/

    • Whitney Steele on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneydsteele/

    • David Shein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidshein/

    • The magic of thinking big, by Lenny Rachitsky: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/the-magic-of-thinking-big-by-lenny-rachitsky/

    • What Seven Years at Airbnb Taught Me About Building a Business: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-seven-years-at-airbnb-taught

    • New apps, new experiences: NPE Team, from Facebook: https://tech.facebook.com/engineering/2019/7/npe-team-from-facebook/

    • The Origin Story of the BRC Trash Fence: https://journal.burningman.org/2016/05/black-rock-city/leaving-no-trace/the-origin-story-of-the-brc-trash-fence/

    • Nike opens high-tech research and innovation lab: https://www.just-style.com/news/nike-opens-high-tech-research-and-innovation-lab/

    • ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/

    • Microsoft Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com/

    • How to grow a subscription business | Yuriy Timen (Grammarly, Canva, Airtable): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-grow-a-subscription-business-yuriy-timen-grammarly-canva-airtable/

    • “The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek”: https://gointothestory.blcklst.com/the-cave-you-fear-to-enter-holds-the-treasure-you-seek-d624e28c3848

    • Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making: https://www.amazon.com/Build-Unorthodox-Guide-Making-Things/dp/0063046067

    • For All Mankind on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/for-all-mankind/umc.cmc.6wsi780sz5tdbqcf11k76mkp7

    • Fargo TV series on Hulu: https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/fargo

    • Arc browser: https://arc.net/

    • Competing with giants: An inside look at how The Browser Company builds product | Josh Miller (CEO): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/competing-with-giants-an-inside-look-at-how-the-browser-company-builds-product-josh-miller-ceo/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Marty Cagan is a luminary in the world of product. He’s the author of two of the most foundational books for product teams and product leaders (Inspired and Empowered), he’s the founder of Silicon Valley Product Group (one of the longest-running product advisory groups), and he’s almost certainly worked with more product leaders and teams than any human alive. Now he’s releasing his newest book, Transformed, which is sure to become a staple of tech-powered companies worldwide. Marty’s previous appearance on our show remains one of the most popular episodes to date. In this conversation, we discuss:

    • The rise of “product management theater”

    • Changes in the PM role post-ZIRP and the shift from growth to build functions

    • The disconnect between good product companies and online product advice

    • How over-hiring has created challenges in the product industry

    • The most important skills for PMs to build

    • How to know if you’re on a “feature team”

    • The potential disruption of product management by AI

    • Marty’s new book, Transformed: Moving to the Product Operating Model

    • Four new competencies required for successful product organizations

    Brought to you by:

    • Sprig—Build a product people love

    • Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/product-management-theater-marty-cagan-silicon-valley-product-group/

    Where to find Marty Cagan:

    • X: https://twitter.com/cagan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/

    • Silicon Valley Product Group: https://www.svpg.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Marty’s background

    (04:46) His take on the state of product management

    (12:08) Product management theater

    (18:33) Feature teams vs. empowered product teams

    (24:48) Skills of a real product manager

    (29:27) The product management reckoning is here

    (32:05) Taking control of your product management career

    (34:59) The challenge of finding reliable product management advice

    (40:18) The disconnect between good product companies and the product management community

    (44:23) Top-down vs. bottom-up cultures

    (47:06) The shift in product management post-ZIRP era

    (49:44) The changing landscape of product management

    (52:05) The disruption of PM skills by AI

    (55:56) The purpose and content of Marty’s new book, Transformed

    (01:02:05) The product operating model

    (01:08:27) New competencies required for successful product teams

    (01:11:25) Marty’s thoughts on product ops

    (01:15:13) Advice for founders who don’t want product managers

    (01:18:06) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Transformed: Moving to the Product Operating Model: https://www.amazon.com/Transformed-Becoming-Product-Driven-Company-Silicon/dp/1119697336

    • Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507

    • Empowered: Ordinary People, Extraordinary Products: https://www.amazon.com/EMPOWERED-Ordinary-Extraordinary-Products-Silicon/dp/111969129X

    • The nature of product | Marty Cagan, Silicon Valley Product Group: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-nature-of-product-marty-cagan-silicon-valley-product-group/

    • Product Leadership Theater: https://www.svpg.com/product-leadership-theater/

    • Product Management Theater: https://www.svpg.com/product-management-theater/

    • Linear: https://linear.app/

    • How Linear builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linear-builds-product

    • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/brian-cheskys-new-playbook/

    • Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to be coders, Jensen Huang warns: https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/27/jensen_huang_coders/

    • Epic Waste: https://www.svpg.com/epic-waste/

    • What is scrum and how to get started: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/scrum

    • CSPO: https://www.scrumalliance.org/get-certified/product-owner-track/certified-scrum-product-owner

    • PSPO: https://www.scrum.org/courses/professional-scrum-product-owner-training

    • Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

    • Continuous Discovery Habits: Discover Products That Create Customer Value and Business Value: https://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Discovery-Habits-Discover-Products/dp/1736633309

    • Shreyas Doshi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shreyasdoshi/

    • Ben Erez’s LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7168978777966891008/

    • Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

    • The essence of product management | Christian Idiodi (SVPG): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-essence-of-product-management-christian-idiodi-svpg/

    • Making Meta | Andrew ‘Boz’ Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto/

    • Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career-nikhyl-singhal-meta-google/

    • Partners at SVPG: https://www.svpg.com/team/

    • Trainline: https://www.thetrainline.com/

    • Almosafer: https://global.almosafer.com/

    • Expedia: https://www.expedia.com/

    • Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    • The ultimate guide to product operations | Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-operations-melissa-perri-and-denise-tilles/

    • Understanding the role of product ops | Christine Itwaru (Pendo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/understanding-the-role-of-product-ops-christine-itwaru-pendo/

    • Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making: https://www.amazon.com/Build-Unorthodox-Guide-Making-Things/dp/0063046067

    • What’s Our Problem?: A Self-Help Book for Societies: https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Our-Problem-Self-Help-Societies/dp/B0BVGH6T1Q

    • Rivian: https://rivian.com/

    • AI-1 airbag vest: https://www.klim.com/Ai-1-Airbag-Vest-3046-000

    • Leslie Lamport’s quote: https://quotefancy.com/quote/3702194/Leslie-Lamport-If-you-re-thinking-without-writing-you-only-think-you-re-thinking

    • Joan Didion’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/264509-i-don-t-know-what-i-think-until-i-write-it

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Ray (Jiayi) Cao is the global head of product strategy and operations for monetization product at TikTok. Prior to TikTok, Ray spent six years at Google helping scale Google Shopping globally. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • TikTok’s internal culture and core values

    • How TikTok’s product team operates

    • How working at TikTok is different from working at Google

    • How TikTok rolls out to new markets

    • TikTok’s core principle of “context, not control”

    • How their sales and product teams work together

    • Lessons (and mistakes) from building TikTok’s early go-to-market team

    • The importance of hiring for quality rather than quantity

    • Insights on being successful on TikTok as a creator, a business, and an advertiser

    Brought to you by:

    • WorkOS—The modern API for auth & user identity

    • Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

    • OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/inside-tiktok-culture-strategy-monetization-and-more-ray-cao-global-head-of-monetization-prod/

    Where to find Ray Cao:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jiayiraycao/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Ray’s background

    (04:55) Cultural differences between Google and TikTok

    (08:24) Fine-tuning the algorithm for different markets

    (12:15) Examples of fine-tuning the algorithm

    (15:11) Core principles and values of TikTok

    (19:34) Hiring at TikTok

    (21:38) Embracing the “always day one” mentality

    (25:09) Collaboration between teams

    (28:38) Amazon’s cultural influence

    (31:14) Setting up the product organization for speed and innovation

    (35:38) Building the go-to-market team

    (40:18) What makes people successful at TikTok

    (43:02) Thoughts on putting in long hours

    (44:40) OKRs and planning at TikTok

    (49:12) Tips for how to be successful on TikTok

    (53:49) Tips for advertising on TikTok

    (01:04:03) Getting started with TikTok Ads

    (01:08:42) Common mistakes to avoid with TikTok advertising

    (01:09:44) Ray’s favorite TikTok account

    (01:10:54) Where to find Ray

    Referenced:

    • TikTok: https://tiktok.com/

    • Google Shopping: https://shopping.google.com/

    • Eugene Wei’s blog: https://www.eugenewei.com/

    • TikTok and the Sorting Hat: https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2020/8/3/tiktok-and-the-sorting-hat

    • How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence-elizabeth-stone-cto/

    • Inside OpenAI | Logan Kilpatrick (head of developer relations): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/inside-openai-logan-kilpatrick-head-of-developer-relations/

    • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/brian-cheskys-new-playbook/

    • Lead with Context not Control: https://www.svpg.com/lead-with-context-not-control/

    • Shuba on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tiktokbrownchick

    • Duolingo on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@duolingo

    • Duolingo leagues: https://duolingo.fandom.com/wiki/League

    • CapCut: https://www.capcut.com/

    • Amanda Talijan (silent baby item reviews) on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@amanda_talijan/video/7321700482018233642

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Andrew Bosworth—or Boz, as most people know him—is the chief technology officer at Meta and head of Reality Labs, the company’s augmented reality/virtual reality (AR/VR) organization, which he created in 2017. Boz joined Facebook in 2006 as their approximately 10th engineer, and in his 18-year tenure he built the original News Feed, Messenger, and Groups, as well as many early anti-abuse and infrastructure systems. At various times he has been the engineering director overseeing Events, Places, Photos, Videos, Timeline, Privacy, and more. Before Reality Labs, he ran the Ads and Business Platform product group, where he led engineering, product, research, analytics, and design, taking annual revenue from $4 billion to $40 billion in five years. Andrew currently leads Meta’s efforts in AR, VR, AI, and consumer hardware across Quest, Ray-Ban Meta glasses, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Stories from the early days of Facebook

