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Today’s top episode goes to the heart of an issue that a lot of people raise with me.
They say ‘where do you start when changing a culture’.
To some extent it’s what the episode about the hospital trust in Barking was about, going in and changing the culture of a huge organisation.
I saw one of today’s guests Darren Ashby speak at an event - talking through the specifics of how his company Business Four Zero tried to change the culture of Tesco. Business Four Zero are one of a group of organisations who work with leaders to change company culture. I know there’s a few of these firms. I attended a dazzling event by one firm called Scarlett Abbot in this field about a month ago.
Darren is joined by Atif Sheikh as they talk through the specifics of what they did with firms like Electronic Arts, Aviva and Tesco. They’ve turned some of their work into a book which you can buy here.
Some of the things that stood out for me:
What’s the number one thing you look for in a high performing culture? How internal are they? How much time are they spending on themselves vs the outside world?Only 28% of workers say they are connected to purposeCulture is what are you committed to as group - emotional commitment of what you want to createValues - before you define your values know that there are 6 core values shared amongst everyone (sometimes called the 6 Pillars of Character - Trust, respect, responsibility, fairness, caring and citizenship). These should not be your differentiator. These are universal basic expectations. You need to define something differentiatingLeaders' role is to bring energy: Satya Nadella told Microsoft’s execs: ‘find the rose petals in the field of sh*t’So how do you elevate a culture? They introduce 2 or 3 critical behaviours that elevate a culture Might be ‘be kinder’ And they build a process of how you might enact those behavioursFor example Intercontinental Hotel Group
Had switched from being a hotel owner to a franchise businessCEO needed to remove silosWhat did they need? Too many people in the business didn’t understand how they made money - it made spending decisions hard. So they focussed on ‘think return’Additionally it had become complacent, so they decided to ‘move fast’Finally they agreed to ‘talk straight’ with each otherBecome a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/eatsleepworkrepeat.
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Isabel Berwick is a writer and podcaster who focusses on the evolving state of modern work. I’ve celebrated her podcast Working It many times here
(here’s her specials on the 4-day week for example, or her special on meeting-free days was essential listening). I love its ability to react rapidly to the biggest news stories of the moment and to drop a snackable episode midweek.
I talked to her about her opinions on modern work, going deep on the rapidly changing world of employment and where we’re going next.
Isabel has a brand new book out, The Future Proof Career, which she says is for everyone who doesn’t read books about work but wants to be better at navigating it.
Recent episodes you might have missed
The importance of trust at work - and why it's on the declineCharles Duhig on how to be a supercommunicator in your job (and your home life)Can improvements to culture fix a broken NHS trust?The Big Ange effect at Tottenham HotspurFrances Frei on the importance of training managersBecome a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/eatsleepworkrepeat.
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Saknas det avsnitt?
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How should most of us think about the differences between Employee Experience and Employee Engagement.
I first spoke to Emma Bridger, who is the author of a well respected book on this topic and the founder of the EX Space, a learning community focussed on raising the bar in the Employee Experience field.
Then I picked the brains of Melanie Wheeler who leads People Communications at Sutherland, a firm widely recommended to me as outstanding in Employee Experience.
Get in touch
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Charles Duhigg’s bestseller The Power of Habit was the definitive guide to building and sustaining successful habits.
His new book, Supercommunicators, grapples with the knotty topic of creating successful interactions with others.
It’s a thorough and dazzling read that has many applications for the way we work (and how we live our lives).
We talked about:
the single biggest thing that builds psychological safetywhy moving conversation out of small talk into deep discussion proves more satisfying than we expecthow teams should use 'who are we' conversationshow we should think about three different types of conversation (are they looking to be helped, hugged or heard?Read an extract of Charles' book here
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Many of us have worked in environments that provided bonuses or rewards for success. Maybe they took the form of team rewards or individual incentives, or end of year profit-share schemes. But do these rewards achieve what they are designed to?
Professor Uri Gneezy is the world's foremost expert on the science of incentives - and he comes with a huge warning about what such schemes actually achieve.
Eat Sleep Work Repeat is today hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook.
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This week's Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook.
Roll up roll up as this week we talk the major trends in work and workplace culture and the big stories of the last month.