    • Lessons from Meta’s downturn and recent turnaround

    • Meta’s culture of transparency

    • Boz’s thoughts on the Apple Vision Pro

    • Why communication is the job

    • Why you should regularly seek help from your manager

    • Lessons in setting incentives and avoiding their misuse

    • Why you should optimize for a variety in experience in your career

    • The importance of trusting your own expertise and not being swayed by external opinions

    • Stories of failures and personal growth

    Brought to you by:

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

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    • Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto/

    Where to find Andrew Bosworth:

    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/boz/

    • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/boztank/

    • X: https://twitter.com/boztank

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-bosworth-8247a01/

    • Website: https://boz.com/

    • Photography website: https://wardenshortbow.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Boz’s background

    (04:48) Fun facts about him

    (07:20) Early days at Facebook

    (11:11) Advice for founders

    (13:22) Leveraging leaders

    (19:27) Tips for communicating with managers

    (22:10) Transparency at Meta

    (27:01) The importance of clear guidelines

    (29:11) Involvement in the details

    (33:15) Building the News Feed

    (37:28) Passion and career growth

    (40:25) Exploring new opportunities

    (42:02) The value of variety in experience

    (45:01) Giving and receiving feedback

    (47:38) Boz’s tattoos

    (51:30) Communication is the job

    (01:00:47) Comparing VR headsets: Meta Quest 3 and Apple Vision Pro

    (01:10:41) Meta’s downturn and turnaround

    (01:16:10) Navigating org changes

    (01:20:43) Lessons from failure

    (01:26:33) Closing thoughts

    (01:29:57) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Reality Labs: https://about.meta.com/realitylabs/

    • Quest: https://www.meta.com/quest/

    • Ray-Ban Meta smart glasses: https://www.ray-ban.com/usa/ray-ban-meta-smart-glasses

    • Taekwondo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taekwondo

    • 4-H: https://4-h.org/

    • David Copperfield’s website: https://www.davidcopperfield.com/html/

    • MC Hammer on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mchammer/

    • George W. Bush: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/george-w-bush/

    • Fry’s Electronics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fry%27s_Electronics

    • Association for Computing Machinery: https://www.acm.org

    • Get It Done: https://boz.com/articles/get-it-done

    • Patrick Stewart on X: https://twitter.com/sirpatstew

    • The FB Exec Practice That Changed the Way I Lead (about HPMs): https://livingos.substack.com/p/fb-exec-hpm

    • Mark Zuckerberg on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/zuck

    • Chris Cox on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-cox-2896b841/

    • Javier Olivan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/javierolivan/

    • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/brian-cheskys-new-playbook/

    • Eye of Sauron: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_Sauron

    • Ruchi Sanghvi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsanghvi/

    • Eric Schmidt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-e-schmidt/

    • Sheryl Sandberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheryl-sandberg-5126652/

    • Best Advice Sheryl Sandberg Received: If Offered a Seat on Rocket Ship, Get On: https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/newsmakers/best-advice-sheryl-sandberg-received-don-t-idiot-161459450.html

    • Veritas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas

    • Communication is The Job: https://boz.com/articles/communication-is-the-job

    • Repetition does not spoil the prayer: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/repetition-does-spoil-prayer-constantine-constantinides-m-d-ph-d--1f/

    • Janet Lansbury’s website: https://www.janetlansbury.com/

    • Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside

    • Boz to the Future Episode 18: The Future According to Matthew Ball: https://www.meta.com/blog/quest/boz-to-the-future-episode-18-matthew-ball-metaverse-epyllion/

    • Apple Vision Pro: https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro

    • Quest 3 headset: https://www.meta.com/quest/quest-3/

    • Virtual desktop: https://www.meta.com/experiences/2017050365004772/

    • Meta Horizon Workrooms: https://www.meta.com/experiences/2514011888645651/

    • After trying the Vision Pro, Mark Zuckerberg says Quest 3 ‘is the better product, period’: https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-zuckerberg-apple-vision-pro-review-quest-3

    • Lou Holtz on X: https://twitter.com/CoachLouHoltz88

    • Gell-Mann amnesia effect: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_Amnesia_effect

    • “Wet streets cause rain”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19026568

    • Michael Crichton on X: https://twitter.com/CrichtonBooks

    • AI research at Meta: https://ai.meta.com/research/

    • Llama 2: https://llama.meta.com/

    • Warren Buffett quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/warren_buffett_383933

    • Mark Slee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcslee/

    • Dave Fetterman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davefetterman/

    • Emacs and Vim: https://dev.to/george_udonte/emacs-and-vim-an-overview-for-beginners-2e65

    • Ami Vora on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amvora/

    • The Dream Machine: https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machine-M-Mitchell-Waldrop/dp/1732265119

    • Alan Turing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

    • Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Inside-Guide-Becoming-Parent/dp/B09Y4WG7RJ

    • Dr. Becky’s website: https://www.goodinside.com/

    • The Mandalorian on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/series/the-mandalorian/3jLIGMDYINqD

    • Scott Trowbridge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-trowbridge-b70866/

    • Dave Filoni on X: https://twitter.com/dave_filoni

    • Jon Favreau on X: https://twitter.com/jon_favreau

    • Mercedes-Benz AMG EQS Sedan: https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/model/eqs/sedan/amgeqsv4

    • Tracey Emin “Trust Yourself”: https://www.artsy.net/artwork/tracey-emin-trust-yourself

    • Tracey Emin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/traceyeminstudio

    • Rick Rubin: Protocols to Access Creative Energy and Process | Huberman Lab Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpgqXCkRO-w

    • Ansel Adams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansel_Adams

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Donna Lichaw is an internationally sought-after executive coach, keynote speaker, and best-selling author. She helps visionary founders, CEOs, and executive teams level up their leadership and scale their impact while staying true to their mission, purpose, and themselves. Donna works with leaders at companies like Google, Disney, Twitter, Microsoft, Mailchimp, and Adobe, as well as a plethora of mission-driven startups and nonprofits. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How our personal narratives influence our success and failure

    • Why identifying your superpowers (and kryptonite) is so important, and how to do it

    • The value of doubling down on your strengths rather than trying to fix weaknesses

    • How to acknowledge and reframe feelings of impostor syndrome

    • The Double Diamond framework for personal growth and goal-setting

    • The power of visualization and how it can fuel motivation and creativity

    Brought to you by:

    • OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

    • Sendbird—The (all-in-one) communications API platform for mobile apps

    • Sprig—Build a product people love

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-discover-your-superpowers-own-your-story-and-unlock-personal-growth-donna-lichaw-author/

    Where to find Donna Lichaw:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dlichaw/

    • Website: https://www.donnalichaw.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Donna’s background

    (04:25) Donna’s origin story and transition to coaching

    (08:38) The power of storytelling in leadership

    (11:36) Becoming the hero of your own story

    (14:49) Changing your story

    (21:19) Understanding and shifting others’ stories

    (25:41) Imposter syndrome

    (31:28) Exploring different types of kryptonite

    (36:41) Identifying and leveraging strengths

    (43:53) Identifying superpowers

    (56:39) Running experiments

    (01:01:52) Using product frameworks for personal growth

    (01:12:41) Identifying subconscious goals

    (01:15:27) Envisioning impact

    (01:16:44) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • The Leader’s Journey: Transforming Your Leadership to Achieve the Extraordinary: https://www.amazon.com/Leaders-Journey-Transforming-Leadership-Extraordinary/dp/1959029134

    • Effective Leadership Is Transformational, by Ken Blanchard: https://www.chieflearningofficer.com/2019/06/13/effective-leadership-is-transformational/

    • Ken Blanchard’s website: https://www.blanchard.com/

    • How to write a kickass README: https://dev.to/scottydocs/how-to-write-a-kickass-readme-5af9

    • This Week #5: Overcoming impostor syndrome, introducing growth to an org, and how to partner with your Data Scientist: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/this-week-overcoming-impostor-syndrome

    • Community Wisdom: Dealing with impostor syndrome as a PM: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/community-wisdom-dealing-with-impostor

    • Stuart Smalley: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Smalley

    • Kryptonite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptonite

    • How Dyslexic Thinking Gives Entrepreneurs a Competitive Edge: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisoncoleman/2023/05/16/how-dyslexic-thinking-gives-entrepreneurs-a-competitive-edge/

    • Characterizing Creative Thinking and Creative Achievements in Relation to Symptoms of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorder: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9283685/

    • Robert Iger: https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/leaders/robert-a-iger/

    • CliftonStrengths test: https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/252137/home.aspx

    • VIA Character Strengths: https://www.viacharacter.org/

    • How to fire people with grace, work through fear, and nurture innovation | Matt Mochary (CEO coach): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-fire-people-with-grace-work-through-fear-and-nurture-innovation-matt-mochary-ceo-coach/

    •10 Steve Jobs Quotes That’ll Stick With You Long After You Read Them: https://www.themuse.com/advice/10-steve-jobs-quotes-thatll-stick-with-you-long-after-you-read-them

    • Gestalt coaching: https://gestaltcenterforcoaching.com/

    • Gestalt therapy: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy-types/gestalt-therapy

    • Head, Heart and Hands: http://creatingminds.org/tools/head_heart_hands.htm

    • Managing nerves, anxiety, and burnout | Jonny Miller (Nervous System Mastery): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/managing-nerves-anxiety-and-burnout-jonny-miller-nervous-system-mastery/

    • The User’s Journey: Storymapping Products That People Love: https://www.amazon.com/Users-Journey-Storymapping-Products-People/dp/1933820314

    • For All Mankind on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/for-all-mankind/umc.cmc.6wsi780sz5tdbqcf11k76mkp7

    • Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/umc.cmc.vtoh0mn0xn7t3c643xqonfzy

    • The Art of Possibility: Transforming Professional and Personal Life: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Possibility-Transforming-Professional-Personal/dp/0142001104

    • IMPRESA Monkey Noodle Stretchy String Fidget/Sensory Toys: https://www.amazon.com/IMPRESA-Glitter-Stretchy-Phthalate-Latex-Free/dp/B0868X6NRQ

    • Dolly Parton quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21268-find-out-who-you-are-and-do-it-on-purpose

    • Donna’s favorite fidgets: https://pen-name.notion.site/Donna-Lichaw-s-Favorite-Fidgets-f84f241d31704a498d71d3502af1821b?pvs=4

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Elizabeth Stone is the chief technology officer of Netflix. She previously served as vice president of product data science and engineering, and as vice president of data and insights, at Netflix. Before Netflix, Elizabeth was vice president of science at Lyft, chief operating officer at Nuna, a trader at Merrill Lynch, and an economist at Analysis Group. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Elizabeth’s advice for career advancement

    • Netflix’s unique high-performance culture

    • How, and why, Netflix maintains a high bar for excellence

    • Intentional leadership practices

    • How to foster an “open door” culture within your team

    • The Keeper Test and how it contributes to maintaining a high bar for excellence

    • The power of transparent communication

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    • Sendbird—The (all-in-one) communications API platform for mobile apps

    • Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence-elizabeth-stone-cto/

    Where to find Elizabeth Stone:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-stone-608a754/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Elizabeth’s background

    (04:36) Life as CTO vs. VP of Data

    (05:57) The role of economists in tech companies

    (08:32) Using economics to understand incentives

    (10:07) Success and career growth

    (20:15) Setting expectations

    (25:02) Advice for how to avoid burnout

    (27:44) Netflix culture: high talent density

    (30:31) Netflix culture: candor and directness

    (31:45) The Keeper Test

    (39:01) Maintaining a high bar for excellence

    (43:54) Netflix culture: freedom and responsibility

    (46:18) Unconventional processes at Netflix

    (47:55) Examples of candor

    (51:44) Data and insights team structure

    (01:00:12) Staying close to teams

    (01:02:31) Advice on being present

    (01:07:40) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • What to Know About the Netflix Cup, Today’s First-Ever Live Sports Event: https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/netflix-cup-live-event-date-news

    • Ann Miura Ko interview | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2GO0Ks_VGg

    • Netflix culture: https://jobs.netflix.com/culture

    • No Rules Rules: Netflix and the Culture of Reinvention: https://www.amazon.com/No-Rules-Netflix-Culture-Reinvention/dp/1984877860

    • Reed Hastings on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reedhastings/

    • Netflix’s “Keeper Test” and Why You Need It | Lorne Rubis: https://www.highlights.lornerubis.com/2015/08/the-netflix-keeper-test-and-the-courage-to-take-it/

    • The Hunger Games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunger_Games

    • Nan Yu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thenanyu/

    • Work Life Philosophy: https://jobs.netflix.com/work-life-philosophy

    • The Scoop: Netflix’s historic introduction of levels for software engineers: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/netflix-levels/

    • Chaos Monkey: https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/Chaos-Monkey

    • Ali Rauh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ali-rauh/

    • Keith Henwood on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-henwood/

    • Jeff Bezos’ Morning Routine of Puttering Around—How It Works: https://medium.com/illumination/jeff-bezos-morning-routine-of-puttering-around-how-it-works-9d73f359ac8d

    • What I Talk About When I Talk About Running: A Memoir: https://www.amazon.com/What-Talk-About-When-Running/dp/0307389839

    • A Fine Balance: https://www.amazon.com/Fine-Balance-Rohinton-Mistry/dp/140003065X

    • Triangle of Sadness on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/triangle-of-sadness-f60937bd-45f4-469a-938f-db95026953a1

    • Beef on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81447461

    • Fellow pour-over coffee set: https://fellowproducts.com/products/stagg-xf-pour-over-set

    • Peloton bikes: https://www.onepeloton.com/shop/bike

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Jason Lemkin created and runs SaaStr, the world’s largest community for B2B/SaaS founders, and is the managing director of SaaStr Fund, a $90 million venture capital firm specializing in early-stage enterprise investments. He is also the mastermind behind two major tech conferences each year—one in the Bay Area, drawing in over 15,000 people, and another in Europe, with a crowd of more than 3,000 SaaS executives, founders, and entrepreneurs. Before SaaStr, Jason wore many hats: CEO and co-founder of EchoSign (later bought by Adobe), vice president at Adobe Systems, co-founder and president of NanoGram Devices Corp., vice president of NeoPhotonics, and a senior director at BabyCenter. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How far you should go without a salesperson

    • Signs it’s time to hire salespeople

    • Why you need to hire two salespeople

    • How to compensate your salespeople

    • How to interview salespeople

    • When to hire a VP of Sales

    • How to prevent their flaming out

    • How to scale your sales org

    • How to improve the relationship between your sales and product teams

    • Much more

    Brought to you by:

    • CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    • LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-a-world-class-sales-org-jason-lemkin-saastr/

    Where to find Jason Lemkin:

    • X: https://twitter.com/jasonlk

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonmlemkin/

    • Website: https://www.saastr.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jason’s background

    (06:18) The importance of sales in B2B businesses

    (11:23) Signs that you should start hiring salespeople

    (14:19) Attributes to look for in early sales reps

    (19:08) Hiring a VP of Sales

    (26:43) The role of a VP of Sales

    (30:06) Interviewing salespeople

    (45:16) Determining sales compensation and quota

    (53:34) Transitioning from 100% commission to a smaller percentage

    (56:58) Indicators of a hard-to-sell product

    (59:39) Scaling the sales organization

    (01:05:26) Understanding sales roles and titles

    (01:10:02) Product involvement in sales, and vice versa

    (01:20:32) Thoughts on product teams taking on P&L responsibilities

    (01:27:23) One thing founders can do to become better at sales

    (01:31:02) The ideal trial length for a free trial sales team

    (01:39:50) Closing thoughts

    (01:41:43) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Marc Benioff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbenioff/

    • Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

    • Yamini Rangan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaminirangan/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    • HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

    • Twilio: https://www.twilio.com/

    • Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/

    • GitHub: https://github.com/

    • Columbo: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1466074/

    • What is Davos and why is it important? Your guide to the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting: https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/01/15/what-is-davos-and-why-is-it-important-your-guide-to-the-world-economic-forums-annual-meeti

    • Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/

    • Satya Nadella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/

    • Glengarry Glen Ross on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Glengarry-Glen-Ross-James-Foley/dp/B002NN5F7A

    • The Wolf of Wall Street on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Wolf-Wall-Street-Leonardo-DiCaprio/dp/B00IIU9FQY

    • A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting-a-sales-pitch-that-wins-april-dunford-author-of-obviously-awesom/

    • Pipedrive: https://www.pipedrive.com/

    • Sam Blond on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-blond-791026b/

    • Gong: https://www.gong.io/

    • Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/

    • ZoomInfo: https://www.zoominfo.com/

    • Apollo: https://www.apollo.io/

    • Daniel Chait on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhchait/

    • SAP: https://www.sap.com/

    • Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-on-building-product-sense-navigating-ai-optimizing-the-first-mile-and-making-it-through-t/

    • VistaPrint: https://www.vistaprint.com/

    • Procore: https://www.procore.com/

    • Matt Mullenweg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/

    • Wordpress: https://wordpress.com/

    • SaaStr University: https://app.saastruniversity.com/collections/20252

    • From Impossible to Inevitable: How SaaS and Other Hyper-Growth Companies Create Predictable Revenue: https://www.amazon.com/Impossible-Inevitable-Hyper-Growth-Companies-Predictable/dp/1119531691

    • Pavilion: https://www.joinpavilion.com/

    • Top 10 Learnings about Free Trials with Tomasz Tunguz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfQNJpnxmMw

    • The Terminal List on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/The-Terminal-List-Season-1/dp/B09HYNH8TK

    • Top Gun: Maverick on Paramount: https://www.paramountmovies.com/movies/top-gun-maverick

    • OpusClip app: https://www.opus.pro/

    • OnePlus Open smartphone: https://www.amazon.com/OnePlus-Dual-SIM-Unlocked-Smartphone-Hasselblad/dp/B0CHN7M531/

    • SaaStr conferences: https://www.saastr.com/events/

    • Marketo: https://go.marketo.com/about-marketo-landingpage-emea.html

    • Zoomtopia: https://zoomtopia.com/

    • Money20/20: https://us.money2020.com/

    • Shoptalk: https://shoptalk.com/

    • Jeff Lawson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffiel/

    • Eric Kwan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erickwan/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Jake Knapp and John Zeratsky are the authors of best-selling books Sprint and Make Time. They have helped more than 300 teams design new products and bring them to market, including those at YouTube, Gusto, One Medical Group, and Slack. Jake and John are co-founders of the venture capital firm Character, where they support startups with capital and sprints. Previously, they were operating partners at Google Ventures and, before that, design leaders at Google, where John worked on Google Ads and YouTube and Jake helped build Gmail and co-founded Google Meet. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • “Busy bandwagon” and “infinity pools”

    • Creating one “highlight” each day

    • Their four-part framework for productivity

    • How to use the calendar to design your day

    • How creating friction can help you avoid distractions

    • Tips on creating a distraction-free phone

    • Strategies for managing email and distractions

    • The importance of reflecting on the day and making time for meaningful work

    • Design sprints

    Brought to you by:

    • Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers

    • Whimsical—The iterative product workspace

    • WorkOS—The modern API for auth and user identity

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/making-time-for-what-matters-jake-knapp-and-john-zeratsky-authors-of-sprint-and-make-time-co-fou/

    Where to find Jake Knapp:

    • X: https://twitter.com/jakek

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-knapp/

    • Website: https://jakeknapp.com/

    Where to find John Zeratsky:

    • X: https://twitter.com/jazer

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnzeratsky/

    • Website: https://johnzeratsky.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) About Jake and John

    (04:10) Recording the audiobook for Make Time

    (06:06) What people often get wrong when trying to become more productive

    (11:24) The busy bandwagon and infinity pools

    (15:22) Real talk: Jake and John’s productivity levels

    (20:10) The four-part framework for getting more done: Highlight, Laser, Energize, Reflect

    (25:15) Step 1: Highlight

    (28:08) Designing your day with a calendar

    (30:52) The Groundhog Day mentality

    (35:10) Tactical advice for implementing the highlight method

    (39:30) An example of a failed highlight

    (48:08) Step 2: Laser

    (51:12) Creating intentional friction to avoid distractions

    (57:28) Curating a distraction-free phone

    (01:07:58) Resetting expectations and slowing your inbox

    (01:14:51) Systems over willpower

    (01:18:14) Managing email distractions

    (01:18:49) Step 3: Energize

    (01:22:05) Step 4: Reflect

    (01:26:30) Introduction to Sprint

    Referenced:

    • Make Time: How to Focus on What Matters Every Day: https://www.amazon.com/Make-Time-Focus-Matters-Every/dp/0525572422

    • Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-audiobook/dp/B019R2DQIY

    • Make Time blog: https://maketime.blog/

    • Make Time blog on X: https://twitter.com/maketimeblog

    • Character: https://www.character.vc/

    • Google Ventures: https://www.gv.com/

    • Character Labs: https://www.character.vc/labs

    • Strategies for becoming less distracted and improving focus | Nir Eyal (author of Indistractable and Hooked): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/strategies-for-becoming-less-distracted-and-improving-focus-nir-eyal-author-of-indistractable-and/

    • Groundhog Day on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Groundhog-Day-Bill-Murray/dp/B000SP1SH6

    • Reclaim.ai: https://reclaim.ai/

    • Feed Blocker for LinkedIn: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/feed-blocker-for-linkedin/eikaafmldiioljlilngpogcepiedpenf

    • The Lord of the Rings: https://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0544003411

    • MagSafe charger: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-MHXH3AM-A-MagSafe-Charger/dp/B08L5NP6NG/

    • Nanit app: https://www.nanit.com/pages/nanit-app

    • Arianna Huffington’s Phone Bed Charging Station: https://www.amazon.com/Arianna-Huffingtons-Charging-Station-Walnut/dp/B0799ZG1LY

    • Cell Phone Lock Box with Timer: https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Android-Self-Discipline-Achieve-Addiction/dp/B0CG8V4YG3?th=1

    • The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich: https://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Workweek-Escape-Live-Anywhere/dp/0307465357

    • The Economist: https://www.economist.com/

    • Odysseus: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Odysseus

    • Mailman: https://www.mailmanhq.com/

    • Future: https://www.future.co/

    • Notion: https://www.notion.so/

    • Miro: https://miro.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Logan Kilpatrick leads developer relations at OpenAI, supporting developers building with the OpenAI API and ChatGPT. He is also on the board of directors at NumFOCUS, the nonprofit organization that supports open source projects like Jupyter, Pandas, NumPy, and more. Before OpenAI, Logan was a machine-learning engineer at Apple and advised NASA on open source policy. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • OpenAI’s fast-paced and innovative work environment

    • The value of high agency and high urgency in your employees

    • Tips for writing better ChatGPT prompts

    • How the GPT Store is doing

    • OpenAI’s planning process and decision-making criteria

    • Where OpenAI is heading in the next few years

    • Insight into OpenAI’s B2B offerings

    • Why Logan “measures in hundreds”

    Brought to you by:

    • Hex—Helping teams ask and answer data questions by working together

    • Whimsical—The iterative product workspace

    • Arcade Software—Create effortlessly beautiful demos in minutes

    Find the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/episodes/. Today’s transcript will be live by 8 a.m. PT.

    Where to find Logan Kilpatrick:

    • X: https://twitter.com/OfficialLoganK

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logankilpatrick/

    • Website: https://logank.ai/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Logan’s background

    (03:49) The impact of recent events on OpenAI’s team and culture

    (08:20) Exciting developments in AI interfaces

    (09:52) Using OpenAI tools to make companies more efficient

    (13:04) Examples of using AI effectively

    (18:35) Prompt engineering

    (22:12) How to write better prompts

    (26:05) The launch of GPTs and the OpenAI Store

    (32:10) The importance of high agency and urgency

    (34:35) OpenAI’s ability to move fast and ship high-quality products

    (35:56) OpenAI’s planning process and decision-making criteria

    (40:22) The importance of real-time communication

    (42:33) OpenAI’s team and growth

    (44:47) Future developments at OpenAI

    (47:42) GPT-5 and building toward the future

    (50:38) OpenAI’s enterprise offering and the value of sharing custom applications

    (52:30) New updates and features from OpenAI

    (55:09) How to leverage OpenAI’s technology in products

    (58:26) Encouragement for building with AI

    (59:30) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • OpenAI: https://openai.com/

    • Sam Altman on X: https://twitter.com/sama

    • Greg Brockman on X: https://twitter.com/gdb

    • tldraw: https://www.tldraw.com/

    • Harvey: https://www.harvey.ai/

    • Boost Your Productivity with Generative AI: https://hbr.org/2023/06/boost-your-productivity-with-generative-ai

    • Research: quantifying GitHub Copilot’s impact on developer productivity and happiness: https://github.blog/2022-09-07-research-quantifying-github-copilots-impact-on-developer-productivity-and-happiness/

    • Lesson learnt from the DPD AI Chatbot swearing blunder: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/lesson-learnt-from-dpd-ai-chatbot-swearing-blunder-kitty-sz57e/

    • Dennis Yang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisyang/

    • Tim Ferriss’s blog: https://tim.blog/

    • Tyler Cowen on X: https://twitter.com/tylercowen

    • Tom Cruise on X: https://twitter.com/TomCruise

    • Canva: https://www.canva.com/

    • Zapier: https://zapier.com/

    • Siqi Chen on X: https://twitter.com/blader

    • Runway: https://runway.com/

    • Universal Primer: https://chat.openai.com/g/g-GbLbctpPz-universal-primer

    • “I didn’t expect ChatGPT to get so good” | Unconfuse Me with Bill Gates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-Ymdc6EdKw

    • Microsoft Azure: https://azure.microsoft.com/

    • Lennybot: https://www.lennybot.com/

    • Visual Electric: https://visualelectric.com/

    • DALL-E: https://openai.com/research/dall-e

    • The One World Schoolhouse: https://www.amazon.com/One-World-Schoolhouse-Education-Reimagined/dp/1455508373/ref=sr_1_1

    • Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144324

    • Gran Turismo: https://www.netflix.com/title/81672085

    • Gran Turismo video game: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/gran-turismo/

    • Manta sleep mask: https://mantasleep.com/products/manta-sleep-mask

    • WAOAW sleep mask: https://www.amazon.com/WAOAW-Sleep-Sleeping-Blocking-Blindfold/dp/B09712FSLY

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Megan Cook is the head of product for Atlassian’s Jira software, which is used by 75% of Fortune 500 companies, has over 125,000 customers globally, over 15 different products, and is by far the most popular project management tool in the world. Megan has been at Atlassian for just under 11 years, and before this role, she was an analyst, a developer, and an Agile coach. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • How to get buy-in for your ideas

    • The value of starting small

    • How, and why, creating space for play is so essential

    • How Jira stays ahead of endless competition

    • Atlassian’s approach to launching new product lines

    • Tactical tips for making remote work, work

    • A personal failure and the lessons learned from it

    Brought to you by:

    • Teal—Your personal career growth platform

    • Sprig—Build a product people love

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    Find the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/episodes/. Today’s transcript will be live by 8 a.m. PT.

    Where to find Megan Cook:

    • X: https://twitter.com/meganwcook

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cookmegan

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Megan’s background

    (03:50) Creating space for play and psychological safety on teams

    (07:36) Peer feedback groups

    (10:30) Sharing stories of failure

    (13:33) The “10 dollar” game for priorities

    (15:24) Advice on making remote work, work

    (24:16) Getting buy-in for your ideas

    (28:33) The importance of staying open-minded

    (34:05) A quick summary of how to get buy-in

    (36:45) Fighting the good fight

    (38:15) Identifying customer pain points

    (43:04) Starting small and showing success

    (46:08) Launching new product lines

    (53:35) Atlassian’s gated process for new product ideas

    (58:00) How Jira stays ahead of competitors

    (01:04:28) Learning from failure

    (01:08:30) Fight club

    (01:10:08) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

    • Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

    • Bitbucket: https://bitbucket.org/product

    • Ben Crowe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-crowe-67299714/

    • Ash Barty on X: https://twitter.com/ashbarty

    • Atlassian’s blog, Work Life: https://www.atlassian.com/blog

    • Lessons learned: 1,000 days of distributed at Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/distributed-work/distributed-work-report

    • New research: How to make time for the work that matters: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/distributed-work/calendar-redesign-experiment

    • Atlas: https://www.atlassian.com/software/atlas

    • Confluence: https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence

    • Lenny’s swag store: https://lennyswag.com/

    • What is CSAT and how do you measure it?: https://www.qualtrics.com/experience-management/customer/what-is-csat

    • The UX research reckoning is here | Judd Antin (Airbnb, Meta): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ux-research-reckoning-is-here-judd-antin-airbnb-meta/