Including:
Wellness programs don’t work - in TikTok form, or in Matt’s post on LinkedIn Research from Oxford University looking at the (in)effectiveness of workplace wellbeing interventions at an individual levelChronoworking GymclassgateEllen on Gen Z workersFewer and fewer of us want to go out in the evenings or weekendsThe dystopian prospect of AI interviewsBecome a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/eatsleepworkrepeat.
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I was flattered to be invited to visit the NHS trust of Barking, Havering and Redbridge last year. I spent an afternoon meeting the team and seeing the place in action.
It was an inspiring question that CEO Matthew Trainer was asking: 'can we improve the results by making it a better culture?'
What does that look like? And how is going for them?
Matthew Trainer's CEO note at the end of 2023
Video: Inside the Trust
Fill in the form: Consider my firm for a future podcast
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We often overlook the fact that trust is the basis for all good culture. I called out some of the remarkable data on this in the Work In 2024 deck.
In Slack’s August 2023 survey of over 10,000 global office workers, trust was the top determinant of employees’ productivity scores. Employees who felt trusted were 2X as productive as those who didn’t. They were 30% more likely to put in extra effort at their jobs. If we don’t feel trusted we’re twice as likely to say we’re looking for
a new job.
But what role does trust play in the modern company? And how can we build it?
Mark McGinn is a senior leader at the communications agency Edelman, he talks to me about their research into trust and how we should seek to build it.
Has our organisation replaced government? Increasingly our company is the biggest thing that we believe we can have an impact on.
Mark explains that Trust in our organisation is based on four things:
Organisational abilityDependabilityIntegrityPurposeYou'll strongly enjoy downloading Edelman's Trust Barometer and also Edelman's special Trust at Work report.
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The role of managers are pivotal in our working lives but most managers aren't trained or prepared for the responsibilities that they are given.
When we look at the research from Gallup about burnout and why people hate their jobs managers are regarded as having the biggest responsibility. Half of people who say they don't rate their manager say they are looking for jobs. So what can we do to make our relationship with our managers better? I chatted to Anthony Painter from CMI.
Download the Work in 2024 deck
Chartered Management Institute research on the Accidental Manager
82% of workers entering management positions have not had any formal management and leadership trainingonly a quarter of workers (27%) describe their manager as ‘highly effective’of those workers who do not rate their manager, half (50%) plan to leave their company in the next yearFollow Anthony on LinkedIn
Follow Anthony on Twitter
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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook. Sign up to the newsletter
We talk through the hottest topics in work:
New research says that bosses think going part-time signals the end of career ambitionRadio 5 Live's Nihal Arthanayake says he feels alienated as the only brown face in a sea of white at his workplaceBill Gates advocates for the three-day week but doesn't detail who he thinks is going to pay for itBecome a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/eatsleepworkrepeat.
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Professor Frances Frei is the biggest brain in the field of workplace culture and I was delighted to get another opportunity to talk to her.
She explains the one thing that firms should do to fix their cultures (spoiler: train their managers), why she thinks inclusion is a more important element of culture than just diversity.
The previous episode with Frances Frei
Frances and Anne’s podcast Fixable
Frances’ and Anne Morriss’ new book Move Fast and Fix Things
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Quotes from the book that I cited:
“One way to build cynicism quickly in an organisation, something we see all the time, by the way - is to ask people for their input and then do very little with the information they give you (and take a long time to even do that)’
Robert McDonald, former CEO of P&G “Organisations are perfectly designed to get the results they get… if you don’t like the results you need to change the design”.
We're often asked for a summary of how to build a workplace where everyone feels welcome. Our short answer is to recruit great people you don't already know, give them interesting work to do, and invest in them as if your company's future depends on it. If they deserve a promotion, give it to them in a timely man-ner. Don't make them wait. Don't make them go to a competitor to get the role, title, and decision rights they already earned on your watch. And in the name of all that is right and just in the world, pay them fairly and equitably for the work they do.”
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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook. Sign up to the newsletter
Is toxic culture driving your team away?
If you’re someone whose job it is think about culture, or maybe you’re a boss who has tried to communicate values to your team then today’s episode is an essential listen.