    • Charlie Sutton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliesutton/

    • Nokia 6100: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_6100

    • Compass: https://www.atlassian.com/software/compass

    • Jira Product Discovery: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/product-discovery

    • Canva: https://www.canva.com/

    • Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507

    • Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-People-Tactics-Management-Building/dp/1953953212

    • Foundation on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/foundation/umc.cmc.5983fipzqbicvrve6jdfep4x3

    • Foundation book series: https://www.amazon.com/Foundation-3-Book-Boxed-Set-Empire/dp/0593499573

    • Traeger smoker: https://www.traeger.com/shop/wood-pellet-grills

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Jonny Miller is the founder of Nervous System Mastery, a course that has helped hundreds of founders and tech leaders cultivate calm, reduce nervousness, enhance resilience, and elevate their sense of aliveness. Having personally benefited from Jonny’s teachings, I’m especially excited to have him on the show. In this episode, we discuss:

    • How shifting your focus from the mind to the body can help ease nervousness

    • The power of breath in changing states

    • The importance of “interoception”

    • Specific breathing exercises to both calm and excite your nervous system

    • The A.P.E. (awareness, posture, and emotion) framework for recognizing body signals

    • The “feather, brick, dump truck” phenomenon

    • The concept of emotional debt and how to release it

    • The competitive advantage of feeling emotions

    Jonny’s five-week boot camp, Nervous System Mastery, will equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate greater calm and agency over your internal state. Learn to rewire maladaptive stress responses and improve your sleep (use code LENNY for $250 discount). Apply here.

    Brought to you by:

    • Teal—Your personal career growth platform

    • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.

    • Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/managing-nerves-anxiety-and-burnout-jonny-miller-nervous-system-mastery/

    Where to find Jonny Miller:

    • X: https://twitter.com/jonnym1ller

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonnym1ller/

    • Website: https://www.jonnymiller.co/

    • Podcast: podcast.curioushumans.com

    • Email: [email protected]

    • Course: https://nsmastery.com/lenny

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Jonny’s background

    (07:19) The bottom-up approach to nervousness and anxiety

    (09:42) The power of breath in changing states

    (11:47) The concept of state over story

    (13:56) Personal experiences with nervousness

    (15:01) Breathing exercises to calm you down

    (20:40) The “espresso” breath exercise to give you energy

    (25:44) Interoception and the A.P.E. framework

    (34:47) The “feather, brick, dump truck” phenomenon

    (37:40) Recognizing emotional debt and avoiding burnout

    (40:47) Using somatic-oriented therapy for healing

    (45:26) Telltale signs of emotional debt

    (48:13) The competitive advantage of “feeling the feels”

    (50:20) Advice for people overwhelmed by stimuli

    (52:36) The NSDR (non-sleep deep rest) practice for emotional release

    (55:38) Daily practices for emotional well-being

    (58:23) Thoughts on meditation

    (01:01:26) The Body Keeps the Score

    (01:01:58) Contrarian corner

    (01:04:43) Lightning round

    Jonny’s If [This] Then [Breathe] Recipes:

    • If [overwhelmed], then [hum]

    • If [anxious], then [breath of calm]

    • If [lethargic], then [espresso breath]

    Referenced:

    • The Operating Manual for Your Nervous System: https://every.to/p/the-operating-manual-for-your-nervous-system

    • Afferent vs. Efferent Neurons: https://www.osmosis.org/answers/afferent-vs-efferent-neurons

    • Insular cortex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex

    • Jonny’s TED Talk, “The gifts of grief”: https://www.ted.com/talks/jonny_miller_the_gifts_of_grief/details

    • Humming (Simple Bhramari Pranayama) as a Stress Buster: A Holter-Based Study to Analyze Heart Rate Variability (HRV) Parameters During Bhramari, Physical Activity, Emotional Stress, and Sleep: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10182780/

    • 14-Minute Guided NSDR (non-sleep deep rest) practice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjXX2c72fYY

    • Breathing Techniques to Reduce Stress and Anxiety | Dr. Andrew Huberman on the Physiological Sigh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSZKIupBUuc

    • Interoception: the hidden sense that shapes well-being: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/15/the-hidden-sense-shaping-your-wellbeing-interoception

    • Exteroception: https://dictionary.apa.org/exteroception

    • Interoceptive Awareness and ADHD: https://chadd.org/adhd-news/adhd-news-adults/interoceptive-awareness-and-adhd/

    • Childhood Trauma Affects Stress-Related Interoceptive Accuracy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6813623/

    • The Hour Between Dog and Wolf: How Risk Taking Transforms Us, Body and Mind: https://www.amazon.com/Hour-Between-Dog-Wolf-Transforms/dp/0143123408

    • Somatic Experiencing: https://www.somaticexperiencing.com/

    • Hakomi Institute: https://hakomiinstitute.com/

    • Decisions and Desire (about Antonio Damasio’s work): https://hbr.org/2006/01/decisions-and-desire

    • When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/when-enough-is-enough-andy-johns-ex-fb-twitter-quora/

    • What Is Yoga Nidra?: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-is-yoga-nidra

    • Becoming Fully Yourself, What AI Wants, Family Rituals & Rites of Passage, with Kevin Kelly: https://podcast.curioushumans.com/episodes/becoming-fully-yourself-what-ai-wants-rites-of-passage-with-kevin-kelly

    • Tim Ferriss: https://tim.blog/

    • The Power of Sensations: Intermediate’s Vipassana Body Scan: https://insighttimer.com/carola.ananda/guided-meditations/the-power-of-sensations-intermediates-vipassana-body-scan-meditation

    • Vipassana Meditation: https://www.dhamma.org/en/index

    • The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma: https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0670785938

    • Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma: https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Tiger-Healing-Peter-Levine/dp/155643233X

    • Consolations: The Solace, Nourishment and Underlying Meaning of Everyday Words: https://www.themarginalian.org/2015/04/29/david-whyte-consolations-words/

    • The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success: https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable/dp/0990976904/

    • The Conscious Leadership Group: https://conscious.is/

    • Recapture the Rapture: Rethinking God, Sex, and Death in a World That’s Lost Its Mind: https://www.amazon.com/Recapture-Rapture-Rethinking-Death-World/dp/0062905465

    • Kubo and the Two Strings on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Kubo-Two-Strings-Charlize-Theron/dp/B01K5BSWX0

    • Wolfwalkers on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/wolfwalkers/umc.cmc.amuoq00hqelfi98j0gvg641x

    • Scavengers Reign on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/scavengers-reign/50c8ce6d-088c-42d9-9147-d1b19b1289d4

    • Jerry Colonna on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-colonna-reboot/

    • Ra Optics “Sunset” blue-light blockers: https://raoptics.com/collections/night-lenses

    • Nurosym vagal stimulation device: https://my.nurosym.com/vns1564/

    • Pulsetto vagal stimulation device: https://pulsetto.tech/new-year/?gc_id=20124962116&h_ad_id=686249897188&gad_source=1

    • Apollo vagus nerve stimulator: https://apolloneuro.com/products/apollo-wearable

    Additional research:

    • Cellular allostatic load is linked to increased energy expenditure and accelerated biological aging: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453023003001

    • Somatic experiencing: using interoception and proprioception as core elements of trauma therapy: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.00093/full

    • Relationship between interoception and emotion regulation: New evidence from mixed methods: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032718323723

    • Out-of-the-blue panic attacks aren’t without warning: body sends signals for hour before: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21783179/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Geoffrey Moore is an author, speaker, and advisor, widely known for his seminal book Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers, which many consider the most important book ever written on go-to-market strategy. Moore’s work is focused on the market dynamics surrounding disruptive innovations, and how one overcomes the challenge of transitioning from serving early adopters to the mainstream. In this episode, we discuss:

    • What “crossing the chasm” means

    • What steps to take before you try crossing the chasm

    • The importance of winning a marquee customer

    • The role of executive sponsors in the sales process

    • The differences between visionaries and pragmatists, and how to build for each

    • Geoffrey’s four go-to-market playbooks based on stage: Early Market, Bowling Alley, Tornado, and Main Street

    • The problem with discounting before crossing the chasm

    • “Deadly sins” to avoid when crossing the chasm

    Brought to you by:

    • CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

    • WorkOS—An API platform for quickly adding enterprise features

    • Arcade Software—Create effortlessly beautiful demos in minutes

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead-crossing-the-chasm-and-dominating-a-market/

    Where to find Geoffrey Moore:

    • X: https://twitter.com/geoffreyamoore

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffreyamoore/

    • LinkedIn posts: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffreyamoore/recent-activity/articles/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Geoffrey’s background

    (04:03) What people often get wrong about Crossing the Chasm

    (05:58) Finding your beachhead segment

    (09:29) The four inflection points of the technology adoption lifestyle

    (15:45) Geoffrey’s bonfire and bowling alley analogies

    (18:36) Steps to take before trying to cross the chasm

    (22:19) Signs you’re ready to cross the chasm

    (25:19) Advice for startups on where to start

    (27:31) Thoughts on venture capital

    (27:53) A general timeline for crossing the chasm

    (30:52) What exactly is the “chasm”?