Donald Sull and Charlie Sull are a father and son research team who have discovered extraordinary insights into values and what they look like in the real world.
Here are some articles to get you going to understand the world of the Sulls:
Toxic Culture Is Driving the Great Resignation
The Toxic Culture Gap Shows Companies Are Failing Women
Why leaders need to worry about toxic culture?
Charlie and Donald have a business that focusses on this called Culture X.
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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook. Sign up to the newsletter
This week we go deep on the latest news about work.
ITV tell staff to declare ‘friendships’Moderation staff at Facebook are suing over PTSDBBC staff given help for stress levels'We Had To Remove This Post' - brilliant novella by Hanna BervoetsOobah Butler’s Amazon show on Channel 4Reddit anti workReddit r/LateStageCapitalismMatt’s final comment about having orgasms to boost productivityBig Train sketch: 'no wanking in the office please'Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/eatsleepworkrepeat.
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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook. Sign up to the newsletter
This week we go deep on the latest news about work.
We discuss:
Two thirds of bosses expect a return to the office by 2036KPMG CEO surveyDavid Foster Wallace - This is Water commencement speechShonda Rhimes “Whenever you see me somewhere succeeding in one area of my life, that almost certainly means I am failing in another area of my life”80% of remote workers claim to have two jobsEmail sign-offs are changingCoffee badging as a protest against being in the officeSnail girl jobs (and the toxicity of ‘trends’ about women working less)The gendered nature of WFH assessment (participants in research were less likely to choose to hire working mothers than childless women)Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/eatsleepworkrepeat.
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What Ange Postecoglou changed at Spurs in his first 100 days: ‘The mood has been transformed’
Charlie writes about the oratory of Ange Postecoglou
Last week I read something wonderful about the culture of Tottenham Hotspur, I contacted the writer and it felt like it was worth putting out quickly. We’ve got a couple of podcast recorded with Matt and Ellen so we’ll be back for a fuller episode next week.
Ange Postecoglou has been the manager of Spurs, Tottenham Hotspur, for around a hundred days. In that time he’s started something of a transformation. And I can tell that because the Spurs fans I know how have started smiling. Spurs have started the season well, currently sitting 2nd in the Premier League. But more than that the players seem to be happy and are playing exciting football.
There was a brilliant article by Charlie Ecceshare from The Athletic looking into the culture of the club under Ange, the article talked about how the mood of the club has been transformed.
For anyone interested in the impact that cultural change can create it was a fascinating read, full of specifics and clear actions.
Aren’t all of us looking to change the mood of our jobs? I got in touch with Charlie and we talked about Postecoglou, culture and the impact that culture has on results.
In the show note you’ll find links to Charlie’s articles, YouTube clips of some team talks we discuss and some other things that you might find of interest, like an interview with Gary Lineker.
Fabulous interview with Gary Lineker
Big Ange motivational speech
Thank you to Charlie, all of the articles mentioned are in the show notes. What a fabulous discussion. I’m grateful for him taking the time to chat to me. If you’re interested in workplace culture you can sign up to the newsletter in the show notes - and also check out previous episodes on Liverpool FC, Barcelona and the All Blacks.
Further listening:
Inside Klopp's early days at LiverpoolA close look at Barcelona's cultureThe culture of the All BlacksReinventing the culture of the England team with Gareth SouthgateBecome a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/eatsleepworkrepeat.
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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook. Ellen is away this week - we were working hard to squeeze an elite guest in.
Amy Edmondson is the most renowned organisational psychologist in the world. In other words she's looked to more than anyone else for the answers of how to fix work.
In this in depth discussion she talks us through what she understands by psychological safety, how any of us can create it and what she believes the best team structure is to achieve it.
We're also joined by Octavius Black, founder of Mind Gym, who provide behavioural science based interventions for lots of the biggest companies in the world.
Amy's new book is The Right Kind of Wrong
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Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook.
Sign up for the Make Work Better newsletter
Catherine Price is a science and health writer who has written a couple of sensationally timely books.