    (32:35) The difference between visionaries and pragmatists

    (36:05) Finding the compelling reason to buy

    (43:45) The Early Market playbook

    (45:46) The Bowling Alley playbook

    (48:39) Different sales approaches for early market and bowling alley

    (51:26) Changing the value state of the company

    (53:28) The Tornado playbook

    (57:35) Why combining playbooks doesn’t work

    (59:10) Using generative AI in different market phases

    (01:03:02) The risks of discounting

    (01:04:21) Other “deadly sins” of crossing the chasm

    (01:09:09) Positioning in crossing the chasm

    (01:10:36) Product-led growth and crossing the chasm

    (01:13:54) The challenges of software and entrepreneurship

    (01:16:35) How Geoffrey’s thinking has evolved

    (01:19:30) The importance of entrepreneurship and impact

    (01:20:42) His book The Infinite Staircase

    (01:23:58) Connect with Geoffrey Moore

    Referenced:

    • Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

    • Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/

    • Documentum: https://www.opentext.com/products/documentum

    • Figma: https://www.figma.com/

    • Notion: https://www.notion.so/

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    • Intel: https://www.intel.com/

    • Jason Fried challenges your thinking on fundraising, goals, growth, and more: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/jason-fried-challenges-your-thinking-on-fundraising-goals-growth-and-more/

    • The Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/

    • Coda: https://coda.io/

    • An inside look at how Figma ships product: https://coda.io/@yuhki/figma-product-roadmap

    • Dylan Field on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/

    • Regis McKenna on Crunchbase: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/regis-mckenna-inc

    • Andrew Grove: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove

    • A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting-a-sales-pitch-that-wins-april-dunford-author-of-obviously-awesom/

    • Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win: https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Pitch-Craft-Story-Stand/dp/1999023021

    • B2B Go-to-Market Playbooks and the Technology Adoption Life Cycle: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/b2b-go-to-market-playbooks-technology-adoption-life-cycle-moore/

    • Juniper: https://www.juniper.net/us/en.html

    • Sal Khan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/khanacademy/

    • Khan Academy: https://www.khanacademy.org/

    • How the Star Wars Kessel Run Turns Han Solo Into a Time-Traveler: https://www.wired.com/2013/02/kessel-run-12-parsecs/

    • Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/

    • Martin Casado on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martincasado/

    • The Infinite Staircase: What the Universe Tells Us About Life, Ethics, and Mortality: https://www.amazon.com/Infinite-Staircase-Universe-Ethics-Mortality/dp/1950665984

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Richard Rumelt is a legend in the world of strategy. He’s the author of Good Strategy/Bad Strategy and The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists, both of which are often recommended by guests on this podcast. From his early days teaching in Iran at a Harvard-sponsored business school to teaching at Harvard Business School itself to over four decades teaching at UCLA’s Anderson School of Management, Richard’s impact resonates globally. His strategic insights are sought after by major corporations including Microsoft, Shell, Apple, AT&T, Intel, and Commonwealth Bank and by governmental organizations such as the U.S. Army Special Operations Command. In this episode, we discuss:

    • The essential components of a good strategy

    • The importance of coherence in strategy

    • Common pitfalls that create a bad strategy

    • How “power” plays into strategy, and common sources of power

    • The value of knowing history when developing effective strategies

    • Why a strategy should simply be called an “action agenda”

    • The need for one decider in an organization

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    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard-rumelt/

    Where to find Richard Rumelt:

    • Email: [email protected]

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-rumelt-18520828/

    • Website: https://thecruxbook.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Richard’s background

    (04:29) What is a strategy?

    (06:23) The essential components of a good strategy (the “kernel”)

    (15:04) An example of good strategy

    (16:55) Bad strategy

    (25:17) The importance of focus and power

    (28:19) Identifying and utilizing power

    (34:38) Types of power

    (41:13) Implementing power

    (48:15) The importance of historical knowledge

    (55:23) How to write an action agenda

    (01:02:47) The crux

    (01:10:40) Challenges to executing a strategy

    (01:15:44) The need for a decider

    (01:20:39) Strategy for startups

    (01:26:04) Richard’s “value denials” exercise

    (01:31:01) Closing thoughts

    (01:33:57) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • China’s Xi says ‘reunification’ with Taiwan is inevitable: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/31/chinas-xi-says-reunification-with-taiwan-is-inevitable.html

    • The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240

    • Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239

    • Fundamental Issues in Strategy: A Research Agenda: https://www.amazon.com/Fundamental-Issues-Strategy-Research-Agenda/dp/0875843433/

    • Strategy, Structure, and Economic Performance: https://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Structure-Economic-Performance-Richard/dp/0875841090

    • There’s more than the CIA and FBI: The 17 agencies that make up the U.S. intelligence community: https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-17-intelligence-agencies-20170112-story.html

    • Programme for International Student Assessment: https://www.oecd.org/pisa/

    • Gerstner: Changing Culture at IBM—Lou Gerstner Discusses Changing the Culture at IBM: https://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/gerstner-changing-culture-at-ibm-lou-gerstner-discusses-changing-the-culture-at-ibm

    • Marvin Lieberman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marvin-lieberman-2a6b72/

    • S&P 500: https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indices/equity/sp-500/#overview

    • Battle of Tora Bora: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tora_Bora

    • Milton Friedman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman

    • The Louvre: https://www.louvre.fr/en

    • How does SpaceX build its Falcon 9 reusable rocket?: https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/how-does-spacex-build-its-falcon-9-reusable-rocket

    • Charles Darwin: History’s most famous biologist: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/charles-darwin-most-famous-biologist.html

    • Donald Rumsfeld: https://www.defense.gov/About/Biographies/Biography/Article/602800/

    • Bush: The Decider-in-Chief: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bush-the-decider-in-chief/

    • Woodrow Wilson: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/woodrow-wilson/

    • How the Sinking of Lusitania Changed World War I: https://www.history.com/news/how-the-sinking-of-lusitania-changed-wwi

    • Nokia: https://www.nokia.com/

    • The Rise and Fall of Nokia: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=46041

    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/

    • These New Windows Let the Summer Breeze In, But Block the Street Noise: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/these-new-windows-let-the-summer-breeze-in-but-block-the-street-noise-7906121/

    • Stop it! (Bob Newhart): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvujypVVBAY

    • The Innovator’s Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book That Will Change the Way You Do Business: https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Revolutionary-Change-Business/dp/0062060244

    • Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X

    • Steve Jobs: https://www.amazon.com/Steve-Jobs-Walter-Isaacson/dp/1982176865

    • Only the Paranoid Survive: How to Exploit the Crisis Points That Challenge Every Company: https://www.amazon.com/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Exploit-Challenge/dp/0385483821

    • Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr.: https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Life-John-Rockefeller-Sr/dp/1400077303/

    • Yellowstone on Paramount+: https://www.paramountnetwork.com/shows/yellowstone

    • Smart telescopes: https://milehighastro.com/collections/smart-telescopes

    • Cassandra Clare: https://cassandraclare.com/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Heidi Helfand is the author of Dynamic Reteaming, which outlines practical strategies for orchestrating successful team and company org changes. Her work is informed by more than 20 years in the tech industry at notable companies like AppFolio, Procore, and Expertcity/GoToMeeting. Today, she dedicates her efforts to sharing her knowledge through workshops, comprehensive courses, and consultative services, helping organizations navigate and optimize their team structures. In this episode, we discuss:

    • The importance of reteaming and reorging

    • The benefits of embracing reteaming

    • The five patterns of reteaming: one by one, grow and split, merging, isolation, and switching

    • Examples of successful reteaming

    • Why stable teams are not always ideal

    • How change can lead to great career opportunities

    • The RIDE framework for decision-making

    • Advice on how to set up isolated teams for success

    • The anti-patterns of reteaming and the challenges that can arise

    • Tactical tips for becoming a better listener

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    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-art-and-wisdom-of-changing-teams-heidi-helfand-author-of-dynamic-reteaming/

    Where to find Heidi Helfand:

    • X: https://twitter.com/heidihelfand

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidihelfand/

    • Website: https://www.heidihelfand.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Heidi’s background

    (03:40) How Heidi got involved with reteaming and reorgs

    (07:37) Advice for people dealing with reorgs

    (11:56) The benefits of change and the RIDE framework

    (17:11) The five patterns of reteaming

    (20:00) The power of isolation

    (27:38) Advice on how to be successful by isolating small teams

    (33:27) Supporting and protecting internal startups

    (34:33) The one-by-one pattern

    (36:44) The grow and split pattern

    (39:20) The merging pattern

    (42:14) The switching pattern

    (50:18) Anti-patterns of reteaming

    (52:49) Embracing change and growth

    (58:48) How to become a better listener

    (01:01:28) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Dynamic Reteaming: The Art and Wisdom of Changing Teams: https://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Reteaming-Wisdom-Changing-Teams/dp/1492061298

    • O’Reilly: https://www.oreilly.com/

    • Procore Technologies: https://www.procore.com/

    • Kristian Lindwall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristianlindwall/

    • Chris Smith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissmithagile

    • Transitions: Making Sense of Life’s Changes: https://www.amazon.com/Transitions-Making-Changes-Revised-Anniversary/dp/073820904X

    • Pat Wadors on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patwadors/

    • The Four Steps to the Epiphany: Successful Strategies for Products That Win: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Successful-Strategies/dp/1119690358

    • GoToMyPC: https://get.gotomypc.com/

    • Teamwork: https://www.amazon.com/Teamwork-Right-Wrong-Interpersonal-Communication/dp/0803932901

    • AppFolio: https://www.appfolio.com/

    • SecureDocs: https://www.securedocs.com/

    • Citrix: https://www.citrix.com/

    • The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups: https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Code-Secrets-Highly-Successful/dp/0804176981

    • Tuckman’s stages of group development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_development

    • Rich Sheridan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/menloprez/

    • Menlo Innovations: https://menloinnovations.com/

    • Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us: https://www.amazon.com/Drive-Surprising-Truth-About-Motivates/dp/1594484805

    • Toyota Kata: Managing People for Improvement, Adaptiveness and Superior Results: https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Kata-Managing-Improvement-Adaptiveness/dp/0071635238

    • Paulo Freire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Freire

    • Jon Walker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jwalker/

    • Managing Corporate Lifecycles: https://www.amazon.com/Managing-Corporate-Lifecycles-Ichak-Adizes/dp/9381860548

    • The Adizes Institute: https://www.adizes.com/

    • John Cutler on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/what-differentiates-the-highest-performing-product-teams-john-cutler-amplitude-the-beautiful-mes/

    • Co-Active Training Institute: https://coactive.com/

    • Co-Active Coaching: The proven framework for transformative conversations at work and in life: https://www.amazon.com/Co-Active-Coaching-Fourth-transformative-conversations/dp/1473674980

    • Creating Intelligent Teams: https://www.amazon.com/Creating-Intelligent-teams-Anne-R%C3%B8d/dp/186922583X

    • The Surprising Power of Liberating Structures: Simple Rules to Unleash a Culture of Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Surprising-Power-Liberating-Structures-Innovation/dp/0615975305

    • Facilitator’s Guide to Participatory Decision-Making: https://www.amazon.com/Facilitators-Participatory-Decision-Making-Jossey-bass-Management/dp/1118404955

    • The Bear on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/the-bear-05eb6a8e-90ed-4947-8c0b-e6536cbddd5f

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Ethan Evans is a writer, career coach, course instructor, and retired VP at Amazon. During his 15 years at Amazon, he helped invent Prime Video, Amazon Video, the Amazon Appstore, Prime Gaming (formerly Twitch Prime), and Twitch Commerce. Prior to Amazon, Ethan spent 12 years in technical leadership roles at several East Coast startups. He writes a newsletter, Level Up, which publishes candid career advice and has a growing community of ambitious professionals to connect with. Ethan also offers a range of Leadership Development Courses via live online classes and on-demand courses. In this episode, we discuss:

    • The Magic Loop framework: a five-step process to grow your career

    • A handful of reasons why people get stuck in their career growth

    • Advice on how to break out of a career plateau

    • How to cultivate inventiveness in your work

    • How to stand out in interviews

    • A personal story of failing Jeff Bezos and lessons learned

    • Contrarian opinions on the return-to-office movement and doing business on a handshake

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    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/taking-control-of-your-career-ethan-evans-amazon/

    Where to find Ethan Evans:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/

    • Substack: https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Ethan’s background

    (04:25) The Magic Loop

    (08:31) The goal of the Magic Loop

    (10:59) Clarifications on the framework

    (12:46) Success stories

    (17:22) The importance and effectiveness of the Magic Loop

    (19:01) A quick summary of the steps in the Magic Loop

    (21:46) What if you’re not pursuing a promotion?

    (23:09) How to break out of a career plateau

    (28:52) How to become systematically inventive

    (36:04) Interview advice and how to stand out

    (40:43) A story of failing Jeff Bezos

    (50:31) Lessons learned from that failure

    (57:30) What Ethan would have done differently

    (01:00:35) Amazon’s leadership principles

    (01:08:52) Contrarian corner: Returning to the office vs. staying remote

    (01:10:39) Contrarian corner: Doing business on a handshake

    (01:11:52) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • The Magic Loop: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-magic-loop

    • SDE levels: https://www.masaischool.com/blog/understanding-sde-levels-sde-1-vs-sde-2-vs-sde-3-differences/

    • What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful: https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304

    • Thomas Edison’s quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/thomas_a_edison_109928

    • Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY

    • Unpacking Amazon’s unique ways of working | Bill Carr (author of Working Backwards): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/unpacking-amazons-unique-ways-of-working-bill-carr-author-of-working-backwards/

    • Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-Insights-Stories-Secrets/dp/1250267595

    • Jeff Wilke on X: https://twitter.com/jeffawilke

    • Andy Jassy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-jassy-8b1615/

    • Werner Vogels on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wernervogels/

    • Amazon’s Silk browser explained: https://www.androidpolice.com/amazon-silk-browser-explainer/

    • Chickens and pigs: https://www.scrum.org/resources/chickens-and-pigs

    • 58% of tech employees experience imposter syndrome. Here’s how to overcome it: https://medium.com/wearefutureworks/58-of-tech-employees-experience-imposter-syndrome-heres-how-to-overcome-it-78172d8a2258

    • Jeff Bezos to exec after product totally flopped: ‘You can’t, for one minute, feel bad’: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/22/jeff-bezos-why-you-cant-feel-bad-about-failure.html

    • Amazon’s leadership principles: https://www.amazon.jobs/content/en/our-workplace/leadership-principles

    • Sam Altman on X: https://twitter.com/sama

    • Decisive: How to Make Better Choices in Life and Work: https://www.amazon.com/Decisive-Make-Better-Choices-Life/dp/0307956393

    • Leadership and Self-Deception: Getting Out of the Box: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Self-Deception-Getting-Out-Box/dp/1523097809

    • The Almanack of Naval Ravikant: A Guide to Wealth and Happiness: https://www.amazon.com/Almanack-Naval-Ravikant-Wealth-Happiness/dp/1544514212/

    • Angel list: https://venture.angellist.com/naval/syndicate

    • Naval Ravikant on X: https://twitter.com/naval

    • 1923 on Paramount+: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/1923/

    • Yellowstone on Paramount+: https://www.paramountnetwork.com/shows/yellowstone

    • Chuckit! dog toys: https://www.chuckit-toys.co.uk/

    • Luke 12:48: https://law.utk.edu/2016/05/10/to-whom-much-is-given-much-will-be-required

    • The Challenger space shuttle disaster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_disaster

    • Ethan’s popular course on Maven: https://maven.com/ethan-evans/break-through-to-executive

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Sam Schillace is deputy CTO and corporate vice president at Microsoft. Prior to working at Microsoft, Sam started a company called Writely, which was acquired by Google and became the foundation of what today is Google Docs. While at Google, Sam helped lead many of Google’s consumer products, including Gmail, Blogger, PageCreator, Picasa, Reader, Groups, and more recently Maps and Google Automotive Services. Sam was also a principal investor at Google Ventures, has founded six startups, and was the SVP of engineering at Box through their IPO. In this episode, we discuss:

    • The journey of building Google Docs

    • The importance of taking risks, embracing failure, and finding joy in your work

    • The importance of asking “what if” questions vs. “why not”

    • Why convenience always wins

    • How, and why, Sam stays optimistic

    • Inside Microsoft’s culture

    • Why you should solve problems without asking for permission

    • Early-career advice

    • Why “pixels are free” and “bots are docs”

    Brought to you by Teal—Your personal career growth platform | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security | Ahrefs—Improve your website’s SEO for free

    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-be-more-innovative-sam-schillace-microsoft-deputy-cto-creator-of-google-docs/

    Where to find Sam Schillace:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schillace/

    • Newsletter: https://sundaylettersfromsam.substack.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Sam’s background

    (03:45) The first Google Docs file

    (06:45) Disruptive innovation

    (10:11) First-principles thinking

    (11:00) Recognizing disruptive ideas

    (13:17) Examples of first-principles thinking

    (15:46) The power of optimism

    (19:47) Sam’s motto: Get to the edge of something and f**k around

    (21:53) User value and laziness

    (24:31) People are lazy (and what to do about it)

    (28:36) Building Google Docs

    (31:06) The evolution of Google Docs

    (37:15) Finding product-market fit

    (39:52) The future of documents

    (44:57) The value of playing with technology

    (47:58) Taking risks and embracing failure

    (49:21) Thinking in the future

    (53:48) Finding joy in your work

    (01:01:20) Just do the best you can

    (01:02:34) The transformational power of AI

    (01:09:27) Advice for approaching AI

    (01:13:07) The culture at Microsoft

    (01:16:51) Closing thoughts

    (01:17:32) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Google Docs began as a hacked-together experiment, says creator: https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/3/4484000/sam-schillace-interview-google-docs-creator-box

    • Edna Mode: https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Edna_Mode

    • Sergey Brin’s profile on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/profile/sergey-brin/

    • People Who Were No Smarter Than You: https://medium.com/thrive-global/people-who-were-no-smarter-than-you-4e1c88c3fee6

    • Nat Torkington (O’Reilly Media): https://www.oreilly.com/people/nathan-torkington/

    • How Tesla Has Shaken (Not Stirred) Established Carmakers—and Why It Really Matters: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferdungs/2021/04/23/how-tesla-has-shaken-not-stirred-established-carmakersand-why-it-really-matters/

    • First Principles: Elon Musk on the Power of Thinking for Yourself: https://jamesclear.com/first-principles

    • Ashton Tate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashton-Tate

    • Learning by Doing: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/learning-doing-sam-schillace

    • Kevin Scott on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkevinscott/

    • How do we make sense of all of this?: https://sundaylettersfromsam.substack.com/p/how-do-we-make-sense-of-all-of-this

    • Steve Newman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevescalyr/

    • Eric Schmidt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-schmidt-02158951/

    • Michael Arrington on X: https://twitter.com/arrington

    • TechCrunch: https://techcrunch.com/

    • “Hello, Computer” scene from Star Trek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hShY6xZWVGE

    • Writely—Process Words with your Browser: https://techcrunch.com/2005/08/31/writely-process-words-with-your-browser/

    • Satya Nadella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/

    • Poor Charlie’s Almanack: The Essential Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger: https://press.stripe.com/poor-charlies-almanack

    • Calvinism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism

    • This Quote from Seth Godin Could Change How You Think About Pursuing Your Passion: https://friedchickenandsushi.com/blog/2021/7/5/this-quote-from-seth-godin-could-change-how-you-think-about-pursuing-your-passion

    • AI isn’t a feature of your product: https://sundaylettersfromsam.substack.com/p/ai-isnt-a-feature-of-your-product

    • Introducing Gemini: our largest and most capable AI model: https://blog.google/technology/ai/google-gemini-ai/

    • Invisible Cities: https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Cities-Italo-Calvino/dp/0156453800