Firstly How to Break Up With Your Phone
Secondly, and today’s discussion focusses on this, The Power of Fun
I was put on to it by Elle Hunt’s Power of Fun article in The Guardian
Memorise it: fun is playful connected flow
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Sign up for the Make Work Better newsletter
Eat Sleep Work Repeat is hosted by Bruce Daisley, Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook.
Ellen wrote about her learnings about being a manager
Despite government threats of legal action Cambridgeshire council are continuing their evidence-led trial of the 4-day week. “Nine in ten councils are struggling with job recruitment and retention and a four-day working week could be the answer”
Ellen mentions this article on Stylist about boundaries (registration required)
Half of the employees of Grindr were fired after the firm issued a RTO order. This included 100% of the firm’s trans employees. As Matt points out in the show trans employees are subject to the legislative whims of different states in the US and understandably try to locate in safe places.
We talk about the World Values Survey report "What the world thinks about work"
People in the UK are least likely to say work is important in their life. It's still seems pretty high, 73% of the UK public say work is very or rather important in their life - but significantly lower than other countries. Other western nations such as Italy, Spain, Sweden, France and Norway all rank much higher than the UK on this measure, with more than nine in 10 saying work is important in their life.Headline warning: This is not a new development. the share of the British public who say work is important in their life has hardly changed in three decades But there are big generational differences in views on whether work should always come first. One of the most interesting charts has been millennial's views crashing: it went from a hustle culture high of 41% in 2009 to 14% in 2022. That is a huge shift in attitudeLibby Sander is an internationally renowned expert on work and the workplace, the MBA Director and Assistant Professor of Organisational Behaviour at Bond University. She is a leading thinker on understanding the future of work, and how we can reimagine it to live more meaningful and creative lives.
Read Libby on RTO
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I’m joined again by new cohosts Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook.
Buy Belonging
Owen Eastwood is the most in-demand team performance coach in the world
He's earned that reputation by delivering break-through results with a diverse range of teams from Gareth Southgate’s England team and the England women’s team, to the senior leadership team of NATO. His former clients represent an elite range of teams who have gone on to achieve incredible victories. We wanted to understand how he did it.
What does he say? What does he ask?
Eastwood’s approach is consistent. By zooming out and pointing our fleeting contribution to legacy he urges teams to think about their ‘Us’ story. For me this suggests that what he’s actually doing is emphasising a powerful shared identity. In my mind I would see this as activating a visceral bond of community, he chooses to label it as ‘belonging’. That distinction ends up feeling semantic when presented with what his approach achieves.
This week on the podcast I’m joined by new co-hosts Ellen Scott and Matthew Cook as we talk to Owen and debate purpose, identity and belonging.
It’s a truly brilliant listen.
Follow Owen on LinkedIn
Joe Lycett’s remarkable special - the last 20 minutes of this are astonishing viewing
Ellen on thinking about leaving work on time
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A few months ago I put out a call asking for other voices to get involved in the podcast and I’m delighted today to add Ellen C Scott and Matthew Cook to Eat Sleep Work Repeat.
You may have read Ellen’s brilliant writing in The Stylist where she is the Deputy Digital Editor and previously in Metro. She writes and edits pieces on work, mental health, relationships, and more. Here’s her own Substack on work. She is also working on fiction and is represented by The Soho Agency.
Matt/Matthew is the founder of theSHIFT, an award-winning learning consultancy that specialises in cultural change inside organisations. He’s basically a people enthusiast who has turned it into his job.
I’ll be honest I love talking about work but I was worried that my own perspective might be a bit limiting. First and foremost I ended up as a boss and whether you intend it to or not that skews your perspective. Ellen and Matthew are here to help give a broader view. We loved recording the first episode and hopefully great things are to come.
You’ll find more on work at the ESWR website and the Make Work Better newsletter.
Today’s links:
Ellen’s post about AI
The rise of Millennial Momagers
McKinsey claims to have cracked the formula for hybrid working
‘Sorry but productivity is lower at home’ - the article and the discussion of it is covered here
Hybrid workers are spending fully half of their work time in meetings
Maker vs Manager Schedule
The benefit of ‘collective effervescence’ (there’s loads about this in Fortitude, p168)
Erin Meyer on the cultural differences of giving feedback
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- Visa fler