    • The Wasp Factory: https://www.amazon.com/WASP-FACTORY-NOVEL-Iain-Banks/dp/0684853159

    • Where Good Ideas Come From: The Natural History of Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Where-Good-Ideas-Come-Innovation/dp/1594485380/

    • Slow Horses on Apple TV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/slow-horses/umc.cmc.2szz3fdt71tl1ulnbp8utgq5o

    • Monarch: Legacy of Monsters on Apple TV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/monarch-legacy-of-monsters/umc.cmc.62l8x0ixrhyq3yaqa5y8yo7ew?mttn3pid

    • Scavengers Reign on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/scavengers-reign/50c8ce6d-088c-42d9-9147-d1b19b1289d4

    • 2023 Mustang Mach-E: https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/

    • Boccalone Salumeria (now closed) on X: https://twitter.com/boccalone

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Will Larson is Chief Technology Officer at Carta. Prior to joining Carta, he was the CTO at Calm and held engineering leadership roles at Stripe, Uber, and Digg. He is the author of two foundational engineering career books, An Elegant Puzzle and Staff Engineer, and The Engineering Executive’s Primer, which will be released in February. In our conversation, we discuss:

    • Systems thinking: what it is and how to apply it

    • Advice for product managers on fostering productive relationships with engineering managers

    • Why companies should treat engineers like adults

    • How to best measure developer productivity

    • Writing and its impact on his career

    • How to balance writing with a demanding job

    • How to develop your company values

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    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-engineering-mindset-will-larson-carta-stripe-uber-calm-digg/

    Where to find Will Larson:

    • X: https://twitter.com/Lethain

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-larson-a44b543/

    • Website: https://lethain.com/

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Will’s background

    (04:12) Changes in the field of engineering

    (06:27) We need to stop treating engineers like children

    (08:32) Systems thinking

    (13:23) Implementing systems thinking in hiring

    (16:32) Engineering strategy

    (20:21) Examples of engineering strategies

    (25:08) How to get good at strategy

    (26:48) The importance of writing about things that excite you

    (32:40) The biggest risk to content creation is quitting too soon

    (35:24) How to make time for writing

    (37:41) Tips for aspiring writers

    (41:18) Building productive relationships between product managers and engineers

    (43:45) Giving the same performance rating to EMs and PMs

    (48:24) Measuring engineering productivity

    (55:53) Defining company values

    (01:02:10) Failure corner: the Digg rewrite

    (01:11:05) Will’s upcoming book, The Engineering Executive’s Primer

    (01:12:04) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • The end of the “free money” era: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/11/techscape-zirp-tech-boom

    • Work on what matters: https://lethain.com/work-on-what-matters/

    • Sheryl Sandberg to Harvard Biz Grads: “Find a Rocket Ship”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/05/24/sheryl-sandberg-to-harvard-biz-grads-find-a-rocket-ship/?sh=708c9a93b37a

    • What Is Systems Thinking?: https://www.snhu.edu/about-us/newsroom/business/what-is-systems-thinking

    • Introduction to systems thinking: https://lethain.com/systems-thinking/

    • Thinking in Systems: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557

    • Silent Spring: https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Spring-Rachel-Carson/dp/0618249060

    • Writing an engineering strategy: https://lethain.com/eng-strategies/

    • Carta: https://carta.com/

    • Eric Vogl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericvogl/

    • Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The difference and why it matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-difference-matters/dp/1781256179

    • The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/

    • How Big Things Get Done: The Surprising Factors That Determine the Fate of Every Project, from Home Renovations to Space Exploration and Everything in Between: https://www.amazon.com/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239512/

    • Technology Strategy Patterns: Architecture as Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/Technology-Strategy-Patterns-Architecture/dp/1492040878/

    • The Value Flywheel Effect: Power the Future and Accelerate Your Organization to the Modern Cloud: https://www.amazon.com/Value-Flywheel-Effect-Accelerate-Organization/dp/1950508579

    • The Phoenix Project: A Novel about IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win: https://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Project-DevOps-Helping-Business/dp/1942788290

    • The Engineering Executive’s Primer: Impactful Technical Leadership: https://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Executives-Primer-Impactful-Leadership/dp/1098149483

    • An Elegant Puzzle: Systems of Engineering Management: https://press.stripe.com/an-elegant-puzzle

    • Staff Engineer: Leadership beyond the management track: https://www.amazon.com/Staff-Engineer-Leadership-beyond-management-ebook/dp/B08RMSHYGG

    • Gergely Orosz’s newsletter: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/author/gergely/

    • Leaving big tech to build the #1 technology newsletter | Gergely Orosz (The Pragmatic Engineer): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/leaving-big-tech-to-build-the-1-technology-newsletter-gergely-orosz-the-pragmatic-engineer/

    • The art of product management | Shreyas Doshi (Stripe, Twitter, Google, Yahoo): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-art-of-product-management-shreyas-doshi-stripe-twitter-google-yahoo/

    • Henry Ward on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heward/

    • Vrushali Paunikar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vrushali-paunikar/

    • Accelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps: Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations: https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339

    • How to measure and improve developer productivity | Nicole Forsgren (Microsoft Research, GitHub, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-measure-and-improve-developer-productivity-nicole-forsgren-microsoft-research-github-goo/

    • DORA: https://dora.dev/

    • Setting engineering org values: https://lethain.com/setting-engineering-org-values/

    • Digg: https://digg.com/

    • Kevin Rose on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinrose/

    • Digg’s v4 launch: an optimism born of necessity: https://lethain.com/digg-v4/

    • Dash Gopinath on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dashgopinath/

    • Rich Schumacher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richschumacher/

    • The ALL NEW Don’t Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate: https://www.amazon.com/ALL-NEW-Dont-Think-Elephant-ebook/dp/B00NP9LHFA

    • Top Chef on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/watch-online/tv/top-chef/5172289448907967112

    • Hard to work with: https://lethain.com/hard-to-work-with/

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
  • Judd Antin has spent 15 years leading research and design teams at companies like Yahoo, Meta, and Airbnb. His direct reports have gone on to lead user research at Figma, Notion, Slack, Robinhood, Duolingo, AllTrails, and more. In our conversation, we unpack the transformation that the user-research field is experiencing. Specifically:

    • Where user research went wrong over the past decade

    • The three types of research—macro, middle-range, and micro—and the purpose of each

    • How to effectively integrate researchers into the product development process

    • The “user-centered performance” phenomenon and why it’s a waste of time

    • Common tropes about PMs, from researchers

    • The ideal ratio of researchers in a company

    • Why Judd says NPS is useless, and what to use instead

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    Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ux-research-reckoning-is-here-judd-antin-airbnb-meta/

    Where to find Judd Antin:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juddantin/

    • Website: https://juddantin.com/

    • Blog: https://medium.com/onebigthought

    Where to find Lenny:

    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:

    (00:00) Judd’s background

    (04:16) Critiques and responses to Judd’s post “The UX Research Reckoning Is Here”

    (07:33) The state of user research

    (08:53) Macro, middle-range, and micro research

    (14:05) What teams get wrong when it comes to research

    (15:46) The importance of integrating research from the beginning

    (17:30) Traits of great researchers

    (19:53) Advice for evaluating user researchers

    (21:10) Balancing business and product focus

    (23:55) User-centered performance

    (26:42) The role of intuition in product development

    (30:15) Checking your gut instincts

    (32:54) Common tropes about PMs, from researchers

    (41:02) A/B testing vs. user research

    (43:15) Hindsight bias and narrative fallacy

    (44:55) Making recommendations based on research

    (47:26) Advice for teams on how to leverage researchers

    (51:18) How product managers can be better partners to user researchers

    (56:53) The ideal ratio of researchers in a company

    (59:43) Empowering user researchers to drive impact

    (01:03:39) The limitations of NPS as a metric

    (01:06:48) The risks of dogfooding

    (01:08:51) Lightning round

    Referenced:

    • Matt Gallivan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgallivan/

    • Janna Bray on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janna-bray-a4046a25/

    • Celeste Ridlen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/celesteridlen/

    • Rebecca Gray on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccagray2/

    • Hannah Pileggi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-pileggi-43169314/

    • Louise Beryl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louise-beryl-13225833/

    • The UX Research Reckoning Is Here: https://medium.com/onebigthought/the-ux-research-reckoning-is-here-c63710ea4084

    • The end of the “free money” era: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/11/techscape-zirp-tech-boom

    • Cognitive biases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

    • IDEO design thinking: https://designthinking.ideo.com/

    • Everything Is Obvious: How Common Sense Fails Us: https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Obvious-Common-Sense-Fails/dp/0307951790

    • Patrick Collison’s tweet: https://twitter.com/patrickc/status/1443215022029619200?lang=en

    • Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/

    • Brian Chesky on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/brian-cheskys-new-playbook/

    • NPS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_promoter_score

    • What is CSAT and how do you measure it?: https://www.qualtrics.com/experience-management/customer/what-is-csat/

    • Michael Murakami on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhmurakami/

    • Bad Leadership: What It Is, How It Happens, Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Leadership-Happens-Matters-Common/dp/1591391660

    • Demon Copperhead: https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Copperhead-Novel-Barbara-Kingsolver/dp/0063251922

    • All Systems Red: The Murderbot Diaries: https://www.amazon.com/All-Systems-Red-Murderbot-Diaries/dp/0765397536

    • The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

    • Belay glasses: https://www.amazon.com/Belay-Glasses-Climbing-Comfortable-Sturdy/dp/B08GSBYDKQ/

    • Epictetus: Control What You Can—Especially Yourself: https://www.shortform.com/blog/epictetus-control/

    • The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change: https://www.amazon.com/Habits-Highly-Effective-People-Powerful/dp/0743269519

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.



    Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe